Latest / Starkey Sound Bites: Hearing Aids, Tinnitus, and Hearing Healthcare / Lessons in Leadership feat. Dr. Jessica Dimmick

Transcript

Lessons in Leadership feat. Dr. Jessica Dimmick · Starkey Sound Bites: Hearing Aids, Tinnitus, and Hearing Healthcare

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Starkey Soundbites.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dave Fabry, Starkey's chief innovation officer.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: And today our guest is a doctor of audiology well known to me and to the profession.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: First and foremost, uh Dr.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Jessica Dimmick has grown her practice across multiple states.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: She hails originally from Augusta, Illinois, but now her practice, the uh hearing doctors of the heartland, is found with offices in Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh look forward to chatting a little bit about that and this remarkable growth trajectory that she's had in over the past decade.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also we want to talk about a number of other things.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she serves as an ambassador for the um Starkey uh uh listen carefully ambassador.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And also uh the area that we really want to reflect upon is her engagement in the professional and political process uh as it relates to the discipline of audiology and to small business um in Iowa, where she resides now in Des Moines.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so, Jesse, uh thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to have you on Soundbites.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for having me, Dave.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk a little bit about your background first.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned, you grew up in Illinois.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, your uh your education for your AUD degree was in uh at Kansas.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh now you've been in a private practice that you founded a little over a decade ago.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what first was the catalyst or the interest in choosing audiology as your profession?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: That you were going to spend so much time developing this in the midst of everything else going on in your life?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was interested in audiology primarily because I had a best friend growing up who wore hearing aids.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh she got to go to speech therapy with Mrs.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Lawton.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, as a kid, I thought she was so privileged and so special to get to go and have those interactions.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was thinking about how I wanted to spend my career, I wanted to make people feel like Mrs.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Lawton made everyone feel when she would come to a class and pick up a kid for uh speech therapy in the school system.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really, like most audiologists thought speech bethera or speech therapy was easy for you to say.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know, right?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I thought speech therapy was um a direction that I wanted to go.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And as I was in the undergraduate program, I was really taken by audiology and I loved the certainty with which the patients seeking treatment for their hearing loss.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: I loved that they had a certain outcome and that it involved technology, and I love the fact that technology was changing.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Speech therapy to me seemed, you know, a little bit less straightforward, um pediatric in nature.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoyed working with adults more.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what that's what took me that direction.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I took kind of a gap year and worked with um adults that had uh different degrees of developmental disabilities.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I learned a lot from that experience as well on the individuals that I really wanted to make a difference with.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Was that gap year during your undergraduate education or after you completed your undergrad degree before you started graduate school?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was before graduate school.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I was still really hanging on to um wanting to get into a master's degree program for speech.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so even after you finished your bachelor's degree, you were still on the fence, whether speech language pathology or audiology was your path.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And part of me was very intimidated by the process of getting a doctorate degree.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: It seemed, it seemed um like a very big step for a little girl from Augusta, Illinois, uh, if I'm being completely honest.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was beyond what I would be able to achieve.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I still remember getting that acceptance letter because I had been denied from the master's degree program.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really just couldn't believe it.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I thought maybe it wasn't meant for me.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was the universe pointing me in the right direction.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I believe it completely.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I would have never been brave enough had I not been given that little bit of a push.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought, why not?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's what I wanted to do.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought it seemed like a beautiful career path.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very, I feel very fortunate.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's worked out pretty well for you so far, and you're really still just getting started.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when, you know, and we really we represent different generations.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in a, you know, relatively small town.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was first in my family to go to college.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly, I had aspirations to um, you know, go to college and then go to graduate school.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my family wondered, would I ever stop going to school?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was first in my family to go to school, and then we're like, when are you gonna get a real job?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I got my master's degree because when I was growing up professionally, the master's degree was the first professional degree.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting that your trepidation was in part that that that doctoral degree and what that signified, and maybe the the the the whether, and I can understand the insecurity over it because I had that feeling after I got my master's degree, then thinking I wanted to go on and get the PhD because the AUD didn't exist back in the day in the previous millennium when I was uh contemplating becoming an audiologist.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew that I wanted to uh try to uh chase my dream in that respect.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it but it's interesting that that it that was a barrier thinking about the doctoral degree.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you were of that, you know, the the the first generation where you weren't looking at achieving the doctorate degree after a master's degree.