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Selects: How Manhunts Work · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody be on the lookout. APB, middle aged white
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Speaker 1: male podcaster on the loose, guilty of bad jokes. Manhunt underway.
0:14
Speaker 1: That's right, everyone, how man hunts work? December sixteenth, twenty thirteen.
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Speaker 1: Enjoy it right here, right now.
0:21
Speaker 2: Now I've got to go.
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Speaker 3: I'm on the LAMB. Welcome to Stuff you should know,
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Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio.
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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's
0:39
Speaker 2: child Chuck Bryant. Guest producer Noel is hanging out with
0:42
Speaker 2: us for today. Noel, and that makes the stuff you
0:46
Speaker 2: should know the podcast. That's right. I gotta come in
0:50
Speaker 2: with something different to call it, so you should know
0:53
Speaker 2: the podcast. It's boring.
0:56
Speaker 3: We're the explanerators infocast, right, I don't know.
1:02
Speaker 2: Podcast is what it is? Edertainment? Chuck. Yes, do you
1:07
Speaker 2: know of a man named James Earl Ray? Yeah? Yeah,
1:11
Speaker 2: a jerk, Yes, I saw him. I saw him referred
1:15
Speaker 2: to as dim witted. Oh really yeah, which makes his
1:18
Speaker 2: escape pretty thrilling and yeah, suspect. Really well, let me
1:22
Speaker 2: give you a little back out. So, James Earlray was
1:24
Speaker 2: a Missouri prison escape ee when he rolled into Memphis
1:28
Speaker 2: to assassinate Martin Luther King Junior, Yes, who was in
1:32
Speaker 2: Memphis to support the sanitation workers strike there in nineteen
1:36
Speaker 2: sixty eight. And James Earl Ray got a room across
1:40
Speaker 2: the street from the Lorraine Hotel where MLKA was staying,
1:44
Speaker 2: apparently published in the papers not only where he was staying,
1:48
Speaker 2: but his room number, which I guess was custom at
1:50
Speaker 2: the time. Actually, from what I understand, it was customary. Okay,
1:53
Speaker 2: it wasn't unheard of. And James Rolway got a room,
1:57
Speaker 2: found out that he had a decent shot at the
2:00
Speaker 2: balcony outside of King's room if he leaned out of
2:04
Speaker 2: the bathroom the shared bathroom of his communal hotel and
2:10
Speaker 2: shared bathroom huh, shared bathroom down, So somebody could have
2:13
Speaker 2: gone in and been like, oh sorry, sir, pretty much
2:15
Speaker 2: didn't see you in here with that rifle, with that
2:17
Speaker 2: huge hunting rifle. Yeah, Well he got a shot off,
2:21
Speaker 2: he killed MLK, and he ran out of this place
2:25
Speaker 2: that was referred to as a flophouse, and he left
2:27
Speaker 2: behind valuable evidence with his prints on it, namely the rifle,
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Speaker 2: a bundle of his clothing, and some other stuff that
2:34
Speaker 2: they used to create a trail for James Rolway, got
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Speaker 2: a name, eventually got a picture, and James Roway made
2:41
Speaker 2: it out of Memphis and he actually made it to Canada,
2:45
Speaker 2: and he made it to Portugal and then the UK.
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Speaker 2: And the way he made it was under an assumed passport,
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Speaker 2: which for a dim witted Missouri prison escapee, a forged passport.
3:02
Speaker 2: That's pretty heavy stuff.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was probably easier back then.
3:06
Speaker 2: Well, okay, you know he was traveling under the name
3:09
Speaker 2: George Ramon Snead right, Yes, And they found out that
3:13
Speaker 2: he was traveling under that name because Canadian police, after
3:17
Speaker 2: being contacted by American authorities with a picture of James Roway,
3:22
Speaker 2: went through about one hundred and fifty thousand passports that
3:27
Speaker 2: they had accepted. I guess they had copies of them, yeah,
3:32
Speaker 2: I think about it, and then finally found one that
3:34
Speaker 2: looked like James Rolray found out that the person traveling
3:38
Speaker 2: under that passport was in fact at Heathrow Airport or
3:41
Speaker 2: in London. Yeah, and when he went to Heathrow Airport,
3:44
Speaker 2: they apprehended him and he said, you got me. I'm
3:46
Speaker 2: James Olwray and I killed MLK.
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Speaker 3: Imagine that was tough because everyone back then looked like
3:51
Speaker 3: James Rolray.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much.
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Speaker 3: You know, all those dudes looked the same back in
3:55
Speaker 3: the fifties, although this was the sixties, but he still
3:58
Speaker 3: looked like that in the fifties.
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Speaker 2: Looked fifties ish, he did.
4:02
Speaker 3: And he confessed and then later on, of course, recanted
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Speaker 3: and said no, I was part of a plot and
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Speaker 3: a conspiracy, and they said ts.
4:12
Speaker 2: Well, actually the King family said, you know what, we
4:14
Speaker 2: think this guy's telling the truth, and they got a
4:17
Speaker 2: new trial brought and he died in prison before he
4:20
Speaker 2: could be brought to trial again.
4:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the late nineties. Yeah, and then you two
4:25
Speaker 3: wrote a song about it. What song it was, the
4:28
Speaker 3: song Pride in the Name of Love? Oh yeah, early
4:31
Speaker 3: morning April four.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that came before James lay. Yeah, what do
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Speaker 2: you mean you said, and then you two wrote it
4:39
Speaker 2: was just missing You confused me for a second.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know if it was early morning either,
4:44
Speaker 3: for I think for some reason I always heard that
4:46
Speaker 3: Bono got that one wrong.
