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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 137 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Axis Solutions, elevating you
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. That again for
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: another week of Rugby Direct. I'm in Capean Liam joins
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: me as all ways to review the first Test for
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks at Alice Park, or first Test against
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: South Africa. Third in the Rugby Championship overall and thirty
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: one to twenty seven defeat to South Africa. Plenty to
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: get stuck into Liam, but I figure of him as well.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Start just with the top line reaction to the game. Now,
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: you've had a couple of days to let it settle
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks. From my point of view, obviously let
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: one slip. How did you react to it?
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, Elliott, so you're enjoying all the treats that
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: South Africa.
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: Has to offer.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: Look, Bill Blackx blew it didn't They They started supremely well,
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: came out of the blocks, bought South Africa under a
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: lot of pressure for a good sixty minutes. I thought
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: the full pack fronted well. Later platform the attack and
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: the wake of Leo McDonald's.
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: Exit looked good.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: They used the ball, they broke down the South African defense,
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: got to their edges, created two nice tries for Caleb Clark.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: They did so many things right until they were that good,
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: until they weren't. And it was that last twenty minutes
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: where when the blow torch came on, when it really mattered,
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: they went away from what was working. They kicked too much,
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Their discipline went out the window and there's a real
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: focus now on the lack of impact from the bench.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: So they had that match in the palm of their hand.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: They probably should have been up by a lot more
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: and then they really wilted under the pressure from the box.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: And before you give me your reaction, I just want
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: you to also paint the scene because there's not many
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: people in New Zealand who would have experienced a Test
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: match at Alice Park. So paint the scene for us.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: What's it like, the atmosphere, the intensity of it, all
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: the towering stands. Take us into what that was like
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: for you.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's quite incredible. It's one of those stadiums that
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: you see on TV, you know, ninety five World Cup Final,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: in the ninety six series as well, and various other
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Test matches and in more recent times. But you look
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: at it and you walk out and it largely remains
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: the same you know from ninety five and certainly prior
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: to that. It's been read about sort of over time,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: but very much retains the character of an old rugby
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: ground and the stories that those stands could tell through
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: the gears would be pretty remarkable. Just an absolutely wonderful
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: sporting ambi theater and very very lucky to have been
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: on the ground and to commentate it for News Talk,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Their Beat and Gold Sport. It was so loud on
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Saturday afternoons, just that the sound is probably what will
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: live with me the most, you know, through the years,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: as I recall this Test match. It was loud from
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: the minute I sat down at the commentary booth, and
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: it was loud right until beyond the final whistle, but
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: especially that fifteen minutes or thereabouts towards kickoff. It really
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: really built to a crescendo around kickoff time and it
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: was definitely really We had the commentary gear on for
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: our broadcast and I couldn't really hear my co commentator
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: who was sitting next to me and our technical producer
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: back in Auckland was asking me to turn the sound
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: effects down. We get a feed of that from our
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: host broadcaster, our TV broadcaster, and I had to tell
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: them we actually haven't turned it on yet. It was
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: that loud. So it was an incredible theater And look
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: at the crowd went a little bit silent later in
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: the game as they all Blacks pulled out to that
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: ten point lead, but a boy when Quaga Smith and
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: then Grant Williams scored those tries. It's a cliche, but
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: very lucky that the place didn't have a roof. It
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: was absolutely just a wall of sound. And obviously there
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: was some other issues around the Harker, etc. But just
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: what a wonderful stadium and an event to be and
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: and I hopefully sort of translated on TV just how
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: special the event was.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: It felt like it was a few storylines just to
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: run a few reasons why it was special. The nineteen
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: ninety five World cut was sort of repeated with the flyover,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: which I know has been done previously as well, but
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: they sort of added the ninety five elements back in
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: they performed the World and Union i believe before kickoff,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: as well as also the thirty year anniversary of democracy
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: returning to South Africa. So yeah, there was all sorts
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: of elements to it, and I'm sure that came back
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: through hopefully in the rating and TV broadcast back home
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: in New zeal.
