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SOS with Divorce Coach Samantha Boss · Pursuit of Sassiness

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hi everyone, thanks for coming back for another episode of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: my podcast, Pursuit of Sassiness. I have been very open
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: about my life coach and how he's helped me, and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: today I'm joined by a different kind of life coach,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: one who specializes in divorce and high conflict co parenting.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: You may come across her advice clips on TikTok I did.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: She has a podcast called Divorce with Sam and Leah,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and she just so happens to be a fan of
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the Valley, so I couldn't wait to chat with her.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Welcome Divorce Coach. Samantha. Hi, Samantha, Hi, I'm a show.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I have to be honest. I just binge watched all
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: of the after shows.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, I you're ahead of me because I've seen all
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of the episodes, but I actually haven't seen the after
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: shows yet. I just have seen like the little clips
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: on Instagram.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Ah, I have so much I want to say. I'm good.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I just got down to my beach house and it's
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: really crappy weather and it just started thunderstorming. So I'm
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: hoping that it's not on camera, but yeah, I'm excited.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: You always look good and white. You're always in white.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: On the show. I noticed because I again, I just
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: watched all of the episodes all like in the past
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: couple of days.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I have my go to outfit. It's just
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a white T shirt and jeans. It just I tell you,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: for everything.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: You don't have to think when you do that exactly,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: you just know. It's like a uniform. I just got
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: my color analysis done a couple months ago, and when
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: I found out, it was a life changing experience because
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: then I think as women, especially single moms, you just
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: like know what to grab when you go shop, and
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: you know what colors to look for, you know what
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: looks good on you. I highly recommend it for everyone
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: to go get their color. And this is not mine,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: but again I didn't have any clothes down here, but yeah,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: getting your color analysis done. But yes, I just watched
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: all the shows. I just I love that you have
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: gave me this opportunity to come on. I'm super excited
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: to talk about divorce and co parenting and all the
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: things me too.
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  Speaker 1: So I just kind of binge your TikTok and I
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: found them very helpful and fascinating. I wish I had
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: known about it a year ago. That was very helpful
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: for me. So I want to start, first off, tell
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: us how long you've been helping couples through divorce and
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: how did all of that happen.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I was a teacher for first like I taught
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: high school driver's ed in health and pe and I
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: got divorced from my husband, my first husband, and it
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: was I thought it was going to be so simple,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: and a lot of you know you on the show
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: was me. I was just like, why can't this be easier,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Why can't this just be simple? Like you and I
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: both know that we don't like each other, Like let's
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: just move on, you know, like drop the hatchet and
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: just like move on and progress. And it didn't go
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: that way. A lot of resistance from him, a lot
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: of like pointing fingers, and it drug our court case
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: out and it made it really, really ugly, which made
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: it ugly for the kids. My kids were one and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: three at the time, and they're now twenty one and nineteen,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: so they've had their whole lives being divorced kids. But
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: it was a really ugly divorce and it took a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: toll on me. I was emotionally disregulated through most of it.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I made a lot of bad choices, just so distracted
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: with the co parenting journey. And I was really educated,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I was really smart. I came from a good family.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, what is it about me that's making
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: this so difficult? Like is it him? Is it me?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Is it us? Is it the system? Like what is
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: It's so ugly? And I kept asking my mom like
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: why me? Like why does this? I see my friends
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: get divorced, you know their ex husbands aren't like mine,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Like what is going on? And it was just a
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: slow learning curve for me, like figuring out that it
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: was partly me, but it was a lot of his
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: personality that I just was refusing to accept. And I
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: met my now husband as I, you know, was on
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: my healing journey, and he said, you know, you really
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: need to teach people about divorce. So I just started
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: doing mediation at first, and I didn't I found that
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  Speaker 2: joyful because I was helping people like come together, but
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  Speaker 2: it wasn't my story because I didn't come together with
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: my ex husband and do anything amicably. So I wasn't
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: really living like my authentic self. So then when I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: started helping one client at a time and being their
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: divorce coach, it was like all things just aligned, and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I felt really good because I was able to help
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  Speaker 2: my former self and give my former self all those
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  Speaker 2: tools that I, you know, give my clients of figuring out.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes it is you that you need to
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: adjust because you got to accept who you're dealing with.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: And that's the big thing, is just really accepting. And
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: so as I went through my journey and my now husband,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: we had two more kids, so I have four kids
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and getting ready to do it with somebody who actually
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: loves me and respects me. It's a completely different feeling
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: than being in a loveless marriage it's just toxic, and
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: then going through a coprinting journey that's even worse than
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: the marriage.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I love that that resonates with me a lot, I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: feel like, right right absolutely kind of explain what a
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: divorce coach is.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a divorce coach is pretty much. I mean, if
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I had my pick for everybody that's going through a divorce,
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  Speaker 2: especially if you haven't like even a small thought that
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: it's going to be high conflict, and it can get
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: high conflict the beginning, middle or six years from now,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: but if you think it's going to be high conflict.
