Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Over 56 Years in the Elevator Industry and Still Loving the Work | Joel Frohlinger

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Over 56 Years in the Elevator Industry and Still Loving the Work | Joel Frohlinger · The Elevator Careers Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: If you're young and you have a good worth work ethic, you can't beat the elevator industry.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a great place to grow up and it's a great place to learn, and you'll wind up with lifelong friends.
0:13
SPEAKER_02: I just I just love this industry.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: There's nothing more I can say.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Matt Allred.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Today our guest is Joel Frolinger.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Joel grew up in an elevator family in New York City and is a proud graduate of the University of Oklahoma.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Joel has worked in the elevator industry for over 56 years.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: He started as a helper, ran Able Elevator for 34 years, and still works as a consultant for Monitor Elevator, part of Innovation Industries.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Joel loves the work he does and the wonderful people who have become lifelong friends.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Joel, welcome to the show.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to talk to you.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: It was great to uh meet you at the NAEC conference just a few weeks ago.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think you've been running busy ever since.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: It's been hectic since then.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: I feel the same way.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Having having had a couple events after that, being gone, I feel like I've been gone for a month now, but I'm I'm excited to talk today.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And and I love asking the question, how did you get started in the elevator business?
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh I was actually born into the elevator industry.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: My grandfather was an elevator mechanic, my father was an elevator mechanic.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: My grandfather started in the elevator industry in 1929.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: So it's been a long family history for me.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Family reunions are probably all about the business.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Did it's uh all about the business.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: I even married an elevator mechanic's daughter.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: So did you feel like you had a choice growing up, or or was it just what I was gonna do?
2:13
SPEAKER_02: I worked in the shop as a kid, and when I went away to school, I decided I was not going into the elevator industry.
2:22
unknown: Right.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: I moved out to California and went into retail, and that lasted about two years.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't making enough money.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: So how did you end up getting in that?
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Excuse me.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I just said, How did you end up?
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Did you end up just calling your dad and saying, Hey, you know, I'm ready to no?
2:44
SPEAKER_02: Actually, my grandfather came out to California and said, Your father's gonna sell the business if you don't come back.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: So I came back.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so tell me about this family business.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Sounds like uh grandpa and dad were both in it, is that right?
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes, they actually started their own company in 1944, and they started installing elevator gates and doors, and my grandfather made them for years and years and years, so he ran a shop manufacturing elevator gates and elevated doors and elevator cabs.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Awesome, and that's how I got into it.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: So you joined the family business and um how how long ago was that, if I may?
3:28
SPEAKER_02: 1972.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever think, man, I should go back to California and and get back into retail?
3:36
SPEAKER_02: At that point, I never looked back and it was all it was all uphill.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Never looked back.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: What is it that you love most about the industry?
3:46
SPEAKER_02: I like the camaraderie and I like the friendship.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, people in this industry all work together.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: There's, I mean, it's don't get me wrong, there's a lot of competition and a lot of competitiveness, but everybody's still friendly.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: And if you need a hand and you need help, people will come and help you.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: I've been in spots where like we ran out of material and our competitor would lend us material until we had till we got a shipment and paid them back.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and honestly, that's one of the things I love, and that really uh I guess motivated me to start talking with people like you because um in the other industries I've worked in, there was no such thing as camaraderie, especially between competitors, it just didn't exist.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: And so to find it in the elevator industry to me is uh is fascinating, but it's um it's the reason I love it so much.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: It's like one big family.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, everybody knows everybody else, especially I'm in the New York area, and we probably have one of the largest elevator communities in the country, probably in the world, right?
4:56
SPEAKER_02: And you know, New York City is elevator elevator city.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's a lot of people here, and everybody knows everyone else, and everybody's good with each other, so sure, sure.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, and even even in your even in your family, you got people that are gonna be cranky and honory, and there's there's always that.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but there's still still good friendships in this industry, yeah.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: There are small companies that use larger companies to do installations for them, and they get it at a very discounted rate so that they can still be competitive in the market and do like major projects where they normally wouldn't be able to do them.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: So, so tell me, how long did you run the family business?
5:46
SPEAKER_02: I was my dad left in 1978, and I've been doing it ever since.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: So, and actually, I did an employee buyout in 2006.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and then I started working for innovation industries after that.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: So um, that's a long time.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: So you said 72 is when you started, that's like 50 years.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: I actually was a local three helper in 1966, and I actually went into the I when I worked for somebody else, my dad wouldn't let me come into the business until I worked somewhere else.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Learning probably a good idea, right?
