Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EARLY BIRD OR FLEEING FELON? GLAM PHD BABYSITTER CHARGED IN INFANTS MURDER, LEAVING 5 AM

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EARLY BIRD OR FLEEING FELON? GLAM PHD BABYSITTER CHARGED IN INFANTS MURDER, LEAVING 5 AM · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Early bird or fleeing selling the GLAPIHD babysitter charged in
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  Speaker 2: an infants murder, caught leaving her airbnb around five a m.
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  Speaker 2: Shrouded in darkness. Why I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime stories.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 3: Well, the Pittsburgh family with newborn twin babies asks a
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  Speaker 3: longtime friend to babysit matters take a turn for the worse.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly an understatement.
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  Speaker 2: One of the infants is dead, the other injured in
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  Speaker 2: the growing area with scratches and swelling. So, knowing that
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  Speaker 2: your good friend's children are in danger, why would you
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  Speaker 2: try to bail out in the dark of the wee
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  Speaker 2: hours of the morning.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Take a listen.
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  Speaker 4: Arriving back at her airbnb at twelve fifty three am,
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  Speaker 4: Nicole Ersey is seen on security video less than five
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  Speaker 4: hours later, as she appears to be making a hasty exit,
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  Speaker 4: even though she was booked for two more nights at
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  Speaker 4: the apartment, Bersey appears to be leaving. Bersy is seen
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  Speaker 4: on security video leaving the building at five forty five am.
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  Speaker 4: She reaches for her phone and makes a phone call
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  Speaker 4: and is standing waiting on the sidewalk. At five forty
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  Speaker 4: seven am, Leon Katz is pronounced dead. At five point
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  Speaker 4: fifty am, police arrive at the Airbnb and two officers
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  Speaker 4: approach Fersy on the sidewalk and quickly take her to
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  Speaker 4: the waiting patrol car and transport her to the police headquarters,
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  Speaker 4: where she agrees to be questioned without an attorney present.
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  Speaker 2: Joining me in allstar panwel makes sense of what we
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  Speaker 2: are hearing and what we are learning.
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  Speaker 1: We know that the.
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  Speaker 2: So called glam glamorous PhDc to a twenty nine who
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  Speaker 2: is studying to get her PhD in a derivative of psychology.
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  Speaker 2: We know that she also led spin classes at at
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  Speaker 2: least one, if not more, cycle centers.
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  Speaker 1: What more do we know?
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  Speaker 2: We know her dad is a renowned physician practicing at
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  Speaker 2: Mount Sinai in New York City. We know that she
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  Speaker 2: has many faces, the glad PhD student, the best friend
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  Speaker 2: that travels to visit two infant boys.
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  Speaker 1: But why in the world.
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  Speaker 2: If this is one of your best friends would she
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  Speaker 2: try to steal away.
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  Speaker 1: In the dark of the wee morning hours.
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  Speaker 2: Let's analyze that timeline again, straight out to a panel
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  Speaker 2: of experts.
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  Speaker 1: First, I'm going to go.
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  Speaker 2: To Alexisterschuk crimeonline dot com investigative reporter joining us out
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  Speaker 2: of La Alexis, thank you for.
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  Speaker 1: Being with us.
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  Speaker 2: I want to analyze the timeline versy is spotted.
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  Speaker 1: Let me back it up.
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  Speaker 2: Back to her Airbnb a few blocks away from the
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  Speaker 2: victim's home, the mom, the dad, the two twin infants.
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  Speaker 2: That is around one am, just before one a m.
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  Speaker 2: Then less than five hours later, in the dark of
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  Speaker 2: the wee morning hours, she's beating a hasty retreat five
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  Speaker 2: forty five a m. At five forty seven a m.
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  Speaker 2: Infant child twin boy, Leon is pronounced dead.
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  Speaker 1: So let me understand this.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me if I got the timeline correct, Alexis. So
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  Speaker 2: she leaves her one of her best friends, Leon's mom,
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  Speaker 2: and the dad, the father of the twins at the hospital.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely she leaves them there with Leon with horrific head
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  Speaker 2: injuries and the other baby, Ari had genital swelling and scratches.
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  Speaker 1: So instead of going back to.
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  Speaker 2: The hospital to check on the babies, she tries to leave.
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  Speaker 1: She did.
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  Speaker 5: Here's the thing it actually she is the one that
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  Speaker 5: called nine to one one about the baby, about Leon
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  Speaker 5: at eleven fifteen pm. So then the next time you
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  Speaker 5: see her is at shortly before one am, so less
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  Speaker 5: than two hours she is already back in her airbnb.
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  Speaker 5: She's not at the hotel with her friends. She has
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  Speaker 5: been friends with the mom for I think almost ten years,
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  Speaker 5: very good friends. They've traveled together. She was here babysitting
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  Speaker 5: the children. She was trusted enough by the parents to
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  Speaker 5: babysit the baby, and so she's back at the airbnb.
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  Speaker 5: A few hours later, she goes outside. She hesitates outside
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  Speaker 5: the front door, and she takes for about three minutes.
