Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.372: The Power Of Japanese inspired Hair Rituals Merged Into A Brilliant Formulation ft. MASAMI

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E.372: The Power Of Japanese inspired Hair Rituals Merged Into A Brilliant Formulation ft. MASAMI · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's the forces of Hell gather.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Only you can stand in their way.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Journey across the expansive open world of sanctuary.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Used from five powerful classes that progress them to fit your playstyle.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Adventure with your friends and up to four-player co-op with crossplay and cross-progression on all platforms.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Hell Diablo 4.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Available now, rated and premature.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to Eric.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is Upka, and I am so excited because I have the immense privilege of interviewing a lot of brands in the coming weeks that are going to be just, you know, really heavy hitters for the skincare space and the hair care space and all that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all thanks to our guest today, Lynn Power, who is actually the co-founder and CEO of Masami, which is a wonderful hair care line.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I have been obsessed since I tried it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome to the show, Lynn.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored to be hosting you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're so sweet.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you're obsessed.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's why you're in the beauty business, right?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: To find stuff that you just can't get enough of.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, you know, and that and also just to find things that are truly, you know, we're always screaming off top of the uh, you know, off the rooftops like inclusivity and we're something that works for everyone.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting here like Lynn's hairline is like perfect.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I have Indian hair.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I haven't had a single problem.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, those kind of things.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to uh actually start off by your career journey, Lynn.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to talk about how you got involved in the beauty industry um and everything that led up to the wonderful line.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you definitely don't need everything.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a long story, but I'll I'll be brief.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I I spent 30 years actually in advertising and um started my career in Chicago at a small agency as a receptionist and then worked my way up the up the chain, so to speak, and moved to New York and ended up running large agencies at the back half of my career.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was CEO of J.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Walter Thompson, New York.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I just decided in 2018 that, like, you know, it's hard doing all this for someone else because I'm literally building all these brands for other people, and I'm not getting any younger.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And wouldn't it be nice if I could actually do it for myself for a change?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was sort of the thinking.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, look, life's short, I need to take control.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd worked on a lot of beauty throughout my career.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the cool thing about working in advertising is that you get to work on all these different categories.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I worked on Wild Turkey and American Express and Hershey's and beauty, L'Oreal, Nexus, Clinique, a whole bunch of beauty brands.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I really gravitated towards beauty.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy beauty.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I like that it's this blend of like right and left brain thinking because it really is about emotional and rational, right?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to me that's pretty interesting.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I left, I left my my CEO job at as at the agency, and people thought I was crazy.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I then met my co-founder, James, because this is one of those times when the universe just intervenes and presents you with an opportunity and you can't say no.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And James had been working on our formulations for 10 years.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I kind of was like, all right, this guy is either absolutely crazy or he's a genius, and I'm not sure which.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: But now I definitely think obviously that it's more of a genius because he is a perfectionist and he wanted the formulas to be hydrating but without weighing your hair down.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he wanted them to be inclusive and work on every hair type, which I'm so glad you brought up in the beginning.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and so and to make clean hair care, if people don't realize it's actually difficult because at least in the US, we as consumers are used to products that give you a lot of foam and suds and cleaning cues, if you if you know what I mean by that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And when you take the sulfates out, you lose that detergent, which is really what it is.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so people don't think their hair is getting clean sometimes with clean formulas.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the reality is it it absolutely is, and our products are low foam.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were able to find an alternative, um, but they're not no foam, like those sometimes we have those cream products that don't don't have any.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think you know, people are still trying to figure out clean formulas.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so in hair care, you know, there are this it's it's shocking to me.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: 90% of the hair care market is still has toxic stuff in it, actually.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Almost all the mass brands.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it it's a little bit of a laggard, you know, in terms of getting there.