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Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, I'll have to look that up.
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Speaker 3: I'm not sure what time it was.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure we could find out.
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Speaker 3: But Bono wouldn't say that morning is like a state
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Speaker 3: of mind or something. I'm cool, got on blue sunglasses always.
5:00
Speaker 2: So the humph for James Earl Ray is just one example.
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Speaker 2: History is littered with manhunts, and what's strange about that
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Speaker 2: is that no manhunt really resembles other man hunts.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's weird, like you can hole
5:19
Speaker 3: up in the woods for years and then eventually get caught,
5:23
Speaker 3: or if you're a whitey Bulger, you can go out
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Speaker 3: in your driveway in Santa Monica and get caught. Like
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Speaker 3: I guess, no manhunt is the same, because no going
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Speaker 3: on the lamb is the same. Some prefer hideen plane
5:35
Speaker 3: sight deal, some prefer the middle of the woods. Some
5:38
Speaker 3: people prefer you know, Bolivia.
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Speaker 2: Sure you know, Nazis. What would you do if I
5:44
Speaker 2: were on the run.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, on the lamb, I would. I would probably be
5:47
Speaker 3: a woodland creature.
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Speaker 2: I don't know, But even if I did know, I
5:52
Speaker 2: wouldn't say on the podcast because that'd be pretty dumb.
5:54
Speaker 2: If in case I ever do need to go on
5:56
Speaker 2: the lamb in the future.
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Speaker 3: Although the hide and plain sight thing is there's something
5:59
Speaker 3: to be said for that.
6:00
Speaker 2: Sure you know, Yeah, Well, I mean you've got to
6:02
Speaker 2: get some plastic surgery done in this day and.
6:04
Speaker 3: Age, Yeah, or just mesh your face up a little bit.
6:07
Speaker 2: Well, actually, with Whitey Bulger, he was on the LAMB
6:10
Speaker 2: with his longtime girlfriend Catherine Grieg I believe her name was,
6:15
Speaker 2: and she had extensive plastic surgery.
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Speaker 3: And which had nothing to do with being on the LAMB.
6:21
Speaker 2: They well, they she actually got them found. Oh really, yeah,
6:28
Speaker 2: they're so. Whitey Bulger was on the LAMB for sixteen years, right, Yeah,
6:33
Speaker 2: and it was he was up there with Osama bin
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Speaker 2: Laden as one of America's most wanted fugitives. There was
6:40
Speaker 2: a million dollar bounty on it. Said it was big time,
6:43
Speaker 2: and whenever they found out that he had been somewhere
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Speaker 2: where they thought he was somewhere, the FBI would take
6:51
Speaker 2: out thirty second commercials on TV, yeah, saying have you
6:54
Speaker 2: seen this man? Have you seen this woman? This woman
6:56
Speaker 2: is known to frequent hair salons. This guy's Whitey Bulger.
6:59
Speaker 2: You know the FBI if you see them in the
7:02
Speaker 2: area during times when his girlfriend's demographic, Yeah, would be
7:07
Speaker 2: watching TV. Oh sure, So this served a twofold purpose.
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Speaker 2: One if she saw it and he saw it, then
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Speaker 2: it would scare him and hopefully flush him out of hiding,
7:16
Speaker 2: because it's a lot easier to catch somebody out in
7:18
Speaker 2: the open.
7:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is a common tactic, right.
7:21
Speaker 2: Or two, the people that she might be friends with
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Speaker 2: and associate with could be watching TV at the time
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Speaker 2: and drop a dime on her. And in fact, that's
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Speaker 2: what happened.
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Speaker 3: Someone like some lady who gave her a pedicure.
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Speaker 2: Add a hair salon really called and said, I think
7:35
Speaker 2: this woman that you're looking for is here, and this
7:37
Speaker 2: is her address, And the cops went to the to
7:39
Speaker 2: the apartment said sir, it looks like somebody broke into
7:44
Speaker 2: your storage unit here around the corner. And why he
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Speaker 2: bowls your steps outside and they go clink clank.
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Speaker 3: Why did they even say that? Could they not go
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Speaker 3: inside or something?
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Speaker 2: I guess they didn't have enough probable cause they had
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Speaker 2: to lure him outside. I love that. That's okay, right.
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Speaker 3: It's not okay them in, but it's okay to lie
8:01
Speaker 3: and say that your story unit's busted into.
8:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, surprise he feel for that too. Yeah, I'm sure
8:06
Speaker 2: he is too.
8:07
Speaker 3: He might have gotten lazy after sixteen years.
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Speaker 2: I don't think so, man. I think he was really
8:11
Speaker 2: wound up pretty tight. I read a long form article
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Speaker 2: by a neighbor of his, a young guy who befriended
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Speaker 2: him over the years, and he said he was wound
8:20
Speaker 2: up real tight, always on the lookout. Did he write
8:22
Speaker 2: a book seem cagey?
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Speaker 3: He will called like neighbor to the mob?
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Speaker 2: Pretty I'm sure, Matthew Modine.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, if I liok next to Whitey Bull dread, that
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Speaker 3: book would be on the shelves right now, sure, and
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Speaker 3: it would be called neighbor to the mob.
