Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Scaling With Private Equity: Mike Horvath's Viking Global Partnership at Revenova

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Scaling With Private Equity: Mike Horvath's Viking Global Partnership at Revenova · The Inspired Stories Podcast

• 0:04
  Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
• 0:08
  where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
• 0:11
  their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
• 0:14
  adversity. My name is Anthony Codispoti and
• 0:17
  today's guest is Michael Horvath, COO and Co founder of
• 0:21
  Revanova, the industry's only CRM powered transportation
• 0:26
  management system for freight brokers, 3 PLS carriers and
• 0:30
  shippers. Founded in 2014 and deployed on
• 0:34
  Salesforce, Revanova TMS unifies multimodal quoting, planning,
• 0:39
  booking, dispatch, tracking and settlement with market leading
• 0:44
  CRM, digital engagement, AI and analytics.
• 0:48
  All of this to help mid market and enterprise customers,
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  including some of North America's largest three PLS,
• 0:55
  grow revenue, improve service and lower costs.
• 0:59
  Michael leads Revanova's go to market and product strategy.
• 1:02
  Before this, he Co founded for SEBA the first native Salesforce
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  credit and collection suite, serving as CMO and Executive
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  Vice President until its acquisition by Equifax in 2014.
• 1:17
  Earlier stops include NCR, Quintus, Avaya and Cortera.
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  A graduate of Northern Illinois University, Michael brings a
• 1:25
  builder's perspective to logistics tech.
• 1:28
  Now before we get into all that good stuff, today our episode is
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  One recent client was able to increase net profits by $900 per
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  To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at
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  AD Back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
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  today, CEO of Revanova and Co founder, Michael Horvath.
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  Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
• 2:20
  Well, thanks for having me today.
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  Very excited about the conversation.
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  So Mike, you've got a pretty long and storied career in
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  sales. Is that something that came
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  naturally to you or did you have to kind of build that skill and
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  that comfort level over time? Yeah, it's a great question.
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  You know, I, I got into sales primarily because of a college
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  professor at Northern Illinois University.
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  I took a sales class in the first day of class, the teacher
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  said I have to teach the textbook.
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  And so I'm going to have the midterm exam next week and the
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  final exam two weeks from now because I, it's required for me
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  to teach this book. So I need to read half the book,
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  get ready for the test. And you still have time to drop
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  this class if you want, if that's not something you're
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  interested in. And he's like in sales, you have
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  to do unreal things on the, on unreal timelines.
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  And I'm like, wow, this is very intriguing.
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  So I didn't drop it. I stuck it out.
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  We did the midterm exam a week later, final exam a week after
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  that. And then we were basically
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  paired up with salespeople, professional salespeople as
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  almost like an internship for the rest of the semester while
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  we were learning all different things about sales, how to
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  prospect, how to objection, handle all these different
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  really interesting things. And, you know, from that point
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  on I was like, OK, this is, I like this, you know, and I had a
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  really good time with the internship.
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  And after that, you know, I, I picked up my first job with NCR
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  and sales because really of that influence of a professor at.
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  NIU and then that's an incredible way to structure a
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  course. You know, I graduated with a
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  business degree and one of my big complaints coming out of
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  there was no entrepreneurship courses and at least that I was
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  aware of, there were no sales courses available.
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  And so not only did you have a sort a sales course available,
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  but they were doing the practical things, right.
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  You weren't just learning the terms and the theory like you
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  were learning the practice of how to do it.
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  I mean, that's, that's incredibly impactful to young
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  age. Yeah.
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  I went into it as a marketing major thinking, you know,
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  marketing, advertising more on the marketing side of business.
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  And after that class and after doing the experience and at the
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  internship level, like I said, I think I could do this.
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  I think I like it. It was really, you know,
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  engaging with people. I really like that aspect of it.
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  You're always problem solving, you're always engaging people in
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  conversations, trying to convince, you know, folks and
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  understand the requirements, all the things you do as a good
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  salesperson and all the activity management and and time time
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  management that you have to do as well.
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  So yeah, it's that's how I started down the down that path
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  and. What specifically were you
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  selling at NCR back then? Retail systems.
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  So it was all about the tech. And so that's kind of how I got
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  into the tech space as well. It was point of sale, you know,
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  and working on different point of sale opportunities with
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  grocery stores, restaurants, retail outlets, you know, in
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  central Illinois and basically in the car driving around
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  talking to different people, set up appointments.
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  And you know, I'm trying to understand what the requirements
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  are and how our how our solutions can help them.
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  Before we get to talking about your current venture, Revanova,
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  want to hear just a little bit about your past?
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  Maybe pick one of your most formidable stops along the way
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  and talk to us about that. When did you learn there?
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  Yeah, that's an easy answer for me.
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  That would be Quintus Corporation.
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  We were ACRM vendor in the mid 90s.
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  Yep, before Salesforce.com was even probably a thought on
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  people's minds and we had a great product and we had a great
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  company. I was early there.
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  That's one of the salespeople and and was able to close very
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  large accounts like State Farm Insurance and John Deere and
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  United Airlines in the central region.
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  We were crushing it as a company and in 1999 we went public and
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  you know, he had great mentors there.
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  Gentleman by name of John Cecala works for Google Now.
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  I've learned so much from John. He was a great mentor.
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  Peter Kenyon and other great mentor there.
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  And we were just doing great, going like gangbusters.
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  And then the whole bottom dropped out of the company.
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  Our CEO, under the public pressure of making numbers, did
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  some illegal things. Oh, wow.
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  And we ultimately got delisted off, off the exchange and
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  everybody's equity value, a lot of people lost a lot of money,
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  including myself, you know, potential money.
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  In terms of the equity value we had, we, we had a market cap of
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  over 1.7 billion when we went public.
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  Our stock went from 18 to $55 on day one.
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  We were a darling of Silicon Valley at the time.
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  And now we are in survival mode. You know, I, I was the RVP of
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  sales at the time. I had to let go half my team.
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  Like I got a call saying we got to let go performers, you know,
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  we have to do all these things. And so you learn a lot from that
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  experience. The unbelievable highs of taking
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  something that was a small software company and going and
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  getting going public and watching it just be a complete
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  win to being a complete loss. And ultimately we we filed
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  bankruptcy that the, the investors actually bank, you
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  know, did a pre packed bankruptcy sale to Avaya.
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  So basically sold our tech to Avaya, which then lived on as
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  their customer reaction center and so on.
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  And when that's when I decided to leave the company, I'd spent
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  a ton of time on the good side and on the bad side, you know,
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  recovering customers, keeping customers on board, keeping the
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  revenue. We had a great product and we
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  had great people working at the company and our customers were
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  seeing value from it. But that whole ethics problem
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  with our CEO, Alan Anderson, you can look it up, you know, Google
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  them, you can see all the things that happened ultimately got be
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  a banned by the FCC, you know, to be ACEO or executive on a
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  public company, a lot of different things that happened
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  as a result of that. But yeah, so that that was a
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  great learning experience. And you could, you know, I'd
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  look at it both from the positive aspects I took away
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  from it and what did I learn from the downside of that.
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  What was the biggest thing you learned from the downside?
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  The biggest, the biggest take away was you have to work with
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  ethical people you can trust because that was a classic
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  example of everything was going well.
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  And one, one, maybe one person for sure.
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  And how it got through the rest of the audit checks and stuff.
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  I don't know the answers to that.
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  But ethical people line yourself up with people you can trust and
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  that have good ethics, because these things can happen if you
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  don't, right? But this was somebody that you
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  had worked with for some period of time before the company went
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  public. Were there any signs that there
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  were some unscrupulous things, or maybe that the character of
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  this person was questionable? No, I mean nothing that obvious
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  to me. And I was in the central region,
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  you know, and then the executive team was in Fremont, CA, So I
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  didn't have day-to-day interactions, you know, with,
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  you know, Ellen Anderson specifically.
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  I mean, I talk to them quite often as one of the top reps and
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  our region was always a top performing region, but never,
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  never anything that would indicate that this would happen.
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  And so I do think like if you're going into a company and
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  researching the people that you're going to work with is a
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  good idea, Like see what backgrounds exist.
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  You know, obviously the internet's a great thing to look
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  at backgrounds on folks and see, you know, what they may or may
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  not not have done or been involved with in the past.
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  You know, make sure you cross those TS and dot those I's when
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  you're going to, you know, especially partner up with
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  somebody or invest a lot of time in a career.
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  But I know that was the shocking part of it is Yellen was very,
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  you know, he dynamic man, lots of positive aspects, you know,
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  could go out there and really promote the company, You know,
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  very, very well. You know, why these things
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  happen, why he did it. You know, I can only guess
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  financial motives potentially, you know, stock price stuff, you
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  know, as a public company. But yes, yeah, that's my big
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  take away. And and it's obviously you can't
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  always prepare for those things. And I think that's life, right?
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  Life is hurdles you have to overcome that come at you that
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  you never saw right. Yeah, So it's not like you look
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  back and you're like, oh, there were some red flags that I
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  missed. This just this blew you away.
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  This was not something. I know it's the biggest
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  frustrating part of it for, you know, and I still stay in touch
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  with a lot of the team that we work together with how you get
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  off this California quite a bit. Being a Salesforce partner, I
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  usually connect up with the the team that we had there because
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  we built great relationships. We had great friendships.
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  We had, like I said, a great product.
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  It it just was a really bad ending.
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  So where did the idea to start Rebenova come from?
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  That came from my colleague Charles Craig Miles.
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  So, you know, Charles and I and Dave and Jeff Parisi kind of the
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  four, four of us, we actually had two companies.