6:29
SPEAKER_02: Learning the field.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I worked outside, worked for the in the in the shaft.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, and so you you still continue to work, like you say, for innovation.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think your your card says you're a consultant.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: Tell me what you do.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: I basically answer questions from outside salespeople and from inside sales when something comes up that they're not completely comfortable with.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: And if there's an issue with a job, I'll go take a look at it.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: And also I'll handle customer complaints because sometimes you just need someone that can talk them off a ledge.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: So actually, really off the edge of the shaft.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: But that's pretty much what I do as a consultant, you know, just talk to people, yeah.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Answer emails from in in-house, usually.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Right now, you told me uh that you had tried to retire at what one point and were talked out of it.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: What was that?
7:30
SPEAKER_02: I just put in my retirement papers and they suggested that I stay on as a consultant to do exactly that, to just answer questions and you know, help people along.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Because I know so many people and I've come a long way with a lot of companies.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and if there's an issue and a new guy or someone in there does not know the person, I can always reach out and give a hand.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: It's just well, and and to your point, giving a hand is is really what to me, what what a lot of what makes the the industry special.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Somebody reaches out and says, Hey, you know, can you help me with this?
8:08
SPEAKER_00: And and they don't have to be from your company.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: I have no problem talking to anyone, whether it's a competitor, uh a co-worker, a customer, a supplier, anyone.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: And if I need to go out on a job site, which I have not done recently, I try and uh do it.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: So let's let's back up just a little bit, you know, starting kind of fresh, if you will, out of retail, you're done with school, you're starting with a family business.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And what were some of the most important moves or decisions or things you learned as you were kind of getting your getting your feet wet in the industry?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: The most important things I learned over time is to just to work safely.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: So many guys take shortcuts, and that's usually how accidents happen, and bad things wind up falling into a bad place.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: So safety and safety education is where it's at, and just general education.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: There have been three elevator schools that have developed since I have been in this industry, and it's terrific that young people can get a start and actually learn in class as well as in field, because you don't get out of the elevator school unless you have a certain amount of time in the field as well as in the classroom.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: So, and safety is a big part of that education.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: You said you you learn to work safely where there are issues or or things that that that scared you a little bit.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh yeah, I need to slow down a little bit.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you should always have your equipment checked.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes even if you check your equipment, it doesn't always pan out.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's you know, I've I was involved in an elevator accident early on, and it taught me to really pay attention to what's going on.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: And it was something that was unavoidable.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And then there are those, right?
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there are.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, who were some of your biggest mentors?
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it sounds like obviously your family was part of my grandfather for sure.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, his work ethic was impeccable.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: He was an iron worker originally, and he got into the elevator industry during the depression because there was no work for him.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: And the only job he could get was working for an elevator company building elevator platforms, and he changed his whole life around and be went into an industry that he knew nothing about.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, the rest is history.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure he never looked back, right?
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Once he got in, he realized he was in a good spot.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: He was in a great spot, and you know, he had his he wanted always wanted his own own business.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: And my father got out of the army after the war, and they started their own business.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: So they started it together, and it sounds like your grandpa had already left the business when you showed up, as far as actually working in it, or was he still?
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, he was active until the day he died in 1979.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: Wow, he was he worked in the shop until he was 84 years old.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So incredible.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty incredible.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: Unlike my father, who did the opposite and walked away at 53.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: That's why I was so young when I started as actually a business owner.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: So he uh once he felt like you had the reins, he's like, Hey, I'm I'm gonna he didn't even know I had the reins.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: I was still working out in the field and he decided he was leaving.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: Once his father had passed, he decided he couldn't stay anymore.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he said, Are you ready?
12:05
SPEAKER_02: I said, I guess so.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: And that's how I became an actual operator of an elevator company.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: So so you went from working in the field one day to basically being the president of the company the next.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, more like the uh the chief operating officer.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Basically, I ran the daily operations of the company.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: So he was still the president.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I got you.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: Even though he was away, an absentee president, he was still the president.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he became very involved in national elevator politics.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: He was was on the uh board of the National Association of Elevator Contractors, and he was remained active in the industry, but not in the business.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: So, what were some of the skills?
12:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, part of the part of this uh point of this podcast is to talk about um, you know, elevator careers.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like you really had a couple different careers in the industry from being out in the field, you know, and then coming in the office, very different world.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious, what were some of the skills you had to pick up to be able to run the business?
