Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Sarah Tucker - 'The Mortgage Mum' setting up her own brokerage and inspiring female mortgage advisers

Transcript

Sarah Tucker - 'The Mortgage Mum' setting up her own brokerage and inspiring female mortgage advisers · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is Sarah Tucker.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Tucker is a mortgage broker and she runs her own mortgage practice.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: She's known online as the mortgage mum.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: She loves a bit of social media, so we talk about personal branding and a journey around that.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: We also talk about how an appearance on the voice helped shape the direction of a business.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: She was one of the lucky few that got through the auditions and got all four judges spinning round.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: She got to the battles, but alas, she did not get a contract.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not a problem.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: She became a mortgage broker, and now she's inspiring loads of women to take financial control and also to become mortgage brokers through her training academy and eventually working for her.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: She's an absolute inspiration.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: She loves a bit of personal well-being as well.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we talk about that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And she's a true advocate and champion for females in financial services.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy the podcast.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is Sarah Tucker.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Sarah, how are you doing?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm good, thank you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: No worries.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a pleasure to have the mortgage mum on the podcast.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um lots to talk about today, about mortgages and what it's like to run your own mortgage company.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: As I sort of said to you previously, really, we're uh essentially like a financial planning, a financial planner podcast talking about the careers of those that work in financial planning and underneath financial planning is mortgage advice.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I've not had a guest yet that's come from a mortgage background.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, first one.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: First one, exactly.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're my first.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And um and um what's really what's really tough, Christ.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to I get many women on it, I'm a nightmare.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: But um, no, so the key thing here is for me to is to really get a good understanding of your journey, really.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um why you chose mortgage, uh, mortgages to work in.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you're a business owner, you know, you've set up your own business, your own brand.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's a lot that people can learn from that.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And being a business owner myself, I can know how difficult it can be.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'd love to hear some of your sort of stories, journeys, and and learnings really from that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think first of all, what would be really nice to um to sort of understand really is first off, how did you end up becoming a mortgage broker?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, um, so I worked in the mortgage industry as one of my very first jobs, um, way back when, so when I was say 21, and I was an administrator then, but it was the first, I think everybody has it, the first job that clicks and they really, really love it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So your first few jobs tend to be, you know, not necessarily the best ones, but that was the first job I remember absolutely thinking, oh, I love this, this is so interesting.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, however, it was around the time of the credit crunch, um, a couple of years later, and so we all I had a team of administrators by then.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was working my way up to directorship, and um the whole company went under basically because of the credit crunch.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So overnight um it disappeared.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went up to London for 10 years and just thought, I want to go into London, I want to do something completely different, and did um a legal KA position for 10 years.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but I had and and it was a lovely job, it was very comfortable, it was easy-ish, and I had a nice social life, it was nice.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I got married and I had my children while I was there, I had my first child, certainly, and I always had sort of my own ambitions on the side, so my job was never my main focal point during those years.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I always wanted to be a singer and was always trying to be a singer on the side.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And after many, many years of trying, um I was I've been on X Factor and got really far, and then they didn't air me.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a really long story basically that led to the point where I was sitting at my desk, I was meant to be on Britain's got talent on the Monday, they called me on the Friday and said, sorry, sorry Sarah, we can't actually put you on the show.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've got to make a cut, so you won't be auditioning on Monday.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there's just points, I think, in your life where you just it flicks the switch, and I was just sitting there thinking, I can't, I can't do this anymore.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I cannot, I can't keep doing this where people like build me up and then let me down.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm 31, I've been doing this since I was 17, I've got a daughter now, something needs to change.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember crying in the toilet and then going back to my desk and thinking, right, what can I do?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've got so much energy, this job isn't doing it for me.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: What can I actually do?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I remembered the mortgage industry and I thought, oh, maybe I could be a mortgage breaker, maybe I could do it from home actually.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I could be, yeah, maybe I could do that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where are my kids and I could build my own little business?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I Googled how do you become a mortgage broker and found out you had to do CMAP.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um that seemed pretty straightforward.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I signed up for the course, and basically it was that moment of rejection, years of rejection, but that particular moment that that drove me to be a mortgage broker.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And within six months of studying, I was qualified and yeah, found someone that would take me under their wing just part-time round my job.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that's how I became a mortgage breaker, basically.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you become, yeah, okay.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: So back of your mind, you you know, um obviously from the introduction, you've been on the voice, haven't you?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have you you've you've gone through the sort of talent pooling, if you like, of all these talent shows in the UK, ending up going on to the going on to the voice.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll sort of talk about that in in a in a minute, actually.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: But what's interesting is that build up to the build-up, you know, you in the back of your mind you've got these two, you've got these two things, haven't you?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: You've got you're working, you're a mother, yeah, wife, I assume, at the same time.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wife, yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Wife, yeah, yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So your mother, wife, you're working, you're doing that, but in the back of your mind, you've got this drive and ambition to be a singer.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you've kind of gone down these routes and by the sounds of it been rejected.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Britain's got talent, you've built yourself up, you're thinking you're gonna get there, you're gonna be on TV or whatever, and then someone takes that away.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do you think what do you think it was at that point then that made you just switch and think differently?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Was it you just did you just give up?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Did you just think I just can't?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because it because I was it's it's hard because I think um a lot of people saw rejection, you know, rejection's part of the industry, you have to get used to it.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um, there's only I'd had situations where I'd gone on the X factor and managed to get in front of the judges, which in itself is a big deal, and because there's so many rounds before you get to the judges.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so many.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I tried for years just to get in front of them because for me I was very unconfident, and I really didn't know if I was any good.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: All my friends would say I was, but I didn't have that external validation, and I always say, I think everyone is looking for that at some point in their life.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: They they want some that's what social media is about, isn't it?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we want people to say, that's good enough, you're good enough.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so for the singing, Simon Cow was huge at the time, and he was very honest and very blunt.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that's who I need to get in front of because he's gonna tell me if I'm good enough or not.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I did get in front of him, and I did get told by him that I had it, and that I should get used to the bright lights, and that I had four yeses, and that I had every aspect that I needed apart from confidence.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, if you just start believing in yourself, you've got you've got it all there.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I had the most amazing experience, and then I got sent home in the middle of the night in a shock, you know, one of these shock things like, Oh, we're sending half of you home.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're in it and that's your dream, and you've got in front of Sam Cam, you've got your four yeses, and your families run on stage with all t-shirts with your face on, and you're thinking, Yes, I've done it, like this is it, this is what I've been working for.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then it ends in the middle of the night.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: He grabs me and said, Sarah, you were that close, don't give up because you've got something, just don't give up.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I walked home, and and then it never got aired.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was at home thinking, What the heck is this industry about?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I thought that I would definitely get aired on TV in that moment, and that was the hardest pill to swallow.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was when I was 23, and I couldn't let it go because I was so close, and then obviously I had my daughter, and I thought, no matter what happens, if you say to people, I was on the expert and Simon Cow said this, they want to YouTube it, they want to find it, and it was nowhere to be found, except or if you were with me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I had this like real unfinished business feeling of I'm not going to be satisfied until I did make this happen for myself, because you know, if something happens to me, I've got no proof that I that I did that and that I pushed myself and did it.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the Britons, you know, me trying again when I had a daughter is me thinking, right, now's the time.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it didn't work again, and they then called me again and said, you know, sorry, we're gonna let you down again.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um it gets to a point, I think, in your life where you just think, oh, like this isn't, oh, I can't keep doing this to myself, like it's just a question that's so toxic.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you could relate that to anything, not just singing, but like bad relationships or just decisions you make that aren't necessarily good for your well-being.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: You make them again and again, and at some point you go, no, I'm not gonna do, I can't do this anymore.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's causing me too much pain.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew that, but I'm grateful for it at the same time because it led to me getting this passion where I thought, right, I've got to put this into something different, and that's led topages.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a really that's really interesting because it's part of being a musician, and stop me if I'm wrong, is the story, isn't it?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's who you are, where you came from, why you're singing, you know, and they love that on the X Factor, don't they?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: They love it on you know that back that backstory, single mum, you know, da da da da and all this kind of stuff.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: They they they build it up as this story, and it almost and then you it's about you as a person in your in your brand, isn't it?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Almost, you know, your personal brand, your story, who you are.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I can imagine doing something like that and putting yourself out there in front of so many people, putting yourself out there, putting all your emotions out there for the world to really see and to judge.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you are saying, here I am, take all of me, do it, do with me as you will type thing, because I need to know whether or not I'm gonna be a success.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: I need to know whether or not I can be a singer.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I must have must I it must be soul-destroying at the time to not achieve what it is that you want to achieve, you know?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it was, it was.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then I can sit here and say, now it's happened, so it's okay.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: If I was still chasing it.