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  The Forciva 1 you mentioned in the intro that was a result of
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  me coming out of another kind of bad experience.
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  Talk about overcoming hurdles. Yeah, Forciva.
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  I was at a company called E Credit, saw it on my bio and we
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  were, it was a turn around situation working with a one of
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  my mentors, Jeff Dickerson, another great person I learned a
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  lot from. And we turned a company around
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  and, you know, ultimately sold it to an investment group And
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  the new CEO came in. And at the time, I was really
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  much, very much, I love where we were heading as a company.
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  E Credit. We had turned around.
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  We had a good vision for what we are going to do.
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  And the new CEO came in and we kind of talked about stuff and
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  I'm like, I just want to know, you know, new management, new
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  investors, am I your guy? Here's what I think, here's
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  what, here's what we've done. Here's my track record.
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  I'd like to stay. He's like, yeah, I, you know, we
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  kind of came to that agreement literally a week later.
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  We met in Chicago and he fired me.
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  Oh my gosh. Yeah.
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  So I go, OK, that's certainly 180° turn around from the
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  conversation we had a week prior on, you know, am I in or out
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  kind of thing and you know, where are we going and what what
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  our visions are? Do we share those things?
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  So you know, there's another great example of woe.
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  What just happened in that of course, Jeff Dickerson, former
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  CEO of accredited, offered me another position at another
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  company he had went to post acquisition and I call up like
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  Jeff, that's the thing was, I know Mike, I made a commitment
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  to another good friend of mine that was going to take on the
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  role that he was thinking about for me.
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  So I was like, oh boy, what do I do now?
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  And and Jeff kind of said, hey, Mike, you know, you're smart
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  enough. Why don't you start a company
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  like you? You've he and I had worked
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  together and many times and you have multiple occasions and he's
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  like, you're smart enough. You know, you've got good ideas,
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  you know, take one of those, go get some money.
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  I can help you do that and let's let's start a company.
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  So I connected with a, a colleague of mine, Dave Craig
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  Mile was one of the Co founders and he's best tech guy architect
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  I've ever worked with. And I said, I've got this idea
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  for an application for, you know, one click credit checks on
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  Salesforce. Every sales guy needs to get
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  through the credit hurdles if you're selling.
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  I, I learned that first hand when I was selling, you know, I
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  want to get the deal closed. Well, wait a minute, you know
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  credit has to approve the customer and it's slowing the
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  deal down and you'll fill out the application.
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  And so this is a credit check for an individual.
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  Credit check on a company, so like, say a company wants to buy
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  on terms, can you sell it on terms or you got to get cash
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  upfront? All those types of credit
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  decisions that companies make when they do AB2B transaction.
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  So I had this idea. So I, I talked to Dave, we
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  prototype something and I'm like, the dog will hunt.
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  Technically, I think there's a good idea here.
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  And I'd seen this kind of process, you know, in the field
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  when I was 80 credit. And so he was like, oh, my
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  brother knows a rich guy. His name was Rich actually and
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  he goes he he's an Angel investor.
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  Let's talk to my brother about getting connected with this get
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  some funding. He said, OK, let's do that.
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  And then Charles listen to the business pitch.
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  I put a deck together and he's like, hey, I'd like to be part
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  of this. I'm I'm at Schneider logistics
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  right now, but I was thinking about making a career change.
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  I wouldn't mind doing such an entrepreneurial.
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  And so we met up with rich. He funded the company and Dave
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  Charles and I and Jeff Parisi, who is a top sales guy at E
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  credit that I'd met through that environment.
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  We started for Seva and then we grew it, you know, over a four
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  year period and and sold to Equifax ultimately and that was
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  a great ride, incredible fun. It was, it was and what was
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  great about this was Dave Charles and I had highly
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  complimentary skill sets. We are philosophically aligned.
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  I knew Dave from a prior work experience at Shop Talk and we
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  just had a very similar philosophy of what we wanted to
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  do as a business. And so that was great.
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  And yet we were, we always were not afraid of conflict either as
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  a management team. And we always knew enough about
• 15:13
  each other's domain to kind of challenge your thinking if you
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  thought it need to be challenged.
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  And you know, one of the philosophies is, you know, hard
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  on the problem, easy on the people, which is, you know, if
• 15:22
  you got it, if you're gonna don't be afraid of conflict.
• 15:24
  We'll talk more about that maybe later.
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  But we had, if we, we were able to really build a company, do it
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  the right way. I, you know, in our opinion, we
• 15:33
  bootstrapped it, you know, with some Angel investments and, you
• 15:36
  know, we didn't now kick our coverage.
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  We just did all the, I think the right things to grow a company.
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  And I learned a lot through my growth period at Quintus working
• 15:43
  for large companies like NCR. And you know what, you know,
• 15:47
  what were the good things to take away and what we are trying
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  to emulate to, you know, grow a company.
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  And, and through that experience, when we exited,
• 15:54
  Charles is like, and our investor Rich is like, wow, what
• 15:57
  do we do next? Like this was awesome.
• 15:59
  No founder drama. Your business plan was exactly
• 16:02
  what you said it was going to be 4 years ago and this is how
• 16:04
  we're going to grow the business.
• 16:06
  Either are possible. That rarely happens.
• 16:09
  It you know what he says the same thing and he invests in a
• 16:11
  lot of different companies. He's like man, you guys are
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  because what are we going to do next?
• 16:15
  Because this was a lot of fun. You know, I never took the phone
• 16:17
  call. I'm quitting the company, you
• 16:19
  know, you know, anyway, we're going to change our business
• 16:21
  plan 180°, you know, this kind of thing.
• 16:24
  It was, we had a vision for what we wanted to do.
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  We executed on it and we exited because we got a great offer.
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  We just couldn't refuse, you know, and, and you know, we had
• 16:33
  no intention of building the company to sell it.
• 16:34
  You know, we just said we're going to build a good, we're
• 16:36
  going to build a great company or people like the work.
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  We're going to serve our customers and we'll see where it
• 16:41
  goes from there, you know, and we'll evaluate that.
• 16:44
  So we never had any plan to build, to sell it, to build it
• 16:47
  to go public, to build it to stay private.
• 16:48
  We're just let's go acquire customers, make them happy, work
• 16:52
  with great people, and we'll see where the chips see what.
• 16:54
  Happens. Yeah.
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  So Charles is like, well, what do we do next?
• 16:57
  Well, you know, when I was at Schneider, I had three TM s s.
• 17:00
  It wasn't connected to my CRM. And you know, maybe we can do
• 17:04
  the same thing with transportation management that
• 17:06
  we just did with credit management on Salesforce.
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  And so we went out, talked to a few the brokerages because
• 17:14
  that's in Charles that come out of the brokerage iron of
• 17:15
  Schneider. People are like.
• 17:17
  Explain this a little bit. What's ATMs?
• 17:20
  What's explain the brokerage role here?
• 17:23
  Yeah, sure. So when you think about
• 17:24
  transportation, when I talk about transportation, I'm
• 17:26
  talking about trucks, you know, delivering commercial goods or
• 17:29
  you know, moving things on trains or moving things by plane
• 17:32
  or moving things by containers on oceans or trains.
• 17:35
  So the whole logistics transportation of, of physical
• 17:38
  goods around the globe. So a transportation management
• 17:41
  system is what orchestrates that manages that.
• 17:44
  So how do you price it? How do you track it?
• 17:46
  How do you, you know, settle, charge your customer, pay your
• 17:50
  carriers that move the freight for you, All the things that go
• 17:53
  in between that those transactions.
• 17:55
  That's what the transportation management system is going to do
• 17:57
  for you is the operational side of that traditionally, which is
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  I've got a load of products, a truck load of things that need
• 18:03
  to go from point A to point B or point A to B to C to D to E.
• 18:08
  And how do you operationally planned for that book the
• 18:12
  carriers, get the appointments with the location to make sure
• 18:14
  it all happens on time and then, you know, bill for it and pay
• 18:18
  for it. And so wrapped around that, of
• 18:20
  course, are sales people trying to find new shippers, You know,
• 18:23
  in the brokerage world, a broker, what they do is they sit
• 18:25
  between carriers out there, truck drivers and trucking
• 18:28
  companies, etcetera, and the customers that have to move
• 18:31
  freight. And the broker says I've got a
• 18:33
  carrier network that I can help you move your freight, you know,
• 18:37
  Mr. Shipper, and I could do that at a great rate for you and I
• 18:40
  can service that for you. And I can deal with all the
• 18:43
  crazy stuff that happened in the logistics, you know, do the
• 18:45
  traffic and weather and other events.
• 18:48
  And I'll deal with all of that on your behalf.
• 18:50
  And I'm going to basically mark up that carrier's cost to you
• 18:54
  for that, for doing that for you on your behalf, then take all
• 18:58
  that off your off your plate. So that's what brokers do, you
• 19:00
  know, they just basically sit in between and it sometimes, you
• 19:04
  know, there's a lot of terminology in our space
• 19:06
  brokerages, third party logistics companies, which are
• 19:09
  three PLS often, you know, referred to as they're a third
• 19:13
  party that does logistics on your behalf.
• 19:14
  So they might actually manage your warehouse facilities.
• 19:17
  They might also have trucks that they use of their own, so they
• 19:20
  manage their own fleet. So our TMS, our vision for that
• 19:24
  was we're going to build ATMs today is tightly coupled with
• 19:27
  sales processing and marketing. Because in order for a broker or
• 19:32
  a three PL. or even a shipper to get the right carrier network,
• 19:36
  you have to have a sales and marketing campaign to go find
• 19:39
  the right partners, right? So you have to go find the
• 19:42
  carriers, they're going to be a best fit for your business if
• 19:45
  you're a broker and or a shipper.