13:18
SPEAKER_02: I had to learn how to lay out jobs and dispatch the right guys for the right job.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: And being in the field, working all those years out in all those years, it was a total of seven years out in the field, but you really learn a lot of how much time it requires for specific jobs, uh, what materials are needed for specific jobs, and the best way to approach it.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: So when I went into the office, I had to look at everything from the perspective of doing the work as well as the perspective of the most efficient way to do it, plan it from the office.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: So that was that was a hard transition, but it seemed to work out pretty well.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: I did that for God 30 years.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: So actually 30 little bit, little bit more, 30 almost 36 years.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was it worked out very well for me.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: So did you did you have plans to uh to kind of bring you know members of your family in like your your dad had done with you, or my son, but he worked there for four years and then told me it was not for him, and I said that was fine.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: And that's when I decided I might want to sell the business.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: But the guys that worked for me were sons of the guys that worked for my father and grandfather.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: So we they wound up buying the business from me.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: We did an employee buyout, which basically was just a transfer of power, and they paid me off and it worked out very well.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And they're still in business, they're in Brooklyn now.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: That's that's awesome.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: So, really, New York has kind of been your your hub for all these years.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Have you do you travel much like different parts of the country in your current role?
15:19
SPEAKER_02: I traveled for innovation industries when I worked for them because I was an outside salesman.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: I'd go down to Virginia, go to Maryland, uh, go out to Oklahoma, go to Texas.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: And of course, I traveled for the NAEC conventions and for the seminars.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: And when there was a local seminar, I'd always attend it.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: And I would even give I would give classes on phones and buttons at different events.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: But uh I prefer not to be teaching, I'd rather just be talking in an informal setting.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: So more like more like troubleshooting or or kind of guiding someone through.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: So I'm a New Yorker and New Yorkers tend to talk fast.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: And at one of the naec educational seminars, I did a class on safety edges and communications equipment.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: And it was a two-hour class.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: And the people that attended the class would get credit toward their certification, right?
16:28
SPEAKER_02: They get two hours worth of educational credit.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, I ran through the whole program in about 50 minutes, and they were like, You can't do that.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: You got to go at least over an hour so these guys can get their credits.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: So I had to sit there and talk about other things for another 15 minutes.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: And most of it was just about the industry in New York.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, you could probably answer questions for those 15 minutes or or 50 more minutes for that matter.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there were inspectors that were in the audience, and they would they inspectors usually ask really hard, not hard questions, but questions that don't have an answer.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: Sure, more technical judgment time, intangible questions.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: So and I wasn't gonna, you know, make any uh give any opinions or judgments.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: So I got you, gotcha.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so you you've seen a lot.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: What would you say are some of the the biggest issues facing the industry today?
17:32
SPEAKER_02: New equipment and bringing new equipment and bringing all the old mechanics up to speed to install it and maintain it.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and also to get the building owners to pay for it because it's everything is just so expensive these days, right?
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit more about the new equipment.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like on one hand, you know, the the technology is different, the you know, there's a lot to learn about it because it it's always changing, and at the same time, a lot of mechanics are are retiring, so you're losing some of this knowledge, yes, about the older equipment, too.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: There's not as much old equipment around, okay, and modernized, in other words, and a lot of guys like me are still hanging around, so when there's a problem with old equipment, they get called in and ask questions.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: That's probably some of the most interesting consulting stuff I do.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: People will call me and say, you know, we've got this old, this old, old elevator, and it's still running, and we can't figure out how these doors work, we can't figure out how the machine is going, and you know, it's just talking them through.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, and from your perspective, maybe it's not that old, you know.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh from my perspective, it's old because if it's as old as I am, it's old.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's there's equipment out there that's hundreds of years old.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's elevators that were put in in the early 1900s that are still running in New York.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't know about in other cities, but we've got some pretty old stuff here.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I remember changing elevator gates that I knew were my grandfather's.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: And this was 30 years ago.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: And I was still out, I was still going out into the field and looking at stuff, and there were these old gates still working, and they were my grandfather's.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: And they were guys that had never seen the gates, old folding gates like that.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: Picture the old the old high-class buildings with the doorman and the elevator operator closing the gate.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: That's the kind of gates we made.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Now you say folding.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: I I'm envisioning something I've seen on like an old movie, and it's it's got like metal and it's like crisp crown, you know, exactly.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're talking about?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Exactly the type of gate.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: It it sounds like a safety issue.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could poke your hand through that.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: Ah, you could, but they didn't have inside doors at those in those days.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Hold on tight and don't keep it.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: But it's it's come a long way.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, elevator safety has really, really pushed through, and there's a lot fewer accidents now than there ever was.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, sure, sure.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: And I think we're one of the safest industries as well.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And I've been told that that uh certainly transportation-wise, that elevators are safe.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And we also are the probably busiest transportation industry because there are more miles traveled in elevators per year than there are on any other type of transportation.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: I knew there were more trips.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: I did not know there were more miles.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Think about how many times an elevator World Trade Center, 100 floors, right?
