Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 414- They Call Me De-Brueys!

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 414- They Call Me De-Brueys! · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. I'm a newbie.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I'm a newbie.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I'm a newbie.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Down in New Orleans where the river bends War.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: And debris kept a book of friends Cuban exiles with
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: a story to tell A quiet young drifter they knew.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Too well Lee Harvey Oswald in a borrowed room. A
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: name in the file like a ticking moon.
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: Was he just a witness?
• 1:08
  Speaker 6: Was he on the line?
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Or did Warren know more than he ever did find?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Hey Warren, Warren.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: What did you see?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Down in the Crescent City and Dallas, D.C.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: Hey, Warren, Warren, the.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Questions run deep. You can lock up a file, but
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: the old road's key.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: Rolling, rolling, Warren DeVries.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Tell us who was talking in the.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: New Orleans breeze.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Oswald got arrested in Dallastown And Warren came right in
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: when the news went down.
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: Months in the courthouse, months in the hall Writing every
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: answer for the Bureau and all Then the rifle cracked
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: and the whole world turned Every page got colder, every.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Question burned The Warren Commission burned drew his careful line,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: but a line on paper can't erase a sign. Hey, Warren, Warren,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: what did you see down in the crescent city in Dallas, D.C.? Hey, Warren, Warren,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: the questions run deep. You can lock up a file,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: but the old road's key. Rolling, rolling, Warren DeVries, tell
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: us who was talking in the New Orleans breeze. Or
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: as Pana said, keep your voice down low. There are
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: things about Warren that the world should know. Said a
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: warning came hard if he ever spoke about Warren and Oswald.
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: And the hidden road.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Maybe every witness bends beneath the rain. Maybe fear puts
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: a lock on a man's own name But the river
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: keep moving past the courthouse wall And a question with
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: a heartbeat outlasts them all No verdict.
• 3:41
  Speaker 6: In the water No answer in the dust.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Just a badge, a trail, and a nation's trust. If
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: the truth wore a hat, would we know its face?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: If it walked through Dallas, could it leave no trace?
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: Hey, Warren, Warren, what.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Did you see?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Down in the Crescent City of Dallas, D.C., questions run deep.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: You can lock up a file, but the old road's key. Rollin', rollin',
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Warren DeVries, tell us who was talkin' in the New
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Orleans breeze. New Orleans whispers, Dallas replies, The river keeps
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: a record underneath the skies. Whoa, war and debris, your
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: trail won't freeze.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: It keeps on rolling.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: In the New Orleans breeze.
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: What's up everybody welcome in it's friday night it's the
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: lone gunman podcast it's your boy joe b it's your
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: boy the triple b big bad bobby we're here what's
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: up joseph how are you robert i'm fantastic after hearing
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: that song gets me hyped up man out of all
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: the ai created songs that one so far it's like
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: It's like Chris Stapleton and John Mayer had a baby
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: at a Grateful Dead concert. I love it.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, and you were nice enough to send it to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: me and give me a little preview after Wednesday's show.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: And I have to... Let me just see if I
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: can bring this up really quickly. I was jamming out
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: to it on... Oh, I don't have it here. But
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I was jamming out to it In the morning. I
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: believe it was yesterday morning. And I was like, damn.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: It's fire.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: It's fire.
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: My favorite part is rolling, rolling, Warren DeBruys. Man.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Definitely an interesting character.
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that sets us up good for who we're going
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: to be talking about tonight. And that's Mr. Warren DeBruys.
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: As they say in New Orleans, Mr. DeBruys. Debris, Debris.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm probably going to say Debris.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: Tomato, tomato.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: I'll call them Debris and you can call them Debris.
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: How about that? That way at least one of us
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: will get it 50% correct. 50% of the time.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: That sounds like a great plan.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: All right. It's Friday night. We don't mess around on
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: Friday night. So, Joe, let's get right into it, sir.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: All right. Thank you, everyone, for joining us. We're going
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to skip the intros. as we've been doing recently, but
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: we know you're all here and we love you.
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: So, yes, we got a full house in here tonight already. Uh,
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: it's good to see all you folks. Don't forget to
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: hit that like button and, uh, share, share this thing
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: at a couple of places. I know, uh, Owen does
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: for us on X all over the place every week.
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: So thank you, Owen, AKA Jeebus on X. We appreciate
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: the hell out of it. And, uh, Yeah, man. Give
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: us some hype points after this thing turns into a video.
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: I don't think you can do it for a live show, but.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: No, usually by the next morning you can.
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: Allegedly. Yeah. Yeah, after it turns into a video.
• 7:49
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: Like I just said. But I digress.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Well, they said usually you could first hype in the morning.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: That wasn't... based on when it becomes a video, but yes.
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: Thank you for the clarification there, Doctor. You're welcome. Thank you.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I know because I hype my own videos, so I
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: know these things.
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: It won't let me hype my own videos.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Well, because you're probably on the official TLG account.
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: I am. I've tried. Believe me. It won't let me.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So if you have an alias account.
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: A burner account, yeah.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: As one might, or... you're an editor like myself, you
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: can hype.
• 8:36
  Speaker 7: Ah.
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: Well, good to know. Good to know.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: Maybe I'll call Tim. He can let me borrow some
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: of his bots. Sorry. 30,000 subscribers now, Joe. By the way.
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: They got 6,000 more subscribers in two weeks. Well, they
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: didn't pay for them.
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: All right, I digress. Here we go. Warren DeBruys, folks. Well,
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: I guess we should set it up a little bit
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: for the people. Warren DeBruys was an FBI agent in
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: New Orleans. He was not the special agent in charge
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: of New Orleans, although he was a very high-ranking, respected
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: member of the New Orleans FBI office, a.k.a. trusted by Mr. Hoover,
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: if you will. It was him and Milton Koch, whose
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: name we love to say here. He famously wrote the
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: Koch Report in October of 1963 about Oswald. We've also
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: heard of Agent Quigley, okay, who went and talked to
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: Oswald after he'd been arrested for the street fracas, right?
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: But Warren DeBreeze is a little different, right? He's kind
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: of on the fringes of just about everything going on
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans in the Cuban exile community. But he's
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: very closely tied into a specific subset of the exile
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: community in New Orleans, specifically Those members are former members
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: of the CRC, the Cuban Revolutionary Council. These guys knew
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: him so well, Carlos Quiroga.
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: The guy who went to Oswald's apartment in New Orleans
• 10:33
  Speaker 8: to try to infiltrate his group, had Warren DeBruy's home
• 10:39
  Speaker 8: phone number.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: You don't give out your own phone number very often.
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, I know times were different back then, but,
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: you know... I mean, come on. Come on.
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: And there's a whole lot of other allegations, specifically produced
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: by Ores Pena, who we've talked about here on the
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: show a lot. He was the owner of the Havana bar.
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: right on Decatur Street, located directly next to Carlos Brunier's store,
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: and directly across the street from a lot of government buildings,
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: including the INS office and things like this. And we'll
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: get more into that later. But I want to touch
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: on a couple things from.
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: Larry Hancock's fantastic book, Someone Would Have Talked. Okay.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Okay. Great book.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: Great book. Highly recommend. 10 out of 10. Okay. Oswald
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: and DeBruys. Ores Pena told CBS News in 75, and
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: we'll see that here in a minute, that he had
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: seen Oswald and DeBruys together. DeBruys denied it, because of
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: course he would. He said Pena uttered an outright lie
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: when he said he saw me with Oswald. This requires
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: strong refutation since it provides a false basis for historical evaluation,
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: which is what we're doing right this second, of various
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: government institutions. When DeBruys testified before the HSCA, he was
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: a little less certain, Joe.
• 12:33
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: Oswald was never an asset. We did not use that
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: term at the time. It would have been tantamount to
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: saying that he was an informant. He was never an informant.
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: I am disinclined to believe that he was ever recorded
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: as a source. But that possibility exists. Because the source
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: of information can be almost anybody.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And by the way, let me stop you there.
• 12:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: You see how he kind of words things? I read... Maybe...
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I guess his HSEA testimony is like 155 pages or
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: some shit. I think I read like a third of
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: it or maybe a little more. And he uses this
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: type of thing. This type of wording. It's like, no.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: But I could be wrong. You know, like he always
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: gives himself like a little out.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And I made a slight mistake. This is not from...
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: Someone would have talked yet. This is... I don't know
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: what this is or where it's from. Just a short
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: caveat there. But yeah, finish your thought.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: No, it's just like after reading like 50 pages, I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: think like almost a third, I just noticed that he
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: always talks in this kind of double speak. And he
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: was very emphatic. He never met Oswald, but I could
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: have talked to him on the phone. I wouldn't have known.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like that type of thing.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, he goes from very definitively never have spoken
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: to him or met him in person to, well, maybe.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe, right.
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: But he was never an informant. But if he was....
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, exactly. And that's kind of.
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: No, that's a good term, doublespeak, yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a problem.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he says, I would reiterate that he was not
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: the type of person that would initiate information flowing to us.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: Despite the fact, Joe, that he asked for the FBI
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: after the fracas, right?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: That sounds to me like initiating information flowing to us,
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: if I've ever heard it, okay? He would be somebody
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: who would be in the area, somebody who could tell
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: us about what went on in the bar. We may
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: have talked to him, okay? Oswald's notebook actually provided evidence
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: that DeBruys was in contact with him. The name Warren
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: De Bruyne, in Oswald's great spelling, at Warren De Bruyne
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: appears there cleverly disguised as two Russian words, allegedly. De
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: Bruyne was sent a copy of this entry in July 1993,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: and he said, I find it interesting. But I think
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: obviously he put my name in his notebook because I
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: had investigated him prior to the assassination.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Did he?
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: Did he?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Did he what? I'm sorry. I was highlighting a comment.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: That is what is called equivocation. It's a verbose attempt
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: to deflect but not actually provide a clear definitive answer. Evasion.
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Thank you, Professor Dave.
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: Much more eloquently said than Joe could ever say it.
• 16:03
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: 100%. No, he says, I find it interesting that I
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: think he obviously put my name in his notebook because
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: I had investigated him prior to the assassination. When did
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: Warren DeBruys investigate Oswald prior to the assassination?
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Wait, is that how he spelled it? W-A-R-R-I-N. Of course,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: there's E-N and D, breweries, of course.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: He was close, but he.
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: He was close, but no cigar.
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: We'll see it here in a minute. In IRL, in
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: real life. Hold on. He says, I talked to the landlord,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: I guess. I assume. I have no idea. There was
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: a multitude of ways he could have gotten my name.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: I talked to his landlady on Magazine Street. The idea
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: was to confirm if he had any employment that placed
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: him in contact with sensitive material. You know, like coffee machines.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: That would have been Mrs.
