Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / What we’re hearing about the Cubs: 2016 reunion, trade chips, deadline priorities

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What we’re hearing about the Cubs: 2016 reunion, trade chips, deadline priorities · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory File Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Zadiv Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic. Patrick. Before we
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: get to the show, I want to direct everyone to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Foul Territory Shop dot com. The shop the twenty twenty
• 0:26
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• 0:29
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• 0:32
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• 0:36
  Speaker 1: of the season and playoffs at foul Territoryshop dot com.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: You can scan that QR code if you're watching on
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: YouTube right now. But that's Foul Territoryshop dot com. All right, Patrick.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It was the ten year reunion this weekend of you know,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the series No No Cubs fan can forget a World Series.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I was not there on Saturday. You covered it. Tell
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: us tell us about the event, tell us about the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: vibes and how it was.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was hot. I think a lot of people.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I it was some long nights there for the twenty
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: sixteen crew, and they certainly enjoyed themselves out in the
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: right Fields bleachers there. I guess our guy Nick Fredell
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: was out there for that home run ball that Michael
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Bush hit that you know, Rissol did not actually catch.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: That was a spirited debate on our slack breaking news
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: channel or whatever channel. It was just sort of like, wait,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: did this just happen? And didn't something like this happen
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: actually last year? But just very very Rizzo, you know,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: man of man of the people out there. And yeah,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I think it was almost you know, I think it's
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: kind of funny to do a quote champions Gate when
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: you have three World Series titles in one hundred and
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: fifty years, But I thought it blends in well, just
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: kind of visually, and I think they did a good
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: job overall, just like kind of bringing those guys together.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I mean that's I mean, that's what theo Epstein said.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Like everything was first class, Like this was not a
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: one afternoon It was really a full itinerary over multiple
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: multiple days, families involved, you know a lot of kind
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: of picking up where they left off, and it's almost
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: almost fool proof in the sense like that team was
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: just so larger than life and they just created so
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: many great memories for Cubs fans that just like you know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: putting their face on the video board or just kind
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: of giving a glimpse of them walking out onto the field.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: It was a kind of an automatic slam dunk. You know,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: good feelings and you know the Cubs, you know, won
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: a Series one, two games played pretty well. And yeah,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: there are two people that I chose to write about
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: just because I thought they were just kind of a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: newsworthy angle. And I think maybe we start with David Ross.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously, like Ross is a it's a
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: fascinating story, right, Like I mean, like the hero like
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: a hero's welcome, carried off the field? Was he like
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: carried off the field? Am I remembering this right? Yeah? Yeah?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: And I didn't make this up? Okay, yeah, yeah it.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Sounds made up, but it really was.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: After you know, just like a huge figure on that
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: World Series team obviously comes back and manages the team
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and is unceremoniously fired to hire Craig Counsel. Could very
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: easily have been an awkward situation for him returning, you know,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: being around Jed Hoyer, the man who fired him. How
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: was that situation? Like, what were your feelings? How was
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Ross kind of behaving? I guess did it feel awkward
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: in any way? No?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: He was definitely in character. You know, he spoke with
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: a group of us alongside Anthony Rizzo, so they had
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: their kind of banter back and forth. Like you know,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Rizzo was like, you know, take off your sunglasses. He
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: used another word in front of sunglasses. When you're doing
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: an interview. Someone asked Ross about being a coach, and
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: he was like, I was never a coach. I was
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: the manager. Like he has that sharpness to him, and
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: you know, my question was just I felt it just
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: had to be asked, like, at any point in this
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: planning for their union, do you have any second thoughts?