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think skincare is much more uh evolved, but it's like little brands like us that hopefully will make an impact and get the industry to change too.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, Lynn, and I I love everything that you kind of you know uh because I really there are a few points I really want to hit on, and and you know, one of the biggest ones is this idea of this, you know, I guess you could call it the clean beauty movement not really being there in hair care.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's like, you know, I feel like that needs to really change.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I love your products mostly because, you know, um, I had my mother try them.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't tell you this, but my mother's actually complaining because she has little like bumps all over her scalp.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she was kidding with me the other day and she was like, well, well the other week, I guess, and she was like, I should just shave all my hair off because I'm so sick of you know, um, hair products not working for me because she's very sensitive.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been having her use your line and she's been so happy with it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm you know, it it makes that kind of feedback for me is like everything because it tells me, like, this is you know, brands don't have to cut corners, you know.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: In hair care, I understand it's different when it comes to formulation.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: I understand there's a whole different set of you know, chemicals and the chemistry is very different with what you're working with, but you don't have to compromise, you know, in terms of consumers who do have sensitive scalps, who do have, you know, problems with acne and whatnot, you don't have to compromise.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can still build a wonderful business and a wonderful, you know, set of products.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to actually uh touch upon that a little bit more with you uh in terms of how was that, you know, when you were really kind of going through ingredients and figuring out, I want this, I don't want this.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what was that process like for you, you know, coming from the hair care side of things?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, James did a lot of the heavy lifting.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's my co-founder, and we can thank his husband actually, Masa, who our brand is named after.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um James's husband is Masahiro, and our brand is Masami, and Masami also means truly beautiful in Japanese, by the way.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: But Masa grew up in Japan, and there, you know, his family, his friends, they have a whole different approach to sort of holistic health, what they put in and on their body.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they eat and use um ocean botanicals pretty much every day, the way, the way that now Americans eat avocados, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they do that with seaweeds.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what they would do is actually they'd make seaweed salads and put seaweeds in their soups and all just use them as staples, but then they would grind up the seaweed and add it to their shampoo or add it to their skincare to give them a little bit of an extra boost and some extra hydration.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so James was in Japan with Massa and saw this behavior, and he had worked in clear at Clairol for many years.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, it just was one of those things that clicked that wait a minute, they know something that we don't.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: How can we figure this out?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that was our hero ingredient.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's called makabu.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's grown in northeast Japan.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the formulas are essentially built around that.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's the makabu powder, which allows us to do weightless hydration that doesn't give your hair, make your hair feel greasy or weighed down.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then we've also added in, you know, things like aloe, um, blueberry extract, sweet almond oil, other things that are good for you that sort of enhance the performance of the products.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, it's always like for me, it's interesting when I interview brands because it always comes down to that one hero ingredient.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I really like that because I think, you know, so a lot of people, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but like when it comes to hair care, you know, growing up and even in my, you know, my 20s or whatnot, I was always experimenting, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it was always like these brands that had 50,000 ingredients.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, I don't know what's causing me to break out.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what's causing my hair to look nice, you know what I mean?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like, I was always confused, like, you know, what is it that I'm really working with here?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I um, you know, I find that to be very intriguing that you guys found this approach that's very like centered, you know.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's very important, especially with hair care because it's so closely tied to dermatology.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's I mean, it is dermatology, but it's tied to like skin health, body health, you know.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and so I find that to be very intriguing.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And as far as the hydration goes, I can tell you honestly, you know, I'd mentioned in the beginning of the show that I have Indian hair, you know, what people classify, I guess, as Indian hair.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um my hair, for me, the biggest problems have always been I can't use certain shampoos because either they're not clarifying enough or they, you know, they're not working.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm using double dump out, you know, that's a huge problem for me.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and it's really long.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: I have long hair.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it what I found with your products is that it's it's doing what I need it to do without me having to go around the corner and use like um basically half the bottle every time I'm hair.