Latest / Beautifully Complex / 292: Representing Neurodivergence in Kid’s Media, with Deborah Farmer Kris

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292: Representing Neurodivergence in Kid’s Media, with Deborah Farmer Kris · Beautifully Complex

0:03
Speaker 1: There have been characters like Julia and Sesame Street, but
0:07
Speaker 1: it's different when it's just there. This is the lead,
0:11
Speaker 1: and it's not like here's a character we introduce to
0:14
Speaker 1: kind of represent It simply is a group of friends
0:18
Speaker 1: and everyone is an individual and their neuro diversity as
0:24
Speaker 1: a group of friends is what makes them so strong.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
0:33
Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
0:38
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
0:42
Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
0:45
Speaker 2: of raising your a typical kid. Let's get started. Hey, everybody,
0:54
Speaker 2: welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am super thrilled to
0:58
Speaker 2: have Deborah Farmers Chris here with me to talk about
1:04
Speaker 2: the representation of neurodivergence in media and the new kids
1:08
Speaker 2: show in PS that she's been a part of called
1:11
Speaker 2: Carl the Collector, and we're going to dive into I think,
1:15
Speaker 2: what it means to be represented, what it means for
1:18
Speaker 2: our kids to see it, what it means for the
1:20
Speaker 2: adults in their lives to watch with them and to
1:23
Speaker 2: gain their own knowledge and language and helpful perspectives. But
1:28
Speaker 2: I want to start, Deborah with you just letting everybody
1:31
Speaker 2: know who you are and what you do.
1:33
Speaker 1: So my name is Deborah Farmer Chris. I'm a parent educator.
1:36
Speaker 1: I spent twenty plus years in the classroom. I write
1:39
Speaker 1: books for kids and for parents, and I have a
1:42
Speaker 1: website called Parenthoo three sixty five dot com where you
1:45
Speaker 1: can find all my stuff. But the project from the
1:49
Speaker 1: last two years that I'm so excited about has been
1:51
Speaker 1: Carl the Collector, which debuted on November fourteenth. Because this
1:54
Speaker 1: is a really special show and I feel it's kind
1:57
Speaker 1: of like the big hearted show our world really needs
1:59
Speaker 1: right now. Thank you Penny for letting me come and
2:02
Speaker 1: gush about it.
2:03
Speaker 2: Yes, and I have seen some clips. I haven't been
2:06
Speaker 2: able to watch yet, but I've seen some clips, and
2:09
Speaker 2: I mean, I want to watch it. It's so warm
2:13
Speaker 2: and real and friendly and a million other things. I'm sure,
2:19
Speaker 2: but that's what came across to me really quickly as
2:21
Speaker 2: I watched some clips of it. Do you want to
2:24
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about like how this came to be?
2:29
Speaker 2: Because I know there's a huge process behind representing autism
2:34
Speaker 2: and neurodivergence. In media, people don't just say, oh, we're
2:39
Speaker 2: just gonna say this person, this character is autistic, and
2:42
Speaker 2: there we go. So do you want to give us
2:44
Speaker 2: a little insight as to what that process is like?
2:47
Speaker 1: Sure? First, let me just say that Carl the Collector
2:49
Speaker 1: at its core is about six Woodland creatures who lived
2:52
Speaker 1: in Fuzzytown, and Carl is a raccoon who collects things,
2:56
Speaker 1: and Carl is autistic, Andya Sheldon the beaver, who is
3:00
Speaker 1: his real wingman via FAF super empathetic. There is a
3:04
Speaker 1: lot of who is an incredible musician and represents girls
3:08
Speaker 1: on the spectrum, and so there's this great episode called
3:11
Speaker 1: a whole Lot a Lot of Right, she's very upset
3:13
Speaker 1: because someone in after school programs calling her headphone girl
3:15
Speaker 1: because she wears her headphones a lot. And you've got
3:18
Speaker 1: a couple of twins, Nico and Rugula bunnies but whore
3:21
Speaker 1: identical but of very different temperaments. And you've got Forrest.
3:25
Speaker 1: He is a squirrel with a net allergy and he
3:28
Speaker 1: absolutely has ADHD and it is his superpower and sometimes
3:32
Speaker 1: it makes his life a little bit difficult and he
3:35
Speaker 1: has to figure out, you know, with the help of
3:37
Speaker 1: these friends, and it's just it's a beautiful show. It's
3:39
Speaker 1: designed for four to eight. But I'll tell you my
3:42
Speaker 1: love and thirteen year old've been been watching. It's super cute.