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  Speaker 2: A divorce coach is somebody that's going to listen to you,
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  Speaker 2: validate you, give you strategy and direction, and really cut
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: your cost down with your attorney and be that person
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that says, you know, hey, your attorney doesn't have a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: lot of time to talk to you, so what are
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: all your questions? And then that divorce coach can type
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  Speaker 2: up the questions in bullet form, kind of talk you
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: off the ledge of the emotional stuff and really just
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: take the stuff that really needs to be done by
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  Speaker 2: attorneys to the attorney. So the divorce coach is kind
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: of like your best friend going through the whole process.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Somebody that's going to be educated about the system. Can't
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: give you legal advice, but can give you strategy, Like
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I said, the strategy and just the no have of
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: like here's an option. Have you thought of this? What
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: about this boundary? Can we possibly try this instead of
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: what you're doing isn't really working with your ex? Maybe
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: we need to try something new interesting.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Someone who's watched the valley and you obviously see that
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we're going through a divorce, what is some advice you
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: would give to me to.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: You personally, I would say your expectations are not Jesse's
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: on how you think co parenting should go, how you
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: think that you should treat each other, and things that
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: you should probably discuss in front of Isabella. I think
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: both of you have different expectations, but I think what
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: you both need to realize is you need to start
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: expecting the same behaviors that you guys have probably showcased
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: the whole time you were married. You know, nobody's gonna
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: change when they get divorced. They're actually gonna become worse
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: because there's always one person, if not both. That kind
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: of wants some validation on you're the reason this broke up.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: You're the reason this is a problem. Everybody likes to
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: fingerpoint and they want other people to agree that that's
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the problem. That's the problem. But I think too many
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: times in co parenting we're expecting our own behavior out
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: of our ex Well, I wouldn't talk about you to
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: our child, so you shouldn't do that. And I can
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: guarantee most people are talking mad to their children about
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: their other co parent. And so I think it's a
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: matter of lowering your expectations, I mean, gut or level,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: lower your expectations of that other co parent, but start
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: expecting the same pattern of behavior that you see over
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: and over and over again and become less shocked by it.
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  Speaker 2: Less Oh my god, I can't believe, you know, my
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: ex did this, But more so, watch the pattern and
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  Speaker 2: then start preparing yourself to accept the pattern so that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: it doesn't influence you as a parent.
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  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 2: I think that was my biggest problem. I kept going,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I can't believe my ex said that
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: to my kids. I can't believe my ex said that
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: to the community, to the bank teller at the bank,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: like what the hell? And then I would be so
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: rattled that I would come home and be a dysregulated
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  Speaker 2: parent because I'm so bothered by like the audacity, like
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  Speaker 2: the nerve, are you kidding me? And then I'm just
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: this triggered mom at home, like I'm so go play,
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  Speaker 2: just go, like I need to think or I need
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: to do that, you know. And I was pushing my
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: children away or being out, you know, really loud with
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: them because I was just emotionally disregulated. But he loved
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: to have me there because then I was being mean,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: being mean to my child, my children, because I was
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: so just like oh, frustrated that then he would be like, oh,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: his mom mean to you? Well, I mean, yeah, she
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: does yell at us a little bit. Yeah, So he
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: knew that I would fall into the pattern every single
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: time until I learned boundaries self control. Just because things
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: happen to me or get said about me, it doesn't
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: mean it has to affect me. I mean, that's other
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: people's opinion. We all know we shouldn't give it about that, right,
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  Speaker 2: But he was trying to get me bothered with my children,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: and it worked for eight years. I was totally oblivious
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: to how to fix it. Totally oblivious. So in a nutshell,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: that's what I would say. I think you need to
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: lower your expectations, and I think you need to start
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: expecting behaviors that you've witnessed not once, not twice, but
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: just in a show that's only a few minutes of
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: your life I could see ten times again, you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: start expecting those behaviors.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: That is so interesting because I wish I knew that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: before and I am just now learning how to navigate
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: and deal with that because I was very frustrated, like, yeah,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: obviously this is to me, it's common sense. You do
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: these things, you don't do these things. And I was
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: just like, hello, we want what's best for our daughter.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And it's just a cycle of exactly what you said.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just repeats itself. And when you but you
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: have to realize, like when you, anybody gets a divorce,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you know, ends a marriage, makes that decision, we don't
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: jump straight to healthy co parenting. There is a middle
