Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 34: Fred & Rose West

Transcript

Episode 34: Fred & Rose West · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

0:10
Before we begin today's case, we would like to provide a content warning.
0:16
This episode includes discussions of child abuse, child sexual abuse material, incest, the murder of children, and violence against adults.
0:28
If any of these topics may be distressing or triggering for you, please listen at your own discretion Hello, True Crime divas and dudes.
0:40
Sarah here.
0:41
Welcome back to your favorite true crime podcast, Deadly Divas.
0:45
And I'm Tina.
0:46
And if you're new here, welcome.
0:48
Every Friday we dive into a new true crime case for y'all.
0:52
And don't forget to follow us on TikTok and Facebook.
0:55
Please.
0:56
This week we are covering the case of Fred and Rose West, Britain's most notorious and despicable serial killers.
1:05
Sarah took a super deep dive into this one to bring us the whole story, and we are not leaving anything out, so get ready.
1:15
Okay, guys, let's get started.
1:17
We are going to look into their lives before they met each other first, and then cover the toxic relationship once these two demons met, and then their ultimate downfall.
1:31
So we are gonna start with Rose.
1:35
Rosemary Pauline Letts was born in 1953 in Devon, England to Daisy and Bill.
1:43
She was one of their seven children.
1:46
Her mother, Daisy, had been diagnosed with depression and was receiving electroconvulsive therapy both during and after her pregnancy with Rose.
1:57
During the pregnancy?
1:59
Exactly.
2:00
Jesus.
2:01
So for anyone not sure what that is, back then it was a therapy used to supposedly cure mental illness by sending electronic currents through the brain.
2:10
And we know now that that- Not to do that- Right when you're pregnant at all, or at all.
2:16
At all.
2:16
But it's extremely detrimental.
2:18
Yes.
2:18
Wow.
2:20
So theirs was a poor household, and Rose didn't do very well at school.
2:24
Now, after her parents separated, Rose at first lived with her mom, but six months later moved to her dad's with her sister, Patricia.
2:33
Her dad, Bill, had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and had become abusive and violent, and he also sexually abused both the sisters.
2:43
I hate that.
2:44
Sounds like both parents had some mental instability.
2:46
Had some issues, for sure.
2:48
So at age 13, when puberty hit, Rose began parading naked around the house and started molesting her nine-year-old brother, Graham, and her even younger brother, Gordon.
2:59
Ugh.
3:00
We are, like, two paragraphs in and you look like you're about to I'm about to have a breakdown.
3:05
Right.
3:06
Yeah.
3:07
This is probably one of the most hideous stories we'll ever cover- Yeah to be fair.
3:12
It was just two years later, at age 15, that Rose would meet Fred West while waiting for a bus at a bus stop.
3:20
If only they'd never met So that's a good point we could go into at the end.
3:26
However, psychologists who studied both said that either one of them would've been likely to commit crimes like this- Mm-hmm due to their backgrounds.
3:36
Right.
3:37
'Cause we've just heard Rose's.
3:39
Mm-hmm.
3:39
And trust me, Fred's is no better.
3:41
But the fact that they actually met each other was what made it so bad.
3:47
Right.
3:49
So Frederick Walter Stephen West was born in 1941 to Walter and Daisy West.
3:56
Both their moms were named Daisy.
3:58
Wow.
4:00
So they were also a poor family, but this time farm workers, and Fred was their first surviving child.
4:06
So in total they had eight children, only six of which survived, but Fred was always deemed his mother's favorite The family lived in a cottage in Herefordshire, where Walter, Fred's dad, worked as a milking herdsman.
4:24
Now, the cottage had no electricity and was heated by a fire log.
4:27
Wow.
4:29
The West children were put to work early, the girls picking strawberries on another local farm, and the boys hunting rabbits.
4:36
And I'm not really sure how that paid, but I guess maybe they ate rabbit back in that day.
4:41
Right.
4:41
I don't know.
4:43
Now, Fred also took up theft at an early age.
4:47
Fred left school at 15 without graduating, and apparently had barely developed the literacy and numerical skills of a seven-year-old.
4:55
Mm.
4:56
According to Fred, his mother had sexually abused him, and his father sexually abused his sisters.
5:04
Fred also claims to have performed acts of bestiality in his teens, though his siblings deny it ever happened.
5:11
What the fuck?
5:13
Yeah.
5:16
By the time he was 16, he had gained himself a reputation for fondling young girls without their permission, and by age 20, his then 13-year-old sister, Kitty, told her mother that Fred had been raping her for the past six months, and she was admitting it now due to the fact that she was pregnant with Fred's baby.
5:37
No.
5:37
She said it.
5:38
Fred was arrested and admitted to the police that he often sexually abused young girls, and was quite surprised it was even an issue.
5:45
He said to them,"Doesn't everybody do it?" Well, I guess he grew up in a household that did that.
5:50
This is what I'm saying.
5:51
Ugh.
5:53
So after that, most of his family disowned him.
5:57
His trial was set for November 9th, 1961, and his mother, although apparently horrified by it all, testified in Fred's defense.
6:06
But the case was ultimately dismissed when it came down to Kitty's turn to testify, and she refused.
6:12
Wow.
6:14
That's why it was in red.
6:15
All my red flags are in red.