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Speaker 2: I wonder what Aaron Cooper's going to make that? So
8:43
Speaker 2: who else we got? John Wilkes Booth.
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Speaker 3: He famously went on the lamb for a pretty short
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Speaker 3: time after he shot Lincoln twelve days and ended up
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Speaker 3: in a farmhouse where there's all kinds of stories on
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Speaker 3: how he might have died, whether he was burned alive
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Speaker 3: or whether he was truly rooted out by the fire
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Speaker 3: and then shot.
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Speaker 2: Did you die instantly? Did you linger for a while?
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Speaker 3: But either way, manhunts have been around as long as
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Speaker 3: people have been killing people.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there are some principles that do kind of
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Speaker 2: hold true for all man hunts across the board, and
9:16
Speaker 2: pretty much one of them is get the public involved. Yeah,
9:21
Speaker 2: because when you do that time and time again, manhunts
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Speaker 2: have shown that, like, somebody out there has seen this
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Speaker 2: person recently and will call right.
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Speaker 3: Especially these days with technology, with like everyone having a
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Speaker 3: camera in their pocket basically, or sharing on social media,
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Speaker 3: or being up to the second with news reports. It's
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Speaker 3: like it's made manhunts easier.
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Speaker 2: Yes, And then the other factor that makes for a
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Speaker 2: successful manhunt is having a lot of people doing a
9:49
Speaker 2: lot of grunt work. Like, yeah, the Canadian officials going
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Speaker 2: through all of those passports to try to find one
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Speaker 2: that looked like James Rolay.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder how many people they visited before him,
10:01
Speaker 3: like the other twelve guys that look just.
10:02
Speaker 2: Like Cancel, Like, it's not me, so all right, Chuck.
10:26
Speaker 2: So let's say that somebody's on the run in the
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Speaker 2: United States and it's not it's not a big deal.
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Speaker 2: It's not necessarily a national man hunt. It's a it's
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Speaker 2: a regional man hunt.
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Speaker 3: We'll say, Okay, like someone knocked off a liquor store
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Speaker 3: and shot somebody and was on the loose. Yeah, in
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Speaker 3: a neighborhood.
10:43
Speaker 2: I want to find that guy. What do you do?
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Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you asked, because I've done this.
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Speaker 2: With mirrored sunglasses on. Yeah, Bloodhound.
10:53
Speaker 3: The first thing you gotta do, my friend, is contain
10:56
Speaker 3: the area. It's called containment, and it sounds just like
11:00
Speaker 3: what it is. You are basically trying to seal off
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Speaker 3: an area and watch all the possible exits from that area.
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Speaker 3: If it's a neighborhood, I guess you're going to just
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Speaker 3: pick out a certain amount of blockage and shut it
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Speaker 3: down and have cops posted at each street exit right,
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Speaker 3: and just know that we have at least this area
11:22
Speaker 3: completely contained. If this dude is in here, and we're
11:24
Speaker 3: going to say, guys, because how many times do women
11:27
Speaker 3: do stupid stuff like this and go in the lamb?
11:28
Speaker 2: Not much? You know? Sure? Have you not heard of
11:31
Speaker 2: thellman Louise?
11:33
Speaker 3: That's like the one thing.
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Speaker 2: So if you do have an area contained, what you
11:37
Speaker 2: want to do is not just not let anybody in
11:40
Speaker 2: or out without finding out if it's the person you're
11:43
Speaker 2: looking for. Yeah, you also probably want to go door
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Speaker 2: to door and say, hey, are you being held hostage
11:50
Speaker 2: right now? Did some guy with a gun come into
11:53
Speaker 2: your basement window recently? And that's what they did? Actually,
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Speaker 2: or with a twenty square block area when there's parching
12:00
Speaker 2: for the Boston Marathon.
12:01
Speaker 3: Bombers, Yeah, should we talk about those guys real quick?
12:04
Speaker 3: Sure they were jerks too, Yeah, the sarenof brothers. They
12:12
Speaker 3: blew up a couple of pressure cookers fashioned into bombs
12:16
Speaker 3: at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, and the
12:19
Speaker 3: FBI got on it pretty quick with getting photos released
12:24
Speaker 3: of who they thought these guys were, which turned out
12:27
Speaker 3: to be really key because after a kind of a
12:30
Speaker 3: crazy scene where one of them was shot and killed
12:32
Speaker 3: by the police, like throwing bombs at the cops.
12:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was quite a scene. Run over by his brother.
12:38
Speaker 3: And then the one I guess is that Zo Car.
12:42
Speaker 2: The da silent right, Yeah, Joe Kar or Jokar Joe Car.
12:45
Speaker 3: I think he is the one that ended up in
12:48
Speaker 3: a residential neighborhood hiding in a boat under a tarp.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was.
12:54
Speaker 3: They sniffed him off the case with some infrared imaging
12:58
Speaker 3: and basically it was like pred They're like, there's a
13:01
Speaker 3: guy in that boat because I see his red body breathing.
13:04
Speaker 2: Right. So the reason that they found out that the
13:07
Speaker 2: dude was in the boat was because the person who
13:10
Speaker 2: owned the boat was in this area under the security
13:16
Speaker 2: lockdown in containment, and was well aware thanks to the
13:21
Speaker 2: local news and social media and everything else, that they
13:23
Speaker 2: were looking for this guy. So when he saw that
13:26
Speaker 2: there was a dude in his boat, he called the cops.
