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The pitfalls of not planning · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into Legal Exchange with Todd Ltsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Letsky, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd,
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I am never better on you?
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  Speaker 2: I'm great? Thank you? Whatdye huffers? This week?
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  Speaker 3: Got a couple of cases. One that is really I
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  Speaker 3: mean it's it's really just a soap opera. Of of events.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we're going to talk about a client who
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  Speaker 3: gets married and then has a child, and then there's
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  Speaker 3: we learn later that there's a child that is born
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  Speaker 3: out of wedlock, and how does that play in the case.
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  Speaker 3: Then this person remarries without ever getting divorced, and then
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  Speaker 3: there's some question after he dies whether or not it's
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  Speaker 3: like late night, Oh, it's crazy. Then there's kids that
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  Speaker 3: are born after he dies that they think are from
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  Speaker 3: artificial insemination, and how does that work? And who is
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  Speaker 3: going to be the ultimate I mean, this is, this
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  Speaker 3: is and of course there was no planning done. So
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  Speaker 3: now we're trying to figure out who is the beneficiary
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  Speaker 3: of these assets.
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  Speaker 2: Where is that plunk go board gonna go folks.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously we're going to learn a lot of lessons, not
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  Speaker 3: just it's really all about not planning and how it
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  Speaker 3: could have been very different if planning was done, even
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  Speaker 3: with these events well tuned for that. And then we're
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  Speaker 3: going to go to Illinois. I'm sorry, Iowa. We have
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  Speaker 3: an Iowa appellate court case. And this one's a little interesting,
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  Speaker 3: really dealing with life estates and medicaid a state recovery.
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  Speaker 3: But in this case, it was about a life estate
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  Speaker 3: that was granted in a will to the survivor, not
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  Speaker 3: a life estate that was set up prior to death.
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  Speaker 3: And that's a big distinction. So we're going to talk
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  Speaker 3: about how a state recovery works, how trust would work differently,
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  Speaker 3: and how life estates work. So lots to learn about
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  Speaker 3: in this particular Iowa case. But before you do any
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  Speaker 3: of that, folks, it is the month of December. It's
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  Speaker 3: a brand new month, and in this month we have
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  Speaker 3: a new guide. It's the guide dealing with balancing asset
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  Speaker 3: protection and avoiding estate taxes. So it does two things.
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  Speaker 3: Talks first about the basic estate tax planning with revocable trusts.
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  Speaker 3: Gives you all the formulas, all the tables to calculate
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  Speaker 3: your tax, put in your own numbers, put in your
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  Speaker 3: own assets, and figure out how your tax works and
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  Speaker 3: how the trust works. Then it talks about not only
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  Speaker 3: federal but also state calculations so you can learn about
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  Speaker 3: how much you owe for mass. And also it deals
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  Speaker 3: with how do we do it if we use irrevocable
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  Speaker 3: trusts and save the estate taxes and protect from the
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  Speaker 3: nursing home At the same time, folks, lots of stuff
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  Speaker 3: in this guide Call and Get It eight six six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 3: Show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
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  Speaker 3: Are you ready for Little General Hospital?
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  Speaker 2: I am? That sounds juicy.
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  Speaker 3: So Patrick and Marie Mary in nineteen ninety five they
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  Speaker 3: have a child, Marcel. Patrick had another child turns out
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  Speaker 3: from a prior marriage, Tierra, So we've got Marcel and Tierra.
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  Speaker 3: In nineteen nine, ninety nine, Patrick decides to marry Maureen
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  Speaker 3: in Cameroon, and of course disputes exist as if as
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  Speaker 3: if whether or not the Patrick knew they knew Patrick
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  Speaker 3: was married? Are whether he was already married? Okay, well
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  Speaker 3: this is interesting. In two thousand and seven, Patrick dies
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  Speaker 3: in a plane crash. Fourteen months later, Maureen, who he
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  Speaker 3: married in Cameroon, gives birth to twins, allegedly Patrick's kids
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  Speaker 3: through artificial insemination. Hmm. Interesting. Cameroon then had filed They
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  Speaker 3: filed a lawsuit in Cameroon to determine airship and to
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  Speaker 3: nullify Maureen's marriage to Patrick.
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  Speaker 2: And you going to need a chart?
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  Speaker 4: Oh?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. In twenty ten, Maureen and Conrad, Pat's brother, files
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  Speaker 3: wrongful death claim against the airline because he died in
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  Speaker 3: a plane crash. So in twenty sixteen, there's a settlement reached.
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  Speaker 3: Who gets the money, right, don't know? So now we're
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  Speaker 3: going to find.
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  Speaker 2: Out one of his gaggle of chill and I would assume.