6:17
This was the first time that authorities dropped the ball.
6:20
Wow.
6:22
After that, most of his family disowned him, and he was made to leave the family home, though apparently he did reconcile with his parents about a year later Now incidentally, in between the ages of 16 and 20, Fred suffered two head injuries.
6:38
One from a motorcycle accident, and the other from falling down two flights of stairs after attempting to fondle a girl on a fire escape, who actually fought back and pushed him.
6:49
Okay, so go, go her.
6:51
Go girl, yeah.
6:52
But like, he has experienced all this trauma and abuse, and now he's had these head injuries.
6:58
Two head injuries.
6:58
These are all things that fuck people up.
7:01
Right.
7:02
And this is why I wanted to go through their, both of their histories first.
7:05
Right.
7:05
Because obviously he had a lot of trauma and some head injuries, and Rose also, I mean, her mom having the therapy during pregnancy, and then obviously she also went through some abuse in the family home All right, so now on to Fred's first marriage.
7:22
Okay.
7:23
So when Fred was 21, a former girlfriend of his, Catherine Costello, known as Rena, returned to town, apparently pregnant by a man of Pakistani descent, and she had been sent away by her family, who were ashamed of her carrying a mixed-race child.
7:39
This was back in the day.
7:41
It was.
7:42
So Fred and Rena married while she was pregnant, and when baby Charmaine was born in March 1963, they told family and friends that Rena had suffered a miscarriage, so they had adopted this mixed-race child.
7:55
Hmm.
7:56
Okay.
7:56
I mean, kind of kudos to Fred for marrying somebody.
7:59
It is the only kudos he's ever gonna get.
8:01
Right, right.
8:02
Trust me.
8:03
But he married somebody who was pregnant with somebody else's child he knew was gonna be mixed race, and they didn't give up for adoption or anything.
8:10
They did actually keep.
8:11
Right.
8:11
Only kudos he's ever gonna get.
8:13
Yeah.
8:13
Okay?
8:15
In July 1964, Rena gave birth to a daughter with Fred, whom they named Anna Marie.
8:24
The Wests had a nanny named Isa McNeil, and Isa often brought her friend, Anna McFall, over to the home as well.
8:33
Isa would tell people that although Rena was a loving mother, Fred was a harsh father, who put the girls in bunk beds with bars, and they were only allowed out when he was at work.
8:46
Wow.
8:47
Yeah.
8:49
At this time, Fred was working as an ice cream van driver, of all things.
8:55
No way.
8:57
Wow.
8:58
Which is why that first red flag, that whole impregnating his 13-year-old, had they followed through with that, he would never have got a job like this.
9:08
Exactly.
9:09
Even if he hadn't have gone to jail.
9:11
But anyway, he was also having numerous affairs outside of his marriage, which came to Rena's attention after he fathered a child with another woman.
9:21
But she didn't leave Fred.
9:22
Instead, she decided to have a affair of her own.
9:26
Just get a divorce.
9:27
With a man named John McLachlan.
9:30
When Fred became aware of the affair, he would beat Rena, and John, in turn, would beat Fred.
9:37
And so this just kept on.
9:39
Wow.
9:41
In November 1965, Fred accidentally ran over and killed a small child with his ice cream van.
9:48
No way.
9:49
Yep.
9:50
And it for sure was an accident?
9:52
He was found to be innocent of any crime But he then quit the ice cream van, assuming that the bad press would ruin the business.
10:00
They didn't fire him?
10:01
He quit?
10:02
I think it was his own business.
10:04
Oh, okay.
10:05
I don't believe he ever worked for anybody.
10:07
Oh, I see.
10:08
Okay.
10:08
They always had their own businesses.
10:11
What a choice for him to make then.
10:13
Wow, let me go drive an ice cream truck and deal with children every day.
10:17
I mean, I'm sure that's why.
10:18
Wow.
10:19
Wow.
10:22
So yeah, he was found of no wrongdoing of that, but highly, uh, suspicious in my- Very suspicious opinions.
10:31
So after that, he, Rena, Charmaine, Anna Marie, Isa, and Anna McFall moved into a trailer in a different area, and he started work as a truck driver.
10:44
How about let's not put him behind the wheel of anything?
10:47
And how about let's not have all of these people living in one trailer with your family?
10:53
Yeah.
10:54
That was bizarre to me.
10:56
You guys have trailers?
10:57
So they're known as mobile homes.
11:00
Uh-huh.
11:01
And in any documentary or, or readings about this, it'll say that they moved to a mobile home park.
11:07
I changed the word to trailer as most of our listeners are- But y- they're like our trailers/mobile homes?
11:13
Yes.
11:14
Wow.
11:15
Yeah.
11:16
Okay.
11:17
Pretty much So as time went on, Fred became more and more abusive to all three women, and sexually abusive to Charmaine.
11:27
That was the oldest daughter that wasn't his.
11:31
And Rena called John, her lover, to come and save her, claiming Fred was forcing her into prostitution to supplement his income.
11:40
I believe it.
11:41
Yep.
11:42
And she plotted a way to escape with Isa and Anna and her two daughters.
11:47
But by this time, Anna McFall had fallen in love with Fred.
11:53
Shut up.