• 19:48
  And if you're a broker, you need to go find the customers that
• 19:50
  have freight that you can move on those carriers.
• 19:52
  So you're selling and marketing One Direction for customers as a
• 19:55
  broker in three PL. and you're also selling and marketing to
• 19:58
  the providers, the partners. That you're going to need to
• 20:02
  move that freight. So it's a natural, it's a
• 20:04
  natural way to natural process extension.
• 20:07
  TMS kind of sits in the middle of that transaction, you know,
• 20:10
  then feeds everything into an accounting system.
• 20:12
  So our whole vision was, well, why the heck don't we just put
• 20:15
  it all together, right? Why don't we put it on
• 20:16
  Salesforce? So it's sharing the same data by
• 20:20
  design. So all the accounts that you're
• 20:22
  prospecting to and you're quoting freight for are, are
• 20:25
  already in the system. You don't have to do this
• 20:27
  synchronization of data. Which is a big challenge in our
• 20:31
  industry. Sorry Mike.
• 20:32
  Prior to this point, the the CRM and all these sort of logistics
• 20:37
  functions were housed in two different software products.
• 20:41
  Yeah, it may. It may be more than two because
• 20:44
  there's a lot of tools that people use to facilitate this
• 20:46
  process. So you might have a sales, you
• 20:48
  might use Salesforce for your CRM and marketing for sales and
• 20:50
  marketing. Then you have some TMS, it's
• 20:52
  over here. So now you've got the same data
• 20:55
  that needs to be here, over here, you got to replicate that.
• 20:58
  Then there might be, you know, an accounting system that's on
• 21:00
  another platform, you got to get the data over there.
• 21:02
  Then there's a whole host of third party tools and data that
• 21:06
  logistics professionals use to help them price freight
• 21:09
  correctly, to track freight correctly.
• 21:11
  So you now you've got this mishmash of things and seven
• 21:15
  monitor, you know, 3 monitors, 7 different applications up trying
• 21:18
  to all coordinate that process. And our vision was why don't we
• 21:23
  try to eliminate all of that swivel chair kind of application
• 21:26
  flow and all that data synchronization stuff and allow
• 21:29
  you, what we say, focus on innovation versus integration.
• 21:34
  So the challenge in our industry is you have to integrate it so
• 21:36
  many things. And even in our world, you're
• 21:38
  still integrating things. But if you can make the user's
• 21:40
  experience very seamless and you can work off the same set of
• 21:43
  master data, you, you got a big head start on your competitors
• 21:47
  who have to spend a lot of time, effort, energy and money getting
• 21:51
  things just to work together, right?
• 21:53
  So nobody had done this, nobody had done this, nobody had done
• 21:56
  it before. Yeah, that we are the first TMS
• 21:59
  to, you know, come up on the Salesforce app exchange.
• 22:02
  So if you're not familiar with Salesforce, I mean everybody
• 22:06
  pretty much knows in the industry who they are.
• 22:08
  But a lot of people don't realize that Salesforce also has
• 22:11
  a huge ecosystem of third parties that develop on their
• 22:14
  platform and or support their platform.
• 22:16
  And most of that development is stuff that's complementary to
• 22:19
  the Salesforce suite of products.
• 22:21
  But vendors like us can build a completely new departmental
• 22:24
  module and live on the platform too.
• 22:27
  And that's what we did at Forsela and that's what we did
• 22:29
  again at Revanovo. So we kind of took, hey, we did
• 22:32
  it once successfully and it's worked and now it's we did it
• 22:35
  again with a different application to serve a different
• 22:37
  industry need with with Revanova and so right out of the gate.
• 22:42
  Were you guys getting customers? How did that first one come
• 22:45
  about? Yeah.
• 22:46
  So the the first one really came about from our additional kind
• 22:49
  of research that we were doing on the the concept.
• 22:52
  So it as a young company and you're, and it's a start up, you
• 22:55
  know, you have to find willing partners to kind of go along for
• 22:58
  the ride, right, to get to an MVP product that they can
• 23:02
  actually use their in their business.
• 23:04
  So we we had a couple of customers that really said, I'll
• 23:07
  help you develop this and I'll test it and I'll do these things
• 23:10
  while I'm still using someone else's product.
• 23:12
  But I love your vision and when you get there, I'm in, right?
• 23:15
  And so, you know, one of the takeaways that I've learned over
• 23:18
  the years was I work for a startup that spent long before
• 23:22
  the product was ready, spent 10's and 10s of millions of
• 23:24
  dollars on marketing only not to have a product that could
• 23:28
  actually be truly implemented. And you know, one of the
• 23:31
  takeaways I took from that experience was don't spend a
• 23:33
  dime on marketing until you've got at least three customers and
• 23:36
  ideally 5 to 10 customers running your platform, running
• 23:40
  your app, working it like it will reference it, and then you
• 23:44
  can pour money into marketing. So what you're describing is a
• 23:48
  big time commitment from the customer, right?
• 23:52
  They don't know that you're going to end up developing
• 23:55
  whatever it is that you're, you know, sort of putting on paper
• 23:59
  in a presentation. And it takes a lot of time from
• 24:02
  them to be testing this, telling you the bugs, asking for new
• 24:06
  features while they're still trying to run their business.
• 24:09
  How did you get these three to five first, people kind of agree
• 24:12
  to do that. I guess that's the art of the
• 24:16
  deal they like. So one of the things we always
• 24:21
  talk about is why do you want to do business with us?
• 24:23
  Here's our vision for your, here's our vision for the market
• 24:27
  and here's how it can benefit you.
• 24:29
  We're not when you're in start up mode, we're not there today,
• 24:31
  but that's what we're trying to achieve.
• 24:33
  Will you be a part of that? Will you be part of the initial
• 24:36
  design and are you? So if you're willing to do that,
• 24:38
  we're going to be highly collaborative with you.
• 24:41
  You're going to get the things that you want.
• 24:42
  Because I think as as most startups, it's really, I think
• 24:46
  the best big success for us has been like the customers tell you
• 24:50
  everything you need to know about how to make your product
• 24:53
  highly attractive and highly valuable, right?
• 24:55
  So we were willing to put in all the time as well to sit side by
• 25:00
  side with customers to build it the way would improve their
• 25:03
  business in a way that it was worth the time investment,
• 25:06
  right. So they're saying, hey, I've
• 25:07
  looked around the market, I haven't seen anything like this.
• 25:10
  I love this idea. And if I'm one of the first in
• 25:12
  once we go live first, we give them nice financial incentives,
• 25:15
  you know, on the actual use of the product, you know, virtually
• 25:19
  giving it away to cover our cost to get those first customers up
• 25:23
  live and running as a reward for the investment in time that they
• 25:27
  put into helping us get there. And that that was that proved
• 25:31
  out to be great. Now I would say a handful of
• 25:33
  those customers are still with us and a few of left, you know,
• 25:37
  from actually went out of business, you know, brokers that
• 25:40
  come and go. We started off with smaller
• 25:42
  companies initially to prove the concept.
• 25:44
  You know, it was a much easier thing for a smaller company to
• 25:47
  bite off. You know, the five man
• 25:49
  brokerage, the 5 truck fleet was much easier.
• 25:53
  We've hence moved up market, you know, after, you know, years and
• 25:56
  years and years of development because they're the deals were
• 25:59
  there, but early on it was just lock arms and and you just have
• 26:03
  to go and keep knocking on doors until you find 3 or 4 that we're
• 26:07
  willing to do it with you that represent an ICP you want to go
• 26:10
  address, you know, after you've got to an MVP status and so.
• 26:14
  How does where the product is right now compared to what the
• 26:18
  original vision was? Well, the vision is the same,
• 26:22
  but the feature sets, you know, 50X and what we started with the
• 26:28
  vision was always we were not going to pin ourselves to a
• 26:30
  specific mode of transportation, meaning like truckload versus
• 26:34
  less than truckload versus drayage versus ocean freight
• 26:38
  versus, you know, intermodal, which is moving freight on the
• 26:40
  rail lines. We are going to make our TMS
• 26:44
  agnostic to any mode specificity.
• 26:46
  So we had seen the competitors. I have a truckload TMS or an
• 26:48
  LTLTMS. But if you did both modes as a
• 26:51
  provider, you needed two different products.
• 26:53
  You have the data synchronization problem, yet all
• 26:55
  that stuff and in many moves today are a combination of
• 26:58
  moving something by container and then moving it, but taking
• 27:02
  stuff out of the container or moving it with a bunch of trucks
• 27:04
  all over the other place. So the logistics can get
• 27:06
  complicated and it's a mix of these different modes of
• 27:09
  operation. So our initial vision was we
• 27:11
  were going to limit ourselves to a mode, we weren't going to
• 27:13
  limit ourselves to a geography, meaning we are going to be multi
• 27:15
  currency and multilingual, you know, out-of-the-box, meaning,
• 27:19
  you know, so now today a lot of our customers are in Canada that
• 27:21
  move cross-border freights. They sell it in Canadian
• 27:23
  dollars, they move it in U.S. dollars and we reconcile all
• 27:26
  that stuff. And they have people that have
• 27:28
  French language requirements, so they work in French or they have
• 27:30
  French documents. And so we said we're going to be
• 27:33
  a logistics provider. And logistics is global.
• 27:36
  Stuff comes from China, stuff comes from other areas.
• 27:39
  We move stuff over there. As US manufacturers, we would
• 27:43
  not limit ourselves to anything. Even the name Revanova had
• 27:45
  nothing to do with logistics. It was just a name, right?