3:45
Speaker 1: But it didn't just happen as you're saying.
3:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:48
Speaker 1: I was first contacted by Zakohora, who is an amazing
3:53
Speaker 1: children's book writer and if you know him, you'll know
3:56
Speaker 1: his style. And his style is in fuzzy town. He
3:58
Speaker 1: calls it kind of a janky style of art. And
4:01
Speaker 1: I had been working with PBS Kids for about five
4:03
Speaker 1: years at that point, and I had just recently helped
4:06
Speaker 1: them develop their social and emotional kind of framework for
4:11
Speaker 1: all the show. Producers this it's kind of show by
4:13
Speaker 1: Blood worked on it for like two years with a
4:16
Speaker 1: bunch of advisors, and so when he was working with
4:19
Speaker 1: PBS to design this show, and there was no guarantee
4:23
Speaker 1: it would make it right because there's a big design process,
4:26
Speaker 1: not all shows make the final cut. He needed a
4:28
Speaker 1: social emotional learning advisor, and so they suggested me. We
4:32
Speaker 1: had a great talk and I immediately fell in love
4:34
Speaker 1: with the project. This is the first show on PBS
4:37
Speaker 1: Kids that has an autistic lead now there have been
4:40
Speaker 1: characters like Julia and Sesame Street, but it's different when
4:44
Speaker 1: it's it's just there that this is the lead, and
4:48
Speaker 1: it's not like here's a character we introduced to kind
4:51
Speaker 1: of represent It simply is a group of friends and
4:56
Speaker 1: everyone is an individual, and their neuro diversity as a
5:01
Speaker 1: group of friends is what makes them so strong. And
5:04
Speaker 1: so I helped him initially and didn't hear for a while,
5:09
Speaker 1: and then was that the two years ago, got back
5:11
Speaker 1: in touch and they'd been given the green light by
5:13
Speaker 1: PBS Kids, and so I signed on as an advisor.
5:17
Speaker 1: And there are two other advisors who are specifically autism advisors,
5:21
Speaker 1: like Stephen Chore And so what's so important about that is,
5:26
Speaker 1: you know, Stephen is not only you know, an expert,
5:29
Speaker 1: but he is also atistic himself. And that has been
5:32
Speaker 1: true of every stage of production. Many of our writers
5:36
Speaker 1: are autistic, and many of our young writers and so
5:39
Speaker 1: like there's a couple of young writers who I just
5:42
Speaker 1: love and it's so exciting because they're bringing their own
5:44
Speaker 1: childhood experiences to bear. I'm thinking about like two little details,
5:50
Speaker 1: you know, in one of them, it's what about toothpaste?
5:54
Speaker 1: And you know, it's actually Sheldon, and he runs out
5:56
Speaker 1: of his favorite kind of toothpaste and he's like, the
5:59
Speaker 1: texture is right, the flavor isn't right. And so Carl
6:02
Speaker 1: knows all about sensitivities and so he helps them create
6:05
Speaker 1: the checklist of like, Okay, we're going to try it
6:08
Speaker 1: all these kinds. We've got to check the flavor, we've
6:11
Speaker 1: got to check the texture and the foaminess right, because
6:13
Speaker 1: it has to be right. And there was another quick
6:15
Speaker 1: scene where I see every single iteration of every single script,
6:20
Speaker 1: which is so much fun. So from premise to the
6:23
Speaker 1: final draft, and I saw Carl was doing a jigsaw
6:27
Speaker 1: puzzle upside down. It's not an episode about puzzles, right,
6:31
Speaker 1: and so I put a question mark. So I'm just
6:34
Speaker 1: curious why, and they said, oh, you know, one of
6:37
Speaker 1: our you know, the writer had noted that they like
6:41
Speaker 1: to do puzzles upside down because it helps them focus
6:45
Speaker 1: not on the whole but on the piece. And so
6:47
Speaker 1: that was a hack. And then you know, that was
6:50
Speaker 1: like one of those tiny authentic things that you know,
6:54
Speaker 1: if all of the writers were a nuerrotypical, that wouldn't
6:57
Speaker 1: be in there. So from the writers to the advice
7:00
Speaker 1: to producers to animators. I feel in so many ways
7:05
Speaker 1: like this team, which is so incredible, I love them
7:07
Speaker 1: so much, is doing what the show is trying to do,
7:10
Speaker 1: which is show how neurotypical and neurodivergent kids can actually
7:16
Speaker 1: strengthen each other and learn from each other and create
7:19
Speaker 1: a more beautiful world by drawing on each other's strengths
7:22
Speaker 1: and learning from each other. And I feel like the
7:24
Speaker 1: production process has mimic that and the result is an absolutely,
7:30
Speaker 1: I think beautiful show. I'm so proud that the show
7:33
Speaker 1: is out there in the world.
7:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so charming too, Like it just draws you in,
7:39
Speaker 2: and you know, there's so many magical pieces. I think
7:43
Speaker 2: you're talking about a lot of the magic behind the scenes.
7:46
Speaker 2: I think that the illustration style even is pretty magical.
7:50
Speaker 2: It's different than what you normally see.
7:53
Speaker 1: The color scheme, the music is kind of retro it's
7:57
Speaker 1: really kind of soothing. And again there's that piece of
8:01
Speaker 1: like it sensory sensitive, right, we don't have transitions that
8:05
Speaker 1: are jarring, and so it's designed to be a place
8:09
Speaker 1: where people can learn, enjoy, laugh, and also see themselves
8:13
Speaker 1: and their friends or their children or their parents represent
8:16
Speaker 1: it in the show.
8:18
Speaker 2: In a positive way too, you know, taking what Carl
8:22
Speaker 2: or his friends might be struggling with and finding the
8:28
Speaker 2: help with the friend or the reason why they are
8:31
Speaker 2: doing things a certain way or whatever it is. It
8:33
Speaker 2: just sort of normalizes for kids who are watching, whether
8:37
Speaker 2: they are neurodiversent or not. They I'm sure know another
8:42
Speaker 2: kid who is right, And that's part of I think
8:45
Speaker 2: what's beautiful is it appeals to every kid, and those
8:49
Speaker 2: who aren't neurodivergent are still going to get something out
8:51
Speaker 2: of it and still change the experience of the neurodivergent
8:55
Speaker 2: kids by having the neurotypical ones watching.
8:59
Speaker 1: And that's one thing I love about the show is
9:01
Speaker 1: that there's so many pieces that are integrated in that
9:04
Speaker 1: aren't drawn attention to just normalize. Like, you know, Carl
9:08
Speaker 1: has a fingerstem and he does that both when he's
9:10
Speaker 1: nervous and you can see with his eyes, but also
9:12
Speaker 1: when he's excited, and Lata has a tail stem and
9:16
Speaker 1: there's nobody telling them to, you know, stop, hold still
9:21
Speaker 1: or keep your fingers still. There's it, so it's there.
9:24
Speaker 1: It's never mentioned, that word has not come up, but
9:27
Speaker 1: it's it's literally part of the animation. You can see
9:30
Speaker 1: if you google behind the scenes Carl, you know, you
9:33
Speaker 1: can see the animation where it's like stem one, Stem two,
9:36
Speaker 1: Stem three right that they have kind of pre programmed,
9:39
Speaker 1: and so these pieces are just there and Sheldon being
9:42
Speaker 1: this kind of wingman, he will see, you know, Carl
9:45
Speaker 1: might start getting overwhelmed by sensory input and we'll walk away,
9:49
Speaker 1: and he's like, at one point he says, you know,
9:52
Speaker 1: he's in his Carl zone right now. I'll go check
9:54
Speaker 1: on him in a minute, like he just he knows.
9:56
Speaker 1: And there's there's this trampoline that Carl often uses, you know,
9:59
Speaker 1: when he needs to get his energy out. And you know,
10:02
Speaker 1: my son has been a bouncer his whole life, Like
10:04
Speaker 1: he just bounces all the time right now is a
10:07
Speaker 1: yoga ball, even at eleven, and he's always bouncing. And
10:10
Speaker 1: he has a spot inside the couch cushions, which is
10:14
Speaker 1: if he, you know, is really anxious about something, he
10:16
Speaker 1: goes and gets kind of the pressure on his body.
10:19
Speaker 1: And you have his mom, who you know, sees it
10:21
Speaker 1: as a tell of just says, oh, you know, you're
10:23
Speaker 1: in your cozy couch spot. Is everything okay? And so
10:29
Speaker 1: it's it's not trying to draw alarmed to any of these. Really,
10:34
Speaker 1: you know, normal behaviors, self soothing, regulatory behaviors. But just
10:38
Speaker 1: acknowledge that, you know, everybody has something that they do,
10:42
Speaker 1: and it seems like we only want to kind of
10:45
Speaker 1: stamp out the ones that don't fall within, you know,
10:48
Speaker 1: a very rigid norm. And this is a show that
10:52
Speaker 1: explodes that in the most beautiful way because it's just
10:56
Speaker 1: part of it.
10:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just part of life. Take a deep breath
11:05
Speaker 2: in and slowly let it out. Pause for a moment
11:13
Speaker 2: and allow yourself thirty seconds of stillness. Breathe with me.
11:18
Speaker 2: Gently close your eyes. If you can, breathe in deeply,
11:24
Speaker 2: hold and exhale, releasing any tension. Feel the tension melt
11:34
Speaker 2: away from your shoulders and neck as a soothing chrom
11:38
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Speaker 2: yourself the gift of deep relaxation. The connection sounds amazing too,
12:42
Speaker 2: the connection between the characters. You know, clearly there is
12:47
Speaker 2: a deep friendship, deep between these characters, and I think
12:52
Speaker 2: kids need to see that these days more than ever maybe,
12:55
Speaker 2: and that you know, you can be different and still
12:58
Speaker 2: have connection because we are all so different, and it
13:03
Speaker 2: feels like it's just really nurturing the idea of connecting
13:09
Speaker 2: in whatever way happens. I don't know how to say
13:13
Speaker 2: that any differently, but like you know, we think, oh, well,
13:16
Speaker 2: if they're like me, then we should be friends. But
13:20
Speaker 2: a lot of times the opposites are what are the
13:24
Speaker 2: most connected because you fill in the links for each
13:27
Speaker 2: other and you allow space for the things that are
13:29
Speaker 2: different from you.
13:30
Speaker 1: And they wonder at each other. They like they're amazed
13:33
Speaker 1: by a lot of music skills, you know, Carl's collections
13:37
Speaker 1: that are not only super cool, they come in really handy, right,
13:40
Speaker 1: like there's this great episode where Nico's very upset that
13:43
Speaker 1: people keep mixing her and a rugle up, so she
13:45
Speaker 1: borrows his wig collection and then his mustache collection, thinking
13:49
Speaker 1: if I just get a rugled to wear a mustache
13:50
Speaker 1: all the time. And you know, there's just these moments
13:54
Speaker 1: where like they need something and Carl has it right,
13:57
Speaker 1: like he's it's almost like I got the toolkit ready
14:00
Speaker 1: to go. And then you also see that a lot
14:03
Speaker 1: of the strategies that Carl has learned, and you know,
14:06
Speaker 1: a little nod to the adults nome So Carl lives
14:09
Speaker 1: with his mother, Maud, and his father, Harold, lives in
14:12
Speaker 1: the city. So we've got Harold and Maud, which only
14:15
Speaker 1: a certain generation will pick up on. And they're wonderful
14:19
Speaker 1: both parents, right, and so you know when he goes
14:21
Speaker 1: and spends the weekends with his dad. But there's always
14:24
Speaker 1: this sense that it is mostly the kids solving problems together,
14:29
Speaker 1: which makes it kind of your step up from Daniel Tiger,
14:32
Speaker 1: where like the adults come in with a strategy song,
14:34
Speaker 1: but the parents are there providing kind of this underbearing
14:38
Speaker 1: watchfulness when they need it. And but what you do
14:42
Speaker 1: see is a lot of the kids drawing on lessons
14:46
Speaker 1: they've learned from the adults in their life. And so,
14:49
Speaker 1: for example, there's this great one called Lemonade Stand and
14:51
Speaker 1: Carl's so excited. He has a checklist. He's super into
14:54
Speaker 1: checklist and he loves sharing all of his facts that
14:56
Speaker 1: he has, and all he needs is one Sheldon. And Sheldon,
14:59
Speaker 1: it turns out, is terrified of lemons because he was
15:01
Speaker 1: squirted by a lemon when he was little, and so
15:04
Speaker 1: he can't figure out what to do, and his mom's
15:06
Speaker 1: talking to him and she says, you remember what it
15:09
Speaker 1: was like when you were afraid of you know, this
15:11
Speaker 1: toad that was in the yard. And he thinks through
15:14
Speaker 1: and he remembers kind of how he had this you know,
15:17
Speaker 1: what it took for him to overcome that fear, and
15:19
Speaker 1: so he goes and uses and kind of almost creates
15:22
Speaker 1: this intervention for Sheldon, which is, you know, super like
15:27
Speaker 1: it's like you're not ready to touch yet, I get it.