20:53
SPEAKER_02: 30 elevators going up and down a thousand times a day.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot of trips.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Travel.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: So so let's talk a little bit more about new equipment.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: You were just saying that that's that's a that's an issue.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not an issue, it's it's an it's a good thing.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: It's the issue is having the proper people to install it.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So so that kind of that kind of brings up one more, which is uh, you know, the talent and and finding the right people.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: It's at least from my perspective, it seems like there's always kind of a shortage of of good, you know, qualified people.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: It there always seems to be that way.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: There always seems to be not enough good people to do the right job, but with the right training, people can do the right things.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: So that's why education is so important.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: And local three and local one have a school.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh the NAEC has a school.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: There's another CET school in.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: In Westchester, called the it's just called the Elevator School.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: And is that the Elevator Learning Center?
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Elevator Learning Center, excuse me.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: And they do a lot of training up there.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the big manufacturers donate equipment so that they have the latest equipment to teach people on.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know that.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Do uh do you feel like there's an enough opportunities for education, or do you feel like that's still a little bit of a bottleneck when it comes to getting people up to speed?
22:33
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of opportunities.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Problem is a lot of guys don't want to go to school, they just want to make the big money that an elevator mechanic makes, but you still have to go to school and learn how to do it correctly.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's one of the things I hear a lot, especially on this this podcast, is that you know, as you learn, as you increase your knowledge and your skills, you become so much more valuable.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: And you can demand more money.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And the more education you go and the more certifications you go, usually your company will pay you.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh, sure.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: If you become a certified elevator mechanic, they're going to give you more money.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: So, or if they won't, the one around the corner probably will, right?
23:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's well.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: The problem is there are a lot of companies that non-union or non-safety conscious that will just hire guys to cover maintenance or to cover something, and they're not really qualified.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Fortunately, they're not that many outside of New York.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's mostly the major companies, and their people are all well trained.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Otis has a phenomenal training program.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: Tyson Krupp, Koney, Schindler.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: But in New York City, you've got a lot of small independents that hide in places that are just avoid the, I don't know, I guess avoid the education and avoid, they just want people that'll come in and fill their spots.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: And that's that bothers me.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, and it sounds like maybe they're hoping for you know, on-the-job training, which just means you know, you're gonna get exposed to it, but but sometimes that's you need on-the-job training as well.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: You need both.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: You really exactly can you know there are a lot of great mechanics that never went to school because the people they learned from were very, very well educated.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: But if you wind up with someone that's just uh gonna slide by, that's how you're gonna wind up being.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: What what advice would you give to somebody who's brand new to the industry and just starting out?
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Do your job, pay attention, watch what what your mechanic does, watch what people you supervise or around you do, and make sure you go to school.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Just keep your eyes open.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: What uh what advice would you give to maybe a new business owner?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, you walked into the family business years ago, and that's a different world than just hold on to your hat because it's not easy.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: Especially it's it's very difficult to start an elevator company.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: That's why a lot of the small, small elevator companies that are still in existence did the right thing all the way along.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: But if you're a new company, it's just I just I can't imagine trying to break into this industry.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like it's getting harder to I think it's getting very hard because there are so many big conglomerates now, all the small companies are being bought up one by one, and there are very few left out there.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: There's still plenty, but a lot fewer than there were when I started in the industry.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and so obviously the yeah, the competition gets gets more.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, are there any other things that would make it harder today than than say back in the the technology?
26:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just can't walk into it.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: Years ago, you could walk into an elevated motor room and it was a simple, it was a simple control board, it was a simple motor.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: Today everything is digital, it's all elect everything's electronically run.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: You've got LCD displays that tells that help to tell you what's wrong with the elevator, but if you don't know how to properly diagnose or use them, you're gonna really walk in and just have no idea what you're looking at.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: I think of people my my grandfather's time would walk into an elevator machine room today, I think they'd be astounded.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, everything is very, very much every very different.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: If you're not computer proficient, you're not gonna do very well either.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Because everything is computerized.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, it's become a lot more about the uh you know, the the electronics versus, I guess, the mechanics of the old days.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: Mechanics are the same.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you've got a motor, you've got cables, you've got an elevator, you got counterweights, and you got a control board.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: Except today, they're just so sophisticated that you really need the education to learn how to use them or repair them.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: If there's any uh advice you could give to like the industry overall, or if you could make wave your magic wand and say, Man, I sure would love to see this.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: What would that be?