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  Speaker 5: She then takes a phone call. At the time that
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  Speaker 5: she's on the phone, the baby is reported dead three
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  Speaker 5: minutes later. Just three minutes later, least surround her and
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  Speaker 5: take her into custody. So they must have been absolutely
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  Speaker 5: waiting outside, waiting to hear, watching her worry that she
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  Speaker 5: was going to flee, knowing that this wasn't her regular
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  Speaker 5: home was in airbnbb. She lives in San Diego, California,
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  Speaker 5: so they were waiting for her for this exact reason.
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  Speaker 2: I'm very very curious about the behavior and joining me
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  Speaker 2: is an esteem forensic psychologist specializing in capital mitigation and
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  Speaker 2: victim advocacy at panthermitigation dot com. Author of Criminal Behavior
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  Speaker 2: and author of Where Law and Psychology Intersect, Doctor Sherry
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  Speaker 2: Schwartz is with us. Doctor Sherry, I've got a problem
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  Speaker 2: with this. She is the one that calls nine to
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  Speaker 2: one one just a few hours before baby Leon is
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  Speaker 2: raced to the hospital. Now this is after baby Ari.
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  Speaker 2: She is the one that notices that baby Ari's penis
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  Speaker 2: is swown and read and there are multiple scratches in
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  Speaker 2: his growing area. She says, look at this, and the
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  Speaker 2: parents rush to the hospital with baby Ari. They're in
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  Speaker 2: the hospital with baby Ari and they get a call.
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  Speaker 2: Leon is unresponsive and the dad says.
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  Speaker 1: Called nine one one, and she does.
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  Speaker 2: But within hours she is spotted leaving her airbnb in
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  Speaker 2: about five hours, fully dressed, makeup, hair, everything, jetting out
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  Speaker 2: of town.
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  Speaker 1: What does that mean if anything.
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  Speaker 6: Well, right off the bat, if she's trying to flee,
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  Speaker 6: which is what it appears she was trying to do.
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  Speaker 6: Innocent people don't run away when they know that they're
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  Speaker 6: going to need to answer some questions and help further
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  Speaker 6: along an investigation. But to me, it's even deeper, because
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  Speaker 6: this is a clinical psychology PhD studs and during that training,
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  Speaker 6: and she's not new in that training. So during that training,
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  Speaker 6: we are taught about legal investigations, we are taught about ethics,
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  Speaker 6: We are taught about things that make us know that
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  Speaker 6: we don't need to call somebody to figure out if
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  Speaker 6: we need to call nine to one one.
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  Speaker 1: So this is extra troubling.
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  Speaker 6: There's an added layer here.
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  Speaker 2: Jared Farantino is joining us try a lawyer and co
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  Speaker 2: host a primetime crime on YouTube. You can find them
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  Speaker 2: at Jarrettfarantino dot com. Jared and a lot of jurisdictions,
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  Speaker 2: judges no longer give a jury instruction to the jury
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  Speaker 2: about evidence of flight. That's no longer allowed for the
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  Speaker 2: judge to instruct the jury that flight can doesn't have
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  Speaker 2: to be, but can be construed as evidence of guilt
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  Speaker 2: when someone tries to flee the same. However, the prosecution
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  Speaker 2: can still argue it. Let me give a good example,
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  Speaker 2: Scott Peterson. That's a great example. Remember when Lacy's body
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  Speaker 2: had washed ashore as well as its unborn son Connors.
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  Speaker 2: Scott Peterson dyed his hair, loaded up on viagra and
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  Speaker 2: condoms and a fake ID and tried to skip town.
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  Speaker 2: He was caught he also had a water purifier and
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  Speaker 2: camping gear.
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  Speaker 1: In my mind, that's evidence of flight equals evidence of guilt.
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  Speaker 2: So in this case, how would you differentiate the glam
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  Speaker 2: PhD student Versey with Peterson.
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  Speaker 7: So Nancy consciousness of guilt is admissible in Pennsylvania. What
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  Speaker 7: Nicole Versy would have to do in this case is
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  Speaker 7: explain away that conduct. She would say her plans for
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  Speaker 7: some reason changed anything to rebut the fact that she
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  Speaker 7: was trying to high tail it out of town would
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  Speaker 7: be something she could rebut the argument that in fact
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  Speaker 7: she was leaving, she was on her way out of
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  Speaker 7: ten to avoid responsibility for these charges.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, Fertina, I love what you just said. Her plans changed?
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  Speaker 2: When at three am? When did her plans change? But
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  Speaker 2: I do want to follow up on something that Jarrett
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  Speaker 2: Farantino says. And look, he's between a rock and a
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  Speaker 2: hard spot. You take your client the way you find them.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think you're going to get a nun,
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  Speaker 2: a priest, aversion, Sister Teresa, That's not happening, okay, mothers.
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  Speaker 1: Ruisa is not going to be your client. You're stuck
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  Speaker 1: with Versi.
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  Speaker 2: So you've got to somehow Ruppel Stileskin, you got to
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  Speaker 2: spend that straw that hay into Gold Defense Gold. So
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  Speaker 2: he just said that she could argue her plans had changed.
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  Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, What were
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  Speaker 2: her plans? I thought she was going to stay in
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  Speaker 2: the airbnb a few blocks away from where the children
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  Speaker 2: and were apparently assaulted.
