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WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FIRST-DEGREE MURDER CHARGES AGAINST LUIGI MANGIONE? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Thousands of Luigimngioni fans are thrilled and celebrate openly in
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: the street as a judge dismisses terrorism charges. This as
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: the same fans are outraged at comparisons between Luigimi and
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Gioni and the Charlie Kirk killer. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: with us. First of all, Luigi Mangioni is caught on
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: video gunning down a healthcare boss, right Brian Thompson, minding
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: his own business, going to some sort of a conference
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: in downtown Manhattan, when Mangione, according to the.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Video, comes up behind him and him dead on the sidewalk.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Remember father of two.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Now, the Mangioni fans are thrilled when a judge dismisses
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: two of the most serious charges against Mangione. What judge
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Judge Gregory Caro claiming the evidence was legally insufficient for
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: murdering the first degree?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: What isn't that up.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: To a jury? This leaves him with one count of
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: murder in the second degree. How has this happened? This
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: is a huge legal win for Mangione. Mangione paraded into
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the Manhattan Supreme Court looking stoic, and then got the
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: good news. This is Supporters thronged the outside of the
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: downtown Manhattan Courthouse. This was Mangioni's first appearance since the
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: murder of Charlie Kirk, another high profile case that has
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: been compared to Mangionies and like the Kurrent assassin, mangione wrote,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: deny depos and delay on the bullets.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Wow, what a wack adoodle. These are the facts.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Earlier this morning in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: to be our person of interest.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in Western
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and The New
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: ex execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: what Elie was looking for in the case. But is
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: it him? Does he match this description? According to a
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: McDonald's employee, he does.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: What else do we know? Where?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: to find the killer of the health care boss.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: What led to the detainment of this guy?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: We also understand that in his possession is a New
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Jersey at Fay idate, possibly used to check into that
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Manhattan hostile police press conference.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Listen.
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  Speaker 4: A man was taken into custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: this subject.
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: This case was brought to a successful.
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  Speaker 4: Conclusion based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,
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  Speaker 4: including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners
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  Speaker 4: at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.
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  Speaker 5: On Thursday, one day after.
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  Speaker 4: This crime was committed, the NYPD released a photo of
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: the shooter in this case. This picture was obtained by
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: the NYPD during one of their extensive video canvases. We
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: took that photograph and we asked for the public's health
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: and identifying this subject, and the public responded. Hundreds of
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: tips began to pour into our hotline. Each tip was
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional photographs as
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: they came into our possession. The NYPD provided these photos
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international outlets released
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: the photo via television, print, social media, and online content. Luckily,
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  Speaker 4: a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized.
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  Speaker 5: Our subject and called local law enforcement.
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  Speaker 4: Members of the Altoona Police Department responded to the call,
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  Speaker 4: and based on their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: investigation is still active and ongoing.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: Thank you very much.
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: I had a couple questions about give the document that
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  Speaker 6: he was found in possession with. Can you go a
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  Speaker 6: little bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,
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  Speaker 6: was that's the specifically meaned in that document? Was there
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: anything more about him willing to go after others? And
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  Speaker 6: also in that document, was there any indication that explains
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: us how the level of detail as he went into
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  Speaker 6: killing him, like, is there anything.
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  Speaker 4: That that document is currently in the possession of the
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: auto and a police department as part of their investigation,
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  Speaker 4: but just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think
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  Speaker 4: that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in
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  Speaker 4: that document, but it does seem that he has some.
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  Speaker 5: Ill will towards corporate America.
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  Speaker 7: Can you point to a single linchpin that held practice case.
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  Speaker 5: There's numerous lynchpins in this case.
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  Speaker 4: And the fact that we've recovered an enormous amount of
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: forensic evidence, an enormous amount of video, and once again
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: with your help and the public SELP so I couldn't.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: I really couldn't put it on one thing, but if
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: I had to, it would be the release of that
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: photograph from the media. We had divers in the Ward
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: yesterday that came up negative results the passport. We don't
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: believe that he was planning on doing any traveling at
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: this time. We don't think he at this point investigation,
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: we don't think he was trying to flee the country.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Person at McDonald's were they buying? What were they doing at.
