Latest / I Am Wiser Podcast with Dr. Laura Purdy / AI Won’t Replace You, But It Will Change You

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AI Won’t Replace You, But It Will Change You · I Am Wiser Podcast with Dr. Laura Purdy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you save one life, let's say you do 40,000 states, and one mother estate, that's a whole family state.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: The second portion of it is if you heard a person, it is as if you heard a whole of them.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at artificial intelligence, there are two high stakes.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: One is military and one is military.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them and why we call them high stakes.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the I am lighter podcast, where the biggest questions in healthcare and wellness meet the collective wisdom of industry leaders and innovators.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dr.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Laura Hurdy, and here we explore the intersections of AI, care delivery, telehealth policy, and more.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Through the lens of those who are reshaping healthcare.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is not just about theory, it's about lived experience and real industry insights.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive in and get wiser together.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the I'm Wiser Podcast with Dr.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Laura Purdy, where I explore the real stories behind groundbreaking healthcare innovations and the human impact they have on patients and providers.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: On that note, I'm delighted to welcome Dr.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Janaid Khalia, a leader in the field of AI and healthcare innovation, and the founder of SaveLife.ai.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Today, Dr.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Khalia is going to share powerful emotional stories from his journey at the intersection of artificial intelligence and patient care.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Stories that will leave you feeling wiser, more hopeful, and ready to embrace the future of healthcare.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining me today.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Dr.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Purdy.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure, and I've been a long fan of your podcast and hope I have become more wiser and can share some of my wisdom today.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's become wiser together.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that in today's day and age, there are a lot of people who would consider themselves to be or they would call themselves self-proclaimed leaders of the AI revolution.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: But looking at your resume and the companies that you've founded and even the brief time we've spent discussing your stance on the AI revolution, I think you are really a true leader in the AI revolution of healthcare.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me a little bit about, let's start with who you are, what you're working on today, and why you're doing it.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Janaid Kalia, neurocritical care, stroke and epilepsy specialist out of Dallas, Texas.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I am generally working as a teleneurointensivist or telestroke physician, and I chose to go towards virtual care as compared to in-person care, was number one, of course, compassion fatigue and dealing with neuroICU with large bleeds in the brain is is emotionally tolling.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: But more importantly, what I realized when I was doing my virtual care that I could reach rural areas in US, of course, where there is so much need, there's not enough neurologists.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt very excited to provide high-level sub-specialty care at the point where it's most needed, where you know a Quaternary Center is somewhere between 50 to 100 miles away.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: While I was providing this much care, uh, we are using some KI softwares.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are amazing companies, Visi, Rapid AI, etc., that were developing softwares that could help us deal with improving the time.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the time and the latency is so important in stroke care because every second, 32,000 neurons die.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let me repeat that.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: One second, 32,000 neurons die.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to bring these technologies to, you know, I'm originally from India, Pakistan, Gujarat area, and I wanted to make sure that this is available to, you know, low-income countries.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I started a project, and then when I realized that this project is gonna be amazing and important, then I turned it into an actual company.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we call the company Save Life AI because the main tenet, the mission of the company is if you save a life, it is as if you save a life of all mankind.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you save one life, it is as if you have saved the lives of all mankind.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now that that is the type of wisdom that we are after right now.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So let me ask you this.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: How did you come about that piece of wisdom?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Did you, I mean, you are a neurocritical care intensivist, so you see some of the sickest, most imminent, most dire patients in life who you said what, 32,000 neurons per second.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Did you develop that after your work or did you go into this work with that mentality?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, honestly, um I I started as a startup investor.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've invested in quite a few companies.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I actually led a due diligence for two major VC funds as well.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what I never wanted to bring, you know, make a company because I know exactly how hard it is.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like people who there there's actually here's a piece of wisdom that I from the my favorite movie Matrix.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Huge problem, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people think, oh, well, you can do this, this, this.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's it's insane if you actually get to do it because that's where the real crux of the matter is, where the rubber beats the road.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea was to not make the company, but nobody was so nobody.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can really relate to that, by the way.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can very much relate to that.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the the question was that what was the key differential that I wanted to bring in the technology?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, and what why was it different from available solutions?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the key issues over here in the US is that we still have reasonable networks, by the way.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Asia, Europe, and uh Middle East is definitely better in wireless technology at the moment, given, you know, within the last three years itself, with the revolution of 5G, they leapfrogged the fiber.