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  Speaker 1: What plans changed? Her plan was to be there for
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  Speaker 1: multiple days.
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  Speaker 5: After exactly she had at least two more nights on
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  Speaker 5: the Airbnb reservation. She was going to stay with her friend,
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  Speaker 5: hang out with the babies. She had emailed the owner
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  Speaker 5: of the Airbnb and said, you know, I'm going to
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  Speaker 5: be here, just so excited to stay in your lovely place.
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  Speaker 5: Nothing about oh, I'm only staying one night after I
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  Speaker 5: was in the hospital with my friend's baby. She had
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  Speaker 5: definitely not planned to leave the airbnb.
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  Speaker 1: Earlier Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 2: So taking a look at this timeline to Brian Fitzgibbons
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  Speaker 2: direct to Operations USPA Nationwide Security leading a team of investigators.
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  Speaker 2: You can find him at uspasecurity dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Bryan Fitzgibbons, what do you make of it?
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  Speaker 8: Listen, you look at the timeline when she makes that
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  Speaker 8: call to nine one one at eleven fifteen. All Right,
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  Speaker 8: she already knows what's occurred inside of that house and
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  Speaker 8: what's happened with that baby. All Right, at this time,
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  Speaker 8: a horrific thing has already happened.
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  Speaker 1: Police.
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  Speaker 8: Now by the time she's absconding in the early morning,
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  Speaker 8: over that six hour span, right, police have had a
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  Speaker 8: chance to process that crime scene. That's why they were
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  Speaker 8: waiting outside the airbnb when she was trying to make
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  Speaker 8: her escape.
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  Speaker 2: So let's backtrack it to her coming home from the hospital,
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  Speaker 2: leaving her friend, the mom, and the dad at the
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  Speaker 2: hospital with baby Leon hoping he survives.
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  Speaker 9: Listen EMT's transport Lyon Cats to the hospital shortly before midnight,
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  Speaker 9: and his father, Ethankats, and Nicole Versy drive to the
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  Speaker 9: hospital separately. Savannah Roberts is still at the hospital with
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  Speaker 9: Leon's twin brother, Ari, who is being treated for mysterious
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  Speaker 9: injuries to his groin area. Nicole Versy doesn't stay at
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  Speaker 9: the hospital long. She's seen arriving back at her airbnb
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  Speaker 9: shortly before one am, appearing nervous as she struggles to
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  Speaker 9: unlock the door, grim faced with her cell phone in
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  Speaker 9: one hand. She enters the door code to enter the
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  Speaker 9: apartment building. Versy has to enter the code a couple
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  Speaker 9: of times before getting the number right and entering the building.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know what I could read into that or
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  Speaker 2: translate out of that. Let me go to you, doctor
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  Speaker 2: Sherry Schwartz joining us. Of course, there's nothing I can
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  Speaker 2: glean from that. She gets back, leaving one of her
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  Speaker 2: best friends and the husband at the hospital with baby Leon.
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  Speaker 2: I can't determine any consciousness of guilt. Of course, she's upset.
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  Speaker 2: It's late at night. She comes home, she can't quite
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  Speaker 2: get back into the door.
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  Speaker 1: She struggles with it.
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  Speaker 2: That means nothing to me because it's not her home code,
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  Speaker 2: it's the code from the airbnb, so she's trying to
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  Speaker 2: remember that. I can't really glean anything from that, however,
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  Speaker 2: leaving in the cloak of darkness the next morning at
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  Speaker 2: five am to leave town.
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  Speaker 1: That tells me a lot.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm wondering jump into Alexas Treshak if you know
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  Speaker 2: is she leaving by car or has she called for
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  Speaker 2: an uber or a lyft? And what was her destination?
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  Speaker 2: That's what I'm getting at. Do we know where she
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  Speaker 2: was headed?
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  Speaker 1: Such as the airport doctor Sherry Schwartz.
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  Speaker 2: I can't really read anything into her entry into the
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  Speaker 2: airbnb the night before.
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  Speaker 6: No, However, it is troubling because this is such a
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  Speaker 6: good friend to her, that this friend she traveled across
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  Speaker 6: the country to help this friend take care of the babies.
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  Speaker 6: I read that it was the young couples, the parents
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  Speaker 6: wedding anniversary. It was also Father's Day or around Father's Day,
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  Speaker 6: I believe, So why aren't you at your friend's side?
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  Speaker 6: Why aren't you at the hospital to control your friend
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  Speaker 6: and be there for your friend? And again not to
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  Speaker 6: beat the drum. This is a clinical psychology PhD student
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  Speaker 6: whose training would prepare her to be there and hold
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  Speaker 6: space for somebody in a traumatic situation. And I understand
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  Speaker 6: that she may also have been experiencing anxiety and the
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  Speaker 6: sense of trauma herself. But she was with these babies
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  Speaker 6: and the one who noticed their injuries, and with the
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  Speaker 6: one child, the deceased child. She was with him when
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: he sustained life taking injuries. So that part is troubling
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  Speaker 6: to me.