13:29
Speaker 2: That's how the cops found suspect number two in the
13:32
Speaker 2: Boston bombing case. Right.
13:33
Speaker 3: I bet that was a rush for that guy.
13:35
Speaker 2: I read about like what he said. I think he
13:38
Speaker 2: was kind of scared.
13:39
Speaker 3: I'm sure, because it's pretty obvious, like you see a
13:43
Speaker 3: guy there's a lockdown in your neighborhood, and you see
13:45
Speaker 3: guy go climb under your boat tarp in their backyard.
13:47
Speaker 2: That's him. Yeah, you know, bleeding guy. I think he
13:50
Speaker 2: was bleeding at the time. Even more reason so with
13:54
Speaker 2: the Boston's a great case because it's recent, everybody knows
13:58
Speaker 2: about it, but because it has like so many different
14:00
Speaker 2: points to it that really kind of give you an
14:02
Speaker 2: idea of what a manhunt consists of. So you've got containment,
14:06
Speaker 2: you've got a door to door search, you've got the
14:11
Speaker 2: public transportation being shut down. Yeah, that was a big one.
14:14
Speaker 2: That's part of containment as well.
14:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, they set up a no fly zone, they closed
14:19
Speaker 3: the schools, they closed, they shuttered businesses. It was basically
14:23
Speaker 3: the biggest shutdown of a major US city in history.
14:26
Speaker 2: Right, People who were in the containment area were asked
14:30
Speaker 2: to not leave their house. That horrid news speak. Shelter
14:34
Speaker 2: in place.
14:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, term that just sounds like you should be
14:39
Speaker 3: in a corner like.
14:40
Speaker 2: Shelter in place.
14:41
Speaker 3: Yeah.
14:42
Speaker 2: I remember a tweet from doctor Ruth while that was
14:44
Speaker 2: going on. She's saying, Hey, if you're having the shelter
14:47
Speaker 2: in place, maybe now's a good time to turn off
14:49
Speaker 2: the TV and get intimate with your loved one. I
14:54
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. Wow.
14:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, they say they're still counting up the monies, but
14:59
Speaker 3: it's tallying up to over a billion dollars for that
15:02
Speaker 3: man hunt.
15:02
Speaker 2: What isn't that crazy? Somebody's milking that. You gotta think
15:06
Speaker 2: billion dollars. I got a little sidebar, let's hear it.
15:09
Speaker 3: Not on a man hunt, but President Obama came through
15:13
Speaker 3: my neighborhood a few months ago, like on his way
15:18
Speaker 3: to school indicator for something cool, and literally drove like
15:22
Speaker 3: down the block from my house the motorcade. Did did
15:24
Speaker 3: you run out to him? Well, no, you can't that's
15:27
Speaker 3: my point. Like my friend, you remember Chris Cox, his wife,
15:31
Speaker 3: We ended up being stuck at the same intersection and
15:34
Speaker 3: her house was across the street, like forty feet away.
15:38
Speaker 3: She's like, sir, that is my house. I have a
15:40
Speaker 3: babysitter there. I'm paying, Like, can I just walk across
15:43
Speaker 3: the street. And he was like, nope, no, he would
15:46
Speaker 3: not let her walk across the street and enter her
15:48
Speaker 3: own home.
15:48
Speaker 2: You have no rights. The president is on your street.
15:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he wasn't even It took like another half
15:52
Speaker 3: hour and she's like, I really just need to walk
15:54
Speaker 3: right there, and he wouldn't allow it.
15:56
Speaker 2: Huh.
15:57
Speaker 3: So that's some serious lockdown. Is when the government wants
16:00
Speaker 3: to lock you down, they can lock you down.
16:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so chuck, uh, you do have rights, however.
16:08
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's a good segue.
16:09
Speaker 2: I guess it was a great segue, buddy. Yeah, if
16:14
Speaker 2: you're in if you're being told not to leave your house,
16:17
Speaker 2: first of all, you can technically leave your house, can you.
16:21
Speaker 2: I think you just your risk of being shot at
16:23
Speaker 2: by the police go through the roof. Maybe, So that's
16:27
Speaker 2: a pretty good reason not to leave your house, just
16:30
Speaker 2: out of common sense. You can be enraged. All you
16:32
Speaker 2: want indoors, well, just like any other night, and the
16:37
Speaker 2: police can't just come busting down your door saying is
16:40
Speaker 2: he in here? No, okay, let's go kick down the
16:42
Speaker 2: next door. They can knock and say can we come
16:45
Speaker 2: in and look, and you can say yeah, your nay.
16:49
Speaker 2: If they have probable cause, say one of them saw
16:53
Speaker 2: the suspect run into your house, they can go in
16:55
Speaker 2: after him without asking you.
16:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, Or if they're creeping around your backyard and peeking
16:59
Speaker 3: in your wind, which they can do legally. Yeah, the
17:01
Speaker 3: cops Yeah they can. They could, you know, see somebody
17:06
Speaker 3: they think looks like the suspect and say that's probable cause.
17:09
Speaker 2: There's a there's a loophole big enough to drive like
17:12
Speaker 2: an armored truck through if you're not picking up on that. Yeah.
17:16
Speaker 3: If they need to provide emergency services, they can do that.
17:19
Speaker 2: Yeah. They can say, oh, we thought you you needed CPR.
17:22
Speaker 2: We're glad to see you're okay. Now that we're in
17:24
Speaker 2: your house, we're looking around.
