Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / Who gets to fall in love? Dating online with a disability ft. Nidhi Goyal

Transcript

Who gets to fall in love? Dating online with a disability ft. Nidhi Goyal · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

• 0:03
  Love is for everyone, and it is for everyone, There's no question about
• 0:08
  it. I think where we need to start is not to question ourselves and
• 0:12
  not to question others on where they belong. For lonely hearts, dating online
• 0:17
  can be a savior, especially when something big, say a great distance or
• 0:23
  a global pandemic, makes it hard to meet people in real life. But
• 0:27
  what about when those apps and online spaces aren't all that helpful because they don't
• 0:32
  cater to your disability? Where do we turn to and how do we stay
• 0:37
  hopeful? Hey? Everyone, I'm Evelyn Charmah and this is Love Matters,
• 0:47
  a podcast about relationship topics that matter to you and me from DW and Indian
• 0:52
  Express. And today we're talking about dating online with a disability, what to
• 0:58
  look out for, what to look forward to, and some tips for everyone
• 1:02
  to help make online spaces a bit more inclusive and friendlier for all. I'm
• 1:07
  really excited to welcome our guest for this episode to help us do just that.
• 1:12
  Disability and gender rights activist Nitty Goyle is also a researcher, writer,
• 1:19
  trainer, and stand up comedian. Besides being an advocate. After losing her
• 1:23
  sight as a teenager, Nitty devoted herself to raising awareness and making positive changes
• 1:30
  to the lives of people living with disabilities in India. She is the founder
• 1:34
  and executive director of the Mumbai based nonprofit Rising Flame, which works to improve
• 1:41
  the rights for people in the disabled community, particularly women and young people,
• 1:47
  and she is also a former global adviser for You and Women. Thank you
• 1:52
  so much for being with us today, Nidy, Welcome to the show.
• 1:56
  Hi, Eveline, it's my pleasure to be on this show. Thank you
• 1:59
  so much for having me. It's our pleasure. So I was doing a
• 2:01
  bit of background reading on your journey and achievements, which are many, some
• 2:07
  of which I've already mentioned, but I also wanted to hear from you in
• 2:10
  your own words. What is it that you do and why do you do
• 2:15
  it? This question is as complicated as it can get and as simple as
• 2:21
  it can get. Right. So I am you know my name, but
• 2:25
  I basically work with people with disabilities and for people with disabilities, being disabled
• 2:32
  myself, right, I think I want to say this. You can call
• 2:37
  me an activist, you can call me an inclusion specialist. You can call
• 2:40
  me someone who's dedicated their life on advancing rights for persons with disabilities. But
• 2:46
  basically, what I do, and this is really coming from my heart,
• 2:52
  is what I'm doing is that we creating a space where we understand that we
• 2:58
  all are a part of society, that inclusion is really the way we need
• 3:04
  to go forward. We there is no you and me, there is no
• 3:08
  us in I think that is what I'm working for, and I'd like to
• 3:12
  define myself in that way. Beautiful. Um, and quick check on your
• 3:17
  current chapter of life that you're in. What's your current relationship status? Currently
• 3:24
  married? Not get bored of my husband? That my current status same here?
• 3:34
  Currently married? Um, when did you guys get married? Um?
• 3:39
  Actually this you know two years ago? Two years ago guys in the pandemic.
• 3:46
  Yeah, me too, my mare. My wedding day is fifteenth of
• 3:52
  May, so it is actually two years ago. Woah wow minus oh my
• 4:00
  god. I promise you guys, we didn't coordinate all of this. And
• 4:08
  I don't know. I don't know if I'm newly with or I still sometimes
• 4:12
  feel like it like I don't have no idea what we're doing. But then
• 4:15
  sometimes I also feel like we've been in this forever. Do you feel like
• 4:19
  that too? I create you and I can start the support group of people
• 4:24
  who am I doing the plundering? There was even a thing I really thought
• 4:29
  of starting that I think you do enough. Okay, I think no need
• 4:33
  to start a new one. All right, Let's wind back the clock a
• 4:38
  bit before we hear more about your husband, because I want to know about
• 4:43
  your history with online dating, since that's our topic today. How much experience
• 4:48
  with dating apps or online dating tools have you had before you met your husband?