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  Speaker 2: In last hours, we learned that the so called glam
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  Speaker 2: glamorous PhD student called Verzi tries to leave her Airbnb
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  Speaker 2: in the cloak of darkness at around five o'clock in
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the morning. What if anything, does that mean That will
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  Speaker 2: be up to a jury whether that can be construed
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  Speaker 2: as flight or evidence of guilt. But we do know
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: she was a no show at her arraignment. First of all,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: let me go straight out to Jarrett Fiarantino explain in
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: a nutshell, what is an arrangment?
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  Speaker 7: Basically, Nancy, in Pennsylvania, you're read your charges and you
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: at that point enter a plea of guilty or not guilty.
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  Speaker 7: Typically defendants appear for that, but if they don't appear
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  Speaker 7: or waive that process, a plea of not guilty is
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  Speaker 7: entered on their.
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  Speaker 2: Behalf, automatically entered by the judge. Straight out to Alexis Tereschak,
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  Speaker 2: crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter, Alexis, what happened? Because the
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: state goes to great pains to ensure a criminal defendant
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: has transportation, timely transportation to get to an arrangement. It's
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: an important part of the justice system. It's guaranteed in
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: our constitution that within x hours of you being charged,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: you will be brought before a judge.
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  Speaker 1: It could be a magistrate.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: It could be a fail in the court trial judge,
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  Speaker 2: and you will be formally read the charges against you,
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  Speaker 2: and at that time, if the state's witnesses are known,
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  Speaker 2: those witnesses are given to you and you have a
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: chance to state in court guilty or not guilty. Why
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  Speaker 2: was she a no show? Am?
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  Speaker 1: I corrected, saying she was a no show?
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  Speaker 5: One hundred percent. She was a no show. She sent
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  Speaker 5: her look, she sent her lawyer. Her lawyer appeared on
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  Speaker 5: her behalf. She did not show up, She did not
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  Speaker 5: face the judge, and she did not appear in court.
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  Speaker 5: This would have been the first time that she would
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  Speaker 5: have been seen since being arrested for the felony against
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  Speaker 5: this six week old baby, but she did not. She
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  Speaker 5: chose not to appear. And then he entered the not
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  Speaker 5: guilty plea. Well, she was given enough guilty plea on
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: her behalf in the court, which she is still in jail.
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  Speaker 1: So what does it mean if anything?
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  Speaker 2: Of course, if this ever comes to a jury trial,
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  Speaker 2: which I do believe will, they'll never know she was
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  Speaker 2: a no show in court? Why did she hide out?
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  Speaker 2: Why does she not want to come in and state
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  Speaker 2: not guilty? I point A phrase is called a statement
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  Speaker 2: plea where you try to make statement with the few
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  Speaker 2: words you're given, be it guilty or not guilty in
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  Speaker 2: court in public?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Perfect example, OJ Simpson.
• 17:28
  Speaker 10: Matter of People versus Orienthal James Simpson, how do you
• 17:32
  Speaker 10: plead to count one and two?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's some of my friends at CBS. Those words
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: will ring in my head forever. Absolutely, one hundred percent
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: not guilty. I wonder how many times my old co anchor,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Johnny Cochran practice that with Simpson before he could deliver
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: it in that manner in open court, knowing that it
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: was going to be televised, knowing that the world would
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: see it. Absolutely what percent not guilty? So why did
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: VERSI pull a no show? Then? Of course there's let
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: me think, Scott Peterson, listen.
• 18:10
  Speaker 11: Is that correct, mis Com Peterson?
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: You're feeding actilly?
• 18:12
  Speaker 11: Is the true charges of murdered plus the special deny
• 18:16
  Speaker 11: any special allegations for episodes?
• 18:18
  Speaker 7: That's correct.
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  Speaker 1: That's my friends at Court TV.
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  Speaker 2: And can I tell you Mark Garrigo say what she
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: might about geargos He is a wizard at defending criminals.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you he had Scott Peterson decked out looking
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: his best at ease in court, insisting I am hey,
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  Speaker 2: I want to see that one more time. Scott Peterson
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  Speaker 2: saying I am innocent.
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: Is that correct?
• 18:49
  Speaker 11: Mis Com Peterson, you're feeding Acchillia. Is the two charges
• 18:51
  Speaker 11: of murdered plus the special deny any special allegations episodes?
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  Speaker 7: That's correct?
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  Speaker 2: Geges, please do you have to give him cues in
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: open court?
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  Speaker 1: That's for our friends at Court TV.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: He's like absolutely, say absolutely, Okay, So.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: That wasn't a rehearsed.
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  Speaker 2: You know what, I love looking at defendants when they
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: say absolutely one hundred percent not guilty. I just like
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to look at them while they're lying. Speaking of lying,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Can we watch O. J. Simpson just one more time
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: just to say we did matter.
• 19:29
  Speaker 10: Of people versus Orienthal James Simpson, how do you plead
• 19:33
  Speaker 10: to count one and two?
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  Speaker 2: Absolute?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: That down from our friends at CBS. Absolutely one hundred
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: percent not guilty. And then I guess you could take
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: the coburger approach. Okay, and we all know while we're
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: hearing them say absolutely one hundred percent, I swear to
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the Lord in Heaven not guilty.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: That they're guilty. Okay.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: So I look at them and they seem so believable. Hey,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: what stunt did Coburger.