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you brought that up because I always tell people that you don't need to use a lot of our product.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, you really need to use much less than you even would think.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you can even like pour a little shampoo in your hand, mix a little water in, and then put it on your hair because it is really hydrating and works so well.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then you also don't have to wash your hairs often, by the way, which people are like, wait a minute, you have a hair care brand and you're telling people not to wash their hair.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yes, because you don't need to.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: When your hair is healthy and it's hydrated, it will stay that way longer if you continue to sort of feed it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you just don't need to have, you know, constant showers, which also, you know, that whole thing strips your hair too.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's just it hopefully will help people kind of get into a better routine um with their hair that is a little kinder, a little gentler, and more sustainable, frankly.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just don't need to be using so many products.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that um hair care is very similar to skincare, you can't weigh it down, you know.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that really actually leads me to asking you about your wonderful serum because I think that um, you know, for me, it's fine, you know, I can use a lot of hair care products, but I know that, for example, you know, a lot of my friends who are maybe of African-American descent or people who have just very curly hair, you know, they often have to find products that really work for them, you know, and they can't overly like saturate their hair, you know, otherwise it completely ruins everything.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think your serum is actually beautiful.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful product, and I'd love to hear the um the vision behind that because it's for everyone listening, it's their shine serum and it's really, really, really good.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea there was to basically we have two styling products.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a shampoo.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me just our line is small, it's four products, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: The shampoo, the conditioner, and then we have two styling products, the styling cream and the shine serum.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea behind the shine serum was to give you something that would be light, that would let you manage your flyaways without um being heavy, greasy, um uh, you know, again, weighing your hair down or leaving residue in your hair, um, and also add some shine and pop your color.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our products are safe for color color-treated hair, which mine has been for years.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, the shine serum, you don't need a lot of it, and you just can use it on towel-dry hair or dry hair, and it does just kind of keep your hair intact, if you will, more manageable, especially um in humid weather, um, which many of us are experiencing right now.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it just it just gives you that little bit of of um sort of uh finishing touch to make your hair look shiny and soft and smooth and um and done.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and and again, you don't need a lot and it hydrates.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you're putting something good in your hair.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're not adding something like residue on top that you're gonna have to wash out later.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a beautiful product, Larry said.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I mean everything is in your collection, and even the styling cream is really nice.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not too heavy, it's not too like overwhelming.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of styling creams that I've used are like they'll make my hair really crunchy, and I hate that.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I really hate that.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just hate that too.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And especially for people who have if anyone is like me and you just air dry your hair, I don't really use any kind of um, you know, like tools.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I do when I have to, I guess.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But like in general, I tow I just let my hair air dry, and it's a wonderful, wonderful styling cream because it just goes with your natural hair, you know, the way it normally dries.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I and it actually it just keeps things tamed.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, when it comes to these kind of products, the reason I'm bringing them up is because I want to really get your take on what is it that goes behind styling products as compared to like, you know, shampoo and conditioner.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is there a different kind of approach when it comes to, you know, formulating them or just you know, how you want to create them or how how is that whole process like?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing for us is that we wanted our whole line to be centered around hydration because it really is the number one unmet need in hair care.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and people don't realize that if their hair is not hydrated, like a lot of their hair issues are because of that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like if their hair is frizzy or lifeless or dull or breaks, um, or they're having problems.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you were talking about sort of scalp health earlier, and that's part of it too.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your scalp is one of the most absorbent parts of your body, by the way.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you can have scalp and skin issues there.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all kind of related.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're not properly hydrated, it's it can just create all this domino effect of other stuff.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: So our line is all about embracing this botanical hydration.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the styling products, the key is you want to add the hydration, but you don't want your hair to look greasy, so you don't want to have like styling products that because they're, you know, you're putting hydration in your hair actually looks greasy.