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The Gathering Tangent - EP543 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Welcome back
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to WATT Spoilers, Tangents, the Gathering Tangent.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I think the gathering tangent. Yeah, the tangent storm doesn't.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: The tangent storm would work now, but the gathering tangent.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the gathering tangent is definitely the way it goes. So, yeah,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Gathering Tangent. We're here to talk about
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: mostly Watcon, I think, but also maybe we'll quickly review
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: everything that's happened since November because that's when we started
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the book. Sure, but yeah, that's kind of what we're
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: here today. We don't have guests or anything. It's going
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to be pretty pretty short and sweet.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: It's been a long time since I've been on a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Tangent's episode. You keep having them without me. Oh yeah,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know do on these anymore. You're gonna have
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: to lead me through. I'm completely okay.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So our special guest today is set the voice you
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: never hear on a Tangent super cut.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to do this.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Tangents. We just talk about whatever, and I
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: usually do structure it by the timeline of the book. Kay,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: just because that provides some kind of beginning middle end.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So we started the book in November. We were looking
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: at our schedule before we started the recording. We started
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: this back in November, and you were saying that you
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: were reminding me that we actually didn't finish the preceding
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: book before you got married, right, So you came back
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: from your wedding vacation or wedding break, actuated your honeymoon later,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and then we finished that book and then we got
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to Gathering Storm all the way in November.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, So I mean I had what I would consider
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: one of the busiest nine months of my life since
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the marriage.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Right, which is the time for the book.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the time of the book. So I mean just
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: in my personal life. Timber died shortly after the wedding,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: which was a huge shock, right right, And so that
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: was like right about the time I think we started
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: this book. Here, this book. I'm entirely sure about the
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: timing there, which was hard for a while, it still
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: is hard. And then Travis, you know, blessed him, Yeah,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: bless him. But he basically had a neighbor who was
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: had an out of control puppy who they weren't dealing
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: with and that puppy became ours. We hadn't even put
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: away Timber's food bowls. I mean it was wild. Yeah. So,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and that is Harvey having a new puppy who was
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I mean he was eight months old when we got him.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: We did track down his original birth records and so
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: we have and his original owners who we have permission
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: to keep him from because they never they only had
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: him about a week before he was stolen or lost.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So yeah, he's been a big focus of my life
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: the last where actually we will have had him for
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: six months as of tomorrow.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: So and six months they always say is that time
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: when it's the most chaotic when the dog. And we've
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: really found the last few weeks he settled in really,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: really well. But those first six months were hard. I
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: mean he was a the kind of dog who would
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: bite our ankles and wrists to get our attention. He
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: would just walk up in your face and bark. And
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: he has a very loud, very startling, very triggering bark
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: when it's in your face. He was, you know, shitting inside.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: He was not body trained at all for an old
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: month puppy. That's that's tragic, right, Like at that point.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: They should be fully all those things should be well done.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: But he has been incredibly smart, incredibly trainable, still a
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: giant bundle of energy, and because he's sixty five pounds,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: he does occasionally smack or into us and hurt us
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: occasionally because he's just he can't control the energy sometimes.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: But the intentional biting, the intentional hurting is stopped now
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that he's much more assure, he's much more settled in.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: He and the cat are friends right like, they're sniffing
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: each other and cuddling on the bed together, and you know,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: he's still was driving. He came in here he wanted
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: to play ball while I was getting set up and
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: totally got caught on one of the cords and freaked
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: out because he was caught and went slam. All the
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: computer stuff went sliding onto the ground, and I was like, god, yeah,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: So he's that level of just chaotic puppy. But he's
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: he's a good dog, and he hasn't had an accent
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: inside in a long time, and he's well great trained.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Still working on strangers. He's still not great with strangers,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: but just a little more time and I think he's
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: going to be a great dog.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Right, So it's probably been the gathering Harvey. Yeah time, A.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Lot of my personal dime has been spent on you know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: dog walking, dog training, just playing with him.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: And like every episode has had a dog update of something.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Really like if you listen to this book specifically, you're
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: getting a lot of like you can follow the progression
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: of the dog for this last book.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And from crying to oh what a good puppy.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah really this is this is that book. This is wow.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I haven't thought about that, but yeah, this book encapsulates
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that that horrible transition with Timber into the wild circus
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: that is Harving.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In that time, we also, I think we went
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: on our honeymoon in January. That was January.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you did that in the winter. You very
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: wisely ran away south from sunshine in the middle of
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the North Pacific, northwest of winter. Honeymoon and that was.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: An amazing honeymoon, had an amazing time. Snor. I went
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: went not circling. I went scuba diving. I have a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: history of swimming, so I love, love scuba diving when
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I whenever I can do it. It's it's being able
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to breathe on water, breathe underwater feels very magical to me.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: We went horseback riding because never wanted to do it,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: and then just were lazy, a bunch in the.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: In the you know, lazy in an exotic location is
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: a fantastic vite.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Never made a bunch of friends. Like we had a
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: great time on the beach. And she speaks pretty fluent
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say fluent Spanish, but close to fluent Spanish,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: close enough, close enough, yeah for that. And her Spanish
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: gets better when she's been drinking, so that helps. So
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: we had a great time doing that. Yeah than that,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: just you know, work is work I've had. Also, here's
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the crazy thing. I've had a bunch of friends. So
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: my life I started off in Philadelphia, was my first job,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: and I was a more than innocent little, you know,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: twenty two year old, twenty three year old coming out
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: of college and had a bunch of like a group
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: of friends who really took care of me. And it
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: turns out they all had kids about that time because
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: they were mature and I was not. And that's been
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: eighteen years and so it turns out all their kids
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: are going to college, and their kids are all going
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: to college around Portland. And so I've got this two
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: group of friends from Philadelphia from twenty years ago and
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: they're both moving to the Portland area.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a bunch of old friends coming into
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Portland as well as like some podcast friends that have
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: moved to Portland. I'm looking at you, Neil and Amanda. Oh,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: they went to Portland the area. They're not sorry they're
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: not in Portland, but sorry, Oregon, I should say Oregon,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: but the Portland area. Think, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say exactly where they are because it's privacy, but.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: It's just like Portland. That's okay for me.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Portland is the center of Oregon because it's the city
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: that exists, that sort of anchors the rest of the country.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: It's the center of gravity. But people do live elsewhere.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people make mistakes. I get that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I can't hear you from my Disney Princess existence in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: the woods.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just kidding me. Shit, But you know, I've
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: hit this point in my life where I'm like, everybody's
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: kind of coming A lot of people in my life
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: are coming back into my sphere of influence, which is
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a whole another kind of trippy. I guess if you're
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: old enough, everything comes back around.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Right apparently. Sure, seems like that's really cool having people
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: from your past come back in like a positive way.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: That's really neat and like your friendships are picking up.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, pretty much.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, being weird because twenty years difference, yes,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: but also like people don't change that much. Really, you
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: just get better at being yourself. I mean, if you're
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: doing it right anyway.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Although it is all these old friends. I mean, we
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: used to drink together, right, That's what we did, and
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: now I'm not really drinking and they're older and also
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: not really like into that scene, so it's like, oh right,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: we don't really want to pick up where we left.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Literally watched a Ryan George sketch about this last night
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: that came out like two days ago, like literally, well just.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Like people getting together and be like what do we
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: do now that we don't drink together?
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like oh this food hurts my stomach and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I have a hard stop at nine pm and my
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: back hurts, and like just like what did we do together?