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: Garner, right? Yes.
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: As far as national security was concerned. And of course,
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: I gave her my name and showed her ID. The
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: HSCA questioned Mrs. Garner, Oswald's landlady, and she said that
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: an FBI agent had come to her home and questioned
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: her about Oswald. Do you remember the name of this
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: FBI agent? His name was Milton Cage. Now, does that
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: sound like Warren DeBruys to you?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: It does not.
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: Okay, me neither. Could that have been Milton Cock? Could
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: have been. It was about a month after Lee moved in.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Much more likely, in my humbled opinion.
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: Yep, Milton Cage, Milton Cock, you know, whatever. Garner checked
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: her address book and found that she had spelled the
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: word cash instead of cock. Cash. I don't know how
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: the hell you actually say his name. Of course, it's
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: more fun to say Milton Cock, but who knows how
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: you actually say it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think you're far off, because if it was
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: like cachet, there would be like an E at the
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: end of it or something.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: I mean, obviously she heard cash. Because that's what she
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: wrote down, but who knows. She also said several Cuban
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: males had visited Oswald.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: DeBruys was asked why Oswald felt it necessary to disguise
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: his name as two Russian words. He said, I got
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: no idea. I got the impression that he fancied himself
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: a spook. I have no idea. I never met him ever.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: And to my knowledge, I never spoke to him. Well,
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: the HSEA called Pena to testify, and he reiterated to
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: the committee that he had seen Oswald and DeBruys together
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: several times. Pena maintained that a few days before he
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: went to testify before the Warren Commission, that DeBruys had
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: threatened him physically and warned him not to make any
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: accusations against him. Pena stated that Wesley Liebler did not
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: cooperate with him and did not let him talk freely,
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: so he decided just to keep his mouth shut.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Right. Can I stop you there? So that is one
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: of the big, I guess it's problems with, if I'm
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: taking the devil's advocate view, which I'd like to do,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: is that he never actually mentioned this in his Warren
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Commission testimony, Pena, but he did in mid-70s, right?
• 19:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: Well, it's not out of the realm of the possibility that,
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, we know how the Warren Commission did people, right?
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: They asked them very specific questions. They didn't just leave
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: open-ended questions for the person that they're interviewing to go
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: off on tangents. You know what I mean?
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they would cut them off and they would change
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: the subject.
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: Correct.
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: Right. So this is not out of the realm of
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: possibility and par for the course, it seems, with the
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: Warren Commission... how they interviewed witnesses.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Right, but I guess my point is it's notable to
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: mention that these allegations didn't come out until the mid-70s.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: They came out before that. Okay. They came out during
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: the Garrison investigation, actually.
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: So you're talking, you know, three years after?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but not the Warren Commission. I'm just trying to
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: get the timeline right. of the accusations.
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: Well, again, the Warren commission was asking very specific questions.
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: They weren't interested in, you know, what the person they
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: were interviewing thought about anything, right? They asked very specific
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: questions and that was it. And they didn't just do
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: it for Pena. They did it for everybody they talked to.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: So correct. It would be like objection leading the witness
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: type of thing. Um, and, and they did that often. Uh,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: the Warren commission, uh, Lawyers were very... to get from
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: each witness.
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: The HSEA found that Pena was not a credible witness
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: for some reason. The CIA claimed to have no pertinent
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: identifiable information on Pena. That's a lie. As of 1993, Pena,
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: who recently suffered a stroke, lives in Florida. Orlando Piedra.
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: whose address was in Oswald's address book, had been the
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: chief of Cuban National Police until 1959. Piedra worked closely
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: with the crime syndicate, that'd be the mob, and the
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: CIA and had monitored Castro's activities while Castro was training
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: his troops in Mexico. He was also involved in the
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: kidnapping of Castro's son and used a Mexican drug trafficker
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: to kidnap one of Castro's chief supporters in Mexico. The
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: FBI reported that Piedra enjoys the distinction of being considered
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: by the Castro regime as one of the principal war
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: criminals in the United States. Piedra was associated with Enrique Parajan,
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: the former chief of Batista's secret police, and he was
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: also a friend of Mr. Carlos Brunier. So allegedly, Oswald
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: had a friend of Carlos Brunier, a guy who happened
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: to be the former chief of Cuban National Police Investigations Bureau.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: that worked closely with the mob and the CIA in
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: his address book. Okay? Now, here is the entry for
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Warren DeBruys in Oswald's address book. I feel like it's
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: an episode of The Oswald Code with A.J. Weberman.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I feel like that too, but I think that This
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: is more....
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: I mean, is this a reach? I don't know.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I don't feel it's as much of a reach as
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: some of the other reaches that others have made.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: Obviously, it's a W and an A, and then a
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: double R, I. The last letter, they say, is an N,
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: but it looks like an H. But the H doesn't
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: make sense here. And it could be an N, just...
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: Instead of a diagonal line, it's horizontal. More horizontal than diagonal.
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: I don't know. Or it could be a lowercase N
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: with some bleeding ink coming from the top like devil horns.
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: I don't know. But you can definitely see the capital
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: D and the lowercase E, the capital B. Then a Y.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: Or maybe that's R into a Y. Who knows?
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I mean....
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: E-E-L-L-E... I don't know if I would know how to
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: spell debris if somebody was telling me it either without
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: seeing it on paper. You know what I mean? Especially
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: how his horse.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: As prep for this show, I had to double check
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: my spelling for it.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: And that's with the internet's help.
• 24:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: Here's an interesting document. Well, actually, we'll come back to
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: this one. Shit. Where is it? There it is. We'll
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: come back to that one. Because that's an interesting one.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: And now we will head over and take a look
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: at some of this stuff from Someone Would Have Talked
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: by Larry Hancock. And a lot of good information, of course,
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: in that book. 10 out of 10 would recommend it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 10: Shit.
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: Oh, you know I got the wrong caption up there.
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: Why didn't you say something, Joe?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Why are we white?
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: Because we were born this way, like Lady Gaga.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: That's what I have to say.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Is this called... Oswald and DeBruys, Mike. That's the name
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: of the doc. That's all it said. I don't know.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: It was from some agency. I don't even know if
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: it was FBI, CIA, what. But whatever it was came
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: out of NARA.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: Someone would have talked. Clay Shaw and David Ferry did
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: do some very stupid things. And both men were investigated
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: shortly after the president's murder. Ferry by Garrison and Shaw
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: by the FBI. This quick FBI investigation of Shaw suggests
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: the FBI security may have well been in possession of
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: informant reports from Oswald describing threatening remarks and perhaps even
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: discussions of killing the president. Reports not shared with the
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: Secret Service prior to the assassination. Joan Mellon does an
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: excellent job of reviewing indications that FBI agents Quigley, DeBruys,
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: and Kennedy of the New Orleans office were well aware
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: that Oswald was being used as an informant. Now, we
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: will take a look at Joan Mellon's book here in
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: a second and see what she actually said because it's
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: cited here. This is substantiated by the fact that New
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: Orleans PD Lieutenant Martello was given DeBruys' name by Lee Oswald.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: He specifically asked Martello to contact DeBruys to visit Oswald
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: after his arrest. Instead, Agent Quigley visited Oswald and conducted
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: an hour-and-a-half interview and would later say that he had
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: burned his notes, which is a problem.
• 27:09
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Because DeBruys had a social commitment that Saturday. Okay? So, basically,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: we have the Swindick investigators for the FBI office. You
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: got Quigley, DeBruys, and Regis Kennedy.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: Regis Kennedy was buddy-buddy tight with Jack Martin and those guys.
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: DeBruys was in tight with the anti-Castro Cuban exile community.
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: And Quigley just happened to be in the wrong place
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: at the right time and not at a barbecue. Eating
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: some po'boys like his boy DeBruys that Saturday when Oswald
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: specifically asked for DeBruys by name. after his arrest for
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: the fracas.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: According to Martello.
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: Right. Who was an NOPD lieutenant.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Not Scafusa. No, he was, I think, in their version
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: of the criminal intelligence, some type of intelligence division.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: Right? I don't know. All I know is Martello alleges
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: that Oswald asked for DeBruy's specifically by name On August 9th, which,
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: as they say, is a problem.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: It's a problem. Hey, Rob, I'm going to refresh really
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: quickly because when I said, why are we white? I
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: can't see your pretty mug or mine. It's just all white.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to just refresh.
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: All right. We'll see you in a little bit, sir.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: All right. While Joe is away. The cats will play.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: We'll keep on getting it. Again, more from someone would
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: have talked. Certainly, Oswald was in communication with the FBI
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans, as seen in his request to speak
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: to the FBI after his arrest during his second Fair
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: Play for Cuba committee leafleting foray outside of the New
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: Orleans trademark. In a farewell to justice, Joan Millen cites
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: her 2002 interview with Irvin Magri, who was present when
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: Larry Howard interviewed former NOPD Lieutenant Martello in the early 90s.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: In that interview, Martello admitted concealing the fact that he
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: was specifically asked to pass a note to FBI agent
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: Warren DeBruys, a name given to him by Oswald. Oswald
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: had handed Martello a note on a piece of paper
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: torn from his notebook and pointed to a number scribbled
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: at the top of the paper. Quote, remember, quote, just
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: call the FBI. Tell them that you have Lee Oswald
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: in custody. When they arrive, hand them this note. Oswald
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: had then told Martello that he wished to be visited
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: by a particular agent, Warren DeBruys. Mellon elaborates on Oswald's
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: visibility to the FBI and the problems this generated for
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: them during the Garrison investigation. At that time, Agent DeBruys
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: was gone. But Regis Kennedy remained in New Orleans and
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: was available to call for testimony. However, Attorney General Ramsey
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: Clark ordered that Agent Kennedy was to reveal no information
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: gained in the course of his official duties. Mellon described
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: local U.S. attorneys for being concerned that this might lead
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: to judicial review and advised Kennedy to use his own judgment. So,
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: Kennedy invoked privilege regarding knowledge of Jack Ruby's New Orleans
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: contacts on the question of whether the FBI had investigated
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: Clay Shaw immediately following the assassination, and on whether he
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: was aware of any connections between Lee Oswald and any Cubans.
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: He only admitted that federal agents in New Orleans had
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: known of Oswald. Alright? So, not only did Oswald ask
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: for DeBruys by name, he specifically gave a note for
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: DeBruys to Martello To give to the FBI when they arrived.
