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Christmastide, When Will It End? And The Lost Ornaments · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 41 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:34
  I Hate Talking: Now, Christmas is over.
• 0:36
  I Hate Talking: It is at the time of this recording, January of 2025.
• 0:40
  I Hate Talking: Oh yeah, but you're still wearing a Christmas sweater.
• 0:45
  I Hate Talking: Yeah.
• 0:47
  I Hate Talking: First, this is my warmest sweater and we've had a lot of snow and coldness.
• 0:52
  I Hate Talking: I don't know, is that a bad thing to wear a sweater in January?
• 0:56
  I Hate Talking: Well, I think sweaters are more than appropriate, but.
• 1:00
  I Hate Talking: Like I said, Christmas is over.
• 1:02
  I Hate Talking: Oh, I know, but it's uh it's.
• 1:06
  I Hate Talking: I don't know.
• 1:07
  I Hate Talking: What is the word you're looking for.
• 1:08
  I Hate Talking: It's more like a state of mind than a date on the calendar.
• 1:13
  I Hate Talking: Hm, January is on the calendar now and Christmas is December 25th.
• 1:19
  I Hate Talking: Only 300.
• 1:21
  I Hate Talking: 50 days away.
• 1:23
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so.
• 1:25
  I Hate Talking: And there's the 12 Days of Christmas, which that's passed now as well.
• 1:29
  I Hate Talking: If you start on day one as Christmas Day and count 12, I guess we would have made it to January 6th or something like that.
• 1:36
  I Hate Talking: Is that the end of the Christmas season officially?
• 1:38
  I Hate Talking: I mean, in some cultures, I think, and beliefs, that's what we've done because I get, yeah, I guess we'll talk about that.
• 1:48
  I Hate Talking: Are we talking about right now?
• 1:49
  I Hate Talking: We are recording right now, so we are talking, even though we may hate talking.
• 1:54
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I'm really tired.
• 1:56
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, January 6th is in some cultures when they end of Christmas celebration, and it's been good for us.
• 2:05
  I Hate Talking: For me, because I like that little bit.
• 2:10
  I Hate Talking: It's like a winding down for us.
• 2:12
  I Hate Talking: Like, the 25th is obviously really big, maybe a couple days after that, and then it just stops and it makes my heart so sad.
• 2:20
  I Hate Talking: But that's like a winding down, but we do have all our Christmas decorations down.
• 2:26
  I Hate Talking: And I'm still wearing my Christmas clothes, but it's because it's warm.
• 2:29
  I Hate Talking: It's not because I think it's Christmas.
• 2:32
  I Hate Talking: I haven't listened to a Christmas song that I did a couple days, but It's cause this is my warmest sweater, that's why I have it on.
• 2:41
  I Hate Talking: Do you think people think, would think it's odd if I walked around wearing this right now?
• 2:46
  I Hate Talking: Like outside No, it's Probably wintery enough that it probably would not really draw many second glances or anything.
• 2:57
  I Hate Talking: It is, I would say, if you study the sweater definitively, Christmas, right, because it is red, it has Christmas trees on it.
• 3:06
  I Hate Talking: And I think if somebody really took the time to determine whether it was a quote unquote Christmas-themed sweater or not, they would come to the conclusion that it is Christmas themed.
• 3:18
  I Hate Talking: But it's not like so crazy, like ugly Christmas sweater type style that it would really draw all that much attention.
• 3:27
  I Hate Talking: Are you judging me though right now for wearing this?
• 3:30
  I Hate Talking: To be honest, I had not even really noticed until I sort of saw that and thought it would be funny to include in the episode.
• 3:37
  I Hate Talking: So that does bring us to our word or phrase of the episode, and that word or phrase is Christmas tide, which does describe those 12 days of Christmas.
• 3:50
  I Hate Talking: So Christmas tide is the liturgical, mostly in Anglican, Episcopalian, but in general, the Christian calendar, the season of Christmas, specifically from Christmas until into the new year.
• 4:07
  I Hate Talking: And I guess it's a maybe a little bit confusing and maybe we even have our dates a bit incorrect here, but Christmas tide actually starts at sunset on Christmas Eve, December 24th.
• 4:20
  I Hate Talking: And then proceeds to the 12th night, which is the night of January 5th, and then I guess we go into the 6th.
• 4:29
  I Hate Talking: So the 6th would sort of be the end of the Christmas tide period with Epiphany as the final day there.
• 4:36
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 4:38
  I Hate Talking: So yeah, I think we're Right, ish.
• 4:42
  I Hate Talking: But so at noon on the 6th.
• 4:47
  I Hate Talking: is when Christmas tide ends.
• 4:50
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I guess it depends exactly on when you count your start and end of the day, whether that is at sunset or sunrise or whatever the case may be, but I guess it would technically be sunset on the 6th would be the final end of the 12 day period.
• 5:08
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 5:08
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think a lot of people in modern day culture When they hear the 12 Days of Christmas, they think of like the 12 days leading up to Christmas, right?
• 5:19
  I Hate Talking: Like, you get socks, so you do all that, but the actual song, the 2 days of Christmas song, and other things like that, right, actually starts, I guess, on the 24th, like you said.
• 5:31
  I Hate Talking: That is correct.
• 5:33
  I Hate Talking: So that is the word or phrase, Christmas tide that does describe those 12 days of Christmas that start actually on Christmas and like you said, maybe there's a cultural misunderstanding that Many think that that is the 12 days leading up to Christmas Day, but it is in fact the 12 days.
• 5:51
  I Hate Talking: Including Christmas Eve, post that period.
• 5:55
  I Hate Talking: So, what, OK, obviously Christmas, I get that part of the word, but the second half of the word tied.