• 4:56
  How much is a difficult question, but I'll tell you what periods I've
• 5:00
  had three or four three three spells in my life. Maybe when I went
• 5:04
  onto these online platforms the first time, when I thought I was heartbroken,
• 5:10
  and I was like, hey, but I'm not maybe looking at the right
• 5:13
  place. So I logged on two matrimonial sites and I was like, Okay,
• 5:16
  let's find a life partner, you know, and not get into this
• 5:20
  whole. Oh I'm in love with this person and I want to go out
• 5:24
  and let's directly jump into marriage. And I was for six months on and
• 5:29
  I say quantifiably because you know, it seems like a very short time.
• 5:32
  But the kind of experiences that I had, all the responses that I got
• 5:35
  on this matrimonial these matrimonial sites. It was so hilarious and entertaining on multiple
• 5:43
  levels because as a woman and I loved in by myself and you know,
• 5:46
  I will come to that probably that was this next time when I wanted to
• 5:49
  write about online dating apps for persons with disabilities, and I was like,
• 5:55
  hey, I can't do this. I have to first log in myself.
• 5:58
  Right. That was when I was briefly on dating apps, and I'll tell
• 6:03
  you more about what turned me off at that point. And the third time
• 6:10
  was when I thought I had Christmas break and I said, oh, this
• 6:15
  is the month I have time in life, and I have been wanting to
• 6:19
  get onto dating apps for a while, and so why don't I do this?
• 6:25
  And so experiences interesting experiences from that toom Okay, well, so you've
• 6:31
  kind of dabbled around a bit in all types of dating apps. You know.
• 6:39
  I've had conversations with quite a few people now that have shared their you
• 6:44
  know, pros and cons about dating apps, and some people like them,
• 6:46
  some people don't. Right, Um, so when do you stand now after
• 6:51
  your dating experience? What were your good and bad experiences? So one of
• 6:57
  the most interesting experiences the kind of silence, particularly on matrimonial apps, that
• 7:01
  meets with you. So first people don't realize even if you're bold and say
• 7:08
  I am blind, etc. Et. Which I did on my matrimonial profile,
• 7:14
  either people aren't reading or they don't register because you're not expecting someone with
• 7:17
  the disability to be in these spaces. Right. If you're expecting people with
• 7:21
  disabilities to be in those spaces, you're already expecting the apps or the algorithms
• 7:26
  to cut them out right, so not to match them with you. So
• 7:30
  you have that kind of face that this is a different category and I would
• 7:34
  never be matched with them, because very often here you're taking your preferences,
• 7:40
  so you're saying, you know, this particular kind living here, or this
• 7:45
  kind of work or these kind of thoughts, and you end up matching the
• 7:49
  platform ends up matching you, but you actually didn't want to match someone with
• 7:54
  someone with a disability. And so these are the these are the these are
• 7:59
  the these problems, right, And so I've met with these sort of responses
• 8:03
  where I would get a call and I'd be like, I'm blind, Is
• 8:07
  it okay? Because very often a matrimonial of a website, it's the parents
• 8:11
  and so you're you know, and I've met with stutters and fumbles and upsetness
• 8:16
  and rage and hilarity because I remember this one time this man called me up
• 8:24
  and he was like, yes, you know, I understand pain because I'm
• 8:26
  so lonely in life and I hate my mother and my brothers hate me,
• 8:31
  and my siblings are blah, and you know, I'd really like to know
• 8:33
  you. And it was very, very like the whole his whole not his
• 8:37
  story, I mean that was a turn off at another level, but his
• 8:41
  whole voice, his demeanor, his approach is, you know, everything was
• 8:45
  not really attractive. And I was just being polite that how I you know,
• 8:48
  let me find a way to hang up. And by the end he
• 8:50
  was like, oh, I really want to take this ahead, but I
• 8:54
  really hope you don't have a problem. There's a criminal case of dowry going
• 8:56
  on on me. And I was like, do not contact me ever again.