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: No, it's a fantastic atmosphere, Isn't nothing and World Rugby
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: quite compares to that sort of atmosphere and the intensity
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: and the noise, And you could you pointed out there
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: that the All Blacks actually took that cauldron head on, didn't.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: They silenced the crowd, They started so well, and they
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: had the Box reeling on the ropes and couldn't finish
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: it off. So when the Box put on that bomb squad,
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: that was a bit of a definitive turning point. But
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: for me, there was also some tactical elements that the
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: All Blacks got wrong. I think they kept twenty eight
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: times in that match and only got two back, and
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: they really just went away from what was working.
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: They went into their shell.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: They tried to protect the lead and that allowed that
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: Bomb Squad to really take it to them. That allowed
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: the Box to reignite that crowd and raw home to
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: the finish. So I think while the All Backs will
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: be pleased with a lot of things that they did,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: they'll be kicking themselves for the way that they finished
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: that match and their conservatism which actually allowed the Box
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: to finish over the top of them.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I completely agree. Look, if we go back to
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: the if we start maybe at the end of the
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: match first and foremost, before we dig into some of
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: the other stuff, I think they possibly just win to
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: their shelves a little too much at the end of
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: the game, went away from what had been working for them.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: That the kicking just didn't seem to stick in the
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: last twenty minutes. They made some poor decisions, conceded penalties.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Now that was a problem right throughout the game, but
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: they just failed to win the big moments in that
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: last twenty minutes. They seemed to have failed to Yeah,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: just direct the way they wanted to close out the game.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: And there was a chance with Daniel McKenzie had to
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: get out to thirty seventeen. They kicked to the corner,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: you know, which would have obviously gone if they'd managed
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: to score there. Beyond fourteen points, you know, change the
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: dynamic of the game again. But I think there was
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: a few perhaps I don't know it's conservative or just
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: decisions that they're probably certainly won back in the last
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: twenty I think that the bench issues an interesting one
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: because I think they're struggling to get impact there and
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: they haven't quite settled on it at any point in
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: the season. The bench has looked at its best when
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Boden Barrett has come off the bench and there was
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: two tests against England and sort of rescued your Blacks
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: in both of those test matches. Now he's back in
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: the starting side, I think, you know, Santa Penny Fee
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: now probably still failing to convince that test level, so
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: there's a question mark over his inclusion next week or
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: this week. Rather, I think the front row is fairly
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: set at the moment. I don't think you make too
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: many changes there. But I think there is a real
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: question about how you look to this aw Blacks bench
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: and compare it with the spring Box bench, and they've
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: got a whole lot more experience, a lot more apps
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: to bring on. But I think it's, like Liham, a
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: fundamental mind shift that maybe needs to be made around
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: New Zealand rugby supporters and the All Blacks as well.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Is that we've viewed as a starter's game. We've won
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: the start, you've been given the nod to start, but
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: South Africa have been well aheaded the game and making
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: it a full twenty three man game. And you would
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: argue that you know some of those roles, the bench
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: players player Malcolm Marx for example, a Quagga smith just
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: as if not more vital than the starting players. And
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: credit to Rassi Rasmus, he has been able to fashion
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you know Quagga and Malcolm Marx among others and go
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: back to go to them. All right, well your role
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: is not going to be a start, but your role
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: is very very crucial. We will play thirty or so
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: minutes at the back end and you can help us
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: win test matches. Now, they All Blacks simply don't have
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: that experience. But what Russy has been able to do
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: there is create depth in the bench and also expanded
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: that to a real twenty three man game. Bill Blacks
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: of times have had a strong bench in their history,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: they're not the way that Russia Raspus has sort of
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: developed it with the All Blacks at the moment both
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: sorry with the Springboks at the Monthent No.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: That's right in credit to the spring Box for the
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: way that they have developed that. It's a real point
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: of difference for them, isn't it. And it's nothing new.