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Like surely we're not all friends just because we were
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: sat together in class accidentally, Like I mean it was
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: referring back to high school friends. But still I think
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: it's the same the same light. Yeah, what if we
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: can't drink and we can't eat spicy food and we
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: can't go jumping off of cliffs and like now what
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: then then what is left just to talk to each other?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like we have stuff in common right.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Right right right as my friends with kids going to
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: college and having their own kids are like, oh, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm thinking about having a baby right yeah,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: but actually I'm really happy one of my friends, you know,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: like I said, her kids are going off to college,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: and you know, she's absolutely seems is and she moved.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: She's like, I don't know if I'm gonna be close
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: to you. I'm moving to Saint John's area and I'm like, yeah,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: that's that's less than ten minutes away from where I am.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: You're literally down the street. So I'm like, you're gonna
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: help me if I have babies, you're gonna help, You're
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: gonna be Yeah, you're gonna be my number one call.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: We all go at our own pace.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: We sure do, we sure do. Yeah. So I mean
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: that's that's my life for This book is kind of
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: New Dog. Oh, I bought a house. I suppose I
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: should mention that too.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: You bought the house right before you got married, but
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you didn't get to move in until after the wedding.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Right, No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: There was something. There was something with that, right, I
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: clearly know how time works.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: No, we got we got married, and a month later
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Timber died. And then about two weeks after that, we
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: got a nasty letter from our hoa telling us that
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Timber was too big.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Right, it was the honeymoon that was bracketed around the move.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the honeymoon, That's what it was. Yeah,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the honeymoon. We bought the house, we went on the honeymoon,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: and we literally moved. Oh my god. Yeah, so we we.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Got back during this book.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, God, we got back from the honeymoon. We both
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: got so sick. We were both deadly ill. Our cat
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: also got deadly ill and nearly died and had to
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: be taken to the hospital and was on thousands of
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: dollars of medication. And that was the week that we
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: got Harvey, and that's the week we were packing to
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: move into our new apartment. So we were sick. Our
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: cat was sick, we got a new puppy, and we
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: were packing to move into our new house. So that
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: was a hard two weeks.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you you were you were kind of dead for
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: those two weeks. I was definitely getting extremely like grunt
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: level texts at that time, like two or three words
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: every like week.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: To just be like I'm alive.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Yes or no on the podcast, I technically am not dead. Yeah, yeah,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that was. That was a rough time. And in the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: depths of winter. No, yeah, there's like no daylight, like, yeah,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: that was. You had a rough rough time there. But yeah,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: then you got in the house and have had shenanigans
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: in the house, all kinds of.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fun. Yeah, house has been fun.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Told on the podcast or otherwise, and so yeah, that's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: been quite the progression.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and for the most most part of the house
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: has been it was moving ready. We haven't had any
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: problems with it. It's been a really easy process to
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: be in the house. The only you know, we're still
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: hot today. I realized how we were. We were in
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: stage three of moving in right. Stage one is like
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: get enough shit in there that you can survive in
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the house, right.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Right, right, You got the bedroom and half.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: The kids, Yeah, exactly right. Stage two was like unpacked
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: everything and like spend some time settling in living in
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: the house. And stage three is going into those final
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: boxes that you stashed away and being like do we
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: actually need this or do we need to get rid
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: of it, or like we need to unpack the last
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: few things that we really didn't immediately have a need for.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: But like today I opened up a bag of bags
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and everyone's like, oh, here's all my purses. Oh when
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: this person has a bunch of stuff in it I've
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: been looking for for the last you know, six months.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: So we're still in that stage of like finishing up
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the unpacking.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I'm very much still in that place too, because I
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: feel like I never ever finished moving into any given
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: apartment in college, Like that stage never got reached because
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: it's college life, and I'm also holding onto stuff that's
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: like not relevant until I'm done with college, So like
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I still never quite finished because it's not fully sunk
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: into my brain that I'm in the house now right
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: like I'm getting there.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I was like, how long you lived there? For years?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Many many years?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're coming up on five years. And it's just
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the habit of not really finishing unpacking is apparently hard
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to break because I keep being like, fuck, that box
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: is still there and I know what's in it, and
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it's really just like memento keepsake, du'ts cattro type stuff,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: but like it should be out. I was saving it
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: so that way, when I had more space than a
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: shoe box of an apartment, I could have it out
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: like finish the intended thing act.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Well, and you caught me earlier calling this house an apartment, right,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I still think of it as an apartment. I'm renting,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and I can't break that, and it partially is. It
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: is a row house, so it does still feel very
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: apartment like in some ways. Right, I'm sharing walls, I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: don't have a lot of yard space in the front
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: or back. It's a relatively low square footage home compared
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: to like a standalone home, although there are certainly smaller standalone,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: single floor homes out there. But yeah, for me, I'm
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: definitely the kind of person who I need to be
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: completely unpacked at some point, Like the it's weighing on
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: my mind that there are boxes that have never been
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: unpacked sitting somewhere. I need to go through those and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: sort through them.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I just live with that sort of guilt dragging at
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: me all the time constantly, so like a few more
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: or less doesn't really make a difference in like the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: cognitive load of all the things that I have to
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: do that I just feel shame about not having done.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Like there's just just a cup overflowing sort of energy.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So speaking of which, you have to get on me,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: and I have to get on me about getting the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: tax stuff handled. Oh the pie, because audience, I fucked
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: up the business taxes, not majorly, I just didn't include
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: one of the forums that they want, and I send
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: it in with my personal taxes instead of in with
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: the business taxes, and that has gotten some trouble and
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: find us. So I have to get that resolved, which
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: involves calling the RS, which is why I've been putting
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: it off because that sucks. And I got the letter
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: like two days before walk On, So then it was
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: walk on, going to walk on, coming back from all
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: con being having to work for a week, and now
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: it's now.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: So what was I doing for all of that time?
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I've really just been chilling, living my executively dysfunctional life.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I was gonna say, what's your so, I mean,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I know, in the last book you've been pretty stable.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I think update on your husband's foot, I think is
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: probably the only thing I can think of that's a
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: big major life change.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay, I do actually have a few other things,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: but that is relevant. I don't generally update the podcast
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: audience with that. But yeah, in the course of the
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: last year, he's gone from having like to be very
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: careful with the ankle situation to being pretty much back
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to like hiking and awesome running around and like, you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: he still has to be a little careful. There's still
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: definitely a couple of things that hurt and like stuff,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: but he's he can do the things that he used
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: to be able to do before. Right, he has to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: be slightly more careful about it, but like not in
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: a activity restricting way, just a nope, not going to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: walk on the balance beam long across the creek, going
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: to find a stable ford for sure kind of situation.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he can. He can live his life again.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: It's great. It's been a really long three years, literally
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: three years since the actual injury happened, and he's finally
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: back to living like ninety percent of what life was
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: like before, just with bone spurs now, because that's apparently
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a thing that happens when you have to repair yourself.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Ah, those good for riding a horse. You can just
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: you know, basically, you know, get me up with ahead
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: with the bone spur.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: No, oh okay, I can't even feel them when I
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: massage his heel, but yeah, it's it's apparently quite painful.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: But he still has been able to do stuff this
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: summer that like he was not able to do, so
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that's been really really great. Modern medicine is awesome for sure.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: If you need sports medicine, you should totally go to
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Slow in Eugene. They have some of the best sports
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: medicine type surgeons and doctors there. And he effectively had
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a football injury, even though he did not get it
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: playing football. It was you know, the kind of thing
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: you usually see in football players. So that's one big update.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: But yeah, my house is very stable. My land is
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: putting out a lot of fruit this year. We put
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: cages up around the blueberries this year and I have
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: gotten i mean, probably close to ten pounds of fruit.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: They just absolutely obnoxious amount of blueberries. I brought some
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to wat Con and they really like kept me going.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But other updates in my life is I can't quite
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: remember when I started used to sew. It was I
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: think before this book started, But that has been a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: thing that has been growing and progressing and evolving over
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the course of this book. Is having a regular podcast
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: rhythm akin to this, but with my mom, where she's
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: really the driving force behind it. She's the main info dumper,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: like I mostly provide color commentary with occasional info dumps.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Mostly it's her.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: You're like co hosting, which is like supporting the main
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: host by making sure that they're communicating clearly, and like
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: have someone to bounce ideas off of, but it's her
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: ideas and her communication right exactly.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And and I do this like intro outro thing and
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: my stepdad masters it. And sometimes I put sound effects in.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I really should have done the hashtags so WAT challenge,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: but I just did not have the brain power to
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: add yet another level of that intersection. But that's been
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: a really fun process working with her to create that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: She really likes listening to it. She's like one of
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the rare podcast clients who actually listens to their own product.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And it is lovely to have a client who gives
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: you feedback on your editing because they actually listen to