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  Speaker 3: Well, let's try to figure this out. So we've got
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  Speaker 3: twins from artificial insemination, we've got Tierra born out of wedlock,
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  Speaker 3: and we've got Marcel the only real child born from
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  Speaker 3: a marriage, right, okay, and a second marriage that maybe
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  Speaker 3: isn't valid because Patrick was already married. Right.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: Twenty nineteen, Conrad told the Illinois.
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  Speaker 2: Court Comrade's brother, Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: That the Cameroon court found that Marcel and Tierra were
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  Speaker 3: to be the heirs. Remember they filed that lawsuit to
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  Speaker 3: find out who the airs were and that Maureen was
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  Speaker 3: not Patrick's spouse, and then her twins are out, okay,
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  Speaker 3: which seems to make sense.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: The Illinois court ordered the money to Conrad as guardian
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  Speaker 3: for Marcel and Tierra. Okay, I'm liking this well. Twenty
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  Speaker 3: twenty two, Edmund files a register's files to register the
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  Speaker 3: twenty ten foreign judgment from Cameroon that nullified Maureen's marriage,
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  Speaker 3: but granted her up what they call paternity spousal rights
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  Speaker 3: and declared the twins co beneficiaries of Patrick's estate. Well.
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  Speaker 3: After some back and forth with the court, the Illinois
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  Speaker 3: Court of Appeals finally dismissed the foreign judgment from Cameroon,
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  Speaker 3: stating that Maureen knew Patrick was married and her twins
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  Speaker 3: are out, So I think when this all shakes.
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  Speaker 2: Out, he couldn't have been involved in that decision. They
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  Speaker 2: came along fourteen months after he died.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, but with artificial insemination fourteen months, nine months.
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  Speaker 3: I get where you're going with I know, but at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day, it seems like Tierra and
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  Speaker 3: Marcel are the only only heirs. Yeah, and this Cameroon
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  Speaker 3: marriage didn't go anywhere. Wow, which is probably the right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be a book.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, at the end of the day, what
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  Speaker 3: can we learn from this, right, Folks, if you're married,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not sure why they didn't do planning after the
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  Speaker 3: first marriage, especially with that mess. Well the first marriage,
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  Speaker 3: Patrick and Marie to have a kid, Marcel, do your
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  Speaker 3: estate plan, yeah, because if they had done their estate
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  Speaker 3: plan right, likely the trust would have said I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to take care of my spouse, Maria. That's how you
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  Speaker 3: do it, right, if living otherwise, I'm going to leave
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  Speaker 3: things to our daughter Marcel, and then you add a
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  Speaker 3: no contest clause to that trust. Everyone else is out
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  Speaker 3: this way, even if he had these other twins or
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  Speaker 3: the kid from the prior marriage, they would be out.
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  Speaker 2: Because you don't have to leave money for your children.
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  Speaker 2: You can specifically exclude them, right, disinherit them, and leave
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  Speaker 2: them for for anybody you want.
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  Speaker 3: So if you go yeah, So if you're back up
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  Speaker 3: and start at the very beginning, Patrick and Marie get married,
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  Speaker 3: they have a kid doing an estate plan, right, I
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  Speaker 3: just carved out exactly how that would work. It'd be perfect.
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  Speaker 3: Why in our trust we actually have language that says
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  Speaker 3: children born out of wedlock are deemed children of the
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  Speaker 3: mother only unless they marry. So this tiera person who
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  Speaker 3: he had out of wedlock would not be a kid. Right.
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  Speaker 3: Oh but wait a minute, it said child from a
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  Speaker 3: prior marriage. Okay, so if they were married, then that
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  Speaker 3: kid would be in. But it's important to understand that
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  Speaker 3: we do put that language in to prevent things like
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  Speaker 3: children that you know, because because a man could have
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  Speaker 3: a child and not know it.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So the first marriage, in the fact that they
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  Speaker 2: had a kid, should have predicated having an a statement.
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  Speaker 2: If not, then having a second marriage exactly should have
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  Speaker 2: absolutely been the call, the actual action.
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  Speaker 3: They should have done it when they had Tiera and
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  Speaker 3: then Marcel's actually the second marriage, so so you're right
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  Speaker 3: they should either way, you could provide for this. And
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  Speaker 3: that's my point. Now, if you died without a will,
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  Speaker 3: if this person ended up dying and had no planning,
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  Speaker 3: which it doesn't tell me. It sounds like they had
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  Speaker 3: no planning, well then you would go. And let's assume
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  Speaker 3: that the spouse is already dead Mariam hm. Well, then
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  Speaker 3: it would go to the next closest next of kin
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  Speaker 3: through the intestate succession statute. Right, and that means it
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  Speaker 3: would go to all kids out of wedlock or not.
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  Speaker 3: If you're a biological child, you would be in the
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  Speaker 3: intestate succession statute that would encompass these.