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the secret to our formulas is the powder.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't put our hero ingredient in as an extract, which most brands do.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: We actually put it in as a powder.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you looked at our formula, if you put a little bit in your hand of it could our styling cream, for instance, you could see little green specks, and that's the makabu powder.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that allows us to have more active ingredient that does what we need it to do without the weight.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of an interesting trick.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it took us a while to figure that out.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the thing is, our styling cream is almost like a lotion.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like people will rub it into their hands after they put it in their hair.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like they won't wash their hands.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had one person use it as a lotion, and I was like, you know, it's not a skincare lotion, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Yeah, but it's so it smells good and it feels good, and why not?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, that's true.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you want to do that, great, go for it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: But um, the idea being like it doesn't leave that residue.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't feel like after you put it in that you've got to like go wash your hands off because they're sticky.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then it doesn't leave you, it doesn't give you crunchy hair, which I hate.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh, I can't stand using styling products that like leave my hair crunchy.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's no good.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, same.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's very interesting to me that you mentioned that about the active um like using the powder instead.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually really, really interesting because I didn't know there was a the the difference was there, you know, as compared to like extracts, which actually makes sense if I think about it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like scientifically, it really does because the more intact an ingredient is, the more active it's going to be, you know, the less processing it's gone through.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really cool.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, your styling cream is awesome.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not like it's not, it doesn't leave my hair crunchy.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have mostly straight to wavy hair, and I like when my waves come out, but I don't like I don't do anything to make them come out.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: But this when I use your cream or, you know, when I'm just air drying my hair, my hair just looks natural.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it looks natural, it looks beautiful, chained, no flyaways, no frizz.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I also know that you can use it on like really curly hair, you can use it on straight hair.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's you know, for me, uh when I interview brands, for me, like the number one question is always inclusivity and diversity.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like to me, like, you know, what you've done here is is the epitome of that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that we need that in hair care because I feel like hair is this dividing factor, just as much as skin is, you know, amongst people these days.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like there's either products out there for curly hair or there's products out there for straight hair.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no in between.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the more brands that can kind of walk in these footsteps, you know, that you guys are doing here, you know, with your brand, the better because people are so divided over this, you know, they're so divided over, well, I I have to have a certain kind of founder who makes my products because they just don't understand my hair type.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to be like that, you know, it doesn't.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: It just has to be about good formulation, good ethics, good, you know, really diving into what people need.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like when you mention moisture and like hydration, that's a really, you know, common denominator for all of us with hair, you know, all of us.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So such a fascinating conversation because you're right, like hair is one of those things where no one is happy with their hair care products, by the way.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like you talk to people and people might have a mascara they love, or they might have a serum they love, or might, you know, but then when it gets their hair products, they just complain and they're and they all feel like their hair is different.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is like, well, my hair, I don't know, I don't need, you know, and so it is it is very dividing, as you say, which I think is quite interesting.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't heard it put that way when you think about it, but you're right.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so for us, inclusivity was really important.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: We tested our products on every hair type we could find, every ethnicity we could find before we launched.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also wanted to make sure that our products would appeal to men because I also believe like, I'm sorry, but like men of hair, women of hair, it's really not that different.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I just think these these brands, and okay, I was part of this in advertising, but when you manufacture, you know, the men's line versus the women's line and convince people that they need this versus that, it's it's it's really fake, it's just not the reality.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we're in a gender-fluid society, so come on, like, aren't we past that by now?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there still are products out there that are pink and that are you know the dark blue men's bottle that's the five in one or ten in one, you know, like it's just ridiculous to me.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So our products are very guy friendly, the scent is very fresh and clean and not perfumey.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And my son and my husband love our products and only use mossy.