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And he said no. He said, this is all about
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: kind of the brotherhood they created, Like wherever these guys are,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I'll drop everything and be there. You know, it's about
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: celebrating the team's accomplishment, not really his individual feelings. He
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: said that feels like a whole other chapter of his life.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: That's why he went to Cups convention in January. So
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I feel like there were some intermediate steps before walking
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: out onto the Wrigley Field grass and holding the World
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Series trophy during the national anthem, and so you know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I think I may have said this before, but I
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: think it's kind of like David Ross got that job.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: When him getting into the job, that means Joe Madden
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: loses a job. So there was some awkwardness in how
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: he got the job, and I understand why he was
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: hired then, but it was sort of a very narrow
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: criteria with a specific group of players and you know,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: club officials upstairs. I think, on balance, he did a
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: pretty good job, and now, weirdly, I think he's a
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: much more attractive candidate. I think he has a lot
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: of really good experiences, but it seems like at the moment,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: at least, there isn't that same sort of mutual interests
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: that I don't know if he has that sort of
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: godfather figure the way that theo Epstein was to kind
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: of like you know, annoint him, or that same set
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: of players and coaches in front off the staff that
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: where he can kind of be plugged in the same way.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: But I think he you know, he learned a lot
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: from his time in Chicago, and you know, the sense
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: that I got was not bitterness, It was appreciation for like, Wow,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: how lucky you are to be part of this team.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: You know that you know, he jokes about John Lester,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: made him a lot of money. You know, it got
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: him in into ESPN, has this podcast through Anthony Rizzo,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of great things that in his life
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: came through the Cubs, And I think that is the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: overriding feeling. But still I think the urine would have
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: been a little different if he was still the manager,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: And I think these last couple of years would have
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: felt a little different in terms of that connection to
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's a couple of things here. We don't
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: can get into the whole psychology of it, but it
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: wouldn't I don't think it'd be the healthiest thing to
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: still be upset about. Obviously, I'm assuming he wasn't thrilled
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: at the moment and for a little while afterwards. But
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to hold on to that for what it would be
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: like we'd be pushing three years now. Right since he's
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: been fired, it's like two and a half years. Like
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: hopefully he's moved past the whatever, the bitterness or the
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: anger that he likely felt initially. But he also it
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't like it was a disastrous tenure, Like he wasn't fired. Yeah,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: because yeah, he wasn't fired because like this is a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: mess and they need to find someone else. Hoyer just
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: viewed it as an opportunity. He viewed Craig Counsel as
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the best manager in the game, and he went and
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: got him, Like you get it. It was pretty like
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: it was devoid of like sentimentality, or you could argue
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: it was a callous move whatever, but he went and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: did what he thought was best for the organization at
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, it is interesting that he's not more
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: talked about as a potential manager though for other teams.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You're right, like he doesn't have that connection that theo
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Epstein connects connection that he obviously had with the Cubs.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I'm not surprised that he's not like
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: lamenting it and sitting there bitter still like he's He's
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: is a guy that can spin things pretty positively. He's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: also a very confident guy. I don't think he thinks
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: he's like like, he believes he's a good manager and
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: he's better than he was even when he was managing
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the Cubs, Like he learned something from that tenure. I like,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: he's not looking to, like, you know, take a minor
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: league job or something like that. I think he believes
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: he's a good manager and deserves another shot at it,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: so someone that didn't sound like he was ready to
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: get back in the game as far as running things
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: theo Epstein, you asked him about the potential of him being,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: you know, running baseball ops somewhere again.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt I needed just that quote on the
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: record for whenever hiring and firing season really starts up again.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And obviously he has a minority ownership stake in the
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Red Sox, so like there's like eight steps ahead. But
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming you'd have to unwind that if you wanted
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: to join another major league team. But yeah, he's very
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: comfortable in his life on the East Coast, with a