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But still, there's electricity issues, et cetera.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to bring that technology in a way that could be feasible, portable, and available for both.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, definitely we're talking about uh, you know, low-income countries where the internet is an issue.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we developed the model in a way that can be put into this.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually a$135 device.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if you buy it now, you know, internationally, it's$75.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is USB-C powered, like your phone.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: What does it do?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is that your thing?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is literally where my model sits, and it can sit next to the any CAT scan, chest x-ray, portable chest x-ray, portable mammography machine, and it can literally do on device, which is called edge AI.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then all the images go in, all the images go out, and then this actually shoots a message right away to the radiologist: hey, this is an acute case.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: We think it's a bleed.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we think.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Always remember we're a very ethical company.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: We are FDA class 2A clinical decision support, approved, uh clear, whatever that name is, but which is class 2A.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know what you mean.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's just so freaking confusing.
• 7:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea was to provide AI at the point of care in a way that is safe, secure, privacy-preserving.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because why upload and download images?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's another because bandwidth issues and everything.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not that in the US we still have to do it because of medical legal reasons, more so than anything.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea was to actually bring in a technology that can really save lives and limbs.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we first started with the you know automated detection at lead in the brain.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second one we are doing building is essentially breast density and breast mass detection.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Again, think of it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you we I can go into a whole detail, but even radiologists still get sued for the most so for the best mammography the most.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Again, very clear business case.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Never, never never build a product or a company without a business case, which is another piece of advice I'll tell you.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: You want to do it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Don't try to solve problems that don't exist.
• 8:01
  unknown: Right.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: You want to do good in the world, but somebody has to pay for it at some point in time.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be this way, but somebody has to pay for it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so, therefore, you always solve a problem that is reimbursable, and then medical legal itself.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And think about it.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you save one life in one year, that's it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not asking for too much.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you do 40,000 scans and one mother is saved.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole family saved.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, do you understand?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and then you didn't.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, dads are great.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll, you know, I have two daughters.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Not knocking on the dads, of course.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: But dude, like what my wife does is just insane.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can never catch up.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just a positive woman.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, it's it's insane how much she can do, uh, doing everything.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, what what I'm saying is that that this disease processes, these pathologies that at least we are after are basically what we call high impact.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Either it's saving lives or saving limbs.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So in the stroke, it will not be just lives, it will be saving limbs, but in terms of breasts.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you find a mask, it is so easy.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: You make a small nick, literally, we can do it uh at the office, take it out, sew it up, and move on.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention, I mean, a lot of cosmetic changes can be uh, you know, not needed as because of this, which is of course, I mean, huge psychological impact as well.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we are going one at a time, targeting areas in which we can deliver on edge.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: That is the most important part, which is very different than the larger companies, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Google wants to build a foundation model.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you need freaking a city to power that, right?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's that's really the difference that we want to bring in because we want we think that we want to make 500 small models that are only activated at the time.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: CT scan, brain, activate this model, you know, mammography, activate this model, chest x-ray, activate this model.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you are condensing models, and then they become what we call CNN models.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: It has an NPU, which is called neural processing unit.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: But believe it or not, most of the processing is done on just a CPU.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: You do not need a GPU, you do not need an NPU, and therefore it is accessible, and that is the key problem globally.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And people don't understand that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just gonna say in the US, accessibility still is an issue.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the world.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And accessibility is absolutely still an issue, yes.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: But what I'm hearing, so it's very interesting because I'm sure you've heard I know you've heard it, but people talk about AI, and AI is a hot topic of controversy right now.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And what I hear people say is, oh, AI is going to replace doctors, we're gonna have AI practicing medicine, which is not the case, and we know that it's not the case.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what I'm hearing you say is it's almost functioning like a screening test.