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  Speaker 2: Twins if you don't plan.
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  Speaker 3: So if these twins are actually his kids, you'd be
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  Speaker 3: in right, folks. This is why, right with a second marriage,
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  Speaker 3: it's very important or significant other plan take care of
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  Speaker 3: your spouse, take care of your kids, take care of
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  Speaker 3: your kids from your prior marriage while you also take
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  Speaker 3: care of your spouse. You can do it all if
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  Speaker 3: you do your trust planning. We've had plenty of cases
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: like this, folks. Call understand how to get your planning
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  Speaker 3: the nursing home at the same time. It's a great
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  Speaker 3: and get it eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Power as
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  Speaker 2: a financial advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got
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  Speaker 2: much more to come when we return to the Legal
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  Speaker 1: Today you're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lusky,
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  Speaker 1: an expert in elder life planning and taxation. Need help
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  Speaker 1: with your estate plan? Call Todd right now and make
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  Speaker 1: an appointment. Eight sixty six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 1: ninety nine. That's eight sixty six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 1: six ninety nine.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the I'm Strong Advisory Group, and
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by Todd Letski, a partner with the law
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  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you follow that story, Todd, but
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: where are we headed now?
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  Speaker 3: It's thankfully a lot easier, less painful time. Yeah, we
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  Speaker 3: don't need the diagram. We're going to go to Iowa.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: There's an appellate court case there. In this case, we've
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  Speaker 3: got Dennis who died or Denise who died. February twenty twenty,
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  Speaker 3: Denise's daughter submitted the will to probate. The will devised
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: a specific life estate in real property to Joe Okay,
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  Speaker 3: Denise had been in a nursing home, however, prior to
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: her death, and she received medical assistance amounting to about
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars from the state.
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  Speaker 3: So Donna files a petition. Now Donna is the daughter.
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  Speaker 3: I believe Donna files a petition to sell the real
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  Speaker 3: estate and pay the money right for the estate recovery
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  Speaker 3: claim because the estate's insolvent otherwise. The court ordered that
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  Speaker 3: the real estate be sold, but also said that Donna's
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: residuary bequest be used up first to pay What does
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: that mean In England the estate the residuary estate would
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: be everything left over, not other than the house. So okay,
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  Speaker 3: that was the order. Well in January twenty twenty four,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: while four years later, Donna files an estate final accounting
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: indicating that this state had been paid seventy eight thousand dollars,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: leaving about sixty thousand dollars due. The state filed a
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: release and satisfaction of its own claim with the probate court.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so somebody screwed up.
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  Speaker 3: Well. The probate court then ordered Donna to amend the
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  Speaker 3: accounting because the balance due to the state was not
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: clear before the amendment to the accounting could be done.
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  Speaker 3: The state filed a motion to modify their claim, stating
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: it was still owed money sixty thousand dollars. Yeah, okay,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: And the probate court denied the state's motion. Really yeah,
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  Speaker 3: And the appellate court affirmed that, saying wow at the
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: propriate court, yeah, you follow the rules right. Probate court
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: said that the state already waived their claim and they
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: failed to make more than a perfunctory agreement or argument
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: rather as to why they should be allowed to file
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: an amended complaint and then claim. So, state, you messed
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: up here. Yeah, and you're going to be penalized for
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: that misstep, which is fine. I mean you're supposed to
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  Speaker 3: follow these rules, that's what you do. And so at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day, this is how it ended up.
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  Speaker 3: But I think there's a lot more to learn about here.
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  Speaker 3: First of all, why was there a state recovery at all?
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  Speaker 3: Why didn't you do planning in advance to prevent the
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  Speaker 3: estate recovery? What's going on with this life estate? How
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: did that even work? And was it an actual life
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  Speaker 3: estate or was it created differently than how we create
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  Speaker 3: life estate. So I'll explain all that. You know, a
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  Speaker 3: state recovery, how does that even work? So I'm going
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: to explain it all, and I'll explain it mainly from
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: a Massachusetts point of view, because this is an Iowa
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: propellatort case. Yeah, please please note that, Yeah, exactly, Susan.