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: Tell them you have Lee Oswald in custody. Ask for
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: Warren DeBreeze to come down here and give them this note.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: A little shaky.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: It's a problem.
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: A little sus.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: A little sus. And sorry to go off track again,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: but happy birthday, Trey. It is his birthday today. One
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: of our.
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: Watch out, Trey.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Ah!
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Hopefully you're... Hopefully you're spending the night in Shreveport. Yeah,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to say that. But yes. No, I
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: wasn't aware that he actually requested debris before... to Martello
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: before Quigley came.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: That would indicate some kind of a relationship.
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: Jinx.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: All right. Is that, is that still a thing?
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: I don't know. After my time, bro, I don't know
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: what your kids did in the nineties.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Jinx. It's when you say the same thing at the
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: same time.
• 32:49
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: We should just punch each other in the fucking shoulder.
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: All right. This is from Jones Mellon's wonderful book. What
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: was it called? Something about justice. Oh, come on, man.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: God. Damn it. A little help in the chat.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Come on.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Joan Mellon's book. We're getting old here. It'll come to me,
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: but it'll probably be after somebody in the chat could
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: just tell us. But from that book, whatever it's called,
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: we have this. Farewell to Justice. Thank you. Thank you, Ann.
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: Farewell to Justice. I knew it was something to Justice.
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: He had run into Oswald giving out leaflets. This is
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: what Dean Andrews told Wesley Liebler. And Dean Andrews said
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: that he told Oswald when he was handing out leaflets, hey, buddy,
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: you still owe me $ 25. And Oswald told Dean Andrews, look,
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: it's just a job. I'm being paid. So Oswald had
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: signaled to Andrews, as he would to others, that he
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: was not really a Castro supporter. Which is odd. Leibler said,
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: your friends down the street are trying to find you.
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: Which is a very odd thing to say to Dean
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: Andrews talking about the FBI. So Andrews said, DeBruys? Alarmed?
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: And they called Regis Kennedy Big Regis. Okay, Big Regis
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: was one thing, but Warren DeBruys, the FBI's most intelligent, shrewd,
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: and trusted agent in New Orleans, although he was not
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: a special agent in charge, was quite another. It was
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: DeBruys who had flown to Dallas on November 23rd to
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: write the FBI's report that would become the Voluminous Commission
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: Document No. 75, dated December 2nd. So, even Dean Andrews
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: is scared of DeBruys, Joe.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very interesting.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: For a reason. He said he was the most shrewd, intelligent,
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: cunning FBI agent in New Orleans.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't doubt it. And as we'll get to a
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: little later, he was brought to Dallas on that Saturday
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: morning and stayed there for months, months. Yeah.
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: But we'll get there. We promise.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: Allegedly more from farewell to justice. And this kind of
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: ties in with something we talked about earlier this year.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: The INS, right?
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: Um, At least 10 or 12 times, Pena testified that
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: he saw Oswald sharing breakfast with his customs handlers. Now,
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: the customs house and the INS were all in the
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: building across the street from the Havana bar. He had
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: witnessed his own handler, Warren DeBruys, at that same Greek
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: restaurant when Oswald was there with other federal agents. I
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: believe they knew each other very, very well, Pena said
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: of Oswald and DeBruys. Pena talked at length to Jim Garrison,
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: although no memos survived. And we know he did because
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: we have the records of it in the Weisberg archives.
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: We have the letters, the interviews, the phone calls from
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: Weisberg to Pena. Pena had also observed Oswald, DeBruys, David Smith,
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: and Wendell Roach, those two guys are from the Immigration Service,
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: the INS, leave the restaurant together and head for the
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: Customs House building. In 1976, staff members of the Church
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: Committee knew that Smith was involved in CIA operations in
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: New Orleans in the early 60s. In his testimony, DeBruys
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: acknowledged his acquaintance with Border Patrol agent Smith, and Roach
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: also admitted his acquaintance with Warren DeBruys. Quote, I knew him, huh,
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: Roach said curtly. An investigator for the INS in New Orleans,
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: Theophanis Popolis. Hold on. Let me get this right. Theophanis E. Popolis.
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: If that ain't a Greek son of a bitch, I
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: don't know.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Who it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: Is.
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: Swore under oath before the church committee. George Joanides who?
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: We got Theophanis Popolis, baby. So we're under oath before
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: the church committee that DeBruys had a working relationship with
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: the New Orleans INS office. Now, one of the things
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: that we, me and Joseph, alleged, okay, at a certain point,
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: is that Oswald, after being fired from Jagger's Child Stovall,
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: went to New Orleans at the beginning of of April
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: right there is no official talk or documentation of him
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: taking a trip to New Orleans this early this is
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: right before the Walker shooting happens right well Roach well
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: yeah I mean but I'm saying in the official story
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: right in the official story yes right documentation.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah you're right Dave Roach and Smith, Salt, Lea Jo
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: with Ferry, and then we also have the Flight Manifest.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Go back to our Walker episode for that.
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: Yes. We managed to.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: There had to be a reason. An inception point, if
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: you will, for all of this New Orleans stuff. What
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: would become that That summer and that August leading up
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: to him finally leaving, going to Mexico and then Dallas, allegedly.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: So let us continue. Let's... As an FBI informant, Pena
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: reported to Warren DeBruys beginning in 59 or 60. Pena
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: placed Oswald with customs officials on a regular basis. So
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: explosive were Pena's revelations about Oswald's relationships with customs officers
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: that Pena's files were systematically destroyed by the FBI, Joe...
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: in a multi-city effort that stretched across to Europe. One
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: document survives, a teletype directed to J. Edgar, dated January 14th, 76,
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: although by then, Hoover is dead. Rome file regarding Arreste Pena, I.S.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: Cuba destroyed. Okay? Now, there's a weird thing that happens
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: in August... pre fracas Oswald writes a letter. Okay. To
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: the head office of the fair play for Cuba committee
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: to VT Lee. And he explains the entire fracas situation,
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: you know, that he got into a fight with some
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: angry Cuban exiles, some anti-Castro Cuban exiles, the police came
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: and they took me to jail and what, you know, whatever, whatever.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: But he wrote this letter. It was dated August 1st.
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: It was dated August 1st. It was mailed on the 4th.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: The fracas didn't happen until the 9th. Okay. So either
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: Oswald could read the future, which meant that this entire
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: thing was planned, or that there was another incident that
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: happened with Oswald getting in a fight with some anti-Castro
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: Cuban exiles. and getting arrested by the police and taken
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: to jail, which we found documentation of when we're talking
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: about the whole Roach and Smith. They said that Oswald
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: had been arrested, I guess, by the local NOPD, And
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: brought to the INS, or they call the INS officers
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: in because Oswald was claiming to be a Cuban national.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: He would not speak English. Okay. So the INS guys
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: come in and they're like, you know, they're trying to speak,
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: you know, Spanish to him or whatever. And Oswald, I guess,
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: gets a little kick out of it and says, I'm
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm not really Cuban. I'm English.
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I'm American. And they were like,
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: all right, dude, get the fuck out of here.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Stop wasting our time.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: So there's no official arrest record or report or any
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: of that for this incident, which is a problem. But
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: he was just fucking around and he got his ass
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: beat and the cops came, they picked him up, they
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: called in INS and they just cut him loose. And
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: the guy is very specific about remembering this because he
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: was sent to to a different post on April 10th.
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: And he said it happened a couple days prior to that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: So he had a good goal post in mind, a
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: good sign post in his head. He knew it had
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: happened a couple days before he was sent to a
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: new position somewhere else, which occurred on April the 10th,
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: which happens to be the same day that Walker was
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: shot at.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: So.
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: here to with Oswald must be in new Orleans when
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: he shouldn't be prior to the Walker shooting, because the
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: weekend right before the Walker shooting, right? The Friday before the,
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: with that weekend, he had been fired from Jagger's child Stovall.
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: So we did an entire show about all of this already,
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: but it's important to, uh, repeat little pieces of it
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: here because it's important.
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: To the story.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: It is relevant.
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: So, it is August 16th. Joe, Oswald has gotten out
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: of jail. He's been bailed out and he's leafleting in
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: front of the trademark. Okay?
• 43:53
  Speaker 9: Again.
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: Again. Again, this is from the Joan Mellon book. It
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: is August 16th, another suffocating summer day in New Orleans
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: and Standing just inside the doors of the trademark is
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: Warren DeBruys, Oswald's handler, his shadow. Oswald enters the press
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: club where he asks for a glass of ice water.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: Seated at the bar is state's item reporter on the
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: police beat, Jack Dempsey, a big, buff, generous Irishman in
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: his characteristic long-sleeved white shirt, bow tie, and straw hat,
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: still holding one of Oswald's Fair Play for Cuba leaflets.
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: Dempsey offers Oswald a beer. No thank you, sir. Water
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: would do me better than a beer or a Coke.
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: Now this is coming from a New Orleans State's item reporter. Okay.
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: Which is interesting. So Debris is spotted just inside the
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: doors of the trademark. And he's called Oswald's handler, his shadow. Interesting.
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: There was, now let's talk about the new Orleans FBI
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: office and get a little bit more in depth with
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: this stuff. Cause the special agent in charge in new
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: Orleans was a guy named Harry Maynard. All right. He's
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: kind of like the Gordon Shanklin from Dallas in new Orleans, right?
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: He's a special agent in charge. Two names appeared on
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: a file jacket.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: Well, Lee Oswald in quote in quotes and Warren Debris.
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: Oswald's file resided with those connected to ongoing surveillance and
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: paid informants and were locked up for some security purpose.
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: The files, they mean the files were locked up later.
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: William Walter, who was a guy that worked in the
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: FBI office in new Orleans, the same guy that said
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: he pulled that teletype off that thing, you know, the
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: night before the 22nd, um, Later, William Walter told Garrison
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: that during the summer of 63, the FBI had two
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: distinct sets of files on Oswald and were communicating with
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: him on a regular basis. This is coming from an
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: insider in the New Orleans FBI office, folks.
• 46:19
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Not some skafooza.
• 46:21
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: And we'll see more of him here in a minute.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: David Ferry or something.
• 46:25
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: Quigley telephoned Warren DeBruy's. whose excuse for not visiting Oswald
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: in jail was that he had to attend a barbecue.