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is not designed to diagnose, but it is designed to, okay, I'm gonna go all the way back to my epidemiology classes in medical school.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's designed to shorten the amount of time from existence to detection and then diagnosis, not providing the diagnosis on behalf of the doctor, but saying, hey, we think this patient is at a higher risk due to the things that I can detect.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm speaking as Edge now.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Edge says, I have detected these things, which tells me this patient is at risk for X.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, doctor.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I am a positive screening test, and you should act on it based off of the algorithm.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do I have that right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what I'm hearing?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: You are so absolutely on point.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, going back to the same thing, there's a difference between knowing the path and walking a path.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And just to let you know, when you when she says that I'm a leader, I actually give a very famous job.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Distinguishing Hike from Value about artificial intelligence in healthcare.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so goddamn important to understand the you know the music from the noise.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you're absolutely right.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: You need to choose leaders, listenings, etc., to understand who to listen to.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is so much garbage out there that you need to concentrate where the uh music is as compared to noise.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So coming back to your question, now you uh essentially, where do you see yourself in terms of artificial intelligence in the next three to five years?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just gonna be honest with you, it is essentially hard to do so.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: However, doing said that that we we have a line, and everyone says that line, it's not me.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's those who use AI will replace those who do not use AI.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's number one point.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So why do I say that?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that we have developed is radiology reporting solution.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: You just speak your intent, it will complete the whole goddamn radiology report for you, ICD 10, CPD codes, and move on.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, why would I sit there and search ICD 10 codes?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know that, and I know that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is a stupid requirement.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like ICD 10 was the international classification of disease from World Health Organization that I'm using for billing.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the hell is going on here?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, so what I'm saying is exactly.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's total bullshit, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what yes, it's not my job to sit and do that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, let me go back to give you another interesting statistic.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: According to AMA guidelines, in the next five to seven years, we're gonna have a shortage of 56,000 physicians.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have a shortage of around 10 to 15,000 radiologists.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because people don't understand, again, that the technology has not only improved AI, what technology has done is that you I was at Arab Health uh in Dubai, and then uh you if you looked at the show, there was Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese companies who were bringing portable chest x-rays for as low as$15,000.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Remember those days, uh, Dr.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Pradi, when we have to go and find uh wait for an echocardiogram ultrasonographer was sitting with a$150,000 machine.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now the portable ultrasound you can buy on Amazon for$5,000.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So think about the amount of imaging that's gonna increase.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna read it?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do understand?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that what I'm saying is that number one, AI is gonna work as your assistant 24-7.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: It will never make decisions, it should not make decisions because let's say it will give you a bleed in the brain, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Supposedly.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then the normal course of action is decrease the blood pressure, do this, etc.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that the patient is on LVAC, which is actually literally hooking his blood, you know, his heart is not working and his machine is actually circulating the blood.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: The minute I stop blood thinners, the whole body is gonna clod over.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the breed is this small.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's where the intuition comes in.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I would talk to the patient and say, hey, I'm gonna rock in a hard place.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm gonna stop your blood thinner, you're gonna clod over and die from kidney, liver, and scores, multiple strokes, and not to mention blindness and everything.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or if I continue, you do have a chance of increasing the bleed.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard place, but this is where real decisions really come in, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right now, I mean, if you look at it, this is where somebody will call me from the cardiovascular ICU and surgical ICU to you know talk about it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna call me, hey, do you do we need to add aspirin, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know, we have we have already have intern residence fellows.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: We know what to do with the aspirin.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: What what I'm yeah, exactly.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to think about these this area.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: What AI is gonna do is take care of that 80%.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that 80% is most of the time is paperwork and knowing shit.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, once you take care, once you take care of that, that's when you take care of it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: You concentrate on that 20% so much more.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: You spend time with that, make sure they understand the pros and cons.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure the wife understands the pros and cons.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: If wife or husband, spouse, whatever.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that you know, that you tell them, hey, God forbid things are gonna go.