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: They've been doing it for the best part of two
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: three years now, so it's not a surprise. You know
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: it's coming, but it's still incredibly difficult to counter. I
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: think for the All Blacks, you're right about a fundamental
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: mind shift because there's a lot to unpack when it
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: comes to the All Blacks bench and you go back
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: to twenty fifteen and it's probably been an erosion of
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: New Zealand ryby depth since then, which has had a
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: big impact on the players that are coming off the bench.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: You look at the weekend guys like Sam Darry Cortes, Ratima,
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: some Penny feeenwe I suffer armore. These guys that are
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: in single figure digits of test experience coming on in
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: the most intense atmosphere and world rug is extremely daunting.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: You know, expected to try and close out a test
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: that's in the balance is a huge task. So and
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks don't actually have that many avenues to
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: turn to to beef up that bench you mentioned Boden Barrett.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Potentially you could push him to the bench and look
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: to bring him on that way, but that would involve
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: potentially pushing Will Jordan to fall back, and I thought
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: he had a quiet test from the right wing. Didn't
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: look entirely comfortable there, and then that puts another spotlight
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: on the kicking game elsewhere. Maybe you could bring Josh
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: Lord back for Sam Darry, but he's short of a
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: gallop there, so is that really going to make a
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: huge difference? Dalton Papa le sounds like he's going to
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: be fit this week from an injured thumb, so he
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: will come back into the mix. Wallace a t T
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: another guy, And then the question is raised about do
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: you look at it six to two is the time
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: for the All Blacks to fight fire with fire here?
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: Can you afford to carry a guy like Mark Talah,
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: a specialist winger and bring him on for fourteen minutes?
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: How much impact is he really bringing when you compare
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: that to what the spring Box are getting? So is
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: that an avenue that the All Blacks need to explore?
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I think it's certainly with a conversation. I have gone
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: back and forth on it and I struggle to land
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: definitively on where I sit with it. I think it's
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: worth exploring, and we saw the only time I can
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: record in recent history the All Black's doing it is
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Ian Foster in the cutter eWays cut match at Twickenham
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: last year and they went six to two and then
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: the box ended up going seven to one through a
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: late change or maybe it was telegraphs. I don't know,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: but the All Blacks have sort of shied away from it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: But I think whether they've got the resources to warrant
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: putting six folds on the bench I think is still
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: the question, or whether you were just you know, robbing
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Peter to pay Paul essentially and you're just going to
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: end up with essentially another plaid. It's not going to
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: add much but just in the folds. So I think
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: there is a genuine question. I quite like the idea
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: of maybe having well a Satisi there alongside Semipenny fee
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: now late in the game with fresh legs coming on,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: that's definitely a possibility there, but then you're going to
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: obviously shorten the back line. I don't think they've quite
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: got that selection exactly right around you're putting Kalia on
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: the bench as yet give it. You can cover only
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: a couple of positions or one position really, and that's
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: either side of the park on the wing. So maybe
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: you do look back to a boat and Barrett to
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: cover the bench alongside a half back option and then
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: flood the bench. I'm interested to know Leam whether you
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: think that's something that the All Blacks would consider or
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: whether it's sort of a pipe dream.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Look, I think there's a wide ashe hear that the
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: All Blacks currently don't trust the bench. They're going to
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: them very late in the match, and that's partly due
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: to an experience, but it is hurting them because this
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: is not the first instance that we've seen the All
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Blacks not ka coons. In their last three tests, they
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: haven't scored a point I think beyond the fifty second
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: minute mark, and two of those were defeats, one against
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Argentine and now one against the spring Box. So this
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: is an ongoing concern for the All Blacks. The six
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: to two elements. I would like to see them try
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: it because there's so much versatility throughout that back line.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: You've got Damien McKenzie. You know, he can play first
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: five fallback, Boden Barrett likewise, Rikalwany has pushed out.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: To the wing.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Will Jordan can go to fallback. So there's so many
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: different interchangeable options there. Antonina Brown can play second and center.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: He's currently you know, on the bench, So I think
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: there's enough versatility in that back line to justify it.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: But I think the bigger question here is do the
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: All Blacks trust their bench? Are they they are not
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: backing these young guys to come on and actually improve
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: the platform that has been laid by the starters, and
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: the platform that was laid at Alice Park was brilliant
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: that the All Blacks were very, very good for sixty
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: odd minutes and it was that final quarter where they
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: blew it. So I don't think the All Blacks within
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: the squad have the capacity to match the box bomb squad.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: You've got Patrick two below two missing, Ethan the grout
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: and Sammasoni Takya who is out for the season. And
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: when you lose those experienced guys, you're digging further into
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: your depth profile. And so I think inexperience and a
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: lack of trust in the bench is actually a bigger
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: issue than the actual makeup of it.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I think so so, and maybe the as a minift
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: mindset shift in terms of do you convert a couple
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: of starters and go, actually, we need you in the
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: back thirty of the game, not in the front fifty
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: or so, because your experience and your ability is going
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: to be more valuable. Then, but how does that conversation go?