• 9:07
  Here is what I wanted to find, poor light and nice and I
• 9:11
  just got a good way to hang up because this is a non NEGOTIOO bir
• 9:16
  and so. But it's also like, you know, which group of people
• 9:18
  think it's okay to approach people with disabilities. Right, So obviously you're like,
• 9:24
  oh, so this is less than me, and this is going to
• 9:28
  be a perceived problem, So let's go and find a disabled person. They'll
• 9:31
  be so desperate to be with someone that they'll be okay with trade. So
• 9:37
  I think this is one of the experience. But I also have very interesting
• 9:39
  experiences on the last leg when I set the dating app that I was on
• 9:45
  where you know, the way I introduced my disability. Of course, my
• 9:48
  photographs have most of the times my knee holding a white cane, right,
• 9:50
  because I am blind. But as much as public awareness, course, people
• 9:54
  don't register the white cane again because we don't imagine that they'll a disabled person
• 10:01
  on the app. Otherwise, why wouldn't you where, you know, on
• 10:03
  dating apps where we know that people scrutinize photographs and look at the hair color
• 10:07
  and purring and details and dad, dad da, why would you not recognize
• 10:13
  a white keene in someone's hand, right, Yeah, you automatically overlook because
• 10:18
  you don't expect someone to be there, right. But anyway, so my
• 10:20
  way of introducing us, once we got chatting, they'd be like, tell
• 10:24
  me more about you, and I'd paste a link to my stand up set.
• 10:28
  That's very good. So as an entry point to say I and because
• 10:33
  my opening says I'm blind, so was love. And I was like,
• 10:35
  you know, hello, so here is the information plus my humor, plus
• 10:41
  a warning that there'll be a set on you later. But that sounds good,
• 10:48
  right, Well, I guess not everyone has a stand up set to
• 10:52
  share. But it was just what I did. I wasn't doing. Everyone
• 10:56
  should do it. And you know what was this guy turned around me?
• 11:00
  Then, my god, it's so amazing how you mask your pain and humor.
• 11:03
  I'm like, watch pain. It's like you don't have to hide from
• 11:09
  me. I'm like hide watch Oh my goodness. So it's to prove that
• 11:15
  there was sorrow in my life and how disability was my sorrow and I was
• 11:18
  using stand up comedy to cope with it. And that's why all the jokes
• 11:22
  were quote unquote self dedicatory. It's like, do you want to stand English?
• 11:26
  Because my quotes were not self dedicate, they're dedicatory O with people.
• 11:30
  No, are actually ablest, right? I watch your stand up shows and
• 11:35
  they're hilarious. I love your humor. It's so I feel like it's so
• 11:39
  empowering um And I feel like, you know a lot of people when they
• 11:45
  go online dating can be a bit of a doorway, of course, to
• 11:48
  love and romance that they wouldn't have usually been able to locate otherwise, either
• 11:54
  you know, because they're shy and introverted, they're looking for something very specific,
• 12:00
  or sometimes it's dangerous for them to be public about who they want to
• 12:05
  love. From your experience and the people that you know, is are there
• 12:11
  any other fears? It still gives you the opportunity to say I'm disabled,
• 12:15
  right absolutely, In an in person space, a person looks at you and
• 12:18
  walks away, right. Yeah. So if you're in a party, it's
• 12:22
  very hilarious because I mean in my college days, I remember someone from the
• 12:26
  college and this was a young young guy. It was like, hey,
• 12:31
  you girls, so now all of you and your group have boyfriends. And
• 12:35
  I was like, I'm in the group. I don't have a boyfriend.