17:26
Speaker 3: Or another big loophole is the exigent circumstances, which I
17:32
Speaker 3: don't know. In the case of Boston, they could probably
17:35
Speaker 3: barge into anyone's home and be covered under that one.
17:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically like there were there's a state of
17:41
Speaker 2: emergency going on, Like the civil law is just out
17:45
Speaker 2: the window because the situation is so dire. And yeah,
17:50
Speaker 2: they argued that this guy was running around with explosives.
17:53
Speaker 2: That's an emergency. Sure, as far as I know, they
17:55
Speaker 2: didn't like go into any houses unbidden though.
17:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're not trying to say, like in a
18:01
Speaker 3: case like that, like bust down some doors, you know,
18:05
Speaker 3: Like I'm not saying like cops shouldn't be doing this stuff. Well,
18:07
Speaker 3: there were like two bombers on the loose, so I
18:09
Speaker 3: get it.
18:10
Speaker 2: Even still, the cops don't want to bust down a
18:12
Speaker 2: door because they're going to have to prove exigence circumstances,
18:16
Speaker 2: and if they can't, then any evidence that they got
18:20
Speaker 2: from an unlawful searches out the door, and so their
18:24
Speaker 2: case could be as well.
18:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta be careful stuff like that. Past thing
18:27
Speaker 3: you want to do is have your purp walk you
18:31
Speaker 3: like all.
18:31
Speaker 2: This cops speak, Yeah walk.
18:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're purp walks because of bad, bad evidence,
18:39
Speaker 3: then you're gonna be uh, what's.
18:41
Speaker 2: What's it called?
18:42
Speaker 3: When the cop gets eighty six eighty six suspended without pay.
18:48
Speaker 3: I'm feeling like we're channeling the TV show episode we Yeah.
18:54
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you're like we had a TV show. Yeah,
18:58
Speaker 2: I just owned out about that. Okay, where are we then? Well?
19:02
Speaker 2: I was saying that one of the hallmarks of a
19:04
Speaker 2: good man hunt is having a lot of people doing
19:07
Speaker 2: a lot of work. And again, Boston was a good
19:10
Speaker 2: example of that. You had a lot of different law
19:12
Speaker 2: enforcement agencies, basically ones you hadn't even heard of, all
19:16
Speaker 2: ponying up personnel.
19:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you're gonna get state cops, local cops, sheriffs, FBI,
19:24
Speaker 3: and that that's for a case like that, or obviously
19:27
Speaker 3: if it's something like UBL then everyone seems you're a
19:31
Speaker 3: dark thirty or if you haven't, you should. You've got
19:34
Speaker 3: like thousands of people over a decade, all over the
19:38
Speaker 3: world working together.
19:39
Speaker 2: It was just that one lady.
19:41
Speaker 3: It was just the one lady, the pretty redhead.
19:44
Speaker 2: So the author of this article makes a pretty good
19:49
Speaker 2: point that during a man hunt there is such a
19:52
Speaker 2: thing as what in police speak would be called collateral damage.
19:56
Speaker 2: I guess sure. Like the LAPD search for Christopher Dorner
20:02
Speaker 2: is a very good example of this. Do you remember
20:05
Speaker 2: that case?
20:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, that was freaky.
20:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's like, there's a Facebook page it's twenty thousand
20:11
Speaker 2: plus people strong that says it's called we Stand with
20:13
Speaker 2: Christopher Dorner. Oh really yeah, because he left behind. So
20:17
Speaker 2: he was an LAPD officer who was fired for making
20:20
Speaker 2: a false accusation against another cop, right when he reported
20:25
Speaker 2: that a cop he was working with kicked a homeless
20:27
Speaker 2: man during an arrest. But that was false. It was
20:31
Speaker 2: found false, and he was fired as a result. From
20:34
Speaker 2: his perspective, if you see it through his through his eyes,
20:36
Speaker 2: that was all just a huge cover up, and they
20:38
Speaker 2: got rid of the troublemaker who was not, you know,
20:41
Speaker 2: going with the flow on the force.
20:42
Speaker 3: The LAPD covering up seas right, that's weird.
20:45
Speaker 2: So he leaves this like angry manifesto about you know
20:49
Speaker 2: how the LAPD is the most corrupt organization on the
20:52
Speaker 2: planet and it's racist and yeah, there's a lot of
20:56
Speaker 2: people out there who are like, I know this to
20:59
Speaker 2: be true. Yeah, I've I've been on the wrong end
21:02
Speaker 2: of a night stick with the LAPD.
21:03
Speaker 3: I've seen LA confidential, Yeah exactly, and that's in the forties. Yeah,
21:07
Speaker 3: I mean it's that's I know they've cleaned it up
21:09
Speaker 3: a lot, but that is one department in this country
21:11
Speaker 3: that's been fraught with allegation.
21:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his point was they haven't cleaned it up
21:15
Speaker 2: a lot, they've just gotten better at PR. So he
21:17
Speaker 2: goes on, he takes the manifesto and ends up going
21:20
Speaker 2: on in assassination killing spree, killing cops. Yeah, killed the
21:26
Speaker 2: woman who represented him in his case, who is the
21:29
Speaker 2: daughter of a cop.
21:31
Speaker 3: And it was announced like that's what's so scary about
21:33
Speaker 3: it was like he was like, Hey, I'm coming to
21:35
Speaker 3: kill cops. Exactly, You're not going to see me coming either.