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: Quigley himself was to interview Oswald, an interview lasting more
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: than an hour and a half. Later, Quigley said that
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: he burned his notes, conveniently. Martello kept Oswald's original note, however,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: transcribed part of it for the FBI, and kept the
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: original with its fuller detail. This he secreted among his
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: personal possessions for the next 30 years. The original is
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: a hodgepodge of English and Russian filled with cryptic abbreviations
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: such as Mapurus, Hapus. None of the numbers correspond exactly
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: to the numbers on files at the New Orleans office. Hmm. Okay. Quote,
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: I can infiltrate your organization and find out what you're
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: doing here anytime, DeBruys had told Brignyay. Only for Oswald
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: suddenly to materialize and attempt to infiltrate their organization and
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: find out what they're doing. Conveniently enough. Because remember, allegedly,
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: the CIA is funding the DRE, right? Yeah. So the
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: FBI is kind of out of the loop about what
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: the hell is actually going on, right? Meanwhile, Brunier himself
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: was an FBI and CIA informant, and DeBruys remembers him
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: as a source. While Brunier called himself the DRE's public
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: relations officer in New Orleans, his file resided in the
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: DRE files in its military section. For some reason. Following
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: his arrest, Oswald was questioned by Lieutenant Martello, formerly of
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: New Orleans Police Intelligence, Joe. So you were right. But
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: now he's a lieutenant.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: It's rare, but sometimes I am.
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: Hey.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I'll take it.
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: Hey, take it when you can.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Take the W's.
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: Just at the American embassy in the Soviet Union in 59,
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: Oswald had handed the senior consular official a handwritten note
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: requesting that his citizenship be revoked. So now he handed
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: Martello a note on a piece of paper torn from
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: his notebook. Its reverse side included the Moscow telephone numbers
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: of the United Press International and the Associated Press. Interesting.
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: Oswald pointed to a number scribbled at the top of
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: the note and said, Just call the FBI. Tell them
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: you have Lee Oswald in custody. And when they get here,
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: hand them this note. Oswald added that he wished to
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: be visited by a particular agent named Warren DeBruyne. In
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: the pre-dawn hours of that Saturday morning, a young FBI
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: clerk named William Walter took Martello's call. There was only
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: one agent present in the field office at the time,
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: John Quigley. With the number Martello relayed in hand, Quigley
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: ordered Walter to search the office indices for records of
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: a Lee Oswald, and Walter found 105 files in the
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: New Orleans office.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: And by the way, I don't see any reason, or
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I can't ascertain any reason, of why Martello would lie
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I don't see it.
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: As often as they could, Blakey and Cornwell separated Burris
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: and Delsa. Burris had to take Harold Leap, who was
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: a CIA man, on the committee with him when he
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: interviewed former FBI clerk William Walter for some reason. They
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: wouldn't let him take LJ Delsa with him, Joe. As
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: Walter discussed a report written by DeBruys, which established that
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: DeBruys had contacted Oswald as an FBI security informant, Leap,
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: The CIA guy repeatedly interrupted him. Irritated by Leap's attempts
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: to prevent him from talking, Walter was indignant. I know
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: what I know, and I know what I saw, he
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: said angrily. Oswald had an informant status with our office,
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: end quote. Other agents besides DeBruy's had contacted Oswald. Later
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: testifying in Washington, Walter had to endure repeated insinuations by
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: committee lawyers that he was lying. Mm-hmm. Which is not cool, man.
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: Not cool.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: And it's not. And it's not.
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: So back to the document that I started to show earlier.
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: And this kind of follows up a little bit. This
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: is an HSCA document and an interview with Furman Balgin. Joe,
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: do you know who Furman Balgin is?
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I do not. You got me.
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: Well, he was another agent in the FBI field office
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: So another guy who probably should have been in the
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: know about some things, right? So the HSCA goes to
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: talk to him. In Thibodeau, Louisiana. Okay. Okay.
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: So, here's why this is interesting. So, Burris and the
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: CIA guy, Leap, who they stuck with him instead of Delsa, okay,
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: to go talk to this FBI guy. So, here's Leap
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: again with Burris probably getting interrupted trying to talk to
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: this guy about shit, right? Police when they talked to
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: me at the nickel state college campus police office, uh,
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: to the investigation response of the new Orleans FBI office
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: to the assassination of JFK and the security investigation of
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: LA Joe prior to the assassination, Balgan advised that he
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: was employed by the FBI and stationed in new Orleans
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: field office from 56 to 69. Most of his duties
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: at that time involved police training. However, He did assume
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: additional duties as assigned by the special agent in charge
• 53:00
  Speaker 5: of the office. Boggan said LHO was the subject of
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: a security investigation prior to the assassination. The case officer
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: for the investigation was none other than Milton Koch. Boggan
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: said he did not assist in the investigation. Special agents
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: assigned to the security unit at that time consisted of
• 53:22
  Speaker 5: Milton Koch and Warren DeBruys, and several other agents whose
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: names he could not remember. The unit reported directly to
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: the special agent in charge, Harvey Maynor. Signed, Harold Leap
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: and Robert Burris. In March of 78, Balgan stated that
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: the allegations that the Bureau received advance notice that JFK
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: would be killed in Dallas and that LHO was an
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: FBI informer were entirely false. So now, after that, he's
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: blatantly stating that the whole teletype issue with William Walter
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: is bullshit. Leap asked Balgan if there were any New
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: Orleans special agents had been censored for their handling of
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: the LHO investigation. Balgan said that Koch was not censored
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: because of the LHO investigation. Balgan said that if Koch
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: had been censored, he certainly would have been aware of it.
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: No follow-up recommended, Joe. End of message.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: Of course. Of course. Of course. Now, that being said,
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: we're going to take a quick look at a five-minute
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: video that we're going to fairly use for analysis that's
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: going to contain Oris Pena, William Walter, and Warren DeBrees.
• 54:48
  Speaker 5: Five minutes. Five minutes. All three of these dudes are
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: going to be in this video. We've been talking about him,
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: and I want you guys, we've showed this on here before.
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: I believe it's on members only, though, but not here
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: on the real show, but we're going to show it
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: here tonight. And it's interesting. Watch mannerisms, how people talk,
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: and look at the shit-eating grin on Warren DeBruy's face
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: the whole time he's talking. And I want you to
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: notice on William Walter's face the sincerity and the anger
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: that he feels about the whole situation. And also watch
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: Orest Pena and his mannerisms when he talks about DeBruy's
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: wanting to get his ass. I don't know if that
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: means beat his ass or rape his ass. I don't know.
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: Pena may have taken it both ways. But here we go, Joe.
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: Here we go, Joe. You ready? Strap in, folks.
• 55:48
  Speaker 11: Five minutes.
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: We'll be right back.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Before, can you see me right now?
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: You're frozen.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm refreshing. Just filibuster for 10 seconds.
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: We won't see you anyway when I'm playing the video, so...
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: Here you go, folks.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Warren C. DeBrew.
• 56:15
  Speaker 9: Warren DeBrew is an FBI agent, and you saw him
• 56:18
  Speaker 9: with Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, I knew.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Warren C.
• 56:21
  Speaker 10: DeBrew very well because I used to.
• 56:24
  Speaker 9: Work with him. What did you do with Warren DeBrew?
• 56:28
  Speaker 10: I was an informer for the FBI about the people
• 56:34
  Speaker 10: in New Orleans.
• 56:36
  Speaker 9: What happened when the FBI agent who you said you
• 56:41
  Speaker 9: had seen with Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: By the way, that suit is freaking phenomenal.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like it.
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: He is a very dapper little Cuban. I love him.
• 56:52
  Speaker 9: So the man you were the informant for, what happened
• 56:54
  Speaker 9: when he came to the bar before you went to
• 56:56
  Speaker 9: the Warren Commission?
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: About 10 days before I went to testify at the
• 57:00
  Speaker 7: Warren Commission.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Could be less than 10 days.
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: He came and he called me from behind the bar
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: and said.
• 57:08
  Speaker 7: He wanted to talk to me. He called me on
• 57:10
  Speaker 7: the table.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: He told me he.
• 57:13
  Speaker 10: Was very, very nervous.
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: Very nervous.
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: And he told me, If you ever talk anything about me,
• 57:20
  Speaker 7: I will get rid of you, us.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Yours and God's world.
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: Juan C.
• 57:28
  Speaker 7: DeBruys is now the special agent in charge of the
• 57:30
  Speaker 7: FBI office in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: He talked to Bruce Hall. Real quick, after the Warren
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: Commission was over, the Warren Commission investigation, they sent DeBruys
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: to Puerto Rico to be the special agent in charge.
• 57:48
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: Which is a pretty nice effing gig, if you ask me. Here,
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: we're going to send you to Caribbean Island, sir.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't believe he... He obviously testified to
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: the HSCA.
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: He was retired by then.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Right, but it was 155 pages, like I mentioned before.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I don't believe he talked to the Warren Commission.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Which.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a problem considering he was brought there
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: the day after and stayed there for a couple months.
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: He was needed in Puerto Rico, Joe. What can I
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: tell you?
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I know. That's an important posting, right?
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: Look at this son of a bitch's shit-eating grin the
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: entire time he's talking about Oswald.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: Here we go.
• 58:38
  Speaker 9: Did you know Arresta Pena, who is the operator of
• 58:40
  Speaker 9: the Havana bar in New Orleans? What was your relationship
• 58:44
  Speaker 9: with him?
• 58:46
  Speaker 10: He was an individual that I recall having contacted perhaps
• 58:53
  Speaker 10: as many as a dozen times, I suppose, during the
• 59:00
  Speaker 10: early 1960s, prior to the assassination of President Kennedy.
• 59:05
  Speaker 9: Arresta Peña says that he was, in a literal sense,
• 59:08
  Speaker 9: an informer for the FBI, and he knew you well
• 59:12
  Speaker 9: because you were his contact man with the FBI, and
• 59:15
  Speaker 9: that on numerous occasions, he saw you and Lee Harvey
• 59:19
  Speaker 9: Oswald together, and in particular, in a Greek restaurant in
• 59:23
  Speaker 9: New Orleans in the French Quarter. What is your response
• 59:26
  Speaker 9: to that?
• 59:27
  Speaker 10: My response to that is he.
• 59:31
  Speaker 10: Is wrong in his statements. I have never seen Lee
• 59:35
  Speaker 10: Harvey Oswald at any time in my life personally, nor
• 59:42
  Speaker 10: have I talked.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: To him by telephone knowingly.
• 59:47
  Speaker 10: I've had absolutely no contact, no personal knowledge, firsthand contact
• 59:53
  Speaker 10: with Lee Harvey Oswald, nor do I have any secondary
• 59:56
  Speaker 10: contact with him.
• 59:58
  Speaker 9: Was Lee Harvey Oswald an informant of the FBI?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 10: He was not my informant, and I have no information
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 10: whatsoever that he had ever been an informant for the FBI.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 9: Did you ever use the phrase to get your ass
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 9: or threaten Arresta Pena in any way in connection with
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 9: his Warren Commission testimony?