11:54
And betrayed them all by telling Fred about the plan, and told the others that she and the girls would be staying with Fred, and it all blew up.
12:06
Police were called, and Rena, Isa, and John were able to leave the situation.
12:12
But Anna McFall, Charmaine, and Anna Marie remained with Fred.
12:19
This is just a big old mess.
12:21
Right.
12:22
And you see why I have that highlighted in red.
12:23
Why would they leave the children with him?
12:26
Right.
12:26
Why would Rena leave the children with him?
12:29
Why would the police leave the children with him?
12:32
It boggles the mind.
12:33
I don't know.
12:34
I'm gobsmacked.
12:35
That was my second authorities dropped the ball.
12:38
Mm.
12:40
So Anna McFall continued to live with Fred as his partner, and was convinced that one day he would divorce Rena and marry her.
12:48
However, in July 1967, Anna, who was eight months pregnant with Fred's baby at just 18 years old, went missing, though no one ever reported her missing.
13:01
But we will come back to her later.
13:03
I'm just over here thinking, like, they're treating this man as if he's some prize.
13:08
Like, no, I want him.
13:10
I know.
13:10
He can marry me.
13:11
Like- I have no idea.
13:13
He was considered very charming, manipulative And we'll talk about that a little bit later as well, because when we come to his appropriate adult, she also comes under this spell, and she's- Okay yeah.
13:27
We'll come back to that.
13:29
So the following month, Rena reconciled with Fred.
13:34
Of course she did.
13:34
Of course she did.
13:35
Because he's irresistible.
13:38
But it did not last.
13:39
Shocker.
13:40
And when she left again, a year later, she left her two daughters with him again.
13:47
Now he was alone with no one to look after the girls while he worked, and he would often hand them over to child services for long periods of time.
13:56
Why did they ever give them back?
13:58
Right.
13:58
Right.
13:59
Right.
14:00
'Cause now he's literally told you,"I don't have the means and the ability to take care of them." Right.
14:04
"You take them." And look at his history.
14:06
Yeah.
14:06
With 13-year-olds.
14:07
Right.
14:08
I know.
14:08
This is so crazy.
14:10
All right.
14:10
We have now got to where I put when Fred met Rose.
14:14
Mm.
14:16
So Fred West met Rose Letts at a bus stop when she had just turned 15 and he was 27.
14:24
Gross.
14:25
Rose wasn't interested in Fred's advances at first, but he love bombed her.
14:29
Mm-hmm.
14:30
Typical.
14:31
And persistently turned up at the bus stop when he knew that she would be there.
14:35
They often chatted, and Fred told her that his wife had abandoned him and left their two daughters for him to raise.
14:42
Of course he did.
14:44
Rose told Fred that she had never had a boyfriend and that she worked at a local bakery.
14:49
So he used this information to send gifts to the bakery until eventually she agreed to date him, and just weeks later, Rose quit the bakery job and moved in with Fred to become the nanny to Charmaine and Anna Marie.
15:03
Now, the couple kept this from Rose's parents, and Fred gave Rose the amount of money she used to earn at the bakery to give her parents each week so they wouldn't know any different.
15:12
Wow.
15:14
When Rose's parents figured out what was going on, they contacted social services, who sent Rose to a home for troubled teens.
15:23
Because she's so troubled.
15:24
Right.
15:25
She deserves to be locked away.
15:26
I wanna know what the parents said when they called, because you would think they would say,"Hey, my daughter's living with this man, and she's underage and he's 27." You would think that they would've been asking the police to bring her home.
15:40
Bring her home and take me to the man.
15:42
Whereas it seems that they were like,"We don't want her there, but we don't want her either." That's horrible.
15:48
Yeah.
15:49
I don't really know why they did that.
15:53
When she got out of this home, Fred was serving time in jail for theft.
15:58
But as soon as he was released, M- Rose moved in with Fred again, and not long after, Rose discovered she was pregnant.
16:06
And her father again had social services take her in, who then released her when she agreed to terminate the pregnancy.
16:14
But instead, she went straight back to Fred, at which point her, her parents just gave up and disowned her This is a, an absolute failure of those parents Well, remember, these are the parents with mental issues- Right and yeah.
16:29
It's still a failure though.
16:30
I know, I know.
16:32
So Fred and Rose moved town, and Rose gave birth to a daughter, Heather Ann, though it is actually unsure if Heather was fathered by Fred or Rose's own father.
16:42
Oh.
16:42
After she gave birth to Heather, Fred was again imprisoned, this time for six months, and Rose, at just 17 years old, was alone at home, raising Charmaine, Anna Marie, and baby Heather.
16:55
Wow.
16:56
Right?
16:57
With, with parents not supporting them.
16:59
Right.
17:01
In June of 1971, Fred was released from prison, and later that year, after meeting with Fred to discuss custody of her two daughters, Rena West disappeared.
17:12
Hmm.
17:13
And we'll come back to her later.
17:15
Okay.
17:16
In January 1972, Fred and Rose married, despite Fred never actually having legally divorced Rena.
17:24
Wow.
17:25
So he's a polygamist, he's an abuser, he's a thief.
17:28
He, like- Or he knew that Rena no longer was breathing.
17:32
Oh, that makes sense.
17:34
Okay.
17:34
Mm-hmm.
