Latest / Scene Projects Sports Network / Derek Soukup of Sioux Links on Golf Media Evolution, Course Challenges, and the Spirit of the Game

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Derek Soukup of Sioux Links on Golf Media Evolution, Course Challenges, and the Spirit of the Game · Scene Projects Sports Network

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  56789101112.
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  Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
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  Welcome to the Scratch Project.
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  We have a interview today with a very, very interesting and special guest, Derek Suckup of
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  the SUOX Links publication, and I'm gonna bring him in right now.
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  How you doing, man?
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  Great, Alex.
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  Thanks to for having me on your show, and it's it's SUOX Links for those that aren't from
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  around the area.
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  S 00, it's kinda how it's pronounced, I guess.
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  You know, I grew up in Kansas, and I still don't understand half the Midwest stuff that we
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  pronounce.
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  You know, Wisconsin's even more crazy than it is in North in South Dakota here in North
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  Dakota's.
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  So, yeah, I get it.
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  Yeah.
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  Like, even Canada.
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  Canada's crazy depending on where you're at too.
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  Because, like, if you're any in any of the border states like New York or Michigan,
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  depending on what province you're near, you get some really funky names.
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  Like, I think there's a province or a town that's called, like, Saskatchewan or something
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  like that, and it's like, whoever named that was just mean.
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  Imagine having to put that on paperwork as residents.
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  As an l elementary student or whatever.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  So Sioux Links is based off out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
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  So there's it's a big it's a big name here.
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  People know Sioux City, kind of across the country too.
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  So, yeah, that's kinda where the the name Sioux Links came from.
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  Yeah.
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  So tell the people what it is that you do, like, what it is that you guys started.
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  And I as I come to understand, this is a milestone year for you guys.
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  Yeah.
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  It really is.
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  So, SUE Links has been around for thirty years, through our golfers guide.
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  I have one right here.
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  This is our thirtieth year, of doing the golfers guide.
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  So, yes, we've been around for thirty years as a publication that comes out each spring.
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  We print 20,000 copies that go to the five state area to golf courses, golf stores, and,
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  CVBs, and all those cities that the golf courses are in.
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  We cover a 160 golf courses, and we have, about 900 tournaments that we list online.
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  We have about 600 in the magazines.
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  People really use it as their resource when they're looking for tournaments in the area.
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  Along with that, we have the course information for a 160 courses.
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  All those courses have their updated pricing in there and yardage.
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  So if, you know, things change year to year, we contact all those courses and get updated
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  stuff.
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  And then we also have coupons in there too, which become really valuable for people and
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  save a lot of money.
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  Who doesn't like saving a buck on golf?
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  Right?
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  And then more recently, we have started some other initiatives.
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  We have a golf pass, the I 29 golf pass that kinda saves people money too on golf.
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  It's a great offer for people.
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  And then we've just grown through over the over the years, since I became the owner.
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  We've, expanded into social media a lot more, content creation on social media, and then
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  YouTube.
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  We just hit 1,000 subscribers, so now we're looking at 400 watch hours.
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  So we're looking for any subscribers that are interested in golf content, just local guys.
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  We're not we're not the big guys yet, but we're just we we're acting like it.
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  It's a start.
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  Yes.
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  It is.
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  I mean, I I've been doing this, the YouTube channel.
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  I have my own personal channel too, and I've been doing it for about nine months to a year.
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  And I just hit 252 subscribers.
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  So to see you guys hit a k, that's that's great.
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  But I hate to be the bearer of bad news.
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  You have you have the thousand subscribers now, which is one of the limits, which is good.
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  But starting very soon, that four hundred watch hours is gonna I think it's gonna go up to six
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  or 800.
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  Yeah.
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  And then it's either, like, you have to go from getting a million Shorts views to 10,000,000.
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  Yeah.
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  The Shorts is an an unbelievable how much they want you to to to see their
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  Well, it it's also and I don't mean to be disparaging to YouTube because they do a lot of
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  good things as a platform, but it's become very clear that they don't want small creators
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  anymore.
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  It's Yeah.
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  They're they're weeding them out, and I think that's gonna hurt YouTube in the long run.
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  But I also think it's gonna be good because it's gonna make room for someone to fill that
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  void of what YouTube used to be.
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  Like, me I don't know how long you've used YouTube.
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  I've used YouTube my whole life.
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  Like, basically, since I was on a phone, like, when YouTube was in 2007, I was 12 years old,
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  and I'm like, oh, this little site called YouTube.
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  I remember the first video was, like, some dude jumping off his house on a skateboard and,
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  like, going through a dumpster.
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  And I'm like, okay.
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  K.
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  This is great.
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  It's entertainment.
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  Right?
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  And, you know, my Yeah.
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  My first video I posted on my personal channel was me destroying a printer in my driveway, had
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  my son film it.
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  Yeah.
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  I was kinda kinda dumb, but it's got, like, 20,000 view.
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  I mean, I I don't remember how views it used to ask, but it's got a lot of views.
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  It's it's it's nuts.
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  But, yeah, now going
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  forward the printer is is what you're saying?
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  That's what I did.
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  Thought watch
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  the office and then just decide that that's what we're doing?
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  Well, it's office Space, actually, is what I mimicked it off of when those guys were
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  destroying that printer and their PC load letter.
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  I know Office Space.
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  Yeah.
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  That's that'd be great.
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  That that'd be great.
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  I remember watching that movie.
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  It because I know I know the I know the cover.
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  I can see it with the post it notes everywhere and
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  Mhmm.
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  The old squirrelly guy with the glasses who ends up burning down the company.
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  Like
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  Yep. Yep.
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  Yep.
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  I loved every minute of
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  that.
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  Classic.
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  Yep.
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  Cult classic.
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  It is a classic.
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  So you had mentioned that you guys are in your thirtieth year.
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  This is a banner year for you guys, and you are start like, so when did this start in terms of
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  you're like, okay.
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  We're on the main line, but now we're gonna go from main line to digital, to social media, to
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  YouTube, to Instagram, that kind of thing.
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  Like, where you know, when did that come into mind and you're like, you know, this is the
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  route we need to go?
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  Yeah.
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  For sure.
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  Mean, like, starting this out thirty years ago, I'll just give you a little back history.
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  You know, the that's before the Internet.
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  You had to look in the phone book to see if there's a golf course in such such town, and
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  then you could maybe plan a trip, call them, and get a tee time booked.
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  But since then, you know, a lot's changed.
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  The Internet has changed everything.
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  We have a we have access to everything in our phone.
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  And so we've we've went online with all that information's on there, our maps on there.
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  We do some storytelling there too on our website, so we got that listed.
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  We list some tournament, results for, this GPS tour we do.
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  And then, like you said, our social media, we I knew that when I took that over about, twelve
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  years ago that we need to be on social media more and more active on there.
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  So we feature a lot of the courses that are advertisers with us.
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  We have 40 advertisers and about 37, courses listed, advertised with us.
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  So we're always trying to sponsor them, pump them up, talk about stuff that they're doing,
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  and post photos.
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  I'm gonna stop you right there real quick because you mentioned something that was
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  interesting.
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  Mhmm.
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  So you do all these, like, you you get all these shots and stuff of these courses.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  So now that you're not just using still photos, but you're going into the social media aspect
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  of it, how are you getting those, shots now?
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  Like, I obviously, you guys have probably had to put money into camera equipment.
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  I'm assuming maybe some drones, stuff like that.
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  Yeah.
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  The infrastructure has changed a lot.
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  I mean, we basically started with just phones using our iPhone to take pictures when we're
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  out there, maybe run a little vertical video, just to post, but that that's kinda where it
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  started.
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  And then we went to, Sony cameras and GoPros for our, for our using the GoPro.
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  So that sounds we'll just do all GoPros depending on what the weather's like.
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  Damn.
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  I still need to get something for my cart cam.
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  I mean, I think it's changed a lot by having the cart cam in there because it kinda tells
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  you what's what's happening throughout your round, and it's there's really fun to talk on
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  those.
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  We we currently do not run a drone yet, but I would just I just bought a Sony FX three this
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  this spring.
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  It is the cat's meow.
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  It is beautiful.
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  Still trying to figure how to learn how to use it in all the areas we need to, but it it
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  produces some some astonishing, video.
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  Okay.
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  So that is amazing to hear.
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  But with you guys investing more into that infrastructure, like, explain the technical I I
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  guess not, like, all the technical, but explain, like, how you go from using a phone.
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  Because I'm I'll be honest.
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  I'm still using my iPhone 17.
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  It's got a great camera
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  Yep.
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  Tripod.
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  I still wish I had something for the cart cam, but, obviously, there's levels to this.
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  And when you are in the position that you're in and you have to get, you know, the course
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  descriptions in the in your publication and promote that on social media, whether that's
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  flyover.
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  That's the thing I was thinking of.
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  If you don't have drones yet, you're gonna have flyover shots when you do get drones.
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  It's gonna be amazing.
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  Yeah.
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  Exactly.
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  It's the one missing link right now, and what's just holding me up is, you know, we're
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  producing content, you know, all the all the deer, running working on the magazine in the
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  winter months, but I just need to get take that drone license test and just get it get it
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  going.
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely.
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  Because that would just like People love the Brian Bros and FP for that.
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  Right?
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  No.