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the thing. So that's just been really cool.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Are you saying something about me, I'm saying.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Something about every other one of my clients, with the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: exception of Queers of Time Cami. I love them. They
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: are very analytical and did have many constructive criticism things
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to say on our first few rounds. Now we're good,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And I never get that feedback because I internalized the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: feedback and you know, now we're good. But yeah, only
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: only Cami and my mom ever actually listen to the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: finished product.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I did. I did when you first started editing for
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: a while, but oh yeah you did. At some point
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, I don't need to. I'm going to
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna have any better input on this than
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: you are. You you're taking You're being more careful with
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: it than I ever was.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, but no, my mom actually really enjoys like
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: hearing the finished product, and she said, just listens to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: him twice. Anyway, It's been a very fun process because
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: it's a very different podcast from this, but also I've
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: learned a lot of lessons from this and like using
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that and also from a hot Nuance, which is a
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: podcast that no longer is being made because schedules are hard.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: But like, nonetheless, I learned a lot from doing that
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: one that have applied there. I like literally use the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: same time travel sound effect from one, so yeah, now
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I already have a time travel sound effect. It's cool.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: And so then from there, I also this year have
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: started a podcast with my autism coaching business, or not
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: my business, but my autism coaching career. With my fellow coaches.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: We have started a podcast called Autistic Stuff for Autistic People,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and it's literally me and my coaching mentor as well
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: as two of my coaching colleagues, so four of us
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: collectively talking about stuff to do with being autistic in
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the world, kind of you know, autistic info dumps and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: autistic joy and this general lived experience as people. And
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we've got three episodes out now. We're only releasing once
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: every other week, so that way we can kind of
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: record in boom and bust cycles of alignment of schedules
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and everything, because you know, for autistic people in three
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: time zones, one of which is in Europe, it's hard
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: for sure. So we're able to record a lot and
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: then release kind of infrequently, but it's been a really
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: cool process again learning from my other podcasts, how do
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I want to put this together? How do I want
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: my templates to work? And how freaking janky every one
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: of my new projects is. When I start, I'm like, yeah,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I know how to make a podcast. And then every
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: one of my new projects, the first two or three
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: episodes just suck. And then I figure out what I
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: want as a producer, as an editor, and then I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: lock in and it starts being good and I start
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: having a rhythm and I have a script and I
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: know what I want. But the first few episodes is
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, this is so bad. I
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: thought I was a professional. I thought I knew what
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I was doing, But for some reason, the process of
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: starting a new project means that you do get reset
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: to novice status. However, briefly like it's really weird.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's more about being a pros how fast
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: you can make that curve bend back into the professional level,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: less about or you're going to start. You've figured that out.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: You're going to start over anew with every project. You
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: have to build your workflows, and you figure out people's microphones,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: figure out it you know what that person is doing wrong,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: that's causing that echo, right, Like, you know, there's always
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: a level of troubleshooting in the beginning, and then once
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you dial things in, you can you can be much
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: more professional. But yeah, I mean it's how quickly you
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: can dial things in For me, I think that's what
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: makes you good.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: And podcasting is also a collaborative process, so you have
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to train the other person to do it. And my
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: mom has been very easy to train because she is
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: a professional musician. She's done studio work, so the transition
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: to podcasting, yeah, again, she was very professional. But it
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: didn't take her long to go from absolute novice to like, oh okay, yeah, yeah, sure,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Like has been using audacity for as long as I've
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: been alive almost you know.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: You don't have to train her on how on microphone discipline,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: and yeah.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I mean slightly because it is a different mic to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: do spoken versus singing, right, performance mics are different. But
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: also she has those two bins already in her head.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: She just more used to one. Whereas my autistic podcast,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: none of them are podcasters or performers of any sort,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: so I have had to train them on where do
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you find the menu options in Audacity in order to
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and like walk them through every single step of how
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: to export and where to upload, and like by episode six,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: they're starting to anticipate what I'm going to say next,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's a much slower learning process, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the questions they have are like not questions I expected,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: because I'm just like, wow, you're you really are utterly
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: ignorant of this entire world. And everyone I've worked with
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: has had a degree of exposure that you do not have.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And they're learning. It's fine. You know, we've recorded like
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: nine episodes. I think at this point we've got three out,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: so I've got plenty in the queue and ready to go.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: But it's been an interesting learning experience coaching people to
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that through that, and then also they want to help
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: me with publishing and stuff, and I'm like, ooh, yeah,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: suddenly I'm a control freak and I don't know if
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I know I need time and I know I need energy,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: and I know I need to like delegate, but that
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: would mean letting you have some control over this process.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: And suddenly that makes me feel like I have hives.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: So a whole lot of cool learning experiences to go
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: through and that's really been a lot of what has
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: dominated my year this year. Like, yes, a lot of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: things are stable, but that's really been my intellectual process
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: is these two curves.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: And I think that is also one of the reasons
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: why we stopped having so many guests on right, is
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: because it is like starting over. It's like starting a
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: podcast over every time you bring on a new guest,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Like there's always it shouldn't be that hard, but like
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: depending on how experienced the person is, what their microphone.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It's gotten easier since COVID, But I do think you
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and I both hit this point where it's like we
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: are putting in as much work and setting up guests,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: getting them set up, integrating them into the podcast as
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: we are on the whole rest of the podcast.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: But together, Yeah, I mean also, schedules are hard.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: And schedules are hard, right, like yeah, because we're like
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: we need to schedule. We want to put this podcast
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: out on a regular basis. We're going to record when
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: it's commedient for us, and if you can join us, fine,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: But like it was easier. I think we were both
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: not working and we could move the schedule around to
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: accommodate guests.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now we've locked in. Like you have an externally
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: imposed schedule, I have an internally imposed one. But like
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of calls throughout the week. I
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: can't be just bouncing around, Like I have so many
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: scheduled events with different people for different reasons.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Right, which is good because like you didn't used to
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: have that. And now I'm really happy with the different
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: podcasts and the volunteer stuff and like, yeah, you're busy, right,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and yes.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I need to learn to delegate. I need to get minions.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm just you know, I'm working a full time job,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: which I know for some of you you're like, well,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: then what's the problem. It's just a full time job.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: But turns out it doesn't leave me a lot of bandwidth.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, And that's fairy real. But the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: other really exciting thing that happened is the thing that
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: just happened as we finished the book.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Sure that Walt con. Yeah, so this is sort of
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: the main top we wanted to catch up on. What
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: are you doing? Talk about walk on and then we'll
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: talk about the Gathering Storm a little bit. Yeah, watchn
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: was a great fun week. I kind of went for
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: the first time in a long time to a con
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: as just a guest. I wasn't doing any part of
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: the planning. I was on any panels. I brought some
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: friends and I just I hung out. Huge shout out
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: to n NTOC, who's been on Discord quite a bit
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: for our live shows, but he was there at con.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I spent a good chunk of the con hanging out
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: with him. I brought one of my coworkers and the
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: three of us spent a big chunk of the weekend together.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So you know, I made tons of other friends and
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I don't want to just single him out, but I
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: am just going to single him out because you know,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: it was fun. We went through. We did a lot
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: of stuff together, and he was very social.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Nemtalk has the dubious honor of being the person
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: who bought me the beer I didn't need for two
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: nights of the con. I really both times he was
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: being so nice and so observant of my desire for
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: another beer. In both cases I really shouldn't have had
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: that beer. So he gets the dubious honor of having
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: bought me the beers I didn't need twice at the con.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry you get that honor in em talk.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: But it was great hanging out with you, definitely, and.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Then and then just the list of other people I
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: got to hang out with is so long that I
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: don't even want to go into it. At this point.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I will say I did a lot better job of
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: taking selfies with people than I have on previous cons,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and I still didn't take even half the selfies I
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: should have. I hung out with so many wonderful people
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: and did not get selfies with them because I'm a
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: ding dong, and I just it was such a delight
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: to talk with everyone. I just I love this community
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: of nerds. You're all so smart and funny and come
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: from such interesting different backgrounds, with different skills and perspectives,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: and it's just such a delight to get to mingle
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: with so many different people who have this one thing
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: in common and yet light blended foolded. When the poker
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: tournament Athlon was there, we got to hang out with Athlon,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: which was hilarious because we've actually hung out at Spoiler Con, right,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: This is like, I mean, yes, we've hung out with
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Morgan before, but this was someone who had traveled a
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: great distance to come to Spoiler Con. And then also
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: traveled a great distance, well, a lesser distance, but still
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a great distance to walt Con and so that was
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: a fun, like full circle kind of moment, being like,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I remember you last time in Portland, so long ago, and.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Then I just want to give out my blanket disclaimer
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: if you said you know something to me this weekend
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: about how you listen to my podcast or you like
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: what I do, or you know, hey, you're seth, and
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I responded with something like thanks and then stumbled away,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: It's really.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I really really appreciate when people come up to me
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and tell me they're like, what do I do? Or