• 12:37
  It's like, yeah, but you are you right? I mean, everybody
• 12:41
  your head that group is now dating someone. I was like, what do
• 12:43
  you mean? Like, so there is an invisibilization to another level, and
• 12:48
  it's to your face. In the online space, I feel like there's still
• 12:54
  you know, I say that people are not expecting you, but you're still
• 12:58
  there. They can choose not to engage with you later, but the fact
• 13:01
  that you're there own a dating app is clearly sending the signal that you're here
• 13:05
  to date, right, which is not something that you can do in a
• 13:09
  personal like a social space or a party or a college or educational university,
• 13:15
  etc. Right. So I think this also is important for that. The
• 13:18
  second is to connect with people. You know, not all social spaces are
• 13:22
  accessible, and so online dating opens up that way to connect to people where
• 13:28
  you may have been excluded or may really have wanted to go to that freshest
• 13:31
  party and it wasn't just in an accessible when you know there was no support
• 13:35
  was intimidating. You were worried if people would judge you. Online dating makes
• 13:39
  that link to the accessibility of course, if the online app is accessible,
• 13:45
  And that really brings to one of the stories that I have, you know,
• 13:48
  the experience when I, for research got onto the dating apps, and
• 13:50
  I remember I took a friend's help because you know, you have to choose
• 13:54
  your picture, and I was like, oh, let me choose a good
• 13:56
  picture, but also tell me you know, this app is not built in
• 14:00
  the right way, so it just says button, button, button, you
• 14:03
  know, where's the accept and the reject button? So they just told me
• 14:05
  like, on the left is this, on the right is this. And
• 14:09
  I left that for fifteen days because I wasn't really like dating, dating intensively
• 14:13
  right looking for a partner. After fifteen days opened the app and I,
• 14:16
  I'm very confidently banking on my memory, kept clicking the button I thought was
• 14:22
  excellent, and I had a friend sent me the same friend. He's like,
• 14:28
  hey, did you try the rest of it? And said, yes,
• 14:31
  look I haven't received responses or there are responses, some little baffle bowl
• 14:35
  of this, and he was like, what have you done? Why did
• 14:41
  you like this person? They've sent you weird photos? Oh god? And
• 14:46
  I was like, okay, this is the yes button, right, and
• 14:48
  he's like, no, this is the no button. But then I got
• 14:50
  curious and I said what photos? As he said so it was about apparently
• 14:54
  they were new pictures, and I laughed out loud, and my friends,
• 14:58
  like, women are generally horrified. Why are you laughing? I said,
• 15:01
  I'm really pitying him. What a waste. He didn't realize I'm flying,
• 15:05
  So we can't agree. Oh, thank goodness. Well, do you think
• 15:13
  there should be maybe separate apps for people waste a disability? Should they be
• 15:18
  different apps for different disabilities or do you feel like, um, nor,
• 15:22
  that's not really inclusions. So that's just gonna I absolutely, I don't think
• 15:26
  that's the way to go. Yeah, Making segregated pockets of this group should
• 15:30
  only be with this group, that group should only be ye that group does
• 15:33
  not help any of us. It does not help us also in life if
• 15:37
  we don't accept this, because today you could be non disabled, tomorrow you
• 15:39
  could be disabled. Right. I was a non disabled kid when I was
• 15:43
  growing up, so it's not like I was born with a disability. If
• 15:46
  you don't work towards that understanding of inclusive societies, and I'm saying I'm taking
• 15:50
  relationship and dating as an example, because we are talking about dating, families,
• 15:56
  children, like all of that circuit. Right, if you leave disabled
• 16:00
  people out of it, or any kind of diversities, right, we're basically
• 16:03
  looking at a society where we're talking to ourselves or mirror images of ourselves.
• 16:07
  Yeah, And that's not a way to grow collectively, achieve anything. Nothing,
• 16:11
  And so I absolutely You know, there are some disabled people who would
• 16:15
  say yes, and they also come from a space off we're tired of rejection,
• 16:18
  so we'd rather be in a space where we're treated with dignity and equality,
• 16:22
  right. And I had this conversation because there are many some dating apps
• 16:27
  which are exclusively for disabled persons, right, and they're like, yes,
• 16:32
  I'd rather be on that because I'm tired of sensitizing everybody else. I'm tired
• 16:36
  of being judged in so many places, and this is not what I want
• 16:41
  to do. So that's why people also opt. But I am absolutely not
• 16:47
  for it. Yeah. So now for like a woman applying woman, what
• 16:52
  do you wish for to see on a dating app? I mean now you're
• 16:56
  not sinking, but maybe other blind women what would they love to kind of
• 17:03
  you know, is there? Do they need the audio description? Or how
• 17:07
  could the app make it more inclusive? I would just say accessibility. The
• 17:12
  first thing is just when you're coding the app, please just follow the accessibility
• 17:17
  guidelines. It just and doesn't add cost. These are Web accessibility guidelines.