15:29
Speaker 1: I'm not going to push you. But eventually, you know,
15:32
Speaker 1: he ends up getting the goggles from his collection so
15:34
Speaker 1: that you know, Sheldon can't get squirted in the eye,
15:37
Speaker 1: and he makes the accommodations and modifications that Sheldon needs
15:42
Speaker 1: to be successful. And so that's the other piece I
15:46
Speaker 1: like is it's not about the neurotypical kids being understanding
15:50
Speaker 1: and helping. It's they're all just legitly amazing friends who
15:55
Speaker 1: are the back and forth. You know, there's an episode
15:58
Speaker 1: later where you know, you see there's something that scares Nico,
16:02
Speaker 1: who doesn't like to show fear, and it's a lot
16:05
Speaker 1: of who quietly steps in to help her with it,
16:08
Speaker 1: you know, deal with her anxiety because a lot of
16:10
Speaker 1: has a whole lot of experience and has built up
16:12
Speaker 1: her toolbox and you know with practice in a way
16:15
Speaker 1: that you know Nico, with her bravado, hasn't built up.
16:19
Speaker 1: And so you see that that give and take, and
16:22
Speaker 1: it's it's so lovely.
16:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just sounds like it really is about being
16:28
Speaker 2: human more than about having different labels and diagnoses and
16:34
Speaker 2: all of these things. And I think that's what we need.
16:37
Speaker 2: I think that creates a foundation for acceptance and for
16:42
Speaker 2: not dwelling on it. Right. They love Carl for car
16:46
Speaker 2: all and it's okay, how different he is or whatever,
16:50
Speaker 2: But I love this idea too that you're talking about,
16:52
Speaker 2: where they're problem solving. It's not the adults coming in
16:57
Speaker 2: and solving their problems. Their problem solving. They are using
17:00
Speaker 2: their strengths to back each other up and to figure
17:04
Speaker 2: it out, and we certainly need more of that right now.
17:08
Speaker 2: I think we've gotten so far away from letting kids
17:12
Speaker 2: do things on their own. And I'm super guilty of
17:15
Speaker 2: it too, because I'm just to get it done kind
17:18
Speaker 2: of person, like let's do this and get on with it,
17:20
Speaker 2: or let's talk about this and move on. And it
17:23
Speaker 2: made me solve their problems for them, which was, you know,
17:28
Speaker 2: not the greatest way to parent now, I know, but
17:31
Speaker 2: like parents who might be in the room with their
17:33
Speaker 2: kids when they're watching, I think we'll get these little
17:37
Speaker 2: nuggets of wisdom and ways to parent or ways to
17:42
Speaker 2: let their kids be kids. Maybe we should say, yeah.
17:45
Speaker 1: I really agree. I mean, one thing I really appreciate
17:47
Speaker 1: about Maud is that, and this is something I've worked
17:51
Speaker 1: on a lot in the scripts, is really focusing on
17:54
Speaker 1: reflective listening. Right She's just she's there, she pays attention
17:58
Speaker 1: to him when she sees that. You know, he does
18:01
Speaker 1: need a step in every once in a while for
18:03
Speaker 1: doing some belly breathing or were charging his batteries. Or
18:07
Speaker 1: he doesn't understand why somebody's mad. Every once in a
18:09
Speaker 1: while go home and say, I think Nico's anatomy and
18:11
Speaker 1: I don't know why, And so she's like, okay, so
18:13
Speaker 1: tell me what happened. And so is helping process some
18:15
Speaker 1: of the social intrivacies that he, you know, he might
18:19
Speaker 1: have missed. And he's like, oh, okay, I get that
18:22
Speaker 1: she might think this. I'm and the like, now I've
18:24
Speaker 1: got a mom, I'm going to go talk to her.
18:26
Speaker 1: I'm going to go apologize. So, you know, mad never
18:28
Speaker 1: solves the problems. Mod helps him talk through when he
18:33
Speaker 1: needs to, and is again just so understanding of kind
18:37
Speaker 1: of the self regulation things. But there's this great episode
18:41
Speaker 1: that will come out later in the season, which is
18:43
Speaker 1: a flashback episode two when he was four and then
18:48
Speaker 1: go to museum and he's having a meltdown and she
18:52
Speaker 1: is too, like she's struggling, and you get the sense
18:55
Speaker 1: of like, by the end of she's like, we've both
18:57
Speaker 1: learned a lot of strategy since then, right, Like she's
18:59
Speaker 1: having a heart to accepting help from another parent who's
19:02
Speaker 1: offering it because she's feeling a little embarrassed. And so
19:06
Speaker 1: you see almost this growth that she's gone through with Carl,
19:09
Speaker 1: that you know that all parents go through. It doesn't
19:11
Speaker 1: matter like who you're giving, Like, you know, I'm a
19:14
Speaker 1: much better parent now that I was when my kids
19:16
Speaker 1: were three. But then they come up with new challenges
19:19
Speaker 1: and then I'm like, I'm starting over again, right, so,
19:22
Speaker 1: like I'm growing with my kids. And you see some
19:25
Speaker 1: of that too, which I just find lovely, Like it's
19:28
Speaker 1: very much centered on the kids, but there's so many
19:31
Speaker 1: good nuggets for adults, and I think even for teachers,
19:34
Speaker 1: Like there are moments where you know, Carl will explain
19:38
Speaker 1: how he's thinking, or there's a great episode on making
19:41
Speaker 1: something more sensory friendlier performance. And with the friends who
19:46
Speaker 1: say this isn't fair, like Lota and Carl couldn't watch
19:49
Speaker 1: this because they got overwhelmed. That doesn't feel fair to us.