• 20:03
  Speaker 12: Pull Miss Taylor?
• 20:04
  Speaker 13: Who's mister Coberger prepared to plead to these charges?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Where I feel all the same.
• 20:11
  Speaker 8: Because mister Coberger is Sandy silent.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I'm going to answer.
• 20:16
  Speaker 13: An ideals you police, I've been she charged as one, two, three, four,
• 20:22
  Speaker 13: and five.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: That's my friends at East Idaho News. Hey, let me
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: go to you, Jarrett Farantino. Do you see that the
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: defendants are totally rehearsed. They know exactly what to do
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: and not do when they are asked when the judge
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: pops the questioning court, how do you plead?
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Coburger was his call as a.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Pickle in court and knew that his lawyer, Ann Taylor
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: was going to jump up and say he's going to
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: stand silent, and there's a trial strategy to standing silent.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: But what do you think about the rehearsals?
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: Well, I think clearly those individuals were rehearsed. They had
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: prepared statements to just kind of a slip in there
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: when the judge asked them for their position. But it's
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: worth noting Nancy Colberger, Simpson, and Scott Peterson all have
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: video cameras in the courtroom, so the games start. Then
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: they're laying the foundation to get this defense out. In Pennsylvania,
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: where this case hails from, there are no cameras in
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: the courtroom, so there's no cameras to play to. If
• 21:21
  Speaker 7: she skips arraignment, she simply gets a not guilty plea.
• 21:24
  Speaker 7: At this point, I.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Guess you've heard of court reporters, reporters in court taking
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: down and writing about every single move Jarrett Varantino. In
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: our country, according to the founding fathers, we have open courtrooms,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: no secret proceedings like you hear about in other countries,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: you know, like China or Russia, where everything's done behind
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: closed doors.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Not here. As much as we can, I.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Guarantee you reporters would have been there to write down
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: everything she said, she did, what she was ring, her demeanor,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: whether she stuttered, whether she.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Paused, you name it.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Now here is a strategic approach, and that would be
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Alec Baldwin. Alec Baldwin. The judge just threw out the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: charges against him. So in that case, Alexis Tereschuk refreshed
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: my recollection. Didn't he send in his lawyers to plead
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: not guilty? And he did not go to court?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Correct? He did not appear in court.
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: Famous Alec Baldwin, you know, super recognizable movie star, has
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: insisted that he well, he even said I think I
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: didn't pull the trigger. But he has insisted that he
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: was not at fault for the gun that fired in
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: his hand that killed Helena.
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: But he didn't appear in court that first time.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: So why didn't Ersey at least show up to court
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: and let her lawyer do the talking like Coburger Take
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: a look from east side her news.
• 22:55
  Speaker 13: Miss Taylor, he's mister Colbert and prepared to three to
• 22:58
  Speaker 13: the starges tyld sin sid.
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: Because sim mister Koberber, he is sind silent.
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: I'm going to answer.
• 23:08
  Speaker 13: An idealty police, I'm fish charge guts one, two, three, four,
• 23:14
  Speaker 13: and five.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: As parents of newborn Savannah and Ethan wait in the
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: er with the baby Ari, they receive an even more
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: worrying call. Baby Leon has fallen and is unresponsive.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, what do we know about the movements of everyone
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: the night? Baby Leon gets such extreme injuries to the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: head that he dies.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 23:42
  Speaker 14: Calling nine one one around eleven fifteen pm, Nicole Versey
• 23:45
  Speaker 14: tells the dispatcher that Leon has fallen from a bascinette
• 23:48
  Speaker 14: and bumped his head and is becoming unresponsive. When police
• 23:51
  Speaker 14: arrive at Versey tells police she falls asleep with the
• 23:54
  Speaker 14: baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up, she
• 23:56
  Speaker 14: goes to get a bottle from the kitchen for the baby.
• 23:59
  Speaker 14: While she is out of the room, she hears Leon
• 24:01
  Speaker 14: screaming and finds him on the floor with a bump
• 24:04
  Speaker 14: on his head. She tells police he fell out of
• 24:06
  Speaker 14: his bouncer seat.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Let me just analyze that.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: We all know straight out to you, Brian Fitzgibbons, Director
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: usp USPA Nationwide Security. We know that, she tells police
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: at one point, he fell out of a bouncy seat. Later,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: she says, out of a bacinet. Those two are very
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: different pieces of baby furniture. A bacinet is higher up
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: off the ground that there is a bouncy seat. But
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: what about this fact, Brian Fitzgibbons. She says, she falls asleep,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: she wakes up, the baby is in the bouncy seat.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: She leaves the baby in the bouncy seat, which is
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: supposed to be seat buckled, to go get the bottle,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and it's then she hears Leon's scream finds on the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: floor of the bump on his head. She says, he
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: fell out of his bouncer seat. Now, you have interesting
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: information about the height of the bouncer seat, and I
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: want to talk to you about the timing.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And even on that bouncer.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Seat, you see a spot for the baby to put
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: its legs through, which is like a really soft type
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: of a cotton slide in for the baby so it
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: doesn't fall out.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, what are your thoughts on the bouncy seat injury.