• 27:49
  And that we came up with after, you know, a session, probably
• 27:53
  with a few cocktails and looking for open URLs to, you know, what
• 27:57
  was available and what sounded kind of cool and what didn't
• 27:59
  pigeonhole us into what we were thinking we were going to be.
• 28:03
  It's a company name that could go any direction in case our
• 28:06
  vision needed to change, you know, like, oh, this is this dog
• 28:09
  ain't hunting. Maybe we go a different
• 28:11
  direction. No, but.
• 28:12
  And just like Foreseeva, our vision hasn't changed at all.
• 28:16
  We've just been executing on it. So we've just been adding more
• 28:19
  features, adding more modes. We're going to continue to do
• 28:22
  that as we grow. And, and so, yeah, nothing has
• 28:25
  changed. No founder drama, no vision
• 28:28
  changes so far. So when you go to a new client,
• 28:32
  new prospect, who is it that you're actually selling to?
• 28:35
  What's their role? Yeah, it'll depend on the
• 28:39
  company. So broker 3 PL. space, we're
• 28:42
  usually dealing with the, you know, executive team, CEOs, VPS
• 28:47
  of operations, VP of transportation.
• 28:50
  People are in charge of customer sales or carrier sales, kind of
• 28:52
  depending on the size of the company.
• 28:55
  If we're going, if we're talking with manufacturers who actually
• 28:58
  make the products that need to be shipped, it tends to be the
• 29:00
  people in their logistics or shipping areas that we start
• 29:03
  with, not the CEO of. We wouldn't go to the CEO of,
• 29:08
  you know, Procter and Gamble. It would be their logistics
• 29:10
  people at Procter and Gamble, for example.
• 29:13
  Those would be the people we go there.
• 29:14
  So it depends on the customer segment on where we would end up
• 29:18
  going. But we, we tend to want to, we
• 29:21
  tend to like to sell high, but we also do grassroots things as
• 29:25
  well. You'll talk to the people
• 29:26
  actually doing the job. So dispatchers and, you know,
• 29:29
  freight brokers and things that we see at trade events and
• 29:31
  others to maybe build it up from the bottom and, you know, bring
• 29:35
  it down from the top because there's, you know, value props,
• 29:37
  you know, across the continuum there.
• 29:40
  So I know a couple of things that your platform focuses on
• 29:42
  are predictive pricing and route optimization.
• 29:47
  Do you have any case studies or any numbers off the top of your
• 29:50
  head that you can share about, you know, a client where you
• 29:54
  know, here was sort of the economics before and then the
• 29:58
  economics after Revanova came in?
• 30:03
  Sure. And and they there's a lot of
• 30:06
  demonstrable ROI, you know, across a lot of different
• 30:10
  components this, you know, lack of the need to do integration
• 30:13
  versus innovate in and of itself has a 3040% kind of ROI.
• 30:18
  It relates to what maybe what they were doing prior to, you
• 30:21
  know, deploying Revanova. But the coolest thing I would
• 30:24
  say that we've, you know, on the pricing dynamic pricing side is,
• 30:29
  you know, after about two years ago, after being, you know, in
• 30:32
  business for almost 10 years, our customers use a lot of
• 30:36
  different third party, what we call pricing resources to
• 30:39
  understand the spot market. Think of it a lot like how you
• 30:43
  would look at the stock market ticker on Yahoo Finance.
• 30:45
  You kind of want to see what the trade, what's thing, what are
• 30:47
  things trading at, what's the price, is it going up, is it
• 30:50
  going down? And in that world you get a very
• 30:53
  real time view of what's going on in the market, right?
• 30:56
  Yeah, You could see what's going on on the Wall Street, you know,
• 30:58
  on, on the NASDAQ, and you can look at all of those exchanges
• 31:02
  in real time. It's going to see, make
• 31:04
  decisions on that. Well, freight markers work very
• 31:06
  similarly. The the truck, the full
• 31:09
  truckload market in the US is very much a dynamic market.
• 31:13
  You know, trucks are moving around the country constantly.
• 31:15
  They're always in different areas.
• 31:16
  There's a limited number of trucks out there and you know
• 31:20
  you need to get your freight moved and you got to find
• 31:22
  someone who's going to do it for you.
• 31:23
  And the pricing on it they call a spot market.
• 31:26
  If there's somebody who's just looking for freight today as a
• 31:29
  carrier and someone who's got a load to move today, they don't
• 31:32
  have a contract, they're going to say how much and they're
• 31:34
  going to tell you how much based on what they need to move the
• 31:37
  load at what the market's telling them.
• 31:39
  How hard is it to find a carrier?
• 31:41
  How's it going to be going to dictate how much you're going to
• 31:42
  will you pay? So our customers are asking us
• 31:45
  for help on that. And so we introduced something
• 31:48
  we call our land IQ network, which is a real time pricing
• 31:51
  engine, which is, and it's anonymized.
• 31:53
  So for a competitive standpoint, you know, to give up, you know,
• 31:56
  any of your business secrets like what are my great carriers
• 31:59
  that I like to use on certain lanes that they call them
• 32:02
  logistic lanes are basically Chicago to Dallas or Dallas to
• 32:06
  LA. That's a lane, if you will, of a
• 32:09
  shipping lane. And so different carriers
• 32:11
  specialize in these different lanes and the whole trick and
• 32:14
  three PLS and brokerages is building out that carrier
• 32:16
  network. And then I kind of keeping them
• 32:19
  captive, if you will, not the right word, but basically
• 32:23
  keeping them engaged. So you keep feeding them
• 32:25
  freight, keep their trucks busy. It's easy on them.
• 32:27
  They don't have to go out and try to find freight.
• 32:29
  You're just pitching them freight left and right, right.
• 32:32
  And you know, ultimately, if you have those kind of
• 32:34
  relationships, you start to build contracted rates.
• 32:36
  OK, I'll agree to move this for X.
• 32:38
  Could you just keep giving me freight?
• 32:39
  This is great. This works for me.
• 32:41
  But there's a lot of freight that moves in the spot market.
• 32:43
  I don't have a truck, I don't have a contracted rate.
• 32:46
  I need to move this. So how much Mr. Carrier to move
• 32:49
  this today? And so knowing what the market
• 32:52
  is doing pricing these lanes is highly important to any
• 32:55
  logistics company. Anybody you doing logistics,
• 32:58
  what's the spot market look like today for like full truckload or
• 33:01
  flatbed moves etcetera. So in our world, we we roll up
• 33:06
  all of that anonymize and provide it back in real time.
• 33:08
  So like a real time view of the market versus a historical view,
• 33:11
  which is what most competitive solutions do.
• 33:13
  They roll up data from his history and try to say, well,
• 33:16
  based on three days ago, seven days ago, here's what I think
• 33:19
  the price should look like today.
• 33:21
  We're saying here's what the price looks like today.
• 33:24
  Here's 10 carriers that bid that lane.
• 33:25
  This is what it looks like, not the carrier names, but just the
• 33:28
  rates. And that's the difference.
• 33:29
  And that's really exciting because that's.
• 33:31
  It's something very new. Is that most helpful to the the
• 33:35
  person who needs the freight shipped or the carrier that's
• 33:37
  doing the shipping so that they don't have to guess it?
• 33:42
  It's sort of like, hey, here's sort of where the market
• 33:45
  standard is today in this moment in this region.
• 33:48
  Yeah, that's right. It's it's really about where,
• 33:50
  where is this at? You know, everybody's, Yep, if
• 33:53
  you think about it like any negotiation you're trying to
• 33:55
  buy, you're trying to buy the freight at the lowest possible
• 33:58
  cost. And the carry of course, is
• 34:00
  trying to cover their cost at a nice margin.
• 34:03
  And so there's this back and forth and moving something for
• 34:07
  something when you need to get your truck back to Chicago
• 34:09
  because you're in Dallas and you got to get it back there for a
• 34:11
  load maybe two days later. You know, that's called a
• 34:14
  backhaul. You're willing to maybe take a
• 34:17
  better, you know, lower rate just to get something to cover
• 34:20
  the cost of the truck moving back to where it's going to pick
• 34:22
  up its next load, right. And ideally you want to get as
• 34:24
  much as you can. And so that's the, you know, the
• 34:27
  trick on both sides is understanding what people are
• 34:29
  bidding for that lane and, and what people are paying for that
• 34:33
  lane. And what we're showing is what,
• 34:35
  what are the carriers charging for that lane because they have
• 34:37
  to cover their costs. So there's a, there is a floor.
• 34:39
  I mean, you can get below that. Occasionally people like, oh, I
• 34:41
  got it. I'll take anything because I
• 34:42
  just want to cover something. But typically, you know,
• 34:45
  carriers are trying to cover their costs at margins.
• 34:47
  So you kind of know where the game is being played at that
• 34:50
  point and you can negotiate and. It gets both parties to a
• 34:54
  decision point faster, right? Because all of this is time
• 34:56
  sensitive, I need my goods to get there in a certain amount of
• 34:59
  time, and as the carrier, I need to get the truck back to a
• 35:02
  different city in a certain amount of time as well.
• 35:06
  Yeah, ideally, you know, when they put out what's called an
• 35:07
  offer rate, you say I have a shipment and I'm willing to pay
• 35:10
  X for it. And knowing that that's a,
• 35:13
  that's a fair price, that's, you know, you're not gouging the
• 35:16
  carrier because you don't want, that's a bad business
• 35:17
  relationship too, right? You know, I'm just jamming you
• 35:19
  down for, you know, you're not making any money.
• 35:21
  Eventually that relationship dies, right, Because you're not,
• 35:24
  that person's not going to want to do business with you.
• 35:26
  So the idea is try to get a fair rate based on what the market
• 35:29
  conditions are because capacity moves around.