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: So all sorts of threads. That team will be announced
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: five o'clock Thursday afternoon, New Zealand time Land. A couple
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: other things that have sprung out from the game, and
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: some questionable refereeing. I think it's fair to say, you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: there's been various things raised around the truck and trailer
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: or the double banking. It's been called, I think in
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: the all Blacks first try, but the most egregious one
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: has to be the bond Gie and Banambi try, where
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: on review it appears he knocked it on the TMO.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: I still haven't heard actually whether he did get to
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: the ground on the weekend, because didn't interven in anything
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: on the weekend. It's very rare in world rugby matches
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: these days to not have a TMO intervention. So that
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: was a shocker and New Zealand Rugby and All Blacks
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: awaiting answers on that. But you know, you've got a
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: TMO for a reason, Liam, and those sort of decisions shouldn't.
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: Be missed, No, they shouldn't.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: We live in the age of invasive technology. You go
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: back to the World Cup and the frustrations around that tournament,
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: how much dead time there was, how involved the TMO was,
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: and I think the game has progressed since then. But
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: the technology is there for a reason. It's to stop
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: the shocker and the bonging Munumbi was a shocker that
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: should not be happening in the current age of rugby.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: He clearly lost the ball should never have been a try.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: But you also point out that the All Blacks opening
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: try through the wall, that was a clear obstruction that
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: shouldn't have been a try. So for me, those two
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: cancel each other out, and the other one that we
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: do need to tell much on as a Sam Kaine incident.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Uh you know, see, Polici went off with a fractured jaw,
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: so inspirational spring box Captain leaves the field won't be
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: available this week. There was no intervention at the time.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: To me, it looks like there was some high contact there,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: so I think Sam Kane's lucky to escape punishment. There's
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: been no citing, I don't think. I think that the
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: time in terms of of that has lapsed, so he
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: should be free to play this weekend. But there's another
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: incident that was that was overlooked. So I don't think
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: the all Backs can claim to be hard done by
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: on the basis when you take a step back and
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: look at it through an objective lens. But there are
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: a number of incidents in that game where the officiating
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: was poor, where they missed clear and obvious mistakes, and
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: you know, does he need to be repercussions for officials
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: in this regards When you know the players are in
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: the spotlight, they are.
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: Criticized or.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: Subjected to you know, judgment through selection, and there's repercussions
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: for them. So when we see this sort of mistakes
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: in the public eye, doesn't need to be repercussions for
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: these for sures.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Well, we can guarantee that we know accountability from World
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Rugby around this because they simply don't publicize any of
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: it around who's got refereeing appointments or why it's all
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: run out of their offices in Dublin or Joel Jute
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: and you don't really hear from him. You see the
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: appointments come through and that's that. I think the major
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: issue was it's twofold one Rugby simply got two technical
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Now this wasn't a technical decision that the TMO the
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: trime miss, but it is very, very technical and there's
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: part of the issue at the moment. There's so much
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: to look for a rugby field. Yeah, it's too much
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: for one referee. I will also say that I don't
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: think the quality of refereeing is as good as it's
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: been across the board with you know, lost Wayne Barnes
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: to retirement, Nigel Owens a few years ago obviously as well.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: It feels to me, you know, like around about a
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: decade ago, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, there were a lot
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: better referees coming through and refereeing test matches than there
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: are now. The game has changed a little bit, but
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: I just don't know that the quality of refereeing is there.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I think that was clear for all to see on
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: the weekend. I don't think Andrew Brace had a great
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: control over the game. He seemed out of his depth
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: at times and then wasn't assisted by his TMOS brother
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Shambalock all around. So yeah, I just don't know what
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: the answer is. That there's a bit of world rugby
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: that is fast tracking a lot of these referees to
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: the top grade. Now, whether that's because they believe in
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: them or they just don't have the quality referees you
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: know that they are. Can't have Luke Piers referring every
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: single test match, Rangers Guard referring every single Test match,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: or Beno Keif refereeing every single Test match. But I
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: think there is a real gap between those three I
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: named and the rest in the world at the moment.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: So that's that's one thing. Look, it didn't help on
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: the weekend, but I think it's almost an argument, to
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: be honest, to get rid of the TMO completely. I've
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: been the drum before. But if you're not going to invent,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: what's exactly the point in having it. We're still debating
