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Issue 322: Eavesdropping Empire · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:05
Welcome to the nerd Polity. Hi. This is Nick Nastasu, story editor
0:12
on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
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are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. That's correct, it's Aggressive Negotiations the Star Wars
0:30
podcast on the Nerd Party network that you have chosen to tune into. After
0:34
all of your journeys through the world between worlds, you have landed on our
0:38
show and we couldn't be more pleased. And here in the reaches of the
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nether world, where so many possibilities are yours, I am joined by my
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dear friend, an esteemed Jedi scholar, Jedi Master, Matthew Rushing. Matt
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are you ready for today's special topic? I am John. And as you
0:58
were saying that one full introduction to all of our listeners, all I was
1:03
thinking is they've chosen wisely. Indeed they have. They could also choose even
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But please be sure to follow and interact with us on social media at the
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but if you ask us too, we probably still won't. So here
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we are, Matt. We're sitting here, and I was thinking about something.
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You brought a great topic last time, so I felt obligated to try
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to bring my own topic here that's worthy of discussion. And what I was
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thinking about because you know, the field I'm in, I mean, it
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touches on everybody's lives, but the field I'm in, we're dealing with a
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lot of technological questions right now, and a lot of questions about in nation
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and its propagation. And it put me in this headspace, as things often
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do, thinking about Star Wars, where I was thinking to myself, whether
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you're talking about the Republic, whether you're talking about the Empire, whatever galactic
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civilization that you're talking about, how on Earth, well, I suppose I
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should say, how in the galaxy would you possibly manage the flow of information?
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Especially let's put ourselves in the stance of the Empire. You're trying to
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manage a narrative. If you control the narrative, you control the sentiment,
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you control the outlook of the galaxy. You have to control the narrative,
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though, when You're in a galactic setting with all of these different technologies open
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to people. How on earth could you possibly expect to control that narrative to
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keep people from researching what the truth is behind your statements? Because every authoritarian,
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fascist, however you want to say it, regime needs to control what
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people the information they get access to. How on earth could you possibly expect
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to do that in a galaxy far far away? John, I love this
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question, and I'm glad that you allowed me to kind of think about it
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throughout the afternoon. You texted it to me, and so I've been thinking
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about the whole time. And one of the things that really struck me is
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how this would most likely be a lot easier, of course, in the
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Empire than it was in the Republic, because the Empire has much more control.
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But it immediately left me thinking about that episode Double Agent Droid in Star
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Wars Rebels, where we see the listening ship and we know there's more than
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one right all over the galaxy, and they're listening to all of the different
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feeds of the hollow Net and everything else that's happening in the galaxy, looking
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for dissension, and you know, things going quote unquote wrong and the Empire,
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and so the way in which they are looking for information that they would
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want to have changed so they can quote unquote correct it and or take care
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of it, right, which you know, I think I always love that
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that was introduced into rebels because it really created this sense of how big brotherish
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the Empire really was to its empire on the other side, you know,
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when it comes to the Republic, I mean, I think that this is
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one of the things to which George Lucas probably he didn't necessarily have in his
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mind when he was creating the Prequels, But you know, in the world
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we live today, obviously the control of information and what's out there, the
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narrative that is there is the one that wins the day. And I think
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it's almost even more an issue now than of course it was then, because
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when the Prequels were coming up, that's when the news cycles went to twenty
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four hours, and it completely changed all of our lives. And so it
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really is to me just a fascinating question because you can actually see how that
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type of thing most likely was an impetus for things going even more south in
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the Republic as it was falling and of course that Palpatine would be it would
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be paramount in his mind, knowing that he has to control the narrative.
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See I go back and forth on this though, because you're right, I
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completely agree with you. It's the ultimate paradox of a free society is you
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have to be willing to allow people to have crazy opinions and espouse them and
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say, it's got to be a war in the arena of ideas, no
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matter how out there your opinion is. I gotta let you say it,
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because if not, then I'm simply putting the levers of power in place so
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that when somebody who disagrees with me gets in there, then it's used to
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target me. Whenever somebody is in power, they like to think that they'll
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never be out of power. And whenever somebody's out of power, they like
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to think that they'll never be in power. And it's like, no,
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it goes back and forth. You have to be willing to have an open
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and free exchange of ideas for a truly healthy society to exist. And so
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conversely, you have to control the narrative. Like you're saying, you would
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have to have listening posts, you would have to have these things set up.
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But where I fall into, like a weird rabbit hole as we're having
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this conversation is you and I agree that Palpatine's ultimate goal is to create evil,
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is to create a sense of the dark side about life. Life so
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terrible that the dark side energy itself is so strong that it cannot be toppled.