• 6:01
  I Hate Talking: What would that mean?
• 6:03
  I Hate Talking: So I think that there's actually two root words in here, Christmas.
• 6:09
  I Hate Talking: I think that is all relatively understood that that is the celebration of Christmas season, and then tide simply means referring to a specific period of time or season.
• 6:22
  I Hate Talking: So it is basically Christmas time.
• 6:25
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 6:26
  I Hate Talking: It's not Christmas time, it's Christmas tide.
• 6:30
  I Hate Talking: That is correct.
• 6:31
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 6:32
  I Hate Talking: But it means the same.
• 6:33
  I Hate Talking: Tied from the reference to a specific period of time or season, yes.
• 6:39
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 6:39
  I Hate Talking: So, however you measure it, whether you start your Christmas celebration.
• 6:45
  I Hate Talking: Right after Thanksgiving or even before, which I really don't think is acceptable, it is.
• 6:52
  I Hate Talking: Or if you celebrate this in the historical traditional way of celebrating Christmas and then the 12 days post Christmas Eve.
• 7:03
  I Hate Talking: Either way you measure it, Christmas is over for this year.
• 7:06
  I Hate Talking: So for me, I'm extreme, I understand, but somehow, and I can't Explain it.
• 7:16
  I Hate Talking: I, even my, I see people post on like my Facebook memories and stuff that this is referenced.
• 7:24
  I Hate Talking: So, there's something ingrained in me that come by May, definitely by June.
• 7:30
  I Hate Talking: I get super Fancy for Christmas.
• 7:34
  I Hate Talking: I start playing the music, and I just, like, need it to come, and I get so excited hyping it up.
• 7:40
  I Hate Talking: And I know you hate that.
• 7:42
  I Hate Talking: I try to not play the music or talk too much about it around you, cause I know you get frustrated.
• 7:48
  I Hate Talking: But I love it so much and it's such a joyful time.
• 7:52
  I Hate Talking: And also for people who do.
• 7:55
  I Hate Talking: You know, we're Christians, so people who do believe in the Lord Jesus, like, what better thing than to celebrate his birth.
• 8:02
  I Hate Talking: So, I think you're a little bit of a bah humbug.
• 8:04
  I Hate Talking: I would disagree.
• 8:06
  I Hate Talking: I would say that there are times and seasons for certain things and that Christmas does have its time and season.
• 8:14
  I Hate Talking: And that belongs within the month of December and even into January.
• 8:20
  I Hate Talking: I'm OK with that.
• 8:21
  I Hate Talking: But Christmas in July or this aspect of starting to prepare for Christmas season in May, I do find quite ridiculous.
• 8:31
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I would do June to January, is my Christmas time tide, Christmas tide.
• 8:38
  I Hate Talking: That can be your own personal Christmas tide, I suppose, but that is definitely not the historical traditional view of what Christmas tide is.
• 8:48
  I Hate Talking: Yeah.
• 8:49
  I Hate Talking: So, um, for the January 6th, like we were talking about a while ago, that has been a good compromise for us at least, because I do notice for myself that I would get, I don't know if you want to call it like a seasonal depression, that seems extreme for what I was experiencing, but I'll definitely like Melancholy sadness.
• 9:10
  I Hate Talking: So by extending the festivities, the decorations, all that.
• 9:15
  I Hate Talking: That's definitely helped me the past couple of years, not have such a stark stop.
• 9:22
  I Hate Talking: And like, I feel like there's such a sudden stop that there's like a drastic steep in my attitude and my emotions.
• 9:31
  I Hate Talking: So this has been a grad helped me do a gradual decrease.
• 9:36
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I suppose so.
• 9:38
  I Hate Talking: And I guess for the start of the Christmas season, we've.
• 9:41
  I Hate Talking: Maybe had some back and forth over the years of our relationship and have, I think, pretty well settled that.
• 9:50
  I Hate Talking: Thanksgiving is.
• 9:52
  I Hate Talking: Thanksgiving and that there is no Christmas celebration on Thanksgiving or prior to Thanksgiving, but that perhaps we can start to get out the decorations on Black Friday, that being in The US that Friday immediately following our Thanksgiving in November on Thursday.
• 10:16
  I Hate Talking: And then perhaps even get a live Christmas tree that weekend, which is typically either the very last or I guess sometimes those dates may actually be the 1st or 2nd of December, depending on exactly when Thanksgiving falls on that Thursday.
• 10:34
  I Hate Talking: But that has been sort of our tradition for our family is to start the Christmas decorations.
• 10:42
  I Hate Talking: Immediately following Thanksgiving, but never on or prior.
• 10:47
  I Hate Talking: Right, except for one year, you say never, but we did do one year because you were out of town.
• 10:54
  I Hate Talking: And I was pregnant.
• 10:56
  I Hate Talking: So, before you left town, you took down all the decorations, so I wouldn't have to lift those heavy boxes.
• 11:05
  I Hate Talking: And then I decorated because they weren't there.
• 11:08
  I Hate Talking: That was the only year, and you also hung up the Christmas lights that year because again, you're gonna be gone.
• 11:13
  I Hate Talking: You're gonna be gone for quite a bit of December, so you did all that decorating before you left.
• 11:20
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I do recall that.
• 11:21
  I Hate Talking: I'm pretty certain that I did not allow you to turn on the Christmas lights until after Thanksgiving though.
• 11:27
  I Hate Talking: -- Or -- maybe you did it without my permission and I did not know.
• 11:30
  I Hate Talking: I don't remember.
• 11:32
  I Hate Talking: I really don't remember, but I do remember um.
