Latest / Birth at Work / S2 EP 18 | Jessica Butkus: When Motherhood Meets Career
Transcript
- Krislyn Powell: Hi, Jessica. So excited to have you on the show today. Thank you for joining us. Jessica Butkus: Hello, hello, hello. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Krislyn Powell: Yes, we would love if you could just introduce yourself, share a little bit about you personally, professionally, and then let our listeners know why you joined the show today. Jessica Butkus: Absolutely. So my name is Jessica. I am a mom to two beautiful children. I have a three-year-old boy whose name is Jace and then I have a one-year-old daughter who is Jade. Absolutely love them. Of course, everybody loves their kids, but I love mine. I am currently the director of marketing operations for a company called The Missing Link, which supports people who have MS. It's a membership based platform. for people who have MS to help them regain strength in their daily lives and just live a better, fuller life with MS. And I'm here today because I think moms are making the world go round. And now that so many moms are more into the workforce, I think it's so important to have conversations around what it's like to be a working mom and how we can support each other. So I think it's awesome that you have this. So thanks for giving my voice a place. Krislyn Powell: Yes, absolutely. I'm fellow mom of two over here as well. And so yes, teaming up. We're so excited to have you Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: and share a little bit about what makes you you, about your story, and thanks for interviewing yourself too. So let's dive in. You are a digital marketing and operations leader, like you mentioned, and this is primarily with mission-led organizations. So these sometimes can be centered on women and families. Was this always your focus? Let us know kind of like your career path. know what brought you here and what have been kind of like the shifts along your journey. Jessica Butkus: Yeah, I kind of fell into the marketing world, I always say, because it wasn't something that I was like, I know I want to work in marketing. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was living in New York City trying to have a full-time modeling career. And very quickly, I realized I'm kind of over the modeling world. I had done it since I was about 10, 12 years old. And so was actually nannying for a family, and the mother was very involved in corporate business female world and I thought it was so awesome and she was like, hey I have, know Rebecca Minkoff who's a fashion designer and she's looking for an executive assistant, would you be interested? Because she knew I was really just trying to find a career and something to get into. And so Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: long story short, I ended up working with Rebecca as her executive assistant. Two weeks later, COVID hit and Rebecca was like, I don't need you from working from home as a executive assistant essentially. I just don't need it right now. I'm sorry." She said, but I have another company called Female Founder Collective, which is a big organization of female founders around the world. And I was like, my gosh, yes, absolutely. Anything to just stay Krislyn Powell: You Jessica Butkus: in the world of Rebecca Minkoff, right? Krislyn Powell: yeah. Jessica Butkus: So I'm thinking, okay, I'll do some like admin work for a few weeks. And when the world goes back to normal, I'll go back into the office and have my pretty desk, my nice office job. Krislyn Powell: Yeah Jessica Butkus: No, that didn't happen. I ended up staying with Female Founder Collective for about three years up until I had my son. And it was, I learned so much being in that world and working with other female founders and just the struggles that they went through, the successes that they had. And I just, was so inspired by the work that I was doing. And even though I started as just an admin and doing, you know, these little tasks of importing and exporting different things. I slowly worked my way up to social media manager. So when I say I fell into the marketing world, I really just felt because we were a small team. Everyone was doing a hundred things and they needed help with social. And I'm like, could do that. Like I used to market myself as a model on Instagram and do things like that. Like how hard could it be? It was hard. Krislyn Powell: me. Jessica Butkus: But it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot being there. And then from there, I decided I wanted to work more with a brand that was more focused on moms, given that I had just had my son. So I became the director of marketing at a breastfeeding pumping accessory company. And all they did was create the actual flange that like attached to your breast and it was an angled flange. So it was one of a kind, totally different thing. And I actually started with them as just a graphic designer. Cause I just wanted something like 10 to 20 hours a week so that I could really focus on being home and being a mom. That didn't last long because again, they were a small team and they needed so Krislyn Powell: Yeah Jessica Butkus: much. And the CEO was like, I would send suggestions like, when you post this, like maybe just say this in the caption. And she was like, wait, do you like know how to do this? I was like, yeah, kind of. And then she was like, okay, you're full time now. And I was the social media manager. And