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  I'm just saying.
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  Yeah.
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  It doesn't gonna be long.
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  They're gonna do a long drone videos, but just something in there just really elevates the
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  makes the course look better.
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  And that's what we're all about trying to promote those courses and just show show them
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  off to people.
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  Because a lot of people just pay play the same course, you know, every year.
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  Maybe they get one or two other rounds that are done with the course.
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  Yeah.
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  Hands up here.
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  And we it's hard it's actually hard for us to golf because we're golfing on so many different
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  greens that it's hard to pick up the green speeds because we're just everywhere.
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  We're just but we wanna do that.
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  We're just showing off every course that people haven't been to before.
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  You might find a new
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  hit why they made putting greens.
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  So you know?
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  And Yeah.
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  Then you realize just how unrealistic the speeds are on their putting greens Putting
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  greens.
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  To their actual greens.
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  You got that right.
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  I thought that's happened before in video before you get out there and go, well, this
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  isn't anything like the putting green was.
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  It's faster.
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  Happens to you more times than not, actually.
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  Right.
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  Yeah.
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  So it's like kinda hurts.
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  Does it even help to do any putting there?
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  So
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  it probably hurts.
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  Yeah.
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  We used to do a video recently where I was trying to figure out as a new course for me,
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  and it was a little slower than we typically play, and it took me about three to four holes
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  to kinda get that speed figured out.
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  But once you do, then you're you're kinda golden.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  I agree with that, but I also disagree because speed is one thing.
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  But then when you're playing so many new courses, like, I'll I just played a new course
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  for the first time in probably a year.
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  I played the Hesperia Golf Course, which used to be an old PGA rated course.
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  Okay.
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  And, if you see me looking over to my left here, it's because my cat is freaking out
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  chasing her tail, and it's quite funny.
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  But
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  Not a cart cam, but a cat cam.
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  Do it.
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  Do it.
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  Your tail.
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  It's all puffed up.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  She's thinking about it.
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  She's thinking about it.
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  She's shy.
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  Let's see.
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  Oh.
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  Oh.
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  Oh, no.
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  Oh.
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  Oh, cat cat.
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  Oh, that's a hair tie.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  There we go.
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  Got it.
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  Yeah.
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  Alright.
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  Cat cat.
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  In circles.
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  Hard to concentrate when that's going on.
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  Oh, oh, yeah.
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  I mean, I caught it out of the peripheral because her tail's all puffed up.
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  When her tail gets all puffed up like that, that's when you can see all the little stripes
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  on there.
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  We call her a little raccoon tail.
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  Oh, cute.
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  Anyway, back to the golf.
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  But, I mean, going into this, I was, like, putting I didn't even putt on their putting
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  green because I was like, you know what?
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  I've never had to putt on the putting green, and it'd been accurate.
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  So I go to this new course, and it took me about six holes to get the speed.
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  But the reason it was so hard to get the speed was because the undulations of the green as
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  well is, like, it there's levels to greens.
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  Okay?
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  Yeah.
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  I went to a municipal course, Apple Valley, which used to be a pro course.
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  So they have a little bit faster greens, but they are a little flatter since it's a little
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  older.
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  It's 75 years old.
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  Yep.
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  K?
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  And then I went to PGA the PGA course in Hesperia, which they stopped using in the late
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  nineties, early two thousands, but it is very long.
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  It's got four tee boxes.
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  It's reds, whites, blues, and then the tips, which are the black rocks.
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  And it's about 7,600 yards from the tips.
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  Woah.
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  Yeah.
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  And from the whites, it's about 6,900 yards.
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  Wow.
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  That's insane.
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  Yeah.
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  Anyway, I get on these greens, and you tap them.
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  You breathe on it.
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  Right?
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  And I've got a cobra putter.
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  I've got a three d printed putter.
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  Oh, see.
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  And it just takes off.
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  Like, you barely touch it.
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  Boom.
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  Takes off.
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  Now here's the worst part.
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  I get the speed down by hole six.
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  Right?
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  And then as I start approaching the back nine, the undulations of the green start to become a
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  problem because I'm literally looking at greens that have white spots on them, and you think,
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  oh, it's dead grass.
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  No.
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  It's hills in the green.
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  Like, it's the slopes on the green.
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  Yep.
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  And I'm like, not only is this fast, but now I gotta figure out where this is gonna turn.
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  Yeah.
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  We have a course here, that's newly opened about probably four or five years ago called
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  Landman Golf Club.
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  If you haven't heard of it, it is epic, and it's the same way.
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  It's got so many hills on it, and people kind of complain that it's they're just so hilly.
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  They're hard to a four putt is not out of the question on those because of all the all the
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  movements they have.
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  Bro, six putts aren't out of the question on some of these.
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  You're probably right.
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  Like, I'm not even kidding.
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  So, like, I played.
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  Right?
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  And I watched the because we were playing in a little tournament thing, best ball.
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  And I watched this guy putt, and he missed the hole by an inch and watched his putt proceed to
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  he was probably taking, like, a six foot putt.
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  And I proceeded to watch his putt roll out about eight more feet.
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  Yeah.
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  Further out than when he started.
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  Ugh.
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  I hate that.
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  And he could've breathed on that ball.
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  It took off that much.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And that's the and I feel like that's the other issue too when you go to these different
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  courses with these different green undulations is you don't know what's uphill and downhill
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  sometimes.
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  It's not always obvious.
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  We I like to look at the landscape around.
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  You know?
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  I was like, oh, it's a hill over here.
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  There's there's water over here.
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  It's like, well, obviously, it should go this way.
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  Not always the case.
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  I try to get better about pacing it off, know my distance, and then go look at it from the
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  other side.
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  But
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  All I'll say is if you've ever played a Pete Ross or a or a sorry.
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  A Pete Dyer or a Donald Ross, just Yeah.
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  Just you're in for as a golfer, it's gonna be a beautiful course.
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  You're gonna love it.
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  But your scorecard's gonna go through hell.
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  Played a
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  couple of dyes, and they are they are amazing.
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  But, yeah, they're really complicated.
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  And I I actually wanna play some more because I'm I just I just love love what he has got
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  going on.
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  But maybe don't look at the scorecard so much at the end of the round.
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  Dai is mostly known for his scenic, the still challenging courses, but Dai was a par three
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  guy.
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  Like, his par threes are brutal.
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  Sure.
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  Donald Ross is a sadist.
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  He's a mean man.
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  You go you go away.
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  He looked
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  at Pete Dye, and he said, okay.
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  Watch this.
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  Watch this.
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  See what I could do.
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  Well, it's sometimes it's like the seeding lines they give you.
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  It's like, it looks like this is where you should hit it, and that's not where you should
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  hit it at.
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  There's so many not only greens, but fairways and approach shots on a Ross or a die course.
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  And you'd think, k.
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  If I hit it this way, it should turn that way, and it'll do the exact opposite of what you're
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  thinking.
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  And then you just sit there and you feel stupid afterwards.
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  That's where, you know, the pros get to play that those practice rounds.
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  That means a lot if you're gonna try to
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  Oh, yeah.
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  I have I bet those pros probably play, like, three or four practice rounds.
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  And on one of those rounds, I wouldn't be surprised if they hit, like, high eighties.
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  For sure.
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  Surprise.
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  Surprise.
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  This course is gonna make you its internal servant, and you are going to be serving hell.
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  Did I sign up?
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  You
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  know, sometimes I play golf, and I have a really bad day.
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  I get to, like, the eighth hole, and I'm like, I really paid money to do this.
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  I'm having a good time.
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  And then I make that 30 foot triple bogey, and I'm like, yeah.
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  I'll be back tomorrow.
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  You know?
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  It takes it all takes a good chip and a good putt.
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  You're and you're you're back.
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  You forget about it.
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  Had one of those you ever had one of those putts where it's like, obviously, it's not for
• 18:09
  birdie.
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  It's not for par.
• 18:10
  You're, like, really out there.
• 18:12
  It's like a nine.
• 18:13
  And you just, like, walk up to it, and you're just like, whatever.
• 18:16
  I did that, and I just drained a 30 foot putt, you know, last week.
• 18:24
  And I'm just like, figures.
• 18:26
  Yep.
• 18:27
  You just I'd never been more disgusted.
• 18:30
  Yeah.
• 18:30
  You're kinda you're kinda mad by it, aren't you?
• 18:32
  It's like, wait.
• 18:32
  How how did this happen?
• 18:34
  How did we get to this point where you gave me that one?
• 18:36
  Doesn't even matter.
• 18:39
  Yeah.
• 18:40
  The golf as they say, the golf gods giveth,
• 18:43
  but the golf gods take it.
• 18:45
  Yeah.
• 18:45
  They love to take it.
• 18:46
  And your sanity is, the main currency.
• 18:51
  It's all I'm gonna say.
• 18:52
  She going.
• 18:54
  So outside of the publication and what you guys are doing with your digital footprint now and
• 19:00
  what you guys do, in terms of and I'm just gonna say this to be blunt.
• 19:04
  It sounds like an Atlas of courses for the Midwest.
• 19:07
  Yeah.
• 19:08
  It really is.
• 19:09
  And, like, we kinda I I kinda keep trying to grow out beyond our footprint even too because,
• 19:14
  like, we have a core audience of people that know us, and we're talking about these other
• 19:19
  courses that are in in our footprint.