• 25:27
  Speaker 8: First of all, Nancy, we have to understand police have
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: already reported that the tallest height on this bouncy seat
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: that the baby could have fallen from is eighteen inches.
• 25:39
  Speaker 8: So Nicole, her defense is going to have to explain
• 25:44
  Speaker 8: how a baby falls eighteen inches to its death.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Are you on a first nating basis with VERSI? Now
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: sorry called her, Nicole? Are you expecting to go over
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: for dinner after the acquittal?
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: I forgot the last name.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Sorry about that, Nancy, Versy state versus, go ahead, say
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: whatever you want. But to elisis Terrisschuk. Let me talk
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: to you about the timing. He's right, the investigators measure
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: it is eighteen inches. I can see doctor Kimdall Crown's
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: is just recoiling right now that a baby would eject
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: itself from an eighteen inch bouncy seat and die.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: But that said, the.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Timing, the timing, she sees the baby in the bouncy seat,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: she goes to the kitchen, she hears a scream. So
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: the timing, So am I supposed to believe that in
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: those forty five seconds the baby kills itself?
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: Well, Andy, she did say he fell out of a
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: bascinet first, and then changed her story to the bouncy seat.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: So a bascinet, as you showed the picture there, they
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: have sides on them, and a six week old baby
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: cannot fall out of that bascinet. He can't stand up,
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: he can't move, he can't grab the side. You can't
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: fall out of that bassinet unless it was a swinging
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: one and it flipped over, which I don't think.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: The timing, the time, and Jarrett Farentino helped me out,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: help me out, forty five seconds, How in that timing,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: in that short time.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Does the baby kill itself?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: That's quite the coincidence, Jarrett Farantino, And I guess even
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: you taking the side of the COVERSI will admit there
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: is no coincidence in criminal law. In the forty five
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: seconds it takes her to walk to the kitchen, the
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: baby kills itself.
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: That's an extremely narrow window for an opportunity like something
• 27:33
  Speaker 7: of this nature to happen. I mean, the charge is
• 27:35
  Speaker 7: non accidental. So there are injuries that have been observed
• 27:39
  Speaker 7: that have allowed the examiners to conclude this was not
• 27:42
  Speaker 7: an accident. There are injuries that are not consistent with
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: a fall. That's exactly what brought about these charges. So
• 27:50
  Speaker 7: that version in that timeline doesn't make sense when compared
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: to the injuries.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, listen to this.
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: Rush to the hospital, doctors discovered Leon Katz has a
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: severe skull fracture to the left side of his head
• 28:01
  Speaker 9: and multiple brain bleeds. The entry suffered by the six
• 28:05
  Speaker 9: week old baby proof fatal, and he's pronounced dead the
• 28:07
  Speaker 9: next morning at Children's hospital. Police say Versy has no
• 28:11
  Speaker 9: plausible explanation for the severity of Leon's injuries. Examining the
• 28:15
  Speaker 9: bouncer seat, the detectives report that it's about eighteen inches
• 28:18
  Speaker 9: from the tallest point of the seat to the floor.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is what matters.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: What the medical examiner says, I can argue, hey, she's leaving,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: She's fleeing in the middle of the night.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: This that the timing, the coincidence.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: It's all about the CD cause of death. Nobody can
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: tell it like Kendle Crowns. Excuse me, doctor Kendall Crowns,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Chief Medical Examiner, Terrance County.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: He cringes every time I say this, but never a
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: lot of business at the Fort Worth Morgue, esteemed lecturer
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, literally thousands
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: of autopsies under his belt, Doctor Kendall Crowns, what do you.
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: Think so the description of the injuries of fracture the
• 29:17
  Speaker 10: skull brain bleed is not from an eighteen inch fall,
• 29:21
  Speaker 10: especially with these bouncy seats if they're not buckled in
• 29:24
  Speaker 10: and they usually kind of roll out of them, they're
• 29:27
  Speaker 10: not even falling eighteen inches at that point. The type
• 29:30
  Speaker 10: of force that would be necessary to fracture the skull
• 29:33
  Speaker 10: like that the bouncy seat would have been had to
• 29:35
  Speaker 10: have put on the second story of a building and
• 29:38
  Speaker 10: the child rolled off and fell to the ground that way.
• 29:41
  Speaker 10: So to me, that sounds more like the child was
• 29:44
  Speaker 10: had their heads slammed against a solid surface.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray.
• 29:59
  Speaker 9: Investigators Nicole Versy about the injuries to Ari Katz, and
• 30:02
  Speaker 9: she immediately points out that she was the one who
• 30:05
  Speaker 9: spotted the injuries to Ari and alerted the parents. Versy
• 30:09
  Speaker 9: says the infant scratches his own face as he's flailing
• 30:12
  Speaker 9: about when he's being put in his car seat. Investigators
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: are also made aware Leon was alert, conscious, and not
• 30:18
  Speaker 9: injured when he is left with Versy watching over him
• 30:21
  Speaker 9: while the parents leave the home to take Ari to
• 30:24
  Speaker 9: the hospital for his mysterious genital injuries to be examined.