then a year later became the director of marketing ops and led our team. And Krislyn Powell: Wow. Jessica Butkus: that was really fun. And I really enjoyed it. It was fun working with other moms and doing things for moms, being kind of. present in the brand itself on social media. I ended up doing a lot of the content creation myself because I was pumping. I was a mom. I was the ideal customer. And that was really fun. We had a lot of fun. And then from there, I was pregnant with my daughter and just wanted to take a little break and slow things down Krislyn Powell: Thank you. Jessica Butkus: a little bit because it was getting a little too much. So I ended up just doing some freelance work for a little bit. And then now that my daughter is 15, 16 months old now, which is so crazy to even say. Krislyn Powell: Yes. Jessica Butkus: it's, like, feel like I just gave birth to her. Krislyn Powell: Yeah Jessica Butkus: but now that she's a lot older, I decided to go back full time. And I just started in December with the Missing Link as the director of marketing operations there. And it is a dream. It is truly, truly a dream to work alongside the team members that I have. Krislyn Powell: congrats and yeah I know I have a seventh month old right now seven month old yeah I can yeah I but Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: it's crazy I'm like I just birthed you like you literally yesterday like how is this so I yeah yes and then Jessica Butkus: It goes so fast. So fast. Krislyn Powell: four-year-old as well which I also feel like how is he four that's crazy that yeah that time flies but wow Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: so and just based off of the career path that you explain it sounds like you're a prime example of like And what I found in, you know, similarly like in my career, it's like when you say yes, like, okay, yeah, I could probably do that. Like, you know, I've done something similar before. It's like, then you just kind of fall into it and opportunities keep coming your way and you can't really, you know. hide your talents and skills, like it was clear like that you had the ability to lean in in a bigger way in different companies and organizations that you've been a part of. And so just sharing your trajectory in the way that you've kind of just been like, yeah, like, I'll try it. I could do this like that. Jessica Butkus: You're a guy. Krislyn Powell: That's just, that's really cool. It's energizing and inspiring. And I think is like a testament to a lot of moms that are listening right now too. Like if you want to try something. Try it, like say yes and then see what happens and just keep going. Jessica Butkus: Absolutely. Krislyn Powell: So, and then kind of backtracking a little bit too. I know the breastfeeding, like the pump company like that, that. experience that you mentioned. I think it was around that time too that you became certified in lactation counseling or consulting. Can you Jessica Butkus: Yes. Krislyn Powell: explain a little bit about that and like how yeah why you got that certification like what that meant for you some other things that you did with that too and and if you're yeah still kind of in that world. Jessica Butkus: Absolutely. I absolutely love the lactation space and I could talk about lactation for hours. When I had my son, I started breastfeeding, thankfully had no issues and it was, we were smooth sailing. Obviously we had our struggles a day here, a day there, whatever, but it was, I was very lucky for the journey I had. And working with this pumping company, I realized how many women don't have that same experience and how different breastfeeding looks for everybody. And so. As I was working with them, I was doing, like I said, a lot of the content creation. So I was making the videos myself, being the one talking. And I had a whole series, FAQ with Jess and our founder, who was actually a 65 year old man. He's like, no, Krislyn Powell: don't know. Jessica Butkus: yeah, he invented the product for his wife like 30 years ago now. It's such a cool story. But he was like, who are you? No offense, but like, who are you to be saying this? And I'm like, no, you're right. And he was like, you need to get your CLC. And I was like, okay. So they helped me go through the classes and I went through and everything and I would do it while I'm breastfeeding my son in the middle of the night watching the video on my laptop, like right on the nightstand for, Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: I don't know, maybe six weeks, eight weeks it took me to finish the course. And then I went for the test, took the test, passed, thankfully. And it was just, it was really cool because I'm, I'm doing all of this work for breastfeeding and pumping and things like that. But yeah, I had no knowledge other than my own experience. So I learned so much about how all these different journeys could really look and how Not everybody has it so easy. that was how I got my CLC license and became a CLC. So I really just used it more for speaking on things and being the face of the brand, essentially, having some type of education background that I wasn't just out here making video saying like, yeah, just put the pump on you, you're good. Krislyn Powell: That is so cool too. And I feel like that's just another level, like another step. You know, had the skill set, you had other education that you had gone through to get where you were in your career, but then why not get more education to be able to actually teach in a way that other people could understand. And from a perspective of like, yes, I am knowledgeable about this. I do have the certification to back it up and I can walk you through it. That's amazing. Jessica Butkus: Exactly. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, just really cool. I'm a big proponent on continuing education and I think that's awesome that your workplace supported you in doing that and they were kind of the ones that were like, why don't you try this? That would be a good idea. Yeah. Jessica Butkus: Yeah, because truthfully, I don't think I would have if they didn't give me that push because I was six months postpartum. I don't need to be taking on a new course or a new certification, but Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: because they pushed for it, I was like, you know what, why not? What's the harm? I learned something new. I'm better at my job now because of it. darn. Krislyn Powell: It's amazing. And I know, so you have two children. And so you've had a couple different return to work transitions, one more recently, and then with your first Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: as well. Can you share a little bit about those stories? you breastfed your babies, right? And Jessica Butkus: Yes. Krislyn Powell: what was it like with the, you know, breastfeeding, return to work transition, accommodations that popped up that you felt like, maybe, you know, you didn't expect going into it, and how did it differ for you between the two kids? I know for me, it's been a little bit night and day, but yeah, I think being a first time mom versus, okay, this isn't my first rodeo, like, yes, walk Jessica Butkus: Absolutely. Krislyn Powell: us through all of that. Jessica Butkus: With my first, Jace, when I had him, I was still working at Female Founder Collective. And it was, I thought it would be a lot different of environment given the work that we did. Unfortunately, it wasn't like that. And I decided that's why I needed to take a step back and work with a brand that was more focused on moms because at that point in my life, I was solely focused on being a mom and work came second. And unfortunately, Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: workplace didn't see it that way, which I think is really sad because it we're all about uplifting women and supporting moms and it just it did unfortunately did not go that way for me. But when I did have my my daughter, I was doing a little bit of freelance work. I stopped working around seven to eight months pregnant with my daughter. So I was still doing a little bit of freelance work up until pregnancy or up until I gave birth to her. And then I returned after four weeks, which I think back now and I'm like, that was absolutely crazy. I can't believe I even did that. But at the time, the person that I was freelancing with was a man, had no desire to have kids, had no wife, had no girlfriend, literally would open his laptop at 6 a.m. and would close it at like 8 p.m. at night. and almost expected everybody that he was working with to do the exact same thing. So that was a big, a big thing. But because I was a freelancer and a contractor, I held my ground. This is what it is. You know, I gave you plenty of notice of when times I would be available, times I wouldn't. And I stuck to it. you know, it just, was what it was. But at that time I was putting myself first, my baby first, and I was in a position to be able to do that. And I know others aren't. So I was very fortunate for that. However, it was a very different experience. There was a few calls that I had done and I had my daughter strapped to me because where else am I gonna put her at the time? Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: Like I'm not just gonna hand her over to somebody to sit there for a few hours, whatever. And Krislyn Powell: Bye. Jessica Butkus: unfortunately, my boss was not very happy with that, that I had a baby attached to me, mind you. my baby was not crying, not doing anything crazy, I was not breastfeeding on calls, like literally she was just trapped me. But again, it's a totally different world. the guy who owned the company, he, like I said, would open his laptop at six, not close it till eight, and really just expected that of everybody else. So it was a little tough in the sense of trying to hold those boundaries and being like, no, I'm sorry, I told you my hours were... 9 to 12 at 12 o'clock. have a hard stop. I'm sorry. I can't continue on this conversation for 30 more minutes. And I was really proud of myself for holding those boundaries firm. And yeah, and right now where I am, like I said at the beginning, think, is an absolute dream. My boss Gretchen, who's actually the founder of the company, she is nothing short of amazing when it comes to, I'm sorry, I'm sick. kids on the call, my son interrupts real quick because he wants to say hi to Gretchen because he hears me sending voice notes to Gretchen all day long on my phone. He says, I Krislyn Powell: Hahaha Jessica Butkus: want to record a voice note to Gretchen. Krislyn Powell: I'm sweet. Jessica Butkus: So it took a lot, but I'm finally in a place where I truly am so thankful for the work that I do and the people that I work with who really support motherhood and breastfeeding and the whole journey behind it. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, I'm so happy for you too that you landed in a place where you have that support, especially with like the ebbs and flows of what you've experienced. And I feel like that's something that we see, you know, oftentimes with working moms is that there are some experiences, unfortunately, that are a little unsupportive, if you will, and uncomfortable. And we have those experiences, and maybe that pushes us a little bit to be more vocal about what we're looking for and the type of workplaces we actually do want to be in and to be able to pull those opportunities towards us. So yeah, super happy that not only you're able to be vocal about it and share it here, but that you were able to land in a place that is better. Thank you for sharing that. I'm curious too if your background in the certification that you got as a lactation counselor kind of gave you any other perspective as you were going through this as a parent yourself. wow, these are some gaps that I'm seeing for other parents, these are gaps for me as a breastfeeding mom trying to return to work. Did that influence? the recent job that you looked for, like that type of environment, or even the experiences that you had with your past employers. Jessica Butkus: 100%, 100%. And I could tell you, I was looking for a full-time job from probably about February of last year to December of this past year. So I'd say about 11 months Krislyn Powell: you Jessica Butkus: of like truly looking and like, I'm not just saying like all like browsing LinkedIn, like aggressively looking and Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: trying to land something. And I went through probably over 25 interviews. Each of those interview processes had two to three interviews, some of them had a project, and the amount of time I've spent in interviews, I wish I kept better track of it because I would love to know the statistics and the numbers of it because I Krislyn Powell: yeah. Jessica Butkus: truly felt like all I did was interview for basically a full year. No, really, it was crazy. Krislyn Powell: Let's see the charts. Jessica Butkus: And I think one thing... And you know, each process I'm like, I should have said, I shouldn't have said this. I shouldn't have said that. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned I was a mom. Maybe I shouldn't mention that I breastfeed. And I was like going through this internal battle with myself and I'm like, but why would I lie? Why would I not? Why would I not? This is what I'm most proud of. I love being a mom. I'm a mom first. No Krislyn Powell: Mm-hmm. Jessica Butkus: matter what, at end of the day, I am a mother first. That always will come first before work. However, that doesn't mean work isn't important. It's just, takes the backseat sometimes when life gets in the way. Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: And I said to myself, know, I really, should be honest about that because that's what I'm looking for. And that's what I want to get matched with. I don't want to be matched somewhere where I've said in the interviews or have purposely not mentioned that I have a six week old baby or four month old baby, depending on the time of these interviews. So I was really, I was really proud of myself for staying true to that because I do know it's not that way for everybody else. But like I said, I feel very lucky to be. where I am and have the team that I have. And before we were talking about being a lactation counselor as well, all of these stories and things that I've heard of the main reason people are pumping is because they have to go back to work. And pumping is almost seen sometimes in the breastfeeding world as like, no, you're not really breastfeeding, you're just pumping. And that's not the case, obviously. But I think it, for me seeing that, It really just made me feel so grateful that I had the opportunity to be able to nurse on demand because I've always worked from home. I've had that flexibility. I've been able to take a call, go nurse my daughter, and then come back to my office and finish Krislyn Powell: Mm-hmm. Jessica Butkus: whatever I was doing. And I know other moms don't have that. with having my CLC and all of that and hearing all of the stories and different experiences that other mothers have had, just, it made me really grateful to be in the position that I'm in. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, absolutely. just a huge testament to the grit that you've had over the past almost Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: year, basically, going through the job application interview process and just sticking with it. And something that you mentioned just really rang true for me is that you said, should I not be talking about the fact that I'm a mother? Should I not be mentioning this? Should I essentially like? mask who I am so that I can get through these interviews and get a job offer. Gosh, I know that the market is, you know, it's a hiring team's market right now, you know, it's an employer's market. And it's tough out there and that's what we're hearing and seeing and feeling. But I just have to commend you for that because I personally think and we've seen trends, whether it's an employee's market or an employer's market, I don't think either way. it benefits us to mask or hide who we are because the pendulum is going to swing the other way again. And if, you know, we were hiding the facts of, you know, our human experiences and what makes us us, then there's going to be a lot of like displaced