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the previous millennium, people could um accelerate that or do a part-time program um to get their doctorate, but you started out straight on splitting from speech language pathology and then going under the doctorate.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So congratulations for that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, when we when we look at that, you know, the area, what what was the decision that you made when you decided then uh not only to finish with your AUD, but then open up a private practice?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: That had to be similarly uh a bit foreboding to think about uh opening up a business rather than joining a practice or joining, and I know you you did work other places uh prior to making that decision, but how hard was that to make that decision?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was honestly quite excruciating.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um I had the benefit of spending my fourth year in a practice in Kansas, and I had the opportunity to really learn the business side.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: I come from I come from uh grocery store owners and restaurant owners from multiple generations of the business owners, so that helped.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: You had that as a model.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: I did, and I grew up in my mom and dad's grocery store, small town, and I grew up um, you know, having having in-person interactions with about the same four or five hundred people every day.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I I worked seven days a week until I left for graduate school.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I worked for my mom and dad.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: I worked for uh the university, kind of in a secretarial type position.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I just knew work, work, work, work.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And when I when I completed the AUD, which was the hardest thing I'd ever done, it it's a whole other game.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's nothing like undergrad.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: I had my eyes open to so many clinical experiences that was a tremendous benefit in Kansas, um, the University of Kansas.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: We had clocked way more hours than we ever needed to graduate.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had this full experience from, I mean, every kind of audiology you could possibly practice.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I knew that in that niche, I really wanted to be in private practice.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I was able to align myself with a clinic that served um primarily a rural population, but you know, centered in a uh medium-sized town.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: And when I set out to get my first job then, I decided I was going to travel a little bit.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my husband uh was deployed at the time.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: He was in Afghanistan.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: We were engaged, and so I had this little narrow window where I thought maybe I would try to live in a different place and kind of see how that fits.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we moved around a little bit.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was in North Carolina, I was in Montana, um, and I came back towards Iowa again, thinking, you know, I I know I want to be closer to home.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know where um, I know where my heart belongs.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that was definitely in the Midwest.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was looking for a job, um, and I I wasn't convinced yet that I was ready to start a private practice.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was again one of those dreams, kind of like the AUD, like, wow, boy, I really want to do that, but it seems like there's so many obstacles in the way.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it came again to a point where I think the universe just had to force me into that direction where I just couldn't find a job where best practices and audiology was um the the goal.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: It seemed a lot like retail, um, it seemed a lot like uh ENT office type work, and it just wasn't what I wanted.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really was left in a position where I had to start my own practice.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember, I remember the little voice in my head saying, whatever it is, it'll be okay.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, just don't put all of your eggs in one basket.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I got started.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was a little bit of an unusual um type of a clinic start because I I worked with a diagnostic contract first with VA services.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, having come from being a military wife, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was very important to me to acknowledge the the um opportunity to treat veterans, which is available for uh community providers.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just answered a call one day and uh it was somebody asking if I would be interested in seeing veterans.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, absolutely, of course.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: How can I help?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they honestly paused for a minute and said, Oh my gosh, we've never actually had somebody say yes before.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're not really sure what to do.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so it seems crazy, but I just kept thinking, oh, if I just get, you know, this many, this many um appointments on my books for the week, I'll be able to keep my doors open.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a plan for putting uh oh uh an elliptical machine in the back because I thought, man, I'm never gonna be busy enough.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm just gonna have so much free time.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still looking for that free time.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um haven't got the elliptical yet.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have the elliptical yet?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's at home.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's I mean, that's where everybody's elliptical machine is probably hanging clothes on it, probably.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like mine.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so it never it never happened.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: It never it never happened that I was just in a lull.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, first it was VA and then then hearing aids, and then it grew and grew.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, because now that first practice was in Iowa, correct?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Anky, Iowa.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and now hearing doctors of the heartland you are in, as I mentioned, in Illinois, and and I believe you have one office in Missouri right now.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: But how many offices in total um have you grown to?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's 11 offices total.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so you know, with um the the geography of it, if you were to really look at a map, you know, we talked before I went illinois.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I did, yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: I got the Mississippi River.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a four-hour stretch in between my Iowa offices and my Illinois offices.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: So most would say, you know, what gives?