• 30:27
  Speaker 9: Versy tells officers she had fallen asleep with Leon in
• 30:30
  Speaker 9: his bouncy seat, and when she woke up, she went
• 30:32
  Speaker 9: to the kitchen to get him a bottle. Versy claims
• 30:35
  Speaker 9: while in the kitchen, she hears a thump and Leon crying,
• 30:38
  Speaker 9: and she finds him laying on the floor with a
• 30:40
  Speaker 9: horrible bump on the left side of his head. She
• 30:42
  Speaker 9: calls the parents, who tell her to call nine one one,
• 30:45
  Speaker 9: and that's.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: What she does.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, already, this case is generating a lot of controversy.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I'm wanting to hear what I read someone had written
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: last night. I'm sorry, this is an absurd story. The
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: fact that people assume she's the baby murderer is effing terrifying.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Nothing suggests this was not an accident. They go on
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: to say, Neeborns are so effing fragile they break ribs
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: when they're born.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: They come out not.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Yet completed, gest stating that's why they have a gigantic
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: hole in their.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Skull, the soft spot.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: It goes on to say, one hard fall, the baby's dead,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: and that's what happened here.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Doctors claim every bruise on a baby means abuse.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: It's almost always wrong, they write, Please stop believing these
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: absurd headlines.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: People who kill babies have histories of problems.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Countless arrests, violent histories, drug addictions, alcohol problems, none describe
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Nicole Versey.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, can I go to doctor Kendall Crown's that's just
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: so much.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I'm just a trial law you're the medical examiner. So
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: babies just die all the time when they fall.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 32:09
  Speaker 10: I neither did I, because if we die, if babies
• 32:11
  Speaker 10: died all the time when they fall, I'd have a
• 32:13
  Speaker 10: lot more business, which I don't have, so that's a
• 32:16
  Speaker 10: very inaccurate description. Also, the falling, we get a lot
• 32:22
  Speaker 10: of child abuse cases where the child fell from something,
• 32:25
  Speaker 10: and it's usually because that's how they're covering the damage
• 32:28
  Speaker 10: to the head that was caused. Then you can add
• 32:32
  Speaker 10: on there that ribs are broken. Okay, occasionally ribs are
• 32:35
  Speaker 10: broken during the birth process, but not to the extent
• 32:39
  Speaker 10: that you see damage from child abuse. The head not
• 32:42
  Speaker 10: being fully formed, well, that's so your brain can expand,
• 32:45
  Speaker 10: and that actually means your skull is more appliable. As
• 32:49
  Speaker 10: you get older, it becomes more hardened or more bony,
• 32:53
  Speaker 10: so it won't fracture as much. So again, all those
• 32:57
  Speaker 10: statements are completely inaccurate. And finally, you know, child abuse
• 33:01
  Speaker 10: theres are bad people. It's usually a parent or a
• 33:05
  Speaker 10: boyfriend that has just a bad moment, can't handle the
• 33:08
  Speaker 10: child and loses it. It's not that they have a history.
• 33:13
  Speaker 10: It's often it's just that one moment and they lose
• 33:16
  Speaker 10: control and they kill the kid.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Well, the writer is.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Suggesting that you have to have a history of abuse
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: or criminal convictions in order to kill a baby. That's
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: simply not true. And I'm trying to think back and
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: practically every child murder case I had that did not
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: have a criminal history. Let's see, there's so many different
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: directions to go. What about Benson Gardner had their.
• 33:51
  Speaker 9: Gardener dromsof for a two month old baby and an
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: older son with the babysitter, Marisa Titzer. When the mom
• 33:57
  Speaker 9: returns to pick her children up, the baby is already
• 33:59
  Speaker 9: in his seat. He's already got his winter parka on,
• 34:01
  Speaker 9: and his hat is pulled down over his eyes, and
• 34:03
  Speaker 9: the sitter says, hey, he's asleep. It's only after they
• 34:06
  Speaker 9: get to the laundromat when Heather takes the baby out
• 34:09
  Speaker 9: of the car seat and realizes he's perfectly stiff. His
• 34:13
  Speaker 9: legs are bent in the shape of the car seat.
• 34:15
  Speaker 9: Her sister calls nine to one one and mom begins CPR,
• 34:18
  Speaker 9: but it's too late. The baby's already dead. By the
• 34:21
  Speaker 9: time rescue workers arrive. They declare the baby dead at
• 34:24
  Speaker 9: the laundromat.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: In that case, like in the current case of the
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: so called glam PhD student, the babysitter was known to mommy,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: and of course we have and did not have a
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: criminal history.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: My point, what about Fallon Fridley.
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: They were horrific.
• 34:43
  Speaker 12: The child had injuries all over her body that were
• 34:46
  Speaker 12: definitely not consistent with just hitting her head on a
• 34:50
  Speaker 12: slide of the playground. They found contusions all over her body,
• 34:55
  Speaker 12: terrors to some of her internal organs, which we're definitely
• 35:01
  Speaker 12: inconsistent with hitting your head on a slide as well.
• 35:04
  Speaker 12: So just horrific, horrific injuries.