• 19:21
  But we wanna show them other things beyond what what they've even what we've even told them or
• 19:27
  what they even know.
• 19:28
  You know, obviously, there's the Pebble Beaches of the world and all these other things, but,
• 19:32
  like, there's other places
• 19:33
  That's boring, though.
• 19:34
  Yeah.
• 19:35
  But, like, not too far away.
• 19:36
  Maybe in between those those destinations.
• 19:38
  Like, show me something in Indiana versus the hundredth time someone's mentioned Pebble Beach
• 19:44
  or Yeah.
• 19:45
  Totally.
• 19:46
  Bay Hill in Orlando.
• 19:47
  It's like come on.
• 19:49
  You gotta get a little more creative.
• 19:51
  For sure.
• 19:51
  The flip side of that is, like, going to the Iowa has the most nine hole courses of any
• 19:57
  state in the nation.
• 20:00
  And I've haven't even golfed half of the ones that are in our coverage area.
• 20:03
  There's always something unique to find in some of these little nine hole, courses and towns.
• 20:09
  So I like to find the beauty in in those ones too.
• 20:13
  So there's a lot of sand green golf courses around here too.
• 20:16
  Most people don't even know what that means.
• 20:18
  So we've done a few videos on that just to show show that side of it.
• 20:23
  I'm a sicko when it comes to golf, so I know what those are.
• 20:26
  They're popularized in Australia.
• 20:29
  Yes.
• 20:30
  That would be I've I've watched a lot of videos from Australians, and I would love to go down
• 20:33
  there.
• 20:34
  Some of the courses are a little mind boggling because some of the courses will have a very
• 20:38
  mixed match where they'll have green greens, and then with for everybody's, and they'll have
• 20:42
  sand greens.
• 20:43
  And it's like, why?
• 20:46
  That's that's diabolical.
• 20:50
  Don't understand like, me looking at a sand green, it it hurts my brain because it makes me
• 20:57
  feel like I'm purposely trying to hit it into a bunker.
• 21:01
  Good point.
• 21:02
  Great point.
• 21:03
  Like, why would I try to do that?
• 21:08
  Maybe it'd be the one time I get a hole in one because it'd be like, it has enough fluff to
• 21:12
  stop.
• 21:13
  And then again, I don't know.
• 21:14
  I've never got to play a sand green.
• 21:16
  I've seen them in videos, but have you played on sand greens?
• 21:19
  Oh, yes.
• 21:20
  So, actually, I grew up playing on sand greens there, and there there's different styles of
• 21:24
  grass of these sand greens.
• 21:26
  The one I played on was heavily oiled with, like, used motor oil.
• 21:29
  So it was actually brown.
• 21:31
  Sorry here.
• 21:32
  It's actually brown, dirt sand.
• 21:35
  Other ones
• 21:36
  Does that make it faster or slower?
• 21:38
  Slower.
• 21:39
  Some of them look more like gravel or just white, and those ones are fast, very fast.
• 21:47
  So Mhmm.
• 21:48
  Saw varieties That's
• 21:49
  a little trippy.
• 21:51
  You should come up to South Dakota.
• 21:52
  We should do it.
• 21:56
  I'll do it.
• 21:56
  I I may not be good at it.
• 21:58
  I'll do it.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 22:00
  Let's do it.
• 22:00
  I'd love to get I'm not either, but that's fine.
• 22:03
  That's all that matters.
• 22:04
  Pots get sandy.
• 22:05
  Let's go.
• 22:06
  I'll do the I'll do that whole video in swimming trunks if you want.
• 22:10
  I'll do that whole video in board shorts.
• 22:12
  Now we're talking.
• 22:14
  That'd be that'd be a fun video.
• 22:15
  We we do let's just go board shorts, little Hawaiian, like, you know, Hawaiian dress shirt
• 22:23
  Yeah.
• 22:23
  Sunglasses.
• 22:24
  Hell, I'll even throw in the the.
• 22:27
  Who cares?
• 22:30
  I'm game.
• 22:31
  That'd be a fun video.
• 22:32
  Make it make it
• 22:33
  so Okay.
• 22:34
  Back back to the thing, though.
• 22:35
  Like, putting, yeah.
• 22:36
  But how is it in terms of, like, an approach shot?
• 22:39
  Like, say, you're 100 yard yards out.
• 22:41
  Are you what's your strategy there?
• 22:43
  Are you trying to land it high, or are you trying to run it up?
• 22:46
  Like, how do you approach a sand green versus the regular green?
• 22:50
  On those ones that are heavily oiled and kinda, like, soft, like beach sand almost, high is
• 22:56
  good because then it'll just drop, and it just kinda makes, like, a a big impact.
• 23:00
  The ones that are, like, gravel, it look like a gravel road or your driveway, you wanna hit it
• 23:06
  short and just kinda let it roll or trickle on, unless it'll go off the back.
• 23:11
  So it's not even bump and run.
• 23:13
  It's bump and pray.
• 23:15
  Yes.
• 23:16
  Yeah.
• 23:17
  Absolutely right.
• 23:18
  You're not wrong there.
• 23:20
  Okay.
• 23:20
  So if you land it high on one of the faster spending ones, like the faster rolling ones
• 23:26
  Mhmm.
• 23:27
  Is that more would you say it's more compact on the fast ones to where it would bounce more
• 23:33
  high maybe?
• 23:34
  I think so.
• 23:35
  Absolutely.
• 23:35
  It because it is basically, like, hitting it trying to land it on your driveway because
• 23:40
  they're they're that hard, really.
• 23:42
  So great.
• 23:43
  I'm hitting into a cart path.
• 23:44
  Yep.
• 23:45
  Yep.
• 23:45
  So I could hit
• 23:46
  a beautiful shot and then watch the ball just go.
• 23:49
  Expect that big bounce.
• 23:51
  And it's it's hitting rock, it's irregular.
• 23:53
  You don't even know where it's gonna go.
• 23:55
  Left, right, back.
• 23:57
  Yeah.
• 23:59
  Yeah.
• 24:00
  So That
• 24:00
  sounds frightening because Alex I'm gonna say this.
• 24:03
  I was playing in my tournament last week.
• 24:06
  Right?
• 24:07
  And I had to hit out of some sand, and it was okay sand.
• 24:11
  It wasn't, like, you know, whatever.
• 24:13
  Yeah.
• 24:14
  But I hit this thing with about 54 degree wedge.
• 24:18
  That was the last time I ever hit this wedge because I traded those wedges in the next
• 24:22
  freaking day.
• 24:24
  I had them for six months, and I'm over it finally.
• 24:26
  I traded in my Mizuno Pro t ones for some Callaway Opus wedges.
• 24:31
  Okay.
• 24:32
  I need a little more weight, a little more control.
• 24:36
  I hit this 54 degree out of the sand, and I hit it flush, like, perfect
• 24:41
  Mhmm.
• 24:42
  And proceeds to fly out of the freaking bunker.
• 24:47
  Mind you, the green's still, like, 25 yards away.
• 24:50
  Yep.
• 24:50
  Flies out like I have just spanked it out of a pinball machine, and all I hear is I hear two
• 25:00
  clicks.
• 25:00
  And I'm like, what was that?
• 25:02
  Walk up to the green.
• 25:03
  I'm like, hey, guys.
• 25:03
  Anybody seen my ball?
• 25:05
  And the and and the lady's like, yeah.
• 25:06
  You just hit the fender of a truck.
• 25:08
  And I'm like,
• 25:10
  oh, no.
• 25:13
  I was like, did they stop?
• 25:14
  The guy the the they go, no.
• 25:16
  The guy's like, happens.
• 25:18
  And they just drive him by, and I'm like
• 25:20
  Oh my gosh.
• 25:21
  Okay.
• 25:24
  That's that's stressful.
• 25:26
  All I had to ask was one question.
• 25:28
  I just asked them.
• 25:29
  I, I asked the people on the green.
• 25:30
  I'm like, was it a beater, or was it a really nice truck?
• 25:32
  And they're like, oh, it was a beater.
• 25:34
  And I'm like
• 25:36
  He doesn't they didn't care then in the end.
• 25:39
  I had dog, I have $29 in my bank account right now.
• 25:43
  Okay?
• 25:43
  I don't have that kind of money if I hit a Mercedes or something.
• 25:48
  Let's be real.
• 25:49
  Which is a high probability when you're at the golf course.
• 25:53
  Right?
• 25:53
  Hitting a Mercedes.
• 25:56
  Yeah.
• 25:57
  This may not endear me to many golf courses, but I'm just gonna say it.
• 26:00
  Y'all are cowards.
• 26:02
  You don't protect the golfers enough.
• 26:04
  You really don't.
• 26:07
  Because you expect us to pay for stuff when your course is situated on major roadways like
• 26:12
  that.
• 26:12
  If you don't want us to hit it out of bound somewhere where there's the cart path, you need
• 26:17
  to put up a net.
• 26:18
  Yep.
• 26:18
  There's so many places that have big nets around them.
• 26:22
  You're like, well, obviously, you know what's happening here.
• 26:24
  So why why did you cram it into this little
• 26:27
  Because they're cheap, and they wanna make more money.
• 26:29
  It's the same reason in The United States that we still charge a ride along fee.