19:52
Speaker 1: How can we make a you know, an assembly that
19:55
Speaker 1: is fair for everybody and everybody can enjoy it, so
19:59
Speaker 1: there's an equity. He's there too, that's very organic. I'm
20:02
Speaker 1: just so happy to see this here and some of
20:04
Speaker 1: the feat I've been you know, kind of going online
20:06
Speaker 1: seeing what people think of it, and I've been delighted
20:08
Speaker 1: to see the number of autistic adults who are saying like,
20:12
Speaker 1: I love this and I wish this were around when
20:14
Speaker 1: I was a kid.
20:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, representation is everything, plus like just helping people understand
20:21
Speaker 2: what it's like to have autism, what it's like to
20:25
Speaker 2: have anxiety, you know, all of these different things. We
20:29
Speaker 2: don't understand them unless we experience them or we see them,
20:33
Speaker 2: and that's I think one of the real bank reasons
20:37
Speaker 2: why it's so important that they're represented is just the
20:40
Speaker 2: understanding that comes out of that for people who just
20:42
Speaker 2: don't know, and then what can come from that understanding
20:46
Speaker 2: is pretty amazing. I was just imagining too, as you
20:49
Speaker 2: were talking, like having teachers play these episodes and have
20:53
Speaker 2: discussions about them, like in school in class, use it
20:59
Speaker 2: for social emotional learning, use it for social skills, you know,
21:03
Speaker 2: so many things. If you have an autistic student in
21:05
Speaker 2: your class, how different might their experience be if you're
21:10
Speaker 2: using this to educate the kids on that.
21:12
Speaker 1: I've actually already sent clips different school counselors in my life,
21:15
Speaker 1: and they're getting very excited because you know, one of
21:18
Speaker 1: the great things about PBS shows is every single episode
21:21
Speaker 1: has a curriculum behind it, and so that's why I
21:23
Speaker 1: call me a curriculum adviser. So there's a big idea
21:26
Speaker 1: for the episode and it you know, it may be
21:28
Speaker 1: that everyone's afraid of something, but when you know you
21:31
Speaker 1: can stop and look, it's you know, there's there's like
21:34
Speaker 1: one sentence that underpins it, and then there's a curriculum
21:37
Speaker 1: and then the writers choose from those and they create
21:40
Speaker 1: a story that shows it without being too didactic, right,
21:44
Speaker 1: without like marketting over the head too much, but it's there. So,
21:48
Speaker 1: you know, the one where they are, you know, Carl's learning.
21:52
Speaker 1: It's not we love PBS kids right now, he's learning
21:54
Speaker 1: about how to be a better listener because his friends
21:57
Speaker 1: are complaining, one of them that he wasn't listening and
21:59
Speaker 1: it's like why are people saying that? And so Charlton's like, oh,
22:03
Speaker 1: I have this problem too, but like my mom helped
22:06
Speaker 1: me with like two strategies, and so he like they
22:09
Speaker 1: do this coaching, and you know, one of the pieces
22:11
Speaker 1: of coaching is like and so make eye contact with
22:13
Speaker 1: a person speaking, and Cross says that can actually doesn't
22:17
Speaker 1: always feel good to me, and charl is like, great, okay,
22:20
Speaker 1: no eye contact, but maybe just turn your body toward them.
22:23
Speaker 1: And it's just one of those quick moments where you know,
22:27
Speaker 1: and it's not just you know, kids who are autistic
22:29
Speaker 1: who troubled eye contact. You maybe a kid who is introverted,
22:33
Speaker 1: who has some social anxiety, who for whatever reason, making
22:36
Speaker 1: eye contact makes them less able to listen because it
22:40
Speaker 1: creates a level of anxiety. So they might be a
22:42
Speaker 1: better listener if they are turned, but not necessarily making
22:47
Speaker 1: eye contact. And you know, that's one of those little
22:50
Speaker 1: subtle things that I think if you have people in
22:53
Speaker 1: your life that you know this to be true, but
22:55
Speaker 1: there's a lot of adults who still insist upon it, right,
22:59
Speaker 1: Like you have to look at me in or you're
23:00
Speaker 1: not listening. And that's just those are the small things
23:04
Speaker 1: that I think can help us, like just build understanding.