21:39
Speaker 2: He was on a rampage. Yeah, it was scary stoff.
21:41
Speaker 2: So the LAPD is super jumpy at this point and
21:44
Speaker 2: they fire on not one but two cars that don't
21:49
Speaker 2: have Christopher Dorner in them. Killed two people unbelievable as
21:53
Speaker 2: a result. And finally there's this standoff after they find
21:57
Speaker 2: him thanks to some Ark rangers in Big Bear or
22:02
Speaker 2: Big Sir, one of the two they had Big Bear
22:04
Speaker 2: Big Bear, and he ends up setting the cabin he's
22:08
Speaker 2: in on fire and haishing in flames. That was crazy,
22:11
Speaker 2: But the fact is two different cars were shot on
22:15
Speaker 2: by the LAPD during the search for this guy. So
22:22
Speaker 2: these aren't just necessarily clean affairs. Same with Ben Lawden.
22:26
Speaker 2: You know, this was part of the campaign that took
22:28
Speaker 2: place over a very long time and a lot of
22:31
Speaker 2: people were killed to weaken the structure that was hiding him.
22:36
Speaker 3: Still, yeah, drone strikes out the wazoo.
22:39
Speaker 2: They used some.
22:40
Speaker 3: Pretty interesting tactics too that were not in the movie,
22:44
Speaker 3: even though I've heard the movie is pretty accurate, but
22:47
Speaker 3: they didn't include everything obviously. They sent a doctor in
22:51
Speaker 3: a CIA guy who conducted an immunization drive in the
22:55
Speaker 3: neighborhood where they believed his compound was there and basically
22:59
Speaker 3: hoping to come across DNA from him or his family
23:03
Speaker 3: under the guise of a blood drive.
23:06
Speaker 2: Right, it was an ammunization driver.
23:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't call it like, hey, it's a DNA collection,
23:11
Speaker 3: right drive.
23:12
Speaker 2: But there was a big public outcry, especially from the
23:15
Speaker 2: vaccine establishment, saying like, dude, you can't do that because
23:18
Speaker 2: now our name is on that vaccine right and the
23:20
Speaker 2: next time we want to have a real vaccine drive,
23:23
Speaker 2: no one's going to show up, and our vaccination people
23:25
Speaker 2: are going to get killed because they're going to think
23:27
Speaker 2: they're CIA. Yeah, there's a big beef, a big hubbub
23:31
Speaker 2: about that. That's legit.
23:34
Speaker 3: These days, it's tough, especially if you're in a city
23:37
Speaker 3: like London, England, to do anything without being caught on
23:41
Speaker 3: a closed circuit camera.
23:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:45
Speaker 3: In fact, that's how they eventually identified with the help
23:47
Speaker 3: of actually one of the victims. In Boston, they were
23:52
Speaker 3: on camera too, But if you're in a big city,
23:54
Speaker 3: it's tough to get away with.
23:55
Speaker 2: Anything these days. Cameras are everywhere.
23:58
Speaker 3: They also have I mentioned the infrared device, the forward
24:03
Speaker 3: looking infrared device, night vision. You've got all sorts of
24:07
Speaker 3: tricks up your sleeve as law enforcement agencies. You think
24:12
Speaker 3: you're hiding in a boat under a tarp, that's pretty safe.
24:15
Speaker 3: You don't think about the dude with the predator camera
24:17
Speaker 3: that can see you from you know, fifty feet away,
24:20
Speaker 3: breathing heavily.
24:20
Speaker 2: Right.
24:22
Speaker 3: They also have like armored trucks. I think you mentioned those, yeah,
24:26
Speaker 3: even not even about this.
24:27
Speaker 2: Like from Diehard.
24:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you see those things roll in like I'm
24:30
Speaker 3: sure they love to play with those once a year.
24:32
Speaker 3: Again that was LAPD Yeah, but those are very expensive,
24:37
Speaker 3: but they do come in handy. I guess about once
24:39
Speaker 3: a year if you can afford it, if your town's
24:42
Speaker 3: large enough.
24:43
Speaker 2: We should say that there was facial recognition software that
24:47
Speaker 2: they had working on the video for the Boston bombing
24:51
Speaker 2: and it did not work.
24:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have an article on that. By the way,
24:54
Speaker 3: I think we should cover that at some point.
24:55
Speaker 2: Facial recognition. Yeah, yeah, that's scary stuff. Google has one
25:01
Speaker 2: that like they won't they won't release to the publicly
25:04
Speaker 2: because they're afraid of the use it'll be put to.
25:07
Speaker 2: It's like that good wow, and that potentially bad.
25:11
Speaker 3: But the one the CIA has doesn't work that well.
25:13
Speaker 2: I could see Google having way better algorithms than the CIA.
25:17
Speaker 2: That's true, so chuck. Another aspect of Boston search, the
25:22
Speaker 2: Boston man hunt, yeah, was the use of social media
25:26
Speaker 2: for good and ill or did good effect and bad?
25:29
Speaker 2: I should say, Yeah.
25:31
Speaker 3: Getting the word out on Facebook and Twitter is not
25:32
Speaker 3: a bad idea.
25:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the Reddit was kind of the star of
25:38
Speaker 2: the show or the scapegoat, I should say, for social
25:42
Speaker 2: media in the search for the Boston bombing suspects, because
25:45
Speaker 2: there were apparently like a couple thousand stills, video stills
25:50
Speaker 2: and photographs from the area around the time. Of the
25:53
Speaker 2: bombing posted on a reddit subreddit. Yeah, and all of
25:58
Speaker 2: these people were like combing through like they were trying
26:00
Speaker 2: to crowdsource this man hunt.
26:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is a good intention.
26:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were looking for suspects before anybody ever released
26:07
Speaker 2: any official photos, and that in and of itself is
26:12
Speaker 2: kind of a good idea, sure, but it went a
26:15
Speaker 2: step further where the people on Reddit were saying, Okay,
26:20
Speaker 2: I've got to figure it out, and it's this person,
26:22
Speaker 2: and they would name a suspect, and all of a sudden,
26:24
Speaker 2: there's a rumor out there that this person bombed the
26:28
Speaker 2: Boston marathon, even though they hadn't so read. It took
26:32
Speaker 2: a lot of heat for that, and apparently they even
26:35
Speaker 2: took that forum down. But social media also helped in
26:40
Speaker 2: a lot of ways because everybody was totally connected to
26:45
Speaker 2: this man hunt and had completely up to the date,
26:48
Speaker 2: information to the minute, information from within that containment area,
26:52
Speaker 2: from everywhere, and I guess kind of helped a little
26:56
Speaker 2: more than just passively watching television during a man hunt.
27:00
Speaker 3: You know the point one of my favorite man hunts,
27:02
Speaker 3: and this is weird to say that, but actually, you
27:05
Speaker 3: know what, let's take a break. I'm going to tease that,
27:07
Speaker 3: and I'm going to reveal my favorite man hunt after
27:09
Speaker 3: the break.
27:30
Speaker 2: Okay, So who is it. It's the Unibomber.
27:33
Speaker 3: Oh okay, Yeah, that's Kidzinski was on the LAMB for
27:37
Speaker 3: eighteen years. One of the lengthiest manhunts in US history.
27:41
Speaker 3: Not easy to hide out for that long and he
27:44
Speaker 3: did it, which he did it in the wild of Montana.
27:49
Speaker 2: Just pretty good idea.
27:50
Speaker 3: I guess if you're going to hide out, just drop
27:52
Speaker 3: off the map. Yeah, type manifestos. Actually Montana. They should
27:55
Speaker 3: have been looking there, They should have been going there first.
27:58
Speaker 3: But he mailed sixteen bombs over the course of quite
28:04
Speaker 3: a few years and ended up killing three people, wounding
28:07
Speaker 3: twenty three more, and had a million dollar bounty on
28:11
Speaker 3: his head. Was one of the most wanted and eventually
28:15
Speaker 3: he was rooted out by his own brother, who read
28:18
Speaker 3: one of the manifestos and said that sounds like Teddy Yeah,
28:22
Speaker 3: and went to the cops and said, hey, this guy
28:25
Speaker 3: might be my brother. The writing style, the things he's
28:28
Speaker 3: saying like it very well could be my brother.
28:30
Speaker 2: And it turned out that was him, right, So, which
28:33
Speaker 2: is another another point for the case that for a
28:37
Speaker 2: man hunt to work, you have to get the public involved,
28:39
Speaker 2: and they did so by publishing these manifestos and said,
28:42
Speaker 2: anybody familiar with this? Yeah, and the guy's brother said, yeah, me, Yeah,
28:47
Speaker 2: same with Eric Robert Rudolph. Yeah, that's his name. I
28:51
Speaker 2: don't remember how they caught him.
28:54
Speaker 3: I believe it was hikers in the woods, Okay, turned
28:57
Speaker 3: him in. I might be wrong, but he was definitely
28:59
Speaker 3: hiding out in the woods. And he was, of course
29:01
Speaker 3: the Olympic bomber, not the guy they originally in pended on,
29:05
Speaker 3: which was pretty.
29:06
Speaker 2: Sad, right. What was his name, Richard Jewel? Yeah?
29:09
Speaker 3: Man, I felt so bad for that dude.
29:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:12
Speaker 3: Can you imagine, like life ruined?
29:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they compensated him pretty handsomely afterward. But then
29:19
Speaker 2: he only lived a couple of several million. Oh yeah,
29:22
Speaker 2: he died of a heart attack a few years after that.
29:24
Speaker 3: I don't think I knew that. Yeah, it's because he's like,
29:26
Speaker 3: I'm eating steak in lobster every night. Now ask me
29:29
Speaker 3: the drawn butter or Richard Jewel.
29:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know he died. Yeah, And then so
29:35
Speaker 2: back to online real quick. There's there's evidence that you
29:39
Speaker 2: can crowdsource a man hunt. Yeah, there's a whole group
29:43
Speaker 2: of people that live online that are into true crime,
29:46
Speaker 2: that are that like use their interest in their online
29:50
Speaker 2: search skills to try to find the identities of like
29:53
Speaker 2: long lost serial killers. And there's all sorts of online
29:56
Speaker 2: man hunts that amateurs take on. And apparently the State
30:00
Speaker 2: Department held something called the Tag Challenge where they had
30:04
Speaker 2: people hiding in cities around the world and people had
30:10
Speaker 2: twelve hours online contestants had twelve hours to find them
30:15
Speaker 2: in like these five different cities. That's fun, using just
30:17
Speaker 2: mugshots and it worked. So they found that with a search,
30:23
Speaker 2: as time becomes more of an essence, is the pressure
30:27
Speaker 2: mount people stopped just shooting the info out to wherever
30:31
Speaker 2: they can and start like really targeting, focusing their search.