• 11:35
  I Hate Talking: You bringing down the stuff, and I appreciate that.
• 11:38
  I Hate Talking: So yes, so under special circumstances, and I'd probably even be open to that in the future with, again, if there was extreme circumstances like that, but for all intents and purposes.
• 11:52
  I Hate Talking: Post Thanksgiving is the earliest that we start any sort of Christmas traditions or Christmas decorations.
• 12:01
  I Hate Talking: But what about this year was the shortest period of time between Thanksgiving and Christmas you can have.
• 12:09
  I Hate Talking: Because of how the calendar falls, and here in the US it's the 4th Thursday of the month.
• 12:16
  I Hate Talking: of November.
• 12:18
  I Hate Talking: This was the shortest amount of time in between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
• 12:23
  I Hate Talking: So I feel like we get gypped, and don't get a lot of time to do all the festivities.
• 12:28
  I Hate Talking: So you still don't think it's OK to do a couple before that?
• 12:32
  I Hate Talking: Correct.
• 12:34
  I Hate Talking: Why do you feel so strongly about this?
• 12:36
  I Hate Talking: Because Thanksgiving is its own thing and needs to have its own distinct celebration that is in no means.
• 12:45
  I Hate Talking: detracted from by the fact that there may be Christmas decorations or.
• 12:51
  I Hate Talking: Efforts going on with regards to decorating for Christmas.
• 12:55
  I Hate Talking: Basically, the majority or even all of your mental faculties and focus should be on Thanksgiving and not An upcoming holiday.
• 13:10
  I Hate Talking: Do you feel the same way about our child's birthday?
• 13:13
  I Hate Talking: We have a kid who's born in December.
• 13:15
  I Hate Talking: So he has to, and his birthday is right before Christmas.
• 13:19
  I Hate Talking: So everything always, even this year somebody gave him a gift and wrapped it in Christmas paper, and they're like, I'm so sorry, that's all we had.
• 13:27
  I Hate Talking: So, I mean, we've strived really hard to separate them.
• 13:31
  I Hate Talking: But he will always have Christmas stuff combined with his birthday.
• 13:36
  I Hate Talking: Is that OK?
• 13:38
  I Hate Talking: Well, doesn't that prove my point that there should be separate and distinct things and by starting Christmas so early that it does detract from Thanksgiving?
• 13:48
  I Hate Talking: I don't think so because for him.
• 13:51
  I Hate Talking: Yes, he'll always have Christmas stuff around, -- but I'm -- OK with this.
• 13:55
  I Hate Talking: So you're saying that we in the future don't have to start Christmas until after his birthday?
• 13:59
  I Hate Talking: No.
• 14:00
  I Hate Talking: Unless you're gonna let me start decorating in June.
• 14:05
  I Hate Talking: No, what I'm saying is the opposite of we can have this section and the day solely focused on him.
• 14:14
  I Hate Talking: And we have his favorite decorations up and stuff.
• 14:17
  I Hate Talking: I'm not taking down the Christmas decorations for him.
• 14:20
  I Hate Talking: We have areas that are designated to celebrate him, like a birthday banner and balloons and stuff.
• 14:26
  I Hate Talking: The kitchen table is all where we decorate with balloons and a banner and cake and all that for the birthday person.
• 14:34
  I Hate Talking: So I leave that area for him, just like on Thanksgiving, we would have the Thanksgiving table all decorated for Thanksgiving.
• 14:43
  I Hate Talking: I don't think it detracts at all.
• 14:45
  I Hate Talking: From his birthday or from Thanksgiving, if you have a tree or Christmas lights up.
• 14:52
  I Hate Talking: No, I'm still holding to my position that in the traditional sense of US holidays that Thanksgiving is Thanksgiving and you don't start thinking about Christmas until After that, maybe there's like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade that concludes with Santa Claus on the float, and that's like sort of the, that's, that's tradition.
• 15:17
  I Hate Talking: That's the pivotal point that transitions you from Thanksgiving into Christmas would be Santa in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade.
• 15:29
  I Hate Talking: I love, I've heard some people talk about this tradition in their family, and we don't have it for us, maybe one day.
• 15:36
  I Hate Talking: But and it's in movies a lot too, where after Thanksgiving dinner, the family decorates the tree.
• 15:44
  I Hate Talking: Because the whole family's there.
• 15:46
  I Hate Talking: Well, this does sound like a movie thing because there's actually logistics in getting a tree.
• 15:51
  I Hate Talking: If you have a tree, yeah.
• 15:54
  I Hate Talking: That would somehow like they don't show that in the movie like actually going to the store and buying the tree and like having it in the garage until Thanksgiving dinners made and making sure that somebody actually can go out and do it while other people are taking care of preparing the Thanksgiving dinner, etc.
• 16:09
  I Hate Talking: etc.
• 16:10
  I Hate Talking: So this does sound like a very fantastical thing that is in movies only.
• 16:15
  I Hate Talking: Right, OK.
• 16:16
  I Hate Talking: Well, this is another thing as I'm hearing you talk.
• 16:19
  I Hate Talking: Is it also the actual day for me?
• 16:22
  I Hate Talking: Doesn't hold a lot of weight.
• 16:24
  I Hate Talking: I'm fine celebrating Thanksgiving on a different day.
• 16:28
  I Hate Talking: I very much encourage Christmas on different days if it falls on a very inconvenient day.
• 16:36
  I Hate Talking: So, how do you feel about that then?
• 16:39
  I Hate Talking: Is it the specific day you have to do this, or if we said we're celebrating Thanksgiving on this day, cause you're not working or whatnot, then can we still set up the tree before the calendar says it's Thanksgiving?