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: these decisions two or three days on, and that was
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: with the TMO. So even without a TMO would still
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: be debating these decisions. The ref might even quarter on
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: the big screen because I'm not sure that the TMO
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: actually made it, as I said, to the ground. So
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: I think it's further argument that this has been the
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: whole TMO entirely. Well, I don't think the game needs it.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: I think it's a selling point to get rid of it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: They're talking about speeding the game up. The ultimate game.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Way to speed the game up is to get rid
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: of the TMO entirely. And a third point, I watched
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: that Sam Kaine again a few times. I think it
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: shouldered his shoulder first, and see if LA is also dipping,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: so I think they got right on the field. In
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: all honesty, you have seen that video posted on Twitter.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: What I would like to see Liam, honestly is sort
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: of a like you're just a ban on tweeting about
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: rugby games for about forty eight hours, But afterwards that
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: would be quite helpful I think for the universe there,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: but any think you would have wrapped on from what
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I've just unloaded.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: On you, the fear of its unpack there isn't there. Look,
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: I think if you're not going to use the TMO,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: get rid of it. But I think there was some
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: clear instances in that game where it would have been useful.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: I agree about Brace. I think he didn't have control
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: of that game. There was the breakdown was a bit
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: of a lottery throughout TJ. He penalized TJ, Peter and
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Aarra for yelling at him early when there was clear
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: frustrations around the box, just.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: Laying laying in the in the ruck.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I think these test matches, the All Black
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: and Spring Rocks, are going to be some of the
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: biggest of the year. So it comes down to appointments.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: Put your best referees in charge of the big tests.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: That's not rocket science, is it. So I think I'm
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: loath to, you know, talk about officials too much, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: it is a frustration in the wake of this test.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: And in terms of the tweeting about rugby.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: You can go through any number of incidents in a
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: rugby game and highlight something, can't you and spin it
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: your way. There's so many different moments in a match.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: But I did have a little bit of an insight
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: into the depths or the scope of South African rugby
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: Twitter because a tweeted about Bombie Mnumbie's try and not
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: being a try, and I tell you what, more power
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: to Ben Smith because there's some pretty angry people out
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: there in South African rugby Twitter, and they don't like
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: the truth being spoken and they certainly very one eyed
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: in their views.
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: So that was a bit of an eye opening experience.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: If you want to, I want to get slapped around
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: a wee bit, just tweet something about South African rugby.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: Maybe maybe Rusty you'll get on get on board as well.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, indeed it's funny because in real life it's the
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: loveliest people. But yeah, this on social media, it all
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: comes to a head. Believe anything else you want to
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: react with a bit more in the final four, but
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: anything else that stands out from that game on the weekend.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: As we build into the second test, your black's talking
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: about a big opportunity to go and do what they
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: couldn't on the weekend. But you know they're going to
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: have to lift a level, both in the first sixty
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: minutes but especially in that last twenty.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think a couple of points. It's an old
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: saying is that don't throw the baby out with the bath.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: Order of the all Blacks were very good for sixty minutes,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: and a couple of individuals in particular, I thought to
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Povi took another step up this year. He's had a
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: lot of responsibility in the wake of you know, Sam
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Whitelocke and Brady Metallic moving on injuries to Scott Barrett
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: who came back at the weekend, and I thought he
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: was exceptional again. A couple of breakdown penalties, he was
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: a strong presence at the lineouts and Cody Taylor's best
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: tests for a long time, ball carrying lineouts very influential there.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: So Jordi Barrett again had been very quiet this year.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: I thought he came to life strong, defensively, got that intercept.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: So look, there's so many Caleb Clark really nailed his
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: chance on the left wing, great in the air, great finishing.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: So there's so many good things for the All Blacks
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: to take away from that test. And that was the frustration,
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: wasn't it that they did so many things well and
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: then they ruined it, that they really did blow it.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: They let it slip, They went away from what was working.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: So if they can just hold that blueprints, find a
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: bit more composure and as we discussed, you know, work
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: on the element of the bench, which I'm not too
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: sure they are actually going to be to in the
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: space of a week. They should be confident because they
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: really went toe to toe with the world champions at
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: their spiritual home and had them on the rack.
