Latest / Step Wise / Jordyn Wieber, Amy Williams, Eric Larson, Tim Baldwin, and Rob Brown on What Leadersh*t Got Right, Got Wrong, and Still Needs to Say at 15

Transcript

Jordyn Wieber, Amy Williams, Eric Larson, Tim Baldwin, and Rob Brown on What Leadersh*t Got Right, Got Wrong, and Still Needs to Say at 15 · Step Wise

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_07: This month my book, Leadership, Rethinking the True Path to Great Leading, turns fifteen.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_07: I would like to be cute and say what do a private equity investor, a gold medal Olympian, a small business owner in Bozeman, Montana, a professor of leadership at USC, and a newly minted grad student from UCLA, who's got a master's in sports management, and who is one of the co-head coaches of the new women's flag football team there have in common.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_07: They've all read, digested, given me feedback on this book, and for that I'm really grateful.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_07: So I put them on a panel.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_07: Please enjoy my panel discussion of leadership, rethinking the true path to great leading at 15 years old.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_07: Welcome to our distinguished guest talking about leadership at 15.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_07: I'm going to ask our panelists to introduce themselves.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_07: I'm looking forward to kind of a rousing hour.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_07: This will be really a lot of fun.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_07: I personally uh wanted to know your answers to this question as I'm writing the next book, and it's about the turmoil today and how leaders need to address that, lean into it, and stuff.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_07: And I thought we've got this body of knowledge of people who have read the book, the first book, and um have a lot of insights.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_07: And so I'd love to learn from you all.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_07: So selfishly, this is a learning hour for me, and I really appreciate you guys taking your time.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_07: Jordan, would you start, please?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Jordan Weaver.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm an Olympic gold medalist from the 2012 London Games.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, since then, I have been coaching in NCAA athletics for the last 10 years, most recently as head coach of the University of Arkansas women's gymnastics team.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: My relationship to the book is that I've actually read it at two separate times.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: The first time when I was in college, actually as an intern for Foster and his company.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I read it again during my very first year as head coach at Arkansas when I felt like it was probably the most important time for me to read a book like this.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Really transformational in my thought process.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really fun to pick it up for the third time and kind of read my answers in all of the blanks that I wrote seven years ago.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was a lot of fun.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_07: Amy, would you take a moment?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yes, not an Olympian, um, former fashion designer.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Fashion designer who became a fashion academic, ran a program, and from that ended up looking at the space of leadership.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: So went into um the work on in the in-between of responsible leadership, sustainability, and gender equity.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: The first time I read the book was after I met Foster and Kathy at a dinner party and thought, I need to read this book.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: I need to know more about this human.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so I dug in, I was enthralled, and this is how I read a book.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's filled with notes and stickies, et cetera.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's been a joy reading it the second time.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_07: Excellent.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you, Amy.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_07: Eric, would you please go next?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I'm a private equity investor based in Chicago.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's been a very unpredicted career for me.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up on a farm.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_04: My parents were both teachers, so I learned about growing and continuous learning while I was still at home.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: Started my first job when I, or my first business when I was 20 years old, and then became an architect.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was what I thought I was going to be doing.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: Until my wife and I got married and moved to Chicago, and I couldn't get a job as an architect.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I had to clear my stream, so to speak.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: I pivoted into finance thinking that I was getting into a very analytical career.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: It turns out business is incredibly creative.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I've been very interested in the process of creating new visions for companies that uh that I've been involved with.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: And this book is it came along later in my career, but it's been very uh very helpful for me to put things in in context.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: My relationship with the book is a couple years ago we hired a former FMG leading young associate, Brian Dunlop, saw that I had a bunch of books on leadership in my on my bookshelf, and he said, Have you ever read this book?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Leadership.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: Brian and I went through every chapter.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: We met once a week, read the chapters, answered the questions, and then discussed them between the two of us.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_07: Eric, thank you.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_07: And thanks for participating.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Rob, would you go next?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my name is Rob.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: I am about to start my first year as an elementary school teacher.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I am one of the assistant coaches for UCLA's brand new uh women's flag football team, and I just finished my master's at UCLA in transformative coaching and leadership, which is how I met Foster.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was in Miss Bow's class, and we had an awesome guest speaker who did not talk about this amazing book at all.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he was very gracious with his time after class, spent an hour with me and one of my friends just chatting about life and leadership, and it was awesome.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to get into it.