17:37
So later that year, Rose found herself pregnant again, and the couple moved into the house at the infamous 25 Cromwell Street in Gloucester, the house where it all went down.
17:49
Mm.
17:50
It was a three-story house, and to help pay for the property, Fred converted several upstairs rooms into bedsits to rent out for lodgers.
17:59
So just to translate that into American, a bedsit is literally one room, but it has a bed and a sofa and a TV.
18:08
Like, it's a, it's a whole l- Like a studio apartment type deal?
18:11
Ki- kind of, yeah.
18:11
Okay.
18:11
But a lot smaller because it's just a bedroom.
18:14
Wow, okay.
18:16
Okay?
18:16
And then a lodger being somebody that rents from you.
18:19
Okay.
18:20
They lodge with you, so it's a lodger.
18:24
However, one room of the house was known as Rose's room, and no family members except Rose were allowed in the room.
18:30
Rose carried the key to the room around her neck, and there was a red light that would be turned on when Rose was in the room, which indicated that she was not to be disturbed.
18:39
Hmm.
18:40
This room was used for Rose's prostitution business.
18:44
Ugh.
18:45
So it is highly likely that he was trying to get Rena to do that.
18:48
Right.
18:48
Yeah.
18:49
She found clients through local newspaper advertisements, and there were several peepholes that enabled Fred to watch the goings on in the room and also sometimes film it The room consisted of a bar, a bed, and multiple pieces of bondage equipment.
19:05
Wow.
19:07
Rose's own father, who had decided to accept his daughter's choice of husband, found out about the prostitution, but instead of being appalled by it, he became a client.
19:17
Just, I wanna be sick right now.
19:19
Uh-huh.
19:19
Now, over the years, Rose gave birth to eight children, but there's actually no knowing who fathered any of them.
19:25
Both parents were violently abusive towards the children, but mainly Rose.
19:30
But she was careful not to mark their faces and hands, and over eight years, the family had 31 emergency room visits, all explained as accidents and none reported to social services.
19:46
Can you see why that's highlighted in red?
19:49
I'm speechless.
19:50
I'm absolutely speechless.
19:52
And this is not even just one organization ignoring it.
19:57
It's everybody.
19:58
Everybody.
19:59
Yeah.
20:01
So in October 1972, Caroline Owens was hired as their nanny, and she moved in.
20:08
But it did not take long for them to make sexual advances on her, so she planned to move out.
20:13
Right.
20:15
As she was making her way home, Fred and Rose picked her up off the side of the road, proceeded to beat her until she was unconscious, take her back to the basement of Cromwell Street, where she was bound, gagged, and sexually assaulted repeatedly, and at the end of this ordeal, they asked her to return as their nanny.
20:34
Uh- Now, she agreed because she saw it as a way to save her own life.
20:39
Right.
20:41
But she was able to escape and go home to her mother, who immediately called the police.
20:47
Fred and Rose were arrested and charged with assault, indecent assault, which I guess here would be sexual assault.
20:53
Mm-hmm.
20:54
Okay.
20:54
Rape and bodily harm, and when Caroline could not bring herself to testify, the charges were reduced.
21:03
And although they were both found guilty, the result was a 50 pound fine each, about$75 each.
21:12
Uh- Red flag number, what, five million at this point?
21:14
Yeah, I'm, I don't even know what to say.
21:18
But let's go back to the West children, who could not escape these monsters.
21:21
Yeah.
21:23
Anna Marie, a daughter that he had with Rena, ran away from home in 1979.
21:30
So Fred had focused his sexual abuse after that on Heather and Mae, his two oldest daughters with Rose.
21:37
Anna Marie actually ran away from home after suffering a severe beating from Rose after she was discharged from the hospital due to a visit for an ectopic pregnancy.
21:48
Mm.
21:49
No doubt.
21:50
Yeah.
21:50
Fred's baby.
21:50
Yeah.
21:51
Mm-hmm.
21:52
I mean, so you go through all that, you get out of hospital, and then your step-mom beats you in the stomach for, for having gotten pregnant.
22:00
Horrible.
22:01
Yeah.
22:01
But she ran away.
22:03
Good.
22:03
And she's married, and she's not completely out of it.
22:06
We come back to her a little bit, but- Okay.
22:09
So Heather and Mae were both very close to their brother Stephen, and the trio tried to protect each other by making sure that neither girl was ever left alone with Fred.
22:19
They would stand guard outside the bathroom door for each other, although the girls took to only changing clothes and showering when Fred was not home.
22:27
Fred had made it clear that his intentions w- was to impregnate them both, his theory being,"I made you, and I can do what I like with you." It's disgusting.
22:39
Stephen was also informed by Fred that at age 17, he would be expected to start participating in sex with Rose.
22:47
But thankfully, Stephen was actually evicted by the Wests at age 16.
22:52
May learned to block out the abuse mentally, accept it and laugh it off.
22:56
But Heather could not and developed many nervous habits like rocking back and forth, extreme nail biting, drinking and being afraid of all males.
23:06
She had planned to run away and live away from all humans as she no longer trusted anybody, but unfortunately she never got the chance.
23:15
Now, at school, Heather tried to tell friends about the abuse, and the school staff noticed her nervous behavior, and she would also refuse to shower after sports at school, being afraid of practically everyone.