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  Speaker 8: That exact comport?
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  Speaker 5: He was an employee at the McDonald's.
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  Speaker 9: But what was the aspector?
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  Speaker 5: Dudes, he was sitting there reading nada from the New
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: York Post. I was just hoping to get more details
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  Speaker 5: of the capture itself. Did he put up a fight?
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: Did he say it through the cops?
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  Speaker 3: And we've also recorded that he published online anti health
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  Speaker 3: KA industry rantings.
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  Speaker 1: Can you share with us some of the services that
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: he posted on.
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  Speaker 4: We're still working through his social media and we're going
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: to do a complete scrub of that Preliminarily, like I said,
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  Speaker 4: he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
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  Speaker 4: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: this together. We're still going to be working very hard
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  Speaker 4: to bring this to a successful conclusion.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: A ghost gun a silence, sir, Fake IDs and a
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  Speaker 2: handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
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  Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
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  Speaker 1: entertainment in Pennsylvania?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown psychoalyst out of La,
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  Speaker 2: author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock Now,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin meant to scatter
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: toy Monopoly money over the dead body.
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  Speaker 1: That tells me a lot about him.
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  Speaker 2: He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,
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  Speaker 2: thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.
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  Speaker 2: We know he's gotten money and a guy that can
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.
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  Speaker 2: We also know that while he may have meant to
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending
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  Speaker 2: a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: he didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.
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  Speaker 2: He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: behind a burner phone. If they can break into that
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  Speaker 2: burner flyown burner found that is going to be a
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: tremendous source of evidence. But he forgot to strow the.
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  Speaker 7: Money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In
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  Speaker 7: the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional,
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  Speaker 7: meaning he has been thinking about this for a long
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  Speaker 7: long time. When I have a patient like this come
• 9:26
  Speaker 7: into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at
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  Speaker 7: one person and that is all they can talk about.
• 9:33
  Speaker 7: What they would like to do, what the person's look
• 9:35
  Speaker 7: on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With
• 9:38
  Speaker 7: obsessional paranoia the person the person sort of alleviates their
• 9:45
  Speaker 7: rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.
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  Speaker 7: But I also think although he obsessed about this and
• 9:54
  Speaker 7: planted it out this was his first crime, he did
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  Speaker 7: not He did not think about what it would be
• 9:59
  Speaker 7: like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.
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  Speaker 7: He didn't have time to plan them. You didn't have
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  Speaker 7: time to scatter the monopoly money.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD, knows this
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  Speaker 2: area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: his actual cell phone. But the reports we're hearing is
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: it's a burner phone. Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone,
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  Speaker 2: actual phone, burner phone, Nancy tom Smith.
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  Speaker 1: What I'm coming to you about is the phone? What
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  Speaker 1: an idiot? I think Bethany's right.
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  Speaker 2: This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Robert Blake. Remember when he and his henchman.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Got his bodyguards, got together and murdered Bondi Lee Bakley, and.
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  Speaker 1: They had this extensive to do list.
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  Speaker 2: Very often you can catch the purp because of their
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: to do list and they're over planning, right. Uh. But
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the burner phone, they're really hard to break into. You
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had
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  Speaker 2: to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren, it's a burner phone
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  Speaker 9: and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just
• 11:15
  Speaker 9: use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
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  Speaker 9: out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for,
• 11:21
  Speaker 9: there may not be a lot on there, but the
• 11:24
  Speaker 9: ability to break in there might not be that difficult
• 11:26
  Speaker 9: because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and giugi
• 11:30
  Speaker 9: Are and the limited amount of information that'll be on.
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  Speaker 2: There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've
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  Speaker 2: got so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, He's not worried. Look at him.
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  Speaker 2: He has practiced this over and over and over. He
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: has been watching the victim like a hawk from the
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: moment the victim got into town. This guy knows the
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: that the victim was going over ahead of time from
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Check it out.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: and calculated.