people in environments that they don't want to be in. And it's just going to create more chaos and trying to find other jobs again. And then the cycle continues. Right. So I just feel all this to say that like Thank you for being honest about who you are and being intentional in your search. Because if we could say anything right now on this episode, I think it would be to continue to encourage moms to advocate for what they need in the workplace. And dads too, to talk openly about the fact that they are parents and to set boundaries and balance appropriately in their environment so that they get the respect and can deliver the results that they want and be successful in their careers. I know, I'm a big proponent of being honest about who you are because if you're not, you're... It's Jessica Butkus: Yeah, you're just constantly fighting a battle if you're not, if you're hiding parts of yourself to just land a job. Like I am so thankful that I'm in the environment that I'm in because you know, last week I was extremely down and sick with the flu. had to reschedule this like, and my boss was nothing but supportive the entire week of it's okay. Don't worry about it. Like you'll get to it when you get to it. Like just heal because I, if it was my old boss at the time when I was freelancing, I would have worked myself to death staying up till five o'clock in the morning trying to get things done in between trying to breastfeed my daughter and put her down. And I'm sure you know, it's impossible to put a baby down sometimes. Like they just want to be held and I can't type with two hands while I'm holding a baby while trying Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: to feed. So, you know, I was just very grateful for that and things like that, like that, that makes me want to do more. And now this week that I'm back healthy, like I want to spend the extra hour or two. doing the extra work that I missed. like I'm energized to do it versus feeling like, I have to do this because I just have to get it done. Like I'm happy about working. I enjoy it because of the environment. And I think it makes a lot of difference. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And topic for another day here, but just that a thought came to mind as well as just that when working parents advocate for the support that they need, it makes it better for everyone because simply no human can operate 24-7, 365 with no rest, right? So even if they're not with... Children, Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: people still need to be able to rest and have healthy boundaries at work. so having these conversations, whether there are people who are caregiving for elderly parents or have younger children or simply are going through health issues on their own, it doesn't really matter. what is happening is when we're advocating for the rest that we need and the support structures that we need, it makes it better for everyone to work. just all this to say, yes, yes, Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: yes, yes. And I'm curious too, so you mentioned briefly that you were with a values aligned company and you noticed like that. the values that you thought you were promoting within that company didn't actually align with what you needed internally as an employee. And there was that disconnect with essentially, and I think we see this a lot actually with customer facing content and products that are sold, right? Like the marketing versus like internally what's happening for the employees. And that's a lot of the reason why I got into this conversation about like the employee experience is the customer experience. know, how do we dig into that? But I'm curious with your opinions on that and how you feel like it's shaped your experiences in the workplace and you know how that set the stage for you why you feel that you're so aligned with this current company. Jessica Butkus: Yeah, it definitely just showed me this is not what I want. This is not the environment I want to be in. I don't want to pretend like I'm not a mother just because X, Y, and Z need to get done. It was... It's tough to say because it's hard when it's... You know, we're supporting women, we're uplifting women, we're talking about women in business who are creating these brands by moms, for moms, all these things and, you know, we're... talking as if we're these champion of women, but then we're tearing our own team down because a baby cried in the background. Or you heard the breastfeeding noises on our call that wasn't scheduled. Just very things that... It was definitely a tough experience. I'm trying to be as nice Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Butkus: as possible saying it, but it just, some of the people who were running the branch were the kind of moms that had 24-7 childcare and three different nannies for each of their children. And Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: that's not a world I live in. Like I became a mother to be a mom, not to... not be a mom. And there's nothing wrong with having full-time childcare. Of course not. Like we need it as working moms. But there's a sense of, if I have it till five o'clock, that means at five o'clock I'm done for the night. I mean, if something's urgent, whatever. But there's just a level of respect that we also have to have if we're requiring certain things like that. So that definitely shaped my perspective of what I was looking for in a company. And I think that's why I did start freelancing after that and then I got roped back into being full time. But Krislyn Powell: Yes. Jessica Butkus: again, that was with the mom company who was, it was absolutely wonderful. I have no complaints about that. They were nothing but supportive. It was more, I just wanted more time for myself and to go back into the freelancing world. And then I quickly realized with a few of the freelance contracts that I had, I didn't want to do that either. Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Butkus: And then again, as I was interviewing and I didn't want to hide that I was a mom because that is my life. That's who I am. I knew I would end up finding a company that would value that and value my perspective as a working mom. So I'm glad I held out. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, I think something that's really poignant that you mentioned is one of your experiences, the women who are running the company were the type of working mothers who had full-time nanny care, like 24-7, 365, essentially, maybe Jessica Butkus: Yes. Krislyn Powell: multiple nannies slash multiple babysitters slash other, you know, forms of childcare, but it was... constant, right? And essentially like paying someone a full-time income to take care of their kids. And that actually we have another guest on this season that exited Big Tech and she founded her own company and she mentions that in her episode. So she said that she was going to these panels with speakers, like empowering working mothers and, know, attending these things at work, these functions. And there were these women that were just like... these leaders and high achievers and accomplishing all of these things, but then they were saying one thing and doing another and she's like, you can't possibly be mothering and doing all of this and pretending like it's so easy. Like the way that people were framing it was like, yeah, I am a mother full-time and I'm a full-time employee and I'm, you know, I have all of these awards and I'm traveling the world and I'm meeting with all of these amazing clients and you know, this is my polished image and she's like that. that just wasn't realistic to me. And I think that that's something, like that was one of the reasons for her, why she left and started her own company. But I think what resonated for me in that episode too, and what I'm hearing for you is just that, like there's a reality gap for the mothers who choose to be more present in their children's lives from a caregiving perspective. And we need to talk about that gap. like perception versus reality because there needs to be like more support and understanding for the fact that it takes time, energy, and frankly just like a village for those moms who do decide like, yes, I wanna be a part of my kids' lives. again, know, echoing what you said, like not to say that one is right or one is wrong, but Jessica Butkus: percent. Krislyn Powell: I'm with you in that ballpark of like, I had kids because I want to make memories with them and because I want to know my children and that also requires some sacrifice on my part Jessica Butkus: 100 percent. Krislyn Powell: in different ways. So I'm just echoing that but I think it's really poignant that you mentioned that and I'm... yeah, I just... yeah, I just want to say like there's that gap. Thank you for seeing it. Jessica Butkus: Absolutely. There's, and there's women who are all in this high, high level founders and who have the nannies, who have the housekeeper, who have a house manager, who have a chef and like all of these things that are full-time roles in themselves. But yet somebody like probably you and I don't have the means to have all of that. Of course, everybody would love. full-time chef, a full-time housekeeper, all of those things and yeah, right, it would be wonderful. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and lie and say that I don't dream about that. Everybody does. Krislyn Powell: A personal trainer, a chef, a house cleaner, yeah, a man. Yes. Jessica Butkus: But that's not, that's not my reality. And Krislyn Powell: . Jessica Butkus: I'm not, I can't sit here and pretend like my life is so put together and every day is perfect and I work nine to five and close my laptop and go on with my life. Like, then after my laptop closes, I'm still full-time, full-time chef. full-time housekeeper, full-time house manager, full-time executive assistant to my family because if I didn't do it, who would? And Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Butkus: I think that gets left out of the conversation a lot too because although, yes, we're working moms, there's so much that goes into being a mom too that we're still doing. That's Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: not seen, not noticed. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, the invisible labor and the default parent mode of mothers and all of the essential things that it takes to manage a household that we default to as well. And yeah, there's so many layers to the conversation. Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: I'm curious, too, ping-ponging kind of back to the childcare point. What has it been like for you navigating that specifically? I know, you we just mentioned like all of the invisible labor and and it maybe I mean this this could be like a twofold question, but like as a working mother and one that also wants to be part of your kids lives, like what was it like deciding, you know, where to lean on for childcare and support? And did you decide to outsource anything else within your home management as you have your career? And what does that look like? Jessica Butkus: Yeah, that's a great question. for our childcare situation, so for the whole year that I was job searching, I was home with the kids. We didn't have to really have any type of childcare. I have a wonderful mother who helps me with the kids a lot when my husband can, things like that. And she's very active involved. So I have a wonderful support system there. But during the Krislyn Powell: Mm-hmm. Jessica Butkus: day, obviously, I needed something so that I could sit and work. So we ended up outsourcing to a nanny and she's wonderful with the kids. We did have a little rough time with my son when she first started. I think the transition of being so used to having me every day 24-7, not tied to a computer, my phone. And we were doing so much, going to the park, different stores, things like that. The big switch from all of that to pretty much nothing Monday through Friday besides our nanny. was a tough adjustment and it took some weeks. It's, I mean, we still have our days now. But with that said, she's not here full time. I don't have her for 40 hours a week. She comes maybe three to six hours a day, Monday through Friday, sometimes not on Fridays. But that's the sacrifice that I make because I want to have more time during the day with my kids. So to be able to do that, that means once I put them to bed at eight o'clock, From eight to about midnight 1 a.m., I'm on my laptop working, catching up on those last Krislyn Powell: Mmm. Jessica Butkus: few hours that I need for work. And Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: I think this goes back to the point before of the environment that you work in. If it was any other environment, logging on at eight, nine o'clock would feel terrible and I would dread it. But I truly look forward to it now because I like the work I'm doing, I enjoy the people I work with, and it's just such a positive environment. And that was one thing I had mentioned in my interview process too. of like that's kind of the typical schedule of how I work because I like to do my work at night so that I have a little bit more time during the day to be a full-time mom and be fully present in the moment with them. And again, it was something that maybe that was why I didn't get the six jobs before that, but I got the one that Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: matched perfectly for what I was looking for. So. Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: But again, we make sacrifices all day long and some moms might not have energy by eight o'clock to do that and they want the eight hours of care during the day and that's fine. If that's how it works for your family and you, 100 % support that. But for me, I wanted the extra time. And so I make the sacrifice at night. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, that rings true for my experience as well. And I found that I worked better in short spurts than I did in the longer kind of drawn out day. think, you know, having a workplace that understands that that's kind of like the way that working parents navigate best, if that's what they need, like that's just super helpful. I know I remember logging on some late nights and being like, thank goodness for the slack scheduling, because like I can not be pinging people at, you know, Jessica Butkus: Right. Krislyn Powell: 11 PM. while I'm nursing it. It's just like, Jessica Butkus: in Krislyn Powell: I can schedule this message for 9 a.m. tomorrow. But yes, I love that. And through all this too, what has your village looked like? Being someone that's worked in community driven brands, how have you built your own modern village? And also I'm curious about your partner dynamics too. I know you mentioned that your mom is a big support and helps out a lot, but. Yeah, what does your village look like in communication with your partner? Jessica Butkus: Yeah, my husband, works full time out of the house. So he leaves early in the morning, comes home, dinnertime ish. Thankfully right now he has a very flexible job. So God forbid something happened or I needed the extra support. He could very easily stay home and help with the kids while I do a meeting or call, whatever it is that needs to be done. But then I also have my mom who's not even five minutes down the road and I mean, her house is, I always joke and say my parents decided to get rich after my sister and I left the house because now they have Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Jessica Butkus: this big, beautiful house and a room for each of the kids, their own bathroom, their own playroom. Like truly it's like a second home to them and that I am so grateful for because even like a day like today, I'm gonna head over there after once our nanny leaves for the day and go do another hour or two of work. And just so it's a little less that I have to do tonight. Krislyn Powell: Yeah, that's so nice. Jessica Butkus: But having a support system makes all the difference because if I didn't have my husband or my mom, I don't know how I would do it. One, I would have no money because I would be having to pay a nanny or a babysitter all day long to help me get all of these things done. yeah, having a village and setting that tone of... And the planning, I think the planning has a lot to do with it