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_05: Excellent.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks, Rob.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_05: And Tim?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, my name is Tim.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'm a business owner here in Bozeman and a friend of Foster's.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_05: Like Eric, I also grew up on a farm uh in a very different part of the world, doing a very different thing now.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: Gonna be married in a couple weeks, so I'm very much looking forward to being a husband and just very fortunate to be a friend of Foster's.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_05: My relationship to the book, when I first met Foster, he gave me the book, and I think similar to Amy, I was just very impressed and taken back by him and said I gotta read this book as my business grew.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: I read it again later when a lot of leadership issues came up in my business in my life.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I didn't realize this till today, but I this is the number one gifted book for my podcast guests.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: I realized today that I gifted my book that I wrote my answers in.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: I have I have another one because I had a pile of them.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_05: So I may have to track down that book and trade it in.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_07: But here we are.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_07: That's great.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_07: I'd love to kind of jump in.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_07: You know, the book is oriented around an outdoor adventure between a wise man and a very confused guy that decides he's gonna go backpacking with a guy he just met for a week.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_07: Not too many people have asked me about the reality of that, but anyway.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_07: And it's oriented around seven tales.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_07: They um it's you know, fable-like and um tales to introduce various elements of awareness and presence and stuff like that.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_07: I'd love to hear from you guys, and it doesn't have to be in any particular order.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_07: What tales most resonated for you at the time you read it?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that the tale that resonated the most with me by far was the tale of this dream.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is this is one that I feel like is just the most relatable for people in any business, any walk of life.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it resonates uh in athletics in a huge way, but also it resonated for me in my leadership journey as a coach, too.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: So thinking about just all of the stuff that we have to clear out and address, like when you think about athletics and how how mental a sport is, like gymnastics.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: I always say it's like 70% mental, 30% physical.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And addressing that 70% was just such a key part of me reaching my goals in the sport and being able to harness the power of the mind and let go of self-doubt and how to harness my confidence in clearing out that stream.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say also when I started coaching, dealing with a lot of boulders in that stream that had to do with imposter syndrome and feeling like I wasn't ready or I wasn't old enough and just kind of letting that noise creep in.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, when you we helped me kind of work through that stuff in the early years of of my head coaching position, Foster, I think that was that was such a big deal for me.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really important to set that foundation for myself of how what does it look like for me to lead authentically?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I get rid of get rid of those limiting beliefs that were just in my way and and not allowing me to lead the people around me the most effectively?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, Jordan, thank you.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_07: And you know, it's interesting, you read it after a huge amount of success already, that you know, at least for that period of time, the stream had to be reasonably clear, I would bet, but you take on a new role, new life challenges and stuff like that, different boulders.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Can I tag team right off of that?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't mind.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I have these notes that say imposter monster, and you know, uh seeing the parallel of our situations.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, coming from the perspective of women in business, the business in the field that I came from is a feminized industry, or so everybody believes, but it is absolutely not at the leadership level.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's looking out, thinking that you're seeing this beautiful, clear stream and everything's gonna be easy and you're gonna splash across and there's not a problem, and not even recognizing when there is a boulder.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it was that stream story as well that was like, boy, yes, there are things that clog us, and sometimes we are not even in a position based upon how we've been trained, how we have been raised by in our societies, our communities, and our cultures to just literally not see what's in front of us causing us to trip and fall.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_05: Beautiful.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_05: I'm happy to go next.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's okay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Tim.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_05: For me, it's the the tales of the empty house.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_05: I've been very fortunate to to get to interview so many people over the years, and so many things are not what they seem.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_05: And that that story resonated more and more with me in time.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_05: You know, as I read reading it early on when I met you and then reading it again in the past year, and it parallels so much with things going on today.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_05: There's you know, there's so much divisiveness and so many assumptions about who people are.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: I've been very fortunate to get to really get to know people on a deeper level and see how similar we all are.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_05: And that that story has just always stuck with me as um something I experience all the time.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I've wondered given the increased noise and civil dis civil discourse in civil discourse today in today's world, and this whole judging thing is uh is so important for us today.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'll build off of what Tim just said that I had two that are that really resonated with me.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: One of them was the empty house.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: And very similarly, the risks of anchoring on first impressions really resonated with me.