• 12:32
  Speaker 7: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the
• 12:35
  Speaker 7: panel's term, Nancy, There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show. Because if he
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: had he would have known that there were surveillance cameras
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: all along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call.
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: That makes me wonder if this is like the DC
• 12:52
  Speaker 7: Sniper where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,
• 12:57
  Speaker 7: or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: that's why he's on that phone.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: not a fifteen minute phone call.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 13:08
  Speaker 10: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am, so
• 13:12
  Speaker 10: doctor Bethany.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: But I agree with what you were saying. But he
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost as if
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: he's checking in because I'm wondering is he speaking or
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: is he listening?
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: out of this jurisdiction.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Who also, You and I have walked this track before.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Together at Jason Ocean, So back around.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Por TV and hl N Day's.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if he was listening
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: to something and not talking.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I prosecuted an arson.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Murder and just before the guy brined his mansion down
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and tried to fake that his wife died in the
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: fire from smokinghilation.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: He called and checked the weather channel.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: weather channel to find out if it was going to
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: rain the day he was setting the house on fire.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So, for all I know.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was Now.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I know he was not on a flight. I know
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: he was on a bus. But every time I'm headed
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to Legardia, I call or I check online to see
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: if my delta flight is delayed. Okay, how do I
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: know if he was just checking something or actually speaking
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: to someone. In Bethany's train of thought, what if he
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: called someone it was a quick callment, Hey I'm on
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the way right now, I'm walking, I just passed Starbucks.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It could be that. It could be anything, NTI I.
• 14:46
  Speaker 11: Think the theory that, you know, the potential theory that
• 14:49
  Speaker 11: he was directed by someone and that's why he was
• 14:51
  Speaker 11: on the phone is fascinating.
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: And then also struck.
• 14:54
  Speaker 11: By that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall
• 15:00
  Speaker 11: aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think you
• 15:02
  Speaker 11: didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in
• 15:05
  Speaker 11: this seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done.
• 15:08
  Speaker 11: But that phone call could be very critical if we
• 15:12
  Speaker 11: can find out if it was an incoming or an
• 15:14
  Speaker 11: outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the
• 15:17
  Speaker 11: ability to bust that phone up.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: cracks it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: You'd think it would be easy.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Because you know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert. When
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I was researching for my last book, Don't Be a Victim,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I found out that about I think it was seventy
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number of people
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: still use the factory code that they had on answer machines,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: or they do one two three four is their code,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: or one one one one, or of course sixty nine
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: sixty nine that's now tried and true, or let's see
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: seven seven.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: It's so predictable.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cellphone
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the burner. You know how long it took them to
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: crack Alex Murdog's final They had to bring in the
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Secret Service to.
• 16:18
  Speaker 12: Do it exactly mean, if you look at that phone call,
• 16:21
  Speaker 12: could have been something as simple as he called him
• 16:23
  Speaker 12: seek to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it.
• 16:26
  Speaker 12: Who you can call it? Six forty five am is
• 16:28
  Speaker 12: a very small group of people, So it could have
• 16:31
  Speaker 12: been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that
• 16:34
  Speaker 12: morning and wants to make sure that's smart.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It's smart smart.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Wait, you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, who are
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: you going to call at six o'clock.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: In the morning? Okay, not very many people.
• 16:49
  Speaker 12: Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or
• 16:51
  Speaker 12: a sister or something like that, you're going to scare
• 16:53
  Speaker 12: the day like that of them. So it's got to
• 16:55
  Speaker 12: be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message
• 16:59
  Speaker 12: for somebody because you, oh, they're not at work yet,
• 17:01
  Speaker 12: you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested
• 17:04
  Speaker 12: in that as I am his other messages. What he
• 17:07
  Speaker 12: wrote on the shellcasing the threat before the murder, the
• 17:11
  Speaker 12: fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,
• 17:14
  Speaker 12: Poe state, why not shoot him at any red light
• 17:17
  Speaker 12: going to work?