• 16:53
  I Hate Talking: So I think that the day does have some importance to me in some sort of sentimental fashion with that Thursday.
• 17:04
  I Hate Talking: Now, there has been, I think, in more recent years.
• 17:08
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps the dilution of Thanksgiving Day being celebrated on different days.
• 17:15
  I Hate Talking: Now there's like Friendsgiving on the previous Thursday or something or there may be different work celebrations that have things that occur during normal working days so that they can have a holiday celebration and then still the official Thanksgiving Day is on that Thursday.
• 17:33
  I Hate Talking: So I do think that there is some.
• 17:35
  I Hate Talking: Importance to recognizing the actual day, but again, in extenuating circumstances, perhaps it's acceptable to quote unquote move it and recognize that other day as the day that you celebrate, but nonetheless, that the sequence of events is still the same, that if you do move Thanksgiving, you would still not celebrate.
• 18:00
  I Hate Talking: Christmas or even start to think about Christmas until after that.
• 18:04
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps there's an extenuating circumstance where you couldn't celebrate Thanksgiving until the following week, and then that would actually shorten your Christmas season by even another week.
• 18:15
  I Hate Talking: That would drive me insane, cause there are a lot of first responders, police officers, nurses, all that, that do have to work on Thanksgiving Day.
• 18:25
  I Hate Talking: I think that it's really awesome that they can celebrate with their family a day before, 2 days, whatever.
• 18:31
  I Hate Talking: And if you had a job like that, I would definitely celebrate whenever you had off, and we just tell the kids that for Thanksgiving.
• 18:39
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so.
• 18:41
  I Hate Talking: And I think that is what a lot of people do, but it still does not eliminate the fact that Christmas comes after Thanksgiving.
• 18:48
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 18:49
  I Hate Talking: So then we do get our tree and start to decorate for Christmas.
• 18:55
  I Hate Talking: We hang up the lights and turn those on post Thanksgiving.
• 19:00
  I Hate Talking: I think that's again, culturally appropriate.
• 19:02
  I Hate Talking: I think you might get some maybe not people actually coming up and telling you outright, but definitely people would think in their minds that uh Might be a little bit out there if you have all those things turned on and set up prior to Thanksgiving.
• 19:18
  I Hate Talking: So again, there's some, there's maybe some cultural norms.
• 19:21
  I Hate Talking: Well, but we know that TV is trying to erode cultural norms anyway, so that might not be a good barometer.
• 19:27
  I Hate Talking: Well, there you go.
• 19:29
  I Hate Talking: I'm glad you agree with me.
• 19:31
  I Hate Talking: What?
• 19:32
  I Hate Talking: No, but what about another hypothetical?
• 19:34
  I Hate Talking: Because we've always lived apart across the country from at least one side of our family, sometimes both.
• 19:41
  I Hate Talking: We don't live relatively close to any of our extended family.
• 19:46
  I Hate Talking: So, say when our kids grow up.
• 19:49
  I Hate Talking: If they move away also, and they come back with their families, what if they can only come back November 20th?
• 19:57
  I Hate Talking: And we're like, you're here, we're gonna celebrate Christmas with the grandbabies.
• 20:03
  I Hate Talking: We're gonna have grandbabies one day, hopefully.
• 20:05
  I Hate Talking: Can we set out the Christmas lights and the trees and make it special for them then, or would you still be such a ba humbug that your poor granddaughter one day won't get a picture by the tree with you?
• 20:20
  I Hate Talking: So I guess I do reserve the right to change my mind, but There would be maybe a lot of different considerations to think about in this hypothetical situation.
• 20:33
  I Hate Talking: Like if this is the exclusive only time, maybe they're not even in country, maybe they're out of country and this is like 1 in 5 years that they're coming back or something.
• 20:43
  I Hate Talking: In that extreme circumstance, then yes, I would probably be open to celebrating quote unquote Christmas on November 20th and would even perhaps entertain.
• 20:55
  I Hate Talking: Having a tree and so on and so forth.
• 20:58
  I Hate Talking: But if it's just maybe a 1 in a 10 year exception, and this is the first time that it's happened and they've been present for other Christmases or we've gone to see them for other Christmases.
• 21:11
  I Hate Talking: And this is just a one-off situation, then I would be less apt to do anything special that is outside of the normal routine in order to do that.
• 21:24
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, fair enough, I agree.
• 21:26
  I Hate Talking: I, I mean, I can at least get on board with that.
• 21:29
  I Hate Talking: A funny story you're talking about, like, we decorate after.
• 21:33
  I Hate Talking: is you used to, not as much any longer.
• 21:37
  I Hate Talking: Black Friday used to be your busy time.
• 21:40
  I Hate Talking: And actually, when I worked, Black Friday was very quiet at my facility, but someone still had to be there.
• 21:48
  I Hate Talking: So, I often went cause you were gone, working, and it was actually a really fun time because that's the day that we decorated for the holidays, the whole facility.
• 21:58
  I Hate Talking: And so that was what I did that day.
• 22:00
  I Hate Talking: I loved it.
• 22:00
  I Hate Talking: And then when I started having kids and staying home with them, Black Friday became the day that we would decorate.
• 22:09
  I Hate Talking: And so I started, there's the one time, do you remember this?
• 22:12
  I Hate Talking: You were gone at work like usual for Black Friday, and me and the kids would just blast Christmas music and Christmas movies and just stay in Christmas pajamas that were ridiculous.
• 22:25
  I Hate Talking: And just decorate all day long, and it was just like this drawn out process.
• 22:31
  I Hate Talking: Cause also, I think it stresses you out to see boxes everywhere and things half done.