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: And leaders providing meaning uh and context, I think, is is an important part of what leaders do.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: The other one that resonated with me, maybe because I'm old, is the old bull.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: And the notion of leading with wisdom.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I actually have a little uh model that I use about subject matter expertise early in your career, and then the importance of developing wisdom and sharing that with people as you as you grow older.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_07: And you know, extra credit for anybody that can help me figure out a less misogynistic way to say that tale, old bull, young bull.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_07: There's gotta be a way.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_07: I've been challenged with that for 15 years, and I'm not gonna give up.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of to piggyback off that, with the tale of the old bull, as a younger person in the space, uh, I'm 23 and joining like the UCLA coaching staff for flag has some of the best coaches in the space, and it was like some of that imposter syndrome.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: My personal background is coaching like youth flag football, and just kind of you know, instead of being like, Oh, I have this new flashy title to just still kind of stay grounded and try to make those wiser decisions, even though I'm young.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a really big thing I loved in the book.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can be the old bull, like it doesn't, it's more about experience than it is age, but there are definitely times where the young bull wants to come out too, and I think finding that balance for me has been very impactful.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_07: What tales didn't resonate, or what do you disagree with?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_07: What parts would you change if you could?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Dear Foster.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what I think.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, I I think the book landed well, and I think I and I know after I read it the first time I said, oh my, this just reminds me of the Lencioni book, and it it's such a great set of stories.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I so appreciated the fact that often when you spoke about the leaders that you were giving tales about, you used the word G on that dot dot dot.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: The reality is that women don't are not seen as leaders, they don't carry the same numbers of leadership and they are not in the same places of leadership in the same amounts.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: If we've only got 11% of you know, Fortune 500 companies, dot, dot, dot, if if the women leaders are leading, coaching women's teams, but not you know, crossing over into men's, et cetera, et cetera.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So what I would love is a dive into how do we bring a change of that?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: How do we truly make there be a leveled playing field for your daughters, your granddaughters, my daughters, you know, everybody that Jordan is coaching, everybody that Rob is coaching, et cetera.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: How can we truly make that when we have so many societal and cultural boulders in our way for that?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: I love this, I love this idea.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: So if I would change something, first of all, I thought the wise guy was kind of was kind of a know-it all.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe if snarky had tell them a woman, it would be a different story.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe if you could change one thing, it would be to tell it from the perspective of a of a woman.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: I've been in an industry that is a just a it's a it's a fraternity, it's a boys' club.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: I've done my best throughout my 41 years to bring women into it, but they it just has not worked effectively across the whole across the whole industry.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I think having a perspective of a woman leading a bunch of people, including boys and men, that would be that'd be a good thing to change.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_07: And she probably wouldn't be a know-it-all like this guy was well, you know, it's interesting, given the the heavy emphasis and focus on EQ, you know, this is about kind of emotional awareness and emotional groundedness.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_07: And we talk about that is a domain and conversation easier for many women leaders than it is for many men leaders.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_07: Amy, your point resonates really well.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_07: Like, why wouldn't we look to elevate more women into leadership positions?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_07: I wrote this book.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_07: I wanted to not write it for corporate leaders, I wanted to write for mothers and you know, church leaders and soccer coaches, and all of that, I didn't want to use a lot of corporate speak.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_07: And interestingly, in my career, I'll bet you more than 50% of the leaders that I coached were women.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_07: I'll bet you.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_07: My practice is a little bit different that way.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_07: And because we talk in this kind of language, we can we can do this.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_07: I totally support that goal, uh, Amy.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_07: I think it makes a lot of sense to me.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was actually the exact same thought that I had would be one change is hearing it from a from a woman's perspective.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's really crazy.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: We were all kind of on the same page there, but I had wondered what symbols would be different, um, like what would come up, you know, from a woman's brain differently than than the male, the male wise mentor.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I will write that book with either of or both of you if you're interested.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_07: Let's do it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_07: Anything else on um tales that resonated less or anything you change about what's in the first book?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, I wouldn't say change, but just something to add on.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: You spoke on how like sometimes leadership can be lonely, and something we talked about in our program a lot was how to build, like you talked about gaining the trust of your leaders or of your followers, building that trust for them is very important.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when if leadership is lonely and you can't do it alone, like Jordan, you've had to build a coaching staff, and I would just like to know how you can also build a coaching staff because that's something I would like to do as a head coach and know how you're doing it right.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to delegate and to not be lonely, but at the end of the day, as the head coach, you have everything on your shoulders, and what is a healthy way to do that?