23:30
One time, when she was forced to shower at school, the staff noticed the bruises and welts on her body, but accepted her explanation that it was sibling fighting that caused.
23:41
That's a mega mole job.
23:43
Huge.
23:44
Huge.
23:45
I know this is back in the day, and also England, but- Was that not- Are the, are the...
23:50
Well, I don't know what your laws are, but here we have mandated reporters, and schools are mandated reporters, and by law they have to report shit like that.
23:57
Mm-hmm.
23:59
Yes.
24:01
So once Heather left school, she applied for live-in jobs, such as chambermaid job, in the hopes of leaving the family home, but when she found out she did not get it, she was totally devastated.
24:12
Her siblings said, like, she literally cried for 24 hours straight.
24:16
So the day after she received the rejection letter, her siblings came home from school to find her gone, with the explanation that she had got the job after all and had left to go do that.
24:27
However, Rose told a neighbor that she and Heather had gotten into an argument, and Heather had run away, and again changed her story to the other children that Heather had run away with her lesbian lover.
24:39
Oh, okay.
24:39
When Mae and Stephen had not heard from Heather, who they felt sure would have contacted them, they wanted to go to the police to report her missing.
24:47
So Fred changed the narrative again, saying Heather was involved in credit card fraud, and going to the police would get her in trouble and arrested.
24:57
I feel like he's probably the one involved in credit card fraud, but okay.
25:01
Right.
25:02
Then later, in an effort to stop the other children divulging information to people outside the house about what was going on inside, Fred would threaten them by jokingly saying they would end up under the patio like Heather if they did.
25:17
Mm.
25:18
He would laugh it off, but the children were never quite sure how much truth there might be in it.
25:23
Wow.
25:24
Although Fred thought this was funny and a way to keep them quiet, it was ultimately what ended up leading to Fred's arrest and the murders being discovered.
25:34
In 1992, Fred and Rose's 13-year-old daughter, Louise, became the latest victim of Fred's abuse when he started to rape and sodomize her.
25:45
She went to Rose about it, who would say things like,"Well, you asked for it," and,"What did you expect?" And apparently she was, like, curled up in a ball and actively bleeding, and she would go to her mom for comfort and help and, and Rose was just like,"What do you expect?" That's heart-wrenching.
26:01
It's horrible.
26:03
So with no support at home, Louise confides in a friend, and that friend told her mother, and her mother, horrified by what she had heard, called the police anonymously to report it.
26:15
Police got a search warrant for the property under the guise of searching for stolen goods, due to Fred's background.
26:23
And over 99 pornographic tapes were found, but none of them showed the sexual abuse of the children.
26:32
So they took Louise in for questioning, and a specialist was able to get her to reveal what was really happening inside the house.
26:40
After a medical exam was done and her allegations were confirmed, the next day, all of the West children were removed from the home and placed in custody.
26:48
Finally, something.
26:49
Fucking finally.
26:50
It takes for a 13-year-old to be sodomized to the point where she's bleeding.
26:54
Right And thank goodness for that mother.
26:58
Yeah.
26:58
So once safe away from their abusive parents, they told authorities that Rose did most of the physical abuse, and that Fred would threaten them with ending up under the patio like Heather.
27:09
On further investigation, police realized that no one had seen or heard from Heather in months, and after charging Fred and Rose with various charges including rape, buggery, which is the sodomized part, it's just known as buggery in England- Wow and child abuse, they start to question them about the whereabouts of Heather.
27:31
They gave the story that she left due to being a lesbian, and Rose was granted bail.
27:36
Fred remained in custody and denied all of the charges.
27:39
However, Anna Marie heard about the arrests and his denial of it all, and came forward to back up the allegations of abuse.
27:47
Good.
27:49
She agreed to testify against both Rose and Fred, and also mentioned to the police that she had been unsuccessful in contacting her mother Rina and her sister Charmaine for years, and that she used to remain in contact with Heather, but she had been unable to reach her for some time as well.
28:08
Mm.
28:09
The rape, abuse, and buggery case involving Louise soon fell flat when L- Louise refused to testify, and Mae and Anna Marie retracted their statements, as Rose had been released and they were scared of her wrath.
28:23
But Anna Marie did push forward with the inquiry about her missing mother and sister.
28:28
Even though all current charges were dropped against Fred and Rose, police carried on investigating the disappearances of Heather, Charmaine, and Rina.
28:38
The only thing they had to go on being the family, quote, joke that Heather was buried under the patio, and they finally managed to secure a search warrant to look under it.
28:49
At this point, no one had seen or heard from Heather in eight years.
28:54
So they are attributing these missing people possibly to Fred and Rose West, but yet they dropped all the other charges and sent the children back with them, right?
29:06
Am, am I understanding?
29:07
Mm-hmm.
29:08
Wow.
29:08
So Rose was home when the search warrant was served, and she becomes hysterical, and not surprisingly very rude to officers.
29:15
She's just a very rude person actually.
29:17
Right.
29:18
She's even rude in court.
29:19
She's just rude.
29:20
Not hard to believe.
29:20
Right.
29:21
She called Fred to come home from work, who turned up and tried to tell them that Heather was involved in a drug cartel Again, with the credit card fraud, I kind of feel like Fred might be the one involved in a drug cartel He actually tells them that she's in, like, Bahrain or something like with a drug cartel.