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 10: I certainly don't recall ever having made that a statement
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 10: to Arresta Pena. My recollection is that I treated him
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 10: with a great deal of patience and with due respect.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 10: there would have been no reason whatsoever for me to
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 10: have made.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Such a statement.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 7: William Walter was an FBI security code clerk in the
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 7: New Orleans office of the FBI from 1961 until 1966.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 7: He told me about.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: Now this is the guy who they say is lying
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: about everything that he said about being in the FBI office.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: Watch him very closely.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: By the way, to preface it, with no really benefit
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: to him Personally. I don't think this could have improved
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: conditions for him.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: By the time all this shit came out, he wasn't
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: even working for the FBI anymore.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: Right. Also, just to reflect on some of DeBruy's DeBru's, whatever.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Look at his eyes. They're like Going up, to the right,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: they're going down, based on whatever question.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you can tell he's so full of shit, pausing
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: before he answers to say the right thing, you know.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: But he's, like, very calculated in his response. I mean,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: he's a cold character here, you know what I mean? Like,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: he knows how to.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, contrast it with William Walter here, okay?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: Here we go.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 7: Do you think Oswald was... By your definition, and by
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 7: the Bureau's definition, an informant?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: Yes, I'm sure he was.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 7: And you are certain, on the basis of what you
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 7: did in the normal course of your duties, that Oswald's
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 7: name was on the New Orleans FBI Office Security Index file?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: I'm positive.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 10: I would say that's a falsehood. Had he been an informant,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 10: and had I had him as a subject of my investigation,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 10: it would have been logical that I would have been
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 10: aware of that fact because of cross-references in the file
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 10: and for many other reasons. And I'd say that is
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 10: a falsehood.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 7: Mr.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 9: Walters also says that Oswald's name was on the security
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 9: index file. Could Oswald's name have been on the security
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 9: index file? And what was the security index file?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 10: I have no idea at this time whether his name
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 10: was on any type of special index. And as relates
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 10: to what U-term, a security index file, I'd rather not
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 10: get into the discussion of administrative techniques employed within the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 10: office and respectfully decline to answer that question.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 7: On November 1st, 1963, FBI agent James P. Hostie visited
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 7: the Payne home, seeking Oswald's whereabouts. Hostie's name and telephone
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 7: number were found in Oswald's notebook when he was arrested
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 7: after the Kennedy murder. The FBI failed to tell the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 7: Warren Commission that after Hostie's visit to Marina....
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: That is definitely James Holstein. You're muted.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: No, I'm trying to. Oh, I know what I'm doing. Duh. Allegedly,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: I know what I'm doing. All right. Two more things
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: to share real quick, and then I'm going to turn
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: it over to Joe. And again, this is just to
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: substantiate what we've already talked about here. That could possibly
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 5: be something that put Oswald onto DeBruy's radar. Okay. Early
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: in 63 in New Orleans.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: How early?
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 10: Spring?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: Summer?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 7: Fall?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: Spring. Okay.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: Easterling claims he first encountered Oswald during the spring or
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: summer of 63. While he is not sure of the date,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: Easterling insists that he witnessed an incident involving Oswald at
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: Oris Pena's Havana bar that is unrecorded in standard accounts
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: of Oswald's New Orleans activities. Easterling claims he came upon
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: a sidewalk fracas on Decatur Street near the doorway to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: the Havana bar. Several Cubans were kicking the shit out
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 5: of a young man Easterling came to know as Oswald.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: As Easterling stood there watching... Rivera rushed out of the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: bar with a broken beer bottle and forced the men
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: to stop beating Oswald. Now, Rivera is a fake name
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: that he is using to cover for somebody specific. I
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: don't know who. But anyway, this guy rushed out of
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: the bar with a broken beer bottle and forced the
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: men to stop beating Oswald. Then, police officers arrived about
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: the time the scuffle ended. Easterling claims that Oswald got
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 5: up and without any comment walked away. allegedly with the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: police officers. Easterling did not learn what the altercation was about. Now,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: we always said, on its own, this is an anomaly
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: in the story of Oswald in New Orleans. On its own. But,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: when you can corroborate it from a different source, and
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: then another source, it becomes something more than an anomaly.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: And that would be specifically the INS agents?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: Roach and Smith, yes.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Trying to find the other thing we talked about here.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: Hold on.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: So can you envision a scenario when Oswald in New Orleans,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: and this is just me like spitballing here, in early
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: August when he writes that letter to VT Lee, was
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: recounting the possible spring incident and passing it off as
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: the early August incident?
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't think he was passing it off as
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 5: that because obviously it hadn't happened yet. You know, he
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: can't control what Breguet is going to do when he's
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: handing out leaflets on Canal Street. He doesn't know there's
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: going to be a fracas. He doesn't know there's going
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: to be a fight.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about the first alleged fracas.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 5: What about it?
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, could Oswald have recounted that August 1st or
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: 4th letter before the Breguet fracas... could he have been
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: referencing this spring.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying. Well, no, you also said he
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: was passing it off as the fracas that happened on
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: the 9th, but he wasn't doing that because it hadn't
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: happened yet.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, bad choice of words. But I'm saying, like,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: could he have just written it months later before the
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: second fracas allegedly with Breguet and just recounted that fracas?
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what we're alleging here, yeah. Yeah, okay. And
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: then a little corroboration to the incident because people love
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: to not believe something from just one source. Well, we
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: got two. And this one's official, okay? This is an
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: FBI document to the special agent in charge of New
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: Orleans from Special Agent I don't know who that is.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: Henry Becker? Something?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Becker or Decker? It might be Becker.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 5: Becker? Who knows?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Decker.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: Floyd Tipping Tepting Something An American Radio Association of the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 5: American Radio Association at 527 Canal Street telephonically advised on
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: this date which is December 13th, 63. Uh, advised that
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 5: this date that he was riding in Bell Taxi Cab
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: number 1008 when the driver engaged him in conversation regarding
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 5: the Oswald matter. The cab driver advised him that he
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: was in the vicinity of the Havana Bar at Canal
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: and Decatur Streets approximately nine months ago. Joe, what's nine
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: months before December?
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: That would be approximately April.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, March or April, you know.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: I mean, it says March 63 over here, but looking back,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 5: you can approximate, he's probably approximating, yeah, about nine months ago.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: It's a recollection. Approximately nine months ago, and witnessed Oswald
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 5: and several Cubans involved in an argument which appeared to
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: be leading to a fight. The fracas was broken up
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 5: by Al, okay, the beat officer in the area. Hepting
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 5: was unable to provide any additional information. So here we
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 5: have corroboration. Of this early April, Havana bar fracas with
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 5: Cubans involved and the cops showing up.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: More corroboration. Yes.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: Yes. So they finally, and they figured out who the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 5: driver of the Bell taxi cab was regarding more specific information.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: And it says on 12-18-63, I don't know what that
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: word is. A lot of this, blah, blah, blah. No,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: New Orleans City Hall advised that the driver, I guess,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 5: of the cab was Harvey. Karnoosh. Harvey Karnoosh. Whom they
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: ended up interviewing and corroborating the story. And you also
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 5: have the INS guys who claimed that they interviewed Oswald
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 5: in early April in a New Orleans interrogation room at
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: the jail. Not necessarily. He was in jail. All right,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: so they probably hooked him up, took him down, and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: he was like, I am a Cuban national, me no
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: speaking no English. So they call in the INS, and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: they were like, seriously, dude, get.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Out of here. You're a scufusa.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: And which would go towards the premise that they wouldn't
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: have to write a report on it because, like, why
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: create extra paperwork type of thing?
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: Like, there's no need to at that point.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, you know, this guy was getting his
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: butt beat in a fight. They didn't arrest any Cubans
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 5: that were beating his ass. They just basically picked him
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: up and hauled him off for some reason. And last
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 5: thing I got for you, Joe, is Warren DeBruy's house.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: Where he lived at in New Orleans at 4827 Michaud Boulevard.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 7: Ooh.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: Not a shabby residence. Fairly nice brick home. Probably at
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: least three or four bedrooms, garage, fenced-in yard, beautiful street.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: Decent neighborhood for Mr. Warren DeBruys.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Interesting.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: Oswald would leave New Orleans at the end of September, 1963,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: allegedly go to Mexico and upon his return, head to Dallas.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: And we all know what happened there. And after Oswald
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: is arrested on November 22nd, 63, and they figure out
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: who they got there. And from a military intelligence source,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: they find out that he had been arrested in New Orleans. Uh,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: involving some anti-Caster Cuban exiles and a fight. So I'm
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 5: assuming Hoover or somebody got on the horn and said, Hey,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: Warren DeBruys, get your ass to Dallas now. And on
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: the morning of November 23rd, 1963, we have Warren DeBruys
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: arriving in Dallas. Because one can only assume that maybe
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: he knew Oswald best. Just an assumption, Joe. I mean,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I'm just speculating.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're going to get to some of his
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: statements where he said they had hundreds of FBI agents
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: there at the time. So why bring DeBruys there if
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: he didn't have some value add to the situation?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Right?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: If he could have contributed something. So, I have my
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: PowerPoint ready to go. We're going to get into some
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: of this, including a pre-assassination document from Debris on Oswalt. But, Rob,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry to do this. You've got to give me
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: 30 seconds. Bath and break. Check some comments.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: Old man Joe didn't piss before the show. All right. Well,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: we got looks like over 50 people in here right now.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: Let's see what's popping off in the chat while Joe
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 5: goes and sees a man about a horse or a
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: miniature horse. Let's see here. Yeah, this is going boombada.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: Marvin Giesling, a supervisor in the FBI's Domestic Intelligence Division,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: October 9th, canceled the FBI's flash notice on Lee Harvey
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: Oswald approximately six weeks before the Kennedy assassination. Yes. Yes,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 5: despite the fact that Hostie, at that point in October,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: was supposed to be looking into him. Unless, of course,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 5: the FBI was unaware that Oswald had went to Dallas,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 5: but You'd think that the guys keeping an eye on
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 5: him in New Orleans would have known that his wife
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: had went back to Dallas. And that by the 9th
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: of October, that's also Oswald's back from Mexico. He's staying
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: at the Y for a little bit. He's got a
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 5: rooming house. Two of them, actually, by then. And then
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: five days after they canceled the flash notice, he gets
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: a job at the School Book Depository, which is... problem
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 5: and hence why heads rolled at the FBI after the
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 5: assassination in a massive attempt to cover up their ineptitude
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 5: for being able to watch Oswald and be aware of
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: him I mean Hoover seriously took a lot of action
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: against a lot of his FBI guys he demoted them
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 5: he fined them He sent him to, you know, bad positions. Yeah.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, he sent Hostie to freaking Kansas City, the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: armpit from hell. The devil's armpit, as we call it.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Where did he send Bannister, even though this is
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: not completely related to the JFK assassination, but there's a
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: precedent for if you piss off Hoover, he's going to
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: send you to a shit, shit ass post.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 5: Well, no, he was, he was never pissed at Bannister.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: I think Bannister, he had spent some time in Honolulu,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 5: which is pretty sweet gig. He has spent some time
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 5: in Montana with, you know, it's beautiful there.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, that's, and he ended up.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: In Chicago as special agent in charge of Chicago. I mean,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 5: that's pretty big, pretty big deal.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: I think I was referring to Montana.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 5: Um, But that's not a shit gig. He was doing
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: the X-Files investigations then.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: Right, the UFO stuff, yes.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, sorry about that. I drank like two cups
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: of coffee before this episode. Sorry about that. Yeah, if
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: you want to put this up, Rob, let's get into
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: some documents here. Some other documents. in regards to Mr. Debris.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: They call me Debris.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: And this is one of the most telling documents. This
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: was on October 25th. Right, which would have been about
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: a month before the assassination. And it has to do
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: with the Fair Play for Cuba committee, New Orleans division.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: Um, And.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: We'll maintain contact with Cuban sources for any indication of
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: additional activity on the part of subject organization. which appears
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: to have become inactive since the departure from New Orleans
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: of Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: And oh, by the way, one of the offices flagged
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 5: here to receive this notice is Dallas.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: It is Dallas. It is New Orleans, of course, and
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: New York, which is where the Fair Play for Cuba
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Committee headquarters was, right?