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't have those answers, Jordan.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you do, yes, right, Foster.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, no, that's that's a great point.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_07: Today's world is very different than the environments that we found ourselves in 15 years ago, or 17 years ago when I started writing the book.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_07: For example, let's just take college athletics.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_07: Think about where college athletics was 17 years ago.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_07: You know, there was no house decision, there was no NIL, there was no portal.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_07: Money in athletics was not the same.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_07: Um, TV rights were very different.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_07: We've got government now intervening in with the NCAA.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_07: We got like this is nuts.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_07: But we're different now.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_07: We've got five generations in the workforce that we didn't necessarily have before.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_07: Maybe we had four, but our younger generations have greater agency, maybe spurred on by COVID and hybrid workforces and all that.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_07: So they've got a bigger voice.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_07: It's a 24-7 news cycle.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_07: They get bombarded algorithmically with information that floods their brain and rewires their brains.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_07: Meanwhile, athletics isn't the only one.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_07: Businesses are going through massive disruption and dislocation.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_07: Are the tales in there about clearing stream and about presence and about judgment and about source?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are those still relevant or are those just kind of wishy-washy things as a young person being flooded with all that information, like you said, like all of that noise?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's so important to really like focus on clearing your stream and keeping it clear.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kids that I've coached in the flag football world and in youth sports, like college sports is crazy as well.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, kids are dropping out of sport because they feel like they have to compete with all these people they see online and boost their resume.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of doing a sport, they're doing another volunteer camp or they're doing you know this and that.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there are so many great lessons from sports and athletics that do correlate with life.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like clearing the stream and kind of understanding how to um unplug and disconnect from that constant flow of information coming towards you.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, Jordan, I'd be interested in your reaction to that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: The thing that's popping in my brain as you were talking was um I constantly felt the last 10 years, coaching and athletics, this pull between um needing to adapt to like this changing world and how things are just different.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: The generation that is coming through college is just different and they didn't grow up the same thing that we did.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: They have different pressures, they have different anxieties, but at the same time, there's these certain things and core values that like I felt responsible for maintaining and teaching them the importance of human connection.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that was a big one for me.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're in this digital age, we've got AI kind of taking over all of our worlds now.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: But everybody still wants and needs human connection.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was always challenging trying to find that balance between how do we adapt to the way they learn, the way they think, what they're used to, but also stay true to the things that we know really matter.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what's what tale it would be, maybe maybe the the empty house tale, but giving space for people to hear, people to be heard.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I think at the end of the day, everybody just wants and needs that human connection.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: We need to figure out a way to create space for that um and still lead with empathy and non-judgment and all those types of things.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_07: That's excellent.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_07: And I want to put a pin there and come back to it because there's a there's a point that I'm struggling with, and I'd love your your thoughts on it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_05: Others?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_05: I'm thinking too, Foster, with the one of my favorite things about the book is at the end of every chapter, the opportunity to write and apply some of it to my own life.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_05: In my in current time today, I find myself just bombarded with the amount of information, decisions to make, you know, podcast, media, the whole thing, and this this simple act of writing and and doing that it's you know, it gets my body moving and actually kind of getting me out of my head and a little more into my body to actually kind of feel the work right down.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I think I think that's even more valuable today than it was then because there's not a lack of information, but the actual embodiment to some extent is where I feel a big disconnect sometimes.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_07: The tone that I'm trying to take is come sit with me.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_07: Let's sit together and talk.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_07: And it's safe and it's comfortable and it's deep, and it, you know, we can now discover stuff.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_07: We're not up here, but we are here and we are connected.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_07: You know, that's feedback I've gotten from this book, and it's feedback I've gotten from my career.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_07: It's like having a conversation is I won't say comfortable necessarily, because I could ask some really hard questions, but it's safe and it's um expansive and that kind of stuff.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_07: And I hadn't thought about should I have questions at the end of each chapter, explore because it's all you know, this is self-journey and leadership.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_07: Should I have questions?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_07: And that really gives me a lot of a lot of good insight.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Foster, yeah, I'm gonna riff a little bit off of that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think that the the question piece is really important, then the conversation piece is very interesting with students today.