• 11:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: That led you, but so that was the kind of was that after or before the voice?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Before.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that was before the voice.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you did that, and then you at that point you said, right, I'm gonna, you know, this is voice is further down the line.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: You said to yourself, right, I'm gonna set up a business.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'm no, sorry, I'm gonna become a mortgage, I'm gonna become a mortgage broker.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about that then.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you've had your heart broken, you know, your dreams dashed, you've learned loads about it, you thought to yourself, right, I'm gonna get myself into a job here, I'm gonna get myself into a career and channel that energy that I had into doing something positive and being the best I can be within my my new career path.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you study to do C map qualifications.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to us about that early stage of being a mortgage broker, then, because you are called the mortgage mum.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I assume flex, I assume flexible, you know.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: First off, what was it like in the first couple of years of being a mortgage advisor?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Were you employed, self-employed?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: What did you learn within those first couple of years?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when I first became uh qualified, I have quickly found out it wasn't as straightforward to be a mortgage broker as I thought.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what to do with this qualification.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: You Google that, it doesn't really tell you a clear path.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But because I'd worked as an administrator all those years before and because of lovely social media, I just messaged somebody that you know I knew still did it, a one man banned, and he took me under his wing.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I started self-employed, but because I was already employed in a job in London three days a week, it was my side income, my side hustle, if you like.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I there was no pressure for me to earn a particular amount.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to learn what to do with the idea that once I had another child, I would potentially leap and be fully self-employed, um, which I think for anyone that owns their own business is a scary concept.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been employed your whole life, you can't quite imagine not knowing what you're gonna earn each month.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so on the at the start, I just did friends and family.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was hard to learn because I was learning on the job.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I from what I gather from lots of brokers that I've since spoken to, that's kind of how you do it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with a mortgage broker, the CMAC qualification is not going to get you the knowledge you need to be a broker.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Being a broker will make you a good broker or not.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so now obviously we teach people how to be brokers, so we try and add a little bit more value than that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: But at that time, I kind of learned as I went along.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, it was it worked.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't quite know how when I look back.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I worked a lot of evening, well, I worked every evening, but when you're passionate about something and you're so driven, and when something's new, I think you find all this energy, and I was so determined to make it work that yeah, it it kind of just did.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I did mortgages in the evening or in my lunch break or in the filing room.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: You were doing um, yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you were you were you were so you had your PA.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Did you say you were working in London still?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: In London as a PA, yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So Wednesday.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Monday to Wednesday.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, taken on your qualifications and studied started studying that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: From getting your qualifications thought, well, now how the hell do I become a mortgage advisor?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, reached out to somebody on social media that you knew who said, you know what, why don't you come and join me?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take you under my wing.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's self-employed, but I'll give you some support, I'll give you some help.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's very it's exactly the same in the financial planning industry in respect of um getting the qualifications, your level four diploma in financial planning, for instance, or your C map qualifications doesn't make you a mortgage advisor, doesn't make you a financial planner.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's the it's the experience.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem is, it's like when you then get that qualification, you're like, oh, brilliant, I'm a mortgage advisor.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or yeah, brilliant, I'm a financial advisor.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And what you've got is a backlog of people sitting there going, like, now what?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then you've got all these companies saying, Well, I'm not going to take you on because you're not experienced.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And people are sitting there going, like, Christ, I've just spent a load of you know, nine grand or something, just doing my level four qualifications, all that time to do it, and now I can't get a job.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a struggle that we have within the financial planning profession as a whole.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's this kind of lack of financial planners coming through.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think 1% of financial planners are under the age of 35.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: You've got an aging population of financial planners that are kind of gearing up for exit and not enough kind of um ability to bring advisors through from a young age and mentor and coach and train them through.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a big gap there, you know.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: There is a gap there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's financial planning.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Have you found that within the mortgage industry?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Are there, you know, you know, I run a recruitment company that does recruit for mortgage advisors, but you also run a mortgage company that hires mortgage advisors?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Have you found that it's easy to find mortgage advisors, hard to find mortgage advisors?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: What's your experience of hiring somebody into a mortgage role?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we nurture people from the seed of an idea.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we nurture those women who are wondering, is this for me?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Could I do this?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Could I do this about my kids?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Am I clever enough?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't worked for years.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: What are you know, can I do this?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we say, Yes, you can.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Join our study group, get your C map, you've got all of our support.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: We've all been there, we know how it feels, we know you're anxious, we know you don't believe you can, you absolutely can.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so we nurture them from the seed to then they feel so empowered when they pass because that is an empowering feeling when you go as an adult, I'm gonna do this, and then you do it, it feels great, it feels brilliant, even better than school exams because you chose it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then they get that empowered feeling, and then they go back to feeling, oh, what do I do now?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's kind of where the mortgage mum comes in, is we're trying to provide that space.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we can't do it for everybody because there's much more people than we thought would be interested, um, and it takes a lot of time, so we have to block, do it in blocks, but that's their whole intention, is because for women especially, and mums especially, if you're entering a mortgage career and you're going to a company and saying, Hey, I'm brand new, I don't have a lead bank, I don't have a lead source, I'm not sure how to market myself, um, but I'm intelligent.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, but I do have kids as well, and I'm kind of going to want to be there to pick them up.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of want to be a mum as well.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think many people would say, Oh, yeah, sure.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'll absolutely hire you.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I see that and go, that works, that is brilliant.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know that works because I've done it and I had another job.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I know how to look after that and and nurture that and get the best out of those women.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not always easy.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is a juggle.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's a massive, massive struggle when you're trying to parent and work and all the rest of it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the niche, that's the niche gap that we're trying to fill with the mortgage mum, is those people because they're intelligent, amazing women who are who can do an exceptional job.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, nine to five doesn't have to look it, not everything has to be nine to five to work.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know that for a fact.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we're just trying to break the mould and just kind of, yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to talk, I really want to talk about that because it's very current anyway, flexible working.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and one of the biggest challenges that some women have in entering back into um work when they have children is this I've got to go pick the kids up from school.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: It tends to fall, it has can fall more so on the on the on the mum's shoulders than it does the dad.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: The dad's got a the ability to be flexible in their role, they want to be part of it.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a father, I want to be part of my daughter's life.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm lucky that I run my own business and I can spend time at home with her, I can get home at a reasonable time and all those types of things.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: My wife is running a jewellery business, trying to be a teaching assistant.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: She's applying for that.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she's at home looking after Isabella and doing the mum things as well.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it is a balancing act, isn't it?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: It really is a balancing act.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there are so many women out there that are more than capable, more than capable of doing doing the roles in financial financial services, such as financial planning and mortgage advice.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, it lends, it does lend itself, especially the self-employed model, it does lend itself to flexible working.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: But there is this kind of barrier to entry, I think, that people have.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, how am I going to pay the bills?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: How am I going to win clients?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: How am I going to know what to do?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so I think there's that worry and that fear.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And people think, well, I kind of I prefer a salary because if I get a salary, what does that mean?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it means I'm going to get training, it means I'm going to get support.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: It means that company's investing in me and they want me to, they want me to work for them.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm kind of giving myself a little bit of a buffer.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, that the the employed model doesn't really suit your target niche market, does it?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not really, no.