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  Speaker 3: They are different by state, so be mindful of that.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: But folks, before we get to that answer, Balancing estate
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: and avoiding estate taxes is the guide for the month.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: It talks about portability. Remember, how does portability work? What
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: are the pros and cons of electing portability? Keeping that
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: unused exemption for estate taxes when the first spouse dies
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: for the surviving spouse. That's what portability is talks about.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Gives you all the tables in a fact pattern on
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: how to calculate your estate tax both federally and Massachusetts,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: so you can get the guide, put your own numbers in,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: figure out what your tax liability is, and pick whether
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: you want the revocable trust option which is listed here,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: or the irrevocable trust option. Let's say your state's worth
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: four million or less, maybe five million or less. You
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: might say, well, how does the irrevocable trust save my
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: assets from the nursing home, but also protect and eliminate
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: my Massachusetts estate tax. So all that is in the guide, folks.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: It's a great way to get started for your estate
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: plan eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: nine or legal exchange show dot com. You can download
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: it right there again eight six six eight four eight
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal exchange show dot com.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: What can we learn?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, I think a lot.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go through this. We'll go through it a
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: little slowly. Right One, A state recovery. What is it.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: It's the ability for the state to get paid back
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: for Medicaid benefits that they pay on behalf of an individual.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So when someone goes into a nursing home and Medicaid's paying.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: In this case, one hundred and thirty eight thousand bucks, they.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Want to recoup some of that money that they spent
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: on their care.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: They'd like to get it back. Now, remember this is
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: where it varies from state to state. I'm going to
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: tell you in Massachusetts, not understanding the Iowa rule. In
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Massachusetts anyway, like many other states, they only allow recovery
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: against the probate assets in the estate. A probate asset
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: is an asset you die owning in your own name
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: with no designated beneficiary and not join. Okay, well, here
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: the individual probably got on medicaid because they own the home,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: which is still here.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: But the home is your home and so it's generally
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: non countable if it's your primary residence, but leanable, so
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the state's going to throw a lean on it and
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: get recovery. And that's how it works here in mass
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: if you're single. If you're single. And then the excess money,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: because there was some money apparently whatever this residuary money
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: was that Donna lost.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And she inherited that right from her mom.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Right, this was said in the will. Whatever the residuary
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: would go to Donna, she had to give that up first.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: So this excess money was likely a medicaid annuity, right.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And if there's excess money over two thousand dollars, they
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: would have probably bought an annuity. I'm just guessing, and
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: that annuity is still in existence, and the state can
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: put a lean on the annuity because remember with an annuity,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: you have to name the state as the beneficiary after
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: the first after the death of the annuitant.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So then the state starts to get paid back and
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: if there's anything left, then the rest goes to the family, and.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Likely that they would break the contract and just make
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: a full payment, probably because now when they died, there'd
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: be one hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars due. So
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: now the state, and this is probably what happened here.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: The state's saying, all right, well, I want to be
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: able to collect from the house, and I want to
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: be able to have a lean on this annuity. Yep.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: And so in my eyes that would be how a
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: state recovery would work in Massachusetts. I'm guessing there probably
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: was enough to be fully paid here. Okay, So that's
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: a little bit about estate recovery and how it works
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: in Massachusetts. So in this case, upon the death of
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: both the annuitant and the home, I said that the
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: whole assets would be would be subject to recovery, except
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: for the misstep by the state in Iowa who decided
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I've been paid. All right, how does this life estate work?
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: There was some life estate, granted, Why isn't I thought
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: that always protected assets from a nursing home.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Right that it didn't. It doesn't go away until the
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: person who has the life estate.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Dies, right, So in this case. What what happened was
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: the life estate was granted by the will to Joe,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: which means that the individual died owning the entire house.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: There was no life estate on the date of death.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: The life estate was granted after death in the will
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: to another person saying you have the right to live there.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: That's very different, folks, than how you set up life estates. Right,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: if you set up a life estate before you die,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: while you're alive, you give the house to Joe in
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: this case, and reserve the right to live there yourself.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: So that would be Denise Dennis in this case would
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: reserve the right to live there. Okay, that's a life
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Five years later, if you get sick and go in
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: a nursing home, that house is completely protected from the
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: nursing home. There might be a lean during life, but
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: when you die, that life estate goes away and the
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: lean goes away and the house is fully protected. So, folks,
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: that's how a life estate normally works, and it would
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: have worked here, but it wasn't done that way, so
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: that's why it was still at risk. Now, we don't
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: do life estates all that often, but folks, that's how
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: they work. So just if you're going to do them,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: make sure you do them right if you're trying to
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: protect that house from the nursing home. Otherwise, just use
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a trust folks call and get the guide about the trusts.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Revocable and irrevocable are in here helping you understand how
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: to reduce the state taxes and protect assets from the
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: nursing home eight six six eight four eight five six