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: listen to the podcast? And I still have not figured
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: out a good way to respond to it without blushing, stammering,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: and walking away. So thank you. I really do appreciate it.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it makes my heart warm. I'll try better
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: next time, but I don't.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: It's so hard.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: It's so because I can see the numbers. I can
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: see there are people listening to the podcast, but realizing
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: those people exist in real life and might actually come
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: up to me and say something, it's just I don't
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: think my brain has ever been able to reconcile those
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: two things.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Hm, Yeah, you should have grown up as the child
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of a performing artist who puts out albums where your
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: small child's voice is on one of the albums, then
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: you will know how to process that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be easier. Yeah, no, yeah, you have
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: faces of pants a saying yeah, you guys have faces
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: and like you're your real people, and I love you
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: for that. But my god, I'm still not one hundred
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: percent gracious about it, and I really wish I was
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: better about that.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Well, it's okay. I still have never had the nerve
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: to actually hang out with Michael and Kate like a
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: normal human being. So you know, we've all got our
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't spend a lot of time with them this weekend.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I did get to say hi a few times, and
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I did listen to them for like an hour one night,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: but it was really late. Yeah, they were just I
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what, there's a bunch of people
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: who want to spend time with them. I've gotten to
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: do it in the past. I don't want to try
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: and hog Michael and Kate this weekend.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I told myself this was going to be the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: year I would be normal, and then I was not,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: so I just avoided them because terrifying. I loved that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: so much. I mean I was in pretty close proximity
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to Michael on the dance floor, yeah, which is always
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: fun because he shreds the dance floors so hard and
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: it's just the most fantastic thing. And I had a
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: great time at the dance party this year because I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: remembered earplugs always seeing Lee the interpreter always tears the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: dance floor to ribbons, and then Michael just comes in
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and it's it's I mean, the dance party is great.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: I love everyone there, but Lee and Michael are perhaps
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: my favorites.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I did not go to the dance party. It was
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: too loud for me and I did not bring headphones, so.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Ear plugs really helped.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I walked in and went. I would love to
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: hang out longer, but this is I don't know if
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: it's louder than it's been in the past years or
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: if I'm just more sensitive than I used to be.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: But I had to walk away. I had to walk
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: away from it.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I was wearing earplugs like all through dinner and for
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: all of me in stage programming. It was just kind
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: of my mom when I was in that room.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: But then what's great about Watcan is you can walk
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: out of the dance floor and there's a huge group
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: of people playing board games right outside the dance floor,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: and it's like, if you're not comfortable with that, you
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: can do that instead. Yeah, and uh yeah and played
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: cards and yeah. Like I said, I I got to
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: hang out with so many cool people.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I don't even big shout out to talk a round
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Riodd yet again for doing their what idle inclusive sing
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: along party.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you love that lobby.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: That is one of the best things in the entire world.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: And I love them so much for doing that and
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: having what idle parody lyrics in the repertoire. It's just
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: so great. So always have to shout them out for
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: doing that.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Also really entertaining Panels. You know, you can't go without
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: shouting out the panels, right, like they do such a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: good job of making interesting people talking about Wheel of
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Time content in front of people that there's I got
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: to see a trial. I always enjoy a good trial,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a mock trial. At this time, they were going after Rand.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: For the no it was loose there, the attack attack
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: on the on the shale Gorul at the end of
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the Booring.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at the end of the War of Power and
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: basically like doing that without you know, he was told
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: not to by the women's side of things, but you know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and also using the show had the Tamerlin be the authority,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: be the woman in that situation, and so there was
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: like ops arguing, you know, oh, well, the TV show's
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: not accurate. The book is more accurate. And it was fun.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: It was fun. It was it was pretty good. Yeah,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: and just a bunch of other you know, great Wheel
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: of Time content panels that you I can watch. I
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: want to go back and watch mall online. I haven't
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: had a chance to do that.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I got to remember to watch the streams or the
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: recordings because those are all available on the website.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I'm the creative program or the creative track person, and
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: it's really fun to see them getting put together, like
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: to see the other track directors talking about what they've
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: got going on and seeing the panels that I'm quote
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: unquote responsible for organizing themselves. And I always do my
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: content creation panel and that's always a great time. I've
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: now had two people transition from being in the audience
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: to on the panel in the course of my years
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: doing it, which makes me feel very accomplished. I am
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: encouraging people to make content and feel confident in what
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: they're doing, and that just makes me feel really productive
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and happy. And then I also went and watched one
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: of the panels. I watched the Resistance in Other Stories panel,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: because we always have a something in Other Stories panel,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and this year it was Forms of Resistance, and I
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: went to that and watched it, and that was a
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: really cool, interesting discussion of all these different fictional universes,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and it was the one it's one of the few
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: things that's not Wheel of Time, but it's also you know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: we're still all unified by Wheel of Time, and it's
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it's really fun to see how people engage with that material.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, the other panel I really liked was the writing
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: an Outrigger novel, whereas basically coming up with some speculation
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: about what an Outrigger novel would look like. I, of course,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: am completely disagree with all the conclusions that they came to,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: because I have my own head canon and would write
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: it my own way, But it was really fun to
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: see somebody else sort of write that novel and how
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: they would put together and what they would want to
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: talk about and then that sort of thing. So it
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: was structured a little differently than I thought it was
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: going to be. But I really did enjoy the panel
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: because he had written he had written a little short
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: of like a chapter, and he had sort of proposed
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: a bunch of things in that chapter had happened, and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: then it was like, okay, being that these things have happened,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: how did we get there? And so there was there
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: was almost a stake in the ground that we were
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: trying to get to rather than the infinite possibilities, which
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I get why you want to do that in the panel, right,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: like yeah, limit time limits are very real. So really
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: enjoyed that panel as well. That was really good, so
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: you know, and then the food was amazed that the
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: food's always really good.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I had my usual issues with food. I thought hot
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: sauce was going to fix all of my problems, and
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: it fixed about a third of my problems. So I
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: ate better than I ever have, but still woefully insufficient
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: to what I needed to do for me.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: It was not being on any panels and being there
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: entirely one hundred percent as a guest. I was so
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: low stress. I just enjoyed myself and so I was
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: able to eat.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's just the sheer noise floor of the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: whole thing being indoors for days and it's just all indoor, bouncing,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: flat panels of sound, and I don't know, it feels
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: like noise overload to me. That just my body is like, no,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: we're in flight mode, like we cannot be digesting. What
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: are you talking about?
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: And it starts with the airplane, right because the airplanes'
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: are allowed to tell the noise.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Canceling headphones make it so much better, but it is
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: still a full body experience to be next to a
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: jet engine for several hours. Yeah, it's my least favorite
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: part about WACAN is getting there. Yeah. The main stage
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: programming was pretty amazing too.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean we've we got to see the
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: costumes from the show, which I mean.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: The costume designer for seasons two and three, and she
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: brought five of the show costumes for display and it
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: was she was very excited to talk about them four hours.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: She was quite the hit at the con. She was
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: really cool.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And I think all the things we've said about the show,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I never think we we always complimented the costuming. We
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: always thought that they did a very good job with
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: the costuming.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I've never heard a complaint about the costuming, even from
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: the people who just hate the show, Like, the costuming
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: is never what I hear about before I managed to
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: ignore them. The costuming is never their top three issues,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: No, I've had them. See, well it's too clean.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you mean, I don't give a good goddamn yeah.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Because we are not. This is not a medieval fantasy.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: This is not a medieval fantasy.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Let me have pretty fantasy. Let me have fantasy.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Oh you mean the women who can use
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: the one power to clean their dresses have clean dresses
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: all the time. What a shock.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Wow, but it's really unrealistic that they age.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, oh wait people in the two Rivers have
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: a wool sweater the like.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Wow, oh no, but it looks the costumes have always
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: been a thing that are top three on people who
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: are complimenting the show. Costumes is like so easily a
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: common thing that people are just in love with, even
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: season one, but seasons two and three, Huh, it's getting
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: to see this woman talk about her process and her
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: team and her enthusiasm was like, I get why the
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: costumes are so amazing. This is a lot of passion.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Well, and the fact that she did the Shawn Chan
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: in season one as well, that was her first project, right,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: so like there was that real, oh my god, the
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Shawn chann are rolling in and they are completely different look.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Which like knockout part of season one.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And there were there were a few things where
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: she was like she thought that it was from the books,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: but she invented it. A couple of times where she was.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Like, I loved that Robert Jordan was smiling down upon
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that moment. That made him happy.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: And just some of the coincidences, like the fact that
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: they were they ended up using raven feathers.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: For Yes Serendipity magic for the Shawn Chan.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: The Shawn Chan headress what was her name, the yes Roth.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was in the outfit and she didn't