• 22:36
  I Hate Talking: So I took that opportunity while you were gone the whole day or weekend to do that stuff so you wouldn't see it.
• 22:44
  I Hate Talking: But you, I know, unknowing to me, you brought co-workers home in the middle of the day.
• 22:50
  I Hate Talking: Do you remember that?
• 22:51
  I Hate Talking: I was in pajamas that were a little tight.
• 22:54
  I Hate Talking: And not inappropriate, but they were like very kid-ish pajamas.
• 23:00
  I Hate Talking: I bought like a child size pajamas because I thought they were funny.
• 23:04
  I Hate Talking: And we had a bunch of little kids.
• 23:06
  I Hate Talking: Our sons were young.
• 23:08
  I Hate Talking: And then your co-worker showed up and I was like, oh, this is humiliating.
• 23:13
  I Hate Talking: -- Do you remember -- that?
• 23:14
  I Hate Talking: I do remember that event, yes.
• 23:16
  I Hate Talking: And that was one of the days that, like you said.
• 23:18
  I Hate Talking: It was usually the busy time, but we actually weren't that busy that day, -- so shopping and then you came to -- the spare time, yeah.
• 23:23
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I love seeing you midday, but I wish I had gotten a text or something because I just felt so immature wearing like super childish pajamas.
• 23:36
  I Hate Talking: And blasting music and dancing around and being like, oh, hello adults that I've never met before, but, oh well, hopefully they don't remember, or maybe they just think I'm a fun person.
• 23:49
  I Hate Talking: Perhaps I don't know.
• 23:52
  I Hate Talking: It didn't really come up in conversation after the fact, so I'm unsure.
• 23:57
  I Hate Talking: Do you feel like they judged me or judged you for having a wife who does that?
• 24:02
  I Hate Talking: No, I don't think so.
• 24:05
  I Hate Talking: Good answer.
• 24:06
  I Hate Talking: Even if it's not the true one.
• 24:08
  I Hate Talking: So that is the entry into Christmas for our traditional method of doing so is always post Thanksgiving, but usually on that very first weekend after Thanksgiving.
• 24:23
  I Hate Talking: And then we have all the decorations and things set up and I do actually was thinking in my mind as you were talking that I do dislike all the boxes and Things out and about.
• 24:36
  I Hate Talking: So even before you mentioned that, that actually was in my mind.
• 24:39
  I Hate Talking: So that is true.
• 24:40
  I Hate Talking: And once all those things are out and decorated and put the boxes at least somewhat back to where they belong so that they're out of the way and out of sight, and we enjoy the Christmas season that we celebrate from that weekend post Thanksgiving until whenever Christmas ends, it seems like it goes on forever.
• 25:02
  I Hate Talking: No, it doesn't, never long enough.
• 25:05
  I Hate Talking: There's always a lot more stuff I wanna do, people I wanna see.
• 25:09
  I Hate Talking: And we always run out of movies we wanna watch.
• 25:12
  I Hate Talking: We always run out of time.
• 25:13
  I Hate Talking: So typically, we'll celebrate Christmas Eve with a church service.
• 25:19
  I Hate Talking: We'll do that at one of our local things.
• 25:24
  I Hate Talking: We've actually had a lot of different experience with that all the way from extremely loud rock music, all the way to very quiet and traditional.
• 25:35
  I Hate Talking: Candlelight services and different things in between.
• 25:39
  I Hate Talking: So that has always been a tradition that we do something in terms of a Christmas Eve service.
• 25:45
  I Hate Talking: And then depends on exactly where we are, but if we're at home, we'll do our own Christmas celebration at home and then.
• 25:54
  I Hate Talking: The decorations do stay up for at least 12 days, I suppose, even longer.
• 26:01
  I Hate Talking: I think there are some decorations that are still up to this very day.
• 26:05
  I Hate Talking: Really?
• 26:06
  I Hate Talking: No.
• 26:07
  I Hate Talking: Oh, yeah, there are.
• 26:09
  I Hate Talking: It's our bedroom decorations.
• 26:12
  I Hate Talking: Is that what you're thinking of?
• 26:13
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think maybe everything else has been -- put away and -- undecorated.
• 26:19
  I Hate Talking: They are there.
• 26:22
  I Hate Talking: I see them every night and think of it.
• 26:24
  I Hate Talking: We can get rid of them tonight.
• 26:27
  I Hate Talking: The reason that, so in our bedroom, we have, um, OK, well, in our bedroom, we had two small fake trees, like 4-foot trees that light up, and then some garland with lights.
• 26:40
  I Hate Talking: I removed the garland and lights.
• 26:42
  I Hate Talking: The two trees are still there because they need to go in a bag and I have to move my car to get to the bag and put them away.
• 26:51
  I Hate Talking: And I know I'm not gonna do that soon, so I don't want to take care of him downstairs.
• 26:58
  I Hate Talking: So that's why I, I do know that that needs to get done.
• 27:02
  I Hate Talking: That is true.
• 27:04
  I Hate Talking: And I guess the biggest sort of transition from Christmas season or Christmas tide into just the regular time of year and maybe looking forward to other birthdays or Easter or whatever the case may be is removal of the official Christmas tree, which usually, I think we've had a live tree, not a live tree, but like a traditional tree that is cut from a live tree.
• 27:32
  I Hate Talking: For almost every year.
• 27:35
  I Hate Talking: It's not been every year, but again, extenuating circumstances may have precluded us from getting a live tree in those certain years, but certainly a live tree is our tradition.
• 27:45
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think only 1 or 2 years in our marriage, we haven't had a live tree.
• 27:50
  I Hate Talking: And that was perhaps the happiest day of January.