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you're sort of you're, you know, and I want to learn more about this mortgage mum thing because obviously you started, you know, mortgage broking, did your qualifications, started mortgage brokers, started living the life of a mortgage broker, um, whilst whilst juggling all your other things, you know, looking to a career in in in singing and children and all that kind of stuff.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: So when did mortgage mum actually become a business?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you're a living mortgage mum, but when did mortgage mum become a business and why?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I started calling myself the mortgage mum um in 2018 as a bit of a joke.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was just an Instagram handle.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was with my friends and I said, She went, You're like the mortgage mum trotting around, Leon C, doing your mortgage and your mother in.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, that's catchy, you should use that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh yeah, that's really cheesy though.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, No, it's catchy, you should put it on your Instagram, make yourself a mortgage mum, do it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember doing it and then going into, I was then working for a mortgage company.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd I'd broken away from this one man band and was working underneath um a company, so I had more support, more admin support and protection support.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I remember going into them on the Monday and people saying, Are you the mortgage mum?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Have you called yourself a mortgage mum?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm lying.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, maybe.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's okay?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I was very self conscious at first, but um, by this point, I'd had my son um.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Joshua, so I had two children and I'd gone fully self-employed, and that's when I went to this new firm because I thought if I'm going to do this fully self-employed, I now need more support, and I wanted to go somewhere where I could see the business was growing, and so I had more potential and felt like I've been more looked after in terms of potential leads and things like that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I met a guy called Jamie, who again I worked with all those years previously.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you never know who's going to play important roles in your life later on.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so important to build relationships with whoever you're with, and because you just don't know when those connections will later serve you.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I had my son Joshua.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I met up with Jamie and I said to him, Look, this is how I do it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've got some clients, I want to be at home, I'm not going to be coming into the office, but I will work hard.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I have my son in my sling, I was feeding him and trying to make notes, trying to be professional.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he now he now says, That's the moment.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as I saw that you were feeding and writing notes and had a smoothie, and I was late with my piece of paper, I thought, this girl can juggle whatever she wants, she can come in.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's become a bit of a laughing point now.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyway, we'd been we've been working together and I struggled after having Joshua.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I still don't know why that happened, but I had postnatal depression once he was six months old, which I never even thought could happen.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was a newborn thing only, and really, really struggled, didn't know why, still carried on doing the job, but in that time of struggle, I found my spirituality and my connection to self-development, and I started investing in myself as well as my career and you know driving all these things.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I started making carving time out to sit and sit with myself basically and meditate and do Reiki and all these things.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in doing that, in having Reiki, I found that after all those years of parking the singing, it was still there.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if you know anything about Reiki, do you?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my dad's actually a a Reiki master.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm just okay.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't practice it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he doesn't practice it.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he doesn't.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, but um, I do understand the basics of it, but you fire away and explain to me.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I was quite a skeptic, but I had it done.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I was at the point where, to be honest, I felt so um not myself.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted anything to help me, and so I someone said, Make it we'll help you.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: It could be that you need clearing, your energy needs clearing.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, I don't even care, I will do absolutely anything at this point to feel better, and that's what that's where I do think obstacles are derivation, always say it because they can lead you to something you wouldn't have otherwise looked for.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't, I would never have had a Reiki appointment when I was thriving.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um why would I need it?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So at that time I needed it, and she put her hands around my sort of they hover your hands over your body and they can energetically sense if there's blockages, and those blockages can create emotional imbalance, physical um symptoms.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she said to me, There's something in your throat, and there's a huge ball of light in here, and but it's like you're wrapping your hands around it, and you know you're not letting it out.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: She said, All I can see is Ariel from the Little Mermaid, and she's singing, but there's nothing coming out.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I burst into tears, and I said, Yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Does any of this mean anything to you?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yes, it does.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I used to sing, I don't sing anymore.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, You need to, like that is you were given that, and that is light that is meant to be shared, people are meant to hear it, it's it will heal people, and I was like, Okay, so slowly I let my singing kind of become a little thing again, and I put a few videos online and I put a video into the voice as a result of you know, putting it out there again.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um with this self-development, I don't know if you've ever done anything like this, but we got asked um, but I was part of this kind of mastermindy group, and we got asked to all come in live and say it was five years later, and this is all the things that have happened in five years.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like a manifestation exercise, but to a new level, and I've never done anything like it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I did come in and say that it was 2023 and that I'd been on a television show with my singing, and I'd had this incredible series of moments, and that my kids were there watching, and that I'd had amazing comments, and you know, I described it in masses of detail and said, but you know, I didn't become a pop star, that isn't why I did it.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I did it because I wanted that moment that I've searched for for years, and then after that, I've set up a company, and this company helps women all over the UK become brokers.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And until I'd said it, I didn't even know that it was an idea.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just it just came out because I was live, and I thought, after, what's this company that I'm talking about?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then within six months, the voice called me and said, We want to audition you, and we've and then I did a series of auditions and ended up getting a blind audition.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just knew, you know, I just feel like you do get gut feelings, and I thought there's something about this this time that feels different.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I got taken onto the stage when it was rehearsal, and I will never forget it.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: I as soon as I stepped foot on it, I knew I thought, oh wow, this is the stage, this is the one, this is the one I've been waiting for, imagining, dreaming of it's this one, and it's taken me 16 years to stand on it, but I know it's this one.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so when that blind tradition happened, I mean you can see it on YouTube, but um, I was so scared because I knew how important it was in my life, but I thought I was going to mess it up, you know.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think you get that last minute panic, and I just completely panicked, completely let my inner my inner chief and my inner demons take over, and um, but thankfully got over it and did get four turns and and did have the most incredible moment ever.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't notice that you were panicking, I watched it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: I watched it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Panicked.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I got taken off.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's how bad I was.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because it must have maybe on the clip that I saw, it didn't it didn't show that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the clips, no, no, they didn't show it.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: To be fair to them, with the voice, it didn't go down that whole drama route.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so grateful because it was genuinely just about me, my kids, my husband, that moment, that was what it was.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't built to be anything other than what it was.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but backstage, I yeah, I was so ready.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was so ready.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd practised thousands of times, and that song I sung, I felt every bit of it because that was how I felt when I was in postnatal depression.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so suffocated, I didn't know what was going on, but I knew I wouldn't give up.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's just so much was everything came down to that moment, every single thing I'd experienced.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was singing about so much of my own pain, it was really easy to connect to the song.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, the night before everything went wrong.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: My son was teething, we were stuck in traffic on the way to Manchester, I got two hours' sleep.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was just everything you wouldn't want to happen the night before.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I can get panic attacks anyway, not not very often nowadays, but in extreme stress.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think anyone's capable of getting them.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the producer backstage, it was just luck that she'd read a similar book to me at the time, Daring Greatly, by Brene Brown.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she was standing there and she said, Look, it starts in 20 minutes.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: When this starts, you can't stop it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you panic or something goes wrong, you carry on.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get a chance to re-record it 20 minutes, and that's it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna run like a train and it's not gonna stop.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're if there's a problem, you need to tell us now.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I just stood there thinking, I am so not ready for this to happen right now, I don't feel right.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she just said, Sarah, can I have a quick word?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, sure, because in rehearsals I've been fine.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she just took me to one side, and as soon as she took me away from all the other contestants and all the egos and all the confidence, I burst into tears and I was like, I'm gonna mess this up, I'm gonna mess the words up.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what if I don't hit the notes, my daughter's gonna be watching.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've been telling my daughter that if you think and believe, you can make stuff happen, and what if I don't make it happen, and all this panic, and she was so good with me.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for anyone that's listening that did see it or or isn't or is now gonna go and see it, you don't ever believe that people are as serene or in control as they are.