• 35:31
  As I mentioned, if there's only a few trucks available, well,
• 35:34
  you, you know, you probably can get a better rate for your truck
• 35:37
  because you got 30 people trying to move freight and you got 3
• 35:39
  trucks. You know, it's a, an example of
• 35:42
  kind of the dynamics of supply and demand, but it truly is a, a
• 35:45
  constantly moving supply and demand.
• 35:47
  Market Can you share a story about an unexpected hurdle that
• 35:52
  you guys faced at Revanova and how you and your team overcame
• 35:55
  it? Yeah, the, the probably the
• 35:59
  unexpected hurdles that I've, I would say that we haven't had
• 36:03
  many unexpected hurdles. Most of them you expected.
• 36:09
  Yeah. I, I, I think we, yeah, I, I can
• 36:12
  honestly say that it at Revanova, we, that can't think
• 36:15
  of something we're going, Oh my God, like we weren't expecting
• 36:19
  that. I, I think most of the hurdles
• 36:21
  we've had to overcome have been expected.
• 36:24
  And so really, really more around those lines.
• 36:28
  And most of those hurdles have just been features or product
• 36:32
  features that we didn't think would be hurdles to and maybe
• 36:35
  getting to a different segment of the market and ultimately
• 36:38
  were. And so, you know, you learn that
• 36:40
  on the fly, you know, you're out there and you're losing
• 36:43
  business, right? You know, we lose our fair share
• 36:46
  too, you know, go in and competers, good competitors out
• 36:48
  there and you learn, right. So, you know, and sometimes
• 36:52
  those hurdles, some of those features were like, whoa, that's
• 36:54
  a big gap. We better, we better, you know,
• 36:56
  plug that. So I'd say those are the types
• 36:59
  of hurdles we've had to overcome have been more product feature
• 37:02
  related against, you know, an addressable market.
• 37:04
  We thought we were ready to go after and and quite weren't
• 37:07
  ready to go after after really getting into it.
• 37:11
  But you know, those things, we just adjust our, adjust our plan
• 37:14
  and keep going, you know, and, and plug those gaps and then go
• 37:17
  back and, you know, give it if, if the market's worth it, you
• 37:20
  need to keep going back. And you find people like I did,
• 37:22
  I talked about earlier in startup mode, which is you find
• 37:25
  customers and you're trying to enter new markets.
• 37:27
  As we expand our TMS into different modes, it's
• 37:31
  essentially a whole new market for us.
• 37:33
  Even though there's a lot of commonality in TM S S, there's a
• 37:35
  lot of nuances by mode that you have to, you know, put into your
• 37:40
  product in order to effectively service that industry or that
• 37:43
  particular mode, you know, within an industry.
• 37:46
  And so, yeah, you look for people that are willing to
• 37:47
  partner with you to get you over those feature sets, you know, to
• 37:52
  an MVP product for that market, then expand from there.
• 37:56
  What growth? Strategy has been most effective
• 37:58
  for you guys. Yeah, I think our from a growth
• 38:03
  perspective philosophically we believe in that.
• 38:08
  I call it don't out kick your coverage.
• 38:11
  So one of the things we as a company said we didn't want to
• 38:14
  do is thrash. And what I mean by that is we
• 38:17
  see a lot of companies, you know, investigate lots of
• 38:21
  investment, hire a ton of people, go do a bunch of things,
• 38:24
  you know, spend the 40 million in marketing and the business
• 38:28
  doesn't come and they got to cut 30% of their workforce a year
• 38:32
  later, stuff like that. And we said we're not going to
• 38:35
  do that. You know, one of the things that
• 38:37
  I think we've been able to do very, very well is is is people
• 38:40
  matter, right? You know, they're not just field
• 38:42
  replaceable units. Like you hire somebody, we hire
• 38:45
  people with an expectation that they're going to come in,
• 38:46
  they're going to be a high performer, they're going to be
• 38:48
  able to grow with a company and you're going to be here forever.
• 38:51
  If and that's it's it's not. Let's just hire a bunch of
• 38:55
  people, see who sticks, and then you know that we'll keep the
• 38:57
  ones that doing the ones that fail.
• 38:59
  We just, you know, you know, move out.
• 39:02
  It's just not Charles they verize or Jeff's philosophy at
• 39:05
  all. And so we tried to and we never
• 39:09
  had an expectation that we would ever get any money from anybody
• 39:11
  else after we stopped founded the company either.
• 39:13
  So we said we're going to grow this business responsibly.
• 39:16
  We're going to be good stewards of our money that we have.
• 39:20
  We're going to be good stewards of the people and build a good
• 39:23
  culture. We want people to be engaged.
• 39:25
  We want them to see the vision. We want them to feel part of
• 39:28
  this. And that's how we've grown the
• 39:30
  business. Now in in the case of Revanova a
• 39:33
  few years ago we sold our company right to Viking Global
• 39:37
  Investors, you know bought revenue and they said we love
• 39:41
  what you guys are doing. We just want you to do it faster
• 39:44
  and bigger, right. And so they are they inject and
• 39:47
  we ingested a lot of capital. They put a lot of capital on our
• 39:50
  balance sheet to do that. And we've done that.
• 39:51
  You know, at the time I think we were about 18 people or you know
• 39:54
  about 80 now. And we've and we've grown that
• 39:56
  over that time period. I think again in the very
• 39:59
  responsible way, you know, with. With hiring people that we think
• 40:04
  will be long term employees and not just kind of loading up the
• 40:07
  bus and see who sticks. And I like that.
• 40:09
  I think our employees would tell you that and we give them a lot
• 40:13
  of intra, intra departmental mobility.
• 40:15
  You know, you come in and you kind of doing something and now
• 40:17
  you want to, hey, I really like what's going on over there and I
• 40:20
  think I have a better fit over there.
• 40:21
  We're very, we're very good at moving people around to the best
• 40:25
  fit for their skills and where they want to go with their
• 40:27
  careers as well. And I think having that culture
• 40:30
  allows you, you know, to do great things, you know, with the
• 40:32
  team that you have. With over 15 years in tech
• 40:39
  leadership, as you kind of look forward now, what excites you
• 40:43
  most about the future of your space?
• 40:47
  Well, the the big thing for us and it's everywhere is AI.
• 40:50
  So there are some tremendous use cases that can be that were AI
• 40:57
  can contribute to productivity and logistics.
• 41:01
  And when we're implementing a bunch of that at Revanova and
• 41:06
  it's we're just scratching the surface at this point.
• 41:08
  So it's, I think it's, it's definitely a disruptive
• 41:11
  technology that many industries are adopting and is changing the
• 41:15
  business landscape, I think in ways that are going to stick and
• 41:20
  it will will hot wool. We're going to change a lot of
• 41:23
  things in the business world. So we're in out at 100%.
• 41:27
  And I think that's where the biggest opportunities lie.
• 41:30
  When you combine the power of AI with, you know, a very powerful
• 41:33
  workflow and data integration platform like we have with AI on
• 41:38
  platform IT, it presents itself with an opportunity for just
• 41:42
  amazing productivity gains. What can you say about how
• 41:46
  you're currently using AI and what some of the future plans
• 41:50
  look like? Yeah, yeah.
• 41:53
  The the current state, you know, the big benefit is getting
• 41:57
  quotes back to customers quickly.
• 42:00
  And so in the logistics world, you'll get a lot of inquiries on
• 42:04
  how much to move this from here to there.
• 42:05
  I'm shopping around and those a lot of that inbound traffic
• 42:09
  comes on e-mail. And so using AI to read the
• 42:12
  e-mail, using AI to formulate a response, then combining it with
• 42:16
  the workflow and all the business intelligence we keep on
• 42:18
  platform around the rating as I talked about, you know, what's
• 42:21
  the price, what's the market look like?
• 42:22
  Being able to generate a good rate with the right margin
• 42:25
  profile and be able to respond to a customer within a under a
• 42:30
  minute. You know, they send the e-mail
• 42:32
  in and less than a minute later, you know, here's what I got for
• 42:35
  you. And that's all done through
• 42:37
  automation and that's AI plus all the other workflow things
• 42:41
  that we, we deliver on platform. That's way different than a
• 42:45
  person getting it, having to translate it, key it into a
• 42:48
  system and then go back and engage the customer.
• 42:50
  So the productivity gains in there are huge.
• 42:52
  And that's just one use case. The other use case that we're
• 42:55
  using is on the capacity aspect of it.
• 42:58
  So carriers will often send emails all over to brokers in
• 43:01
  the Dallas saying I've got empty trucks in the city.
• 43:03
  I I need free what you got. We're doing the same thing
• 43:06
  there. They send an e-mail in and we're
• 43:08
  responding back with here's the freight I have for you, you
• 43:11
  know, all automated all through AI and workflow and integration
• 43:16
  with the rest of the systems platform and then responds on
• 43:19
  its own without like human being like interceding there that
• 43:24
  responds as if you were it responds like your human being
• 43:27
  would respond. So it's, it's combining the AI
• 43:31
  capabilities of understanding unstructured data and turning it
• 43:35
  into structured data and also then responding with something,
• 43:38
  you know, a response. And then in between that is all
• 43:42
  the business process and workflow that you have that a
• 43:44
  user would use to price that same freight.
• 43:46
  It's just the AI is talking to that and now presenting it back,
• 43:50
  right. And then we are, we're now we're
• 43:54
  going down to multi channel, you know, conversational AI as we
• 43:57
  like to call it, where it could be an e-mail, it could be a
• 44:01
  voice phone call. I could make a phone call using
• 44:04
  a combination of workflow and AI.