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: I need to let it slop.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Indeed, right, let's take a break here and Rugby Direct
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: come back with the second half. A podcast after this.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Rugby Direct Howard Babies Talk.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Let's get into the final four here on Rugby Direct.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Let's change tech like Team New Zealand have been in
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: buffal on it. Let's go to Australia and Argentina. Firstly,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I'm in the final four. Look a good win for Australia.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: These are the kind of confidence boosting wins that Joe
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Schmidt will be I'm not sure if he's a fist pumper,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: but he'll be delighted about to get one of these
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: in early on in his tenure. And and Beata, who
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: are a very good team and tough team to beat
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: at home.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: I think where the All Blacks blew it, Australia came
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: up clutch, didn't they in a massive win in the
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: context of a side that's very much rebuilding. I saw
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: a stats that the Wallabies have had fifteen Test debuts
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: this year, which is the most in the Pro Era.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: So Joe has had a bit of time and space
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: to rebuild this team after the disaster of their World
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Cup and this was desperately needed. It didn't matter how
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: it came or in what fashion, but torrential rain.
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: In Laplutter.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: I think it was Argentina controlled led for much of
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: that game and the Wallabies came home late to sneak it.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: So a huge confidence boosting win for the Wallabies and
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: I think Harry Wilson captains that team another captain. It
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: seems to be on a bit of a rotational basis
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: for the Wallabies, but just so needed, wasn't it in
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: the context of where the Wallabies are at.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: Indeed, it was so good news for Harry Wilson one
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: hundred percent recorders Wallaby's captain and look as were touched
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: on tricky plays to play. They have to do it
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: again this week and that's the test for jud Schmidt
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: as Wellaby side, is to keep building it up. I
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: thought there were some positive science because I thought, you know,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: tendel down that could go horribly wrung for them, but
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: instead they've ended up with a confidence boosting. When topic
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: two we touched on us a little bit. First up,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: where should the All Blacks make changes? If we leave
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: beside the bench for a start, can you see any
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: changes to the run on team.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: The only one potentially would be Golden Populi coming back
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: into the starting sides, and it was not through anything
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: any fault of Sam Kane. I thought he was good,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: very strong defensively, as he always is. But if you're
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: just looking at their makeup of that bench and the
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: need to bring on some experience, potentially you could bring
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Dalton into start, inject some fresh legs. Sam might be
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: a bit fatigued, and then he could come on later
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: in the piece. Other than that, it's hard to see
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: too many shifts. I think the front row will remain intact,
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: same with the locks. The All Blacks are very happy
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: with the way Ethan Blackhead is going at six. We've
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: spoken about the need for more ball carrying punch, but
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: I don't see them making any dramatic shifts there, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: the same throughout the back line. There's a discussion to
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: be had about first five fallback, as there is every week,
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: but I just can't see the making many major changes now.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: I'm with you there. I think it's going to be
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: rivingly straightforward. Maybe a tweak to the bench here and there,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: but I think that's an old adage and similar to
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: what they did coming out of Argentina and Wellington into Auckland.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Trust those players to get it right second time around.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Topic three now the South African Rugby to New Zealand
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: Rugby with the hukker being drowned out by the pyrotechnics
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: and music, I look seems like a very legitimate apology
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: and human error and these those things I can vouch.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: The fact it was incredibly loud there on the weekend.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: It sounds like the operator I thought the hucker had
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: finished because of the crowd cheering, but I think it
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: was because the plane was roaring in on the A
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: three eighty. So it just sounds like a bit of
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: a mess all around. But from my mind, I think
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: doesn't need to be made any more of it. They've
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: apologized and let's move on.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a bit of a non event for me, Elliott.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: I think the hucker is and should be more about
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: who's performing it than anyone else. I understands the custom
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: and the culture around it and their respect. I don't
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: think there was anything meant by I think it was
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: a genuine timing issue with the plane flying over pre
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: kickoff and like you say that the person at the
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: ground controlling the music don't play the music when the
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: hawk is on. That is disrespectful, but a bit of
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: a non event move on didn't have any bearing on
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: the match.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Indeed, and I've tried to put this final topic in
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: the final four off for as long as it possibly can.