23:08
Speaker 2: Change the world, Carl can change the world, honestly, Like
23:14
Speaker 2: you know, we're just you're showing so much of real
23:19
Speaker 2: life for so many people, and even if you're neurotypical,
23:23
Speaker 2: it is real life now. To know kids who are
23:26
Speaker 2: on the spectrum, to know kids who have ADHD, to
23:29
Speaker 2: know kids who are anxious, right, like, those populations are
23:32
Speaker 2: growing and we need to form kind of community around them,
23:39
Speaker 2: kind around them but with them, I guess would be
23:42
Speaker 2: a better way to say it. Yeah, and it's just all,
23:44
Speaker 2: it's all giving me the biggest warm funds that ease
23:46
Speaker 2: I've had in a long time, because, like you know,
23:50
Speaker 2: my kids are young adults now. My son did not
23:53
Speaker 2: see anybody who represented him. He you know, had been
23:58
Speaker 2: the kid that kids were making fun of throughout his
24:01
Speaker 2: school years and all of these things, and I think, wow,
24:04
Speaker 2: if he had seen somebody that he felt was like him,
24:08
Speaker 2: even if it was an illustrated character, it would have
24:12
Speaker 2: made a difference for him. But it also would have
24:14
Speaker 2: made a difference for the kids around him and how
24:18
Speaker 2: they maybe embraced him or included him, or even were
24:21
Speaker 2: helpful sometimes, right, And you know, he did have one
24:25
Speaker 2: or two of those friends, But if the whole, the
24:28
Speaker 2: majority of our kids' communities were more embracing and just
24:33
Speaker 2: even getting it a little bit, it makes a monumental difference.
24:39
Speaker 2: So it can be so powerful.
24:41
Speaker 1: I agree, And I think it one of my favorite
24:43
Speaker 1: episodes that's available right now for streaming. So if your
24:46
Speaker 1: listeners want just kind of tune into one, there's one
24:48
Speaker 1: called a Whole Lot a Lot of and this is
24:51
Speaker 1: the one where the friends. They can sense that something's
24:53
Speaker 1: wrong and she, you know, it's like I wish She's
24:57
Speaker 1: very poignant. She said, sometimes I wish I lived on
24:59
Speaker 1: a differ from planet. And you know, and she called
25:03
Speaker 1: no noisier right because it's very it's not too much noise.
25:07
Speaker 1: And then you know, she explains that somebody after school
25:10
Speaker 1: had been calling your headphone girl and it's really bothering her,
25:14
Speaker 1: and so, you know, and and Carols says, oh, I
25:16
Speaker 1: understand what that's like. You know, when I was a
25:19
Speaker 1: couple of years ago in school, some people call me
25:21
Speaker 1: the autistic kid and I hated it because I'm much
25:23
Speaker 1: more than that. And so and it's just like it's
25:26
Speaker 1: so real. It's just there, like these are just kids
25:28
Speaker 1: talking to each other. I feel like sometimes we kind
25:31
Speaker 1: of almost kind of want to bubble wrap the conversation.
25:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not.
25:34
Speaker 1: It's just kids saying if I don't like it, like somebody,
25:37
Speaker 1: you know, someone's teasing me. And so, you know, a
25:40
Speaker 1: lot is like, so what did you do? And then
25:42
Speaker 1: you can see the troubleshooting that happens and then the
25:44
Speaker 1: growth that happens as she ends up talking to this
25:47
Speaker 1: kid who spoilerlerd ends up becoming a friend of hers.
25:51
Speaker 1: You know, so it's it's a it's a beautiful episode.
25:54
Speaker 1: But I remember I watched it with the kids a
25:55
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, and my husband said, who's a
25:58
Speaker 1: career educator? I've never seen an episode like that adult
26:02
Speaker 1: or children's television, Like it's just it's it's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah,
26:08
Speaker 1: I'm hoping everybody tunes in because I want a second season.
26:11
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure, I think that that's going to happen.