• 27:56
  I Hate Talking: When I got rid of the tree.
• 27:57
  I Hate Talking: is when the tree was retired, which is the absolute opposite for me.
• 28:06
  I Hate Talking: I still thinking about it.
• 28:08
  I Hate Talking: I, all I can do to describe it is there's a hole in my heart, like I feel it.
• 28:13
  I Hate Talking: It's gone.
• 28:15
  I Hate Talking: The spot where the tree was is empty and my hole in my heart is empty now.
• 28:20
  I Hate Talking: And it made me so sad the other day, not sad, I guess that's unfair.
• 28:26
  I Hate Talking: But when you were like looked over, cause I did it while you were not here, we, I removed the ornaments and removed the tree from the house, and you look at like, oh, I feel so good.
• 28:40
  I Hate Talking: That that's gone.
• 28:41
  I Hate Talking: I was like, oh, I wanna cry that it's gone.
• 28:44
  I Hate Talking: So I don't know what to do with that tension of like the fact that That is such a life giving to you not to have it.
• 28:52
  I Hate Talking: And it literally feels the opposite for me.
• 28:55
  I Hate Talking: Well, I think part of it comes from the fact that for whatever reason, a lot of my stress versus comfort comes from the fact of visually appealing spaces that are not cluttered.
• 29:11
  I Hate Talking: And I feel that Christmas, while it is important to celebrate and decorate, that it can become somewhat cluttered and I have A certain patience for that, that I can again visually deal with it and see these things and not let it stress me out too much for a certain period of time, but then at some point that my patience wanes and then therefore, I'm very excited to get back to a normal undecorated.
• 29:53
  I Hate Talking: And uncluttered view of our living space.
• 29:56
  I Hate Talking: And one day we can talk about our versions of clutter.
• 30:00
  I Hate Talking: I think we need to do that because we have very different versions.
• 30:04
  I Hate Talking: Your clutter stresses me out beyond belief, so I'm sure my clutter stresses you out, like, I can see that.
• 30:10
  I Hate Talking: But it's funny when you talk about clutter cause I'm like, oh my goodness, you have so much clutter.
• 30:15
  I Hate Talking: So one day we'll dive into that.
• 30:18
  I Hate Talking: So our tree, for anyone listening, obviously you don't know, but our house in general, but a tree especially, is not curated.
• 30:29
  I Hate Talking: It is not gonna win a magazine, and though I think those trees are beautiful, like the white lights and all the matching ornaments in perfectly spaced.
• 30:38
  I Hate Talking: I love letting the kids put the lights wherever they want, and like they, throughout the season, they'll make ornaments and they hang them up, and it gets, the tree gets progressively worse as the season goes on.
• 30:53
  I Hate Talking: Because they keep adding stuff to it.
• 30:56
  I Hate Talking: But I love that.
• 30:57
  I Hate Talking: I love all their handmade things.
• 30:59
  I Hate Talking: I love how wonky it ends up looking at the end.
• 31:03
  I Hate Talking: So, is that what bothers you?
• 31:05
  I Hate Talking: Would you feel better if it was just a clean tree?
• 31:09
  I Hate Talking: It's interesting that you even said yourself that it gets worse as time goes on, because if you actually really love that, when you say that it gets better.
• 31:21
  I Hate Talking: Well, I mean like worse as in like a magazine, like when we first start out, like it's not gonna win a magazine award, but like, OK, kind of thing, you could enter the contest.
• 31:33
  I Hate Talking: And then as the season goes on, like, we're not entering that in the contest, that's not what home goods or whatever is looking for.
• 31:41
  I Hate Talking: Fair enough.
• 31:42
  I Hate Talking: No, that is a fine point.
• 31:44
  I Hate Talking: I was just pointing out that uh But in your own psyche that you were describing better or worse.
• 31:52
  I Hate Talking: OK, no, but if my kids are listening, I have them hang that stuff on the tree because I love it so much.
• 31:58
  I Hate Talking: I love seeing their drawings progress through the years.
• 32:02
  I Hate Talking: Those are my favorite ornaments, which we also can talk about how I thought we lost my favorite ornaments.
• 32:08
  I Hate Talking: Yes, perhaps that will be the last thing for this episode, but to answer your question in regards to the tree.
• 32:14
  I Hate Talking: I don't think it is the transition of the tree as time progresses.
• 32:21
  I Hate Talking: In fact, case in point, this year, the lights stopped working, and we specifically went and bought a new string of lights so that we could replace that string of lights that failed.
• 32:33
  I Hate Talking: Because we tried to repair it and it was apparently beyond repair or just needed a fuse that they haven't made in 5 years.
• 32:41
  I Hate Talking: So we just opted to buy the new string of lights and that took care of that.
• 32:46
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, no, I really appreciated you doing that because I wasn't going to spend the money to buy it.
• 32:52
  I Hate Talking: And it made me sad that I was like, well, I guess just the next couple days of Christmas, we're not gonna have lights.
• 32:58
  I Hate Talking: So it was really sweet that you went and bought them and we hung them around the tree.
• 33:02
  I Hate Talking: So I think actually what does get to me is just the cumulative effect of the amount of days.
• 33:10
  I Hate Talking: So seeing the Tree and other decorations over and over again and just not having the routine visual of a quote unquote normal living space, I think is what is additive in nature, that at some point I just reach a particular breaking point and just become stressed at that.
• 33:35
  I Hate Talking: And it's not necessarily that I require that it be taken down or that I have, you know, things that are removed from the decorative nature of the household, but it just becomes stressful to me.
• 33:49
  I Hate Talking: And when those things are then removed or put away, it does feel as quite a bit of relief to me.