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: ground of uneasiness, relearning things, figuring out. You know, we
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: are not a team anymore. We're separate people, but yet
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: we do have a child together, so we want to
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: be on the same team. But yet I don't like you,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: so I don't want to be on your There's just
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of learning curve. You know, you guys chose
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: to do it on TV. I give you credit for that,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: where most people are struggling in the privacy of their
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: own homes, you know. So I'm watching it and I'm
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I know all these things. You know, how you reacted
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: in certain moments, and how he you know, went over
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: the top in certain moments. You guys were showcasing that
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: middle phase on national.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Television exactly, and it's so wild and now watching it back,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that is one of the hardest things
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: anybody has to go through in life, like a nasty
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: divorce and then let alone just at a layer of
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: showcasing it on national television.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, a divorce is one thing, it's like death.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: But then when you throw children in the mix as well.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: You know, anybody can get divorced and fight over money,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: but when you have a child, especially a very young
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: only child, right to deal with and you're doing it
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: on national television, I mean to give you guys credit
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: for doing it. When you're in the hurt phase, you
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: say things that maybe your ten years away self won't say,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: or your six years of self you know a way
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: won't say. But you guys showed that. And that's what
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: everybody that's listening that's going through a divorce and co parenting.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: It's not as easy as just like I want my
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: marriage to end and I want to be a single,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: happy co parent. There is this The middle phase could
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: be six months to a year or two. For me,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: it was eight years of figuring out what does this
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: look like now that I'm a single parent and I'm
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: dealing with somebody that hates me. A lot that is
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: very upset, is very bitter, is very angry, has not
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: worked through anything in their past or their present, giving
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: a facade that they have. You know, wants me to
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: be the bad guy, and that's fine in his story.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I sure, I'm sure I am the worst enemy and
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: the worst person in his story. But in reality, I'm
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: living it every single day.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. You're like speaking my mind. You're
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: seeing it out loud.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: So what is the biggest mistake you see people making
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: when it comes to co parenting.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I think one of the longest, long term mistakes that
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: people make. There's two, and I would say the first
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: one has to deal with children, is giving your narrative
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: to children prematurely before their age appropriate. And I'm talking
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: age appropriate is like twenties and thirty year olds. That's
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: when you start telling your kids, maybe about your marriage,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: maybe about the past. I see too many co parents
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: start off small and they say casual, little burner sentences
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: in front of their children that they think are just
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: funny or or sarcastic or condescending a little bit in
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: front of their children. Maybe it's just an earshot. Kids
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: over playing in the corner, somebody comes over and somebody
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: asks about the divorce, asked about co parenting. That parent
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: looks over, sees the child is busy, distracted playing and
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: they start casually bashing on the parent in front of
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the child. Then slowly but sure. Maybe it's a conversation
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: where it's right before drop off and pick up, and
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: there's something that's said to the child like, oh, you
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: better make sure mom buys you shoes because I pay
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: her enough in child support, so I'm not buying little
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: subtle things where the child is listening negatively about the
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: other parent. So one parent doesn't have a filter, doesn't
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: have any you know, brains to just not talk about
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: the other parent. I see this happen all the time
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: with kids of parents just talk about each other to
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the children or in front of the children, and the
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: children are absorbing that and they internalize that my children
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: are proof and product of that. And then the second
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: mistake I would say that most co parents make is
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: they just don't have boundaries with the other co parent,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: and they feel like that they allow that parent to
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: come into their life too much, come into their home
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: as a single parent make decisions because you know, I
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: for a long time felt like, well I have to
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: do that was my ex husband's going to get mad,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: He's going to take me to court again. I have
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to do that. Otherwise he's going to tell the kids
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: that I'm a bad parent. I have to do that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Like he got to parent my children in my home
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: without even being there because I was so scared of him.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I was scared of disappointing him, scared of making a
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: mad scared of what he would tell the whole friack
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: in town because he ran his mouth all over the time,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: and so I was didn't have any boundaries with I
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: had the right to do what I wanted to do,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and he can do what he wants to do. And
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: coparing just isn't for everybody. Coparating is a very small percentage.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Most of us are counterparenting or just parallel parenting in