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People live in fear and anger and hate, and so in a sense,
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I would posit that it is easy for us to see the Empire tightening
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the grip of controlling the narrative. But there's a part of me that says,
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it almost seems like they should be fomenting more descent and splitting people among
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even finer lines in order for the dark side to flourish, And the way
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to create true terror is to be agents of that out there while at the
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same time punishing dissension. So they should have agents out there putting out conspiracy
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theories and crazy stuff and getting people worked up and getting people mistrusting their neighbor
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and all of these sorts of things, while at the same time listening to
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hear whether things like that are succeeding, and then say, okay that one's
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getting traction. Okay, we can use Reichstag fire type of thing. We
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can create a narrative out of what we put out there, which gives us
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the reason to get even more power. So I think the most interesting thing
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about that is that I think that there's a lot of truth to what you're
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saying, especially as to what's actually happening with the Empire specifically. I think
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one that Palpatine is doing that, and he is fomenting kind of this undercurrent
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of evil really and all parts of the galaxy they possibly can with slavery and
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all these type of things, allowing the kind of the underworld to have its
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rule, to create a larger sense of fear, and I think all of
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that is absolutely happening. The other thing that's happening, and I was thinking
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about this in the context of what just happened in Rebels and what just happened
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in The Bad Bat season two, where it comes out this information that looks
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like it's going to be bad for Palpatine. Then he again spins for his
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own purposes, which is, you know, this whole revelation about what happened
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with Camino and of course the Clones, and how oh the Clones seem to
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be turning on us, So maybe it's time for us to create the galactic
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starmtrooper, you know. And so he's able to utilize whatever he wants to
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his advantage because of the way in which he's able to spin the narrative to
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what he wants. So he's a master manipulator when it comes to the narrative.
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And I think that's something that so I think you're absolutely right in that
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sense, But then I see it on the other side, where you know,
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Palpatine might be the galaxies best spin man of all time. Well in
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terms of that, you give somebody something to make them sick so that you
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can sell them the cure, and Palpatine is positioning himself as the cure.
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He made the galaxy sick so that he can say I'll cure it. Oh
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yeah, and let's go back to your talking about the criminal syndicates. He
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lets mall run rampant with Crimson Dawn, have all the fun that you want
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to because that'll make people want the empire. So no matter what he wins,
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he's got a pincer move on sentiment. And I think that's really another
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one of those things where I wish that they go into more depth with whatever
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shows that they're doing from this point forward. The Mandalorian kind of scratches on
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how the New Republic is a bunch of fools, and we've when we discussed
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Mando season three over on six or two Club, we talked about ways that
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could have been expressed better, would have been played up more. It's much
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more of a surface read on that one. But I would love to see
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a show wherein they discover that both every lie and truth out there was leveraged
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by Palpatine's own ministry of truth. Because the purpose of a ministry of truth,
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because we all love to talk about orwell and everything, is not to
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determine truth, but to your point, to determine how you can leverage what
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people know to give the state more power. And so it doesn't matter whether
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it's true or false. You'll just go with whatever is going to make people
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give you more power and seed more of their own individual agency. So let
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you know what they Let me ask you this, because we're sitting here talking
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about it. After Palpatine sets up this fantastic mechanism to do that, how
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could you possibly rebound from it? All it would take would be just one
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or two of the wrong people to have access to that network, and everything
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goes right back to the way it was. How could the Republic possibly have
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come back into that and fix it? You know, I think that it's
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one of the places in which, you know, the sequel trilogy somewhat deals
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with but it only deals with it in the literature. I specifically think of
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Bloodline by Claudia Gray, where you know, the information about the fact that
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Leia and Luke's father is Darth Vader finally gets out and it ruins her political
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career, and so this idea of not being able to control the narrative becomes
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an issue, and you know, of course her political appoints are then able
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to use that to their advantage, and she, of course is not able
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to get in front of the narrative in a way that would save herself.
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And you know which, you know, I think in the long scheme of
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things is also an incredible discussion about this idea of something we see in our
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own world where people are discounted for things that they may or may not have
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had anything to do with or could change, Like, you know, could
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could Leia change who her parents are? No? Does that discount an entire
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lifetime of service to the galaxy and trying to free it. Apparently, yes,
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you know. And yet because of that simple fact, she loses her
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political career and and you know, ends up having to go the way of
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you know, almost becoming a rebel again with the resistance, because nobody will
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trust her then when it comes to what happens with the first order. And
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so it's such a fascinating topic because the new Republic falls back into this place
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where, of course there is not one overarching structure spinning the narrative in a
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way that the majority of people will believe, and then leads us to people
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being able to use information and or facts in a way that get twisted to
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suit their own personal gain instead of any kind of greater good. You know.
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One of the things that I think is a missed opportunity too, is
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that maybe the ultimate lesson is that when you're dealing with a place as large
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as the galaxy or a continent or what have you, that a central government
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like it almost seems like the logical step is when everybody realizes that the empire
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is the logical evolution. At some point of the Republic, the need to
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say, okay, we're gonna be federated. We're gonna have that sector in
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that sector, in that sector in that sector, and y'all are going to
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handle your own business and we're gonna have a un style like that's essentially how
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the Republic was, and it's it's just in terms of controlling the information.