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: mix of personal and professional responsibilities, spending time with his family.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: He's really enjoyed that.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I think one way he sort of marks this ten
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: year reunion is you know, when the Cubs one sixteen,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: you know he's sitting there with his older son viewing
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: it through his eyes, and you know he is now
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: preparing to go off to college. And so that's kind
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: of how how time flies. And I don't know, I
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: just wanted to ask it because you know, Ross felt
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: that deep connection to THEO, like THEO had this swagger,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: this confidence, this gravitas about him, that he was never
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: a player, but he could always just sort of say
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: screw it, like he could always walk away or he
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: could you know, go at. He could manage up, he
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: could manage down. He could speak to the media in
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: ways that not everyone can. He could talk to players
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: in ways that not everyone can. I should at as well.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And so Ross felt that with THEO, I think more
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: than Jed, even though they had a fairly good relationship
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: going into it, like that was Theo's higher even if
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Jed you know, signed off on it after twenty nineteen.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: And so just hearing THEO, you know talk about you know,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: being background the guys and you know, telling the old
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: old stories and getting a run around Chicago for a
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: couple late nights, I was just curious if if that
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: got the competitive juices flowing again. The Red Sox are
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: playing a lot better now. I think maybe the quote
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: would have been viewed differently if they were still in
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: a tailspin. But no, he's you know, he felt liberation
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: was the word he used when the Cubs won in sixteen,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: knowing that that would give him the freedom to walk
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: away whenever he wanted, if they hadn't won. He never
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: would have walked away voluntarily. He knew that was like
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the job to do. So I don't know, something to
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: keep in the back of your mind, you know, I
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: thought it was worth asking, Like, if he's standing there,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I had to look forward somehow. I don't know how
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: many of those opportunities will become available this offseason. I
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: guess the Angels are kind of in transition. I guess
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: the Padres are in the process of finalizing a sale.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: But you know, you can afford to be juicy. So like,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: whatever jobs are out there, there are very few that
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: would appeal to him, just in an abstract sense. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: so it sounds like, you know, he's pretty set on
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: continuing in this role with the Fenway Sports Group.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it really like I'm not sure what more
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: he has to prove there. Maybe just them, like you said,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the competitive juices. That's the only thing I could imagine
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: him just want like wanting that competitiveness and like to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: be in the mix again. But it makes sense for
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: him to stay, you know, kind of out of that
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: side of things. Let's take a quick break and talk
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: about some baseball stuff, some stuff going on in the field.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And just how the Cubs could possibly improve this team
• 13:16
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• 14:21
  Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, when when talking about how the Cubs improve,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: it's important to understand, you know, how their system is.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And I asked Jed Eyer about like the state of
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the system essentially, like how where he felt things were,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: and it was pretty clear. It's been a good year.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You know that they've they've improved, the system's gotten better.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And it primarily that's happened on the position player side.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Like it's a lot of position players either you know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: had bounce back seasons, I guess, or or kind of
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: broke out. Uh. And and it's looked good. It's it's
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: a it's a ton of talent there as far as
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: bats go. Curious to see how many of them are
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: available in the trade, you know, Like I think the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: big name that everybody saw breakout this year is Josiah
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Hartshort sixth round, sixth round pick out of high school,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: high school kid. Uh. They paid him, well, it wasn't
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: like it. They were shocked that this is how it
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: turned out. They liked him, they tarted him, and he's
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: he's played really well, he's a top fifty ish prospect.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Some would say better than that. And and I would
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: say from just like understanding how these how how this
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: you know front office works. This guy isn't going anywhere
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: unless they're getting a pitcher who's around for more than
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: this season. He's not going for a rental. Jefferson Rojas
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: is probably like the code number one in the system. Uh,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you know, middle infielder, contact power. We're very highly thought
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: of prospect as well. And those are the types of names.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: If they're moved, you're not seeing, you're not seeing, you know,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: unless the Cubs get in on Trek's schooble and and