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did you get your will in order?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why shouldn't why should I need to make it basically make sure I'll have to take care of the whole patient from brain to the toe?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But not only that, the whole social situation, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is he married?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Does he have kids?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's going on?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we can't do that because I'm sitting there finding a correct ICD 10 code.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I was a I was a hospitalist before I started doing healthcare and startups, and I'm really feeling your pain right now.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm relating to what you're saying because I was a hospitalist at a very small community hospital with very few specialists and was doing all of it, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: All of it.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: But we're talking about being a steward of the resource of the specialist time and using tools like AI to take care of the work that doesn't have to be done by the neurocritical care ICU intensivist subspecialist, and only saving that work that you must do for you or the cardiologist or the surgeon or the on down the line, saving the work that only they must do to be done by them is the best way to steward the resource and also not burn people out, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like why why are so many doctors leaving the field right now?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of it does have to do with ICD 10 codes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, we have a suit, we have a solution for clinical documentation.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to worry about it, both ISAMD and the radiology.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So no longer is it an issue.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: But uh more importantly, so that is where AI really comes in.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let me give you another example.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I run an AI company, have uh, you know, 12 AI engineers, 20 uh full stack engineers and stuff.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then right now I can code.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I used to code, of course, but then I stopped because it's a no, we know it really is not easy.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And now with the help of AI quoters, I started it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: What it did was in that in that field, I'm a novice.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just a junior, right?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not an attending or anything.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But with the AI quoters, what happened was that I can get to 80% quickly.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last 20% still needs to be done by a professional AI engineer, professional software engineer, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is exactly, I mean, I cannot take it to the end.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: But me, given that I have I get so much easier to give the whole clinical context in a Python format as compared to a Word format, that things are moving so extremely fast.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what I want to tell you that AI impacts the most who are actually basically at an area where they're generalists or starting off.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: They are the junior person that starts in my team catches up so much quickly in terms of understanding the code on boarding.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly, you're gonna see that nurse practitioners, physician assistants, generalists, hospitalists even will take, okay, before you call the cardiologist, the AI assistant, and told you that you need these investigations.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, get them done first so that by the time when the cardiologist comes in, you actually have a very intelligent conversation.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than he's gonna come in first, then he's gonna say, order this, then he's gonna go back, then you're gonna call them, okay, this investigation is back.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand that time?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And think about it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just that bed is$3,000, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: In the hospital.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you say one day, you paid for the whole investigations.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you did.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, it's kind of sad when you think about it that way, but also amazing when you think about it that way.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, uh hell economics is always hard.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, of course, we have to look at ROI, which is return on investment.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But as you know, uh, with your amazing uh profound experience in virtual care, virtual care ROI is not that much.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's the value with Prince, which I call value on investment.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the value of investment, right?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you drop one transfer out of the whole, you know, system in three months, if you drop one helicopter ride, do you know how much a helicopter ride?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have I was the director of Neurologic, I was the director of Stro.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to like look at through this and I said, oh my God, this is really the number, the ambulance ride?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is this the number for hospital?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because we are like flying people, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it costs.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh my God, it's not I mean with this money, I can have 16 different sodium machines in all the so I was like, so one transfer.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the economics is in healthcare, is as your podcast is prominent about, is not just about return on investment in terms of what we call hard ROI, which is also about soft ROI in terms of you know decreasing transfers and all of that, and of course, decreasing iterations, decreasing nurses.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Nurses really want to, in rural areas, want to take care of these patients.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, well, you take all the good patients or you know, something more actively that I have to get involved in.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: So uh they are also iterations, etc.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So combining both hard ROI and soft ROI is what we call VOI value on investment.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: My goodness, I I'm learning so much today.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I thank you for being here with me today.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I have another question for you, and I want to know what you think because so for someone like me, I have not spent a lot of time, I've never built an AI solution, I've never worked on an AI solution, I've never been at a company that was working on an AI solution.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have been in the delivery of care, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I am more so involved in what happens between the clinician and the patient.