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's like, okay, great, because they need clean hair care too.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Men deserve it too, even though even though we sometimes don't like to waste waste our time and efforts um on convincing men about their beauty routines, because it feels, at least in my house, like it can be a lost cause.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they deserve it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the less you tell men about it being a beauty product, the more inclined they are to use it for some reason.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's psychological with them.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think the more the less they know in general, if they just use it and like it, then they don't need to know it's good for you and all that other stuff.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they're just like, oh, it's like in cruelty free.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like automatic, like pink pops up in their head or something.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like can't you can't say things, you know.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, I hear you.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that that's, you know, that's it, and it's important to have these available.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, this is a very interesting topic that you brought up here is this idea of like men's grooming and, you know, how we can get men more, you know, inclined to use and try different products.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I really do believe in this idea of, you know, accessibility and just having something in front of them that says, hey, listen, this is for everybody, you know, and it's not pink and it's not, you know, with flowers and and glitter all over it.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can use this every day.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna work great.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's very important.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think um one of the lines that I found to do that really well was always Oribe.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they were always really good with that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like you know you you guys are very similar in that sense of the the aesthetic the the way the bottles look like it's a green color.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, you know what I mean?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just appealing.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like psychologically everyone loves green.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Who doesn't love green?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well yeah and I I think that's right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we wanted our products to feel gender neutral and simple and kind of Japanese simplicity and zen.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it is interesting to me when I talk to guys who've stumbled on our product either through a a girlfriend, a wife or some other means sometimes they find it on their own.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: But um we have a football player who is like um a potential NFL draft guy.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's really cool.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's got amazing hair um and he loves our products and when I was asking him what he used before us he was like oh you know like tresome and suave and I'm thinking to myself oh my God like this is such a typical guy like he doesn't realize how much toxic crap there is in the products he's been using for so long and it pains me because I'm sure you see this in skincare too like they just use stuff on their skin that is so bad.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea of because it's a veil it's everywhere.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and it's easy and sometimes they don't want to think that hard they just go in the store grab something it says it's for guys it says it's gonna do this but it's like not good.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not good for you.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think if guys understood and I'm I'm generalizing clearly there are men who really get it and we have some really amazing male customers who are all about clean beauty but I think men it's it's they're a little more on autopilot again not to generalize but I'm speaking of my own experiences in my household and my my friends' households um and I do think they need a little more help understanding like why they need clean skin care and why they need clean hair care.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think once they get that it's like oh there is a difference and it works really well and now like my husband and my son won't use anything else because they know yeah no I know I know what you mean I I I definitely definitely have had that struggle myself with my fiance he's got this beautiful curly beautiful gorgeous curls.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm talking like I am jealous you know really jealous and I'm like sitting here and I'm watching him and he had he before like we we met he was using that axe five in one crap that you know and I'm like what are you doing?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have the most beautiful curls so now it's like you know he's also getting accustomed to understanding like okay wait a minute there are products I need to like you know look into a little bit here you know and so I think it's really about you know Lynn I'm I'm not gonna lie it's about accessibility and you know is a it's a topic that's very near and dear to my heart when I especially when I'm interviewing more um brands that are towards the indie side of things it's like you know I really urge all of if anyone's listening and you're in the retail space for Target or Walmart or Sephora or Alta or any of these huge like you know retailers please do due diligence on this topic because we can't keep carrying the biggest of the biggest names like Pantene Pro V is not the only option.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay is not the only option okay let's be real here you know I'm not gonna lie I've said this many times on my podcast Pantene makes me break out I can't use their products no you know no shade Pantene but something's in your products that makes me break out and I don't like that you know and the fact that you guys are still around and you're still you know pumping this to like millions of consumers that's great if it works for people but for me personally I don't like that I would love to see you know something like your product lend you know next to their product on a shelf so that I have options.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know it shouldn't just be five huge companies and that's it.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's all you choose from.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I feel like the isolation really occurs for male consumers is they shop differently.