• 17:22
  They are easily available online and all coders can use this. Web developers can
• 17:27
  use this. Just very basic steps to make things accessible. Okay, Like
• 17:33
  there are headings that are put buttons that are labeled very very basic design and
• 17:37
  development non design development piece at the back end for all apps, websites,
• 17:42
  everything. So first step would be that so that I'm not saying yes to
• 17:45
  people I want to say no to, right, because you're both your buttons
• 17:48
  such as called buttons by my screen reader and not labeled. Okay, well
• 17:53
  see there you go. Like that is something so rather simple for a coder
• 17:59
  to, isn't it. Yes, it's absolutely simple and for everybody else if
• 18:04
  you want to put a little image description of yourself, yeah, or everybody
• 18:08
  loves to, like say, hey, look at that red dress that I'm
• 18:11
  wearing, or look at that shirt, or my beard looks wonky in this
• 18:15
  picture, or it's really neatly trimmed. Just put that in a description.
• 18:19
  You know what. People would love that, not just looking at your pictures,
• 18:23
  even non disabled folks wh would love like reading the description that you have
• 18:29
  written about yourself and your images. It's called image descriptions and very very basic
• 18:33
  from the user point of view. If you just put a little image description,
• 18:37
  it just becomes even better. For someone who is blind or low vision
• 18:41
  and we have seen for others who have some other diversities within the spectrum,
• 18:45
  right, but on one feature that can make it super fun, and WhatsApp
• 18:52
  did it right earlier. If you remember WhatsApp was only chat, then that
• 18:55
  was audio, and then that was with you just the audio button, not
• 19:00
  to leave each other audio messages and not just text messages. To have both
• 19:04
  those built in options in most of the apps, that would be fantastic,
• 19:07
  awesome. Yeah, the basic thing isn't don't don't screen people out. I
• 19:12
  still remember that one of one of the app requests is still pending after two
• 19:17
  years because they ask you to log in and connect your Facebook and they approve
• 19:22
  people who they have to approve. So yeah, and so in my friend
• 19:27
  circle, most of my friends have been approved on that app. I was
• 19:30
  never approved on the app. I never had the opportunity to log in.
• 19:34
  And it's very clear. Why do you feel like they clearly don't want people
• 19:40
  with the disability on their apps or it's a mistake. I don't think it's
• 19:47
  It could be a mistake, but I really feel that there is a certain
• 19:51
  way that we segregate society. Right, So even if you go on the
• 19:53
  matrimonial apps, there are matrimonial websites. There is category, there is a
• 19:59
  category of cast, there is a category of religion, there is a category
• 20:03
  of disability, there is a category of income. Right, so we know
• 20:08
  how you want people to be filtered, and so I'm I'm really not saying
• 20:15
  that everybody should be with disabled people. That's not what I'm saying. I'm
• 20:18
  saying let them be on the same platform. Right, that's our first step
• 20:22
  to even begin with. Imagine it's like saying that this is an app only
• 20:30
  for white women. Say if to upload your photo and they'll approve if you
• 20:37
  can be on the app or not. It's really like that, right,
• 20:45
  So what we're just saying is leave that space open. Let's take that as
• 20:49
  first step. Think of that space as people with diversities existing. So make
• 20:56
  the back end or the coding accessible. And third, for you users,
• 21:00
  that's a step three because then we're talking about inclusive societies to think about,
• 21:04
  Hey, there could be all kinds of people here. Why don't I put
• 21:08
  a little imaged description maybe everyone would enjoy. Yeah, maybe I put a
• 21:12
  little voice chat option, and that makes it super personal. So half of
• 21:17
  the things where you have to exchange personal information, people are hesitating to get
• 21:22
  on the calls. Some of that doesn't happen. You know, it's not
• 21:25
  going to make it super safe. But if a fifty year old man is
• 21:29
  saying that he's twenty, the minute you have a voice chat, you might
• 21:32
  mostly be able to know that he's not. Yeah. Right, So it
• 21:37
  builds in a lot of things that we don't and has a lot of impact
• 21:41
  that we may not factor in at the outset. Well, I hope some
• 21:47
  people from the apps are listening today, so we see some of these changes.
