Latest / Pioneer Mind Podcast / Trust always Wins in the oilfield!

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Trust always Wins in the oilfield! · Pioneer Mind Podcast

• Mark Workman: Hey, welcome to the Mark Workman Show and the Pioneer Mind podcast, where pioneers start every story. Literally nothing in this world's history has ever started without someone who saw themselves as a pioneer, stepping off of what they know to what they don't know. Literally, they have no idea of the results, they don't know the outcomes, they don't know what's coming, they don't know they really don't, they go with sometimes not knowing everything, but they go because they out of necessity, maybe where they're at isn't safe anymore. Maybe where they're at there is an opportunity. And they see something that we don't. you know ⁓ it there is a there is something to this pioneer spirit that I think has been kind of robbed from our culture. Our young people are are not thinking creatively. They're in many ways, you know. I did a podcast recently on reading books, you know, the idea of building a foundation in you and and ⁓ reading books and and I'm not saying just reading for fun, but reading to learn and grow and being a lifelong learner. And I think pioneers are those people that are learning all the time. And this show really wants to o emphasize this idea of the, you know, that that as a concept in the background about pioneers. Pioneers in how they build and shape our world. And I believe they're absolutely critical to have rise up in this time in history. ⁓ a lot of people would say, Well, we got AI, we got all this innovation, all these things going on. But the truth of the matter is, is there's something going on here with the the people in terms of creativity and creating things that are actually beneficial. So, and then when you look at the oil field, ⁓ talk about people going into the unknown. they drill holes in the ground where they have no idea. I mean, they do. they do a lot of research, but the truth of it is is these guys are pioneers. And you know, here on July 4th, we're we're really, really in a situation where we're celebrating our nation. And ⁓ and I I said this to my guest Tommy here. You're gonna meet him here in a minute. But I was telling him earlier is that I feel so strongly about this industry and what we're doing, and I love the people in it and how they really try to work together to solve problems. And and I think the idea here is that I really don't think we'd even be a nation without this industry. ⁓ you can look at other things, ⁓ insurance or whatever sector you want to find. They they could go away and we'd still be a nation. You rip the energy out of sector out of this nation and what we do in this country, around the world, the leadership we do, the technology. technology we develop, the efficiency efficiencies we develop, ⁓ the people, the knowledge base, the the infrastructure in place, all those kind of things, we we would be sorely in a bad spot as a country. And I believe so strongly in this industry. And I again one of my goals with the show is to promote this industry, promote my people, promote myself, RMI supply. You know, I I've been building this, working on it for a lot of years, and building trust, authority, integrity. And and I believe in this industry, people that don't walk in those certain things, and I'm not bragging or boasting about who I think I am. What I'm saying is if you don't have character, you don't have integrity, you don't have the work ethic, you don't return your calls, you don't solve problems, you don't jump in there and fix it and help fix it, and you disappear, you're gone in this industry. You do not make it. We work together, everybody does, and it's an industry that I have found with just some of the best people in the world that I don't I've received way more encouragement from people than I've ever given. And it's amazing how men have men before me, I'm old now, I'm 61. I've been doing this for a long time. But at the same time, there's guys that are ahead of me that took me in and said, Mark, this is what you're missing. This is what you need to do. This, you know, and again, I'm not some sort of chemist or ⁓ genius, ⁓ mud engineer or anything like that. I understand the language, but you know, there was things I was missing early on, and I needed people to step. Tommy Rivas: you Mark Workman: beside me and do that. So ⁓ I love this industry. I want to promote it. And that's what this show is about. So if you can subscribe and like next week I have shows on oil and gas investing. ⁓ I I have two other shows I'm ⁓ doing so just encourage you to join and subscribe and like. So ⁓ that would that would be great. Well today we have with us Tommy Revis. And he is ⁓ he he's a genius. You know why? Because the the beside his name is technical sales. And I always laugh because I I get these guys on the phone and I sometimes my head just starts sweating. I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, they're just, you know, they're so smart. And you, you, you probably don't even realize how much information's in their head sometimes in terms of things you just spit out automatically, right? it's it's crazy, you know. And it and when I see a technical sales nit title by somebody, I'm I always I think I told you this one time, maybe you're one of our Tommy Rivas: Yeah. Mark Workman: first calls a few weeks back is said I said, ⁓ so you're a genius and you kinda laughed at me and and Tommy Rivas: like no no no no Mark Workman: But it's totally true. So this is Tommy Revis. He's with Dynamic Drilling Fluids. ⁓ I love this company. They're a leader in the industry. ⁓ they absolutely have ⁓ superior ⁓ efforts in every way in terms of engineering products and all that kind of stuff. So I I can easily promote these guys, stand by a testimony of my own business and what I've worked with them and how much I appreciate this company. So here's Tommy Revis and Tommy, tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe a little your. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: Yes, sir. So I started back in 2011 in the drilling fluids community. I started with a small company called Alliance Drilling Fluids. ⁓ They're a great small mom and pops company and were eventually bought out by New Park in 2013. So transition to New Park. ⁓ Nothing big corporate, right? Yes. Mark Workman: Okay. Big corporate. Big you went from small to big corporate. Tommy Rivas: Yes sir, and it was a change for me and one of my great mentors, Paul Webb, he went over to NOV. Didn't even know NOV had drilling fluids. I thought they were shakers, know, main items that you needed on the rig. I had no idea. He's like, you know, why don't you come over here? I'm like, well, what am going to do there? Like, I don't know. It's drilling fluids right now. You he brought me in and showed me the other world of there is a fluid side to NOV, which Mark Workman: Sure. Right. Tommy Rivas: I'll lead into also well, so I went to NOB from 2013 to 2020. That was a good stint there. I got to work from the field to supervisor to technical sales and then from technical sales to area manager. And then I got to close the doors on the fluid side and 2020 just in the U S NOB does have fluids. Mark Workman: ⁓ wow. Tommy Rivas: international, but just US, we shut that all down. We sold all our assets at that point. And then, so I went over to a good company, a good friend of mine, Tom Neidman called me from GEO Drill and Fluids, said, hey, I know you just shut the doors. Do you need a spot? And I was like, absolutely. He's like, come on over. I'll put you on a rig. sounds great to me. So jumped on that, did that for... Mark Workman: Yeah. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: about a year and then I went over to another small company to see how things would start up. mean, always looking at visions and seeing where things will lead to and ⁓ went to Basin Fluids for about two years. And then I went ahead and yes sir, good guys there, know. ⁓ Then I went ahead and went to ⁓ try my own thing and started up True Fluids, which, ⁓ you know. Mark Workman: Yeah, I know basin, yeah. Tommy Rivas: the best lessons in business are the hardest ones that you learn. That's best way to say it. I won't sugar coat it. I I tried for a year drilling fluids and it just wasn't really going. So termed and pivot, did a toll blending facility for a little bit. And I had a couple of partners that didn't go too well. My partners and my partner said, kind of left me high and dry and took off and that was it. Mark Workman: Yeah. Tommy Rivas: But a lot of lessons in there. I'll say that. Mark Workman: Yeah, you know you get You get some of your best education when you step out on your own. That's that pioneer thing. You know, literally you're you you're stepping out into the unknown. You don't really know the results. And and really what I have found, you just kinda hit the nail on the head. When you're stepping out on your own like that, who you absolutely connect with is the most important thing. It it absolutely is the critical thing is who you're connect, who you're traveling with, right? Who you're on the wagon with. Let's, you know, let's think of it that way as a pioneer, you know. Tommy Rivas: Yes sir. Yes, sir. Right. There you go. Mark Workman: gonna have your back are you that are they gonna have your back you know and and and to be honest with you I always tell one I always get on my conference calls with my team we there's about 10 of us and that work together and we all have different roles and do different things and I always tell them you know we don't want all the business we want all the good business and what I mean by that is people that see us as a partner are loyal to us ⁓ you know ⁓ you know we go the bat for them a lot of times there's troubles and we'll we'll make sure something happens for them and they love that That kind of thing. But it's on it's on both sides. There's the people I'm working with and also my customer side. There's guys that I I don't want anything to do with because I know too much. You know, you mentioned one name earlier. I won't do it here, but I I just know how they are and just I I might never get paid, you know. I hate to say it that way. And so, you know, it I want all the good business. I don't want all the business. And so it it it's Tommy Rivas: Understood. Right, and you're absolutely right on that point. I ⁓ I said that it's probably the tougher lessons to learn along the way, you know, when starting a company trying to do something that's, it's learning lessons and, and you try to really trust people in the industry and there's just some that you can't and it happens, but you have to learn the hard way sometimes, unfortunately. ⁓ Mark Workman: Well, this th this business is is really you know, the oil field i it it's interesting. You know, I I had a trucking company for eleven years as well. So I I've been kind of a serial entrepreneur and have always been in this logistics control, you know, all the things I do is the skills that I have. But at the same time, ⁓ I don't know if I've ever been in an industry that is more personable in the sense of a lot of times you're having discussions and you're doing things off what someone says according to their word. You know, I I I'll get this done, I'll deliver that. And and everyone thinks this is some sort of massive industry with, you know, there's a there, you know, there's a lot of employees and it's shrinking, but at the same time, there's just a handful of decision makers. You know, there's not a there's not a big, big range of Tommy Rivas: Yes, sir. That's right. Mark Workman: who people I can call and get an answer from. It's just very small and it's very personable and it's very relational. And ⁓ if you're not in the set, you're not in if they don't like you, in my opinion. And so it's y it does create an an environment where as an industry, ⁓ we kinda are huge worldwide, affect everything. At the same time, it's just like you and our conversation right now, ⁓ Tommy, it's just it's very personable, you know. So it Tommy Rivas: That's it. Yes, sir. Mark Workman: It it really it really is true. So, ⁓ the f in terms of dynamic drilling fluids, ⁓ can you give us a little bit of history there? ⁓ again, I I you know I think the world of the company and in terms of how they've treated me and the respect I've been treated with. So tell me a little bit about ⁓ Tommy Rivas: Yes, sir. So I'll lead up to from that last point, you I went tried my own thing didn't work out just Turned around. It's like new Justin. Mr. Justin Hunter and I said, hey You need many cells people build guys. I don't care. Just put me on something so I can get the wheels turning again, you know, and He said absolutely, you know brought me in and that was in 20 Let's say 2023 Mark Workman: ⁓ Mm-hmm. Right. Tommy Rivas: right there. And so once I did that, I mean, it's been great. From what I know, Dynamik was founded in 2008 in South Texas. And 2012 is when Justin started the West Texas Division, which Permian Basin we're out of. So a big thing. Mark Workman: Okay. You know, that's interesting 'cause that's about when I met him. So he must have just kinda got going I didn't even know I did I did not know that. That's shocking. Okay. Huh. Tommy Rivas: Just left Haliburton. Yes, sir. So I said, that we've been running since 2012. We've had tons of rigs and we've had two rigs, you know, it's just the way the industry goes. We fight it tooth and nail. mean, personally, there's things that, ⁓ I don't know why sometimes I do drill and fluids because in my head I'm like, man, it's a tough industry to sell. Like it's tough. It's rough out there. But then I remember like, I love it. mean, the passion. Mark Workman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: of trillin fluids I love. like you said earlier, having knowledge, mean, reading and doing those things help get you to another point to be able to be in technical cells or being more technical out in the field and things. definitely like that point there. As to dynamic, we've been doing pretty well this year. We are very good on say, I'd like to touch on customer service. mean, we make sure we are in front of everybody and anything happens. mean, we're Johnny on the spot. We're gonna make sure that you're taken care of. We don't want any of our customers to ever think that we're just another vendor. At the end of the day, we want people to know that, Dynamic will step in and take care of us. And even if it's having to eat cause for a situation that might've happened that we're unsure of. Mark Workman: Right. Right. Tommy Rivas: might've been us, it might've been the well, we don't know, you know? And there's a lot of those situations that happen and it's just a matter of figuring them out and true trial and error. mean, at end of the day, there's a lot of that that does go on, but there's a lot that we can engineer and make sure that this is the way it goes. But unfortunately we do have wells that will take on a flow or have some that we didn't anticipate, know? Crazy things have happened to me. Mark Workman: It's crazy. Tommy Rivas: during my career and you know, I'm just like never saw that coming, you know, but it does happen. Mark Workman: No, that's that's that pioneer thing. Like I I I even ask I I have a guy that I do a regular show with and he's ⁓ operator actually and and I just and and I just said there's times when you're talking, I'm like, why in the heck would you do this? You know you know what I mean? And you start thinking about it, it it it literally is absolutely in the dark. You you you don't know. Every well's a pioneering situation, right? ⁓ it it it Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. And the crazy thing is we have to look at it in the standpoint of, we've got to trust in our guys in the field, which we do, and telling us the information that they're getting out there, what they're seeing going in, what's coming out, because we can't see down home. I I wish we could. That'd be amazing. We wouldn't be sitting right here, Mark. But, you know, we can't see it, but all we can do is... Mark Workman: No. Right. That's right. Right. No, that's right. Tommy Rivas: take the information that we know beforehand and take the information we get after and build a case and figure out what's going on, what's changing, what's trending, those things so we can ⁓ make a conclusion and then, okay, this is what we think is strong, now we need to go ahead and make a treatment, adjustments or whatever it may be. Mark Workman: Right. No, that's right. And it it's interesting. So what's the biggest challenge for a technical sales? A guy like you in this environment right now, in this time in history? This we got an Iran war, we got prices that have been very volatile, very h up to one twenty recently, I think, one eighteen, down to sixty eight. ⁓ you got ⁓ competitors out there, you're basically in West Texas. You don't reach out of that, do you? Tommy Rivas: All We don't really reach out too much. We do touch a little bit of Oklahoma. We got a sales guy down there named Sammy Chandler. But yeah, Sammy's great. I love him. And ⁓ you know, he takes care of business up there and he's kind of like me, know, jack of all trades, technical sales, everything else. I mean, I think the toughest thing right now is just seeing what operators are going to do. Because at the end of the day, Mark Workman: No. Yeah ⁓ I know yeah Sammy, yeah. Mm-hmm. Tommy Rivas: We don't know if they'll pick up rigs or, you know, right now we're getting really efficient at drilling. mean, taking less time on wells and we're starting to do longer laterals, U-turn wells, you know, those things are coming along now. And so seeing those things happen, it makes it tough for us to really be able to just sell mud because some of these guys got it figured out and they got them down to like cookie cutter wells as to what they're doing. And they, that's what they want to do. Mark Workman: Right. Right. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: And that's great. But there's other events that happen where some operators like, we true service 100%. We really need to out here to make sure these wells go well, because we're kind of blind at this point on some of the wells that we're trying to experiment. I mean, the big thing that's popping up in Permian Basin right now is Barnett Shell. Well, they're starting to drill, you know, and everybody's testing it to see, and we're seeing different things and ⁓ casings. Mark Workman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: set differently, everything. So it makes it tough for us to really sell, just trying to navigate through it and then trying to get some of our operators that do some of those wells right now to help navigate us and where we're needing to be. And then also have that information to give, you know, like a mud recap to another operator to show them, hey, we can do this. We've done this in areas, just wherever y'all want to do this, we may have some luck, we may not, you know. Mark Workman: Right. Right. Well Tommy Rivas: But, ⁓ Mark Workman: You know, I I think, you know, I I as I, you know, my view of is ⁓ you know, the thirty thousand foot view is always where I try to start and then I get down to the small thing. But in my 30,000 foot view, I I I can feel like in in in my career now is that it we've seen so many drastic changes in terms of the industry, in my opinion, you could disagree too, totally totally just have a different view. It's okay. But from my view, it's like it's shrinking because of efficiencies at at the same time we're creating systems that are making decisions that the people used to make and and ⁓ and the industry's changing in a way and i think like i i'll never retire i'm i'm in my 60s but i i i just love what i do i'll probably work i'll probably the day before i get put in the ground i might be talking to tommy revis you know whatever but but i i i hate to say it but i'm just so driven to have fun and enjoy and and i love my work you know so i i'm not trying to say too much Tommy Rivas: you There you go, right, Mark Workman: But my point is that I think in in the next 15-20 years, we're gonna see this upheaval in industry like operators and the in the way we do it, operators, the service providers, then you have vendors like there's a distribution chain, right? I just I just wonder how that's all gonna look in the next because I just feel like there's there's you know, I can name the companies that have kind of just stepped aside and quit, you know, and it's it's really interesting. ⁓ Tommy Rivas: Right. Mark Workman: So I just see a lot of change and I wonder how it's all gonna look in the end. ⁓ and maybe you have a different view on that or where you think it's going, but ⁓ you know, these efficiencies that you mentioned are real and they are changing the way people are absolutely spending their money, right? Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. And you're hitting a great point. I don't know what the next five years may look like. mean, think about it with AI, we are trending really fast, you know, and it's making big waves and it's moving. And we're kind of like, what can we trust? What we can't trust. And then, you know, that's why you're going to have to have a, you know, Mark Workman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: guys still double checking these systems, I think it's great in a way. But then, there's the other side of things, right? The good and the bad, so is it always gonna be 100 % correct? Mark Workman: Yeah. Well, I don't think I can remember my dad, he would taught me taught me how to diagnose a vehicle's problem. And he'd say, Pop the hood, turn it on, and he'd s put his ear over it and he'd listen. And he'd go, That is the and he'd name it, and he'd be right. And it was a sound. Tommy Rivas: Yes, sir. Yes sir! Mark Workman: Or maybe a smell. ⁓ you got blow by the you know, whatever. You know, it sound sounds like sounds like a dumb thing, but I don't think AI can do that. I have I have a a a friend recently, they did some AI on a well and they they stopped it because it failed miserably, you know. So yeah, it it it makes a lot of mistakes and it loses the human touch and the human intuition of I've done Tommy Rivas: Mm-hmm. Yes, sir. Mark Workman: you know, say you as a a ⁓ a technical sales or mud engineer have done hundreds of wells, that wealth of knowledge is not in terms of being on site, hearing problems, seeing problems, smelling problems, whatever, those senses that those senses that we operate in as beings isn't in AI. Tommy Rivas: Hmm Yes, sir. Yeah, that's a great point that you make there because, instance, I'll bring up this deal, ⁓ which this company, ⁓ I've mentioned to you before, and they have a mud analyzer. Great. And I think it's a good tool for us to see trends and be able to catch things before disaster happens. And we're all... Mark Workman: Yeah, right. Tommy Rivas: out there doing our job and we expect, you know, like the derrick can or the pit hand to watch the fluid and tell us, you know, every hour, every update. But sometimes those guys are in a pump, you know, trying to get everything taken care of to get a pump back online or they're diagnosed with something else, you know, and we're relying on them. Well, that's kind of where that comes in and involves with ⁓ the fluid itself that I think is a good thing. Mark Workman: Right. Tommy Rivas: but I don't think they can replace the mud engineer. And a lot of guys I know that are out there, I try to tell them like, don't be intimidated by this technology. This is good for you because you can watch a trend and you can see how things are going. And if you see something change just a little bit, you already have an indicator saying, hey, this fluid might be getting a little light on certain chemicals or, hey, the worst case, know, like what you've seen before is like. water flows come in. You you start seeing viscosity change, start seeing other indicators saying, hey, we got something going on down hold that we can't see. And that's where we need these kind of systems to help us. But like you said, I don't think a system like that can replace knowledge of guys seeing these things happen. You know, I just think they're great indicators and they help the guys out there, especially our guys. Mark Workman: No. Tommy Rivas: that are out there, like I said, they're great about getting us this information and everything else. But if I can see another side of it, or they can paint me a picture over the phone, that's kind of what I tell these guys, like, hey, do the best job that you can to paint me a picture of what you're seeing. You don't have to give me every detail, like just tell me what you're seeing, tell me what ⁓ your testing is, rheology, discos, I don't care, just give me as much information as you can and then. Tell me what you saw before. Tell me what you're seeing now. What happened? Give me a little story so I can build in my head. Most of the time, I'll say like 60 % of the time, I can probably diagnose it through the phone and be like, okay, I've seen this before, But I've done a lot of wells over the years. I've been on a lot of wells. So. Mark Workman: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And again, that's almost irreplaceable. And and I I think that's another thing that's a challenge for our industry is that ⁓ foundational ⁓ you know number of people that walk around with that knowledge is kind of decreasing, you know. you know what's You you you w we maybe can jump to this question, but one of your one of the questions beyond here is what makes a a good or bad at mud engineer, you know? and it it it's so hard to become a good one in ⁓ i in terms of time. It takes time. Tommy Rivas: Exactly, and that's the crazy thing. So one thing my mentor told me, he's like, I think he is 81 right now, I believe. Great, great guy. And I loved learning from him just because he had so much knowledge and been all over the country. mean, from here to international, I he was all over the place. Mark Workman: Wow. Right. Tommy Rivas: But there was always a gap. He told me about there's a gap in mud engineers, you know, and I was like, really? He's like, well, you think about it. says, ⁓ you're here and you're 21 years old. He's like, think about the next guys that you're replacing, you know, that you're going to have to fill in. He says, they're probably 50, you know, and from there, you know, they looking at guys like me and at that time is in the seventies. He's like, there's that gap. Mark Workman: ⁓ my. Yeah. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: that we have to get that knowledge and we got to continue to pass that knowledge along to these younger generations because if not, it's gonna get lost. And he's always told me, he's like, be afraid to share knowledge. If you ever think it's a deal of somebody's gonna take your job because you share knowledge, it's like, that's never a good sign for you. Just always share knowledge, be helpful. Most of the time, no one's ever gonna take your job because... Mark Workman: Yeah. It will. Tommy Rivas: you're helping, you're trying to grow. You'll probably get a promotion versus a demotion or being let go, you know? And there's some guys that do have that mentality out there, like, ⁓ no, I gotta keep all my knowledge. And like, no, I'm an open book. You can call me and I'm like, man, I may not know that question or that answer at this point, but let me get you some more information or hey, I might know somebody. And that's the beauty of our community is that, you know, we see a lot of people, we... go to different areas sometimes, or we're just in the Permian Basin alone, we still a lot of guys come in and out. And that's kind of where you see these things and see different things and people know each other. And that's the great thing about this community is like, we definitely have a lot of people moving in and out that helps us expand knowledge. Mark Workman: One hundred percent. And I and again, you know, it's one of my philosophies is I I call it being others minded as a as a rule. Like I believe hoarding and keeping things for yourself is a selfishness that will end up destroying you. I I have I have benefited more in my thirty five year career in I've never I always I think I told you I've never had a job. I've I've always done my own thing. Even at age twelve I was mowing lawns, making my own money. I painted houses during college. I never Tommy Rivas: Yes, sir. Yeah, cuz... Mark Workman: went and had a job ever. You know, and so and the only way I've ever made it in in as I've progressed in my ability to operate at higher, higher levels or whatever I'm doing, ⁓ with the trucking company was a great training ground. The oil field is amazing. You learning, you learn every day. You just can't stop from learning. It's unbelievable, right? And and I always tell my wife, I'm a guy that sells chemical and ⁓ either works on trucking or is reading books to figure out what this guy just called about Tommy Rivas: Right? Absolutely. Yes sir. Mark Workman: that he needs. I don't know anything. You know, I mean I laugh about it's crazy. But but but you no but you gotta be others minded. And I always benefited from the things I gave away than the things I tried to hoard. Tommy Rivas: Yeah, and... You're right, you're right, 100%. We don't always have the answer. Mark Workman: I probably had a fe I probably had a fear mode in 2008, just to tell my story a little bit, is that things were kind of crashing on me. I don't know how old you were then, but I was right in the middle of my career, and I'm just like, man, this is COVID was another one that I ⁓ it didn't scare me. That one didn't scare me as bad as 2008 did, but I could see it coming, you know, and I was just like, okay. And then and and you do have this tendency to start building walls to protect yourself, right? And I that's that's absolutely the opposite. You need to be helping. Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. 18 to crash. Mark Workman: Helping everybody. It needs to be like you said, you just sort of helping people, others minded, your business will grow, it will flourish. Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. Mark Workman: You know, I I think before the show I talked to you about the idea of we're not just producing content. I could care less about us being down in the weeds technically or whatever. And we can go there, especially on future shows. But the truth of it is we're trying to build the the authority and trust in ourselves is that we're being genuine and we're being real and we actually care that you're on the pi the guest to whoever's trying to learn about investing or oil and gas or or other people that are in this industry that maybe want to learn some things. Tommy Rivas: Yes, sir. Absolutely. Yes sir. Yes, absolutely. At the other day, I want to be known as trustworthy, you know? I never want anybody to anything bad about me. And I won't be surprised if somebody does, you know? It's okay. But I know deep down inside, I was honest and trustworthy and transparent as much as possible because I'm not the greatest salesman in the world. I can tell you that right now, I'm not. But I'll tell you this. I will say you trust, because I am trusted and a- Mark Workman: That th that they can trust us, right? They're Wow. Tommy Rivas: transparency. mean, I'd give you that all day long, but I mean, and if something happens. And that's really what I try. Mark Workman: It it's probably the thing you are selling. Trust. It's not even mud and fluids in some ways, it's trust. Yeah, you know what I mean? Tommy Rivas: Yeah. And some, some customers, yeah, they, come to us because they trust us. We've worked with them before and they're like, Hey, we got this high profile well that we're going to do. We need a team that really can help us out, be technically sound on all these things. So let's go ahead and do this well. And it might be a one-off well, but we're there to do those wells, you know? And I think that's where that trust comes in. And they've seen us in those ⁓ tough situations, making decisions with them and. ⁓ Mark Workman: Yeah. Yep. Right. Tommy Rivas: everybody being a team, you know, that's the big thing out there is ⁓ making the operator and every service company that's out there as a team. think that's one of the things that we do well. We try to include everybody because we don't know all the answers. We don't know what solids controls may have been seeing for the last 10 hours, you know, or what might be some of the pit handsaw that we didn't see, you know, we try to get everybody involved so we can all have a good idea and a good game plan moving forward. Mark Workman: No. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, this is a good time for a quick break for our sponsor of this show, what happens to be dynamic drilling fluids. We'll be right back. And welcome back to the show. It's ⁓ we're just glad to be back here today. And we just thank you for your joining us. And ⁓ again, subscribe and like it helps the show, it's free to you. And again, we're trying to get a message out here ⁓ and and that that I want to promote. ⁓ and I there's definitely people interesting. The show is growing. I am excited about that. You know, ⁓ the first time I did a few episodes back in ⁓ last year, ⁓ I was so disappointed, but I realized that clicks is vanity. really ⁓ what happens is is your subscriber base even if you had a thousand or two thousand net messages going everywhere whether you believe it or not so it it you don't need a lot of clicks and vanity stuff you actually just need to do stay focused and do what you're doing which is what I'm trying to do so anyway we're back to Tommy we're so glad he's here and and again he last week when I had a failure I'll just tell on myself I had a failure ⁓ technically and I will totally take responsibility and What a numbskull I am. So we're back here on July fourth, believe it or not, in the morning, ⁓ on a holiday. Yeah. ⁓ Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. I think that was my nerves, honestly, to tell you the truth. I'm just so nervous that I didn't know. was like, oh man, you got me on the spot. But hey, I just got to let it happen and it is what it is. Mark Workman: Yeah, that's that's what I was getting to say is he said it was his nerves that caused the problem and