27:53
SPEAKER_02: I'd love to see myself be young again and know what I know now.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: It's do do a few things differently, not many, but I think I would put more emphasis on the education and safety, which I did not do when I first started.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: So hit that earlier, sooner.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: How would that have changed your your career, your trajectory?
28:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't think it would have changed anything.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't think I would have been any less successful or any more successful.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: I think I just I may have done things differently.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: I may have proceeded a little bit slower.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: So it's not, I don't think it's it would change much.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: In my case.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: But just having that earlier on sounds like would have been a a wise move for you.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it would have been one thing I didn't do, which a lot of elevator companies I see happening, they grow too fast and they get too big too fast, and they can't control the amount of work that they have, and that their customers suffer for that.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Right, no, that's a good point, because it does seem like you know, having the right people is is really the limiting factor to that's the limiting factor to your growth.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: And so, if yeah, if you're taking out a bunch of accounts, and oh, we can't find the right mechanic to then so you load up your others, then or you wind up with substandard people covering things they should not be covering.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Do you see that occasionally?
29:38
SPEAKER_02: I see that a lot, and I've seen companies that have done that turn themselves around and just cut their business in half and survive.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: Wow, okay.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: When you get too big too fast, you wind up with too many bills that you can't pay.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: You wind up with big projects that you're in the middle of, and an elevator modernization project is very expensive, and you're the one laying out all the money for the materials, and you don't get paid until your progress is is moved at least halfway through.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: And then at the end, you're lucky if you get paid all your money.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, it just depends.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: It just depends.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: So the fact that you you've seen some you know cut their business back and survive means you've also seen some that maybe were a little too late and went out of business.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Yep, absolutely.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and a lot of those people are usually really talented people who think that they can start their own business and they wind up either going back to work for somebody else or not and or an asset to a company, but they have it, they've had an elevator company that failed.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: That's it's sad, but it happens, and I've seen it, and I can give you countless examples, but I won't.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: No, it's all good.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: What's um any any uh I guess parting wisdom you want to share for uh for our listeners as we kind of wrap this up?
31:13
SPEAKER_02: If you're looking for an if you're young and you have a good worth work ethic, you can't beat the elevator industry.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a great place to grow up, and it's a great place to learn, and you'll wind up with lifelong friends.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: That's I just I just love this industry.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: There's nothing more I can say, and I enjoy going to functions, I enjoy seeing people, and I enjoy listening to guys like you who get to promote us.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so thank you.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you beyond it.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: And I and I actually see uh you've got the Pop Joe jacket on.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: Were you at the most recent uh the the Pop Joe was this year on uh September 25th, and I run it.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gotcha.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: I've been running the outing since 1974.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: So this was our 47th year.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: We missed two years, one for Hurricane Sandy and one because of COVID.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: So then we raised money for the Elevator Escalator Safety Foundation.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: I gotcha.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: So do you I don't know if you know much about the foundation.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, I talked to some people actually on here that that uh are members or you know, uh we run programs for second graders to teach them the proper way to ride an elevator and an escalator, and to give their parents pointers like, don't take me on that escalator, my shoes are untied.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Or don't take the stroller on the escalator.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: And we've found that second graders are the most receptive and will pass on information to their parents.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: And we now have programs for senior citizens, being one myself.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: So it's good to go into some senior citizen homes and tell people to be careful.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: And and so, yeah, maybe we need to do uh do another one later on.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: We'll talk specifically about the escalator elevator safety foundation because I'm not as familiar with there's a lot of really good people involved with this with this foundation.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: All the major elevator companies have people sitting on the board, um, and just fundraisers all over the country that help, you know, help run the programs.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Sounds like you're doing great work, you're enjoying it.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you do you have any plans to retire again or or not?
33:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh next time I retire is when they tell me I'm done.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: So right now I'm still in pretty decent shape and I can get around.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: I can still go into Manhattan if I have to.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: So I as long as I can still function very well, I try.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's great.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, Joel, thank you so much for your time.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed the conversation.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: You're learning from me.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Matt.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: And keep keep going up and down.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: You too.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay, take care.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
34:10
unknown: Bye.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.