26:14
Speaker 2: I just feel like, even only watching a couple minutes
26:18
Speaker 2: of it so far, how could you not. I mean,
26:21
Speaker 2: kids are going to get so attached to these characters
26:24
Speaker 2: and invested in what happens to them. As you were
26:29
Speaker 2: just talking, I wrote down the word growth like a
26:32
Speaker 2: millisecond before you said it, because what you were describing, like,
26:37
Speaker 2: you know, we want to wrap our kids and baba rap.
26:39
Speaker 2: We want to protect them. It's our instinct. But if
26:42
Speaker 2: we do that too much, they can't grow. They can't
26:45
Speaker 2: learn from things that happened to them. So as much
26:48
Speaker 2: as we wish that no kid ever got bullied, it
26:51
Speaker 2: does happen. And this is the way that you can
26:54
Speaker 2: grow from it. You know and just yeah, there's so
26:58
Speaker 2: many things going on there.
26:59
Speaker 1: There's so many and then Carl's able to use that
27:02
Speaker 1: experience to like help a friend, right Like it's like
27:05
Speaker 1: he's able to be like, Okay, I did this, and
27:08
Speaker 1: now I'm going to use it to help you because
27:10
Speaker 1: you know, it's this great moment of empathy, like bonding
27:13
Speaker 1: over is like it doesn't that's terrible that it's happening,
27:16
Speaker 1: but it is real and they're able to like and
27:18
Speaker 1: she so appreciates having a friend who is able to
27:21
Speaker 1: empathize in that way.
27:23
Speaker 2: I'm imagining an adult filled Carl the Collector watch party
27:28
Speaker 2: right now with cookies and popcorn. I don't know, like
27:33
Speaker 2: I just I mean, I feel some relief as a
27:36
Speaker 2: parent of a neurodiversion kid talking to you about this,
27:40
Speaker 2: even though my kid is an adult, Like I do
27:42
Speaker 2: this work for all the other kids too, And I
27:46
Speaker 2: feel relief that Carl is out there in the world
27:49
Speaker 2: right now. I think it's really going to make a difference.
27:51
Speaker 2: And I'm I'm so just grateful for all of you
27:55
Speaker 2: that have worked on it and how magical it is,
27:59
Speaker 2: how magical I think it's going to be. We want
28:01
Speaker 2: to tell everybody where they can watch, and then where
28:04
Speaker 2: they can find you as well.
28:06
Speaker 1: So anywhere you watch PBS Kids. My local station is
28:09
Speaker 1: WGBH and it comes on at eight thirty every morning,
28:12
Speaker 1: but it's streaming on Amazon the PBS app. There'll be
28:15
Speaker 1: games that are going to be released as well, and
28:18
Speaker 1: so right now I think there are thirteen or fourteen
28:21
Speaker 1: episodes that are available to watch. Really, there's so many
28:24
Speaker 1: different streaming platforms you can watch it on, and you
28:27
Speaker 1: can find me on all the social channels. Just look
28:29
Speaker 1: for Parenthood three six.
28:31
Speaker 2: Five awesome and I will link all of that up
28:33
Speaker 2: in the show notes for everyone as well. And those
28:36
Speaker 2: show notes are at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot Com
28:39
Speaker 2: Slash two nine to two for episode two hundred and
28:42
Speaker 2: ninety two. Thank you so much for tunny here, Deborah
28:46
Speaker 2: and giving.
28:46
Speaker 1: Us ye for letting me talk about this on.
28:48
Speaker 2: Some of your passion. I know, like I just want
28:51
Speaker 2: to hang up and go watch Carl. Now. I will
28:53
Speaker 2: watch one this evening, curiously.
28:55
Speaker 1: Let you get the cup of tea and binge watch Carl.
28:58
Speaker 1: Promise you'll feel better.
28:59
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, TV is my wind down at the end
29:03
Speaker 2: of the day anyway, So I'm just gonna put Carl
29:04
Speaker 2: in my rotation and every night I'm gonna have a
29:07
Speaker 2: little dose. Maybe I can get my kiddo to watch
29:10
Speaker 2: it with me, and he's excited about that stuff too,
29:12
Speaker 2: even as a young adult. He gets so happy when
29:15
Speaker 2: things like this happen and he sees himself represented in places,
29:19
Speaker 2: so it's just amazing. Thank you with that, I'll see
29:23
Speaker 2: everybody on the next episode. Take good care. Thanks for
29:27
Speaker 2: joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed
29:31
Speaker 2: this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't forget to
29:34
Speaker 2: check out my online courses and parent coaching at PARENTINGADHD
29:39
Speaker 2: and Autism dot com and at the Behavior Revolution dot com.