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I wanted I wanted the people that I grew up with to have the best care possible too.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And just because I'm in Iowa does not mean that, you know, I I couldn't make that reach, which has come at, you know, a significant amount of sacrifice, I would say.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but as soon as I had an opportunity there, I jumped on it first, carrying my audiometer back and forth, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I'd go home, somebody needed a test.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was testing people, you know, wherever I could.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was checking people, um, checking their hearing aids.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: People would uh come and knock on the door um at our at our house there and say, can you help me?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course I could.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's kind of a funny thing.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, people pull their tractor up to the local grocery store.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it's like.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to be, you know, the hearing lady there too, and uh decided to formalize it and found a couple of like-minded audiologists like me who wanted to be there, who wanted to impact that that um oh, that type of a community.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there we are providing best practice service and care to patients who would otherwise um be left behind because it's um it's not a place that that you know boasts a lot of um economic privileges for people to come in and um you know, otherwise be interested, I would say.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where my heart is.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I go and and work a day in clinic there, if I see 10 patients in a day, I have a first degree relationship with them.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at least three or four people.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that part.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and how many, you say like-minded practitioners, how many practitioners do you have as part of the hearing doctors of the heartland?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh myself plus five.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then are with 11 offices, then are all of them full-time or are some of them part-time?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or how does it how does that work?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and what are the challenges when you have um 11 offices with five um uh AUD audiologists?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you employ uh and it partners with some dispensers within that group too, but how do you coordinate all of that to keep all of those offices going?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, myself plus uh three audiologists and two hearing instrument specialists, uh, we all see patients.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: We do spend a considerable amount of time on the road, yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Which um is unfortunate in the regard that time spent on the road is time we can't spend with patients.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: However, just the geography in the Midwest, and it's a challenge in a lot of places, unless you're in, you know, Philadelphia or New York City or you know, a pretty big metropolitan area, people have to drive, you know.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, around here, it's not uncommon for people to drive up to an hour for care.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And while most of our patients are in the um, you know, senior, senior uh demographic, yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're we're trying to reach them.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of having 10 patients drive to us in a day, at times it's necessary for us to go to where um to where the patients are.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we do have um some ENT support in uh rural rural clinics.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: So we do travel and and do that type of work again, trying to meet patients where they are.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you incorporate telehealth in the practice, given that that four hours between the, you know, I did I did pull up Google Maps and looked at the location of the different offices, and there's a lot of geography between your farthest, far two farthest practices.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you incorporate telehealth?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And does that fit into your idea of best practice, which you've mentioned a few times?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: It does fit in.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that we have used telehealth is um in some regards, it's to make efficiencies in patient care, where um, for example, we use um some assistance through Starkey's telehear department, where you know, if um if I am on the road to one of our distant clinics and we have a patient with um a pretty minor need, they can come in and and be seen through that telehealth.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a synchronous and it allows audio and visual.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can use it for counseling as well as reprogramming.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that medium is going to only grow.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: There are fewer audiologists every day.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there aren't enough of us uh treating patients, and our patient demographic is growing.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, more and more boomers like myself are becoming candidates every day, and we're gonna continue to do so.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get to that topic a little bit about accessibility, uh, affordability, and really that access to a hearing care professional.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I I agree, you know, and I think you know, you mentioned best practice.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: What other elements of best practice when when you when you alluded that you really wanted those um potential patients in rural communities to receive the same care that they would expect to receive were they at a tertiary medical uh care or in an urban environment?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean by best practice?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Best practice to me is ensuring that the patient has the proper technology, but also the proper diagnostics to make sure that, first of all, are they being tested accurately?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um making sure that their ears are free from wax before testing them.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um if we're not checking and verifying and removing, you know, significant accumulations of wax before uh performing even the basic audiogram, you know, how can we be sure of our results?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um second, we would uh I would include uh communication needs assessment with that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we do use tools like verification of speech understanding.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: So with a patient who has an identified hearing loss, um, we want to check to see how they do with and without hearing aids.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, with a familiar voice.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So uh reading off a word list and making sure that you know we can see a good uh prognosis in using hearing aids.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next step, of course, would be in selecting the proper hearing aids and making it available at all price points.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So not just, you know, pushing premium technology, even though we know it's the best, having hearing aids is going to be better than no hearing aids.