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a different thing and some like then maybe,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: And even then, I just don't think that's how Jed
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Hoyer and Carter Hawkins think.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: No, I mean what jumped out to me and your
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: piece is Jackson Wiggins. This idea we kind of alluded
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to it over the weekend of you know, if they've
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: restocked the pitching side a bit, if there are some
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: injury concerns, like normally, if you're trading a pitcher, you'd
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: like to backfill on some level. And it seems like
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Wiggins plus one of these hitters, even if they're sort
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: of on a second tier of prospects, like that will
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: get you something that can help in a pennant race.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Like I know that's not maybe that doesn't get you
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: a two time cy Young Award winner, but he might
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: not get traded anyways. And I think the main takeaway
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: from your show is like Cubs are open for business,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: right Yeah.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's any pitching prospect off the off
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the table, like as far as like they drafted a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: bunch of guys. I feel like they're you know, they
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: they are high on who they drafted and and guys
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: are available. There's also I mean there's some injuries. Caleb
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Wing is a is a young guy that looked good
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: for you know, high school guy drafted last summer. I
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: believe he's out for the season. I don't know exactly
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: it's an arm injury. I don't know exactly what's going on,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: but they don't sound optimistic that he's going to pitch
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: again this year. Dominic Reed is someone they drafted last
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: year that was the that was pitching. Well, he's got
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a shoulder issue. He's not going to get on the mound.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like again before the deadline, which likely
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: makes it hard to move a guy like that, Like
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you can't. It's it's hard to move guys that are
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: injured unless someone's just like Naborn with this guy and
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: willing to take the risk. But it also dampens their
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: value obviously. But there's they're they're willing to move the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: guys like that. You know, everyone that was in the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: system pre draft, every arm that was in the system
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: pre draft, I would say, it's available for the right
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: for the right price. You know, they they're they're willing
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to move these guys. They're they're they didn't love their
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: pitching in general in the system. Uh, that's why they
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: went so heavy with with pitching in the drafty. They
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: were trying to find better fits and guys that they
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: felt were higher upside and they could develop and and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: turn into you know, big pieces of of either the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: major league team or or do this again in a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: couple of years.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some of these guys they have to trade.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I know, you don't want to make moves out of
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: like desperation or feeling boxed in, but like you know,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Seaw Ramirez, then you get to that next layer of
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: like a James Treanto's. Yeah, it was at triple A.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: He was a second round pick in the twenty one draft.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: He had reclassified the Cubs bought out his commitment to UNC. Thinking,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: like the best college hitters in the draft, this is
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: what it looks like when they're in high school. And
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: he hasn't gained a ton of traction in terms of, like,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: you know, being that next man up or generating a
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: ton of buzz. The power just hasn't really come. But
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: as you put it, he's quietly hitting like three fourteen
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: now with an eight hundred plus ops. He is on
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: only twenty three years old. He's on the forty man
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: roster as you put it, like the best thing for
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: his career would probably be getting traded to a rebuilding
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: situation where he could get some runway. And like he's
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: not the only player in that sort of predicament, Like
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: there's not a clear path to Wrigley, And sometimes the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: longer you keep these guys, the less valuable they become.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like Torianto's needs to be moved for
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: both sides, like to maximize his value for the Cubs
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and for him to get a chance to you know,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you get some major league ginnings, get out there and
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: get in some games for some team that's you know,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: rebuilding and willing to give him time out there. Kane Kepley.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I saw something online yesterday that he may have left
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: a game injured. But that's a guy that, you know,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: center fielder like good defender, fast. He doesn't have power,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: but he gets on base a ton. Can you know,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: make a ton of contact? Like what's his path? Like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: how is he gonna get to the big leagues for
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: the Cubs? It just doesn't make sense with Pek or
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Armstrong in trench and center field. That's a guy that