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like to get to those highs in any business, people see the clifftop, people see when people got millions, they don't see the struggles, the bits where they've got their head in their hands, or they're crying, or they're anxious, or they've nearly given up.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like that happened in a day leading up to that point, and then I did it, and it came out fine, it came out great.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: They turned, I was very controlled on stage and confident and high as a client, but that day was hell leading up to it, and I think that is the journey of all of us who are chasing those moments.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just know there's gonna be a really big roller coaster, and just know that if you're watching someone's high, they've had a low before it 100%.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much that's relatable, I think, anyway, to anybody that runs a business as well.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you're absolutely right, there are highs and lows in whatever you put your mind to.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you mentioned 16 years it took you to get to the stage, which you might not have even done unless you went through the pain of what you went through with post-natal depression that then led you down the path of uh seeking help through Reiki and uh other means of aspects, reading and uh accounting perhaps and all those types of things that the spiritual side of what you start to have to connect to.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: What's very interesting is that yeah, we all go through these ups and downs.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: We all have these horrible times.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um sometimes on the outside, looking in, sometimes you're a business owner, you're doing all right.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: You've obviously got you know everything's okay for you.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, well, no what it's fucking not, because sometimes I am so stressed out.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I've gotten massively depressed in the past.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: So depression, anxiety, addiction.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: I became so like such a boozer, hiding all my problems of drinking.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um so stressed out.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I like you had to go down a pathway of actually unblocking.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: I had to go through unblocking because I was full to the brim of resentment and uh fears and worries and all those things.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do go out and you seek that support, where it whether it be uh Reiki or counseling or 12 steps or anything spiritual based, it has a real amazing ability to unblock you.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what a lot of us don't understand is that we are blocked up with negativity, pain inside of that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: There is pain that sits inside of us.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: The very fact that you found that pain in your throat um around you know the little mermaids, you know, you were holding on to pain of rejection of what you went through and the feeling of like, my I'm here to sing, I can sing, I've got this amazing gift that I can give.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: But yet, do in the eyes of Simon Cowell and TV, which is all bullshit in my eyes.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's all bullshit, that you're not good enough.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: But in fact, you're a you are good enough, you have an amazing singing voice, and it's about kind of allowing that to uh continue and to come out and to deal with that worry, that fear, the resentment, and all of that.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this kind of therapy and things, I think it's really, really important.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's something that I'm going off a bit of a tangent, but I think it's something that comes into running a business as well.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's hugely important that you aren't just sitting there thinking everybody who works for you is a commodity.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, these are all individuals with their own problems and their own thoughts and their own feelings.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to, as business owners, support these individuals through some of the difficult things that they've got to go through from a work perspective, but also from a personal life perspective.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Having the tools there to be able to write time, why don't you what take free counseling efforts or money towards um uh reiki or something like that?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's part of the running a business is hugely important to look after people's mental health.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I think at the same time, if you yourself are the business owner and you're going through some shit, you have to be able to express how that feels and share that with those around you to help to help people get better.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, you have to have so much awareness as a business owner, I think.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that means that life's gonna deal you stuff that forces you to be aware and forces you to look at yourself.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And because you have to, as a business owner, you've got to constantly look at your business, constantly look at how well you're doing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to change?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: What needs to shift, what's not working.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I definitely think all that experience set me up.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I've just realized I didn't answer the question all of that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I meant to tell you when I set the mortgage mum up, and uh the answer is after that moment.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because I walked on a stage as one person and I walked off as another.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: That I could never go back to that person before, never, because something happened to me.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like my mind, I realized first of all, you can manifest something really huge because I had imagined Jennifer Hudson comparing me to Mariah Carey, and I knew that was pie in the sky.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: If she said anything remotely like that, and what did she say?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: You remind me of Mariah Carey, and I'm thinking, okay, whoa, I can I can actually make stuff happen with my mind.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I've been able to do it since because I'm so blown by it, but um, it made me realise the power we have, our mindset, our minds, our dreams, what we put our heart and soul into, they can actually really change the course of our lives.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was completely blown away.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you'd think I was high as a car, and I was for a few days.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, my dreams have come true.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: No matter what happens, that just happened.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: No one can take that away from me.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: What just happened?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, I didn't think it was gonna air because of what happened before, which but it did air.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they promised me it would as soon as I came off.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I said, they said, Oh my goodness, you wait till this goes out, it's gonna be an amazing episode.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, we'll see if it airs.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, What do you mean?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Did you just see what happened?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: You've got four turns.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, but we'll see, we'll see what happens when you actually get to get to that point.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, the point is, um, I went back home from Manchester and I was just different.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: I went into work and told Jamie, my then boss, all about it, and he's now my business partner.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he basically said to me, sir, this is huge.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could end up being a singer, and I was like, I know, yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, But what are you going to do about your mortgages?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's going really well, and you know, the this whole mortgage mum brand you've created is looking good, and people are liking it, and you're busy.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I know.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I've I've kind of got this pie in the sky idea, but I kind of want to tell you about it.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it's because I felt brave enough to say it, and I always say to people now, the voice gave me my voice, pardon the pun, but it did because I suddenly thought, well, it's no good being in here if if no one knows about it.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I just said it.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had all this stuff that I realised I wanted to say.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and I said, I've got this idea, you know, I'm thinking we could train people with sprokers, and I've gonna have a platform for a little while, so maybe we could, you know, use the platform now.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think instinctively I did know that I needed to do something else because I know what this industry is like, but I didn't want to believe it that time.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to stay in my stay in my cloud.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he basically said, okay, if you win your battle, which was the next round of the voice, you're going to be on TV three times next year.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that's worthy of a platform on Saturday night primetime TV.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: He said, if you do it, I'll do it with you and we can make it a company.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, no pressure, geez.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I had this battle, and I had the most amazing guy that I was battling against.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I was driven.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Think all my drive for my mortgage breaking, all my drive for my singing, I was laser focused on that battle, thinking I have to win it because I have to make this a different outcome to the ex-fact, and all these other times where I've got through the first bit and then it just peters away.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm so pleased to say I did win the battle because then the mortgage mum was born, and um it was just it was an amazing moment again, another amazing moment.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And how lucky that I got to have two, and where I stood on the stage and I thought, um, Will I Am had stood up and saluted me and said, 'You're one of the best singers you've had on the voice.' And I'm thinking, Oh my god, I'm literally this person that I've watched for 10 years, going, Oh my gosh, thank you.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um but cringing aside, I it was very real for me because I'd waited a really long time and it and it did feel just as amazing as I thought it would.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I had this company and I had these imaginary women who were waiting for me as far as I was concerned, waiting for the birth of this thing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so when she said the winner of the battle is Sarah, I just it was just such an amazing feeling.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I just thought, wow, my life is going to change now.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no matter what happens, I'm gonna set up a company tomorrow with this person, and I'm also on the voice, and this is so exciting.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And as it happened the following year, we had to set it up within two weeks because we found out from the lawyers on the voice that they'd own the image rights to it because I was using my face, obviously.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to set it up in two weeks over Christmas, do a photo shoot with the Christmas tree and everything hidden, and get it out on a website as if we we've been here all the time, and um and we did, and the voice didn't end up the way I wanted it to end up.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't win the show.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was tip to the whole time, it really tip to behind the scenes, and yeah, it didn't happen.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was it was another one of those situations where it was I got sent home and everyone was like, What no?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I can't believe, I cannot believe it's ended up the same after all these highs, like the story's still the same ending, like it's at some point you just gotta go, all right.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this isn't my path, but you know what?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the mortgage mum now, and I'm not gonna say it was easy because I didn't want to do the mortgage mum at that time.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to just watch Netflix and eat chocolate and be and I didn't want, you know, I just didn't want it to be true, so I just I wanted to hide.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um one of our ladies who I'd kind of in my hide said to her, I'm gonna set up this company by the time the voice is done.