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: even know.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: She didn't know. She just like like we all we
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: all clocked those raven feathers right away, and it just
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: happened to be. I mean, I'm sure the bin of
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: raven feathers was there because raven feathers are something they use, right,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: But She's like, I just grabbed a bin of raven
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: feathers who were sitting there, and they worked perfectly, And
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: that's just serendipitous for the Shawn Chan, which of course
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: works the Dark Friend Shawn Chan, where the ravens are
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: like double you know, a double entendre, right, Like, yeah, yeah,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: that's what a double.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: On Hondre is, double meaning anyway.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, double meaning. But yeah, you know, just stuff like that,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: which was really cool to see seeing the back of
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: a Lighta's dress where they had carefully placed six stones
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: no blue right deep within the intricacies of her dress
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: where no one would ever see it. There wasn't even
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: a shot at the back of the dress in the show, right, Like, yeah,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Sharon Gillian is the name of the person who ran that,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: if we didn't say that already. She has a great Instagram.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: She was super nice, obviously, you know, care deeply about
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: creating something that really reflected the fact that Jordan pulled
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: from a lot of different cultures to create his culture.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And she took that and said, oh, okay, so I
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: can use anything and create some really intricate, cool costumes
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: and she did.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, she understood where he was coming from
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: with the legends fade to myth at an aesthetic level,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Like she got that even though she didn't know all
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the plot stuff like that doesn't matter. You understood the
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: first paragraph and that's all that matters.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: And I never expected everybody who worked on the show
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: to read the books. For sure, I kind of expect
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: the writers to read the fucking books. But they didn't
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: do that either.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: This was a costuming discussion.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: This was a costume discussion. We're not going to go
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: into the writing.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And she was really engaged with talking to people about it. Yeah,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Like she wanted to have the back and forth and
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: was just so willing to talk to people, and it
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: was so cool.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, was so willing to talk to people and
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: was so engaging that I, you know, I brought Chris
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: to the Cohn my coworker who was like a diehard
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to watch the show type person, and at
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: the end of the con he's like, Oh, his costumes
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: are so good. Maybe I'll watch the show just to
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: see the costumes. Yeah, that level of like, oh, I'm
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: that presentation was good enough that it got someone who
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: was a diehard never watched the show fan to consider
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: watching the show just on the basis of the costuming, right, Like,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: so I think that's an accomplishment, and I think that's
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of passion. Yeah, a lot of passion that
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: she showed. And then I think that was that was
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: the highlight, which I didn't expect it to be right
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: that that And of course Kate and Michael reading always. Actually,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Kate's voice is changing for sure.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, her voice is definitely changing. And then what else
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: about the con.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was nice to see you in person?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, always, we should see each other more often, given
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: that I live in not Portland and you live in Portland,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: right right, we should probably try to see each other
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: more often than in Ohio.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I just I don't understand how people maintain social relationships
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: because I'm doing my best here and man, it's hard,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: it's really hard, and I'm not doing a good job,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: and it's and then not doing even not doing a
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: good job is hard, Munce, let's doing a good job
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: where people are like, I see how much effort never
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: puts into our friendships and I'm just like, oh my god,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: you're so good at that and you do it so naturally.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure it's just practice. An effort that I
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: don't see.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Speaking of effort, it was, say, another fun thing from
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the con the costumes that all the people made. Yeah,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the costplay the show tributes the parade at the end,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of cost because of the costume
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: person coming this year. I think people really.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Went hard on the costumes that plus I think the
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: fact that you have the show as an example, Yeah,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: you have a lot.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Of so many show so many show moraines love you all,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: but like, wow, there was a lot of you.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I feel like from books you get a very vague
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: description and you, yeah, we all kind of end up
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: with a similar language, but like, oh, are you trying
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: to be this version of that character, that version of
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: this character? Right, there's a little bit of like ambiguity
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: based on book description. Right, But now that we have
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: this show template model, we actually have, Oh, you're trying
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: to look like that character looked on screen, And I
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: can see that, and I could see the details that
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: match up in the same way that I feel like
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: remember people used to do like Ariel Burgess's versions of
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: the characters because they had a visual that they could
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: base the costume on and it was immediately recognizable. By
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: other people. I feel like in the same way that
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: the costumes really, because they do have the show as
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: a template and are immediately recognizable, you can then be like,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: how close are you to that character? Oh that's a
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: really good imitation of that, as opposed to oh, we're
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what were you going for? You were going for this
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: example of what you saw in your head, and I'm
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: not sure how close to that you actually got.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there was so much talent. We had a
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: full blown Queen Morgaze. We had so many moraines. Brian
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: came not only as re Kappa but also as Paren
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: with the hawk and the falcon and a hammer, and
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: it was just like just there's so many costumes.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: So great to talk to Brian again, you know, after
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: his as traumatic traumatic n injury and sort of withdrawal
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: from the community, you always worry that, you know, is
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: that person going to come back?
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Is Rakap has actually been making a comeback on YouTube?
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: But Kap is back. Yeah, Caap is back. Brian's back,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Like it's it's so I'm so happy, so so happy
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: that I got to talk to Brian again and he
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: was He's back, you know, which is great.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's super super great. There was also a
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: lot of energy for the Save Watt campaign, a lot
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: of different mentions about it, and one of the Moraine
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Bodice pieces even had save Wat in the text. Lots
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: of postcards being handed out, there was still a lot
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: of energy going towards that. Throughout the con Kowala was
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: there with her Cards of Time. She continues to just
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: be indomitable Cards of Time dealer.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, amazing. So I didn't make it last
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: year because the wedding, And I was telling her, oh, yeah,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I didn't get to get any the Cards
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: of Time last year, and she goes and stuck me
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: a whole pack of last year's cards completely. She's so sneaky.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: So I have a full pack from last year and
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: pretty much full back from this year. And yeah, no,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: she's she's hilarious and like she comes out all the
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: way from Australia and she's just the sweetest little old
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: lady in all the ways that that's stereotype, right, Like
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: she's just the sweetest little old lady. Yeah, but also
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: like very energetic and conservation aala conservationist and yeah, fantastic
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: person and I just, oh man, there's so many people
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: that I could say that about that showed up, did
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: a lot, worked really hard.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's really hard to start talking
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: about one person and then we list every single person
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I can remember, knowing full well you're going to forget people,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: like that's terrible.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: But I did have fun delusions when I first got
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: to the con. You know, I walk in and delusions.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: We got in at like late Thursday night, early Friday morning.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: It was like one am, right like so, they're in
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: the lobby drinking and she runs up and just you
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: know it, gives me a big hug. It's like, oh,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't think you were gonna make it, YadA YadA.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: And about half an hour later, you know, so we're
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: talking to somebody, one of the new people at the con,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: and he goes, so, so, how long have you two
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: been married to me? And delusions and how she is
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: with people. It's like, she's so enthusiastic and happy to
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: see you that you think she's greeting her husband, right
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Like that's that's how just over the top and wonderful
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: she is.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Delusions, delusions of grand all everyone. She's fantastic.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: So for the rest of the weekend. She was like
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: my husband, and I was like, yeah, that was pretty funny.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: So just there's lots of fun little moments like that
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: all weekend. Again, you can't list them all.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: No, there was a door decorating contest that had some
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: very epic entries that got shown at the end.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I was sitting at dinner with the people who did
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: the murderal nailed to the door. I thought that one
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: was pretty good.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the door draw amazing.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And then there was they did the fin and the
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: twisted red tarangreol.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: It's two different Finn entries in the contest. Just so elaborate,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Just so elaborate. Yeah, just so much talent, so much talent.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Speaking of talent, apparently the deadline for what idol has
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: been extended.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Of course it has, so it's always extended.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I had basically given up on being able to do anything,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: So now I have reason to beat myself up slightly
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: more because potentially I could do something. But oh my god,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: I haven't started.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Did you like that the potential one I sent to you?
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I hadn't heard of the songs and I
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: haven't listened to it yet. You know, I have one
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: of the songs you sent like a year ago has
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: made it onto one of my playlists, and now I
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: feel like I know it well enough that I want
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: to do the I need to go back and see
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: see what your parody lyrics frets, because now I know
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: the song because it's I just put it on a
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: playlist and have learned it.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, people don't know this, but every I don't
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: know what is it? Every two months or so, I
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: kind of I'll send you a song and be like
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: what about this one? And send you like some of
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: the lyrics in Wheel of Time form, but it's usually
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: not very good, and I'll be like, what about this one?
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: And then I'm usually like, I'm uncultured and I've never
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: heard this song before in my life, so it's been.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: A struggle, and I'm getting them from never who's you know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: more on the pulse of pop culture. So she'll play
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: a song for me and it'll get my rotation and
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: they'll be like, oh, yeah, this is a song everybody knows.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: And then I'll propose it to you and you're like,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: not everybody knows this.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: But at least one of them. I liked it so
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: much that it has now become a song that I know.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Do you know which one?
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: It's someone about I met a woman with lips of red?