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It's one of those things where you know, it's you know, Leia says
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one, the more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip
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through your fingers. It just seems like such a losing proposition, because how
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could you possibly stay ahead of what the people in the corporate sector think or
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in you know, how could you possibly make sure that people in now Hutta
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are informed the same way as people on Tatoweene, as people on Correlia,
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as people on Alderan. And it really speaks to how, as much as
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we all might have this urge to say, hey, we got to stop
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somebody from saying that thing, it's more about, okay, we got to
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do a saturation in the other direction and there and just accept there are going
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to be people you can't reach, right because to go in the other direction
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inevitably leads to Heaven help us all when the wrong person gets the access to
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those levers of power. Yeah, I mean, I do think that you're
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making a great point, Innocence, that the idea of their being an overarching
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government for the entire galaxy of Star Wars, it does seem to be a
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little bit of a pipe dream when we think about the reality of it.
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And yet, you know what's fascinating is that, at least from what we
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know, for over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were guardians of peace
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and justice in the galaxy, right, that there was this sense that there
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was a galaxy that had I can't think of a butter shop, but there
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there was stability, and so that it was possible. And you know,
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I think what's interesting is that in each one of these stories we kind of
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keep coming back to the idea that it's when people begin to choose selfishness instead
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of selflessness that things go wrong. And and so as the you know,
18:57
we especially I think you know very much you can see George Lucas, especially
19:03
in the prequels, the fact that the Commerce Guild and the Corporate Guild and
19:07
the Banking Clan all begin to have more and more control of the political structure
19:15
there. You know, they're not even representing people, they're representing corporations,
19:19
right, and so seeing that corporations are beginning to run things instead of and
19:26
therefore not caring about people at all. They just care about the bottom line
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for whoever's at the top. And I think that there's there's something really interesting
19:37
about that idea, and you know, Lucas really understands, I think,
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unfortunately the way of human nature. And therefore when we look at these things,
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you know, it seemed as though what worked in the Republic for so
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long was that people were holding to more of an altruism as a value to
20:06
which trumped other values, and slowly but surely the values basically the sith began
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to take hold, which of course we know, you know, Palpatine was
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working behind the scenes for so long as well to make sure that that happened.
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Well, the one thing I do enjoy is that, as an example,
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in the Bad Batch, when we first get to chain codes, and
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you know, you talk about the corporations and everything, it's almost like it's
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almost like chain codes or a recognition of the fact that Lucas created Star Wars
20:40
before the Social Media Guild would have ever been in place or the Apple clan,
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but it is. It always starts with a seduction, with the promise,
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hey, do this thing. It's gonna make your life easier, it's
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gonna make it better. Right. The empire does start with a promise,
21:00
Oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, we're
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gonna make things more orderly, We're gonna make things more sign up for chain
21:07
code. Right, Well, we got to get everything in one system so
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that we can make sure that there's one source of truth. Right. But
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the flip side of that being that when there's one source of truth, whoever
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controls that source tells you what's true, and it's it's that's the true dystopian
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nature of it all. Yeah, and then we just get in nineteen eighty
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four and everything goes to pot so you know, or thhx one nine eight
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four is what we would get, so you know, who knows. But
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you know, Matt, if people want to discuss some of these, uh
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these matters of listening and discerning truth with you on channels that are meant to
21:51
discuss such things, where can they find you online? Well, of course
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social media. I am Matt Rushing zero two, So that would be Twitter,
22:00
Instagram, letterboxed or vow the same name on all of them. I'd
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love to chat with you there. You can also find me here on the
22:07
network. I've got a completed show with Drey Kaufman that was called owl Post.
22:11
We talked about every single chapter of Harry Potter, one chapter time.
22:15
You can also find me over on the TFM network, and I got a
22:18
lot of shows over there. I hope you'll check them out. One is
22:21
called the six or two Club, where we're talking about all of the fanoms
22:25
that we love. John's a frequent guest over there, so you hope you'll
22:26
check that out. Got literary treks about the books and the comic books of
22:30
Star Trek, the ORB about Star Trek, Deep Space nine were five about
22:34
Star Trek, Enterprise, Saddle Up about Strange New Worlds, and the Artificial
22:40
Tango about Star Trek. Picard. But you know if, John, But
22:45
you know John, If maybe people want to catch up with you and see
22:48
what's coming out of your ministry of truth. Where can people find you?
22:52
Well, tune into my listening post and my relay of fact. When you
22:57
tune into the channel known as kessel Junkie out there, k s s l
23:02
Ju and Kie. Or you can listen to me ramble on about directors and
23:07
their different works on a show here on the Nerd Party network called house Lights
23:12
that I co host with Tristan Riddell and Darren Moser. But I'm getting a
23:18
signal that I'm picking up here Master Rushing, and it says it is time
23:22
to close these negotiations. John, negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution,
23:34
Join the nerd Party.