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: So do your C Map now if you're interested.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: She passed it and she called me in my low because she didn't know then, nobody knew it hadn't been aired, so I had a couple of weeks where I could just hide.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Um, I've passed, so like when's this mortgage mum thing happening?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, gosh.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it felt like such a good idea when I was on a high, and then when I was low and vulnerable and sensitive and you know, weak, basically, I just felt like I can't possibly do this.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can I own a company?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do this, but again, I just think life has a funny way of working out because there's no way I would have set that company up at any other time.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to be really brave to set a company up.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm an awe of any business owner because to do it is really, it's really a big brave thing to do.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, everything happens for a reason.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now that time's passed and the company's you know doing well, and I can, like you said to me earlier, it's really nice to feel like you're doing stuff like something that affects someone else's life.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not all about me.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's about other people.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: What you mentioned there about someone contacting you and saying, I've passed my qualifications, when can I join you?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you'd already inspired somebody, you know, you'd already inspired somebody to better themselves.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what we all like is to see uh to see somebody to see somebody who steps outside of their comfort zone and puts themselves out there um unapologetically.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we love it when somebody, we don't love it, but we uh if someone doesn't win, you know, uh we can kind of ever all of us can relate to that.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, what's the percentage of people that ever become a fine, you know, become a singer?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had a footballer on.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like 1% 0.5% of these kids that go through like academies for football become a professional football player.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a financial planner on, and it's he was a he was he was at West Ham.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, wow he was he's made it, you know, he's making it and all that, and all of a sudden, gone.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not unusual.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's not unusual, but it's it's how you bounce back from that.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people, and you know, you could tell it was gutted.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's that feeling of like imposter syndrome, maybe like feeling like you don't, you know, was I really that good or should I have been that good?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, it's like, well, how can I turn this into something else?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: How can I how can I change it?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: And people I don't know, people look at it and they think it's about their recovery, isn't it?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Someone looks at it and they see that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what you've done.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you and I love the fact that you're up there and you just all of a sudden popped up with the mortgage mum.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's almost like purpose, isn't it?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was meant to happen.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: That part Was meant to happen for you.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it just allowed all that pressure, all just allowed you to very clear, clear, clearly go, BAM, I know what it is, and you put it out there.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: As soon as you put it out there, today you are, yes, you're not a top of the chart singer, but I mean you're building a really credible, um, a really credible business.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: But also, as well, what you've obviously mentioned previous as well, is social media, you know, yeah.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: By putting yourself out there in the limelight, the more you do that, the more confident you feel.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even on a very basic level with me, you know, I would put a video out and I was, oh my god, people are gonna judge me and all of that.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: And now I put stuff out and I don't give a shit.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm just like, whatever.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: I am, I am me.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: You either like me or you don't like me, because that's life.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you become a bit more confident.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then social media, instead of it being uh a fear, if you like, it becomes a kind of really great way to get yourself out there in front of people.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you found being the mortgage mum?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because mortgage mum lends itself beautifully to social media.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Being the mortgage mum on social media has generated you business?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, yeah.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I was a broker, I never I've never paid for any advertising.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just I think authenticity, I think um, it worked for me.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the fact I would have the Amazon guy turn up in the middle of my life and I'd be thinking, oh my gosh, and I had stains on my t-shirt, it kind of worked.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't plan that stuff, but that's the stuff that got me the got me where I am now.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And social media is a funny, it's a funny world, and I think it depends what um is going on for you, depends on how you can show up really on social media.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: But like you just quite rightly said, if you can just allow yourself to be seen and judged and heard importantly, that is what you should aim for because everybody has something to say, everybody has something to bring.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be a singer or you know, someone that's really good at speaking to have a voice that's worth listening to or an opinion on something.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: We all have an opinion.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like for years, I never had an opinion because I was just so scared to get my opinion wrong.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, everyone has an opinion, deep, deep, deep down stuff.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you find yourself saying, I don't mind, or I don't know, too often, that's you've got to look at that because you're a person, you have an opinion somewhere in you that you've hidden, and um, social media is just all about for me, it's about constantly pushing that person that's letting herself be heard and seen out there, and I don't know who it's resonating with.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: That person that it's changed their day might not like it or comment or even follow me, but it might have done something that makes them become a mortgage breaker, you know, or it might have whatever, I don't know.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: We don't I what I probably said once, and it's so true, that you don't know, you can't measure the impact you have.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: You just have no idea um the impact that you have.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we think we can by monitoring our like likes and our um, I don't know, track whatever it's called, insights, but you can't, you can't measure the impact you have.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you just got to keep doing you and putting yourself out there and knowing that it will affect someone.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just let's just talk about the mortgage mum as a business.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's talk about mortgage mum as a business and let's talk about purpose.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: How have you aligned purpose to the mortgage mum?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a really good question.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the purpose is something I can spend hours thinking about thinking, am I living my purpose?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because as you probably now well know, I feel like singing plays a big part in my purpose or my voice in some way.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did used to have this real battle when I started the mortgage mum of, but I'm not meant to do mortgages.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's not why I'm here.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's not my purpose.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: My purpose is to share my voice, whatever platform that is.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now I see that um that is my purpose is to share my voice, but also allow other people to share theirs.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that doesn't necessarily just translate to mortgages.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always say mortgages are about more than just money, and money is about everything.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like how you feel about yourself is how you feel about money, and your whole relationship with money is how you feel about yourself, and so overspenders, you know, in some level don't think they deserve um money.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what can if you can't go down right down to the core.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, actually, like this job is isn't just about mortgage advice, it's bringing so much more to it.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's about people, and I love people, like people fascinate me.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the mortgage mum purpose of it for me is there's two there's the customers, and then there's the women we bring in.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the women we bring in, it's about empowering them, it's about creating more space for them in this industry.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, bringing young people into it, showing that it can be glamorous and it can be fun and it can be current, it doesn't have to be soup, grey, black, white.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: It can be pink, it can be, you know, different.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and money, we're always going to need money.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we need the young, dynamic people in this industry putting some life into it because this is something we're always gonna need mortgages and money, and um, like you with your financial planning, we all need that.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is a necessity.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, it's giving those women purpose, their own purposes, which as a mother is so important for you to have a purpose outside of your children, potentially.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you come from a career background, some women really struggle when that goes, and they suddenly think, Who am I?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just mum, and they lose their identity.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: But they're not just mum, they never were just mum, they're always them.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and being a mother is so important, and so it's it's good for them to feel whole in other ways so that they can mother in the way that that is best for them and their kids, whatever that looks like.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then on the other side, it's the clients, you know, just empowering our clients as well to make them not be scared of mortgages and to really understand it and to be educated and to then make really good decisions for themselves, and also I try and encourage them to think about their goals.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like when people come along and they just they accept that life is crap, and oh, it's just about what's on telly on a Friday and drinking on a Friday and back to the grind on a mum-day.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, life doesn't have to be just like that.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you want?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me what you'd like to happen in two years, five years.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's see if this let me tell you what you'd need to do in order for that to happen.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And why can't you?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't that happen?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I I like that as well, that that side of trying to make people think beyond the realms of what they currently think.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a well-an answer, isn't it?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's fine.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like and it's it's the the key thing in the things I hear are you you want people to think beyond mortgages.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just a matter of buying a house and that's it.