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if we're looking at you know what Rob and what um Jordan are talking about and how it goes forward in you know, with my master's students, I'm still finding them to be very quiet.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: That they are trying to be perfect in their responses often.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, when I'll prompt them and then try to wait for the an appropriate amount of Time to get a response when I still only have one hour to get all of the content delivered.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite interesting.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: They're uncomfortable with it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Certainly in week one, week two, they're a little bit more apt to engage.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: And usually by week four, everybody is talking.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that offer to please come sit with me and share your thoughts because leadership is lonely.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm setting them out supposedly on this path to become a leader, I'm saying to them, it's hard work, it's lonely work.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And in sustainability, it needs to be collaborative work.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: You need to find your allies, you know, and work together.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you need to talk, you need to share, and you need to listen.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: That connection, I guess, the old bull, the heads, the hands, the heart, and the spirit piece bringing the human into the conversation and allowing them to sit with themselves is important.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: This stepwise episode is proudly sponsored by Mountain Mule.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: Our goal is to make sure your experience in Montana is unlike anything else.
• 23:12
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• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: Whether you're traveling to or from Bozeman, have a private event, or want a once-in-a-lifetime tour experience, we'd love to get you there.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_05: Book at Mountain Mule.com and use code Stepwise.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_07: Most high performers don't need more ambition or vision.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_07: They need better support infrastructure and daily practices to hold it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_07: Wholeness at work offers leaders real tools for meaningful growth, lifelong impact, and sustained performance.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_07: Explore our holistic tools, insights, and practices for working in a way that actually feels like you.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_07: Visit our wholeness at work.com.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_07: What is a story that you can tell about one of these concepts and a difference it made for you or one of your people?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_05: I got one I can think of.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_05: There was a question to one of these questions.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_05: You know, what's a and it it might be a bit clearing the stream, what's a simple thing you can do to to come back to the moment to be present?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_05: Immediately after reading that, I said, you know what I can do?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_05: My this little uh stopwatch that I wear will beep every every hour.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_05: I hear that beep to this day and it it brings me back.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_05: As soon as I hopped on this call, it was one o'clock and I heard it beep, and I smiled.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_05: I was just getting on here.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's been invaluable.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_05: I have to turn it off sometimes at night because it's too much, but that's that simple thing has, you know, in so many conversations and situations in my personal and professional life, it it brings me back in that just remembering, you know, I'm right here, this person's here.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_05: Let's let me hear them and let me hear myself.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_07: You know, Tim, one of the things that I think makes your podcast so special is your ability to be present with your guests.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_07: You savor answers.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_07: People will say stuff, and man, you're you're about that answer, and you ask wonderful follow-ups, and whatever you're doing to stay present or be present, it's working.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_07: Reading books like this.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: Way to draw a plug out there, Foster.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_07: I'm telling you, yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_07: Mountain Mule Media, great podcast.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_07: Others, any stories you can tell about where one of these tales made a difference for you or anybody you were leading?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's the tale of the trail where they get to a place where the trail isn't there anymore.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: The message from the wise man is the leader must go first.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're starting a business, the leader must go first.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_04: And that's how you create followers.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: There's a risk in that because it might not work out, but you still have to you have to lead with action, not words.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_07: Leaders, you must be the change you wish to see in the world, you know, and that's all about going first and setting the example, leading by example, but also leading with good direction.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'll share a story.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm sure it's this way in other sports, but in gymnastics, we have a very active online social media presence with fans and um people that love the sport, also people that just have, you know, lots of things to say about athletes and coaches and this, that, and the other.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, I hit a point where I caught myself after every single meet, I would get on the bus and immediately and I would read, like whether it was a good meet or a bad meet, I would sort of read what what people were saying about the team, about me, and I care what people think in a huge way.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so whenever I get negative feedback, obviously that hits me really hard, but also I seek out the positive feedback.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, please, if we had a good meet, I want to read about it, I want to know what people are saying.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started noticing um just this habit that like I would, I would, even when we'd have a great meet, I would like crave what people were saying, um, to the point where I felt like it was really affecting my leadership in the sense that I was almost creating different stories in my mind of things that weren't actually true to what was happening, um, whether that be positive or negative.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so after a few months of really like kind of questioning whether or not this was the healthy thing for me to do, I finally just decided that, okay, at the start of every season, I'm just gonna delete social media and I'm not going to read it because even the good stuff probably isn't good for me.