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: That interaction, that's where I live.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: So now, as a founder of a digital health tech startup, several brands.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I am bombarded almost every single day with someone trying to sell me some kind of AI solution, whether it's for my clinic, whether it's for my back office, whether it's for my calendar or my social media management?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you name it because I run the whole company, but I am bombarded in email, on LinkedIn, on Instagram.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: How do I, and then maybe the listeners as well, how do we, as people who are not in the AI industry, but we are in an industry that we will become obsolete if we don't use AI, let's be real.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: How do I be a good consumer?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I know what's music and what's noise?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: How can you tell?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or can you tell?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the key impactful factors in terms of uh, as I told you about from initially, that it is very, very important that physicians do become stewards.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's why I give this talk, Distinguishing Value from Hype.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just gonna show you one example, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: The hype was in 2020 that we're gonna have self-driving cars in two years.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this, I mean, the godfather of Jeffrey Hinton said radiologists will be obsolete in five years.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And all my radiologist friends are driving to go at the moment.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome, actually.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So for the the key problem here is that where is the opportunity?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is an immense opportunity and there is immense value.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: We actually did put out a guide for you know people, and then you actually have to have a what we call um, you know, understanding that you do not buy softwares just because you are not looking for vendors.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You really need to have what we call a partner mentality because you can have unique challenges, you can have workflow problems that are not that are unique to you.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not just because, you know, you're a hospital, you're not a generic hospitalist, you are a community, rural community hospitals where there's only one, you know, uh specialist, and the neurologist only comes online because, you know, uh, and then also takes forever.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's two or twice a week you will have an oncologist.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: These are unique challenges to your specific workflow and needs.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we do is that we what we do is we always think that we should role of an AI champion within the system, that you have strategic alignment, executive sponsorship means that somebody's gonna pay for it, that means a board member or something, and then you go for a multi-stakeholder assessment.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that multi-stakeholder assessment means that you first of all always look for cybersecurity, seamless integration, because if it's no integrated in Epic, Cerner, et cetera, it's not gonna work.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna tell you right now.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then clinical fork, investing in and then strategic partnerships and multimodal capabilities.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we come up with a framework for all my CIO CTO friends, and then always involve a patient representative.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, to cut it short, of course, I'm not gonna go into this whole presentation.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a village from what I'm seeing.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a village.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because the what is that cost?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna give you the second portion.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you save a life, it is as if you save a life of all mankind.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, it is from Old Testament and the Quran.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where better to find wisdom, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm the second portion of it is if you hurt a person, it is as if you hurt the whole of mankind.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that is the the divine thinking, in my opinion, to make sure that you understand how important human life is.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where our problem comes in.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at artificial intelligence, there are two high sticks: one is military and one is medicine.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them are why we call them high sticks.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Save lives or lose lives, right?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: So those are literally life and death.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So do not ever get caught up in the hype.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Always communicate that we actually have a process.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Always, I mean, people come and say, uh, I want to buy this your software and say, okay, but no, you have to go try these two.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm just gonna be honest with you, this is new transformation.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I go and talk to people.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: We live through what we call digital transformation till 2010.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: We went from paper charts, pen and paper to you know, iPad, right?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was digital transformation.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have e-clinical, you know, you have what we call electronic medical records.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are living in through a completely new transformation.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: We call it AI transformation, where you're moving from a system in which you look up the information through 16 clicks, you know, that by a thousand clicks, to just voicing it at the least.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what was give me the last 10 sodiums and how has that changed?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna pull up that.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that AI transformation is gonna be hard.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna make mistakes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to make sure that a this is also a tool like any other tool.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: You have to learn how to use it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you learn how to use your phone, learn how to use your electronic medical records, learn how to use you know, uh, EKG machines, EKG, you think of it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, choose a tool carefully, methodically, always look at different solutions.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's my solution, please go look at other solutions.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then lastly, make sure that you have that particular provider is no longer a vendor but a partner.