• 35:06
  Speaker 15: When we were at the hospital, you know, the doctor
• 35:09
  Speaker 15: had mentioned that he had never seen a child with
• 35:12
  Speaker 15: injuries this severe actually recover, so hearing that was really
• 35:17
  Speaker 15: a heavy blow, but we were all optimistic. I think
• 35:20
  Speaker 15: it was around one fifteen one twenty in the morning
• 35:24
  Speaker 15: that we got the hard news.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Doctor Tendal Crowns is just over and over and over,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: a child, an infant, or taught dies of extreme head
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: injuries that just can't happen from an eighteen inch fall.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: You just don't fall and die.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Everybody on earth would be dead because we all fall
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: at some point or another.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: You don't just die when.
• 35:49
  Speaker 10: You fall, correct, I mean especially children, because they their
• 35:54
  Speaker 10: heads aren't completely ossified or they're not completely formed bony
• 36:00
  Speaker 10: bone wise, so they do have some beendability to them.
• 36:03
  Speaker 10: And also they're not at an adult height if they
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: fall from a standing height, they're two foot three foot,
• 36:10
  Speaker 10: it isn't going to cause a fracture. When you see
• 36:13
  Speaker 10: fractures like this, especially in a six week old, it's
• 36:16
  Speaker 10: someone pounding their head on something. It just can't happen
• 36:19
  Speaker 10: from a fall. And also you have to think about
• 36:22
  Speaker 10: how would they get bruises. They're not even crawling around,
• 36:24
  Speaker 10: they're not really even standing yet, So any bruises that
• 36:28
  Speaker 10: you're seeing on a six week old is more than
• 36:31
  Speaker 10: likely an inflicted trauma.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: In the case of Nicole Versey, the District Attorney's office
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: is providing four reasons for seeking the death penalty. One
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: is that the defendant committed the killing well in perpetration
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: of a felony. The second is the offense was committed
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: by means of torture. The third reason given for seeking
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: the death penalty is the defendant has a significant history
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: of felony convictions involving the use or threat of violence
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: to a person. And the fourth reason is the child
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: was under twelve years of age.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: The cal Verzi does not have any criminal history.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: That particular aggravating circumstance only comes into play once a
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: guilty verdict is handed down.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: And the death penalty is being sought.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: But I want to address Alexis Tereschuk that the prosecution
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: says one reason they would see the death penalty in
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: this case.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Is because of torture.
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: Explain, they feel like it wasn't that the baby fell
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: out of the bassinet or the bouncy seat, that he
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: was repeatedly injured, repeatedly hit or repeatedly slammed against something,
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: and this was torturing. He is six weeks old, tiniest
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: little thing like those little boys are so small, and
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: he was torture. They believe that his injuries were so
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: severe and so dramatic that this is they are considering
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: this torture.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: It's really hard to reconcile what we know about this
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: so called glamorous PhD student studying psychology and the fact
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: that torture is alleged by the prosecute.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Let's get it from the horse's mouth.
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: My name is Nicole Ersey and I'm the first author
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: on the article titled Depression symptom patterns as predictors of
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: metabolic syndrome and cardiac events.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Again, it reminds me of Scott Peterson.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, that's my friends at Heart and
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Mind Journal, and that's Nicole Versey speaking about her PhD project. Again,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I use Peterson because it's very hard to look at
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: him and reconcile not in that big true exactly, but
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: in court. It's hard to reconcile him in court at
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: the time of the trial with what he was facing
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: in his charges of murdering Lacy.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: And the baby. So what does it mean? Is the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: eye tricking the mind or vice versa? Can we believe
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: what we see?
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Or on the other hand, and let me throw this
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: to doctor Sherry Schwartz joining us. I was reading all
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: the online comments quite controversial, where another observer states, after
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: reading about Nicole Versey's PhD aspirations like Coburger, is she
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: living out some other trauma or some fantasy that she
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: was developing as she wrote her psychology PhD?
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Is it far fetched? Is it real? Those are the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: same questions we're trying to.
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: Answer and co Burger, Well, the American Psychological Association did
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: a study back in around twenty twelve. It showed that
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: psychology PhD students tend to have a high level of
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: mental health symptoms like anxiety, depression, and other mental health concerns.
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: To me, that's a major concern when you're educating people
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: to go into a field to work with vulnerable people.
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: We require police officers to pass a psych evaluation, why
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: wouldn't we require clinical psychology students to past the same
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: psych evaluation whether or not she wanted to research her
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: friend's trauma. I saw that comment online. That's hard to say.
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: That would be really diabolical. Doctor Kendall Crown said something
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: earlier about the fact that it seems like maybe she
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: just lost it. The baby was crying, you know, something
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: like that. That would show poor emotion regulation, her inability
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: to control her emotions in an appropriate manner, which is
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: in and of itself a mental health concern. So any
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: number of things could have been behind why this baby
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: was abused.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: We wait as just as un falls, and today our
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: prayers and our thoughts good to those whose lives were
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: forever changed September eleventh, two thousand and one. And we
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: remember the heroes who ran up the stairs to save others,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: as set up down the stairs to breathe in the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: fresh air, those who were killed in the Twin Towers.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: We will never forget law enforcement officers over sixty and
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: over three hundred.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Firefighters and paramedics and two thousand plus civilians who died
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: our American heroes. Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye friend,