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: has some value. There's there's some good depth here. I
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: like one name that I don't think the Cubs would
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: move because it's hard to find young catchers his own
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: as he's kind of broken out this year. I know
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: he's twenty five. Catchers develop a little slowly. I just
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: think I could see him like he feels like someone
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: that like next year at this time, we're talking about like, oh,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: own a Ors is playing pretty well for the major
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: league team. He's a nice bat. That's that's just my
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: personal opinion just talking to people around the team like,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and I also remember it was a year and a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: half ago they were desperate for catching. Like, you don't
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: just give away catching in a trade. It's unless you're
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: you know, unless a team is admin. It's kind of
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: like when when the Cubs got Michael Bush, the Dodgers
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: didn't want anyone else but Sire Hope. You know, the
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Cubs didn't want to give Zire Hope away, But that's
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: who the Dodgers demanded in that trade, and that's what
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: they need to do get the deal done. So I
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: guess if there's a deal where they're getting someone that
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: they rarely value, you could see, Like, I don't think
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: any of these guys are really untouchable, but that's that's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: a name that I would add to like the just
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: below Hartshort and Rojas, maybe even equal with them, just
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: because he's a catcher and they're so hard to develop catchers,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: so hard to get catchers. He's supposedly pretty good behind
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the plate, and he's just raking everywhere he goes. He's
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: kind of broke out in the AFL and hasn't stopped hitting.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think know the Cubs don't have the number
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: one farm system. Yes, some of these trades like will
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: have to hurt, Like that's the the idea, But I
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: think they have enough to be credible in just about
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: any conversation, particularly when you include a Matt Shaw once
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: he's healthy, or if you can discuss like I don't
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: think they're going to trade Moistus Biasteros, but teams will
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: have to listen, you know, if you're if you're that
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: open minded, and there are if you're structuring a deal,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: you know, you can kind of go longer with Jefferson
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: ROAs you can give an immediate everyday player in a
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Matt Shaw. And obviously there are you know, kind of
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: degrees within those ranges later on pitching. But you never
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: know what another team's model or scouting group might say.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I think the Cubs, if another team is dead set
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: on getting pitching, the Cubs are just like at a disadvantage.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: But there are other ways to sort of compensate to
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: a degree for that.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also important to remember, like when we
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: talk about you know, like a maybe a mistrade like
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the Michael Soroka trade, Eli Morgan trade, like the prospect
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that you gave up Ronnie Cruz and Alphone's seen Rosario
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: they may never become good major leaguers. I think the
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: issue you have with those trades is you didn't get
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the value of what those like Ronny Cruz is more
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: valuable now Rosario is more valuable. Now you can get
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: better players. Do you want to What you want to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: do is trade even if you don't love the prospect,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you want to make sure you're maximizing their value. So
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: you know, that's why when I say, like, Jackson Wiggins
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: is available, well, do the Cubs love him? Do the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Cubs think like or do they think like, maybe this
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: is his best value and he's a reliever in the
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: long run though. Those are the types of decisions they
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: need to make over the coming weeks. All right, let's
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: take a quick break and kind of talk about why
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: they're going to have to make these moves and be
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: so open minded about who's available in the system.
• 25:14
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• 26:14
  Speaker 1: So, Patrick, we got we got updates on everybody's health.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Jamison Tyne is expected to be activated before tonight's game
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and pitch and start for the Cubs. We're recording on Monday.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: By the way, outside of that, it wasn't like imminent
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: returns for anyone. You know. Edward Cabrera I think is
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: a few weeks away. Still, I'm probably missing some other names,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: but the next name I was thinking of is Daniel Palencia,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: which essentially amounted to a setback, like he's not you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: he doesn't sound like he's coming back real soon. Like
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: it sounds like he'll be back, but it's not imminent. Uh.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: That puts a lot August. Yeah, Yeah, that puts a
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: lot of pressure. Yeah, that puts pressure on the bullpen.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: That push pressure on the starters. They need innings. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I asked Chad about the idea of like is it
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: as simple as you know, are you sticking to your
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: outgetters idea or do you need to go get a starter?