30:35
Speaker 2: And once you have a bunch of people doing that
30:38
Speaker 2: who are really focused in searching, but a lot of
30:40
Speaker 2: them and sharing information like on social media, that's when
30:44
Speaker 2: they like a search and not just a manhunt or
30:48
Speaker 2: search for a person, but a search for anything becomes
30:52
Speaker 2: most successful.
30:53
Speaker 3: I guess, well, yeah, imagine in Boston, I bet every
30:56
Speaker 3: thousands of people in that twenty square block radius are
31:00
Speaker 3: looking out of their window.
31:02
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for this dude. Yeah, so you've.
31:04
Speaker 3: Got thousands and thousands of more eyeballs. That's two eyeballs
31:08
Speaker 3: per person in most cases, unless you're one of those
31:11
Speaker 3: weird pirates Boston pirates. And that's just that helps you know, yeap,
31:16
Speaker 3: as long as they're not out, don't grab their guns
31:19
Speaker 3: and you know, get in position. Well, yeah, that's a scary.
31:23
Speaker 2: Well that's why they released the pictures of the suspects finally,
31:25
Speaker 2: because they were trying to crack down on online vigil
31:29
Speaker 2: anianism that could lead to real life vigilaniism.
31:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, so hats off to the dude who saw the
31:37
Speaker 3: dude in the boat.
31:40
Speaker 2: You got anything else? I got nothing else? All right, Well,
31:43
Speaker 2: if you want to learn more about manhunts, you can
31:44
Speaker 2: tuck that word in the search bar at house Stuff Works.
31:46
Speaker 2: And since I said search bar, that means it's time
31:49
Speaker 2: for listener mail. Yeah.
31:53
Speaker 3: I'm going to call this Chess about Chess, and I'm
31:56
Speaker 3: gonna read a couple of them, not here, but one
31:59
Speaker 3: now and one another of so because we got a
32:00
Speaker 3: lot of great feedback from Chest enthusiasts, I noticed people
32:04
Speaker 3: dig this game.
32:06
Speaker 2: This is from David Wagner.
32:07
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, while you were discussing the concept of castling,
32:12
Speaker 3: y'all said you didn't quite understand the value or strategy
32:14
Speaker 3: behind it.
32:15
Speaker 2: You're right.
32:16
Speaker 3: It is all about protecting the king. Remember how you
32:18
Speaker 3: pointed out that you want to control the center of
32:20
Speaker 3: the board. Yes, that when your pieces are off to
32:22
Speaker 3: the side, they're not as strong. Yes, well, that has
32:25
Speaker 3: a lot to do with why you want to castle. Basically,
32:27
Speaker 3: the king is more vulnerable, open to attacks and has
32:30
Speaker 3: less protection when he remains in his original ear d square,
32:34
Speaker 3: So you want to castle him and get him away
32:35
Speaker 3: from those center squares.
32:37
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
32:38
Speaker 3: Also, you talk about the en passant rule, which is
32:41
Speaker 3: one of my favorites and something almost.
32:43
Speaker 2: Never pass up.
32:45
Speaker 3: He's not like TV Herman, mostly because I get because
32:48
Speaker 3: I rarely get a chance to implement it. It doesn't
32:51
Speaker 3: happen when a pond passes another pawn though on its
32:55
Speaker 3: first move out. It is when it lands next to
32:58
Speaker 3: another pawn that the latter pond capture it. So I
33:01
Speaker 3: think we screwed that up a little.
33:02
Speaker 2: Ye up, big time? Not big time. We were close. No,
33:06
Speaker 2: I got that way wrong.
33:07
Speaker 3: Okay, one last thing and then I'll quit chess pieces.
33:11
Speaker 3: You're gonna love this, and their's symbols on top. Many
33:14
Speaker 3: of the basic pieces themselves serve as visual reminders of
33:19
Speaker 3: how they can move. For example, the night is l shaped,
33:22
Speaker 3: which is how it moves. The bishop's miter has a
33:24
Speaker 3: diagonal slit in it. They move diagonally. The rook, when
33:28
Speaker 3: seen from above, can move in the basic cardinal directions forward, back, left, right,
33:33
Speaker 3: and on top of the rook there are turrets pointing
33:35
Speaker 3: in all the cardinal directions.
33:36
Speaker 2: Nice.
33:37
Speaker 3: A queen has many points on her crown showing that
33:39
Speaker 3: she can go in any way, any direction, and that
33:42
Speaker 3: small little cross on top of the king lets you
33:45
Speaker 3: know how far he can go, although that doesn't include
33:48
Speaker 3: his diagonomos, which he can.
33:49
Speaker 2: Move in, so that on the whole theory kind of
33:52
Speaker 2: falls apart there a little bit.
33:55
Speaker 3: But that is from David Wagner in Columbia, South Carolina.
33:59
Speaker 2: Nice, Thanks a lot, Wagner. That was a great email, pleasant, approachable,
34:04
Speaker 2: gentle with the correction, just good stuff all around. You
34:07
Speaker 2: can dance to it. You're right man. Way to go, Wagner.
34:11
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34:14
Speaker 2: out to us digitally to say hello or whatever, you
34:19
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34:23
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34:27
Speaker 2: you Should Know, or you can send us an email
34:29
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