• 33:57
  I Hate Talking: Do you feel the same way about fall decorations?
• 34:00
  I Hate Talking: I do.
• 34:02
  I Hate Talking: We have them longer.
• 34:05
  I Hate Talking: I mean, -- it's less -- amount.
• 34:07
  I Hate Talking: There's a, yes, there's a far less amount.
• 34:09
  I Hate Talking: They're also, I think, less intrusive.
• 34:12
  I Hate Talking: The other thing that is also additive in here is just the sheer amount of things that we have within the house, and I guess that's just because of the nature of having kids and the materialistic society that we live in, that there's just a lot of stuff that is.
• 34:29
  I Hate Talking: Added to living space during this time as well.
• 34:33
  I Hate Talking: -- So perhaps that like -- all the gifts, the gifts, yes, I'm talking about the gifts.
• 34:37
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 34:38
  I Hate Talking: So by the end of the Christmas season, because all the gifts are there and around the house.
• 34:44
  I Hate Talking: That's stressful for you.
• 34:46
  I Hate Talking: Precisely.
• 34:48
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 34:49
  I Hate Talking: That's fair enough.
• 34:50
  I Hate Talking: It still makes me sad.
• 34:53
  I Hate Talking: I still, as we're talking about this, guys, I need to talk to someone, I guess, because as we're talking about this, I, my heart literally feels like it has a hole in it.
• 35:02
  I Hate Talking: I'm so sad about thinking about no more tree decoration.
• 35:07
  I Hate Talking: I had, there's still, there's still out there.
• 35:09
  I Hate Talking: As soon as we leave our recording studio here, -- you'll see some Christmas -- trees.
• 35:13
  I Hate Talking: I haven't plugged them in in days, so I should go plug them in tonight?
• 35:16
  I Hate Talking: I will allow you to do that if that makes you feel better for one night.
• 35:19
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 35:20
  I Hate Talking: But also, I do little things like we've extended it.
• 35:25
  I Hate Talking: It's not a hard stop on the twenty-sixth any longer.
• 35:28
  I Hate Talking: We extend it and we gradually take stuff down.
• 35:31
  I Hate Talking: That's helpful.
• 35:32
  I Hate Talking: And also, I still have battery operated candles that could be colors, and I always like every morning.
• 35:40
  I Hate Talking: Almost every morning at least, I wake up before anyone else and I do like some mindfulness and journaling and Bible study, and I always turn on the lights then, and then in the evening too, I always turn them on.
• 35:54
  I Hate Talking: And that bothers you too though, right?
• 35:57
  I Hate Talking: You've said that you don't like when I turn them on at in the evenings.
• 36:00
  I Hate Talking: I don't mind if they're all white or if they're a different variety of colors, but like when they're the green, red, green, red, green, red, and explicitly Christmas themed, that's really the only thing that bothers me.
• 36:13
  I Hate Talking: No, but right now I'm letting them be like on a rotation.
• 36:16
  I Hate Talking: They change.
• 36:16
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, they were fine.
• 36:17
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, they were the rotation of colors was fine.
• 36:19
  I Hate Talking: All right.
• 36:19
  I Hate Talking: And so that's a good compromise maybe because it's helping me see some of those lights and prettiness and not bothering you.
• 36:28
  I Hate Talking: Precisely.
• 36:29
  I Hate Talking: So for our final topic, this episode is trash bags and what they may contain.
• 36:36
  I Hate Talking: And usually, when I see a trash bag, I assume that it contains trash and put it in the trash can.
• 36:42
  I Hate Talking: But you said.
• 36:45
  I Hate Talking: Know what's in the contents first.
• 36:48
  I Hate Talking: Sometimes I do go through the trash to make sure that you're throwing things away that shouldn't be thrown away.
• 36:54
  I Hate Talking: You do.
• 36:55
  I Hate Talking: You go through when I declutter, you go through.
• 36:58
  I Hate Talking: See, this just shows that my patience is completely gone by the end of the Christmas season that I will just throw anything away because I just want to get rid of extra stuff.
• 37:08
  I Hate Talking: OK, so first background, 3 years ago, our plastic tote that I put our Christmas tree decorations in broke.
• 37:16
  I Hate Talking: So I kept waiting to go to the store to buy a new one.
• 37:19
  I Hate Talking: It, I just didn't get around to it.
• 37:20
  I Hate Talking: So I put it in my trash bag, that trash bag ended up being shoved somewhere in the garage.
• 37:26
  I Hate Talking: By next Christmas, we had, you know, we'd forgotten about it.
• 37:30
  I Hate Talking: By next Christmas, we couldn't find it.
• 37:32
  I Hate Talking: I looked everywhere, I thought, and I was like, we must have just thrown it away.
• 37:36
  I Hate Talking: I remember putting it in all these items in a trash bag, waiting to buy the tote.
• 37:41
  I Hate Talking: I never did, bummer.
• 37:43
  I Hate Talking: Well, months later, after Christmas, we did find it.
• 37:48
  I Hate Talking: It was safe.
• 37:49
  I Hate Talking: All our keepsake ornaments were OK.
• 37:51
  I Hate Talking: So this year, I thought I learned my lesson.
• 37:56
  I Hate Talking: I was taking things off again, we did not have access to the tote, the plastic bin that we put stuff in.
• 38:04
  I Hate Talking: So I got another trash bag and we started putting stuff in that.
• 38:08
  I Hate Talking: -- And I -- thought, as in you and the kids, not me, because I would not have taken the shortcut.
• 38:14
  I Hate Talking: I would have gotten the correct container.
• 38:16
  I Hate Talking: Because you were sick in bed and I did not.
• 38:18
  I Hate Talking: I was doing something nice for you by taking the tree down.