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also realized that reading the negative stuff about other teams was also affecting me a certain way.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was just kind of filling my brain with this noise that I had to find a way to block out.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so that kind of turned into a really good talking point with a lot of the athletes that I was coaching.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because once I did it and I sort of modeled it, um, then I could speak to it when they were dealing with these pressures because that's obviously something that young people deal with today, especially student athletes.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Their lives are on display for everyone to have a comment about.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would basically tell them even the most confident person can read something negative about themselves and have a really hard time not letting it get to them.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: That was a huge thing for me.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that really has to do with the tale of the storm, and I thought that was a great way for me to both experience it and model it myself, but then be able to speak to it with the athletes I was leading as well.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_07: You know, the tale of the storm um really took place.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_07: I traveled with the UCLA gymnastics team to University of Utah and um saw their meet in the Huntsman Center, which is a pit of hell of about I don't Jordan knows what I'm talking about.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_07: It's a round arena.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_07: The seats go right up to the floor, and I mean the vault ramp is here, and the seats are here, and there's no sideline, so to speak.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_07: When UCLA shows up at Utah, fierce rivals, the Utah fans would wear all black.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_07: It would be a blackout night, and they would say the nastiest things about these collegiate athletes and their mothers and their parents and their looks and their uniforms and their leotards.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_07: And I walked down to there thinking, how can you deal with this flood of noise?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_07: It it is a storm, it's like a massive storm overhead.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_07: And that's how that whole metaphor happened.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_07: It happened at the University of Utah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, I mean, that's like every arena in the SEC, I will say.
• 29:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_07: Tim talked about this practice that he built into his life about the uh reminder of uh uh of presence.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_07: Have there been any uh insights you've turned into practices that have helped you that have served you in your life?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'll jump in.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Amy Okay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Revisiting and re-grounding with values.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: I used to tell my design students to trust their gut and to jump off the cliff and build their bungee cord on the way down, which, you know, but you know, yeah, they were design students, they could do it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the idea was, you know, take away all of the rules that you may have witnessed of what a garment is supposed to look like or what a clothing empire is supposed to be, and try to build what is coming from your why, which is a lot to ask of an undergraduate.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Coming back to the why you do something is it should be grounded in your values, the things that you care about, the things that make you do what you want to do.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it's incredibly important in sustainability work when you build it with a trust aspect where you're going to be following a leader or being the leader yourself and being willing to step up and face the argument of profit bottom line over everything else.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite an interesting battle.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: So that that trail piece as you're describing when the path disappears and having to like lean into the hill and trust yourself that your foot is going to find some sort of solid-ish ground to then make the next step is you know complicated.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: So even with these new students that are focusing on sustainability and moving forward to change the world, I'm asking them to still build their own bungee cord as they're as they're jumping, trust themselves, trust their values, hopefully link arms with some other people so they can all fall together.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be fabulous.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_07: But based on the deep grinding of who they are and what they believe.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just to add on to that, uh the way I like in addition to values, I also think about like prioritizing things is really important.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And every like month or so, I'll just kind of look at my actions and do they align with both my priorities and my values.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So at least when I was a student, it was like one A was school and one B was coaching.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Being present kind of requires you to breathe, take in the moment, but also I believe that a lot of that too is being very intentional.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to reflect on okay, what have I done and what do I want to do moving forward?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And how can what I'm doing right now kind of add to that?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_07: Kind of a continuation of this theme.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_07: We're gonna do lightning round.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_07: You each have unilateral say to uh make sure that the next book covers one important topic for leaders today.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_07: What's that one topic?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: There's a resilience that um that comes from working together as a team.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: If if this is a lonely time, the combination of teamwork and resilience, building resilience from working together.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_05: I can do that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: You sure can.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_05: This will go off of what I was saying before, but I I'll either use the term somatic or embodied leadership.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_05: So from from head to here.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I would say answering the question of how can leadership growth be sustained?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think you know, a lot of times we go through these periods where we're really motivated to dig deeper and find ways to grow upon our leadership, but how do you sustain that for an extended period of time, or how do you keep that mindset of learning and growing and digging even deeper through different phases of life?