• 44:06
  So I could call you, you could call in and say, hey, what's the
• 44:08
  status of my load? You know, it's supposed to be
• 44:11
  here at 3. Is it on time?
• 44:12
  And we ingest that voice call, we hand it off to both AI and
• 44:18
  workflow and we respond back to you with a voice.
• 44:20
  Like my voice could be my voice. I'd say, yeah.
• 44:23
  Anthony, your shipments on time, showing on time should be there
• 44:25
  at 3. Anything else I can help you
• 44:27
  with? No.
• 44:27
  OK, good. OK, Thank you.
• 44:29
  But I'm not actually. Talking to you, I'm talking to
• 44:32
  the AI. Exactly, yeah.
• 44:34
  You're talking to a combination of AI, workflow, telephony.
• 44:37
  There's a whole technology mash up there, but AI is part of it
• 44:41
  for the more conversational aspects of, you know, ChatGPT,
• 44:45
  right? You ask it a question that comes
• 44:46
  back with an answer. It's not a pre canned answer.
• 44:49
  It's what the AI delivers as the answer and now you're speaking
• 44:53
  that back. So it's more conversational in
• 44:55
  nature. That's where the AI think comes
• 44:57
  in real handy on The Voice side. You know, the rest of it is all
• 45:00
  the other things that person would do in the TMS.
• 45:03
  It's just orchestrated, you know, in that workflow, data
• 45:07
  integration and AI combination. It's incredible.
• 45:11
  Yeah. I mean, we're talking about a
• 45:12
  couple of things here that are incredible.
• 45:14
  And the the the first part of it sort of the front and you know,
• 45:17
  having the human like voice that responds and very conversational
• 45:22
  like that's being applied in other spaces still amazing.
• 45:26
  And then so you guys are taking some form of that tech and
• 45:28
  you're combining it with all the back end data that you've got so
• 45:33
  that you didn't have to take a customer service rep's time to
• 45:37
  go and look and research. It knows right where to pull the
• 45:40
  data from it puts it in this human like voice package and
• 45:45
  delivers the answer to the customer.
• 45:47
  And, and what's that sort of time frame?
• 45:50
  I asked the question. I get the answer back in a few
• 45:53
  seconds, several seconds. What's how's that?
• 45:56
  Work. It's highly conversational.
• 45:58
  So it's almost as if like we're talking about today, you know,
• 46:01
  you asked the question, there's probably a slight in most cases,
• 46:05
  a little pause off of a normal conversation, but not, not bad.
• 46:10
  I mean, we're skeptics. I will tell you when this was
• 46:13
  all hitting, we're like, I don't know if that dog, you know, you
• 46:15
  know, hunts, right? And, and sure enough, you know,
• 46:18
  as you go through some of the, some of these use cases, and
• 46:21
  especially in the logistics as a 24 by 7 world, you know, you've
• 46:24
  got people moving on the roads all day, all night and things
• 46:27
  happen and they need to get a hold of somebody or they need a
• 46:29
  quick question, answer it. It's a very effective way to get
• 46:33
  that on that Channel done. Of course, you always have the
• 46:36
  option to say, I need to talk to somebody and it opts out and you
• 46:39
  know, you can route that call to somebody else.
• 46:42
  But I, I see a lot of upside to this, you know, in this multi
• 46:45
  channel concept, you know, combination of AI making it more
• 46:49
  of a human like experience versus a very structured, you
• 46:52
  know, flow experience. And we've all.
• 46:54
  Experienced push one for this push. 2 for you exactly.
• 46:57
  Yeah, those are Yeah. So, and it's just scratching the
• 46:59
  surface. So it's only going to get better
• 47:01
  and better and better and so and which presents a challenge.
• 47:06
  It's an opportunity and a challenge too, right?
• 47:07
  You know, you got a lot of people doing these jobs today.
• 47:10
  And so, you know, how do you now redeploy those folks for more
• 47:13
  productive, productive work or, you know, do Or are you laying
• 47:17
  people off, you know, so you can see how disruptive it could be.
• 47:20
  And our philosophy has always been, you know, try to you're
• 47:24
  going to have to balance that now, you know, with your your
• 47:27
  hiring functions, because some of these things will for all the
• 47:33
  kind of we call happy pass, you know, mundane, repetible,
• 47:36
  repeatable things will probably be very well handled by AI and
• 47:40
  by AI enabled flows like this in the coming years across all
• 47:44
  industries. And it will probably reduce the
• 47:48
  need to have as many people as you have today if that's all
• 47:51
  they're doing. So you're training people to do
• 47:53
  other things that add value to the business.
• 47:55
  I think is also a cultural thing.
• 47:58
  All industries are going to have to deal with with their employee
• 48:01
  bases because of you know what AI will the opportunity AI
• 48:05
  offers. And so how do you handle when
• 48:07
  somebody calls in and they get this AI responder, it, is it
• 48:14
  identifying itself as AI? Is it going to be obvious to
• 48:19
  folks that it's not a human being?
• 48:22
  Yeah. I think that's how we approach
• 48:24
  it, but that's up to really the company deploying it, you know
• 48:28
  how. Are you doing?
• 48:28
  We do. Yeah, we're doing it under the
• 48:30
  brand called Artemis. And Artemis is our persona for
• 48:34
  AI and it's, it's kind of a, it was built off of RTMS, which is
• 48:38
  Revanova, TMSRTMSAI and you. And when you combine all those
• 48:44
  letters, it becomes, it's Artemis spelled that way.
• 48:46
  ARTIMUS in our, our default flows that are pre integrated
• 48:53
  and ready to go because the long pole in the tent for any AI
• 48:55
  deployment is the integration and workflow layer is not the AI
• 48:58
  side of it necessarily. All of our pre integrated
• 49:02
  packaged, you know, cases I described, they all say, Hey,
• 49:06
  I'm Artemis, I'm your AI assistant.
• 49:08
  You know, I'm here to help you and here's what I can do for you
• 49:11
  and and then it does its thing and so they in our world, we say
• 49:16
  it's that you're talking to some AI capability, but that's just a
• 49:21
  prompt. You don't have to do that.
• 49:23
  You can say hi, this is Anthony I'm here to help you you know,
• 49:25
  how can I help you today I have a funny anecdotal story.
• 49:29
  One of our customers, we've been talking about this and, and,
• 49:31
  and, and everybody has different philosophies and that's why it's
• 49:34
  always, these are always optional things.
• 49:35
  But he's like, we have one of our, one of our employees who
• 49:38
  has sort of has a monotone voice.
• 49:40
  And when he talks to customers, he constantly gets, are you AI
• 49:43
  or are you a person? And I said, you know, it's
• 49:48
  funny, but when you have people that are on the other on the
• 49:51
  phone that where they almost can't distinguish it, you know,
• 49:54
  it's very interesting, right, Because usually on, you know,
• 49:57
  voice apps, you can tell right away if you're talking to a, you
• 50:00
  know, a recorded prompt and not some sort of personality, right?
• 50:05
  And and that's the that's the upside of AI think is you can
• 50:08
  kind of develop a personality with it.
• 50:10
  That could be very smart, can be very quick, can be very
• 50:14
  informative and is available 24 by 7 to do, you know, very task
• 50:19
  specific things and over time, many, many, many things.
• 50:22
  And that's where, you know, everybody's business philosophy
• 50:25
  is going to come into play. We have customers who say if
• 50:27
  someone wants to talk, we're going to put a human in front of
• 50:30
  them. And that's a very valid way to
• 50:31
  do business. And there'll be a lot of people
• 50:33
  who, you know, appreciate that. There's others who want to have
• 50:36
  kind of a hybrid, others who are looking to automate everything,
• 50:38
  you know, as much as possible. You know, they call it a digital
• 50:41
  brokerage. Like, no, almost no people.
• 50:43
  Everything happens to the automation.
• 50:46
  We'll see where it goes. You know, we're positioning
• 50:48
  ourselves to have features that can kind of address the needs of
• 50:51
  those three different philosophies.
• 50:53
  So if you want to try to go fully automated across all
• 50:56
  interaction channels, you know, we're going to try to put you in
• 50:59
  a position to be there. And if you want to have a mix of
• 51:01
  that or a hybrid, that's fine too.
• 51:02
  That's your call. As a business, we're just
• 51:04
  enabling, you know, these types of capabilities.
• 51:07
  Exciting times. Mike, what's a serious challenge
• 51:10
  that you've had to overcome in your life, What you learn going
• 51:14
  through that and and how did you get through it?
• 51:18
  Yeah, and and professional or personal side.
• 51:20
  Let's get let's do both one at a time, OK?
• 51:24
  Well, personally, I've had two near death experiences in my
• 51:29
  life. So when I was young and there's
• 51:31
  a scar here that I have, I was rundown by a motorist on my
• 51:34
  bicycle and almost died from that.
• 51:38
  I get my whole neck ripped open and it was not it was not a
• 51:42
  pretty experience, but you you learn a lot from that.
• 51:46
  So that was I was young at when it happened and and it kind of
• 51:49
  changed my whole perspective on life in general that, you know,
• 51:52
  you're moments away from something catastrophic
• 51:55
  happening. So be optimistic.
• 51:58
  You know, I always folks laugh there.
• 52:01
  So you know, how you doing? Every time I wake up on this
• 52:04
  side of the grass is a good day. Let's go make it the best one
• 52:06
  ever. That was the start of that
• 52:08
  philosophy. In 2020, I got COVID and before
• 52:14
  vaccines and anything were available and I got actually, I
• 52:18
  recovered from it. I got a second time, but the
• 52:20
  second time I was hospitalized. And it was, you know, the
• 52:25
  doctors were like, hey, you know, sign off on a ventilator,
• 52:29
  you know, and I'm like, and I'm like, I don't feel like doing
• 52:32
  that. And I said, how about we wait,
• 52:35
  you know, and this was a really interesting question.