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit hold on.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I want to tell everybody.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: At first we were led to believe that the bullets
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: were engraved in some way with.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Deny defend deposed.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: We now know it was written with black sharp which
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: tells me even more. Do you know that you can
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: think police are going to need a handwriting sample when
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: they've got fingerprints in DNA, But you never know what
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: might click with the jury.
• 17:55
  Speaker 12: What about it, Cheryl one hundred percent. But again it
• 17:58
  Speaker 12: tells you he took extra time to leave a message
• 18:02
  Speaker 12: on shellcasings. He took extra time to get the monopoly money.
• 18:06
  Speaker 12: That's a message. Shooting him in New York City the
• 18:09
  Speaker 12: morning of that meeting was a message. He could have
• 18:12
  Speaker 12: shot him anytime in his home, stated a red light,
• 18:15
  Speaker 12: but he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser
• 18:18
  Speaker 12: focus about his intended target and his motive.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Period crime stories with Nancy Grace, The sad sack lovelorn
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: fans of Luigi Mangone alternately thrilled and miserable at the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: same time, thrilled that some of the most serious charges
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: against mange On he had been dropped by some crackpot
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: judge before it could even get to a jury.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: And miserable because Mangione is being compared to the Charlie
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Kirk assassin.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And they don't like that.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Oh well, here are the facts.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: First, i want to go out to our dive expert.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.
• 19:32
  Speaker 13: The New York Police Department dive team is called into
• 19:35
  Speaker 13: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexher Playground.
• 19:38
  Speaker 13: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
• 19:41
  Speaker 13: an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,
• 19:44
  Speaker 13: in a body of water known as the Lake near
• 19:46
  Speaker 13: Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central
• 19:49
  Speaker 13: Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee
• 19:51
  Speaker 13: bike into the park.
• 19:52
  Speaker 14: Police have not yet recovered.
• 19:54
  Speaker 13: The distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear
• 19:56
  Speaker 13: if officers recovered any evidence from the water.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Special guest Ben Dobrian Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services also
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University. He
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: is an expert diver and he is actually a dive instructor. Well.
• 20:17
  Speaker 8: I do a lot of police diving also and just
• 20:19
  Speaker 8: into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on
• 20:22
  Speaker 8: Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
• 20:24
  Speaker 8: makes it a lot easier than having to go into
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: the ocean or you know, a great lake or the
• 20:28
  Speaker 8: Chestpea Bay, So it makes it a lot easier for
• 20:30
  Speaker 8: the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: only four to six feet deep, so that also makes
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.
• 20:37
  Speaker 8: But what they're could be doing is they're could be
• 20:39
  Speaker 8: looking for anything that they can find. And one thing
• 20:41
  Speaker 8: that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything
• 20:45
  Speaker 8: that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as
• 20:48
  Speaker 8: a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,
• 20:54
  Speaker 8: shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more
• 20:56
  Speaker 8: people that are around, the more people use that as
• 20:58
  Speaker 8: a dumping grounds. Two things that I imagine they're looking for
• 21:01
  Speaker 8: just listening to the different news reports and listening to you.