• 21:55
  Well, you've met your husband not online and not on a dating app,
• 22:00
  So tell us how did you meet him? Oh? My god,
• 22:03
  Yeah, it's always interesting. So we were friends for many years, but
• 22:07
  it's so interesting the way we met as friends. He read about me in
• 22:11
  a newspaper, Oh really, where some of my work and achievements were a
• 22:15
  coward and he found out he wanted to connect further information on some access possibilities.
• 22:23
  They wanted to connect with my brother who's also blind and has done an
• 22:26
  MBA from Barton and so he couldn't find his numbers, so he found mine
• 22:32
  and they got chatting, and he didn't connect from my brother for months after.
• 22:37
  But it's also been an interesting journey because online dating did figure out in
• 22:41
  our piece. We didn't meet through online dating, but he was the one
• 22:45
  who encouraged me to get on to Tinder, let's say, and he started
• 22:48
  me off with because we were friends and we were helping each other find me.
• 22:52
  So so we went on to Tinder and I was trying to write really
• 22:56
  serious responses and he was like, oh my god, do you not know
• 23:00
  this platform? Here, let me chat for you, and he put all
• 23:04
  these cheesy comments of like ooh, look at those bises. I'm like,
• 23:08
  no, no, you do not do this. There was this one evening
• 23:14
  when he grabbed my phone and he was like, I'll chat on your bio
• 23:18
  and he put some three four random messages to random bin. I was like,
• 23:22
  that's eight. You do not every touch. Oh that's funny. And
• 23:27
  you guys kind of had to do a bit of online dating, so to
• 23:33
  speak, because of the pandemic, So you did get to know each other
• 23:37
  quite a bit over the phone. That is that right? Yes? And
• 23:42
  do you think that is actually something great or something you wish? You know,
• 23:48
  you could have just been together next to each other. That's always that
• 23:52
  would that would have always been amazing right to be with each other, next
• 23:56
  to each other. I think he asked me out and the world couldn't handle
• 23:59
  it. So the limited he asked me out in jan and in March we
• 24:03
  were in lockdown. Oh goodness, it's so hard. It's hard, and
• 24:10
  I don't do long distance very well. The only way I thought our relationship
• 24:12
  would work is because he was living in Delhi. I was living in Mumbai,
• 24:17
  and I for work, I traveled to tell you, many a times
• 24:19
  in a month, So the possibilities of meeting him while he was in Delhi
• 24:23
  was much higher rather than if he was living in Mumbai because of my travel
• 24:29
  schedule. So anyway, I think what's important and this again circles back,
• 24:33
  and so I'm going to give you a little bit of a sneak peek into
• 24:37
  how our relationship worked. Was how online factors in. Right, So we're
• 24:42
  talking about online dating apps per se, but what online dating means when you
• 24:47
  live with a disability. You have first search which of the chat platforms are
• 24:51
  accessible. Fortunately some of them are, right. Then you have to see
• 24:56
  if you're everything that's going on around is accessible. So yes, there are
• 25:02
  comedians doing these online stand up comedy shows. Which booking platform are they're using,
• 25:08
  right? And is that accessible for us to go on that virtual date
• 25:12
  with each other? So it just is add so many layers, you know.
• 25:18
  For I think three weeks into the lockdown, he did not ask me
• 25:21
  for a video call, and I was really really upset. I was like,
• 25:25
  do you not want to look at me? Like? What has happened?
• 25:27
  You know, he lives with lovision, I am completely blind, but
• 25:32
  I was like, you can see that much, Like why wouldn't you want
• 25:33
  to look at me? Right? Because it's a new relationship and you're you're
• 25:37
  perplexed, and you also have I wouldn't call it insecurities, but there are
• 25:41
  in any and no matter how many years you know that as a friend,
• 25:45
  it's a new relationship, right, And so I was like, why don't
• 25:48
  you want to look at me? And I was so upset and he's like,
• 25:52
  but wouldn't that be inconvenient for you? I said, I don't care
• 25:59
  to me, and so, you know, we basically that's when we started
• 26:03
  doing with your calls. But also it was interesting because I at some point
• 26:10
  told him, but I feel like I'm missing out because for me. Yeah,
• 26:14
  when I sat next to you, I knew you were nodding your head
• 26:15
  in a certain way, or your cheeks were going up in a mischievous way,
• 26:21
  and you were going to crack a joke like things like that, right,
• 26:23
  which I know a little bit from your voice, of course, because
• 26:27
  I knew you for many years. But I'm missing I don't all that.