• 52:37
  You know, he, he asked me, hey, are you in good with God?
• 52:41
  And I said, you know, I think I am, I'm a, I'm a, you know,
• 52:44
  Catholic and believer and I go God, I go, God has intervened
• 52:47
  once before for me. And he's like, when is that?
• 52:49
  I told him about the car accident story.
• 52:51
  And he's like, OK, because we're going to hold off on this end.
• 52:53
  And, and sure enough, I turned around in a couple days, I was
• 52:57
  out of the hospital and, you know, I didn't, you know, throw
• 53:00
  me on a ventilator. So and of course that was good.
• 53:03
  But again, kind of reinforced my whole life philosophy, which is,
• 53:07
  you know, things can happen quickly, you know, go in itself,
• 53:11
  enjoy your life, you know, bake the best of every day that you
• 53:15
  can and then keep going so that you know, that's those are the
• 53:20
  personal stories. So on that I'm.
• 53:22
  Curious, can you describe in more detail how that changes the
• 53:28
  way that you feel at your core? Is it that things roll off you
• 53:33
  more easily? Is it that you're seeking more
• 53:35
  of the joy than the work? Or, I don't know, kind of help
• 53:39
  us who haven't been through something like that understand
• 53:42
  it. Yeah, I would say that you
• 53:45
  described it well, which is the, the first part of it was at a
• 53:49
  young age was how do you overcome that, right.
• 53:52
  Like here I was, I had over 800 stitches.
• 53:56
  I had the lots, you know, the scar thing and you're young and
• 53:59
  like you, you learn to toughen up for sure.
• 54:02
  You know, because of the physical stuff that you know,
• 54:05
  people, you know, kids are cruel, come at you, you know,
• 54:08
  Frankenstein, blah, blah, blah. And you, you learn that that's
• 54:11
  not important and it's not a reflection on you.
• 54:13
  That's a reflection on them. And so you, you know, you end up
• 54:16
  being, it ended up improving my optimistic view on things and
• 54:21
  also the ability to just deal with all kinds of stuff that
• 54:24
  gets thrown at you. And also realizing that again,
• 54:28
  you know, life is, is, is, is an incredible thing.
• 54:32
  It's very fragile. And yet, you know, you can be
• 54:34
  very resilient to, I mean, surviving.
• 54:36
  That was, you know, the doctors all said, I don't even know how
• 54:38
  you made it to the hospital, but I did and I survived, you know,
• 54:42
  they magnificent doctors. And the same thing with the
• 54:44
  COVID experience, the IT, it changes your philosophy to base
• 54:50
  basically go, there are things that are important in life.
• 54:52
  And the most important thing is you can't do anything unless
• 54:54
  you're healthy. And so I focus a lot on that,
• 54:57
  you know, through nutrition and exercise and stress management,
• 55:02
  you know, because nothing more stressful.
• 55:04
  And someone telling you in both cases, I remember when I was in
• 55:07
  the hospital when I get up in the car and the, and the
• 55:09
  doctor's like, you know, I want to bring like a priest and to
• 55:12
  give him last rites, like we're not sure he's going to make it
• 55:14
  through the night. And I remember the look at my
• 55:17
  father's face and I was like, he might, my dad was a strong World
• 55:21
  War 2 veteran. And he's just was like, he's
• 55:24
  like, I got nothing, you know, and I can see it on his face.
• 55:27
  And he was worried. And that was the first time I
• 55:29
  think I saw my dad worried every time, you know, in my life.
• 55:32
  He was a much more, you know, strong man, like, say, World War
• 55:35
  2 vet, police officer. So he'd seen a lot, been through
• 55:39
  a lot, never fazed by anything. And this phased him big.
• 55:41
  And I was like, oh, you know, am I in trouble here?
• 55:44
  But again, survived it, you know, through a lot of great
• 55:47
  folks on the doctor side that pulled me through.
• 55:49
  And then same thing with COVID, you know, somehow got through
• 55:51
  that and it, it just definitely toughens you up and, and it
• 55:57
  makes you focus on what's important.
• 55:59
  And the first thing again is that your health, your health,
• 56:02
  and then you focus on the things that make sense for you and make
• 56:05
  sure you focus on all the things around you that matter and the
• 56:09
  things that don't matter put off to the side.
• 56:10
  It's kind of going back to like a business philosophy of working
• 56:12
  prioritized lists. I'm a big list manager, but you
• 56:17
  got to prioritize like what's because you know, time is your
• 56:19
  worst enemy. You know, you get, So what are
• 56:21
  you going to spend time on? You do that.
• 56:23
  I do that in my personal life and I do that in my professional
• 56:26
  life. These are the things I got to
• 56:27
  tackle today professionally. These are the things I want to
• 56:29
  focus on personally. And everything else was going to
• 56:32
  just have to wait until I accomplish those things.
• 56:34
  And that's OK, because you can't do everything for everybody all
• 56:38
  the time, right? How about on the professional
• 56:42
  side? Yeah.
• 56:44
  So hurdles we talked about Quintus, of course, we talked
• 56:48
  about probably the ones, probably talked about the ones
• 56:51
  that were the biggest challenges, you know, just
• 56:54
  suddenly getting let go. I mean shop talk, probably
• 56:56
  another one where the investors pulled funding.
• 56:58
  So just showed up one day and the chairman of the board was
• 57:00
  there and I'm like, hey Joanna, what are you doing?
• 57:03
  Talent. She's like, well, I'm here to
• 57:05
  shut the company down. Like really it was a mismatch.
• 57:10
  So it was a marketing company that was trying to get into the
• 57:13
  software space. And I was hired because I had a
• 57:15
  lot of software experience and we were going to try to move
• 57:17
  into the software space. So the sales cycles were
• 57:20
  different, the business was different.
• 57:21
  The investors were misaligned by another good business
• 57:24
  experiences. Are your investors aligned?
• 57:26
  If you're, if you're funded by investors, are they aligned with
• 57:29
  what you're trying to do and the timing in which it's going to
• 57:31
  take to get it done? But so, yeah, so that between
• 57:36
  that one, just bang, you know, companies closed today.
• 57:38
  I decided to go. It was the first and only time I
• 57:41
  filed for unemployment. I said, hey, you know what I'm
• 57:44
  going to do today? I'm going to go down to the
• 57:45
  unemployment office and sat in the room.
• 57:47
  I filled out my form. And you'll laugh at this.
• 57:49
  I I filled out the form and I'm sitting there with a bunch of
• 57:51
  folks in the room. And and then also know, like Mr.
• 57:54
  Horwath, will you please come to the front?
• 57:56
  I'm like, Oh my God, what did I do wrong?
• 57:57
  I did Kenny. I was like, did I really miss?
• 58:00
  She got some. She goes, you can go your form
• 58:02
  looks fine and she goes that's I don't always get, you know,
• 58:05
  forms filled out correctly. So I went home, my wife cheaper.
• 58:10
  In the unemployment line, my. Wife's like, what are you doing
• 58:13
  at home? I go, well, they closed the
• 58:15
  company today and I have no job. And she's like, oh, you know, of
• 58:18
  course she's panicking, but I've never panicked on that stuff.
• 58:21
  I always felt like, again, going back to that why not me
• 58:24
  philosophy that I've had like, why not me?
• 58:26
  I mean, I grew up in a my bet, my mom was a secretary of my dad
• 58:30
  was a police officer. You know, I'd argue a middle
• 58:32
  class, you can argue lower middle class, you know,
• 58:35
  neighborhood. I went to a public high school
• 58:37
  and went to Northern Illinois University, which I loved,
• 58:39
  funded it myself mostly with a small student loan, which I paid
• 58:43
  off by the way. And and you know, people say,
• 58:48
  oh, you can't, you know, you can't compete with the Ivy
• 58:51
  Leaguers. You can't do that.
• 58:52
  You can't. People constantly would come out
• 58:54
  of the woodwork and I'd say I got to say interesting idea or
• 58:56
  something like that. And you know, I always had the
• 59:00
  philosophy is why not me? And yes, I can, you know, don't
• 59:02
  get in my way. I've, I've, I've got things I
• 59:05
  want to accomplish and I'm going to go for them.
• 59:06
  And just, you know, it's about, I think it's a lot about your
• 59:10
  intangibles, right? It's about your perseverance,
• 59:12
  it's about your attitude, it's about your optimism, it's about
• 59:15
  your work ethic. You can learn a lot of things in
• 59:17
  college, you know, that you will use and you won't use.
• 59:20
  But I think that the intangibles, the personality
• 59:22
  traits, things like that, that you learn along the way from
• 59:25
  mentors, from family, from friends, I think are bigger
• 59:28
  indicator of whether or not you're going to be a success in
• 59:31
  life or not. Because if you just stick to it
• 59:34
  and and keep learning, you know, I try to learn all the time.
• 59:37
  I never stop learning, read, you know, watch podcast, do things,
• 59:41
  always try to learn something new every day of as you go
• 59:47
  through life, because you know, there's just so much to know and
• 59:51
  you never know what's going to help you in a situation that's
• 59:53
  at some point in time. So just keep expanding your
• 59:55
  knowledge base. Like that?
• 59:58
  Why not me? Philosophy.
• 1:00:01
  Was that there before your first near death experience?
• 1:00:05
  Was that already part of you? No.
• 1:00:07
  I don't think so. You know, I was young at the
• 1:00:09
  time and I think that just was sort of an eye opener on, you
• 1:00:12
  know, just how to live life and and be aware of your
• 1:00:15
  surroundings and be more cautious.