• 38:21
  I Hate Talking: Fair enough.
• 38:21
  I Hate Talking: Another topic that we can delve into at another episode.
• 38:27
  I Hate Talking: Labor of love.
• 38:28
  I Hate Talking: Taking shortcuts versus doing the right thing.
• 38:30
  I Hate Talking: Labor of love for you.
• 38:32
  I Hate Talking: So I was sick and I was unable to help proceed.
• 38:35
  I Hate Talking: So I'm putting them in the trash bag again, I could not get to the area that had the plastic bin.
• 38:43
  I Hate Talking: So I put the trash bag and what I thought was a safe spot because I did not want it to get mixed up with trash and thrown away like I thought happened a couple of years ago.
• 38:54
  I Hate Talking: So that happens.
• 38:58
  I Hate Talking: About a week or so later, I realized like, oh no, where did that trash bag go?
• 39:06
  I Hate Talking: And you were like, oh, I threw it away.
• 39:07
  I Hate Talking: And there were trash bags in the garage staged for the outdoor trash.
• 39:13
  I Hate Talking: There were things there in those trash bags, but I guess that after the fact that we found out were legitimately trash, but those were put in the trash can and the trash had been picked up.
• 39:24
  I Hate Talking: And so therefore, we thought there was a real possibility that Perhaps one of those trash bags was what contained the ornaments and other keepstakes and was unretrievable because the trash had already been picked up.
• 39:37
  I Hate Talking: Yeah.
• 39:37
  I Hate Talking: And so I had so many emotions because one, I'm thankful that you take care of the trash.
• 39:43
  I Hate Talking: I know it's a cliche or a trope, but I often do take the trash out of the trash bag and then I just put it in the garage, and then you take it down the steps outside, all that.
• 39:54
  I Hate Talking: I'm thankful you do that.
• 39:57
  I Hate Talking: And so I was frustrated with myself that I did not take care of the trash bag properly, but I thought I did.
• 40:04
  I Hate Talking: So then I was like all these emotions, plus the emotions of all the keepsake ornaments, all their drawings through the years, all their handprints, all their Our kids' handprints and stuff.
• 40:16
  I Hate Talking: All these really special moments that were gone.
• 40:20
  I Hate Talking: Plus, the lights that you had just bought the week before were gone, and those are expensive lights.
• 40:26
  I Hate Talking: So I was like, great, like, now we have to buy more Christmas lights.
• 40:30
  I Hate Talking: So, I asked you You're like, yeah, I threw them away.
• 40:34
  I Hate Talking: I was frustrated because I wrote on the bag, like not trash.
• 40:38
  I Hate Talking: Like, if you looked at it at all, there definitely wasn't trash in it.
• 40:42
  I Hate Talking: So I was like, a lot of emotions.
• 40:45
  I Hate Talking: And I know I made you feel bad too.
• 40:47
  I Hate Talking: And so it was, it was a rough little bit of time.
• 40:49
  I Hate Talking: How do you feel?
• 40:51
  I Hate Talking: Were you mad at me or yourself?
• 40:53
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, maybe a mix of emotions because perhaps I was frustrated at the fact that there's a trash bag being used to keep Important things.
• 41:03
  I Hate Talking: There was perhaps the failure of procedure with the fact that a trash bag was staged in the normal area that trash would go and therefore I was following the normal process of moving said trash into the trash bin.
• 41:17
  I Hate Talking: And then I was also perhaps a bit upset.
• 41:21
  I Hate Talking: With myself because of upsetting you, but then also because of the financial impact of having to buy new ornaments and lights and etc.
• 41:32
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:34
  I Hate Talking: So it was all these emotions.
• 41:37
  I Hate Talking: Thanks for sharing that because that's how I felt bad afterwards, like, uh, all he was doing is taking the trash out.
• 41:42
  I Hate Talking: Why am I being so grumpy about this?
• 41:45
  I Hate Talking: But I felt like I took so many steps, just not every step.
• 41:50
  I Hate Talking: Anyways, long story, I finally found the bag because I knew you would throw it away.
• 41:58
  I Hate Talking: So I hid it really well, so you would not throw the ornaments away.
• 42:04
  I Hate Talking: They are safe.
• 42:05
  I Hate Talking: We have them, they're in the proper taupe now, waiting for next year.
• 42:09
  I Hate Talking: And I guess you hid them so well that you forgot yourself where they were.
• 42:15
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think what happened was I put them where I often put the stuff for the, to go in the garage, but then I was like, no, he's gonna throw those away.
• 42:24
  I Hate Talking: So I moved it and yeah, that's what happened because I remember last couple of years ago thinking we threw everything away, did not let that happen again.
• 42:35
  I Hate Talking: And we're safe, we're good.
• 42:37
  I Hate Talking: But I don't know how many more times I'm gonna do this before I learn my lesson.
• 42:42
  I Hate Talking: Well, to some degree, you did learn your lesson because you knew I would be predictable and throw those things away if you had left them in a certain spot and Therefore, did not leave him in the certain spot.
• 42:53
  I Hate Talking: So, y'all, if you have better trash bags for Christmas decorations, like, maybe I just need to get some colored ones.
• 43:01
  I Hate Talking: Would that help?
• 43:01
  I Hate Talking: I don't know.
• 43:02
  I Hate Talking: Tell me what you guys do because obviously what I'm doing is not working.
• 43:06
  I Hate Talking: Or just use trash bags for trash.
• 43:09
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, but then where I put the ornaments?
• 43:12
  I Hate Talking: That's the greatest question of all time.
• 43:16
  I Hate Talking: So, from your friends at I hate talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.