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: What's interesting about this document, Joe, is if you look
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 5: under the Bureau of Dissemination, copies made, there's a copy
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 5: going to the INS. Or the INNS.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's the precursor to the INS.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so everything that we've heard about Oswald possibly having
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: ties to the INS or Customs or Border Patrol or
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 5: whatever you want to call them is probably relevant here.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. When you look at documents like these,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: you could look at the top half of it and
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: see you know lee harvey oswald but when you really
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: look at who cc'd on it for lack of a
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: better term it really gives interesting context right yeah and
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: you see debruy's uh signature on the bottom right center
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: here um so this this caused a big concern uh
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: or a I guess was the basis of a lot
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: of allegations or conspiracies or whatever.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 5: So they wouldn't, they wouldn't just send a copy to
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 5: Dallas for no reason. Okay.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: They knew Oswald had family there and he had lived
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 5: there before. And Marina was likely there. And of course
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 5: Oswald was there by then when he wrote the report.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: And as we're going to see, DeVries knew a lot
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: more about Oswald's pre-assassination than he liked to admit after. Hence,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: this coming document of the same day. Information from New
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: Orleans PD on August 9, 1963. That would be the
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: day of the fracas.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: Well, again, at the top, Joe. Copy to INNS. Oh, yeah.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: Immigration and Naturalization Service. Yeah. Okay, copy them. Make sure
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: they're in the loop.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: Another checkmark for corroboration. Oswald was arrested on that date
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: for disturbing the peace along with three other Cubans who
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: had objected to Oswald's distribution of FPCC literature. Oswald was
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: fined $ 10 or 10 days on August 12th in municipal court.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Of course, we've all seen in New Orleans, we've all
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: seen that video of you know guitar and all the
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: other cubans.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: Funny he didn't mention that he asked me for me
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 5: specifically after he was arrested right he left that out
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 5: of the report.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: Of course also reported to have just distributed fpcs literature
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: in new orleans on 816 yes he was back at
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: it that's where you You know, you have that, what
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: is it, WDC something footage of him out there.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 5: WDSU.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with, you know, allegedly Shelly or whatever. But he
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: was definitely there in the 16th.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 5: It wasn't Shelly, it was Beckham.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but it obviously didn't deter him from going
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: right back out on the distribution literature route. Along with
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: other unknown white male, Oswald appeared on a radio program
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: on 8-21 in a debate against two anti-Castro persons, that
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: would be Butler and Brignier, at which time Oswald denied
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: that FPCC is communist-controlled. We all know this, and he
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: was a Marxist. Oswald reported to have moved from New
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: Orleans on 9-25-63 and believed to have returned to Texas.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: FPCC handbills distributed by Oswald bore the name of A.J. Heidel, P.O. Box, whatever,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: which Box was determined to be non-existent. Cuban sources at
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: New Orleans have no pertinent information regarding anyone named Heidel,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: and there is no record of any such name in
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans directory or from credit sources. No details
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: concerning the above information As made available by Lieutenant Gaylot,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: or as follows.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 7: Gayot.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 6: Gayot.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's French, yes.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 5: He's from the French Quarter.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: So, Lee Harvey Oswald, white male, age 23, born October 1839,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: New Orleans, Magazine Street, Center Apartment. Oswalt informed a resting
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: officer that he's a member of the New Orleans chapter
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: of the Fair Play for Cuba committee, which headquarters at
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: 799 Broadway in New York City. Lieutenant Gaia.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 5: Gaio.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: Gaio. The T is silent. Gaio. Informed that Oswalt was
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: handing out yellow leaflets with the inscription, Hands Off Cuba,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: Visa Castro. Carlos Brene, white male, 29, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: immigrated to this country in 61, INS number, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: and he has a clothing shop at 107 Decatur Street. Also, Hernandez,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: white male, age 47, Rob, he advised he's a member
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: of the same group as Brene. Miguel, it says Mariano,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: or Manuel Cruz, also arrested, right, with Oswald, and or
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: one of the three Cubans that were arrested. H-18 advised
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: he is also a member of the DRE. Lieutenant Gallo,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: did I get that right? Explained that Oswald, who claimed
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: to be a member of the Fair Public Cuba Committee,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: was passing out literature. We all know this. Patrolmen F.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: Hayward and F. Wilson of the 1st District He was
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: charged with disturbing the peace by creating a scene. August 16th,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: this is kind of the same thing. On August 19th, Mr.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Jesse Corr, International Trademark, advised that the two parties who
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: were distributing handbills for the FPCC as set forth above
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: were described as follows. One was white male, 145 pounds, 5'9,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: age 32 or 33.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: Pallid complexion, black hair. Second was described as 22 or 23,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: which I'm guessing was Oswald. Six feet, although that wouldn't
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: have been Oswald. Black hair, narrow shoulders, and a broad waist. Joseph...
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: Let me see if this is relevant here. I'm just
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: going to skip to the last part. It was previously
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: determined on August 5th, 1963, from Mrs. Jessie James Gardner.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: Magazine Street, 4909 New Orleans, that Lee Harvey Oswald and
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: his wife Marina Oswald have resided at Magazine Street since
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: June of 63. So why is... Why is a report
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: from Debris coming on August 5th, or.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: I guess the date is October 25th, but why is.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: They knew pre-fracas where he was living.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: Right, but it alleges that they or.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 5: That he was on their radar pre-fracas.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: And four days before the August 9th fracas.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 5: So either, because it's been alleged that Oswald handed out
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 5: flyers down by the docks to some, you know, people
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 5: coming off the boats, sailors or whatever. So they may
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 5: have investigated that. Or this was from an informant named, well, no,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 5: Kiroga would have been after the fracas too.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's weird to me. That just stood out. Because, like,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: why would they go talk to Oswald's landlady on August 5th, 63?
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: It might be more corroborating evidence of a possible previous
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: fracas or some intelligence given to him by some.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 5: Human as well. Maybe somebody gave him a leaflet that
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 5: he was handing out that had his Magazine Street address
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: on it.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: That could be true too. Although I don't believe we
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: have any instances of where he was leafleting prior to
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: August 9th, do we?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 5: Just on the docks to, like, that Wasp ship or
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 5: whatever it was.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they could have been following up on that.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: Like I said, Debris was definitely, like... But, I mean.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: The media didn't cover it. Nothing happened there to draw
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 5: any attention. Maybe somebody just turned one of these leaflets
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 5: over and said some kooky asshole gave me this as
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 5: I was getting off the boat.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: Who knows? Yeah, I don't know. I just found that
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: very interesting. So, let's... Let me read this. And you
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: can take this off the screen for a second, Rob,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: as I read this.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 9: So.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Warren DeBries traveled to Dallas on November 23, 1963, the
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: day after the assassination. That would have been the Friday,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: or Saturday, I'm sorry. This was a temporary assignment, temporary
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: in quotations here, air quotes, from the New Orleans FBI
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: office to assist with the investigation and help compile an
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: early major report. Official records, including his personal FBI files
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: reviewed by the HSEA, state he was in Dallas from
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: November 23, 1963 until about January 24, 1964. That would
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: be two months, which is somewhat of a lengthy assignment,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: I guess. FBI documents he authorized... addressed to the Dallas
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: special agent in charge, appear as early as November 23rd, 63,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: confirming his presence activity there that day. Contemporary accounts and
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: his later statement describe the transfer as occurring following or
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: right after the assassination for investigative support. Um, Warren Debris
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: stayed in Dallas for, like I said, two months and, uh,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: Let's go to this.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 5: It was more than two months.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't able to track down exactly when he left.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 5: I sent you the document of when he left.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. It might be in my PowerPoint here. We'll see.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: You can put that back up.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 5: If not, I have the document here.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, then we can put it up. after this. So,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: this is a report. This is by Special Agent Manning C. Clements,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: but on the 23rd, which of course is on Saturday,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: Omaha Teletype to Bureau and Dallas. regarding Clarence Vernon Bailey, Jr., suspect. Okay,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: so Oswalt's already in custody by then, of course. On
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: the Saturday, November 23rd, Dr. Clarence Vernon Bailey, Sr., of Fountainhead, Dallas,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: advised Special Agent Manning Clements and Warren DeBruys, advised both
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: these agents, that his son, Clarence, had committed an unlife...
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: How do you say it? Unlifing of himself at the
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: Lawrence Hotel. Unaliving. Yes, unaliving. There you go. On September 1863.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: So why exactly was Warren DeBreeze talking to this Scafusa
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: Bailey about his son?