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the key difference between a vendor and a partner?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna come and onboard you properly.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you use the two most effectively and understand what these limitations are.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you look at a nail, everything's a hammer, but the problem is you have to make sure that you cannot use a hammer for a you know, Philip screwdriver, and that's where physicians and that's what we have been good about, right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about the whole of goddamn residencies have been you use this medication, but oh, by the way, you cannot use it over here.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, exactly clinical decision making, right?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Clinical decision making.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why FDA actually uses the pathway for software as a medical device.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm familiar with the PMD, class two way, and that's what we are approved about.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at it, the first thing I have to write down is use of uh indication of use.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing I have to submit in the ESR family.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, what I'm saying is that this is a tool, there's a specific indication, use it accordingly.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's fantastic.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Three things.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I hope.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: So part of the way you can tell.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, you answered my question in a million different ways.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I hear it takes a village, I hear don't buy into the hype, which so what I'm what I'm guessing is any sort of fantastical or outlandish, like if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is all electric cars in two years or no more radiologists in five years.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, those are kind of hyperbolic, too good to be true statements.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then third of all, uh this is my paraphrase.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: The vendor needs to be or partner needs to be invested in your success with their tool, not just selling it to you and then ghosting you to use a common cultural term.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: But they need to be invested in your success with their tool as an institution and prove that to you, not just say it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh is I think an AI champion, uh the only thing I would add again is which I didn't properly say it, that within the organization, there needs to be an AI champion.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like even in my organization, right?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: When I was just choosing an AI coder, or I was choosing a new AI base for my marketing graphics, or same thing that you're talking about, you know, Riverside, which is our application right now where we're using, or should we choose something else?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: We appoint a person who goes in, looks at the features, talks to them, always communicates with the team before pre-sale that how fast their communication is for sale.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they're slow in sales, how are they gonna do the service?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we look at the we look at these kind of things, and then of course, a recommendation is produced, and then we a couple of people sit down, make an assessment, and then make the purchase.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Again, always never buy a full year, we always go month to month.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: These are set principles or guidelines that we have set up in our corporate culture.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now we come to the last one, which is medicine.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, people forget, you know, the AMA and everything.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have seen that there's a cross and there's a snake on it, and that is actually what we call the medicine.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Believe it or not, the origin of true medicine is from snake oil.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is where the snake comes from.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you have all the medicine that have everything will have a snake on it?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that doesn't make sense because the first few of these were, you know, were snake oil.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: In medicine, unfortunately, you have to be extremely, very, amazingly careful.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I can give you examples, but these are great companies uh already that got dinged by FDA.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm saying is that that you have to be very careful for cybersecurity and compliance and regulation.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because that will really be problematic, uh honestly problematic uh for your organization if you do not do thorough research.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, Dr.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Kalia, I have learned so much today, and I'm gonna go appoint an AI champion because we have a lot of workflows to automate.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's my takeaway is I need to not be the champion and find someone who is, which is okay, right?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: We have to know our limits.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm not a graphic designer, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, nope.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to find my graphic designer and say, hey, go figure this out because you're gonna be the right expert, domain expert to do this.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're fine.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I just wanted to let you know that we are we are out of time today.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that wraps up our interview.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much for sitting down with me.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: You are a fascinating person with so much wisdom.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think we got 15 pearls of wisdom from this episode.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: So very, very high yield, which tells me, which tells me that you've done what you've done with intentionality and you've done it on purpose, and you've done it with and for a higher purpose because that's the only place wisdom can come from.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for what you're doing, why you're doing it, and and thank you for being here.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Extremely grateful to be part of this.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for tuning in to the I Am Wiser Podcast.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: For each episode brings us closer to a wiser, more human approach to health care.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: If today's conversation inspired you or sparked new ideas, share it with someone who's ready to rethink health care.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a more innovation that can light the way for others recount, we'd love to hear from you.
• 33:10
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• 33:12
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• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, stay curious, stay courageous, and stay lighter.