29:39
Okay.
29:41
This young girl.
29:43
But police start digging up the patio, and this causes Fred to confess to killing Heather in a fit of rage.
29:51
Wow.
29:52
And they arrest him.
29:54
He claims Rose knew nothing about it, but they carry on with digging up the patio in an effort to find Heather's remains,'cause as we know, you need some evidence to get a true conviction.
30:05
Realizing they are still digging, Fred lets them know that they're looking in the wrong place, and directs them to the area where they will find her remains.
30:14
Though it does seem later on that his main reason for redirecting them may have been that he was hoping they would not find the other bodies.
30:21
Right.
30:23
A body is located exactly where Fred told them, and dental records confirm that it is indeed the remains of Fred and Rose's own daughter, Heather.
30:32
Fred is then formally charged with her murder.
30:35
Wow.
30:36
Good.
30:38
However, in the original spot where they had been digging, a thigh bone was found.
30:43
And when Fred is questioned about it, and when I say questioned about it, they're like,"Um, we found two thigh bones with Heather.
30:50
Did she have three legs?" When Fred is questioned about it, he nonchalantly confesses to two additional murders.
30:57
He is more concerned about the current state of his back garden that he worked so hard on.
31:01
Mm-mm.
31:02
Now, one of the additional bodies is that of Shirley Robinson.
31:05
Shirley had rented a room from the Wests.
31:08
She was bisexual and casually participated in sex with them both willingly.
31:12
However, Shirley had become pregnant with Fred's baby, which seemed to ultimately lead to her murder once she was eight months pregnant.
31:21
Wow.
31:22
He impregnates everybody.
31:23
No, literally everybody, and everybody just can't resist him.
31:26
It's absolutely insane to me.
31:28
Mm-hmm.
31:30
The second body at this time remained unidentified.
31:33
After finding the two additional victims, police move Rose out of the house into a safe house, because at this time she is still considered innocent of any crimes.
31:45
Wow They proceed to dig up the rest of the garden, and Fred is charged with the additional two murders.
31:53
And the police also now start to press Fred on the whereabouts of Rena and Charmaine.
32:01
Now, Fred is given the services of a court-appointed attorney who advises him not to talk to the police anymore, but he was wasting his breath.
32:11
Fred will talk to anyone who will listen about the murders and the victims in a very nonchalant, indifferent way.
32:18
When he is later analyzed by a criminal psychologist, they say that his blasé demeanor about the crimes indicated that he had committed so many offenses over such a long period of time, that he was now indifferent to the acts of torture, mutilation, and murder.
32:33
Well, and also, obviously, the way that he was raised kinda desensitized him because- Yeah he was committing these acts like this from being a minor.
32:43
And was surprised when arrested that it was even an issue.
32:46
Yeah.
32:46
Doesn't everybody do that?
32:47
Doesn't everybody do it?
32:50
So despite resistance from his attorney, Fred hands him a note to give the police superintendent in charge, which reads,"I, Frederick West, authorize my solicitor, Howard Ogden, to advise Superintendent Bennett that I wish to admit to further approx nine killings, expressly Charmaine, Rena, Linda Gough, and others to be identified.
33:17
Signed F.
33:18
West." Wow.
33:21
When they question who these other victims are and where they are buried, he admits to picking up hitchhikers and girls waiting for buses, taking them back to the house on Cromwell Street to sexually abuse and torture, stating that the bodies can be found under the cellar floor and the downstairs bathroom floor Upon this information, six more bodies are found at 25 Cromwell Street.
33:43
Wow.
33:45
Throughout all of this, Fred claims that Rose had no knowledge of the girls or the murders, but police suspect otherwise, and Rose is also arrested and charged with five of the murders, though unlike Fred, she maintains her innocence.
34:01
Mm.
34:02
So Fred, having confessed to the murders of Rena and Charmaine, tells police where the bodies are, and also leads them to the remains of Anna McFall.
34:11
Mm.
34:13
Although he denies killing her, but they do charge him with her murder.
34:19
When they ask him, like,"How did you know the body was here then?" He was like,"She was calling to me." Shut the Like, you I don't get that, because you've already confessed to all these others.
34:29
So why throw a wrench in on this one?
34:32
Apparently, he considered her his true love.
34:36
Oh, okay.
34:37
So he was ashamed of that one for, for that reason, probably.
34:40
For whatever reason.
34:40
Right.
34:40
Yeah.
34:40
Okay.
34:40
Mm-hmm.
34:43
On their first court appearance, Fred and Rose are both present at the same time.
34:48
This is the first time they've seen each other since Fred's arrest, and Fred is charged with 12 murders, and Rose is charged with nine.
34:56
As they haven't seen each oth- others since the arrests, Fred is desperate to get Rose's attention, trying to make eye contact, attempting to touch her.
35:05
But Rose winces and retracts from Fred, avoiding eye contact, and acting like she is appalled by him- Wow much to his dismay.
35:16
Fred attempts to contact Rose by letter, but she doesn't reply.
35:21
When Steven and Anna Marie visit him in jail, and I've got,"What the fuck?" written by that.
35:28
Mm-hmm.