• 21:04
  Speaker 8: They're looking for the firearm obviously, but that telephone also,
• 21:08
  Speaker 8: they're looking for that. You know, those are both very
• 21:10
  Speaker 8: small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: of the things that if you find an item like that,
• 21:16
  Speaker 8: you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the
• 21:19
  Speaker 8: same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective,
• 21:22
  Speaker 8: but the one thing we have to keep in mind
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: is in air, so you all if you do is
• 21:29
  Speaker 8: keep it in the air. But evidence that's recovered underwater
• 21:31
  Speaker 8: you have to recover it with the water. If you
• 21:33
  Speaker 8: take it out of the water, things start to break
• 21:36
  Speaker 8: down relatively quickly. When I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints
• 21:39
  Speaker 8: if you take something out of the water, and fingerprints
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: can last for about a week underwater, so the clock
• 21:45
  Speaker 8: is ticking. But if you remove whether it's a firearm
• 21:49
  Speaker 8: or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're going
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: to want to take it out of the water and
• 21:54
  Speaker 8: just bring some of the local water with it and
• 21:56
  Speaker 8: then bring that to your forensics office, and then they're
• 21:59
  Speaker 8: going to drain the water and then do all the
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: magic that they do to get the fingerprints off of it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, Ben Dobrin is joining me, not only dean Professional
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Services at Virginia Westley, and he is a dive instructor
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: and a police diver. Now, Ben, you just taught me
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: something I didn't know. Number One, when items are taken
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: out of the water, you have to preserve them in
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: preferably the ambiance water the water in which they were in,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: For instance, fingerprints. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: of a.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Hit series Body Bags.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: With Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted to talk to you
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: about the gun, but I want to follow up on
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: what Dobrain is telling us. Yes, prints are preserved underwater
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: because Prince fingerprints are based on the oil in the
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: body oil water.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Get it. You can explain better than me. Go ahead.
• 23:00
  Speaker 15: Yeah, Our fingerprints come about as a result of the
• 23:03
  Speaker 15: discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the
• 23:05
  Speaker 15: pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we
• 23:10
  Speaker 15: don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We
• 23:13
  Speaker 15: have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this
• 23:17
  Speaker 15: particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that
• 23:22
  Speaker 15: has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you have
• 23:25
  Speaker 15: a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing
• 23:28
  Speaker 15: down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
• 23:32
  Speaker 15: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
• 23:36
  Speaker 15: magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
• 23:41
  Speaker 15: this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.
• 23:45
  Speaker 15: So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
• 23:48
  Speaker 15: You have this protected space. If you can keep this
• 23:51
  Speaker 15: in the water that it comes from and take that
• 23:55
  Speaker 15: into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty
• 23:59
  Speaker 15: quickly raise any kind of latent prints that might be there.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying here.
• 24:11
  Speaker 15: That one more thing about it, please, Jun Yeah, you
• 24:17
  Speaker 15: think about you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated,
• 24:21
  Speaker 15: and all of us have been to Manhattan, how densely
• 24:25
  Speaker 15: populated this area. This guy and pay very close than
• 24:29
  Speaker 15: you what I'm about to say. This guy, if he
• 24:31
  Speaker 15: did this. He ain't the first person to think about
• 24:33
  Speaker 15: dumping a weapon into that lake, all right, So they
• 24:37
  Speaker 15: have a herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing
• 24:43
  Speaker 15: in this filthy water where they're going to be using
• 24:47
  Speaker 15: their hands, crawling along. How many other weapons are in there?
• 24:51
  Speaker 15: Just because you find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's
• 24:55
  Speaker 15: the firearm that was used.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Ben, I want to follow up with you on this.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: That's a great thing to throw it in Chason Ocean's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: when we come back. But this guy did so much planning, Ben,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: twenty acres, I.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Guarantee you he didn't know that it was just four
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: to six feet deep.
• 25:22
  Speaker 8: And I just found that Google. And as you go
• 25:24
  Speaker 8: a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
• 25:26
  Speaker 8: reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So
• 25:29
  Speaker 8: that is significantly deeper. I mean, it's obviously you can
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: dive that. It just takes a little bit longer to
• 25:33
  Speaker 8: get down and get up. But four to six feet
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: is super easy. If they find something, they can just
• 25:36
  Speaker 8: pop their head out of the water.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace outside the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Mangioni's fan group, mostly young females, all wore t shirts
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: in his honor, one that said Luigi's Pizza Brooklyn. Really.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Some were masks in another quote tribute, like the one
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: he is said to have worn while murdering CEO Health
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Boss Brian Thompson, trying to hide his identity. Sometimes she
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: was there because healthcare is a human right. Oh really? Okay,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Well that's not what murder is about, she says. She
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: sees Mangioni as a quote symbol.