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be really interesting to cover.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_07: Excellent.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_07: Amy, you look like you got one on the tip of your tongue.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_07: You too.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: I would love for you to incorporate the responsibility of doing no harm.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, I love that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Engaging leaders to figure out what that means to them and to own it in their actions.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_07: You know, in a very important way, that's the core concept of this next book, which is called honoring.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_07: We can honor the needs of the individual and honor the needs of the organization.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_07: And when there is a conflict, which there will occasionally be conflicts, we don't have to dishonor either one.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_07: So I love this notion about do no harm.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_07: That's really cool.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I would also say, um, like I feel a little older saying this, but just how AI is kind of transforming the world.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was very lucky at UCLA to have a really good mentor and professor who helped make sure that we're using AI as a tool rather than a crutch.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think how to balance that in leadership going forward.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is going to be a part of everyday life and how to kind of you know make sure people are still putting in the work, but also making it more efficient using AI.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, cool.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_07: Last question.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_07: And again, thank you for the generosity of your time.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_07: What's one question you have of me?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_07: Let's turn the tables here.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'll start.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because we've been talking a lot about um what would resonate with leaders today, I guess for you, Foster, what's something that maybe you believed about leadership 10 years ago that you believe to be no longer true today?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_07: There are a couple of things.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_07: One it gets back to what Rob was talking about, um, AI, and the importance of subject matter expertise.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_07: I think we still need subject matter experts, but they're really that's not the differentiating factor anymore in a world of AI.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_07: What we need are smart people that can think together.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_07: And I don't think I fully appreciated that 15 years ago.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_07: I also, there's one other thing.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_07: I've never seen more leadership suffering than I see today.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_07: And I use that word deliberately.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_07: And this is not meant to be political, but it kind of is.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_07: There's, you know, when a when a president can write an executive order and transform an industry for the worse overnight, and you know, 10 million people are out of healthcare coverage, or you know, the the Medicaid patients can't get um acute care in a children's hospital because whatever.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_07: You know, healthcare, just as an example, is one-sixth of our GDP.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_07: Those kinds of changes matter a lot.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_07: So there's more environmental impact, at least on businesses and in athletics today, than I've ever seen before, and more leaders suffer.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_07: What underlies it is honoring self.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_07: We need to find different ways to care for ourselves, and it's not just more meditation classes or yoga mats.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_07: It's really understanding what our bowlers are, it's understanding what our fears are.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I was going to share something similar to this, Foster.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, from my brief, I had about a five-year career as an architect.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the things I learned in that period of time was demolishing something goes a lot faster than creating it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: The ramifications of demolition or destruction, thinking through what are we really doing when we take healthcare away from people?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: What are we really doing with some of these um destructive decisions that are making?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because the creative part that comes from creative destruction, as Schumperter talked about, the creative part can be really dramatic, but sometimes we're we're destroying stuff that doesn't need to be destroyed.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_04: So there's an aspect of thinking through the, you know, how do we think through as opposed to just write an executive order that we're going to demolish something?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well said.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_04: Others?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: Foster, how will you know help guide us to understand better how we've lost the people part of business, understand what collaboration could really mean?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: Is it going to change our structures?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, where we have often as a business founder started a company based on our beliefs, followed it through, and kept our secrets within so that we had our competitive advantage and we had our industry advantages, et cetera.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: How do we look to collaborate, build the teams, and bring the people and their voices back into these billion dollar, trillion dollar industries and businesses?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, my short answer, Amy, is we don't have a choice.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_07: We've lost generations.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_07: We are losing generations of people that just can't connect with meaning in a certain way and in a way that satisfies them.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_07: And unless and until we make sure that we've connected the what's important to our all of our generations with the mission of that company, we've lost it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_07: That's not dire.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_07: I don't I believe we can.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_07: I believe that the talents in the in all the generations are incredible.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_07: Like I've heard Gen Z's written off, and I've heard Gen Alpha's written off.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_07: Go talk to them.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_07: Go talk to them.