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: You want to break that kind of there is a there is a feeling that goes behind the purchase of a house, or there is a there are feelings and fears that build up to buying that property, the the concern, the worry, how you're gonna save, have you got enough to save, how you do it.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: So there's that kind of getting somebody to connect with that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not just mortgages you do, is it?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: You do mortgages, lending, other things as well, don't you?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do insurance, bridging, kind of.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's very, it's very trendy right now to ensure that the advisor, if you like, is almost a bit of a coach.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: So there's that's that well, there's that well-being proposition that that that comes into and and rightfully so, because as I say on every podcast, you know, um, some people kill themselves over money worries, you know.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's definitely a problem.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people in debt, there's a lot of people that are not able to think they're not able to get mortgages, um, they've got nobody to turn to, no education about it.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: So they're looking for those inspiring, uh night, uh insightful people that put themselves out there and share their concerns, their worries, and get them to you know, trying to get people to understand, okay, well, you are probably a bit worried.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: You do probably think how you're gonna get a mortgage, but let me let me explain it to you.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let me explain it to people.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's uh where people like yourself are gonna do well in the future, you know, especially around females.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there is a lack of um females within financial services.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: So A, trying to get more women into financial services to be able to then articulate to more females out there who will be responsible for more of the money and inheriting far more money.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's gonna be more female millionaires by 20 something or other, I can't remember what it was, than there are men.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: So there's the transition of wealth to females is gonna be a lot far greater.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Female millionaires.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: So there's more women that are in control of money than ever.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and women are gonna be earning are on the trajectory to earning more money than men.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a massive gap there, and you're in your finding that.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: And what people, I think what women um connect with also, and not just women actually, because that's bullshit.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's another kind of thought process from a man, you know.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: Women, men also like to understand, but we're full of pride and we don't want to be told that you know if someone's kind of explaining something in real simple terms, I'm like, oh my god, thank you so much.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: I am somebody that needs to be explained things, and I love buying into somebody who is keeping it simple.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that's the thing, it's about people like, well, I can't just dumb this, especially with financial services, we can't dumb it down.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've got to make it really complicated and full of jargon.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, dumb it down because people want to hear a dumbed down version.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: And not only that, but they want to understand how they feel around it.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: And are they worthy of that house or buying that mortgage and all of that?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and why maybe they are feeling so sad for so long.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: That you know, I went through a stage of being like um less felt feeling less than.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a I'm a big owner and all of that, right?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why haven't I got a bloody great big house?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Why aren't I driving the fast car and all that kind of stuff?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and it and it and I and it was I was worried what people's perception was of me and how I thought.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then I wouldn't, I live, you know, I wouldn't dare ask a mortgage advisor or financial advisor a question that I recruited for because I didn't want them to feel like I was stupid or like I asked that question.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when people put it out there, simply it allows people to feel comfortable and then they start to think, well, I trust that person, and then they start following you, and then they start buying into it.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's about content, isn't it?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and you're doing it in a really beautiful way.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're elevating your personal brand.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: You are the mil mortgage mum.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's brilliant.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're the mortgage mum, you're putting yourself out there, and you're saying, look, if you want to come in and be a mortgage advisor, we're gonna create an amazing place where women can come in and become mortgage advisors.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um you're looking at a niche, which is females and mums, I think that's great.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the mums, a lot of the mums are dealing with financial all the financials within within the household more so than ever, you know.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about a male dominance thing anymore, you know.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think you're hitting that niche really well.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's about content creation and communicating with those people.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you can put a good two-minute video out that that really connects with them, all of a sudden, without even without even um paying for any kind of promotion, you're getting thousands and thousands of views of your videos.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: Not only that, they're sharing it or they're sending it to someone else, they're saying, Oh, I know the mortgage mum, the mortgage mum, the mortgage mum.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just gonna I can just see yours build, build, build, build, build, build, build.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're oh, thank you.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's really nice.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you've got this beautiful model, haven't you?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're empowering women as well to come in and be the best people they can actually be.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you're inspiring people to get their mortgage and understand mortgages in a different way to the suited and booted man of the past, you know.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um, it sounds to me that you have a good clear wellness proposition to it as well.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: So ensuring that that wellness runs through it because you care and you want people to do well regardless, um whether they're employed by you or whether they're getting a mortgage through you.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the purpose thing again, you know.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing yeah, you've hit the now on the head there.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: The wellness thing is really important to me.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even like this year, because it's so hard COVID.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, in your first year of having staff to have that happen, and the mums are the ones that had the kids turn up at home for four months.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, all of a sudden, our model went from being niche, because we did it all over Zoom anyway, before all this happened, we ran our whole business online, and that was our niche.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that customers could have a video appointment with us, and then all of a sudden, the whole world did it two weeks later in COVID, and it went from being the most amazing business model to being a potential nightmare with everyone having to homeschool and write mortgages, and there was no purchases happening, and you know what I mean?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everything was like, I was like, wow, this is you know, kids at home.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm also a mum, um, and I've got to support 15 others.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like anything, these times make or break you, don't you, don't they?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we really have got the most amazing women working for us who are so resilient.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about that.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, how many, so so the mortgage mum is a business then.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, how many people have you got working for you at the moment?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we've got we've we're nearly at 20.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, seven are in training um at the moment.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: So on the 1st of October, we recruited seven women in as a as a recruitment round, which is the first time we've done it of that level.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had we recruited a couple of people during COVID.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, we're put we're at 19 basically.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my goal was always 20 in 2020, so one more space to go.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know the right person will come before the end of the year.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yes, there's 20.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: And do you take people on who are experienced?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: So as a as an employer, are you yeah, talk to us about your strategy for hiring people in because that will give somebody maybe an insight who's looking for a job.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, experienced brokers um are the dream, obviously, for our for our team because we do focus heavily on the trainee brokers coming in, and that's where a lot of our interest is coming from is women who are studying in our training group and then wanting to come in.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we have got some experienced brokers on the team.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're always um open to talking to an experienced broker.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's lots of banks making redundancies at the moment, and we've had quite a few people contact us kind of from banks that are trying to suss out what their options are.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that, like we said earlier, it's very tricky when you've been employed all your life to jump into a self-employed model.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's that takes courage.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do think it's courage worth pursuing because it there is so much support on the other side, and it's about believing in yourself enough that you will make it work.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we definitely do look at employed brokers, um, but and and we also look at people that have just qualified who are completely new to the industry.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: We know how to train people up from zero to what we call curse status, and which is when you're a fully fledged mortgage broker without needing supervision.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: We know how to do that, we've now done it all the way through.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we've seen people come with no qualification to being qualified, to being care status, to thriving as a broker.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we now know we can, which was always what I wanted is to see it all the way through to make sure this is something that other people can do.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it's really a very open model.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's we we do our recruitments in rounds, so every quarter we take on more people.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's the intention.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we interview a couple of months before, so you need to be kind of ready a couple of months before each intake, and they're January, April, July, September, uh, October.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we've just done one, we've got another one in January that we'll be interviewing for in November.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, and it's I I'd like to always be evolving so that we've always got our doors open every few months because um, but we'll have to see because I I know businesses change, but my dream is to have a hundred women who have made the decision to do this.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do you then give training and guidance around how to position yourself in a social media situation?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, do you give any kind of personal branding, training around that?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find that the mortgage advisors you take on are almost willing to get out there on social media or not?