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, Paris Paris Blomo.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that song has definitely made it onto
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: my regular rotation. See, I got to go look at
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: what your lyric ideas were for it, because I had
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: a whole, a whole idea, and then I wrote the
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: lyrics down and I was like this, this doesn't work.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: The entire everything that I wanted that I thought was
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: going to be cool, I can't make work. M plus
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the video and everything would be so suck. And I
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: told Salia I was going to do this like really
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: like unhinged video this year, and now I'm gonna be
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: lucky if I can pull off like a lyric video
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: at all, Like if I can make an entry, I'm
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: gonna be so proud of myself. There's not going to
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: be an unhinged epic video. I'm sorry, sell Yeah, I'm sorry.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: All right. So anything else about WACON, I think we've
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: hit the con crede was was common.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the last thing is the aftermath
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: is in the walt Con server. Basically everyone who has
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: bothered to check in has been either sick with something
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: or definitively sick with COVID. And I am one of
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the very few people who has been checking in and
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I haven't felt sick, I haven't tested positive. I haven't
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: felt the slightest bit ill. Somehow everyone else has gotten sick.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I know one person has had to get medical attention.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: It's been a whole like creud A plus COVID has
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: really taken a lot of people down. Then you know,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: most of them are back up into work, but it's
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: been getting passed around households and like it was a
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: pretty serious spreader event that I somehow missed. I guess
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: because I'm special or because I just rolled a NAT
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: twenty on my health check. As one does.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: You get lucky? Yeah, no, I mean you can spend
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: I certainly. I think I ran a fever for a
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: day or so, but I didn't let that slow me
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: down because you know, American capitalism can can't take it
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: to sick day because I already took a week off,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: so and I'm actually taking this day off this next
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: week because I have a wedding to go to. So yeah, but.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's basically it for walk Con aside from
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like I should say formally I am not
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: planning on going next year or in future years because
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I have a standing event conflict with wat Con and
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I would rather do the one that's in my backyard
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: than the one that involves going to Ohio. So I'm
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: kind of formally withdrawing from it, not because the con
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: is anything but awesome, but just because I literally cannot
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: be in two places at once. So I'm not going
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: to be the creative track director anymore, and all of
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: that is going to have to get passed off to
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: someone else, which is sad, but I don't want to
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: go to Ohio when all my real life people are
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: doing a thing that's like an hour down the route.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Right right, And I was just talking about how hard
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: it was to maintained local friends, and I'm sort of
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: at this point where, I mean, going to the con
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: was nice because I could like see you and Morgan
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: and a few other local people there as well, but yeah,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: it's at this point. It's not I haven't made plans
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: not to go next year, but it's I haven't made
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: plans too go, and it's going to take something pretty
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: extraordinary to get me back out there again next year.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe I might, I might switch you in every other
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: the year schedule, but man, it's just time off work
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that has been really hard lately. And
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: so yeah, I as well and probably will not be
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: there next year unless something changes.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people who live on the West
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Coast or in Washington California we're having serious, drunken conversations
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: on Sunday about doing a West Coast regional get together
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: without any serious events, just rent a house by a
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: stack of pizza hangout. So I, because I can't plan
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: on going to wat Con, I am probably going to
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: keep rattling people's cages about that and try to like
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: get someone else to decide to do the rental and
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: all of that, because really we just want couch con.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: You know what.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: We won't call it a con a count.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, con cannot be in the name. It
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: has to be a hangout. Yeah, it has to be
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a hangout. I refuse to put CON in the name.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not taking ownership of it. It's not branded with Waltcon.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: But essentially what we need is regionals. We need regional
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: get togethers, and it's very possible. So definitely, if you
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: are a West Coast person. There are channels and ways
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: to be in contact with West Coast people, and maybe
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: someday there will be a thing where you can come
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: to a house on the coast and eat pizza and
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: hang out with a bunch of people who may or
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: may not have gone to Watcon.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: But I think we really we both hit a point
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: where traveling across the country is difficult and hard and
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: a burden, both in terms of taking time away from
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: our lives and the travel time and the money.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's just it's hard, and Brandon and I
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: definitely would rather go to an event together than go
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: and have these events separately.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: That's also yeah, And it's just.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: So fucking expensive. I could literally go to this other
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: event and spend all the money that I want to
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: spend and still spend less than I spent on lodging
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: alone for walt Con.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Right, It's just And honestly, the plane tickets is what
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: took me out.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: They were really expensive, and I get those for free
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: because my grandma is literally a fairy godmother and will
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: just give me points from her United so that I
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: can fly out there. And it's even so, even so,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: it's still just too freaking expensive. So yeah, I love
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: the con and I really hope people go, and I
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: am sad to not go, but also like I can't,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I can't justify it anymore. So this was my last year,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: and I went knowing that, and I felt like it
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: was nice knowing it was my last year and still
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: being there, like it was very melancholy, but it would
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: have felt weird to like expect to come back and
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: then decide not to. This time, I went being like closure,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: this is closure.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: And I think you saying it's your last year has
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: really kind of It's not that it's talked me into
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: being my last year, but it's like I don't know,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know if I want to go back
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: again for many of the reasons that you were talking about.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a wonderful group of people doing excellent things,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: but it's just hard to go to Ohio and there
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: is a cruise that they have planned, which I have
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: issues with on a lot of levels. So I will
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: not be going, but that is a thing. People are
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: going to continue to find ways to hang out. Obviously,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: the two cons Jordan Watcon exist. It's you know, I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: encourage people to get together. I know there's lots of
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: little regional gatherings that do happen. People just know that
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: they live in a various state and they hang out
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: like meet up with people, have gatherings. It doesn't have
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: to be at a convention. You can all just rent
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: a house and eat pizza. Like that's an option too.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I do love that WACON exists, even if
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I can't go.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: No, I had a couple of conversations with people too,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: because they're saying, you know, we're we're not really sure
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: what to do about content going forward, right because the
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: show has ceased. Walt Con was very much a Yes,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: it was about the books, but it was also a
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: show focused medium. I think we're at this point another
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: inflection point in the wheel of time media landscape, right,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: because you had the media that existed before the show
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: was announced, the media that exists, and then there was
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: a flurry of activity before the show came out, and
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: then once the show came out, you had another group
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: a timeline where people a lot of people fell off,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: but a lot of people kept doing content about the show.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: And now we're in a post show world. Yeah, and
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: some of us have been doing content about the books
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: the whole time. And that's fine, that's not going to change,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: right the new reader, hot book ones, the but you know,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: something like talk around Riad. I think they have to
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: figure out what they're doing going forward because there's no
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: news for them to talk about, and that was a
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: big portion of their content. You know, tvad similar right, Like,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of humor, but a lot of
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: the humor was based around they had a big news
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: segment on the show and they were talking about the
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: show a lot, and.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: So, right series, what does WAT series have to cover
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: if there's no WAT series?
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Right and so, and a lot of these have been
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: very popular, you know, and a lot of these people
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: are the end of walk On and so, you know,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I had one or two people come to me be like,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do about content going forward?
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: We're not really sure what to do. And then my
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: answer is, well, for now, it doesn't affect me that
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: much because we were never doing things about the show.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, our inflection point is on a completely different timeline.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, for completely different reasons. We have an
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: inflection point, but it's yeah, not related to this one.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: And at that point we have options and we've talked
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: about those in the past that we don't need to
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: go into right now. But yeah, it's just it's going
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: to be interesting to see what a lot of the
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Wheel of Time content does and how the Wheel of
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Time community deals with the fact that like we are
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: at a point like we were after the books finished,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: right where, Yeah, you don't expect content to be coming
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: out anytime soon. So and you've kind of rehashed everything
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: about the books, what do you do?
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there is no one answer to that.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: There's no one answer.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: That have to find their own path and it's it's
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: a scary world out there because you always read to yourself.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: But yeah, as a community, what do you do?