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And I was actually a little surprised by his answer
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: because he's like, you know, we yes, we love outgetters
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: that you know, you don't want to over complicate things
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes and you just need to get the twenty seven outs.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: But you know, councol doesn't want to burn through these
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: bullpen arms. You can't do that. You need guys that
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: can get you eighteen twenty one outs. We saw like
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: it was a ten nothing game yesterday Sunday against the Twins.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: At one point it was ten nothing. I believe in
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and shoulda Monaga went seven innings because that's valuable, Like
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: he was, he was he wasn't wasting a lot of pitches.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: It's not like they sent out there for one hundred
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and twenty pitches. It was sub one hundred pitches and
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: he gave them seven innings. That's important. You want starters
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: that can do that. Can he go out there and
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: get the eighteen twenty one out guy? That remains to
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: be seen. But I thought it was interesting that he
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: didn't just say, like, look, we need to get improve
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the pitching. Doesn't matter how many outs we get from
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the guys we acquire.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was surprised by that one as well. That
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: quote jumped out to me and I think illustrates how
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: aggressive this front office is going to be just in
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: terms of getting pitching. Maybe it's not a frontline starter,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: but they want someone who can provide length. And the
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: other piece of that was Plentcia. Like when we were
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: in Cincinnati right for the All Star break, you know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: he was packing up to go to Arizona for the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: All Star Break with the idea that you know, maybe
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: coming out of that he could start, you know, kind
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: of throwing with more intent and starting that ramp up.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And you know, Greig Council said, if we were looking
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: at early August. Now we're looking at kind of the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: middle of August, assuming they make progress and there are
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: no setbacks, which we've all seen how just unpredictable or
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: unreliable these timelines can be. So like they legit need
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: a late game reliever that you trust in high leverage situations.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: And I think kind of winning ninety plus games and
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: kind of finishing out this race is different than the
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: sprint in the postseason, Like you kind of have to
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: build your team different ways. And that's why I like, yeah,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: whatever started they get, maybe you're not asking you're not
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: going to ask them to throw seven innings in a
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: playoff game, but to get there and have just kind
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of the overall feel and tenor of your pitching staff
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: to be in a much better place, like you're gonna
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: probably have to get like one starter and one you know,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: dependable experienced reliever as kind of a bare minimum.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree you. I think you need to
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: get two relievers, one who's like no doubt going to
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: help your bullpen and like level things up. It's gonna
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: cost a lot, a lot in prospects. These aren't cheap editions,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: but I think you have to with Palencia kind of
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: a question mark because you just don't know what the
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: situation is going to be. You don't know when you're
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: getting Ben Brown back, if you're getting I mean, the
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: council seems to adamant that Ben Brown is coming back
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: this season. Don't know when. Hunter Harvey's not really a
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: part of the mix. He hasn't been all season. But like,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: these are the types of high end arms you'd want
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: in a bullpend. They don't have those guys right now,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: and it's really a tenuous situation in that bullpen. They've
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: done an admirable job. The numbers are aren't dreadful, but
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: it's just one of those things where it feels like
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a ticking time bomb, like you don't have enough high
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: end stuff in there right now. There's just not like
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: they're doing an admirable job. You need to get more
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: guys healthy, but the moves are going to have to
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: be made otherwise. I don't really know how you get
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: through this. And the reality is you want it like
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: this team is good offensively and elite defensively. You can
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: add a couple more pitchers to the group, hope for
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: fifty percent of the guys that are hurt to come
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: back and you feel good about the chances of making
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a run like that's that's how you have to look
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: at it. So we'll see what type of moves they
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: make and what they do going forward.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I think you still try to catch the Brewers. They
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: had a very Brewers weekend, which the Cubs gonna be
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: hard to close that gap. I think you also can't
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: like assume you're gonna win that wilde if you have
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: another ten game losing streak, if you have a bad stretch,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: you know, in August September. Like, there are enough teams,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: flawed teams, but uh, you know, clubs with some talent,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: some pieces that aren't gonna just go away. I have
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: a hard time seeing like the Washington Nationals staying power.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Who knows what the Padres are gonna do. They could
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: with Aj Prewler, they could do some weird stuff to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: reshape their team. But like Diamondbacks, Pirates, Marlins, I mean,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals are still sort of are still hanging around.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: And obviously the you know, the Phillies. Maybe they catch
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: the Braves like like who knows, but it's not like
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: an automatic It's not like their tickets been punched. Yet
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: they still as council says like have to keep stacking
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: up wins.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, this team can't kind of let up. There's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: gonna be pitching added a lot of pitching at it
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: in the next few weeks. And they're still, like I mean,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: they're cycling through the smaller moves, Aaron Sabali added over
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the weekend, they're they're looking for innings and outs however
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: they can get them. And like we said that you
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: want to make that big swing and get that starter
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: that can actually save your bullpen as well. Well, they're
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: gonna do make moves. They're gonna start coming at some
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: point the bigger ones. We'll see what the Cubs can
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: actually pull off. All right, Thanks so much for listening
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to everyone. This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: where Patrick and Iron top of all things Cubs. Thanks
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: for listening to every and watching everyone take care everything
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: to do. W I know, do they want to live