35:28
But I guess it's sort of that, I mean.
35:30
Right.
35:30
It is.
35:31
Yeah.
35:31
He asks them to pass messages to Rose, but she has totally disowned him, and as a result, Fred becomes severely depressed.
35:40
Not'cause he's in jail, not'cause he's accused of 12 murders, but because Rose has rejected him.
35:47
Rose doesn't like me anymore.
35:49
Right.
35:52
As a result, Fred tells the police that he lied about committing all the murders.
35:57
He says Rena killed Anna McFall due to jealousy.
36:00
Oh, my God.
36:02
And that Rose killed all the others.
36:05
You like my note here?
36:06
"Laugh my ass off.
36:07
Fuck you, Fred." Right.
36:09
Yeah.
36:09
Fuck you, Fred.
36:10
Fuck you, Fred.
36:10
Exactly.
36:12
Now, Fred had been on suicide watch previously, but as soon as the suicide watch is laxed, Fred hangs himself in his cell using his bedsheets, leaving a suicide note, which was a picture of a gravestone which read,"In loving memory.
36:27
Fred West, Rose West.
36:29
Rest in peace where no shadow falls.
36:32
In perfect peace he waits for Rose, his wife." Wow.
36:37
So he was really tormented by the fact that she just didn't want him anymore.
36:42
Yeah.
36:43
And it, literally, he was trying to take all the blame and do anything to keep her out of it, and then as soon as she, like, turned on him- Mm-hmm yeah.
36:52
I mean, she didn't turn on him insofar as, like, give them Give her information information or testify against him or anything.
37:00
She just didn't want anything to do with him personally.
37:03
Right.
37:06
So when Rose hears of Fred's passing, she's not upset.
37:09
She's actually hoping this means that the case against her falls apart.
37:12
Of course.
37:13
'Cause that's what really matters.
37:15
However, it soon comes to light that Fred was actually incarcerated at the time of Charmaine's death, making Rose the sole suspect in Charmaine's murder.
37:24
Well, well, well.
37:27
At Rose's trial, her defense continued to place all the blame on Fred, playing tapes of his original confession, when he states that Rose knew nothing of the killings.
37:39
Rose testifies against the advice of her counsel, and claimed to have never met the majority of these victims.
37:45
She also claimed to have received phone calls from Heather after her disappearance.
37:50
Oh, okay.
37:52
We believe you.
37:53
Uh, what?
37:53
I was like, delusional much?
37:54
Mm-hmm.
37:55
Liar.
37:56
But the final witness was Fred's appointed appropriate adult, and just to explain what that is.
38:04
As Fred was not competent in reading and writing, as we said earlier, and his IQ was also considered lower than average, he was labeled a vulnerable adult.
38:13
So the court appoints someone named an appropriate adult, whose responsibility is to explain what is going on to the accused, and make sure they understand the legal implications and what their rights are.
38:24
So social worker Janet Leach was appointed as Fred's appropriate adult, and she was the last witness to testify at the trial, and was also one of the last people to have had conversations with Fred about the murders.
38:37
Well, now, while he was still alive, Janet was bound by confidentiality and not allowed to inform the police of the content of the private conversations she had with Fred.
38:46
But after his death, she was no longer bound by that secrecy, so she was called to testify against Rose.
38:53
She stated that Fred told her that Rose had murdered Charmaine and Shirley Robinson, and had participated in dismembering other murder victims, and played a large part in at least eight of the other deaths But then the trial stumbles, and for some time is on hold as it comes to light that Janet Leach had also agreed to sell her story to a newspaper, even though they would not get that story from her until after the trial had concluded.
39:24
Janet had sworn under oath that she had not done so, which was a standard question for all witnesses.
39:31
So when confronted on the stand about the fact that she did sell her story and had lied about it, Janet had a mental and physical breakdown.
39:40
She had to be removed from the court and hospitalized.
39:43
Wow.
39:45
The trial was on hold while the police investigated her.
39:48
It turned out that Fred had taken an immediate liking to her due to her striking resemblance to Anna McPhail, his love.
39:56
Mm-hmm.
39:57
And he grew to trust Janet, so he manipulated her, became close to her, and literally told her every single detail about every rape and murder, and mentally, she was just not able to cope with the information.
40:13
Mm.
40:13
She was literally just a social worker who had volunteered for appropriate adult duty if needed, never imagining she would be dealing with anything like this.
40:24
She had done the training, but never actually served as an appropriate adult before.
40:29
But despite all of this, the judge decides to allow Janet's testimony to stand.
40:35
So the jury come back after 13 hours of deliberation over two days with a unanimous verdict of guilt in all 10 murders, and Rose is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, where she remains to this day, still protesting her innocence.
40:52
Wow.
40:54
Now let's go back over the 13 victims that we know of As some of them we know from the lives of Fred and Rose, and some were random hitchhikers they picked up, but all of these are human beings who would have gotten to continue their lives had they not encountered these absolute demons.
41:12
Mm.
41:14
So firstly, Anna McFall.
41:16
She was murdered by Fred West in 1967 at eight months pregnant with his baby, although her body was not found until Fred gave authorities the location in 1994.
41:26
He denied killing her.
41:28
She was just 18 years old.
41:31
Her body was eventually found near where she and Fred lived back in 1967.