• 26:35
  It should be a solid cart fee, not per seat.
• 26:38
  Yep.
• 26:39
  Based on how many people are in the cart.
• 26:40
  Yeah.
• 26:40
  It's yeah.
• 26:42
  We actually list information in our in our book too.
• 26:45
  It's like if it's per person or if it's per cart or whatever.
• 26:50
  So yeah.
• 26:51
  And Yeah.
• 26:51
  It's per person in The United States.
• 26:53
  I don't run into a lot of courses where it's per cart.
• 26:55
  The per cart stuff's The UK a lot.
• 26:58
  Sure.
• 26:58
  Yeah.
• 26:59
  And it's, the prices go up every year.
• 27:01
  It's very expensive to play golf in general, really.
• 27:07
  To live now, but, you know Yeah.
• 27:10
  How deep you wanna go
• 27:12
  price of eggs.
• 27:12
  That's all I'm gonna say.
• 27:16
  Yeah.
• 27:16
  As you The price of gas The price
• 27:18
  of eggs.
• 27:19
  So Oh, don't I know it?
• 27:21
  I live in California, but oh my goodness.
• 27:23
  Yeah.
• 27:23
  But I bet it's a little higher there.
• 27:25
  Midwest, it's not nearly as bad.
• 27:27
  But I pay $5.89 a gallon for my gas.
• 27:30
  So Yeah.
• 27:32
  It we just hit $4 here.
• 27:34
  You know, it's late August here.
• 27:35
  In South Dakota?
• 27:37
  Yeah.
• 27:37
  Which is which is pretty high for us.
• 27:40
  Yeah.
• 27:41
  You hitting okay.
• 27:42
  I used to live in the Midwest.
• 27:43
  I used to live in Kansas.
• 27:45
  Okay.
• 27:45
  Yeah.
• 27:45
  When I and this was over a decade ago.
• 27:47
  The highest I ever saw gas in Kansas was $1.89 a gallon.
• 27:52
  Remember those days?
• 27:53
  And now I talked to my sister, and she's like, oh, yeah.
• 27:55
  Gas is, $4.17 a gallon.
• 27:56
  I'm like, the world's gone mad.
• 27:58
  Yeah.
• 27:58
  Because if it's $4.17 a gallon in the Midwest, that's, like, the equivalent of it was $9 a
• 28:05
  gallon up here.
• 28:06
  Yeah.
• 28:06
  Yeah.
• 28:08
  Yeah.
• 28:08
  Totally agree with that.
• 28:10
  Why?
• 28:11
  Wild World.
• 28:13
  Don't get me started on the price of a a bucket of range balls either.
• 28:17
  We don't list
• 28:18
  that.
• 28:18
  Don't get me those are They said they want me to pay $7 for 30 balls.
• 28:24
  They're making a lot of money on those.
• 28:28
  You know, something I said to my, to my local course manager, and he's really cool.
• 28:34
  I told him, like, if you're gonna make these memberships more expensive, you should throw
• 28:38
  in, like, a complimentary bucket of range balls per month to compensate for the extra money.
• 28:45
  Yep.
• 28:46
  And with my membership, I do have that.
• 28:49
  I get, like, three buckets a year, and then I have, like, other
• 28:53
  A year?
• 28:55
  Well, our year's six months.
• 28:56
  We're not we're not playing very long.
• 28:59
  But still
• 28:59
  But still
• 29:00
  I like I like where you're where you're going with that every month or every give me give me
• 29:05
  give me twelve twelve of them.
• 29:07
  I can use them whenever.
• 29:09
  Here's the way I see it.
• 29:11
  I think if you're a dedicated golfer and you were willing to pay a little bit of extra
• 29:15
  money, so, like, the way I I my membership's a $170 a month for walking seven days a week.
• 29:21
  No cart.
• 29:22
  Sure.
• 29:23
  I would be willing to pay $200 a month if I had, say, two a medium bucket of balls per
• 29:32
  visit.
• 29:33
  Mhmm.
• 29:34
  One per visit.
• 29:35
  Yeah.
• 29:36
  I go about four to five times a week.
• 29:39
  I'd make my money back right then and there.
• 29:41
  And you might not
• 29:42
  And all they had to do was give me some range balls.
• 29:45
  Yeah.
• 29:46
  I mean yeah.
• 29:47
  They're already picking them up.
• 29:48
  They're already in that process.
• 29:50
  So yeah.
• 29:51
  Why not just throw it in.
• 29:52
  Right?
• 29:53
  I mean, you're gonna make money off the range rats as well.
• 29:57
  Oh, yeah.
• 29:58
  They're there.
• 29:59
  So It's built in.
• 30:01
  But I'm always, you know, I'm always there on the on the side of always bring more package
• 30:08
  more to bring more value to something.
• 30:11
  If the cost has to go up, make it seem like, okay.
• 30:14
  Yes.
• 30:14
  We have to do this because of operational cost, but we're gonna try and throw something in for
• 30:19
  you guys so that we can at least say we're trying.
• 30:22
  Mhmm.
• 30:22
  And I feel like in the American golf scene right now, they've gotten very complacent, very
• 30:27
  lazy.
• 30:30
  Yeah.
• 30:30
  Well, that's maybe you know, golf's up so much now, and everybody just thinks that they can do
• 30:35
  what they want.
• 30:36
  And They think of it as liquid gold.
• 30:38
  Golfer doesn't come first anymore, pro perhaps.
• 30:41
  Yeah.
• 30:43
  Well But you could really set yourself apart by having customer service and having those perks
• 30:49
  that other places don't have.
• 30:51
  And a well maintained course, might I add.
• 30:54
  Yeah.
• 30:54
  Because I'll tell you right now, I went to this course, and I'll just call them out on it.
• 31:00
  Ashwood, Apple Valley, they just increased their prices again, and there's holes on the
• 31:06
  green.
• 31:06
  There's track marks there.
• 31:08
  And I'll be honest, if you guys don't want me to come golf at your course because of this,
• 31:13
  that's fine.
• 31:13
  It's not worth the money, and you obviously don't care about the course as much as you
• 31:18
  claim to.
• 31:19
  Yeah.
• 31:19
  So I'm just gonna put that out there.
• 31:21
  Sorry.
• 31:22
  That's a little personal thing for me, but I believe if you're gonna charge somebody $65
• 31:26
  around for 18 holes that your green shouldn't have it look like somebody drug a trolley down
• 31:35
  the center of it when in reality, that's the mower that they didn't set the level right, and
• 31:40
  they literally trenched the green.
• 31:42
  Oh, that's that's You
• 31:44
  You know how much pressure is applied to trench a green?
• 31:50
  What did they do?
• 31:53
  There were there is holes in the fairway from, water pockets from overwatering, so they burst
• 32:02
  into mud piles.
• 32:03
  Oh, boy.
• 32:05
  And I've seen this in a lot of and, yeah, it's kinda crazy as I'm going to these private
• 32:09
  courses that are either HOA owned or owned by a private owner, And it's starting to become more
• 32:17
  common in these private courses where they think, well, people are gonna come anyway.
• 32:21
  We just raise the prices and not take care of the lawn maintenance.
• 32:24
  Yeah.
• 32:25
  And now, you know, I I see courses that are run by the cities, like the municipals that look 10
• 32:31
  to 20 times better than some of these private courses, and they're a fraction of the cost.
• 32:36
  That's something.
• 32:38
  Yeah.
• 32:38
  You see a little bit of everything, don't you, and where the priorities lie then?
• 32:44
  Oh, absolutely.
• 32:45
  And it's kind of disheartening for me because I'm a when I say I'm a golf sicko, I am a golf
• 32:52
  sicko.
• 32:53
  I love this game.
• 32:54
  But it's not just the clubs and playing the game for me.
• 32:58
  It's the quality of the time that you experience.
• 33:03
  It's the quality of the course.
• 33:05
  It's just the ex everything bundles into that experience because it's not just about going
• 33:14
  out there and hitting it off the tee.
• 33:16
  It's about what you experience during your round.
• 33:19
  Like, what like, this this place that I played, Hesperia, felt like I was watch walking through
• 33:26
  an a park, like, a park slash forest.
• 33:29
  It was incredibly well maintained.
• 33:32
  It was beautiful.
• 33:34
  The mountain ranges, the greens were upkept.
• 33:37
  There was a couple holes in the fairways, but they were already flagged off, ready waiting to
• 33:42
  get repaired.
• 33:43
  Like, I I can't complain about that.
• 33:46
  And it was I'll admit, it was $65 for the round, but I was like, I can't say that I felt
• 33:53
  like I wasted the $65.
• 33:55
  Was it something I'll do every single week?
• 33:58
  No.
• 33:58
  But is it something I can come play every few months?
• 34:00
  Absolutely.
• 34:01
  And it's a wonderful course.
• 34:03
  Their hospitality was bar none, and you felt welcome there.
• 34:08
  And I think that's a huge part of the community, especially within golfers that a lot
• 34:14
  of people don't appreciate.
• 34:15
  And I think a lot of people don't understand how social golf really is.
• 34:19
  They think it's just, you know, go drink beer with your friends, and, obviously, that's an
• 34:25
  aspect.
• 34:26
  But there's a lot of people who bond over the sport because we're into the weirdest stuff
• 34:32
  about it, like shaft adapters or club head, lead tape.