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: These are the facts.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Nabbed in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona area at a
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: local McDonald's. He has now been arrested on charges relating
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: to a gun, sources telling us it was a so
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: called ghost gun, a gun that has no serial number
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: that is often put together with a kit the parts
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a ghost gun
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: and a silencer, along with a hand written manifesto attacking
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the healthcare industry.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Tom Again, thank you for being with us. We've learned
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: are now understanding that is not a homemade silencer.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: That this is a weapon that is often used by.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: The magazine is in the grip.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And when many people thought that it was jamming and
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: he was clearing it after each shot, which I thought
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: he did really calmly and methodically, we now know it
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: may be a bolt action that has to be manually
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: cycled after each shot.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: That changes things.
• 28:07
  Speaker 9: Tom Smith, Yes, it does, because now he knows he's
• 28:10
  Speaker 9: proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it
• 28:13
  Speaker 9: he's going to have to chamber around. And if I
• 28:16
  Speaker 9: could show you real quick, this is a glock, not
• 28:18
  Speaker 9: the same weapon that was used, but similar functioning. Every
• 28:22
  Speaker 9: time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click it
• 28:26
  Speaker 9: like this in order to chamber around to fire the
• 28:28
  Speaker 9: next round. And the thing about him is he knows
• 28:31
  Speaker 9: the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not a
• 28:34
  Speaker 9: surprise to him. So he fires around, has to clear it,
• 28:37
  Speaker 9: fire another round, clear it to chamber around each time,
• 28:41
  Speaker 9: and he knows the weapon, and he knows that he
• 28:44
  Speaker 9: is coming and has to do that, and that's why
• 28:46
  Speaker 9: he stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever
• 28:50
  Speaker 9: dealt with in New York City, what's a weapons jams,
• 28:53
  Speaker 9: they throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how
• 28:56
  Speaker 9: this weapon is being used.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: because in the movies you always see the person jam
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: gun range.
• 29:21
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,
• 29:24
  Speaker 9: because like I said, there's a big difference when you're
• 29:27
  Speaker 9: viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
• 29:31
  Speaker 9: He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I want you to explain one more time
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: for novices out there about the bolt action. We now
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: more time, please, Tom.
• 29:53
  Speaker 9: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
• 29:58
  Speaker 9: port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at
• 30:00
  Speaker 9: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
• 30:03
  Speaker 9: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
• 30:07
  Speaker 9: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
• 30:09
  Speaker 9: and do the same thing over and over again. So,
• 30:12
  Speaker 9: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
• 30:15
  Speaker 9: he's used and what he used to do to fire.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: You know another issue, Tom Smith, And I'm going to
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: bring everybody back in in just a second, but Tom,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: by veterinarians to put down animals is it has.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: A very quiet shot, very quiet shot.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And the gun we're talking about has a long as
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
• 31:04
  Speaker 9: have more of an angle of your target in front
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
• 31:10
  Speaker 9: of how this weapon is used. And what it needs
• 31:12
  Speaker 9: to do to fight is.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: This gun is a specialized gun.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: You know, he practiced with the murder weapon. He didn't
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: just trot over to Connecticut and buy a gun and
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: then use it the next day. That did not happen.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Think of the mindset here.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: This is a gun. He brought with him on a bus.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Didn't get on a plane because he couldn't get through
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Tsa with a gun, for Pete's sake. And the airlines
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: know who you are, they have your picture, they have
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: you every three feet in the airport.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: was to use an aligen gun.
• 31:56
  Speaker 9: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
• 31:59
  Speaker 9: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
• 32:02
  Speaker 9: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
• 32:05
  Speaker 9: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
• 32:08
  Speaker 9: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
• 32:12
  Speaker 9: on it. So it could be very benign in identifying it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 9: And that's why he paid.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall is that this guy
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: did not just go into a gun shop and buy
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: staking out the scene the moment he got there November
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: He went to this location where the forum was going
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: to be held. He didn't buy a new gun.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: practicing for hours on end.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: This guy is upper middle class.