41:37
Number two, Fred confessed to murdering Mary Jane Blassum in 1968 when she was just 15, after abducting her from a bus stop and raping her, though he was never charged with murder, as no body was ever found.
41:51
Mm.
41:52
Number three, Rose murdered Fred's stepdaughter Charmaine, the mixed-race child his first wife Rena was pregnant with when he married her, when she was just eight years old, most likely in a fit of rage, though Rose will never admit it, but Fred was in jail, and we will not know for sure exactly what led to her murder.
42:14
Mm.
42:15
Number four, a year later, Catherine Costello, Fred's first wife, also known as Rena, traveled to where Fred lived to try and seek custody of her girls, and it is believed Fred murdered her, as she would have brought to light the fact that Charmaine was missing had she pursued custody.
42:33
Mm-hmm.
42:33
Number five, in April 1973, Lynda Gough was the first victim of Fred and Rose as a couple.
42:40
She rented a room from them at 25 Cromwell Street, and after her mother lost contact with her, she contacted Rose to ask where her daughter was, and was of course given some bullshit story.
42:53
But Lynda's remains were found under the garage after Fred's arrest.
42:57
She was just 19.
43:00
Number six, in November 1973, Carol Ann Cooper was just 15 when she went missing waiting for a bus.
43:08
Her remains were later found in the West cellar In December 1973, 21-year-old Lucy Partington was also abducted from a bus stop, and her remains were also found in the cellar.
43:22
Number eight, in April 1974, Therese Siegenthaler, she was, uh, I think Swedish- Mm-hmm um, visiting, was just 21 when she went missing while hitchhiking.
43:35
She was buried under a fake chimney at 25 Cromwell Street.
43:40
Number nine, in 1974, 15-year-old Shirley Hubbard was abducted from a bus stop, and her remains were found in the cellar.
43:49
Number 10, in April 1975, Juanita Mott, who had been a previous tenant of the Wests, was picked up by Fred while hitchhiking home, and her remains turned up in the house.
44:01
Number 11, in 1978, Shirley Robinson was 18 and eight months pregnant with Fred's baby when she was murdered by Rose.
44:10
Uh, number 12, in 1979, Anne Chambers was 16 when she was murdered.
44:16
Now, according to Fred, Rose got, quote,"Too bloody vicious with her," and she died as a result.
44:24
He also refers to this as one of Rose's mistakes.
44:29
Anne's remains were found buried in the backyard.
44:32
And number 13 is the last one that we know of, is Fred and Rose's own 16-year-old daughter, Heather, who was likely murdered as she was planning to leave the family home, and their morbid secrets could possibly get leaked out.
44:47
Also, the appropriate adult, Janet Leach, her life was also permanently ruined as a result of what she went through, both during her time spent with Fred and during the trial.
44:58
Unlike the officers and lawyers involved in the case, she was not offered counseling, as she was not a paid worker on the case.
45:06
She was a volunteer.
45:08
So she sought compensation through the courts for post-traumatic stress disorder, but her case was thrown out, and she heard the worst of it, the worst of everything.
45:17
Right, and that was her first case- Yeah as an appropriate adult.
45:20
Like, I can't even imagine- Yeah to have that drawn on you.
45:23
She also continued to deal with intense media scrutiny.
45:26
She had to move away from the area, and she became very withdrawn and private.
45:30
And let's not forget the surviving West children, who were subject to mental, physical, and sexual abuse for so long.
45:39
Now, these are the victims we know of, however, authorities believe there may be many more, as it is unlikely the Wests went so long in between murders, and there are many missing girls from the area in the age range they preyed upon, who also went missing from bus stops and hitchhiking.
45:57
But without bodies or further confessions, there's no way of really knowing the depth of the crimes of this grotesque couple.
46:06
I knew the story.
46:07
Um, I've watched the documentaries, but it's still just shocking and horrifying to hear it all laid out.
46:18
Yeah.
46:19
I mean, their own children.
46:22
An eight-year-old.
46:23
An eight-year-old.
46:26
I mean, it's believed that Rose never really took to her or loved her.
46:31
Mm-hmm.
46:31
She was from- She was the stepchild.
46:34
She was the stepchild, and she was mixed race.
46:36
Right which back then was only very accepted.
46:40
Maybe Rose didn't.
46:41
Probably not, yeah.
46:42
Yeah.
46:43
So.
46:44
Do you guys have the death penalty?
46:46
No.
46:47
Okay.
46:49
'Cause I was like,"Oh, they're totally gonna get the death penalty." Yeah.
46:52
If anybody deserves the death penalty.
46:55
Okay.
46:56
Right.
46:56
No, agreed, but no, they don't.
46:59
All right.
47:00
Let's save this for the after show.
47:02
Let's save it.
47:05
Well, guys, if you made it through all that, I'm sorry.
47:09
Thank you for listening, though, as always.
47:12
Yes.
47:13
And subscribers, we will see you in the after show.
47:16
Everybody else, we'll see you next week with Lorena Bobbitt.
47:20
Yeah, another, another crazy- Mm well-known story.
47:24
Mm-hmm.
47:24
All right, guys, until then.
47:26
Be divas.
47:27
Not deadly.
47:27
Bye.
47:28
Bye.