• 34:37
  Like, you got the same case displaying golf balls that I do.
• 34:42
  How about that?
• 34:43
  Like Yep.
• 34:44
  Bang.
• 34:44
  There's there's something right there.
• 34:46
  Yep.
• 34:48
  And I feel like as someone who's gone to these courses, you may have an unique insight into
• 34:53
  this.
• 34:53
  Like, how do you feel with money and value versus, I guess how do you how do you project
• 35:04
  that in your articles or on your social media?
• 35:06
  How do you explain, like, hey.
• 35:09
  This is worth your time, and this may not be?
• 35:12
  Yeah.
• 35:13
  It's a delicate balance for sure because there are all different scales, levels of the cost.
• 35:20
  You know?
• 35:20
  There's some some courses that you can get on for less than $10.
• 35:25
  I'm not even kidding you to walk on.
• 35:27
  Now what's your expectation on those?
• 35:30
  Not super high necessarily, but guess what?
• 35:33
  You're golfing.
• 35:34
  You're out there golfing.
• 35:35
  You're out there with your buddies.
• 35:37
  Maybe it's a solo adventure you're doing by yourself just to try a different course out.
• 35:41
  So we try to set up that expectation.
• 35:44
  You know, when we do these the videos that we do, of those sand green courses, the one I'm
• 35:48
  thinking of in particular here in South Dakota doesn't have a clubhouse.
• 35:52
  Got a drop box to put your money in.
• 35:54
  There's just one picnic shelter that you can sit under in case it's raining or the there's
• 35:59
  hail.
• 36:00
  That's it.
• 36:00
  Your amenities are pretty low.
• 36:03
  But I was the only one on that course that day.
• 36:06
  I was walking the whole thing by myself filming, and it was it was magical.
• 36:10
  So I don't know if you can put a price tag on that experience.
• 36:15
  And then you go to some of the other courses.
• 36:18
  There's a new private course that opened up here in Sioux Falls called Mapleton Golf Club.
• 36:23
  $300 around, for a guest fee now.
• 36:27
  Mhmm.
• 36:28
  Yep.
• 36:29
  We golfed that last fall.
• 36:31
  I what?
• 36:36
  Yep.
• 36:38
  Are you kidding me?
• 36:39
  Nope.
• 36:40
  Nope.
• 36:40
  That exists here.
• 36:41
  Me this course was designed by somebody notable at least.
• 36:44
  Yeah.
• 36:45
  Yeah.
• 36:46
  Yeah.
• 36:47
  It it it is.
• 36:48
  And he's an up and comer on his own, but he's been, with with others in the past.
• 36:53
  But it's it was a fun experience.
• 36:55
  It was, walking on a new course, you know, it's aluminum for a month, is is a different
• 37:02
  experience to to see it for the first time.
• 37:04
  And it was, like, you know, it's within the with it's it's it's close to Sioux Falls where
• 37:09
  you can actually see the buildings in downtown.
• 37:11
  So it's like this land's been sitting here this entire time and just getting developed into a a
• 37:15
  course.
• 37:16
  That's that's a kind of a special special experience or to be able to to do that.
• 37:20
  So there's just all these different ranges from, you know, the middle ground to the low
• 37:24
  the low ground, you could say, and then this these ultra elite, places.
• 37:30
  Absolutely.
• 37:31
  I guess I might come off as a little bit, posh when it comes to those because I firmly believe
• 37:38
  that outside of a PGA course that has real history, that no round should be above a $100
• 37:47
  ever.
• 37:48
  And it's it's crazy, though, because, like, we we covered the Black Hills Of South Dakota too,
• 37:52
  Mount Rushmore, Crazy Horse Monument.
• 37:55
  Sturgis was just there.
• 37:57
  The courses out there are all over $100 during the summer months, you know, during their peak
• 38:01
  season peak times, so they can do by dynamic pricing.
• 38:05
  So that's kind of the expectation anymore now for those courses, that that's what you're
• 38:11
  gonna pay.
• 38:11
  And I try to bring it down to everybody else's level because, like, we get to play those at a
• 38:17
  discount or we get them for free because they're advertisers with us.
• 38:20
  Not something you could just go do on a weekend.
• 38:22
  That's something you might have to save two or three paychecks for.
• 38:26
  And before I was, you know, the owner of Zulinks, I really didn't didn't get to
• 38:31
  experience those things.
• 38:32
  So I've I try not to, you know, take it lightly what we get to do, but I also don't wanna, you
• 38:38
  know, hey.
• 38:38
  Look at us.
• 38:39
  You know, what we're doing.
• 38:40
  You know, you're never gonna get to do this.
• 38:41
  So we try to just approach it in a a humble way, just showing off what
• 38:46
  It's a fine line, though, because even intentionally, if you're trying to be, you
• 38:52
  know, just information, like, you're just trying to be a, you know, person who goes, hey.
• 38:59
  This is just information on the course.
• 39:01
  Yeah.
• 39:02
  This is
• 39:02
  an info dump for you.
• 39:04
  Obviously, it's not for everyone that can go every weekend.
• 39:07
  This is something you might have to make into, like, a trip.
• 39:10
  That's one way to word it.
• 39:12
  And I could see how people can kinda get, like you know, they're like, oh, man.
• 39:16
  These guys are getting to go play all these courses and kinda being posh about it.
• 39:21
  It can get turned off.
• 39:22
  I mean, even, like, when the Mapleton Mapleton opened here, private course, people are all,
• 39:26
  like, going, well, great.
• 39:27
  And we posted about it.
• 39:28
  They're like, great.
• 39:28
  It's private.
• 39:30
  We need another public course.
• 39:31
  Like, yes, we do.
• 39:32
  Well, there's actually one in in the works being planned, nearby here too.
• 39:36
  So but that's it's it's hard to balance that.
• 39:39
  You know?
• 39:40
  We have people like, well, great.
• 39:41
  I just I'm not gonna be able to ever play there.
• 39:44
  I was like, well, maybe you might.
• 39:45
  Maybe you might be able to.
• 39:46
  Just, cross your fingers.
• 39:50
  Yeah.
• 39:50
  And, I mean, that's a whole another discussion to have, though, in terms of dynamic pricing.
• 39:56
  In other words, price gouging.
• 39:59
  I'm sorry.
• 40:00
  That's all dynamic pricing is is price gouging.
• 40:02
  Yeah.
• 40:05
  I'm very consumer friendly.
• 40:06
  I'm sorry.
• 40:07
  I did.
• 40:07
  I'm very consumer friendly.
• 40:09
  And most of the world is like that.
• 40:11
  You're not alone.
• 40:13
  But I just feel like it's not the high prices, though, like, I know that golf has kind of
• 40:18
  always been an old boys game, and I feel like that's kind of been shifting.
• 40:22
  But even back then, the prices weren't that bad.
• 40:24
  No.
• 40:26
  No.
• 40:27
  It's a it's it's a byproduct of it being popular now, really, I think.
• 40:32
  And I guess from my perspective, it's like the courses are they're trying to protect
• 40:38
  themselves a little bit.
• 40:39
  Some places, even these small courses, like, we don't want any outsiders coming in.
• 40:44
  We we're super busy.
• 40:45
  We our membership likes the busyness we have.
• 40:49
  They don't want it to get any busier, so they don't need to work with us to make it to
• 40:53
  advertise anymore.
• 40:54
  They're just comfortable, and their financials are must be working out okay to make to allow
• 40:59
  that to happen, which is which is great.
• 41:02
  So you just kinda gotta okay.
• 41:03
  You're fine.
• 41:04
  We're fine.
• 41:05
  And then just, you know, allow it to happen.
• 41:07
  Bit of a juggling act.
• 41:09
  Yeah.
• 41:09
  For sure.
• 41:10
  And, like, you know, we're just here to promote and just, get the word out about you guys, but
• 41:13
  then they if they don't wanna do, you know if their membership's happy with what they got and
• 41:18
  they're they're fiscally okay, then good deal.
• 41:23
  I'll tell you what, Derek.
• 41:25
  Sounds like me and you need to take a little golf trip and film some stuff.
• 41:29
  I would love to do sounds like to me.
• 41:30
  I would love to do that.
• 41:32
  That would be fantastic, Alex.
• 41:34
  Absolutely.
• 41:35
  I need to see some of these sand greens.
• 41:37
  And, I'll be honest, the most expensive course I played on was this last course at $65.
• 41:43
  So I am not even close to and I I thank my grandmother for that.
• 41:48
  She's a saint.
• 41:49
  Thank you.
• 41:51
  I haven't even gotten to play what you would, I guess, call a elite course, if you
• 41:57
  will.
• 41:57
  Sure.
• 41:58
  And it's kind of a shame because I do live in California.
• 42:01
  But as you may know, gas is expensive, and I live in the desert.
• 42:08
  So things are a little far away from me.
• 42:10
  But I'm not paying $695 in Pebble Beach, where there's also special conditions.
• 42:17
  If you go to Pebble Beach, you have to spend a minimum of $300 in their pro shop.
• 42:22
  Okay.
• 42:24
  Like, it's part of the thing.
• 42:25
  So, really, it says $625 for a round.
• 42:29
  It's a balance.
• 42:30
  A $925 deposit.
• 42:33
  Yep.
• 42:34
  That's what it is.