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: Here we go to discuss.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, my Canterbury side lost to Wellington on the weekend.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: Now I didn't see it as scaric of it, so
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: I was at wrong end of the day for me.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I think it was about one am or something in
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: the morning, so unfortunately didn't see it. But judging by
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: the score line, I didn't miss much. And of course
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Land we had a bet on the line for this
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Canterbury match against Suwall Wellington, your beloved.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Lions, we do.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: I can tell you that the Lions roared Elliott's They're
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: up thirty one hour at halftime and then good you know,
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: we felt quite bad for the Red and Blacks and
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: wrung you were I think it was, and to let
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: them back in to make the score but a little
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: bit more respectable. But what I can tell you, my friend,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: is when you arrive home, I'll give you, you know,
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: maybe a day or so to shake off the jet leg.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: And then Wellington Rugby have actually been kind enough to
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: send that they're going to send us a jersey for
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: you to to dom. I've organized that, I've gone out
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: of my way. They've come to the party. I'm very
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: happy to tell you that Rugby direct listeners. It's actually
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: assigned jersey from this year's squad. So you're you're held
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: in higher esteem. And Wellington, I can tell you, and
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: they were very obliging, so is a real I know
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: they a little bit of a come down coming home
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: from from South Africa, but you'll have that to look
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: forward too.
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: So maybe I can play the team song you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: well who well who ah well who well who? You know?
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Just really set some ambience for you when you come home.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: That's just something to look forward to. Maybe I could
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: even lay it on your pillow just to really set
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: the scene.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: It would be special. That would be special. I look
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: forward to wearing that in the office. I'm sure we
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: can get a picture for our beloved Rugby direct listeners.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: You've done exceptionally well. Wellington Rugby is an exceptionally well
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: to arrange that, so well done you on that front.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I wish I could say I look forward to dotting it,
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: but I don't, but thank you nonetheless. And look the
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: other thing I was just want to ad before we
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: wrap up Auckland again windless in the NPC. On another notement, Failey,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: this powerhouse province really battling early on in the NPC,
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: and they've played some big teams as well, so things
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: are not going their way.
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: They're not.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: It's Auckland's worst run in an NPC history officially now
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: I think it's zero to five going back to last
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: year because they lost last year semi and they have
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: North Harbor this week Battle of the Bridge traditional fixture
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: and North Harbor are a very decent team. Auckland's making
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: a number of mistakes making life hard for themselves. They've lost,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: you know, a number of first fives. I've got a
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: guy who played in New Zealand schools last year, but
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: no excuses. It's a powerhouse province with a lot of
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: debt and they are in a serious hole. So some
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: massive work ahead of them to dig themselves out of that.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: There is plenty of work for them to do, that
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: is for sure. Liam. Thank you as always for jumping
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: on and drug by Director. We'll be back at some
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: point next week once I navigate, you know, a million
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: hours around the globe to get back home, and look
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: forward to to jumping on then and discussing the latest
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: in the world of rugby. And we'll catch you next time.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: We'll catch you back home and I look forward to
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: that Wellington Juwsey being on my pilot.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: It will well enjoy Table Mountain, Camps Bay and everything
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: that the great city of Cape Town has to offer
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: and it should be a brilliant another brilliant rematch this week.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Indeed, Jamie wall is trying to get me on the
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: clippies and coke. Google it if you don't know what
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: that is, but it sounds like a hell of a dream.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: We will be back next week on Rugby Direct our
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: thanks to Lars and Bars English and I Thinks as
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: a ways to access solutions elevating you and your business.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: To a higher level.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk st B, listen live on air
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,