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_07: They don't think like we do, but man, are they smart because they've look what they've had to live into.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_07: We just need to learn to listen differently.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_07: We need to learn to harness differently.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_07: We need to learn to partner differently and subordinate our old values and our views to some stuff that's emerging.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_05: Any other questions?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_05: I got one.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_05: I was thinking it was a very subjective question, so I'll ask it directly to you.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_05: What do you do to better understand yourself as a person and a leader?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_07: It's my morning pages.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_07: I journal every day, or I try and journal every day.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_07: And then I will use books.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_07: This we're just about to come out with a newsletter or something.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_07: When I talk to people, I this is my way of learning.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_07: And so I got this book recommended to me recently called Practicing Compassion.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_07: But it's just they're just prompts.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_07: Like if you seal my office, I've got like 35 really cool, thoughtful books.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_07: That's not like, hey, look at me, I'm reading all these books.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_07: I need it.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_07: I it just it's a stimulus.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_07: It's a I might read two pages in practicing compassion, and my brain goes like this, and I gotta write it down, I gotta think about it and stuff.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_07: So I really try and stay on top of it, Tim.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_07: It's um yeah, it's a that's an important source for me.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: My question would be you wrote leadership was lonely, like if you're a head coach, no one holds that responsibility.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're the person who is consulting that person on coaching, I'm assuming that's a pretty lonely job too.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't mind sharing, how do you personally kind of fill that void of loneliness?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, what a great question, Rob.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_07: I will say it's less lonely for me than it is for them.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_07: Nobody is going on Twitter criticizing my hair, wardrobe, how I showed up, right, Jordan?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_07: Like I don't get that.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_07: I am an anonymous kind of shadow figure behind the scenes.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_07: I'm not the leader.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_07: I'm coaching the leader, I'm behind the scenes in the leader.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_07: And honestly, it's it's a safer place.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_07: I am not on the cutting edge of that feedback or that scrutiny.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_07: So it's it's just, yeah, honestly, I'm just I'm less lonely.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_07: And if I'm coaching Jordan, I'm also probably coaching you know, seven or eight other people.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_07: So I have those kind of interactions and I learn the company's cultures and the dynamics and stuff like that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_07: So I'm always involved.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_07: I don't get just to be part of one company my own.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_07: I get to be part of you know, like Tilia, or I get to be part of you know, Mount Mule, because I'm I have to learn their cultures and advise them and stuff like that.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah, loneliness like that is not something I've experienced.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_07: Guys, anything else you want to make sure that you get in here?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_07: Um, because I am I am tapped out of questions.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'd just like to say thank you for inviting us, and it was wonderful to hear everybody else's perspective on this book, this teenage book you have.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_07: You know those teenage years, Eric.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_04: Now it's appropriate to swear when you're a teenager.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_07: Well, it's funny that I tried to trademark that title and the the term.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_07: And in 2011, the trademark office wouldn't let me because they said it was too profane.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_07: And within two years or three years, there was there were books like you know dropping F-bombs and and all that kind of stuff.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_07: It changed like that, and suddenly leadership didn't seem so profane anymore.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_07: But anyway, it is what it is.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_07: Live and learn.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_07: And if what we talked about today sparks something in you, there's a book called Leadership Rethinking the True Path to Great Leading.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_07: Yes, that's the real title, that goes deeper into this territory.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_07: It's on my website at fostermobley.com.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_07: And then sign up for our email list to be notified when my next book, Honoring, goes into pre-sale in 2027.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_07: And if there's one person in your life who needed to hear this episode, send it to them.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_07: Not because we need the numbers, because they need the conversation.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_07: Set the table, invite cool people, magic happens.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_07: I'm Foster Mobley.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_07: As always, friends, stepwise.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_07: Our music for season three is composed and performed by Montana musical legend Philip Auburg, courtesy of Sweet Grass Music.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_07: Phil's recent passing was felt by many, including those of us associated with this podcast.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_07: We thank Patty Auburgh and Sweetgrass Music for access to this beautiful piece.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Stepwise.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Stepwise is produced, edited, and promoted by Zedist with support from Amber Gillard Consulting.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Find more episodes and resources at fostermobli.com and follow Foster on social media at FosterMobley.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.