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh very much a mixture.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not everybody wants to go out there and not everybody is putting themselves out there as much as others, but we get most success from those who are.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: However, as a brand, we bring enough enough business in that those people who are still hiding in the shadows can still work as a broker until they get that confidence, but they're in my view, and I say to them, You're not gonna like me, but I am gonna push you to do this at some point.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it will be for your benefit because they're just not there yet, you know.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see that because I was then um however many years ago.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally get it.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't force people to do things that they're I don't think they're ready for.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a mixture.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: Those who are prominent on social media are doing very, very well, getting lots of leads.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those that aren't up are not getting as many leads, but we're giving them leads.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's okay, it works at the moment with both.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we we do give them training.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at first, that training was me telling them what I'd done because it worked for me.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what I quickly learned is what worked for me was my story is not going to be their story, and I can't just replicate my story a hundred times and have it have it work.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm learning more and more about marketing because I've had to, because how I did it was all organic and it happened, but you do have to have strategy now, and I do think you do need to be a bit more savvy with social media than I had to when I was doing my videos back in 2018.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a couple of years later it's really changed, and now with COVID, it's so saturated online, everybody's trying to run an online business, so it's even more um difficult to get seen and the algorithms change, and then they do do TikTok and reels.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I just have to try and keep on top of what's going on.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I do just think authenticity is the key.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you are putting good content out there, if you're engaging and if you're if you're being consistent, you just have to be patient because that can't not work in the end, it just might take longer.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting, you said to be patient there.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: Did you find that your sort of um inbound business or inbound leads grew over time, the more energy and effort you put into promoting yourself and your business online?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't happen overnight.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely didn't happen overnight, and any shifts I make don't happen overnight either.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if I decide to go live every week, which I've been doing recently, or if I'm gonna release a podcast, which is coming next, I know that's not gonna go, whoo! Everyone's gonna appreciate what I'm doing, all this effort I'm making.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hard because when you are really putting the effort in, and then you put yourself live or you do a video and you put it out there, and you're like, oh, I've done it, it's out there, and then you get four likes and you do it again, and you get 10 likes, and you're like, Oh, what is the point in me doing this?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no one cares.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: I get it, I'm not immune to that myself.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have to check in and go, chill out.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't, it doesn't happen overnight.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because people have to trust you, and they're not just going to trust you just because you stuck one video out that's really good content.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: They have to see you again and again and again, and you have to be right place, right time.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, you just you do have to trust.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's loads of ways you can do it.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you want direct results, you pay for it.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's ultimately like Facebook ads and whatever else, and this is stuff I'm looking into now.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think you can have a balance, probably, and that's something I think we'll we'll be investing a bit of time into finding out more about.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do believe in in value, and if you're giving really good value, not necessarily being paid for it in likes and comments and immediate business, good value will always reward you good results in the end.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: What you put out, you do get back.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you just have to wait and see how that plans out.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think it takes time.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: It takes time.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think what you need is patience and you need consistency and a belief that it's gonna work and you need honesty and integrity.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think these are the key things that if you're gonna put yourself out there, you have to have because if you don't have that, you're not gonna last very long.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you also have to have that belief, like you do when you manifest, like you know, a belief that it will grow over time.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: And also what you'll find, and you'll find this with your podcast, is that you'll release an episode, right?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that episode might get about 50 views, listen, like 50 downloads.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: My advice on that would be to cut the episode into segments for social media, because that social media post that you put out might be a minute or a minute and a half long, okay?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it might be a subject matter that would be really interesting to your audience, okay.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: That subject matter, that segment might get 5,000 views.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: That correlates to hours of watches.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll put a two minute video out, and I did one quite recently, and I've had over 30 hours of actual watching.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_02: Someone's not looking at a picture, they're listening to me talk, they're listening to my My style, my structure, how I come across.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're listening to my message, and it's ours a bit.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that was free and it was organic.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I get messages sent to me, Sam, loved you, loved your posts and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: But they're out there then.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_02: They're out there on social media.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: And with LinkedIn, they do tend to linger around a bit.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're good, and so the more consistent you are.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll put a video out, like I put one out recently about my charity.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm raising money for charity for suicide prevention, Bristol.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: Got loads of likes.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: It raised£500.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's great.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's purpose.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm aligned to that.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: I might release a post where I got invited to a training seminar for financial planners.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll share my experience on that.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a big part of it as well is not to just focus too heavily on you.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, what am I?
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_02: I want, I want people to come and sign and sign mortgages with me because I want to make money.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually like, but I'm going to talk about the mortgage mum.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to talk about how brilliant she is.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to help the mortgage mum.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: And people go, sounds a good guy.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: Look at him interviewing people.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: He's not just doing it for himself.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: He actually cares about other people.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's actually true.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: When you do that, you've got more to talk about.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: Focus less on yourself and focus on what others are doing around you that are adding value.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: You then sharing their stuff, it just gets you out there in a completely more genuine, nicer way.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you're being seen as almost an influencer within the market instead of just a recruiter.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, ultimately, at the end of the day, I've run a recruitment agency.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm positioning myself as I want people to share their stories to help those get into the industry to help it grow because we're lacking people within the industry.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're lacking good quality women within the industry.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_02: I need more influencers, women to stand up and say how brilliant the actual job is and how it can uh be a job that you can do as a mum.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, that's perfect, you know?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it helps you raise your profile in a way that isn't just I want this, I want that.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: It drives me insane when like my guys don't go online and and and and and and promote stuff and all they do is promote their jobs.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: Job this, I got a job, I got a job, I got a job.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, do you not realize how boring that is to people?