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: This guy has money, He has disposable money, and he
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: had access to a weapon in a professional environment. This
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: is not somebody who goes to a gun shop with
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: a fake ID and tries to skip the background check
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: and gets a gun. This is a man who knows
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: this weapon. This is also a man who has researched
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: where this CEO is going to be.
• 33:17
  Speaker 14: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
• 33:20
  Speaker 14: a silencer being used or a modern version of a
• 33:23
  Speaker 14: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
• 33:27
  Speaker 14: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
• 33:30
  Speaker 14: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
• 33:33
  Speaker 14: Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the
• 33:36
  Speaker 14: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
• 33:40
  Speaker 14: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
• 33:42
  Speaker 14: ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
• 33:45
  Speaker 14: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
• 33:48
  Speaker 14: doesn't cause a large noise.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: charges apparently had a gust gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: It's not just this moment.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: man hours like this.
• 34:15
  Speaker 16: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
• 34:18
  Speaker 16: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
• 34:21
  Speaker 16: south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
• 34:25
  Speaker 16: statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
• 34:29
  Speaker 16: arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
• 34:33
  Speaker 16: through video from the bus station in town and the
• 34:36
  Speaker 16: others along the route to New York City. Officers are
• 34:39
  Speaker 16: working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
• 34:42
  Speaker 16: November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Let me just say that.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: just like he used a fake ID when he checked
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Lauren Colin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: with the receptionist.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: That's not what happened.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: We now know that to check into that hostile and
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: some ID, look at them. The next time they ask
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: you that, they look back up at your face, right, So, yeah,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: there was a little flirtation.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: You can see him smiling right there.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia on that
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: mouth right there.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: But that's another can of worms.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Lauren, So I don't know that the clerk was flirting
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: with him. She very well may have said, pulled down
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: your mask. I got to make an I mean, this
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: is not the rints okay, right.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Right, And you're correct, Nancy.
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
• 36:11
  Speaker 10: not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
• 36:16
  Speaker 10: multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
• 36:19
  Speaker 10: cameras outside of the hostel as well, So.
• 36:22
  Speaker 17: My understanding is they most likely have multiple angles of
• 36:27
  Speaker 17: this guy, of this shooter. I also visited the businesses
• 36:31
  Speaker 17: surrounding the hostel. I went inside to a local bodega.
• 36:34
  Speaker 17: I went inside to a dunkin Donuts and they informed
• 36:37
  Speaker 17: me that they not do any sort of talking about
• 36:40
  Speaker 17: what they know to anyone but the NYPD, but also
• 36:44
  Speaker 17: that they turned over footage as well. So I believe
• 36:47
  Speaker 17: that NYPD is.
• 36:49
  Speaker 10: Going through all of the footage they have right now,
• 36:52
  Speaker 10: which look, it's gonna take some time. This is not
• 36:54
  Speaker 10: going to happen overnight, but I think there's going to
• 36:57
  Speaker 10: be a lot more and stills being released of this
• 37:00
  Speaker 10: guy and what he did during his time in New
• 37:03
  Speaker 10: York before the shooting.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Straight out to you, Cheryl, McCollum, Let's look at this guy.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
• 37:11
  Speaker 12: Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
• 37:14
  Speaker 12: not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
• 37:17
  Speaker 12: the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
• 37:19
  Speaker 12: I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: And that's why I.
• 37:24
  Speaker 12: Think again, they are focused on Atlanta. They know where
• 37:27
  Speaker 12: the bus originated, they know what he sounds like. If
• 37:30
  Speaker 12: he's from here, they're gonna know it. The other thing
• 37:33
  Speaker 12: about that weapon, remember we have three words, which means
• 37:38
  Speaker 12: three possible shellcases, So that gun either jams and we
• 37:43
  Speaker 12: have an unspent or we have three scent which means
• 37:46
  Speaker 12: he missed one.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: detainment in Pennsylvania?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renow it, psycho analyst
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Way and doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Who is he? Nancy?
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class, he's educated.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: He knew to do this hit.