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Because I think people thought there would be a lot
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: of growth with the TV show in terms of the
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: community size, and there certainly was.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I certainly did, and yeah there was lots of
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: people have come to the books via the show, right,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: That's been a very real phenomena.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: And someone said, you know, there could be a really
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: boon out there because a lot of people who maybe
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: not have wanted to read the books now that the
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: show is done, they're never going to get an end
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: to their story. So they're going to go back to
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: the books to find out what happened, right, So we
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: could get another influx of people coming in. But you know,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: you don't know, you don't know what it's going to
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: be like going forward. You know, are we going to
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: have a sort of dune light? There's always going to
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: be people finding the books and reading them for the
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: first time. Is I think the one thing that.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: But I don't think they're going to be as popular
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: as they've been in the past. I think we've hit
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: a point where, like some of the classics, it's going
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: to sit on the shelf and people are going to
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: read it.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: It's becoming classic.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: It's becoming classic.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, people will always be making
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: some kind of community around cosplay and fan fiction and
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: stuff because it's part of the fantasy canon, right, and
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: as long as people are playing with the fantasy canon,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: like Wheel of Time will have relevance, right. And then yeah,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: maybe people in their bitterness about the show cancelation, will
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: just throw fan art at that wall, and maybe people
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: will be entertained by that. You never know. There's been
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: some pretty cool pieces of fan art that have been made,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: like in the Reel of Time universe, in the Hunger
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Games universe, like it does exist out there, so like
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: you know, people will continue to find creative outlets for
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: their love of the books.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: And I was never in fan of an animated version
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: of the books until they put out Age of Legends
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: look Back episodes and they were animated, and I thought
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: they were so good, and then they got canceled because
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: that's the whole I want thing, right because IWAT is
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: the company. Sony doesn't have access to the pre real
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: time main timeline. They don't have access to any the
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Age of Legends that's all owned by iwatridiculous whatever. I
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: do think that maybe someday we could take a shot
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: at this as an animated series. I could see I
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: could see it coming back with a little more faithful adaptation,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: because you don't have to worry so much about like,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: it doesn't cost that much more to animate a big
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: explosion than it does two people talking.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, for sure, for sure, a lot less
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: pyrotechnic safety with animated explosions, right yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: And so I just I could I could see them
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: doing something a little more true to the books in
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: an animated format. But do I think that's going to
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: happen anytime soon?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Now it's I love that save what exists because it's
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: giving people an outlet for their energy, But I don't
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: think that we get nice things at this point in
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: the age of streaming.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: There was a point at the end of it where
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: you know, we did they did a big save Watt
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: presentation and at the end of it, Omar got up
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: and said, you know, do we think this campaign is
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: going to change the minds of the big execs. No,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: we don't like this is this is in some ways
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: spitting into the wind, right like, we are not going
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: to change. But it's important that we show that we
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: care about these cancelations. It is important that we show
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: that this is something we want back, you know, and
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: everybody you know, we can we can say like, oh,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: I would be lovely if Apple TV picked it up,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: it would be lovely. But the reality is a lot
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: of the shows that have gotten picked up or on ABC, CBS,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: NBC got canceled and picked up by a streaming service.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: It's very rare for a streaming service to pick up
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: a show that was dropped by another streaming service.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, in great ie o fashion, we're
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: spitting in side blinders very much. We are collectively expressing
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: our rage in a way that is canon consistent and
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: feels productive and like that, you know, again, lovely community,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: lovely people, like we've been dealt a shitthand but we
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: are handling it in a way that is beautiful to witness.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: That's basically everything about our lives and what's been happening
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: over the course of the last book. We could take
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: some time to talk about what actually happened in the book,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: our first Sanderson book, and.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, I think that's it's a This book
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: is very Agwayne and rand focused in a way more
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: so than I think I remember in the past. But
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: I think that's why the Gathering Storm and then what's
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: the next book.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: The next book, towersan Midnight Twers of Midnight.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Are very much happening at the same time. Is something
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think I realized.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Knew that that there was overlapping timelines, but how much
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: like those two books are really happening at the same time.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: And then you go into Memory of Light, which is
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: the last battle, but so much we didn't get to see.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: We saw half the story in this book.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree it was Knowing it intellectually is
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: one thing, but actually processing it in the podcast timeline
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: kind of sense, it's like, oh, yeah, we really are
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: going to be retreading the same timeline with entirely new
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: characters next book. That is not in a weird Winter's
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Heart way, but in a like there's literally too many
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: characters kind of way.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: And I get why he had to do that in
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: simply like, if I include all the characters, I can
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: only get halfway through their plot and will have another,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: you know, slog like book where we don't get any
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: conclusions to the plots that I'm that I'm setting up.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: And so you really have to stick with Rand to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: get Rand to Veins of Gold, right, and you have
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: to stick with them to that whole journey. And he
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: could do Rand in a gwayn but he couldn't also
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: do Paren. He couldn't also do Matt. He couldn't you know,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: he couldn't do the rescue of more Gaze. He couldn't
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: do the unification of the White Cloaks with Paren and
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: him discovery and the battle against Slayer, right, like all
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: those things that are really complicated he really just had
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: to split them into and I get why he did
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: that now, and I get I kind of sort of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: of seeing how he did it in this book, I
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: understand why. But Sanderson writes in a very different style
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: than Jordan, right, I guess the other thing we really
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: came to realize when writing these when reading these books,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: the fine detail that Jordan puts in there that is
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: just layer upon layer upon layer, where every word feels
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: like he's making a four D chess move that's doing
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: at least two different things when he makes that move,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: if not three or four at a time. And I
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: know people are like, but how there's so many words
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: and so much of it's filler. How it's I think
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: podcasting has made me realize how little philler Robert Jordan
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: actually put in. Yes, it may look like piller, because
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: like my god, it's about minor characters, but so many
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: of the lines he puts in matter in the context
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: and tell you what that minor character thinks or is doing,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: and that may or may not affect the main plot,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: but in a lot of cases it does, right, you know,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: or at least in terms of like he's he's justifying
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: the votes in the hall with all of these background
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: lines and background characters, and like it's really really good Sanderson,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: he's just gonna tell you who votes and why they
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: vote that way.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it was subconsciously obvious, but podcasting just
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: makes it impossible to not see exactly where the level
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: of detail has just like it's at a much lower fidelity.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: There's the whole thing is at a much lower fidelity.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: If I was reading these books, I would have to
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: describe Jordan as digital and Sanderson is analog, right.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Oh the way around?
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: M I suppose yes, definitely, yeah, definitely right, yeah.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, Jordan is the full analog.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jordan is analog, right because you yeah, you're right,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: because you can there's a lot of detail in there.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: There's some noise, right if you zoom in too much.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because it's everything.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of noise because everything, everything's in there.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Sanderson is digitized. There's stuff just missing, it's
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: just smoothed out and blocked over.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: Then when you get down to the resolution at which
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: he's digitized the information and there's no more information to
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: gain because it's just oh, this is a one that's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: zero Yeah. And the analogy that's more about their general
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: writing style is Jordan's a gardener and Sanderson is an architect. Right,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: So you walk into Jordan's garden, you're gonna see, yes, structure,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: but it's the plants are growing themselves in a lot
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: of ways. Whereas Sanderson, you know, every line is defined,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: but then there's a lot less detail in the structure. Right,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: that's a wall. It's not necessarily a wall with a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: lot of detail and flowers growing through it.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: Right, It's not a living wall. It's a brick wall. Yeah,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: which I mean is like totally valid styles. Like, it's
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: not a critique, it's just an observation. And the transition book,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: this transition for us has definitely been different, seeing how
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: it makes sense to bundle chapters together in a much
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: different way. It felt like we like we obviously didn't
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: speed run the book. It still took us the average
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: nine months that it always takes, but it felt more
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: like a speed run because there were more chapters to
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: pack into a given episode of content. Because that really worked.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: We did a lot of bumblings and they did not
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: take an excessive amount of time.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know, and what I'll say with Sanderson is
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: as I read his chapters, I can see in a plot,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: a B plot, a sea plot, right, and I can
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: see how he's interacting with those, and like, it's very
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: obvious in a plot, B plot, C plot, you know
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: what those three plots are. You don't really have to
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: think that much harder, Right, He's because he writes in
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: this very Jordan. He always included a few things in
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: there that made me go, I don't really know why
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: that's in there. Wait, and then twenty chapters later you're like, oh,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: because he was making a reference to something that was
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: going to happen much later on, or something that happened earlier,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: or you know, oh, those two characters are the same character,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: even though the description is slightly different because you're seeing
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: it from them described by two different povs. It's close
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: enough that you can make that link and then see
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: how those characters, how what's happening over here is affecting
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: what the character's saying over there. But he's not going
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: to tell you those are the same characters. You have
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: to make that connection on your own. Connect those two scenes,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: connect those two statements, and for me as a podcaster,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: that's more interesting than being told, yeah, oh yeah, this
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: character doesn't care because of what he the interaction that happened,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: you know, three months ago. And Sanderson, in a lot
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: of ways, is always going to be easier to read
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: because he's always going to tell you those things up front,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: and so in that way, he's he's a lighter read.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I love his cosmo stuff
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: because it is just entertaining, right, it's light fluff. It's entertaining.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: He's got a very good world built, but it is
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: shallow in a way that Jordan isn't. And it doesn't
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: make it an inferior product, but it does make it
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: harder to podcast about.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's where we do have a professional
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: like actual value judgment is like, it is not quite
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: as much fun to podcast through. It's fun to talk
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: about the books with my friends. I do enjoy that,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: but there's a lot less of like academic level digging
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: into it to be done, which is fine. It's you know.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Whatever, Yeah, and I enjoy the characters and.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: We're in the conclusion of the books, so like it.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: If there was ever a time for a Sander Lancy approach,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: it is the end of these series.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: Right, And I do have to wonder, how you know,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: how much would Jordan have ever finished the series? Is
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: one of those questions that I always have to ask myself, right.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: Like sure, so fair, so fair?