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: You might luck you might if you if you went on there and said, here's three things you need to do if a recruitment consultant isn't able to help you find a job, you know, you're a trainee recruiter, you're you're a trainee financial advisor, so you've got your level four qualifications, and you're um and you can't find a job.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the three things you can do yourself, you know, that empowering and sharing with people, and putting that out there would make people go, oh wow, brill.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_02: And other people go, but he gives a crap, so I'll speak to him.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what's happened to me.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting lots more stuff coming in.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now it doesn't mean that I get deal after deal after deal coming in.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm what I'm finding is things are layering.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: So as time goes on, my relationships with people are changing.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_02: Who I am is changing, and I'm becoming way more respected instead of just saying the recruiter.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you respect yourself because you're doing value in your work, you're giving more value.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as mentioned it earlier to you, but the book, the go-giver, is so in line with what you're doing, but you're doing it um instinctively, which is even more powerful.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that's all about a young man who's a go-getter and he's really ambitious and he really wants to do well and get his numbers and achieve his sales.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we've all got that in us.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: If we're ambitious, especially if you're a business owner, you've got that in you.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he meets somebody that says he'll tell him the five secrets to stratospheric success, and he does it all in his own way in his own time, and these secrets are just unexpected, and he has to sort of look for the truth in them every single day or prove like actually do it himself, and it's just brilliant.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very small book, it takes about about an hour and a half to read, but it really created a shift for me mentally, and now I keep seeing evidence, such as this conversation, that this is actually the secret to success is about giving more value than you take in payment.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the laws, that's just a little sneaky one.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's so true because that's what we're doing with those sorts of posts.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're giving value, we're not paid for them, we're not paid, we might not get a lead from it, but we're doing it because, like you say, that's going to give value to potentially, well, in your case, like a thousand thousands of people.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that value will end up translating, but that's not the reason you do it.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You do it value.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine, like, um, it's like uh you exactly that, you're thinking about the things that are causing problems, worries, and fears for people out there.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it could be that somebody's in loads of debt, right?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you might then say, look, if you're in lots of debt, here's here's a solution to get yourself out of debt, or here's some helplines, or here's a way for you to start thinking about getting out of debt, you know, and all of a sudden you're a you're connecting, you're connecting with a wider audience.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, then that wider audience might not buy from you at that point, but they will follow you.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And as they get out of debt and buy their house, they will come to you and buy by buy their house.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not about the the quick deal, and that's a bit that we're we're kind of um we can get um transfixed by is that we need to deal, deal, deal, deal, deal all the time to make money, especially in a contingency-based environment like recruitment or mortgage sales.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's not, there has to be that long-term value.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and um, I get it.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, the one thing that I'm wanting to do more of is work with companies and work with individuals to um help build their personal brands.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's something that I'm building at the moment.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm building a personal branding workshop.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, for example, you would have like 20 people in your company.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: My aim would be to sit down with those people and empower them to come up with ideas to share in a workshop environment and then coach them over like an eight-week period.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we would set specific targets.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is how many um posts I would like you to do.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is a persona map.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to work out what it is your audience would like to hear to give you ideas.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think a big part of it is that people struggle with coming up with the ideas of what to say.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's genuine.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's but I think you take them out of it, put it into a workshop, and empower them to actually understand the persona of their target audience, then all of a sudden you come up with loads of ideas.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I found.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, right, well, how can I deliver that?
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think then we go, I've got to be this, I've got to have a light, I've got to have this, I've got to have the best camera, I've got to have the best editing.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely not.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Pick your mobile phone up, get yourself captions, recording to it in HD, get your logo in the top right hand side, easy peasy, and get your subtitles on it.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Bang.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's the first point of call, is breaking that fear and worry about getting yourself out there.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because it can, I've put videos out there that are so basic.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I look back, and a friend of mine said to me, Sam, like like eight months ago, let's look at your eight months ago videos.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I put them on there, and he goes, that's a guy who is worried what people think.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then let's look at your current one.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's a guy that doesn't give a shit what people think.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I could see the progression.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you've just got to do and get going.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we all have that problem.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if there's definitely a gap within financial planning and financial services to empower, and also it's kind of like a it's a result of red tape.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's a result of people saying thinking they can't say things, you know, because of like compliance.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's like, no, we're not trying to give advice here, you're trying to be relatable to a problem that they have.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about the problem that they have.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody owns that.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's no compliance around a problem or a fear or worry or something.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing around that.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: All you're doing is offering some support and some solution, and they'll come to you when they need you.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, so that's the kind of angle that I think is definitely a route that I want to go down.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I am going down now.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing it, um, I'm building the workshop at the moment.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds really good.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Really good.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, cool.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, listen, I've I've been we've been rabbiting on and chatting for for quite a while, and I think you've shared your journey, you know, from you know, from um, from being a singer, going on the contest shows on TV, Britain's got talent and X Factor, and finally the voice, to to finding your purpose when it comes to running your business, mortgage mums.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_02: You're now helping, you know, women become empowered to become mortgage advisors and and work that sort of flexible lifestyle.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: You're building a business and doing that, you're helping people become more financially aware.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're out on social media.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the same thing to me, you're got you're on a pretty cool path.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really nice to reflect and kind of you know have a chat about it and see what you're up to as well.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's I just like like you say, it's just nice, isn't it, to find out about other people as well.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can be so driven about what you've got to do on your to-do list that you you kind of miss what's right in front of you sometimes.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you do, you know, and look up a term piggyback marketing as well.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many ways, there's so many ways that you can piggyback on the on the back of somebody else.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, if you just literally step to the left ever so slightly, you'll find there's a whole market that would absolutely bounce off of what you do.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden you're exposing yourself to a whole audience of people that you share.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, like, do you do you ever get involved in talking to agents?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, right.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you look at agents, right, who represent young young musicians and stuff like that, right?
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Tend to have quite large some quite tend to have quite large sums of money.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Start connecting yourself with agents.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was a singer, went through the voice.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is what I felt.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_02: These are my dreams, these are the things that I felt and the struggles I came across.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps maybe I wasn't investing enough or I wasn't looking after money enough and everything, or I was worried about buying a house, or I don't know, whatever.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Speak to those agents, and those agents will say, Well, do you know?
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know a mortgage advisor and a mortgage mum.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: She used to be on the voice and everything.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'll, you know, I'll I'll, you know, the representing somebody.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Speak to her, speak to her.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden you've got this network of and you never know where that might take you.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I do believe, um, and I don't know what is going to happen, but I know there'll, I just there's there'll be a moment where it all makes sense.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense on its own?
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I'm not quite there yet, but I feel like all of these weird parts is so connected.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: The mortgages and the singing are so connected, even though they're the complete opposite at ends of the spectrum in life.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But there's gonna come a point, I'm not gonna sing mortgage advice, don't worry, I'm not gonna be like the singing broker, but there's gonna be something where I'm standing somewhere and I think ah, that had to happen for that to happen, for this to happen, for that to happen, and now I'm here, and I I'm just on that road.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, yeah, I'm looking forward to when it makes sense.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what?
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_02: On the outside looking in, it makes sense.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_02: What you have right now is the here and now, right?
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's all you absolutely have.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get your head off the pillow in the morning, I say to myself, oh, everything else is a bonus.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm up, I'm breathing.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_02: My wife's there, up and breathing, my daughter runs down, up and breathing, everything else is a bonus.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you're doing right now is where you are.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be any more than what it actually is.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, I love that.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's really nice.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Things will unfold gradually in throughout your life because you're putting yourself in different situations that will that will that will unravel the journey, you know.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you sit in your bed with your covers up in your eyes and you're saying, I can't go out there and do it today, you're not gonna get anywhere, you know.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you're doing it, you're living it, you're dreaming, you know, you're living it, be proud of what you've got, proud of where you are.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all have to sometimes just stop and go, do you know what?
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's enough, you know?
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so right.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So right.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this year's been, yeah, it's if this year's not us anything, it's to teach us about what's important.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Slow down and just take a breath and just kind of you've set a business up during COVID.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_02: You've gone through COVID and you're still running a business, yeah?
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's doing pretty well.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's amazing.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine what will happen when we're not in COVID.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_00: We forget, I think, sometimes that we're in COVID, we've been in it for so long.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not even so long, but if it's in the defining points of your business, then it's just all you know, I suppose.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I say to these women if you join now, like your financial planners, your brokers that uh you're recruiting for now, if they're joining now, this is gonna be a breeze at some point.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is infinitely harder than it normally is.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So at some point, this is gonna fit feel a breeze, and you're gonna feel like amazing.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, perfect.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, listen, thank you so much for your time, Steve.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate having you on the podcast and sharing your journey.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um would love to love to stay in contact because I really want to see where the journey takes the mortgage month.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, no worries.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, cheers, thanks.