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: We do tend to fit more premium devices, but um, you know, getting them into something, yeah, something that's attainable is is really of the utmost importance.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then also um real air verification measures and um a plan.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: I can't emphasize that enough.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: A plan for having them come back, not just a hey, call us if you need anything, but really an intentional method of having them scheduled for a follow-up, at least within a couple of weeks.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like to call it graduation when they're finished with their fitting, uh, their fitting time, you know, and we're we're done working together.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: We've solved the goals that they've set out to achieve with better hearing, and then having them come in with reminders for the maintenance.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um that is critical because those hearing aids are tiny computers and they're in a 98-degree humid environment all the time.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got to have them in to have them cleaned and maintained.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that helps preserve that uh investment.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And well, it really does sound like it's really patient-focused, I would say patient-driven care with the requirement and expectation that you're gonna engage with them using virtual and and face-to-face care, but scheduled, not just ad hoc saying, Oh, if you need us, you're really you're really with them on this every stage of their journey.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that that that defines best practice as much as the technology and tools is the engagement with the professional.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think for those people you mentioned, and I think I saw on your website that you now have um uh provided care for over 6,000 veterans uh as a component of all of those different offices.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: For those who haven't worked with uh veterans and Government services in that capacity from a private practice.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: They may not even know, as you as you alluded, they may not even know that this is possible.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: But are there any tips or things that you've learned from experience about working with this population that you could share with uh listeners of the podcast?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have had a lot of private practice owners approach me about how to get involved with VA care.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And really that whole segment of the population for us with VA care, we have some that are the treatment opportunities where they're coming to us through the community care network for hearing aids.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: But the vast majority of the veterans that we've served, they need to be seen in an evaluation for compensation and pension purposes to ever even gain access to the VA.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So a huge holdback for a lot of veterans is just having that evaluation.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And when they have that evaluation, then they're able to get into the VA for care.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: And years ago, the Veterans Benefits Administration and the Veterans Health Administration split.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so the vast majority of what I've done is supporting the Veterans Benefits Administration, where I am performing a complete diagnostic battery of tests and then taking off for a moment my treatment cap and putting on the um the assessment cap for how their um the causation of their hearing loss kind of comes together in a plan for them to get into the VA.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where the the the bulk of the work was was happening and um that's how we make a difference.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and people can reach out to you, I assume, if they're interested in providing a similar role.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I uh please pass along uh our gratitude to your husband for his service, and then also that in a way helped serve as a catalyst from from uh uh you know the knowledge of what soldiers are exposed to in terms of uh uh hearing loss and tinnitus, uh, and then you're working to treat the population.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that too, for helping pave the way for people who have um uh dedicated their life to service uh to the country, but also suffered some hearing loss or ringing in their ears as a result.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if we transition from this clinical need where you're working with government services, um you've also uh been very active with working with government officials in Iowa uh in particular, but on a national level too, with regards to policy and um uh and as it relates to an audiologist's scope of practice, as it relates to over-the-counter hearing aids.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we shared the opportunity back in July of last year uh when Senator Grassley, uh the uh senior and very senior uh Iowa senator uh who just was re-elected for the eighth time um in 2022, and he was up here.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it it was a pleasure working with you uh side by side to sort of express our concerns with given that uh Senator Grassley was one of the co-sponsors of the OTC bill, to also ensure that we weren't sacrificing quality of care and access to a professional by providing accessibility and affordability to the product.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, talk a little bit about how you got why you saw that that was important as a young professional.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and any tips again for maybe younger audiologists who are thinking about how I can get involved and and what they might do.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: So this goes back, this goes back a few years.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you and I had a conversation about it about 2017, 2018.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the year that I started my practice, I remember, I remember being on an evening walk, and my husband turned to me and said, Hey, did you see that thing about over-the-counter hearing aids?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, What?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: What are you talking about?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so we pulled up the article, and to my shock and horror, uh a senator in Iowa, uh, along with uh, of course, Elizabeth Warren, um, they had worked and and pushed through this OTC bill.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I had just started my practice, and let me tell you, I felt crushed.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, immediately I was crushed, and then I jumped into, you know, this will never work.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then I, I mean, I really spiraled, I really spiraled because I thought it's the end of the world, and I thought, you know, that's the end of audiology, it's the end of my career.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: People aren't gonna need us anymore, and people are gonna hurt themselves.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt so many feelings about it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the first thing I thought was, I have to do something about this.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started, um, I started into, you know, trying to find a way.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I never reached out, I never dreamed I would have to.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: I started to seek a way to reach out to Senator Grassley, and it wasn't, it wasn't as easy as I thought.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, I sent a message and I got a reply, and I sent another message and I got a reply.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a couple of phone calls with someone on his staff, and really, you know, I just couldn't quite break through.