• 42:35
  Oh, it's a
• 42:37
  Which of some means is something I've been thinking about too.
• 42:41
  There was this Bob does sports episode where they were facing off against the team, and they
• 42:47
  didn't get to finish the round because it got dark.
• 42:50
  But the, entire episode where the course is is basically a hotel.
• 42:56
  It's a course slash hotel.
• 42:58
  It's a little expensive, but you know what?
• 43:00
  You're getting to stay on the course.
• 43:01
  You walk out your front door, and you're on a hole.
• 43:03
  That's And that's like, okay.
• 43:05
  I'll pay the money for that because you're making it an all encompassing experience.
• 43:10
  Yeah.
• 43:11
  It's not just, alright.
• 43:12
  Let me drive from home, get a golf.
• 43:14
  Like, I can come here, sleep, eat, play golf.
• 43:19
  And if I've got that kind of money, yeah, dude, I'm gonna spend that kind of money.
• 43:23
  Because when I get that kind of money, that's how I'm spending my money.
• 43:28
  No no ifs, ands, or buts.
• 43:30
  Nope.
• 43:31
  Can't disagree.
• 43:32
  A golf round, get me a good room, and get me a steak, and that's gonna be a great weekend.
• 43:37
  Enjoying it.
• 43:41
  Yes.
• 43:42
  And I don't think there's enough courses that, do that, like, when they have that high price
• 43:47
  point.
• 43:47
  It's just I don't mind the high price point for an elite course because a lot of these courses,
• 43:52
  there are elite courses.
• 43:53
  They are very, very well made and very well maintained.
• 43:57
  I don't question that.
• 43:58
  Yeah.
• 43:58
  The amenities are second to none, but I don't need a state of the art driving range with a
• 44:05
  track man.
• 44:08
  And I think that when they start doing all the extra amenity stuff like that, it's just
• 44:13
  inflation of price.
• 44:14
  Like, they're putting on more operational costs to stand out, but I don't think it's necessary
• 44:20
  because the average Joe Schmo who's got money, who plays, isn't even that good to begin with.
• 44:27
  We don't need track, man.
• 44:28
  Don't even care about the numbers.
• 44:29
  Don't need to know the numbers.
• 44:30
  You know?
• 44:30
  I'm just trying to get on the green, dog.
• 44:34
  Just wanna hit the middle of the fairway.
• 44:37
  Seriously.
• 44:37
  Come on now.
• 44:39
  But I feel like, I feel like golf has gotten a little too flamboyant with things just a bit.
• 44:47
  And I feel like we've kinda lost sight of the game a little bit.
• 44:52
  And I feel as someone who's been doing coverage of courses for thirty years, and you obviously
• 44:58
  are very invested in the game, do you feel like the game or at least the way that we handle
• 45:04
  things over here stateside at some of these courses, we've kinda lost the spirit of it a
• 45:09
  bit.
• 45:09
  And what do you what are your thoughts?
• 45:11
  Have we lost the spirit of the game a little bit?
• 45:14
  I mean, there's some aspects I think that we probably have.
• 45:20
  I'm probably in the 1% that doesn't see that.
• 45:24
  You know?
• 45:25
  I'm kind of an optimist, you know, to a fault almost, but there are some places that really
• 45:32
  embrace that well.
• 45:34
  We have a course here that I told you about the Landman Golf Club.
• 45:37
  They actually own another nine hole course that went under is undergoing renovations now to
• 45:42
  become a 12 hole course, which there aren't remaining 12 hole courses.
• 45:45
  This would be the first one around here.
• 45:47
  And it's kinda controversial.
• 45:49
  They are getting rid of all their golf carts.
• 45:51
  They are gonna be walking only.
• 45:54
  So that is what I would call truest old school golf because that's what I grew up, but not a
• 46:00
  cart.
• 46:01
  When I got a little older, we did have a cart, but I walked a lot.
• 46:05
  And
• 46:06
  No golf carts.
• 46:07
  God forbid we go and get some exercise.
• 46:09
  For sure.
• 46:10
  And they're they're so the membership isn't I've heard a couple people say they're not
• 46:14
  loving that part.
• 46:15
  They wanna be able to walk, and it's in it's up in three holes.
• 46:18
  You could do three, six, nine, or 12 so you can come back to the clubhouse each time.
• 46:22
  So just do six.
• 46:24
  Just do nine.
• 46:25
  I I kinda love the the format of it, and they're gonna be opening up a few of those
• 46:30
  holes this this fall.
• 46:32
  It's called Old Dane Golf Club if you haven't heard of it before.
• 46:35
  There's this, Landman was done by the same ones that did Sweetens Cove, the the designers
• 46:41
  there.
• 46:41
  So that's what made Landman so famous.
• 46:43
  And now Will Anderson, and, he's got another, designer that's redid the the old course.
• 46:50
  So they're kinda they're kinda putting their foot in the ground saying this is what we're
• 46:54
  gonna do.
• 46:54
  We're doing it different.
• 46:56
  And it's unique.
• 46:57
  It is unique.
• 46:58
  Yep.
• 46:58
  And it's
• 46:59
  That's all I think.
• 47:00
  It's original too.
• 47:01
  Not because we we have a track man.
• 47:03
  It's not because we're doing this or that.
• 47:05
  We're making it more just about old school golf in that regard, and that's what they love about
• 47:09
  it.
• 47:10
  Yeah.
• 47:11
  It's original, not in the sense of, like, it's something new, but, no, it's something novel.
• 47:15
  It's We're not reinventing the wheel.
• 47:16
  Back to basics.
• 47:18
  Yeah.
• 47:19
  So that's pretty cool.
• 47:22
  I I I I agree.
• 47:24
  Now what is you say you're an optimist.
• 47:29
  You got that 1% in you.
• 47:31
  What is the optimistic, you know, viewpoint, say, five years from now?
• 47:38
  Do you think this boom is still gonna be going five years from now, or do you think we're
• 47:41
  gonna fall back down to earth a little bit?
• 47:43
  Oh, it's a great question.
• 47:44
  I mean, I think there's so much youth golf happening right now that I think the next
• 47:48
  generation who's, can't even drive a car yet, they're gonna probably fuel this next the next
• 47:56
  boom.
• 47:58
  People like, GoodGood and Grant Horvath, they're gonna propel that generation too.
• 48:05
  I just seen an article that said something that most youth I think it was youth that says they
• 48:11
  don't even remember Tiger Woods, and they didn't grow up with Tiger Woods.
• 48:15
  He's not playing right now.
• 48:16
  But they're looking at those guys, like Grant Horvath and, Garrett Clark as, like, they're
• 48:21
  they're role models now.
• 48:22
  So that's gonna be the shift going forward.
• 48:25
  I think that's gonna change, golf in general.
• 48:29
  And as the the boomers and the golden eras start to, you know, get out of golf because
• 48:36
  they can't or they they pass on, That's gonna be the future, and we gotta make sure we're,
• 48:41
  you know, taking care of them.
• 48:44
  You feel like with it shifting more to Gen x, millennials, and Gen z over the next ten to
• 48:50
  twenty years, you feel like golf is gonna be in a better place than it was, or do you think
• 48:56
  it'll be I don't know.
• 48:59
  I wouldn't say worse, but different.
• 49:03
  I think it's definitely gonna change it.
• 49:05
  I mean, you already been hearing about it through my generation and Gen X.
• 49:10
  People saying, oh, you can't have music on the course.
• 49:12
  You know, that was always a big thing when we were gonna make sure you have a collared shirt
• 49:15
  and tuck in your shirt and all that.
• 49:17
  I mean, that stuff's already kinda changed now.
• 49:20
  And what's
• 49:21
  God forbid we wear a moisture wicking T shirt.
• 49:23
  My gosh.
• 49:24
  I don't wanna wear cotton.
• 49:26
  I don't like wearing collars.
• 49:28
  I'll be honest with you.
• 49:29
  I don't really like collars because sometimes they chafe and clip my neck.
• 49:33
  Yeah.
• 49:33
  And they
• 49:34
  But I've got these bladed collars and these polos that Puma does, and they're comfortable.
• 49:38
  But Yeah.
• 49:39
  I can understand it.
• 49:40
  It's a it's a comfort thing.
• 49:42
  Yeah.
• 49:43
  So, I mean, I think it'll definitely change, and some people won't won't like it.
• 49:47
  That's for sure.
• 49:47
  But I I don't I don't see us going backwards.
• 49:49
  I see us, keeping the same momentum we have for next five years.
• 49:54
  I mean, long as you're not playing golf in your pajamas, I don't really think it's a because I
• 49:59
  yeah.
• 50:00
  We don't want that.
• 50:01
  No.
• 50:02
  But you know what I do like to see, though?
• 50:04
  One of my favorite golfers is Ricky Fowler Mhmm.
• 50:07
  Or Ian Poulter.
• 50:08
  You go and watch those guys.
• 50:10
  Those guys were personality.
• 50:11
  Yeah.
• 50:13
  And there's not enough of that in golf.
• 50:16
  And I think that's why kids gravitate to a good good to a Bob does sports to a, you know, the
• 50:25
  Kiwi boys.
• 50:26
  You got the New Zealand, the lads.
• 50:27
  Like, you got all these people that are going the YouTube route, and it's kind of funny too
• 50:35
  because you listen to a lot of these guys on the golf channel and stuff.