• 26:30
  And I just said this two men from the next call. He started describing
• 26:34
  what he was doing on the other end, like he was like, Hey,
• 26:37
  so I'm folding clothes while we're talking. Okay, oh my god,
• 26:42
  there's tons of washing here. So whatever you would see as a couple,
• 26:47
  So if you did a video call with a partner, or two cited folks
• 26:51
  did a video call with each other, the information that you would absorb automatically
• 26:55
  saying, oh my god, you're in the middle of a pile of clothes,
• 26:57
  he just describe it for me. So when I said that there were
• 27:00
  little like image descriptions that you could, he just did an aud your description
• 27:04
  of whatever was happening around him or at home. And I thought that was
• 27:08
  really really it was beautiful actually for me because it brought us much more closer.
• 27:15
  It brought the sensitivity up right. So for all the listeners out there
• 27:21
  who can relate to your story and experience, who might be living with a
• 27:25
  disability and or feeling excluded from dating apps and online spaces, people who want
• 27:33
  to seek romance find love but they're hesitant about dating online. What tips do
• 27:38
  you have? What tips do you suggest? You won't find someone without putting
• 27:44
  yourself out there. It's difficult for everyone. It may be particularly difficult or
• 27:49
  challenging for you in some areas or some not, but it won't happen until
• 27:53
  you don't trust to yourself. I think the second thing is really accept yourself
• 28:00
  before you want someone else to accept you. Don't be embarrassed. I've heard
• 28:04
  stories like I need like I'm not sure if I can hold my bladder,
• 28:14
  and so I need to visit the louverary often with my condition, and I
• 28:18
  feel embarrassed about that on a date. I think just being okay with your
• 28:22
  body, just being okay with who you are, just being okay with your
• 28:26
  condition, if it's a psychosocial disability, a chronic illness, whichever is right.
• 28:33
  I think without self love, this is not going to happen, and
• 28:37
  it takes the third one is it takes time to build trust, empathy and
• 28:44
  understanding and it works both ways. So yeah. The last biggest and broadest
• 28:51
  thing to remember is everybody faces a rejection for some reason or the other.
• 28:56
  So if you just look at it as a larger piece of date, it
• 29:00
  would hurt us us. Beautiful, beautiful, well said, and thank you
• 29:07
  so much Nidi again for being with us today and sharing so openly with us.
• 29:11
  I'm sure our listeners could take away a lot from our chat. I'm
• 29:15
  pretty impressed about your actionable steps that you can share with us, you know,
• 29:19
  whether it's for app developers or for a person with a disability to just
• 29:25
  have some courage and get out there, because they are people that want to
• 29:29
  meet you, that want to meet people to fall in love with. Absolutely
• 29:33
  yes, I do want to say at the end, Develine, that love
• 29:37
  is for everyone, and it is for everyone, There's no question about it.
• 29:42
  I think where we need to start is not to question ourselves and not
• 29:47
  to question others on where they belong. That's all I'd like to say on
• 29:51
  this fantastic show of yours, because love really matters for all of us.
• 29:56
  Thank you so much for having me. Thank you and listeners, I highly
• 30:00
  recommend to check out Nittigoyle's work and follow her. You can find her on
• 30:06
  Instagram. Her handle is at says Nittigoyle and the name of her organization is
• 30:12
  Rising Flame. You can also find that on Instagram at Rising Underscore Flame.
• 30:19
  We'll have both linked in the show notes too, and thank you so much
• 30:25
  for listening today. Remember if you have any love or dating questions and stories
• 30:29
  to share, send them our way at Love Matters at DW dot com.
• 30:33
  And if you like the podcast, don't forget to rate and review us on
• 30:37
  whatever podcast platform you're using right now, and of course share it with a
• 30:42
  friend. I'm Evelyn Charma and I think Love Matters n were deviled to charm My