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Letski, a partner with the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. Todd will be
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: answering your listener questions when we return to the Legal
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Leutski.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: If you're retired or getting close, now's the perfect time
• 23:57
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• 23:59
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• 24:30
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• 24:33
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• 24:43
  Speaker 1: show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: use expressed or so legos of Cushing and Dolin. Cushing
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering
• 24:50
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• 25:54
  Speaker 4: At the Armstrong Advisory Group, we know the retirement might
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• 26:01
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• 26:41
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 26:45
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• 26:48
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax and to state planning advisors before
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: making any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Investment Advisory Services. You're listening to the legal exchange and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it's time for Ask Time, the segment where Todd will
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: answer your questions about anything and everything that's included in
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Susan Powers.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Jenna in Lakefille, Mass and Jenna writes,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: my parents created an irrevocable trust with you years ago.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: My father passed away recently, and I'd like some guidance
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: as the trustee as to what the next step should be. Also,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: if my mother remarries, will she still have all the
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: same protection that she and my dad planned for m
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: sorry planning for phase two of mom's life.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: It was an irrevocable trust with you that was designed, okay,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: and so let's let's try to unpack this. So the
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: first question was next steps because dad died. Dad died,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: so and I'm assuming there were two trusts here.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: One for her husband and he just says irrevocable trust.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: So maybe it's it was a smaller estate, so.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's a joint trust. If we want to talk
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: about it as one trust, I can do that. So remember, folks,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: in this case a little different than with a revocable trust.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: When it's revocable and it's a joint trust, it becomes
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: irrevocable when one dies. In this case, it was irrevocable
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: from the beginning, so it remains irrevocable. What will happen
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: in this trust is there'll be two buckets that will
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: break down inside the trust, and we will fund these buckets.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: So likely this if it was a joint trust, there
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: was probably not a federal estate tax issue, and there
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: may not have even been a mass tax issue. I'm
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: not sure, depending on how large the estate was, but
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: probably if there was two million or less in the trust,
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: that two million would now find its way to the
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: remainder share. The remainder share is designed to provide the
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: same benefits for the surviving spouse, so the surviving sp
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: So many people think that the trust ends. I hear it,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: you hear it over and over. Right, Oh well, it
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: just ends when I die. No, they live on for
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: the survivor, right, So now the survivor has this irrevocable
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: trust with a remainder share bucket and all the money
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: and in that remainder share bucket, we'll get two million
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: dollars designed to equal the state exemption. Okay, there's a
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: marital share that may get funded or may not get funded,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: depending on how much is in the trust.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: In that remainder share, that's a new tax ID number.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So they need to get a new tax id n.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: Correct, a brand new tax ID number for that remainder share.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: And so let's say there was no other money in
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: the trust, that the marital share would just be empty. Okay,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: that's fine. But if there was more than that, say
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: there was three million in the trust, well, then two
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: million would go in the remainder share and one million
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: would go into the marital share, and that one million
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: would be taxed later when the surviving spouse dies in
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: her estate from an estate tax perspective, but it would
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: also get its own ID number and have to file
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: income tax returns every year. So you're right, very important distinction.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: The death tax return gets filed when you die, the
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: ongoing income tax returns continue during life for those buckets.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: So that's what would happen, and that would help from
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: an estate tax planning standpoint going forward. That's the next steps. However,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: the tax returns will be filed income tax returns every year.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: And yes, the last piece of this equation is does
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: she get the same protection she had later? Yeah, that
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: trust is still protected from the nursing home, it's still
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: avoiding probate, and she still has the same access to
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: the assets that she would have had or not would
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: have had that did have when her husband was alive. Okay,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: so you would have all of that now if she
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: gets married, you should probably think about obviously, whenever you
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: get married, come in and talk about how to modify
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: the plan to make sure we're taking care of a
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: new spouse. So I would say, if you get remarried, come.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: In, come in. Something likely needs to be there.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we should probably just come in. But most of
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: those answered questions have been answered for you here, Jenna.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Hope that helps, And folks, that's really part of what
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: we're doing in this guide balancing asset protection and avoiding
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: estate taxes. In there it tells us what about portability,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: how do we use and maintain the unused exemption of
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: a federal exemption when one spouse dies. That's portability gives
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: you the pros and cons gives you all the calculation
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: all the tables to calculate federal estate tax and to
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: calculate mass estate tax. So you're going to learn how
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: to calculate the tax. Put your own numbers in. We
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: gave an example. You can use your own numbers. Then
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: you'll figure out do I want the revocable trust version
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: which is there and explains how it works. Then there's
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: an irrevocable version for folks that have lower estates and
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: want nursing home protection and estate tax at least state
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: estate tax avoidance or I should say elimination. So folks,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: this guy got a little something for everybody. Call and
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: get it eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com will certainly
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: help you get started with your estate plan eight six
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from a lane in Dover, mass
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: and a lane rights. I was planning to gift my