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 11: I don't know.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: But he was in Dallas that day doing whatever. On
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: the 24th, you have special... This is from Warren DeBries
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: to Special Agent-in-Charge Dallas. FBI document. Narrow number on the
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: top left here. Special agents. I'm not even going to
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: try to read that. Edwin Kukendall. Kukendall, there you go.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: Interviewed Claude Nattenmeyer. who advised he resided at that address
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: for more than seven years. He stated he was born
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: in Ohio, related on the day of the assassination of
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy that in that precise moment of his assassination,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: he was on his way home with his wife and
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: had no knowledge whatsoever of any pertinent information regarding President
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: Kennedy's assassination. He related he is not a member of
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: any type of organization only the NRA, National Rifle Association,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: which he joined in 1936 as a life member. So, again,
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: this is Debris on Sunday, right, the day Oswald was killed.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know why they interviewed this guy. I don't
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: know much about him at all. I don't know anything
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: about him other than maybe the 5'7.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 5: He has an impaired left arm as a result of
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 5: a crushed collarbone.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: Wears glasses.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 5: And shoulder blade at the time of birth. This guy's deformed,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 5: but he's a suspect. Okay.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: And this is what DeBruys is doing here on Sunday,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: which is weird. I mean, maybe he's following up on
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: a lead.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: But, again, documentary evidence. He was there on the 23rd,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: as I went a couple slides ago. He was there
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: on the 24th, and on the 25th, from Mr. DeBruys
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: to the Special Agent in Charge Dallas, he was at
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: the Dallas Police Department on 11-25, which of course would
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: have been that Monday following Lee Harvey Oswald's murder, examining
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: various items obtained by the Dallas Police by search warrant
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: from room of Lee Harvey Oswald on North Beckley Street,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: as well as from the residence of Mrs. Ruth Payne
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: in Irving, Texas. Approximately 30 minutes after I commenced examining,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: I believe this is his kind of summary. Approximately 30
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: minutes after I commenced examining this material, an agent from
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: the Secret Service, who was not immediately introduced to me,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: as such, but who commenced to examine the same material.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: We were both so occupied that we did not speak
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: to one another, except to say hello, until someone from
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: the police department introduced me to a Mr. Stewart, identifying
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: him as a Secret Service agent. Since we were both
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: extremely occupied, busy, I'm sorry, I got a little cut off.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: And the volume of material to be checked, we did not...
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: exchange any conversation at all.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: Stewart left the police department, at which time he had
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: indicated he had been happy to have met me. I
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: can positively state that I did not knowingly speak to
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: any other Secret Service agent... since my arrival in Dallas
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: and under no circumstances did I mention anything to anyone
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: at the Dallas police department to the effect that Oswald
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: previously had been contacted by two subversive agents and of
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: course would not have been able to have made such
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: a statement as I was not cognizant of any such event.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: So again, you kind of see early on like the
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: way he kind of walks around his, uh, his statements. Uh,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: Now let's go to New Year's Eve. Diligent guy, Rob.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: He's working on New Year's Eve.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 5: He doesn't need to party.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: No. Well, allegedly. Subject, fair play for Cuba. New Orleans division. Cuba. Cuba. Report.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: Rereport from Special Agent Warren DeBreeze. on 10-25-63 in New Orleans. Again,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: this is the one I first showed, right, when he
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: talked about Oswald and the leaflets. Obviously, he had knowledge
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: of Oswald pre-assassination. I don't think that's up for debate.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: It is requested that this case be reassigned inasmuch as
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: the agent to whom the case is assigned at present
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: will be absent from the New Orleans office on special
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: assignment at Dallas for an indefinite period. That would be DeBruys.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: Set forth below for the information of the agent to
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: whom this case is reassigned are the results of contacts
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: made in this matter subsequent to submission of reference report. So,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: they're kind of extending his stay in in Dallas at
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: the end of the year right like a month and
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: a couple weeks after the assassination Cuban sources refer to
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: this in the body are A bunch of four skafoozas. One,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: Jesse Corr, Public Relations, International Trademark. Orlando Piedra. Did you
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: talk about him earlier?
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 5: I did.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: Roberto Fernandez de Castro. No relation, allegedly. One copy of
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: this report is being furnished to the Dallas Division for
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: information as much... that office is presently conducting inquiries to
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: locate Lee Harvey Oswald, subject of a separate investigation. So
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: they're now going back to the 25th report. Dallas file number, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: And if Oswald has relocated in the Dallas territory, it
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: is possible he may inaugurate a FPCC branch in that area.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: One copy being furnished to... INS, New Orleans, in view
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: of the interest of that agency and pro-Castro organizations of
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: this type. The following sources were contacted, and again, this
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: is written by DeBruys, obviously had Many connections, and I'm
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: just going to read the dates here. 10-29-63, 11-5, 11-12, 11-20, 11-22nd,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: and 11... November 22nd, 63. So, he obviously had a
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: lot of informants, debris, within the Cuban community. Well, if
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: I was a betting man, I would say.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 5: NO-1213-S... It was probably Orestes Pena. But that's just a guess.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: You might be right. I do not know. So, I
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: think this is... I forgot to get the cover of it.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: The summary... Let's just read it and figure it out.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: I mentioned that within a few days after my arrival
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: in Dallas... to take part in the investigation of the
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: assassination of President Kennedy. After having worked since approximately 6 a.m.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: or 7 a.m., I was told about 5 p.m. on
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: the afternoon of the 22nd that the President wanted a
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: report on Lee Harvey Oswald. I remained on duty without
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: sleep from 5 p.m. until the next morning, about 9-10 a.m.,
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: during which time I supervised the compilation of a report
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: on the background of Lee Harvey Oswald. This required assembling
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: of the results of investigations from not only the Dallas office,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: but a number of other field officers' offices, including legal
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: attache offices of the FBI overseas. This extensive task was
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: performed under pressure approximately between the hours of 5 and
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: 8 a.m. of the following morning.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: Again, this is Commission Document 75, folks, if you want
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 5: to look it up.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yes, that's what it is.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 7: Thank you.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: The net result was a report of over 800 pages.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: This required the assembling of each investigative interview and report
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: under proper headings as well as an understanding of those
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: contents in order to prepare... a synopsis, and provide accurate
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: data for the cover and administrative pages of that report.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: As an example of the massive nature of the task involved,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: I mentioned that the mere numbering of the pages after
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: the report was assembled in order to be done accurately
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: and uniformly took more than an hour. In summary, I
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: tried to impress the greater part of another hour I
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: tried to impress the committee that here was a report
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: of more than 800 pages compiled in a sense overnight
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: by agents who had not slept since approximately 6 a.m.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: the day before. So he's kind of claiming I was tired, overworked.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 5: Real quick, Joe.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 5: Pete just wants to know what ISR Cuba means. It
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 5: means internal security regarding Cuba. It's just a classification that
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 5: they tended to put on documents pertaining to the assassination
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 5: of Kennedy or Oswald specifically, just so that the FBI
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 5: internally was aware of what this report was regarding.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: Kind of like a filing type of header, if you will.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 5: So....
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: The effort included approximately 20 agents and a large number
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: of stenographers and clerks, and that report will have to
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: stand the scrutiny for the rest of history as to
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: accuracy scrutiny by critics who will have no mercy and
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: no sensitivity as to the conditions of stress and speed
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: under which it was performed.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 5: No small feat to put together an 800-page report overnight.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 5: Which is pretty impressive.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't doubt him on that. I also made
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: mention during the testimony of another instance where I spent
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: approximately 38 hours without sleep carrying our responsibilities after the assassination.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: I narrated to them that the Bureau headquarters had wanted
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: the property of Oswald that had been seized by the
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: DPD cataloged and sent to Bureau headquarters. Again, This request,
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: which required all the technicalities of preserving evidence be adhered to,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: came into the late afternoon. It seems that it must
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: have been about 3 p.m. that I arrived at the
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Dallas Police Department. Right, so I guess he's saying he
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: stayed up all night. He left at around, what, like 8,
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: 9 a.m. and got to Dallas Police Department about 3 p.m.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: that Saturday. The 23rd?
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and they put him in charge of the transfer
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 5: of all the evidence from the Dallas Police Department to
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: the Bureau. Which is a little sus.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: Right, because you have FBI agents in Dallas, many of
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: them at that point.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: So, like, why bring this skafooza over from New Orleans
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: on 36 hours, no sleep, to do it? 38.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 5: Possibly because DeBruys was looking for something specific, you know,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 5: or maybe they didn't want certain things to, you know,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know either.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 5: It's interesting.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: The atmosphere at the police department was humming as it
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: was the scene of activity that hardly made it conductive
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: to an analytical survey of Oswald's property. I might add
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: that included in Oswald's property seized by the police department
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: were a number of items belonging to the Payans that
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: had been commingled with Oswald's property. So now he's saying, like,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: all the evidence was kind of commingled, right? And that
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: it was hard for me to figure out which came
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: from which, I think is what's happening here. Included in
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: several cartons among his possessions were a diary involving his
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: activities in Russia, an address book, which Rob, we might
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: have a future show on, a little tease, allegedly, and
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: numerous photographs, that's all I'm going to say about that,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: numerous photographs and a multitude of other things. In fact,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: the items were so numerous that I was able to
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: convince the property custodian a Dallas police captain, that logic
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: would dictate it prudent for us to carry the material
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: to the FBI office where I could find a quiet
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: room to compile an inventory.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 5: Real quick, Joe. Uncle Dave comes through. Minox cameras become
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 5: light meters, etc. Yeah. Certain things that are a little
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 5: sus tend to disappear. Right.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, let's just think of this logistically. And again,
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: I'm completely spitballing and speculating here. You have all of
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: Oswald's shit in the DPD.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: DeBruys wants to take it to a, quote, quiet area.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 5: To compile the list.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: Right, so he could work in peace.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, away from prying eyes.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: That's a problem to me.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And then, like I said, when they're done using
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 5: him in Dallas, they ship his ass to Puerto Rico. Right.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 5: Out of the country.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 5: Away from the Warren Commission.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: Yes. Where he could find a quiet room, he agreed,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: and it was not until very late in the afternoon
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: that he and I actually began the laborious task of
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: cataloging each and every item contained in those boxes. It
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: was not until near midnight, so here we go with
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: the 38 hours again, I was able to give the
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: hard-working and patient police captain a complete inventory and receipt
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: for the property, which he had turned over to the FBI.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: At that point, it became incumbent on me to initial
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: each item and photograph each item to ensure the preservation
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: of evidence contained among the various articles in Oswald's property.
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: As this process was done in a careful and thorough manner,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: the job was not complete at 8 a.m. the next morning.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: I was then instructed by the inspector in charge to
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: accompany the material and To Washington, D.C. So now he's
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: going to Washington, allegedly.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 5: Well, you always hear about Vincent Drain taking the shit
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 5: to D.C., but you never hear about Debris. Right.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: But this is from Debris.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: Which is a problem.