• 50:39
  Like, GoodGood's got a tournament now on the PGA, and they have, like, this little thing.
• 50:45
  And you can kinda tell in the way that it's broadcasted by some of the old guys, you know,
• 50:50
  in the old media that they think it's kinda stupid
• 50:55
  Yeah.
• 50:55
  Even though it's brilliant, and they show it.
• 50:59
  And I'm like, that's another thing I think that really needs to change about golf more than
• 51:03
  anything, at least in the media space and how we advertise it and, like, how we cover it is I
• 51:10
  think a lot of these announcers gotta go.
• 51:12
  And I don't need to hear somebody whispering the entire time.
• 51:17
  And if they say, well, we're out on the course and they're taking their shot, it's like, k.
• 51:22
  Then talk after the shot.
• 51:24
  Yes.
• 51:25
  Don't interrupt it then.
• 51:27
  Don't interrupt it, but have some personality.
• 51:30
  Have some energy.
• 51:31
  Yeah.
• 51:31
  You're right.
• 51:31
  And, like, the, you know, the good good live events that they've been doing, it's
• 51:35
  Those are amazing.
• 51:36
  Yeah.
• 51:37
  It's it's it's a blend.
• 51:38
  You know?
• 51:38
  It's not it's not exactly what you're talking about, forward thinking, but it's it's it's
• 51:42
  advanced beyond a regular Let
• 51:45
  me ask.
• 51:45
  Have you heard of the grass league?
• 51:46
  Yeah.
• 51:48
  That is, like that's where I want pro golf to be.
• 51:51
  Like Yeah.
• 51:52
  I like the music.
• 51:53
  I don't think you need to blast it throughout the whole course like Liv did, but, you know, I
• 51:58
  feel like if these guys had the music and could wear what they wanna wear Mhmm.
• 52:04
  You'd see better performance from these guys because they're comfortable.
• 52:07
  Yeah.
• 52:07
  They're relaxed in the right environment then.
• 52:10
  Like, I wear arm sleeves, leg sleeves, athletic shorts, and a moisture wicking wicking athletic
• 52:19
  T shirt.
• 52:20
  Do I wear that because I wanna show up and be a slob at the course?
• 52:23
  No.
• 52:23
  But it gives me the most range of motion and flexibility to get my best swing.
• 52:28
  Yep.
• 52:28
  Makes sense.
• 52:30
  It's like, why wouldn't we wanna promote the best, you know, conditions for our athletes and
• 52:36
  for our youth to play this sport?
• 52:38
  Like, the more comfortable you are, the more inclusive a sport can be.
• 52:42
  I'm not saying show up in your Hello Kitty pajamas and slippers, but, you know, be
• 52:49
  comfortable.
• 52:50
  Just and I feel like when someone's comfortable, they're more relaxed.
• 52:53
  And when you're more relaxed, you play better.
• 52:56
  And when you play better, you feel better, and you make more friends.
• 53:01
  Be yourself is really what it comes down to for me.
• 53:05
  Absolutely.
• 53:06
  Because there's so many people that I feel like they put on the polo and they put on the
• 53:11
  khakis, and they just don't feel good about themselves when they do that because it's like,
• 53:16
  this is just I know when I first went golfing and I put on all the dress code, I was like,
• 53:24
  ew.
• 53:25
  I didn't pick it up for fifteen years after that.
• 53:28
  You know?
• 53:28
  I went intermittently, but now I'm obsessed with it.
• 53:31
  But my muni is very lenient, and they let me be in my T shirt that's an athletic shirt and like
• 53:39
  that, and they don't care.
• 53:41
  And I think that's the way it should be.
• 53:42
  Make it it's more approachable that way.
• 53:44
  There's a lot of just, I wanna do a story on this sometime about, a new golfer, the the
• 53:50
  etiquette, one.
• 53:51
  Two, it's intimidating coming into a clubhouse.
• 53:54
  What do I do?
• 53:55
  What am I supposed to do?
• 53:56
  What what's what's expected?
• 53:57
  How early should I show up?
• 53:59
  Do I need to practice?
• 54:01
  Do I need to putt, or can I just go right to I mean
• 54:04
  It almost takes the whole joy out of it?
• 54:06
  Yeah.
• 54:07
  I mean, it's I mean, to getting into it now, I'd be kinda scared and intimidated to to start
• 54:13
  golf.
• 54:16
  Yeah.
• 54:17
  I mean, I think the best place that you can start golf, though, is at your municipal course
• 54:23
  because they're the most welcoming.
• 54:25
  Yeah.
• 54:25
  And I think You've asked questions.
• 54:27
  Be a hot sizzling take.
• 54:32
  But I think that these elite courses outside of the PGA ones, a lot of these are gonna be
• 54:38
  abandoned probably in the next thirty years.
• 54:41
  Be curious to see, won't it?
• 54:44
  It will be because I don't I don't this I don't, I don't think that it's bad that they
• 54:49
  have these beautiful courses at the high prices, but I don't think they know how to sell
• 54:54
  themselves the correct way.
• 54:56
  Well, it's it's a tough model to maintain.
• 54:59
  And if the economy ever changes and things like that, things could things could go south.
• 55:05
  Well, I I honestly sometimes I feel like with how things have been the last couple months,
• 55:10
  I'm just waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop next.
• 55:13
  But I digress.
• 55:16
  True.
• 55:17
  Derek, I'm I'm gonna say this, man.
• 55:19
  I've had a lot of people on in the last, you know, couple months.
• 55:23
  I've had some interesting people on.
• 55:26
  You are one of the most interesting people I've had on as well because you're on the
• 55:29
  publication side, not strictly the I have my own podcast or I have you like your you are
• 55:36
  what we'd like to call a road map.
• 55:38
  You actually go out there and you give us that information about course yardages, new hazards,
• 55:46
  renovations they've made, new facilities.
• 55:49
  Like, you guys are I don't wanna say this, like, let me modernize this a little bit.
• 55:55
  I don't wanna say Atlas again.
• 55:56
  You guys are, like, our Siri almost.
• 55:58
  Like, we look at that thing and go, yeah.
• 56:01
  That's the course.
• 56:02
  Oh, that has a new hole.
• 56:04
  Oh, that's been renovated.
• 56:05
  Like, yeah.
• 56:05
  I don't think people realize how valuable of a service that is, but that now that you've
• 56:10
  switched it to your digital footprint and you can actually show us outside of still shots
• 56:15
  Yeah.
• 56:15
  How has that affected your business?
• 56:18
  Well, I mean, our core advertising, group has been solid for many years now, and we just keep
• 56:24
  bringing a few more on all the time.
• 56:27
  So it it's it's just kind of reinforced what we're doing, and that magazine is still really
• 56:33
  important to what we do.
• 56:35
  And the the courses value that too.
• 56:37
  So it it's if anything, it's just been expanding what we what we can do.
• 56:42
  I mean, we do, you know, course photography and videography for places as well.
• 56:46
  So, like, it's just it's kind of expanding, our services.
• 56:52
  So it's expanding them.
• 56:55
  Has it changed your perspective on the way you've done this job over the last thirty
• 56:59
  years?
• 57:01
  Yeah.
• 57:01
  Definitely has.
• 57:02
  I mean, it was it was more just a graphic design.
• 57:06
  All those other years creating something that looks good, on a single page in the golfer's
• 57:12
  guide, and now it's become, well, multimedia.
• 57:16
  It's the best way I can describe it.
• 57:17
  You know, we're putting the sights and sounds to these courses and to these places, you know,
• 57:23
  online.
• 57:24
  So it's it's a lot different.
• 57:27
  You ever been to a theme park that has, like, one of those 40 theaters?
• 57:31
  Like, they have that little show and they got the chairs that you like, feel the bumps and
• 57:35
  stuff?
• 57:36
  Yeah.
• 57:36
  There's
• 57:36
  airflow.
• 57:37
  That's kind of been the evolution of golf media and course advertisement over the last five to
• 57:43
  ten years is
• 57:44
  Totally right.
• 57:45
  Gone from the magazines and the PGA channel to Yep.
• 57:49
  YouTube channels and stuff.
• 57:52
  Even the even the PGA show and all that kind stuff has gone that route too to be more
• 57:56
  interactive.
• 57:57
  Are you gonna go to that?
• 57:58
  Are you gonna go to the super show?
• 57:59
  I haven't been to it or haven't been to one, so I'd I'd love to.
• 58:03
  I'm going I'm gonna try try tentatively to get in as media, for this upcoming one.
• 58:09
  Yep.
• 58:10
  And there's another guy that I'm meeting up with, Nate.
• 58:13
  And, I'm trying to get a couple more guys together so we can all go do, like, a scramble
• 58:18
  or something from all the different walks.
• 58:21
  That'd good.
• 58:22
  I'll be down.
• 58:23
  Let's do that.
• 58:24
  Yeah.
• 58:25
  Alright.
• 58:26
  We've we've yapped.
• 58:27
  We've covered.
• 58:29
  Is there anything that you would want to tell the people in terms of what makes I'm gonna try
• 58:36
  and get this right.
• 58:37
  Sue Links?
• 58:38
  Yes.
• 58:38
  Sue?
• 58:39
  Sue.