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: They look for products differently women we will go out and we'll find what we need.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Men don't do that you know so it's just like I I feel like there's just this is a very near dear topic to my heart.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm I'm really speaking on this is because I think that there needs to be a huge shift in the retail space and what people are choosing to carry in their retail stores and what they're willing to invest in because there like I said there are so many brands out there that are doing it right that there's just no excuse anymore to be you know hosting brands that are just just because they're huge.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know there's there's no need for that you can have a nice assortment and you know I I really hope retail brands actually you know pay heed to that because they should yep no go ahead no I just want to say you know I want to actually uh you know round out the interview by asking you for you know just your insight on how it's been uh being an entrepreneur you know moving from advertising into this entrepreneurial space um how has that been for you like the journey the personal hurdles you know anything that you want to share with us I mean I love it um and I think it is because you know I'm an older entrepreneur per se um although in my head I'm still like you know 28 so there you go.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um you know it it there are a lot of challenges and and I feel like sometimes people think that oh it's not so hard to launch a business you know you just do a few things come up with a product throw it out there and it's like no it actually is a shit ton of work and it is 247 and you do you do like at least for my personality I'm somebody who thinks about it a lot.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'll wake up with an idea you know like it's hard to turn my brain off so I think um the good and the bad is that I think I'm well suited for being an entrepreneur.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: My parents were both entrepreneurs and I think that gene has sort of been passed down and I get that but on the flip side is you have to really make an effort to pause now and then and to take a breath and to have a life and you know because um you know there's always an excuse to work more if you wanted to you know what I mean like and you know what it's like so you can always find reasons to work around the clock.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's always something to do yeah absolutely something to do and so that's that's tricky and then also cash flow is tricky the supply chain's tricky like there's definitely things right now I think in the moment of time that we're in in the world that have made being an entrepreneur more interesting for sure a little bit more challenging but in lots you could look at the flip side like you know the fact that um podcasts have gotten so popular and we're sitting here doing this you know which is now like I'm an entrepreneur and I have access to do this is amazing.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um all the live streaming that you can do now I mean we're on three or four different platforms you know talk shop live shop shops we're on market we're on spin live like there's just so many things that you can do as an entrepreneur to get your business out there that it is a really interesting and cool time.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I really enjoy.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I also enjoy working with people who I like which you don't have that choice when you're in corporate America trust me true no that's so true and I love that you said that because you know you're right there's a lot of people right now that are just moving into this like independent route you know even you know we're talking about entrepreneurship but even like a lot of journalists I know you know they're moving into that freelance world and they're like I'm sick of it you know I'm sick of working for somebody else I want to do it for myself and I you know I I agree with you I think that there's a lot there's a lot of uh flexibility as compared to like corporate world oh absolutely yes but anyway so yeah I I would say if anyone's thinking about it go for it just do your homework first yeah that's that's great advice and I hope that you know I if there's people listening which I know a lot of you are you know aspiring entrepreneurs you're a lot of people chime in and they say you know I want to start start my own brand where do I start so that's solid advice you know Lynn I think that you have to do your homework and you know just basically pay heed to what Lynn said here because it's it's a journey you know you're gonna be working a lot and uh hopefully you know what you you're doing is worth it.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: But Lynn thank you so much.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is wonderful I love um you know Mossme's brand the whole brand is amazing like it's literally every product I've loved every single one I use it you know regularly my mother uses right it regularly and I just I think that that's the real testament to a brand is if you can find yourself putting it in your shower putting it in somewhere where you're you know you're using it over and over again that's the real testament and if you keep coming back to it that tells you if a brand's good or not so I mean you've really you know you've created something beautiful here and I and I really appreciate you sharing it with us today.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well thank you so much for having me it was really fun chatting about it and I love how you're so focused on inclusivity and supporting indie brands as well.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much and everyone listening if you have any questions at all definitely leave them in the comments but for now I want you to guys to go to the website it's www.lov that's the website for the brand and check out the whole line it's like it like Lynn said there's not a lot of products but every single one of them is a heavy hitter and you're gonna really really love it.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I really urge all of you um go check out the whole line you know get it for hey get it for your husband your boyfriend you know introduce them to the world of you know good hair care and you know just check it out you know that's the whole point of skincare anarchy is to for us to host brands that are really meaningful and they're doing something right and um I really hope you guys take some of our recommendations to heart.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much for tuning in and I will be back next time.
• 33:04
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• 33:36
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• 33:43
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• 33:49
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• 33:59
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• 34:06
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• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.