• 38:19
  Speaker 7: At the healthcare conference because he's sending a message. If
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: he did it at a traffic stop or at the
• 38:24
  Speaker 7: victim's home, it would not send the message. The scribbling
• 38:28
  Speaker 7: on the ammunition he caught that from researching internal documents
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: at insurance companies and citing words that employees or claims
• 38:41
  Speaker 7: processors use to deny claims. I am going to guess
• 38:46
  Speaker 7: that he had a family member who has denied care,
• 38:49
  Speaker 7: and because of that denied care, the family member died
• 38:53
  Speaker 7: and he cannot get over it. So this is although
• 38:56
  Speaker 7: he looks like a street thug on you know, at
• 38:59
  Speaker 7: first glance.
• 39:00
  Speaker 12: He is not.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: like his fingerprints and DNA.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yep.
• 39:22
  Speaker 15: You're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy. And
• 39:25
  Speaker 15: here's one other thing. I did a little digging one
• 39:28
  Speaker 15: of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's the
• 39:31
  Speaker 15: veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be what's referred to
• 39:35
  Speaker 15: as a Station six brand weapon. My research revealed that
• 39:40
  Speaker 15: there are essentially I think either four or five locations
• 39:45
  Speaker 15: in the metro area of Atlanta where these can be
• 39:48
  Speaker 15: specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that
• 39:53
  Speaker 15: that's what this is and that he transported it, I
• 39:56
  Speaker 15: think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on
• 39:58
  Speaker 15: a bus with this thing. He may have picked it
• 40:00
  Speaker 15: up down there at some point in time, and it's
• 40:04
  Speaker 15: not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that
• 40:07
  Speaker 15: he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe
• 40:09
  Speaker 15: he was trying to you know, he's not going to
• 40:12
  Speaker 15: draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor
• 40:16
  Speaker 15: separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient
• 40:21
  Speaker 15: because you lose your site picture every time you have
• 40:25
  Speaker 15: to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,
• 40:27
  Speaker 15: which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think
• 40:31
  Speaker 15: that many of the answers that we're looking for are
• 40:34
  Speaker 15: probably going to rest as well. And this is something
• 40:36
  Speaker 15: that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with
• 40:39
  Speaker 15: United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually
• 40:43
  Speaker 15: hired back in August of twenty twenty three, I want
• 40:46
  Speaker 15: to know what she knows. I want to know what
• 40:49
  Speaker 15: her assets know within that business. Are there letters that
• 40:52
  Speaker 15: have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed
• 40:57
  Speaker 15: relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that
• 41:02
  Speaker 15: may have been blown off or maybe they didn't receive
• 41:04
  Speaker 15: what they wanted, but trust me, the security apparatus within
• 41:08
  Speaker 15: that company is going to be working on them.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: And of course, along with tot Mom Casey Anthony called
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own documentary
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: called Who Is Luigi Mangoni?
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Do I care who he is?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: What I care about is did he gun down an
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: unarmed man in broad daylight?
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: That's what I care about.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Others of Luigimi and Gioni's female fan base were a
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: dressed in the same green as the Luigi character in
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Super Mario Brothers. Needs alert. This is not a video game.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Brian Thompson is really dead. He really bled out on
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the sidewalk, So you know where you can stick your
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Luigi video game. These sad sack love lorn females who
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: obviously aren't working because they're hanging out outside the courthouse
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: in the middle of the day. Climb quiet. We're here
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: because we both support Luigi for what he did. Taking
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: a bite out of corruption of the healthcare industry. Luigi
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Mangioni comes from a multi millionaire family. He was born
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: with not one, but two silver spoons in his mouth.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: He went to Ivy League schools, prep high schools. He
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: had every advantage you can imagine, and was vacationing in
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: a high rise in Hawaii for months on end before
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: he hatched the plan to murder the CEO boss. Here's
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: one woman wearing a free Luigi T shirt. You know
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: she needs to go get a job and get out
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: from in front of the courthouse that said, these are
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: the facts surrounding Brian Thompson's cold blood and murder.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfalse.
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: Good night for him.