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I would try over over, you know, a few years to reach out, but it really just came to fruition.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Again, um, I had a conversation with Michael Scholl, of course.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Michael Scholl heads our, well, he's our chief compliance officer, and uh as well, he heads up the Listen Carefully program at Starkey during uh the OTC legislation and the ensuing um uh discussions that led to the the the FDA's final regulatory approval.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Michael, along with Jake Spano, uh were instrumental at communicating with professionals like yourself, providing materials and hopefully providing access that did help lead to that opportunity to bring you up here in the fall.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it did.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we we kind of revisited it, revisited it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And uh next thing we knew, we had our opportunity.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, in between that 2017 and 2022 span, I realized that maybe I I didn't get as far with Senator Grassley as I wanted to in the beginning, but it did not stop my desire to kind of push forward.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, it made me a little a little braver.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um we also came, I want to say, kind of came under attack in Iowa in a way where um the Americans for Prosperity um, it's a a group that lobbies for uh certain uh gosh topics of interest, I guess.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: They um they were working to dissolve the state licenger board for hearing instrument specialists completely.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And in Iowa, an audiologist holds an audiology license and also a hearing instrument license.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Instrument specialist license.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I thought, oh my gosh, this is this is insane.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: How could this ever happen?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I started to look around at who was doing something about it, and I realized nothing was happening.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I realized that we were in our profession quite disjointed from one another in Iowa to the extent that we we really uh it was our state license uh board for hearing instrument specialists.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I started sending messages and receiving messages, and we kind of got a small group together trying to work uh to get some help on this.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And we also contacted Michael Scholl at that time to get a little a little bit of um his experience.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that gave me even more courage.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so the next point that I looked at um after that kind of settled down, uh, the next point I looked at was the fact that in Iowa there is not a requirement for commercial health insurance companies to um cover hearing aids for children.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: So so and it's it's uh it's troubling to me.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, the shortage of care for veterans, the the implication that children with hearing loss are just kind of on their own, their parents are on their own to cover the cost of hearing aids.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um these are things that I'm very passionate about.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I worked towards another Senate bill to help try to push forward uh the requirement for health insurance companies to cover hearing aids for children.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so it has been an interesting journey for me.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I find myself going to the Capitol now.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, I find myself regularly reaching out to senators, state representatives.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think it's crucial that we always take an educational approach.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if there's anything that I learned from the visit with Senator Grassley, um, which he was he was wonderful in that incredible, yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: He was uh quite inspirational.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, and and he and I may be on different ends of the political spectrum, but uh one thing, if you'll remember the day that he was here, it had it had uh stormed during the night and the parking lot was rather wet.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And on our campus, we were going from the production building over to the RD building in the tech center.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed that he was wearing some pretty nice shoes and and was wearing you know a suit and a tie.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and I mentioned him as we were getting ready to walk over whether he was okay to to walk or if he wanted uh us to drive him over to the other building.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and then he he promptly chided me, you know, at 89 years of age, four days a week, he runs three miles a day.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so his energy alone was enough to uh to fill a room.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he he's uh you know, he's an amazing individual.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I I agree it was a very inspirational day.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: He was very receptive and really took an approach where he wanted to um uh listen and and hear about our concerns about uh, again, you know, the accessibility to a professional, particularly because Iowa does have vast stretches of rural areas as well as some major cities, and and ensuring that every citizen has the right to access a professional as well as technology.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was I was really uh inspired by his uh openness, his his energy on this topic.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but also from your perspective, I think, you know, what is reminds me of the quote by Lily Tomlin when someone people say, well, uh she said, uh, someone should do something.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but then I remembered I'm someone.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it really seems like you just you know took the bull by the horns and then were extremely persistent in your efforts to continue to try to uh make contact and uh and and undaunted, just persist with um uh trying to get your points across.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any other pointers or tips that you might have for how people can engage with their elected officials uh based upon your successes that you've had?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like such a uh an out of reach.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know what else to say.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: It I felt like he was on another planet, celebrity sort of status.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: But he's a human.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: That was that that to me, and the interaction with him for an hour and a half, I felt like I was with one of my patients.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was interested, he was curious, he wanted to know more, his heart was in the right place.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: While I don't agree with everything, it still opened my eyes to the fact that when we are reaching out to these um officials, they're humans.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh this is not an easy job to number one be elected.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, throwing your name in the ring for something like you know, holding public office, they are they do have it in their heart that they want to help.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: I believe that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And being persistent in reaching out in a respectful way, uh asking to be heard, inviting them to something that's you know of interest to them.