I said I don't think so. So but ⁓ you know, you talked about communication just second ago. How many l how many people do you have to communicate with on a well? Can you do have a number in your head? 30, 40, 10. How many people do you communicate with on on a regular basis throughout the day, maybe throughout the week the period of week, week a couple weeks or how long how fast are you doing a well now? A couple weeks, three weeks or Tommy Rivas: Oh, yes. So we're actually got a couple of 30,000 foot wells within 16 days from spud to TD. Yeah. Mark Workman: ⁓ my gosh. That used to be forty days, fifty days. It's crazy. Wow. Tommy Rivas: Yeah, we're definitely moving now. Like I said, we're getting really efficient and I know a lot of people are like, well, where are the rigs? know, everything's looking good. Where are the rigs? like, well, the portion of it is that we've gotten more efficient on what we're doing and trying to keep those finishes to keep the operator happy, you know? They make more whenever they can knock these out in less days, you know? Where, yeah, like you said, we used to do a straight. Mark Workman: Yeah. One hundred. Tommy Rivas: vertical well in maybe 30 days, know, roller-coating. Yeah, make three connection to the tower, you know, eight hour towers and then we are making one connection, maybe two connections. Mark Workman: That was that was that was unbelievable. Remember? That was just wow. You guys are amazing. You know Right. It it's unbelievable. It really is. I I think it's gonna be interesting the next ten years where it goes. So but I was curious, how many people do you talk to? How many phone calls do you take in a day? Is it drive you nuts or or ⁓ you know, it must be overwhelming sometimes. It must be overwhelming sometimes. Tommy Rivas: Does it drive me nuts? There is some days that I will have a hundred phone calls and it might be just a issue on a well and you know, they're trying to get it sorted out and we're touching base every like five, 10 minutes and it's just like, well, this just changed, this happened, this and this, you just, you just never know. And then there's times where I just say the heck with it, you know, I got to get off this phone. I'm just going to the side. Mark Workman: ⁓ Tommy Rivas: I'm just gonna be there and I'll let everybody, know, from the office to my guys in the field be right there and make sure that we're taking care of the situation at hand. ⁓ you know, honestly, I would say if I'm on the phone, maybe five people I need to speak to, but inside, on person, man, I like to talk to everybody. Mark Workman: Okay, so okay. Sure. Tommy Rivas: You just don't know what has happened or what they've seen in last 24 hours, or this could have started two days ago. Now we gotta put this information together and hope that we can build a good conclusion of what's going on. And so... Mark Workman: Sure. So it At dynamic drilling fluids as a team ⁓ and ⁓ a pr a problem ⁓ maybe a major problem, you know, maybe we can talk ⁓ maybe you can share one time about one of the biggest ones you ever had in terms of how you had to solve it, but what's the protocol at dynamic? Are you on your own? Are you left to your own trying to figure it out, you know, in terms of the decision-making process? Or or it does Justin get involved? Does there's or is there a series of people get involved in like, hey, you know, we need to do this, that, or the other? Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. Yes sir, if it comes to a point that I'm like, whoa, I've never seen this before, I really need to make phone calls or hey, there's calls for something else that we need that we're typically not using on a well product wise or anything like that. I have to stop and say, hey, time out, guys, let me get back with y'all because I need to make a phone call to Justin and get with him and see what game plan we have because it may be a situation, for instance, I mean. Mark Workman: Yeah. Tommy Rivas: I can give you a little situation. This is ⁓ back when I was on a rig and we had an operator. We're drilling a well with clay free, old base mud. And you know, at that time we were, I was scared deathly of clay free muds. Like it's so expensive. It's this. I'm like, I don't want to mess it up. And we're drilling long and everything was fine. And we took on a water flow and our old water ratio got so bad. And, you know, this is where it goes back to making a team, right? Mark Workman: Right. Tommy Rivas: I was contacting my supervisor, my supervisor contacting the office technical sales guys, and then they were contacting the vendors at that point. So everybody from vendors all the way down to the field and even the operator and the guys on site were all involved with this situation because we had gone past 50-50 oil-water ratio, which is never a good thing. mean, 60-40, I'm kind of like, eee. But going past that, I'm like, oh gosh, you know? So we actually ended up at a 40-60 oil-water ratio. We had flipped the mud at this point. But this clay-free system, the vendors were telling us, hey, it's fine. Don't worry about it. And we're like, no, like it's bad. Like they're like, just keep pouring emulsifier to it. It'll be fine. like, and so we're just crossing our fingers, hoping things are going well. And we're able to finish the well with the flow, get out of the well. And then we're like, okay. Mark Workman: Wow. Tommy Rivas: We got a new game plan going forward with the operator. They're like, we're gonna set case and deeper on the next well. So the next four wells, we took the time to recondition the mud, brought it back to life. And there was no huge disaster, right? We saved some costs there. There was some costs, fighting the flow, but operator was okay with it because they said, hey, we didn't anticipate it, but it's here. It is what it is. Let's just keep drilling. Mark Workman: Hm. Gotcha. Tommy Rivas: And so it definitely pushed me to my limits of like, ⁓ no, all base mud is, you know, expensive. I'm scared out of my mind out there, you know, and you're trying to show the calmness out there the whole time. Like, ⁓ this is no big deal. And you're like, no, deep down inside, you're freaking out. You're trying to figure out what's the next thing to do. So I said, ⁓ that was one that we had to get everybody involved. You know, that's a true example of getting the operator involved. Mark Workman: Right. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: their supervisors, the cutting man on site, toll pushers, everybody, because we started fighting this thing. And well, with a flipped oil water ratio, viscosity's go out the roof. ⁓ now we're looking at screens, shaker screens. We had to get everybody involved, know? It was crazy. We had to make changes and we just did it and kept pushing on and we're able to finish the well. And luckily everything went well. Mark Workman: A roof, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Tommy Rivas: got cakes in the bottom, we're like, thank goodness, we don't want everyone to do that again. Mark Workman: No No, it it I I can't imagine the pressure you're on, I be honest with you. I and I have my own pressures. It's nothing like what you deal with 'cause it's such in the moment, isn't it? It's in a crisis moment and you are being there and everyone will look to you and like, what's the answer? Right? They're all you got you got all these eyeballs and and you're standing there, you know, it's like you're on stage doing a you know, a play or something and I forget your lines. You're like you're looking you know what I mean? It's it's terrifying. Tommy Rivas: That's right. That's right, that's right. Absolutely, absolutely. And I've been in those situations, then they're like, so what's your answer? like, I don't have a good one right now. I promise you. I have 50 million things in my head thinking like, this could be this, this, this, this, and just kind of going all over the place. it's like, but what is it? I don't know. We're just going to have to do a little trial and error. And some operands don't like to hear that, but honestly, it's one of those deals that it happens. That's how we learn. Mark Workman: Yeah. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: fix things and we see those things and that's a lot of my experience, know, I'm seeing over the years where we just didn't see something coming and it's boom, then hey, let's try to fix it. We try this, we try that. You know, we're doing the best that we can from our guys in the office, you know, like myself, technical sales guys trying to diagnose everything possible as quickly as possible from he might be on the road going to another rig or he might be in the office then trying to run to the rig to you to help you out, you know. Mark Workman: Yeah. Tommy Rivas: It just depends on the situation. And yeah, you have a lot of things going on in your head and try not to say the wrong thing, you know, cause everybody's looking at you and they're like, ⁓ what's your answer? And your answer may not be the best answer at the moment. And you're just trying to think it through. And then they'll sit down and like, no, that was a terrible answer. What were you thinking? I'm like, Whoa, hang on. So it's tough. It's tough. But Mark Workman: ⁓ it's so tough. And you can't and a any organization too that is leading by consensus, you know, you I I'm gonna reach out for help for sure, you know, if I don't understand something. And I have one guy that I call now routinely, like, you know, I if I don't totally get what they're asking me to get for ⁓ or you know what spec or whatever I need to find. Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. Mark Workman: 'Cause I'm a supplier, so I'm on the supply side in terms of products and that kind of thing, and you need to get it right. But my point was ⁓ that ⁓ now I forget what I was gonna say. It's so funny. But ⁓ it it's okay. But it it it anyway, it it's just so interesting the challenges you must face and the pressures that that are there for real, you know, and and I don't necessarily have to face those things right in the crisis. I usually have a week or two weeks to kind of figure out what they need, you know, and get it to ⁓ So it's ⁓ you know, it Tommy Rivas: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing going kind of tying this into you is, know, if we don't have a product and we're needing it out here, we're making phone calls and like, Hey, do you have this available? Hey, do you have this available? And there's times we've called you like, Hey, do you have a truckload of this? Cause we just went through this. Mark Workman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're we're that way. We're trucked only. We don't do small stuff like Agri Impress or any of those guys. We try to stay to the wholesale side. ⁓ you know, our and and and what we're doing is and again Justin knows this 'cause he even calls and asks sometimes 'cause he has to double check, but like w w and again it hurts us. The what I'm getting ready to say hurts us. We're it doesn't help us because you know what the operators are doing and what the pricing is doing and the pressure on you guys to push down and down and down the cost and and I'm absolutely holding the line on quality and you're gonna pay more for that. So I I stick to what I'm doing. I'm not I've developed a mode. I've had the pressures to move to tech grades, to move down to from ⁓ 92% to 95% purity pac L or Pac R. It's all all my stuff's that way. My Xanthan's 20 plus at our, you know, it's not 13 and with a shelf, you know, it's at one month till its shelf life is over. A lot of that's out there, you know, or Tommy Rivas: Yeah. Mark Workman: Or they're or it's a product of Columbia, you know, they've re-bagged it, you know, and the everyone's a criminal. No one's paying anti-dumping, no one's paying their duty, they're shipping it all over the world, repackaging. You know all this story. And and again, I'm competing with the illegalities, all those kind of things. And we've decided as a group, me and all of us that are involved and invested in all this, is that we are not moving off of quality and and we might have fewer sales, but we have no headaches. Tommy Rivas: Right? Yes sir, absolutely. Mark Workman: And the people that actually commit to that idea absolutely love it. I know they do. Tommy Rivas: there is a lot of benefit to that. mean, superior products at the end of the day will go a long ways. And it's tough to sell sometimes because everybody, like you said, is driving that cost down. But I'm like, I mean, from anything that you want out there, if you have a cut of a product, I mean, it's not gonna perform as well. And then they're gonna ask, why isn't it performing as well? Like, well, you told us to go down on price. Mark Workman: Well we well the gu the guy that sold it to you cut it with starch. You know ⁓ i it's it's terrible. Like I re bagged some stuff during covet for ⁓ you mentioned them on the show already, and I love this company. They're very good friends and ⁓ they Tommy Rivas: Exactly, you know the game, you know the game. Mark Workman: are loyal as heck, but you know, we were shipping ⁓ a they said send every load of Xanthan you can at all times. Never quit. Just keep sending it during COVID. And it was you know, so they were hot on it and then they were buying Xanthan other places 'cause they needed it 'cause the during COVID, Long Beach is a disaster. There's three hundred boats off on the shore. If you didn't have the shot you couldn't get in the port. The drivers were like giving the middle finger to the gate guy and you know, I mean I I mean you have no idea. See those Tommy Rivas: Right. Yep. Right? Hot mess. Mark Workman: Those were my days, yeah, where I'm like and Justin's saying, where's our stuff? Well, it's you know, there's like 22 containers out at the port and we can't get a driver on there, you know. You know, it was really it was very challenging, you know, and and again still fun though. I have to say that. I'm always say I still like it. But ⁓ you know it but it's something that we've kind of just stuck to as a model, and we're just not gonna move off it. And we would rather have fewer sales that and do well than ⁓ try to get. Tommy Rivas: That's right. Mark Workman: all like I said earlier, I said I don't want all the business, I want all the good business. And the good business to me is people that really kind of want to do it right. You know, ⁓ I I hear that too from customers. Like for me I I hear them talking and I hear they want to do it right. And then when I s some of my initial calls with a brand new guy calling to maybe buy product from me, I can tell you right now he's cutting corners and trying to do everything he can to put every penny in his pocket. You know, he he don't even care about my existence, you know. Is that make sense? You know, and it it's such an interesting industry and and and again, I I've kind of Tommy Rivas: Right. Yes, exactly does. Mark Workman: I have a philosophy that I operate by. I'm talking too much. I should let you talk, but but my po ⁓ my one my one thing is I I really have this attitude of being very kindly difficult. It sounds crazy, but I'm very kind and I just say, you know, because they always want you to they try to always beat you down, beat you down, beat you down. And I'll move a little bit, especially for Justin. Like he I've ha he's had some challenges. I know he's bidding things, and I've moved a little bit for him. Tommy Rivas: No, you're good, you're great. Mark Workman: But but for a lot of guys I don't and I'm just really kind about it. I'm you know, hey, I appreciate it. I know you're trying to do your best, but you know, we've got to survive too, and and I hope you can I hope you can appreciate that, you know. And I always call it being kindly difficult. You know, I don't want to argue, I don't want to cause conflict, and ultimately I want those people to come back around, you know, and they always will if you treat ⁓ with respect. Always. Even even though you just told them no. You know Yeah. Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. In the kindest way. Mark Workman: And I and I know that sounds crazy, but ⁓ you know, I I I I I've seen people just bluster and you know, they they try to whatever. I'm like, you can't browbeat anyone into anything. Just just say say hey, it doesn't work for you and I and I understand that and hey, we'll maybe catch you on the next one, you know? And I I just really try to be really kindy kindly difficult. And it's a it's kind of Tommy Rivas: Right. I'm like difficult. I like it. I like it. Mark Workman: It's it's kind of a philosophy that's worked well for me, to be honest with you. In in the sense of it's just you're eliminated the fights or arguments over different things. And I just, you know, anyway, it sounds dumb, but I think it's an important thing to have ⁓ when you're com when you're communicating with people. So it's it's helpful. So ⁓ one of the questions here I have is And I I think about this is because I know a little bit about ⁓ in terms of the again, a thirty thousand foot view. One of the questions here is is as wells continue to get longer and more technically demanding, where do you see drilling fluids, drilling fluid engineering evolving over the next five, 10 years? What what is the innovations coming? What are the things do you see anything that is gonna absolutely, you know? I have a customer that is developing a new something new for Halliburton. and they're claiming it's gonna change the world and ⁓ you're they're and and again it might totally be true what I but I don't I know there's people working on new and innovative things all the time. What do you see in your own world with dynamic what maybe some changes you guys are bringing or some innovation you're bringing. Tommy Rivas: You know, it's hard to, I guess in a way it's hard to change mud, right? You know, it's product. ⁓ But you know, with technologies, like I mentioned earlier, the mud analyzer, that's what Payson, great company and they... Mark Workman: Right. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: I think they have the new way of what we're wanting to see. It's just getting people to, guess not people, just mud engineers, know, don't be scared of this stuff guys. You know, it's not a tattletale system. You're doing everything right. It's going to work fine. And it's going to help you in the long run where, know, I know some guys fear it because they're like, ⁓ it's going to take my job. It can't make the decisions that you make, you know? So with our side right now, I would say, ⁓ Mark Workman: No, yeah. Tommy Rivas: that technology itself as to drollin fluids, but you know, products may be coming up with a few newer systems. know NeoFlow is becoming a big thing up north, especially in your area. We hadn't seen it in the Permian Basin yet, but ⁓ I imagine it'll be coming down here and we'll end up having to figure that one out and seeing what can and cannot work and what we're seeing differently because ⁓ You go from a diesel based oil based system to a mineral oil and this neo flow I don't know too much about, but yeah, I've heard some things. You might see different. different treatments to your fluid so that may change good or bad to ⁓ the system. So it's just one of those ills we'll have to see as it comes along. I know there's guys up north that probably have some good experience right now with that and they're just getting after it and no problems. And maybe it's the way to go for right now as to getting things. at a lower cost. It's kind of what we always move on, right? Is cost. mean, right now we're doing water and lubricant. I mean, and... Mark Workman: Right. Yeah. And I'm I'm doing the exact opposite of that. I'm not you know, I mean I ⁓ it's so funny. You know, one of my i the quote that I was gonna do from C.S. Lewis is the the ⁓ the the as the herd runs for the cliff, the man running in the opposite direction is thought to be insane. You know, and and Tommy Rivas: Yes sir. Mark Workman: And I don't I can tell you right now, that's how I make decisions. If I see the herd all chasing one thing, somehow I know that's been a fad chasing thing, or somehow that's I I and I always look over my shoulder, what's behind me that's maybe the best direction to go? And it sounds crazy, but I swear to you the herd is not a good indicator of where we should go. It tip it is not, whether you believe it or not. So it it you know, it so you really need to be thinking. Tommy Rivas: That's right. Yes, sir. I'm Mark Workman: And that's that's it goes back to the earlier part of reading books, read about read white papers, read research, read technologies, read and always be learning. And I think you have this in you, or you wouldn't be you're at. But a lot of people just give up and get stuck. I I literally think you're functionally dumb if you're not reading, if you're not studying, if you're not learning new things, creating new things. You're functionally dumb and you're stuck. You can't go forward, in my opinion. So it you know Tommy Rivas: I mean, yeah, absolutely. Knowledge is power, right? So you got to be able to get that knowledge to help you move forward. And you're absolutely right. I mean, and there's no dumb question. mean, that's one thing I tell all my guys. I'm like, I don't care how long you've been doing this. I have questions myself. I've been doing this for 15 years, going on 16. You know, I've been in this for a minute. And at the same time, I was like, I have dumb questions. Mark Workman: Right. No. Wow. Yeah. Tommy Rivas: And it's one of those, and people will look at me like, really, Tommy? That's what you asked? like, yeah, I just can't remember. Maybe I just slipped my memory. I don't know. You know, we got a lot of things going on in our lives and in our head too, especially ⁓ with guys out in the field, making sure we're doing everything right. But, you know, there's never a dumb question. And I try to take that out to the field as well, to my guys, and I tell my guys in the field, hey, that dare can or that... ⁓ Mark Workman: No. Tommy Rivas: lead Tong Han, whatever he may be, floor hand, lead floor hand, you know, I'm going, you're showing some age right there, lead Tong Han. They don't have those anymore, but you know, those guys out there, they want to learn. I've had a couple of good Derek hands that became mud engineers and man, they're phenomenal because they understand what we're trying to do. And that's kind of all those deals. mean, there's guys that become Mark Workman: Right. No. Right. Tommy Rivas: straight into drilling fluids and learn very well and adapt. But there's guys that, you know, had to go through the system of getting on a rig, working, you know, from the bottom on up and then, hey, I wasn't quite ready to be a driller. So I wanted to be something else and... Yeah, absolutely. Mark Workman: kind of the best guys, you know, I hate to say it the they know the process from beginning to end a little bit, not all of it, but they, you know, the financial part and the, you know, the investor part, all those things, those are huge parts in the background too, that no one really talks about, but because where's the money coming from, right? You know. But you know, it and again talking more about innovation and again we're gonna get close to wrapping up and and ⁓ again, but ⁓ this is something I'm fascinated by because I really feel like as I read, you know, you know, the you look at the politics of the Iran war Tommy Rivas: Go. Yes, That's right. Mark Workman: We go down to Venezuela and you know, ⁓ you know, we're bragging about we got all this oil. Well, you can't even pump the stuff, you know. They're gonna add 500,000 barrels total, maybe, because this stuff's like you can cut it, I think. You know, am I wrong? I think there's a it's so thick, right? It's so visc the viscosity is like whatever. So and and and then when they brag about that, I hear politicians talk and in and and I I just want to cringe sometimes because they just don't understand and they're saying things. Tommy Rivas: Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah. Mark Workman: things and you know this week it's the the gas stations are gouging, you know, and and and I'm just like, ⁓ my gosh, you know, Exxon is three percent of the total world oral market. And you're ripping on Exxon about gas prices, you know. ⁓ d you know I mean it's so silly. And you know it's political, right? But at the same time at the same time when I look at all these factors that we deal with politically, Tommy Rivas: Right. Absolutely. Mark Workman: And then I realized in the oil field what's happening too is two things are happening. I ⁓ that the pressures on from the outside that of people that just don't understand industry, and I think they're really impacting investment and and whatever the Green New Deal was, you know, during the Biden years and all those monies left us and went all over this place, and that's failing, you know, you know, all the challenges we deal with. But one of the other challenges I think we're dealing with is over the last Tommy Rivas: Yep. Mark Workman: Whatever the last forty, fifty years is as oil's gotten more efficient. We just talked about how we're down to sixteen days. The efficiencies, the technology, the the wealth of knowledge. We have fewer people out there anymore. The the number of employees have dropped from, I want to say it's 250,000 in 2015 down to like 130, 140 is all there, you know, it's it's in half, you know, essentially. You know, so the number of people are gone, all those kind of things. And but at the same time. Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. Mark Workman: When you look at our oil reserves, what we've done over the last 40, 50 years is we've gotten all the low-hanging fruit. We've got the maybe the easiest stuff right now, you know, and and what we're now moving into is is that's kind of going away. And there's plenty of oil, everybody. Don't flip out. There's oil, there's oil coming out our ears, just so you know. So stop. thinking I'm saying we need to conserve and shut off our energy. What I'm saying is, because I'll get comments, trust me. What the the but what my point is is the low-hanging fruit that was maybe the easiest to get is kind of now being set aside where we're gonna have to be more more ingenuity, more creativity to get to the stuff that's more unconventional, more difficult, and that kind of thing. And I think that's a trend that is going to drive this innovation thing, in my view. Tommy Rivas: Yes sir. Yes, no, I absolutely agree with you. And like I mentioned, you know, we're, we hadn't heard of U-turn wheels until maybe a couple of years ago. And that's innovation, right? We're trying something different. We're trying to figure out, can we get more out of a formation if we were to do this, you know, or, Mark Workman: Right. Tommy Rivas: What are those efficiencies? And it takes about a year to see all this stuff too. So we don't just see it after we drill it, you know, there's the whole process behind it too. And so with those things, I think we are going to get, I'd say starting doing longer laterals and the U-turns are definitely going to become a thing. And that's, it's going to be a big deal. mean, Mark Workman: Yeah. Right. Tommy Rivas: The longest lateral that we have with an operator is a four mile lateral. And that's pretty tough. mean, in trying to keep, and this is just water and loop, you know, like you can't even say it's a system because it's not, it's just water and loop. And we've been able to do that pretty consistently now. And those things do matter at the end of the day. And we're pushing those four mile laterals and it's just like, man, there's a lot of torque, you know, different size. Mark Workman: Well. Yeah. Cheers. No. Tommy Rivas: There's a lot of aspects of it that we see and we're like, man, can we do something different? We're always trying to change something to make it better. Mark Workman: Yeah, and I guess my thing is, you know, necessity is the mother and event of invention. ⁓ that's an mother of invention, excuse my language. But I I actually think there's gonna be a necessity for innovation, a necessity for people to get creative because I think that that we're gonna have we're gonna be a little more challenged more than maybe we have been in the past in terms of getting this energy ⁓ out of the ground and you know, applying it to our economy and the world. You know, I don't know. I I could be wrong. I mean and it's probably somewhat smarter than me, but that's the way I see it. I think the low hanging fruits kinda set aside, ⁓ you know, and ⁓ Tommy Rivas: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Both me and you, there's guys smarter than us. Mark Workman: ⁓ my gosh. It's ⁓ I I I I I I when I joke about that I start sweating, I'm not exaggerating. Like sometimes, you know, I'll be at a conference and I'm sitting next to a guy and he and I'm just staring at the table. I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, this guy, is this Einstein? What's the you know? You know, and and I and I f and I then I feel inadequate, you know, I d not bringing it back to me, but I'll feel like Tommy Rivas: get it, ⁓ Mark Workman: Man, should I even be doing this? You know what I mean? That's that makes sen You know, I mean, sometimes I can feel that way, like, man, ⁓ man. But you know Tommy Rivas: Hahaha! Absolutely. And that's okay. It's okay to be that guy in the room sometimes. It's just the best thing is to listen, you know? Sometimes we just got to listen and we'll figure things out, you know? I'm not a huge talker at all times, you know? If I'm your friend, you'd be like, oh Tommy, you talk a lot now. I'm like, yeah, I'm a pretty happy guy. Mark Workman: Y yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, you seem like a just a gem of a person, I can tell. And and and again, as we wrap up the show, I you know, ⁓ again, I'm not trying to pitch for ⁓ you know, Dynamic or even you or anybody, but ⁓ ultimately ⁓ companies like Dynamic are absolutely probably unheard of in wrong you would ask anybody in the country, no one would know who they are. they just kind of fly under the radar in this industry in terms of terms of the world, but not in the industry, they're well known. But but but I still say that What the efforts you're doing and what they're doing and what other companies just like you guys are doing are absolutely critical to my grandkids' future. And I see it that way. And I I care and your kids as well. You know, ⁓ that you in many ways ⁓ we just we just take for granted we think we have a job, and I don't think it's a job. I actually think it's a I wouldn't say calling, but it's just really important for us to do a good job ⁓ for for our future generation. And really we're setting we're setting the foundation for some of the future stuff that will we'll be dead. I'll be dead and gone, you know. but I do believe it's and and and and again, ⁓ you're overstating at workman. You're talking, it's crazy. You don't talk that way, you know. It's just money, it's just economy, it's just and I actually don't, you know, all those parts are in there. Trust me. I I like to make a living, pay my bills, take care of my family. Tommy Rivas: Absolutely. Yes sir, I agree with you 100%. Mark Workman: I ⁓ all that's part of what I'm doing. It's one hundred percent important. But at the same time, ⁓ I don't do anything unless I feel strongly about it. And that's really been a driver for me. And I think what you're doing and what Dynamic does in terms of out there in West Texas and Justin's leadership, you know, we've kind of joked about Justin a little bit that you know, ⁓ but but that guy is as trustworthy as they come, you know, and and ⁓ and I just think that drives me, you know. Tommy Rivas: Yeah. Mark Workman: That kind of stuff. So I I I I wanna promote what you're doing and I'm appreciate you coming on as a guest. I'm very grateful. Tommy Rivas: No, thank you for having me. I really do appreciate it. And it might be the worst show you have. I don't know, but I'm glad to be here. Mark Workman: No, it no, it won't be the worst show. The worst show is one I did with my wife and we got in a fight. Tommy Rivas: Okay, I might be above that one just there ⁓ Mark Workman: I shouldn't say that online. She might listen to this, but but no, I'm just teasing. We didn't get a fight. It was just it it's just it's just interesting. And ⁓ no, I I love this and I love these conversations and I hope we can do it again. I hope it you're okay with that if I ask you. We we Tommy Rivas: Absolutely, no, this has been fun. And we just got to sit down and really just talk about what's going on, things. ⁓ And this is just one of those I think is great for everybody to see. Like I'm vulnerable at this point to everybody out there. So it is what it is. We're gonna just keep talking and figure out what the next step is, because we don't know what it is. Mark Workman: One hundred percent. No, and and again, th i it and you know this. The we could do a show every day for the rest of our lives and never touch the same subject. It's cr it's crazy how much there is to learn. Tommy Rivas: That's right. Mark Workman: And what you know and what we could talk about. And it and again, this is an introductory show, ⁓ you know, we're talking a little bit of philosophy and different things of how we operate and you know, importance of service and all those kind of things. But you know, these are important topics. So and again, we could never duplicate ⁓ again if we did a show every day the rest of our lives. ⁓ my gosh. It's crazy. Well, hey, thanks for coming and I sure appreciate Tommy. It's just just a fun, fun Tommy Rivas: Right. Yeah, there's a lot. Mark Workman: Conversation. I can't even tell you how much I loved it. So thanks for coming. Everybody, please like and subscribe. It helps the show. I know I'm repetitive, but you know, I need this to grow in the right way. I'm not looking for clicks. ⁓ I'm not even looking for views. I'm looking for people that want this message. And if I have 500 subscribers, that is wonderful. I have a thousand, that's wonderful. Then that means there's a thousand people that are interested in this content. And ⁓ again, it helps support the show more than you really. So thanks for that and everyone have a great fourth and go blow something up. See ya buddy. Bye. Tommy Rivas: There you go. All right, bye bye.