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: vacation home to my kids now to reduce my estate size,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: but someone told me that could create a big capital
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: gains tax later on. How do I know if gifting
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: is the right move? My total net worth is around
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: two and a half million, including my vacation home that's
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: worth around one million. I originally, excuse me, I originally
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: paid around two hundred and fifty thousand for the vacation home.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: For the vacation that's the one she wants to gift.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's worth one million.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Million, fifty So there's about a seven hundred and fifty
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars gain.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And her thought is likely, if I get this million
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: dollar house out of my estate, now, I'm going to
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: be worth one and a half million. And oh no,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: mass tax two and a half million, because she's in mass.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: So this is a great question, folks, And this is
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: you know here we are in the gifting season, right,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: so do we want a gift? Do we not want
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: to gift? A great question, And my initial reaction just
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: off the cuff, absolutely not. I wouldn't gift. But I
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: think we need to break that down for you a
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: little bit. Explain it. First and foremost. I think about gifting,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: I think about what's my federal estate tax limit. Well,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: you know it's thirteen point nine million. Today January one,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: it'll be fifteen million. Well I'm only worth two and
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: a half million, So any gift I would make today
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: is not going to save me forty percent, which is
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: the estate tax rate at the federal level, because you
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: don't have that. I don't have that, so I'm under
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that amount. So making a gift has absolutely no bearing
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: on saving forty percent state taxes. All right, So that
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: kind of makes me say, why am I gifting? Oh wait,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: I have two and a half million in Massachusetts has
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: a two million dollar exemption, so I can save by
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: gifting this house. Right? Well, yes, that is truth under
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: the new mass law. The way it works is remember
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: before the amount over, remember the Cliff rule. Yeah, you
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: don't have that problem now, but so it could work
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: if you were to if you were to do this,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: it could work because you would give it away and
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: then you'd have one point five million. And yeah, because
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: there's no Cliff rule anymore, you would be able to
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: have no Massachusetts es.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: State by giving away or house. She could give a
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: she could avoid or eliminate Massachusetts of state taxes.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: So how much do we think that is? I think
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: we need to do that analysis. Well, if you die
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: with two and a half million, you're paying tax on
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: roughly five hundred thousand, it say ten percent, so maybe
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: fifty grand. Yeah, WHOA, Okay, But if I give it away,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: then I trap the capital gain of seven hundred and
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: fifty thousand that's built into this vacation home.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Right, because if she gives it during her lifetime, she's
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: gifted them her cost basis at the same time.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: Right, no gift tax, Yeah, right, because we have a
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: thirteen point nine million dollar gift tax exemption, so she
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: won't pay any gift tax. She being being Elaine, won't
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: pay any gift tax. Great, the kid won't have an
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: income tax from that, won't have a gift tax, but
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: will have a gain built into that property seven fifty.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: So if she sells it the next day, the tax
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: on the gain, let's just it's twenty eight point eight percent.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Just call it thirty percent. Right, that's seven times three
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: is two hundred and ten thousand dollars. It's two hundred
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: and forty thousand dollars in tax.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: So, which is to save fifteen hundred and ninety thousand
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: more than she would pay if she just kept it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Folks, the answer, keep the asset, don't make the gift
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: pay Massachusetts the fifty save two fifty. Learn how to
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: do this for yourself. Get the guide eight six, six, eight, four, eight, five, six,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: nine nine, or go to our website Legal Exchange Show
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: dot com and download Balancing Assets and Avoiding a State
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Tax guide right now.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. Susan Powers,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: If you're retired or getting close, now's the perfect time
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: to take a fresh look at your estate plan. Doing
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: your planning early can help you protect your assets and
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: keep more of your wealth in your family. Cushing and Dolan,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the leaders in elder lawn taxation, have put together a
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: new guide called Balancing, Asset Protection and Avoiding Estate Taxes,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: and in it you'll learn how to secure your assets
• 37:27
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• 37:29
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• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a clearer picture of your estate tax exposure. The guide
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: also breaks down real options that may help you reduce
• 37:36
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• 37:39
  Speaker 1: right way and plan early. Whether you have an existing
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: estate plan or starting from scratch, this guide makes it
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: easy to understand what steps could help you and your
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: family in the long run. To get your free copy,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: call Cushing and Dolan at eight six six eight four
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. That's eight six six eight
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: four eight five six nine nine, or you can request
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: it online at legal exchange show dot com. That's Legal
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for and
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the use expressed to solely those of Cushingan Dolin. Cushian
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: or investment services. Cushing and Dolin in Armstrong Advisory do
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: The Armstrong Advisory Group understands retirement planning and when it
• 38:12
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• 38:15
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• 38:18
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• 38:21
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• 38:27
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• 38:30
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• 38:33
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• 38:36
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• 38:53
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• 38:55
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the or in any Armstrong
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult your
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making any
• 39:06
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• 40:10
  Speaker 5: We're proud to announce that circle k is now the
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• 40:35
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• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four eight
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: five six ninet nine and let him make sure your
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: assets are protected. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or visit him online at Legal
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So Todd, I'm going to take today