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, considering all the shit that he was doing this weekend,
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 5: not only what you were talking about here. Stuff we're
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 5: going to get into part two that he was alleged
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 5: to have accomplished on the 23rd as well. Such as,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 5: you know, help track down the whole Klein's, you know,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 5: where the rifle was purchased from. I mean, all kinds
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 5: of shit. This dude was like, had his finger in
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 5: everything apparently.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, didn't we have that document? Let
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: me go back here.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 5: And he was going out and interviewing people. Random people
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 5: in Dallas about stuff.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just going, yeah.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 5: That weekend.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: For sure. But he was also allegedly at the Dallas
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: PD on 11-25-63 examining various items obtained by the Dallas PD.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: So how could, how does that line up?
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know either.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 5: I mean, was the stuff already sent back to Dallas
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 5: by the 25th?
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: What, did he take a private jet to Washington, D.C.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: and was back the next day?
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they did ship it on a fucking jet to D.C.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 5: and back.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but was he on it?
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 5: I thought they had it.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: But was he on it, and did he come back
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: to be present for another search on the 25th?
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 5: Dude, who knows?
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: That's what is confusing me here. I'm not exactly sure.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not insinuating everything. I'm just saying a lot of
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: this doesn't make sense. It was an effort to demonstrate
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: that things handled after the assassination at the demand of
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: the presidency or some other high authority in the United
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: States were performed under conditions of unusual stress. So again, translation,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: that's an excuse.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 5: Well, no, he's also saying that he's a fucking superman.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 5: How easy it is for a critic who can, with
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 5: unlimited time and an atmosphere of calm and extended analysis,
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 5: scrutinize every jot and tittle of intense, accelerated investigation effort,
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 5: as well as report writing performed with deliberate speed under stress,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 5: yet with great concern for accuracy as well as detail.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 5: Like he's saying how great he fucking is. Right. He
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 5: accomplished all this shit by staying up for like four
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 5: days straight. you know, with no sleep, but he, you know,
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 5: he's fucking Superman.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 5: And people are criticizing him. You know, he's saying, well,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 5: you do it then asshole.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: Um, so there is, like I mentioned before, 155. I
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: could be off by a few pages.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 5: And we're only going to go through 112 of them tonight.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: No, maybe we're going to save a couple of them
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: for members only. I, uh, I didn't have time. Uh,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: I was on 38 hours of no sleep, Rob. I
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: couldn't clip them all. But, um, interestingly enough, they don't
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: really touch on in this HFCA testimony, uh, exactly how
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: long he was in Dallas. Um, And this is my
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: last slide here. This is an interview War Debris did with.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 5: Oh, boy. All right, go ahead.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: Do you know about this?
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 5: I did not know about this. I know about the
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 5: exact opposite of this, actually. But go ahead.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. And one of the guys' name
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: is Peter Scott. Is that Peter Dalescott?
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 5: Maybe.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know either.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 5: No, no.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: Again, I just clicked one page from this. No, I
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: don't think I did. I think when I went there,
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: Hostie was... Oh, so they're asking, did you work with
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: Special Agent Hostie in Dallas? Of course, Hostie also had some.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: Contact let's say with oswald and and marina right so
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't you if you brought you're bringing over debris.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 5: Well them up we have direct corroboration that they did
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 5: in fact work together but we'll get to that in
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 5: part two members only next.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: Week okay well debris says no no i don't think
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: i did i think when i went there hostie was.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 5: Just one among that's a lie.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: Perhaps a hundred or so agents.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 5: That's a bold-faced lie coming right out of Warren DeBreeze's mouth.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: Well, again, it's a, I guess, a radio interview, so
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: he's not, like, under oath or anything or something, a document.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but still, I mean.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: It's a lie.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 5: Why wouldn't you just admit it? It's a fucking lie.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: You would think they would. But he also was working
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: Cuban cases, Peter Scott says. I don't know if it's
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: Peter Dale Scott.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: He may have been, but he was in Dallas.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 5: So were you born?
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: Surely you were brought from New Orleans because of the
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: special knowledge of the Oswald case. A good question. Well,
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: I think it was an impromptu decision on the part
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: of the special agent in charge on Friday afternoon. I'm
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: guessing he means New Orleans because he had They had
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: to send a breeze there. It could have been Dallas.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: If I recall correctly, Dallas needed two, three, or four men,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: and I happened to be right in front of them,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: front of him at the time.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 5: Yet there's no other FBI agents available any closer to
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 5: Dallas than New Orleans. My ass.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: And he said literally two answers up, there was a
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: hundred or so agents.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 5: No, but yeah. But he said they needed two, three,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 5: or four more guys, apparently. And I happened to be
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 5: right in front of him at the time.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: Right. That's a problem.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 5: Like there wasn't any FBI agents in Houston or Galveston
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 5: or any place closer than New Orleans, which, by the way,
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 5: was what, a seven-hour drive?
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 5: I mean, come on, man.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: Hostie dealt, this is Peter Scott, dealt with him in
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: Fort Worth. Tech Dallas, you dealt with him here. There's
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: no relation between agents on the same file? No. He
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: would have gotten copies of any files or any reports
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: I would have written if he did handle the subject
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: matter case on Oswalt alone where Oswalt was subject rather
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: than the FPCC that he would have gotten whatever case
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: was written by the other agent. So you could see
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: how much he is kind of deflecting.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 5: Just a little bit, I would say.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: Just a little bit.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 5: And outright lying. Again, I've got documentation that he was,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 5: in fact, and this comes straight from Shanklin, out of
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: Shanklin's mouth, teamed up with Hostie, On the Oswald Squad,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 5: which we'll get more into, like I said, on Members Only.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 5: We don't have time here tonight, but it's a fascinating
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 5: story how they split up these FBI guys in Dallas.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. And like Devil's Advocate, I can see why...
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: if you have an FBI agent in New Orleans right
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: like debris you might want to bring him for like
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: some consultation or to help out or something like that
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: but dude stayed there for months lied about a certain
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: amount of things, was....
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 5: He was in Dallas for six months, folks. He interviewed
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 5: his last person in Dallas in June of 64. Before
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 5: he went back to New Orleans and then was shortly
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 5: sent to Puerto Rico.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 5: So, six months.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you could think of that as
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: a temporary assignment. I wouldn't. I've been on sales jobs
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: for six months. Definitely didn't feel temporary to me.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 5: No, I mean, you're leaving your brick-and-mortar house and family
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 5: back in New Orleans because Hoover's going to get your
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 5: ass to Dallas. And you're staying here until we tell
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 5: you you're done.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: Not to mention any other operations or, you know, details
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: you're working on in New Orleans.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 5: Well, that guy reassigned to other agents in New Orleans, remember?
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 5: So they knew they were going to have his ass
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 5: in Dallas for a while.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 7: Why?
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 5: He interviewed a lot of important witnesses, which we'll get
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 5: into more on part two as well. Some very sus
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 5: Oswald witnesses. So.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 5: Again, a lot more to come on Debris. We are
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 5: just scratching the surface.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 5: On him. We're just picking the scab. We ain't tore
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 5: it off yet, but we're picking at it. We're picking
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 5: at it. We're picking at it.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're, we're going to have a banger, another banger, um,
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: members only on this for sure, but I'm sure we
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: could even do a part three if we wanted to.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 5: Easy, easy now, easy.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: No, I'm saying if we wanted to.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Um, there's a lot
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 5: here to unpack.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is exactly.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 5: And what does it mean? I mean, I smell a
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 5: coverup is what I'm smelling. I don't know that. I mean,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 5: you can take the allegations of where S Pena and
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 5: whatever value you want, you want them. I mean, we
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 5: have an eyewitness who's basically stating, look, I seen him
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 5: eating with the breeze. He used to hang out over
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 5: there with all the minus guys. I saw him meeting
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 5: at least 10 or more times with him. And you
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 5: saw the breweries on video. You saw how he answered questions.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 5: You saw his demeanor. Like, this is below me. I
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 5: don't need to answer all this bullshit. You know what
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 5: I mean? Smirking with his answers. Hesitating. And contrast that
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 5: to William Walter. Contrast that to Oris Pena, who was...
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 5: It wasn't no laughing matter. They were dead serious about
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 5: what they were talking about. So, very interesting stuff.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 4: Uh-oh.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 5: Joe disappeared again. But, again, next week will be open
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 5: for all levels of channel members. Including spooks. Just like
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 5: it was this past Wednesday. So make sure you come
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 5: back next Wednesday... If you are a channel member and
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 5: check it out, you can also sign up to be
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 5: a channel member for zero dollars for the first month.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 5: And if you don't like it, don't stay. And if
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 5: you do, hang around. We do a show live every
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 5: Wednesday night, every week. It is a part two to
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 5: the Friday show that we do here. And we can
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 5: do things on Wednesday night that we can't do here.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 5: Such as podcast news.
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 5: We have not done yet.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or else the part one would be like four
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: hours long. Or maybe five.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we're not like The Enduring Secret where
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 5: we put out a 20-minute clip of something and call
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 5: it in an episode, episode one. You know, we don't
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 5: have 27 episodes on Warren DeBreeze. You know, we try
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 5: to get it all done in one episode. big, long-ass episode,
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 5: but we pack with information. We're so glad you were here,
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 5: and we love you guys. Joe, grab the damn dog.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 5: Let's get the hell out of there. Let's start the
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 5: weekend off right.
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 5: And it was great seeing you guys in here this
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 5: evening and hanging out again. Hit the like button on
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 5: your way out the door. Hype this thing once it
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 5: becomes a video. And Come back for Members Only Part 2.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 5: Be on the lookout for a book review coming up
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 5: and a random research ramblings with Rob. Those two things
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 5: have been skyrocketing in views, so we appreciate it. And
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 5: there's Ruby. Hey, Rubes. Hey, Ruby. All right, Dino, get
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 5: your ass in here. Let's get out of here, folks.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 5: Thank you for watching the show. Thank you for supporting
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 5: the show. We love you guys. It's always awesome. Thank you,
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 5: thank you, thank you.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 12: Again, Dino, hey, boy, you still owe me $ 25.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 5: Some 25 big ones. I'm getting paid, Mr.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: Andrews.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 5: Ciao, Tiny.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 11: Hope you're feeling better. Ciao, Bella. Thank you, Paula.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Southwest. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Uncle Dave.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 5: Always very knowledgeable. It's good having smarter people than us
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 5: in the chat.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 5: All right, that's it for us, dummies. We'll see you
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 5: next Wednesday. We love you.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: Peace.