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, that's my advice is to is to just keep just keep trying.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: They are human and give them a chance.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for sharing that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, with regards to the Listen Carefully Ambassador, of which you are one, and thank you for that partnership.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, we have done a Soundbites podcast with Michael Scholl and Jake Spano.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: For those who are interested in pursuing that, uh, I would encourage you to listen to that previous episode.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: But any other observations, insights, uh um, comments about your role uh and working really at the state level and the national level as a listen carefully ambassador.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think the benefits to the listen carefully um group is that we're a group.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's more of us, there's more of us working together.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: We now have um a formal name, we now have you know a reputation that we're building for the end goal of educating um everyone, whether it's government officials or um just the general public, other audiologists, hearing instrument specialists, all of the above.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're trying to approach um anything with an education, an educational approach, I should say, when you're trying to approach it from you know um the good of your heart, yeah.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if there's a place for that in politics, but um I think that's what has gained so much ground.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, there's more things that bring us together than drive us apart, yeah, especially when we're working towards a common cause, like um educating the public on better hearing, how they can achieve that, what to look for.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I like that we're all together working towards the same common goal.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think, you know, going back to Senator Grassley again for for that interaction was his willingness to engage in productive discourse about something that had a meaningful impact for his constituents.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, he needs the voters too, and he wants to know that he's acting in their best interests.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for, as I said, for participating in the Listen Carefully Ambassador program.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: We think it's making a meaningful impact on ensuring that the voice of the patient is heard with the benefit of the expertise uh in your role as a as an audiologist, knowing that as we looked at the emergence of the OTC channel, that it didn't compromise outcomes that we've seen and um expected with hearing health care.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I guess to that question, and we've talked a bit already on the role and the importance of the professional, but sometimes the anticipation of something, and you talked about even when you first when your husband first made you aware of this OTC, then five years later, now it's a reality.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how so far, and I know it's still early days, but how has it been different than what you expected it was going to be?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what changes have you made as a result of that reality rather than the awfulization, if you will, that moment when you first knew that this was on the table?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have to say that my initial fear uh when I found out about the OTC bill, my initial fear was that patients were going to be harmed, that the general public was going to experience harm from, you know, at that time we didn't know what this was going to be.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: We really didn't.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was really concerned about um the safety component.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And as that has gone through multiple levels, and you know, with the FDA finally um coming through with you know the rules and regulations, um now my mindset has been turned to, well, where's the opportunity?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: The opportunity is in the fact that there are people that have a mild to moderate hearing loss that you know could benefit from a product as long as it's safely executed.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, they they could benefit from something like an over-the-counter device.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: However, I have not changed my model in any way.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, since 2017, my model is still best care, um, better hearing, better life.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not just about the hearing aid, it's about the professional, it's about having a proper diagnosis.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we have been an unbundled practice now for uh about three years, in that if a patient comes to us with an over-the-counter device, well, I mean, I can still do a hearing test with them, I can still remove wax from their ears, I can still perform real air verification, I can still um clean those devices, check those devices.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so whether a person is pulling up in an RV to buy hearing aids for the first time and real true hearing aids and be on their way, or maybe they're bringing hearing aids into me that they've purchased elsewhere.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we just we see so many different things and we've become open to um all of it in an unbundled method to where, you know, if they if they want us to run a test on their their over-the-counter hearing aids, we could do it.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: We have a cost for that.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: We have a a code for that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so the transparency, um providing transparency in what it is that you're delivering to your patients, I think is is the most crucial way forward.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it builds the trust with uh patients.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: It does build the trustal patient, and and that's what's so vital really to establishing that long-term relationship for the patient in their hearing healthcare journey, wherever, wherever you meet them, and then if you can bring them in and accompany them by being that trusted advisor, and uh and then also establishing the value of service.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know we're the this conversation went so quickly, and I'm sorry that we're out of time, but uh Dr.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Jessica Dimmick, uh, I thank you for sharing your voice, your wisdom, and your insights with our Soundbites audience.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who listen to this podcast and enjoy it, we please ask you to rate it and um subscribe if uh if you wish so that you don't miss any future episodes of SoundBites.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you can also uh uh provide some feedback to us.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are you thinking about?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's on your mind?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: What questions do you have for our hearing experts and our hearing community?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh please send an email to soundbites at Starkey.com if you have uh suggestions for future topics or future guests that we might include on SoundBites.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I can't tell you how much I enjoyed our conversation today, and thank you for sharing your time with us.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's always a pleasure, Dave.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And uh for the audience, look forward to hearing and seeing you soon.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.