• 1:00:16
  You know, there was kind of a the why not me thing happened, I
• 1:00:20
  think as I started in my career and and you know, probably the
• 1:00:25
  first challenge was, you know, hey, you're the Midwest sales
• 1:00:27
  guy. You know, you'll never
• 1:00:28
  outperform the West Coast salespeople on the East Coast.
• 1:00:30
  They got better territories. They get this, they get that.
• 1:00:33
  They're always the top. I remember taking that as a
• 1:00:35
  personal challenge going, OK, I'm going to outsell, I'm going
• 1:00:38
  to, I want to be the number one guy in the company.
• 1:00:39
  You know, that's that's my goal, you know, and, and said, how do
• 1:00:43
  I do it? Right.
• 1:00:44
  So just started to go after it and I said working lists, doing
• 1:00:50
  the things that I learned initially from Doctor Holland,
• 1:00:53
  you know, have a process, learn how to prospect, how to overcome
• 1:00:56
  objections. I just started applying what I
• 1:00:58
  had learned and just, you know, gain a ton of experience and
• 1:01:00
  just kept going at it. And then when I saw success
• 1:01:04
  there, I think is when I got to the why not me?
• 1:01:06
  I, I did it, why not me? Why can't I do the next big
• 1:01:09
  thing? Why can't I taste of success
• 1:01:12
  after somebody told you you couldn't do it and you proved
• 1:01:14
  that you could, that that's kind of where the switch went up?
• 1:01:19
  Yeah, I think that was a big part of it was real weird
• 1:01:21
  anecdotal stories I could tell you too.
• 1:01:23
  You know, I'm a musician. I I play bass guitar and guitar
• 1:01:26
  and, you know, can hack my way around a keyboard and a few
• 1:01:28
  other instruments. And I remember a guy that was
• 1:01:31
  probably my age at the time was, was in a band and we were a
• 1:01:34
  bunch of teenagers playing in the garage.
• 1:01:35
  And he's like, you guys sound good, but how come no one's
• 1:01:37
  singing? And we're like, well, none of us
• 1:01:40
  know how to sing. He's like, why don't, Why not,
• 1:01:42
  you know, give it a try, you know, do these things, you know,
• 1:01:44
  so we all started doing it. We got pretty good at it.
• 1:01:47
  And that's that was Mr. Vino. I forgot.
• 1:01:49
  I mean, I'm like, yeah, you know, he's right.
• 1:01:50
  Why didn't we try this? Like, you know, so I think there
• 1:01:53
  were Nuggets of that through life that you get right.
• 1:01:56
  And and it's it's you just, you know, you you take those things
• 1:02:00
  and they might even be, you might not even be conscious of
• 1:02:04
  them. You know, they might be
• 1:02:05
  subconscious things that you've learned in the past that
• 1:02:09
  contribute to that. But certainly, Yeah, Well, as I
• 1:02:12
  got into the professional world and people were very skeptical
• 1:02:15
  about, you know, you'll never be able to do that or you can't do
• 1:02:17
  that or how are you going to start a company?
• 1:02:20
  You know, there were people that said, yeah, you can, you know,
• 1:02:22
  that were mentors that said you can do that, man, you're smart
• 1:02:25
  enough. So he had good people.
• 1:02:26
  And I think that's a great thing for anybody that's, you know,
• 1:02:30
  young in the industry or just, you know, building their careers
• 1:02:32
  is fine. Gravitate to those mentors and
• 1:02:36
  just you absorb as much as you can from the good people that
• 1:02:39
  you work with that are willing to be mentors.
• 1:02:41
  And if you are someone who's got a lot of experience, mentor the
• 1:02:44
  younger people coming up behind you, you know, give them and
• 1:02:47
  still these types of things in them.
• 1:02:49
  Because I, I tell you, I say this to our team a lot.
• 1:02:52
  You know, you guys can do this, you know, like that's one of the
• 1:02:55
  challenges as a founder is, is stepping back, right.
• 1:02:57
  You know, is, is getting out of the day-to-day details like as
• 1:03:00
  we grew the company from, you know, 15 people where I was
• 1:03:03
  involved in so much and now almost 9, almost 100 now where
• 1:03:08
  I'm not involved in a day-to-day.
• 1:03:09
  And I I committed to the people that you know, that or I used to
• 1:03:13
  do those jobs and look like I'm not going to helicopter you.
• 1:03:15
  You're smart enough, you're good enough.
• 1:03:16
  You can do this. If you need my help or you have
• 1:03:19
  a question always here for you, but I'm not going to helicopter
• 1:03:22
  you. I'm not going to tell you what
• 1:03:23
  to do. You're going to do this.
• 1:03:25
  You can do this. Then you need people in your
• 1:03:27
  life that tell you that too. You know, not just the
• 1:03:30
  naysayers. And you know, you don't have to
• 1:03:32
  overcome that personally, but you do need people that can
• 1:03:35
  reinforce that you can do. Things you need a cheerleader?
• 1:03:38
  Absolutely. I've just got one more.
• 1:03:40
  Question coming to Chief morale. They used to call me Chief
• 1:03:43
  morale, that CMO, like chief Morale Officer, because you
• 1:03:45
  always come in here and you're always pumping everybody up.
• 1:03:48
  But I think that's important. I I think it's easy to get
• 1:03:50
  distracted by what's not going right and not and not, you know,
• 1:03:54
  also, I mean, mindset is everything that are going right.
• 1:03:56
  Yeah, mindset's everything. And so you, if you can help put
• 1:04:00
  your team into the right mindset, you can do this.
• 1:04:04
  We are capable. We've got a great product.
• 1:04:06
  We can overcome whatever obstacle is there.
• 1:04:10
  You're you're sort of greased in the slide, right?
• 1:04:14
  Absolutely. You know, I told everybody,
• 1:04:16
  look, when we started Revanova, nobody even knew what it meant,
• 1:04:19
  what it was. There was no, you know, who are
• 1:04:21
  you guys? I mean, we have, you know,
• 1:04:23
  formidable customers now, you know, very, very successful
• 1:04:26
  customers, household names. I go we have a lot going for us.
• 1:04:30
  You know, of course there's always challenges, you know, any
• 1:04:33
  product company, it's evolving. You know, there's always things
• 1:04:35
  you don't have that you wish you had.
• 1:04:37
  Now it's going to take you months to get there and you
• 1:04:39
  just, you have to always, you know, you also also focus on all
• 1:04:42
  the great things you already have, right?
• 1:04:45
  You can't just focus on the things you don't have.
• 1:04:46
  So it's it's this optimism I've always had, you know, an
• 1:04:49
  optimistic kind of after those near death experiences is you
• 1:04:52
  just have to be an optimist, you know, otherwise, why live life?
• 1:04:56
  Why be a pessimist? Why be cranky and crabby all
• 1:04:59
  day? Like, no way, that's not going
• 1:05:00
  to be me. I'm going to going out on a
• 1:05:02
  happy note, going out with a smile.
• 1:05:05
  I love it. Before I ask my last question,
• 1:05:07
  Mike, I just want to take care of a few housekeeping items
• 1:05:10
  here. Anyone who wants to get in touch
• 1:05:12
  with Mike, you can look him up on LinkedIn, Michael Horvath,
• 1:05:16
  and look for Rebenova in that search.
• 1:05:19
  We'll also include a link to that.
• 1:05:21
  His company is revanova.com, Rev en-o-v-a.com, and then his
• 1:05:27
  e-mail address is mhorvath@revanova.com.
• 1:05:30
  Again, links to all that will be in the show Nuts for this.
• 1:05:33
  And as a reminder, if you want to get more employees access to
• 1:05:36
  benefits that aren't going to hurt them financially and
• 1:05:38
  carries a financial upside for the company, reach out to add
• 1:05:41
  back benefits.com. And finally, if you take just a
• 1:05:44
  moment to leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast
• 1:05:47
  app, we will be forever grateful.
• 1:05:49
  So last question for you, Mike, you and I reconnect one year
• 1:05:52
  from today and you are celebrating something big.
• 1:05:55
  What's that big thing you hope to be celebrating one year from
• 1:05:58
  now? Well, I guess, and that I'm
• 1:06:03
  still here, that'd be a good one.
• 1:06:07
  And that, you know, we're launching, we, we, we were
• 1:06:11
  launching into the, the fleet space as a company.
• 1:06:14
  So the company goal for, you know, a year from now is that we
• 1:06:17
  are a player on the fleet side of the, of the industry.
• 1:06:21
  So carriers that are looking to for ATMSA year from now, I'm
• 1:06:26
  hoping, hey, those are guys, you should look at them.
• 1:06:28
  They got something pretty cool. We have a we're launching, we've
• 1:06:31
  been soft launching that for some period of time.
• 1:06:34
  We're going to go in a big way starting Q1 of 26.
• 1:06:38
  So we're we have a few launch partners.
• 1:06:41
  It'll be some well known names that people would be like, wow,
• 1:06:44
  they bought Revanova for their fleet and they're like, yes,
• 1:06:46
  they did so, but that's not been publicly announced yet.
• 1:06:50
  So hopefully you're from now we'll be talking a lot about
• 1:06:52
  that as a business. Terrific.
• 1:06:54
  Well, my core math from Revanova, I want to be the first
• 1:06:57
  to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us
• 1:06:59
  today. I really appreciate it.
• 1:07:01
  Oh thank you, this was quite enjoyable and I'd love to come
• 1:07:05
  back if you've got another topic you want to talk about.
• 1:07:08
  I'll take you up on that, folks. That's a wrap on another episode
• 1:07:11
  of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us
• 1:07:13
  today.