too because, you know, my nanny has her schedule during the week and I know by... three o'clock ish, my mom's typically home. I head over there for an hour or two. And I know like each day I'll, no matter what happens during the day with the nanny, if I have to, you know, interrupt or come down and solve a problem that's going on or make a quick lunch for the kids, I know that I'll get that time back later that day. So it's helpful Krislyn Powell: Mm. Jessica Butkus: for work to know like, okay, if I didn't get to this one to-do list task, I could do it later this afternoon. Krislyn Powell: Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. I feel like you have really found a rhythm between the way that you have trusted caregivers versus family that you can lean on and what ebbs and flows well for you in terms of working hours. And that's super important. I know supportive partners are huge. I feel the same way about my husband. And I think often, wow, there are really solo parents out there doing this by themselves. And that's insane to me. Wow. That is just incredible. But I also wanted to ask too, you work in growth strategy and content roles and this is something that usually demands quick focus and lot of availability for you. So are there strategies that you use to balance? I know you said time blocking is one and you are probably clear in your communication about when you'll be available. But what has surfaced for you that you feel like is really relevant at this stage of your life? Jessica Butkus: blocking out my time and I think to even with my work now like I work so far ahead to prepare for those things because I know like right now I'm working on a big launch for it's the end of July and like it July end of July early August seems so far out but it's it's really not and like I'd rather work on this now so that tomorrow if a hiccup comes up in the middle of the day okay I can get to it that night and now it'll be handled versus it happening a week before the launch and we're scrambling around trying to find everything. have holding one baby trying to keep my son calm in the corner while I'm trying to, you know, send an email or let somebody know an update of what's happening. So really, it really just comes down to blocking out my time and knowing the next time that I'm going to open my laptop and get that done. And also we use Slack a lot. So I'm on my phone and I see the things come in and I don't know if you use Slack's unread feature. game changer for me because I'm like okay I can look at Krislyn Powell: yeah. Jessica Butkus: it is it anything urgent nope okay mark unread I'll answer that tonight when I get back to my laptop and I tell my boss all the time I'm like it's it's the most amazing thing because obviously if it was urgent I can answer right then and there but if not I just swipe it and deal with it later at night or the next time I open my laptop Krislyn Powell: 100%. No, that's a game changer for sure. And I hear you on the working in advance and taking a look at the calendar. And I was in the event and marketing world for a really long time. And we used to joke like, yeah, the Christmas in July, people have no idea. We really have planned everything for the holiday season already by July. That's just how it is. Yeah, so. Jessica Butkus: Right. Right. Krislyn Powell: So great. So it's just been lovely having you on the show today. I really appreciate you sharing your story. And as we're closing, I would love to do just like a recap of, where can we find you? How can we support the work that you're doing and just learn more about you as a person. Jessica Butkus: Yeah, so right now I'm currently director of marketing operations at the Missing Link. So if you know anybody with MS, feel free to send them my way. I'm happy to give them a quick intro into the company and what we do and all of that. And I'm actually also a I have a side business called Rolling Creations. We have a photo box. It's a four by four foot white photo box and we do fun collage pictures. It's mainly for kids, but adults have gotten into and it's So the Instagram is. @photobox_CT if you're in the Connecticut area, it's a one of a kind photo experience, really fun and creative. But yeah, you can keep up with me there or my personal page, which is Jessica Butkus. Krislyn Powell: So awesome. Okay, Jessica Butkus: Thank Krislyn Powell: thank you. And then we always like to close our episodes with a question, kind of looking ahead for future working parents. So what hope do you have for future working parents? Jessica Butkus: I hope that childcare becomes more accessible to people and your choices and what you want is more accessible. I know of different states and not to get too political, but a lot of different states don't allow certain children into different childcare facilities based on their own health choices. So my hope is that in the near future that something changes and that there's more support for working parents, especially working moms. and a more understanding approach, especially moms with younger children and babies, and that more workplaces can take on that understanding approach. Krislyn Powell: Thank you so much for sharing your journey and all that you did today with us. I think there's some really key takeaways that can help working moms and dads alike and it's just been really refreshing to chat with you. So thanks for joining us, Jessica. Jessica Butkus: Yes, thank you for having me. It was so nice to chat.