• 58:39
  Like, I'm gonna sue you?
• 58:41
  Pretty much.
• 58:42
  I hope
• 58:42
  you don't.
• 58:44
  Alright.
• 58:44
  Well, that still remains to be seen.
• 58:48
  I don't see any trucks around.
• 58:49
  We're good.
• 58:49
  Alright.
• 58:50
  I would say with the SULINX Golf, SULINX everything that you guys do with the multimedia
• 58:58
  level, what is there in terms of what got you into golf, though?
• 59:03
  Like, was it this portion?
• 59:05
  Was it playing?
• 59:06
  Did you play a lot as kid?
• 59:08
  Like Well,
• 59:10
  I started playing before I was even five years old.
• 59:12
  My dad cut down a set of clubs for me, like, three clubs.
• 59:15
  I had a five iron and a, like, a wedge and a putter.
• 59:19
  So I started off from a very young age.
• 59:21
  But when my when I had my kids as a young young man, my twenties, I didn't golf for five years.
• 59:28
  So really kinda just fell out of it until I was working with the gentleman that owned the
• 59:33
  company before me and started working with him, and he I worked for for golf.
• 59:38
  So he paid me in golf, which was great.
• 59:41
  So then I could go out with my son and my daughter to kinda get them into the game and
• 59:45
  get me back into it.
• 59:46
  And now it's all I think about is is golf every day.
• 59:51
  I wake up thinking about golf.
• 59:52
  It's maddening, isn't it?
• 59:55
  Kind of is.
• 59:56
  Kind of exciting.
• 59:56
  You're thinking about the shot.
• 59:57
  You're like, oh, man.
• 59:58
  If I had that new $600 putter, I definitely would've made that putt.
• 1:00:04
  Is that how it works?
• 1:00:05
  Oh, they they'd like to they'd like for you to believe that.
• 1:00:08
  You got the wrong club here.
• 1:00:09
  By all logic and understanding, we should be hitting our driver 400 yards off the tee by
• 1:00:14
  now.
• 1:00:15
  Right.
• 1:00:15
  I'm
• 1:00:15
  waiting for tech that comes out every year.
• 1:00:19
  New golf balls.
• 1:00:21
  No.
• 1:00:22
  It's been a good run.
• 1:00:22
  I'm really excited, for what we do, and I'm excited just to do what I do every day.
• 1:00:31
  And that changes the way you do a job because I feel like when you love what you do, it doesn't
• 1:00:36
  even feel like you're working.
• 1:00:38
  Yep.
• 1:00:38
  Absolutely.
• 1:00:39
  Money is just you know, obviously, the money is great, and, you know, that's we gotta feed our
• 1:00:45
  families.
• 1:00:45
  But Yeah.
• 1:00:46
  When you do this, sometimes you feel like that's just the cherry on top.
• 1:00:51
  Get to do what you love versus sitting in a cubicle all day hating yourself.
• 1:00:56
  Exactly.
• 1:00:57
  Anybody who loves sitting in cubicles, I I apologize.
• 1:01:00
  I just you know, play your candy crush.
• 1:01:04
  Do your thing.
• 1:01:06
  Totally right, Alex.
• 1:01:07
  But
• 1:01:11
  give the people a little bit of a I don't know.
• 1:01:17
  I guess this would be good for you, road map of what you got coming up, some anything you'd
• 1:01:23
  like to promote, anything we can be looking forward to, where we can find you?
• 1:01:29
  Yeah.
• 1:01:29
  I mean, so our website, www.suelinks.com, it's got all of our course information on there as
• 1:01:35
  well as our stories and a bunch of our videos are on there too.
• 1:01:40
  One thing we're kinda working on this fall is a two man scrambles, series.
• 1:01:44
  It's part of a national scramble series that Twin Cities Golf is promoting.
• 1:01:49
  So we're gonna be doing some of that this fall and over the winter in our simulator leagues.
• 1:01:53
  And beyond that, we have, a golf pass that'll be coming on sale for 2,027 coming up here in
• 1:01:59
  November.
• 1:02:00
  So look for that.
• 1:02:01
  We have 18 courses on that, to save you money on golf.
• 1:02:05
  And YouTube.
• 1:02:06
  So we got quite a few more YouTube videos for the year ready to, edit and put out there for
• 1:02:12
  you.
• 1:02:12
  So hit like and subscribe on our SULINX golf channel.
• 1:02:19
  That's awesome.
• 1:02:21
  That is great.
• 1:02:22
  That's very succinct.
• 1:02:24
  Way to get from point a to b to c on that road map.
• 1:02:29
  We're trying, dude.
• 1:02:30
  My friends, this was a great first interview because I feel like we had a I gotta have you
• 1:02:35
  on again.
• 1:02:36
  This was a lot of And I'll go get my swimming trunks, my Hawaiian shirt, and we gotta get
• 1:02:43
  some sand golfing on those greens.
• 1:02:45
  And I gotta I honestly, just for the hell of it, I wanna hit a flop shot with my 60 and see
• 1:02:50
  if I can bounce the thing higher than what I hit it.
• 1:02:54
  That would be funny.
• 1:02:55
  Challenge accepted.
• 1:02:57
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:02:58
  It's like, hit into a proper green or hit into a parking lot, which I've done, by the way.
• 1:03:05
  I have headed into a parking lot, by the way, on accident.
• 1:03:08
  I've done that too.
• 1:03:10
  No.
• 1:03:10
  And here's the worst part.
• 1:03:11
  When I headed into the parking lot, yeah, I aimed it right where I wanted it.
• 1:03:16
  It just went about 50 yards further than what I intended.
• 1:03:19
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:20
  Longer?
• 1:03:21
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:22
  I was like, I couldn't hit that ball any better.
• 1:03:25
  It
• 1:03:25
  happens.
• 1:03:26
  But, apparently, it was too much club because it so I was, like, 200 out, and I hit my seven
• 1:03:32
  wood, probably the best I'd ever hit it in my life, and proceeded to bounce it into the
• 1:03:36
  tennis court, which bounced out of the tennis court into the parking lot over the fence.
• 1:03:40
  And thank god I didn't hit any cars.
• 1:03:42
  Heads up.
• 1:03:45
  Almost killed the tennis player, though.
• 1:03:49
  Sad.
• 1:03:50
  Sad.
• 1:03:52
  Thank you so much for coming on, man.
• 1:03:54
  We've gotta get together at some point again.
• 1:03:57
  We gotta go do some scrambling or stroke play, something for the channel Totally.
• 1:04:03
  Or just the fun.
• 1:04:04
  Go find some places to just, I don't know, do like, I really badly I know I don't have the
• 1:04:09
  money for it right now.
• 1:04:10
  I wanna go do a Halloween special.
• 1:04:11
  That's what I'd like to do.
• 1:04:12
  That would be fun.
• 1:04:13
  We've talked we've talked about theme days and, yeah, hasn't come to fruition yet.
• 1:04:19
  Alright, man.
• 1:04:20
  This has been a great one.
• 1:04:22
  Thanks, Alex.
• 1:04:23
  You for being on the show.
• 1:04:26
  And before we get out of here, I just like to thank the guys over at Skunk Golf Company, look
• 1:04:33
  good even if your game stinks, for allowing us to have you on and giving us the opportunity to
• 1:04:39
  even have this be possible.
• 1:04:41
  I can't wait until the next time that we get to do this.
• 1:04:44
  I sent you a text message, so you have my number.
• 1:04:47
  So you don't even need to worry about using the app to schedule another interview with me.
• 1:04:52
  Just text me, and I'll make room for you.
• 1:04:54
  Beautiful.
• 1:04:54
  Sounds great, Alex.
• 1:04:55
  Appreciate it.
• 1:04:56
  Thanks so much.
• 1:04:58
  Anytime.
• 1:04:59
  This was Derek of the sue Sue Links.
• 1:05:03
  God.
• 1:05:03
  I gotta sue somebody.
• 1:05:04
  Gotta take a look.
• 1:05:05
  Mouthful.
• 1:05:06
  Couple times.
• 1:05:08
  You're there.
• 1:05:08
  Did I get your last name right, though?
• 1:05:10
  Sook, what is it is it suck up or Sukup?
• 1:05:13
  It's well, we pronounce it Soakup.
• 1:05:15
  So not another Soakup.
• 1:05:17
  Another tongue twister for you.
• 1:05:20
  Sue Sue oh my god.
• 1:05:22
  Sue Links and Sue Links.
• 1:05:23
  This was Derek
• 1:05:27
  Next time you'll
• 1:05:28
  know it.
• 1:05:28
  Of Sue Links.
• 1:05:32
  Asus.
• 1:05:32
  You are trying to take somebody's tongue out of their mouth, man.
• 1:05:37
  I digress.
• 1:05:38
  This is a laid back interview style that I have.
• 1:05:40
  Thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:05:42
  Guys, this was the Scratch Project.
• 1:05:44
  I'm Pods plays golf.
• 1:05:46
  This was my great guest, Derek.
• 1:05:48
  I'm not even gonna try and tell your last name again because the amount of butchering I've
• 1:05:52
  done, I could basically fill out an entire deli right now.
• 1:05:55
  Alright?
• 1:05:56
  Thank you, guys.
• 1:05:58
  We'll see you soon.
• 1:06:00
  And as always, have a good one.