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: kind of back to the basics. Well year wrap up
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: and review here, right, So this guide it's all about
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: asset protection as well as a state tax avoidance my
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: favorite elimination. So let's just kind of start with the
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: first part with the asset protection. Sure, so, and specifically
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: with the asset protection we're talking about the Your formal
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: name is a Medicaid qualified income only airy vocable trust, so.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: You don't need to work qualified, but yeah, it is
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Medicaid I trust.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, So how can one of these trusts actually help
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: protect your your money, your assets from nursing home costs.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's all about ownership and access. That's
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: kind of how it's divined. Right. If it's in an
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: irrevocable trust, arguably you're not the owner, which is good,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: but you also enjoy it still and and sort of
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: control it. But you're not the owner, not really, Yeah,
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: but you're not the owner. So that's how it it again.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: After but again you got that waiting period, but once
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: you put it in after five years, because you're not
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: the owner even though you control and enjoy it. If
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: you don't own it and you can't actually get it,
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: then it's protected from the nursing home.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: And you don't own it because you actually have a
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: separate tax ID number that's issued for the irrevocable trust.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: That's one of the reasons.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're transferring acids out of your name into
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the name of the trust with that new tax ID number.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's it's important to spend a minute on
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: the ID number because there's a lot of people will
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: do two things with it. One, there's a lot of
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: people that that put just their home in yep. So
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: if you put just your home in or just a
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: vacation home in that you don't rent, then there's really
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: no need to tell the irs that we have this trust.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: So I would say no ID number there.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Because there's no in taxable income or event that would
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: need to have taxes paid on it. So I'm just
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: living in your house or in your vacation hooks exactly.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: So you would absolutely not tell the IRS. So it's
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: not the ID number itself that provides the protection. It's
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: the irrevocable trust itself, okay, that provides the protection. So
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't get an ID number if it's just that.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: But you're right. If we throw money and let's say
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: we take one of your investment portfolios and throw it
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: into that trust, now we need an ID number because
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: you can't put the money in.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Without it, right, Okay, it's just a little.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Difference because some people don't want to be bothered filing
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: tax returns. And you wouldn't have to for.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Just a house, just your real estate that's not rental.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: And so if you're just putting your home in there,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: you take care of the home with the deed when
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: they when they sign their trust documents, so life doesn't
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: really change for them, right, not at all.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Really, it's so great. It's the old set it and
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: forget it wrong commercial. Right, Yeah remember that. Yeah, only
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: a few of us remember that.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I think there's enough of us out there there, particularly
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: listening to this show where we all remember that.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the flowby.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Core Memories unlocked.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: You didn't forget it. You don't have to do much
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: of anything. Just live in your house, like you said,
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: live in your vacation home, pay your bills, sell it
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: when you want to sell it. Just okay, work with
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: the trust. You can do it.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: And it's the rules that kind of go around Medicaid
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: planning that kind of necessitates this trust, and you're you're
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: just following the rules, the Medicaid rules with these trusts.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: It's not that Medicaid wouldn't know about this trust because
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: if you went into the nursing home and applied, oh yeah,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: they're going to see all of this stuff.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: You're not high right. In fact, it's required. They ask
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: questions right on the application. Are you a beneficiary of
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: any trust? Did you create any trust? Are you a
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: trustee of any trust? They have specific questions on the application,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: so we have no trouble saying here's the document and
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: here's what's in it, and here's the access that they
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: have or don't have right to the asset. And it's
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: that access that provides the protection.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: And the gist of that is, did you give anything
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: away in the past five years that could otherwise be
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: used for your care? This is beyond the five year mark,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: and then you're protected.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: That's right right, set it up now five years later,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: it's protected from the nursing atle So, folks, these are
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: just one of the two trusts that we're talking about
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: in this guide. It's balancing asset protection and avoiding estate
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: taxes at the same time. Right, the first part is
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: all about revocable trusts and portability and un understanding how
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: to calculate the federal estate tax and your Massachusetts estate tax.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: We provide the tables, We provide an explanation of the
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: trust and the marital share and the remainder share and
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: how it works. Then we do the same thing for
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: smaller estates that are irrevocable trusts, which is what Susan
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: and I were just talking about. That explains how those
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: irrevocable trusts also have marital shares and remainder shares. They're
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: a little different, they're drafted a little differently, but they
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: work for sheltering mass estate tax. And since they're irrevocable
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: and we explain how they work, they protect the asset
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: from the nursing home. So, folks, this is something in
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: here for everyone. Call and get the guide. Learn what
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: kind of a state planned path is right for you
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: or Legal exchange Show dot com Brand New Guide for
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: the Month eight six six eight four eight five six
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: or Legal exchange Show dot com.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: So the word irrevocable, it sounds scary for a lot
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: of people. It sounds like you're giving up control when
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: you use a trust. Couldn't you just give your money
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: away instead?