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: And he was always a couple more books, always one
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: more book, you know, And even if you said one
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: more book is obviously you can't do what he needed
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: to do in one more book, right, he would have
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: had the right at least the three. Those three would
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: have bloomed out because they need to a little bit.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: You and I both agree they could be longer. Yeah,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: So is there a point would this have been a
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: twenty book series if Jordan had been the one writing
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: it would have ever gotten finished? I don't know. I
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: think we have a lot to thanks Anderson for in
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: terms of finishing the books, writing a solid conclusion, making
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: some decisions that are limiting. Right. We don't get some
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: characters at the end, we don't get some conclusions we
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: care about, but we have an ending. Yeah.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: And again, as I've said repeatedly about this book, this
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: is Sanderson's first of the three, so it is the
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: weakest of the three, and I think we will have
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: a little bit more fun with his style as he
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: gets a little more comfortable with what he's doing in
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: book two, and also working with a character that he
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: has unlimited flexibility with Paren will give I hope more
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: fun for us to play with because we'll be more
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: in a space that Sanderson is comfortable writing in. I hope.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: M Yeah. I think the one thing I just don't
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: get as much with Sanderson is the oh my god,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I never realized that moments because he
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: just tells you straight out on the page what it is.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: So that won't change.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: That won't change. But I do think there's a lot
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: of fun and I certainly we had a lot of
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: fun with the second half of this book, right.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: As he got more comfortable.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, you know, the sander Lanche is
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: a thing, right, this avalanche of stuff that happens at
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: the end of his books the first half. And he's
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: gotten a little bit better about that as he's continued
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: to write, like he's able to spread out his fun
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: stuff a little bit more over the books. But like these,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: these were some of his earlier books, and so there
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: is just heavy sander Lanche at the end. Same thing
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: with with with Paren at the end of the next book,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Parent and Matt right, Like, I mean, we get to
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: Tower Genji and you know, just incredible. There's a lot,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: there's a lot happening at the end of the book,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: and Paren, you know, doing his his super cool teleporting thing.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: That's that's the end of this book.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because then he sees veins of gold at
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: the end.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: That's right at the end. Right, So those are both
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: like really cool moments for those characters. But again, I
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: expect there to be some sander Lanche in this next book.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: I expect the first few chapters to be a little
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: hard to get through, as he sets things up and
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: as we do a lot of recapping and that sort
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: of thing, and then I expect the second half of
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: the book to be very exciting and very action filled.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that means that our expectations for the
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: prologue needing three parts are misplaced. Probably not. It's a
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: pretty key prologue. Prologues are cool.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Prologs are usually cool.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: Verry, he was very Jordanian and his prologue.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: Has Yes, yes, I would say he put more effort
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: into the prologues than almost any other chapter except the ending.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Which honestly works For me as a reader, if the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: prologue slaps, I will slog through so much bullshit to
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: get to the end of the book where it all
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: comes together. If the prologue really hooks me like, I
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: will put up with a lot.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: A good prologue asks you the question, you know, do
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: you want to find out the answer to this mystery?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: And I think that's why I really like the prolog
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: to the Heigh of the World, even though so many
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: people find it off putting. Is it's like and that's why,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: And it got me into the books in a way
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think a normal prologue in the Two Rivers
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: the Raven's prologue did is because I wanted to know,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: who are the rods nine Rods of Dominion? What's this?
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: You know? Give me more information about all the hints
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: and shit that you dropped in this first chapter. And
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: then sure it dropped me into the Two Rivers, where
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: everything's very common, very medieval sci fi fantasy world that
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: I can be very familiar with. Great love it, but
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: I still have all those questions. Right, three thousand years earlier,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: something happened and now it's affecting the world and I
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: think that's a really cool hook, and I think it's
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: one Sanderson stole for his own books, right, Like, if
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: you read the prologue of the Stormline Archive, there's this
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: like it's fifty thousand years, right, He's going even further
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: back as we kind of understand the depth of what
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: time is. Three thousand years is like nothing.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, depends on what you're measuring with. But yeah, no, totally,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: And I think I'm nodding. I think that the prologue,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: the uniqueness of the prologue, and then the drop into
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: normalcy definitely as part of what hooked me when I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: first started. I guess I would have read the book
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: either way, but would I have been so intrigued to
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: see that connective tissue for book two, three, four five,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Like that prologue, you're just like, but so so many
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: gaps to fill in between the prologue and whatever's happen here.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: And then when we went back to the prologue we
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: filled in a lot of those gays. We're like, Oh,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: he's using the true power, and that's something you don't
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: really understand until book like eight. You know, like it's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: it's incredible how much of that prologue is in the
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: rest of the books, and that DNA. You know, the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: fact that Lewis Theren says there's nobody around, And it
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: took us much much later to realize, Oh, that's the
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: Dragon being alone with the land. That's not any one
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: power thing. That's just his ability to sense people. But
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: it works in canon, and it's so well done, and yeah.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and the way you get to the
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: end and you read it and you're like, this feels
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: like nineteen ninety Jordan. There's this piece at the end
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: that's just like, it feels like nineteen ninety Jordan. This
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: is I of the World Jordan.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: You mean, like last Battle, Rand in the Dark One.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Stuff, the literal end of the of the books, like
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: the actual ending, also the Rand of the Dark One stuff.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: But like, just as you get to that final conclusion,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: you're like, he wrote so much of this, yeah, at
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: the beginning, and has been writing towards it the whole time.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: The slog the extra books, all the side quests, all
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: the everything that he didn't anticipate, all of it was
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: still bent towards this thing that he knew he had
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: already written. It's just mind blowing and the prologue. He
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: wrote that as part of all the same thing. You
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: could feel it in the prolog, and you can feel
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: it at the literal very end, and like then, I
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: mean I heard a rumor somewhere that he wanted the
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: prolog to be a titled epilogue originally, and like, yeah,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: you kind of loop back around and it feels like
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: the same person talking to you at the beginning and
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: the end. Like he just so meta, so meta. I
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: love his brain.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm really looking forward to the next two
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: books because I think that we are. I mean, I'm
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: just I'm excited to finish the series. I don't know,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: like I can't. I'm getting that anticipation of like, oh
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: my god, we're actually gonna finish the series as a podcast.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really excited to do Tower of Genji. I
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: feel like Gee is one of the most like we've
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: been waiting for this and we knew how it was
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: going to go, and it slaps so hard even though
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: you know what's going to happen, because the Finn are
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: the way they are, and like, I'm looking forward to
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed the action sequences as we've gone through
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: this podcast. This book, I've like the big battle scenes.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: It's been really really fun. So I'm really looking forward
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: to doing Tower of Genji as a podcast conversation. Yeah,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: it's it's good times. I'm enjoying the process. Even though
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: the Sanderson of it all is a thing, it's it's working,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: it's still fun. I'm still having a good time talking
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: with you and our audience about these books. And yeah,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: glad to be here.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: No, and for me, because I didn't I don't feel
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: like I know the last three books as well as
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: the rest of the series. This has been a really
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: nice way to feel like I'm getting to know those
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: books intimately in a way that I feel like I
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: never had before and have been struggling with. So for
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: the first time, I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, no, I
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: get what's going on in these books, and I gets
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: what's happening. You know, teaching is how you learn, right,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: and like we're teaching each other about these books every
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: day that we have podcast.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really good point that, like, yeah, I
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: have struggled so hard to internalize these last three books,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: like I'm not going to listen to them twelve times
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: in isolation of the rest of the series, right, Like
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: that wouldn't really make sense, and it's just like, how
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: do I learn them as well as I know the others?
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Podcasting through them? Podcasting through them is the cheat code
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: to that. So yeah, I'm like that you're doing this.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great way to segue into podcasting
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: and through them. When we come back next week.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, when we come back, we will be starting prologue,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: part one of three, probably four Towers of Midnight, So
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: make sure to stay tuned for that and check out
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: my other podcasts because I'm doing other podcasts. Used to
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: sow with a number two to make it really funny,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: and then autistic stuff for autistic people with no puns,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: no numerals, just literally the words.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Stay healthy, stay wet. See you next time, and we'll
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: probably do Patreons at the beginning of the.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Next Patreons next week. We'll start start next week with
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: patre told me bye for real.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media for
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, Visit our website
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: at foxendravenmedia dot com.