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, who's going to do that?
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not gonna do it, but and people
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: have done it, But couldn't you just do that?
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: We have to we have to laugh about it though,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: because folks, I don't want you to do that. Right.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: When I do planning for people, we make sure that
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: the moms and dads of the world are in control
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: of their assets. They are not in a position of
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: weakness just because they did an irrevocable trust, which is
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: kind of what you're insinuating.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: But they're not their own trustee.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: They're not their own trustee, but they can remove and
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: replace that trustee. So they're really directing the show.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: So you can fire the kids anytime no reason, disinherit that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: It's funny because a client recently asked me, isn't it
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: hard to do that? I go, No, you send them
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: a letter. It's not hard at all. You have to
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: talk to them. We're not asking them to resign. Yeah,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: we're directing that they have been removed. Yes, So it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: very simple, very easy. To do and so so it
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: you know, you keep that control over the asset, but
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: you get the protection that you're that you're looking for.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: So and if you just give your money away and say, oh,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: they're good kids, then you're really giving up control, right, Yeah.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: And you know the downside of that is and yeah,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: you reminded me of why I wouldn't do it if
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: I give it to the kids. Now I don't have
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: any of that control. Not only that, I've probably created
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: tax problems for them, as we talked about earlier with
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: the step up and basis being allowed the capital gains
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: being lost, So I probably created tax problems for them.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: I've lost control. They could kick me out, they could
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: have a divorce, and I would end up losing that.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: They would lose my house, which is not helpful. So
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: we don't want to put things in their hands. And
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: I think the big misunderstanding is somehow people think that
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: if I don't, if I put it in a trust,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: I have to wait five years for it to be protected.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: But if I give it to my kids, I don't.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: That's not true.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Same five years, right, same five years. So you've just
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: given up all control.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and in order to like if you don't, if
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: you don't make the five years, you got to ask
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: them to give it back. It's it's just a nightmare.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: So other than firing your trustees, what else can you
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: change in your trust Because you say you have control,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: but can you change mind about how you're leaving stuff?
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's a really great question and an important
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: one because over time people do ask, you know, well, jeez, Todd,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I got grandkids now that I didn't have before, and
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: I'd really like to leave I like them better, absolutely do. Yeah,
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: you can come in. You don't need to ask the trustee.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: This is not a trustee.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: You're not getting permission from the trustee as to how
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: you want to change it.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: No, this is not a trustee power at all. This
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: is a don't or power. This is a mom dad
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: creator of the trust power. You just call your lawyer
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: and say, i'd like to, you know, modify the trust
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: and we do that through changing the will, exercising what
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: is called a power of appointment built in to the
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: to the trust through the will to get that change
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: made nice, perfectly okay. Thing to do, folks. Learn about
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: the benefits of both revocable and irrevocable trust they're in here.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: Call and get the guide Balancing Asset Protection and Avoiding
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: Estate Taxes at the same time eight six six eight
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine to nine or Legal Exchange
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: show dot com a brand new guide for the end
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: or for the beginning of the month. As we move along.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us and we'll
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: be back again next week on the Legal Exchange with
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: If you're retired or getting close, now's the perfect time
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: to take a fresh look at your estate plan. Doing
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: your planning early can help you protect your assets and
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: keep more of your wealth in your family. Cushing and Dolan,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: the leaders in elder lawn taxation, have put together a
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: new guide called Balancing Asset Protection and Avoiding Estate Taxes,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: and in it you'll learn how to secure your assets
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: if you ever need long term care, how to avoid
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: having everything tied up in probate, and how to get
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: a clearer picture of your estate tax exposure. The guide
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: also breaks down real options that may help you reduce
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: or even eliminate your estate taxes when you plan the
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: right way and plan early. Whether you have an existing
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: estate plan or starting from scratch, this guide makes it
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: easy to understand what steps could help you and your
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: family in the long run. To get your free copy,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: call Cushing and Dolan at eight sixty six eight four
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: eight five six nine nine. That's eight six six eight
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: four eight five six nine nine, or you can request
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: it online at Legal exchange show dot com. That's Legal
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: the use expressed, so legos of Cushing and Dolin, Cushion, Dolan,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do not
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: endorse each other and or not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: At the Armstrong Advisory Group. We know that retirement might
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: not be the end of a career, but rather the
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: start of a new chapter you and your spouse get
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: to build together. Hi, this is Mike Armstrong, and the
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: way you plan as a team can make all the difference.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: That's why we're offering a brand new free guide called
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: Retirement Planning for Spouses.
• 52:17
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  Speaker 5: Mark Vonner is the CEO of Veterans Development Corporation. Mark
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