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: our own home. And I do what I want with
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: my children, and he does what he wants with the
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: children during his time, and we don't mix. We don't
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: mix at all. And that's why a good parenting plan
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: is really essential.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Well, something that I will say about myself if is
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: that I've done a really good job because I do
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: think of my daughter, and I do think even though
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: there are moments that I hate him and can't stand him.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: If she asked me a question, no matter what the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: question is about her dad, I say nothing but positive
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: things about him, and I will never say anything negative
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: or make her aware of our situation. That was just
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: really important to me.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I would advise this. I would advise neutral or nothing.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: So instead instead of giving falsees because I was the
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: falsehood girl mom too for eight years, you know, I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: would be like, Oh, Dad loves you, Oh Dad's this,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: you know, Let's send a picture to Dad. I was
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: his number one promoter, number one. Nobody could beat me
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: at promoting this guy, except for maybe his own mother.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And so I'm over here promoting him to my children.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: He's the greatest. Let's send a picture. He cares about you,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: he loves you. Dad loves you Dad. And here's where
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: our therapists, because we had a lot of therapy throughout
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: this whole journey. My therapist was like, you're promoting a
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: man that does nothing but bash on you to those
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: same children. You are go Dad, and he's over there
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: like mom to those same kids. So they're very confused
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: as to why are you promoting a man that hates
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: your guts? And those are the words that my nine
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: year old said to me eventually at one time, and
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: it all kind of made sense. And my therapist was like,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: do me a favor. Just stay neutral. Uh huh, sounds
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: great or nothing but to promote falsely. And this is
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a term that a lot of co parents use. Great dad,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: horrible husband, great dad, horrible co parent. I'm sorry, you
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: can't be a great dad. If you're bashing on the
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: other parent of that child, you're not. You're not a
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: good dad. If you're willing to throw the mother of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that child under the bus the first chance you get
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: because to be a dad.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: And that's why I always say I'm the mother of
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: your child, because I.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Agree with that. But it's not clicking with somebody like that.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: It's not clicking with anybody who has an ego issue
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: or a personality trait that doesn't allow them to empathize
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: with that key word, mother of my child. Loyalty. You
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: broke the loyalty. You divorced him. He's done. He will
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: never be loyal to you. And that fact does not
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: matter to him. It matters to you. He's the father
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: of your child. My ex husband. As much as I
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: don't like the man, I never bashed on him either,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: because I didn't need to. I knew two things. Number One,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: he was never going away, but number two, they were
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: going to figure it out soon enough. I didn't need
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to say anything, so I kept my mouth shut. And
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: that was under the advice of a really great therapist
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: that I had when I first started. And I think
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: it's just this concept that we have to get away
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: from promoting someone that isn't promoting us. So we just
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: need to lay low and just be neutral, and we
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: always need to be the truth teller, always the truth teller.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Because here's the big picture in all of this. The
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: only thing that ever matters in a divorce and coparating
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: journey with children, the only thing that matters is your
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: relationship with Isabelle. That's it lifelong. That relationship is going
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: to go on for how many more years? Forty to fifty? Yeah,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and what you say and do now impacts that forty
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: or fifty years. My daughter's downstairs right now, she's nineteen
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: years old, home from college. We're going to have the
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: best summer we've ever had. We're going to concerts on
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the beach, like it's going to be amazing. Why because
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I cut my head down. I kept my mouth shut.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I didn't say anything about her dad, and she figured
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: it out all on her own and made her decision
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: of who she wanted to be around for the rest
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of her adult life. That was her choice because I
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: kept my mouth shut. That's why I say I think
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: too many people try to get their children to figure
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: it out too early, and then there's going to be
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: some resentment or there's it's going to be a why
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: were you so nice to somebody that mistreated you, which
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: is what I did, and it later produces people pleasing children,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: which can be very problematic, very problematic. So I would
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: just advise, like, I'm all for the positivity, but just
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: make sure it's genuine, because she's gonna be able to
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: smell a mile away pretty soon. Yeah, and she'll be like,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: that's funny. He doesn't say anything nice about you, And
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he does or not because we're
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: not in his home. But we just need to be
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: neutral or nothing. Uh huh, yep, your dad neutral or nothing.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: But we don't bash because it's not worth it. We
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: don't have to.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have to. Well, that helps me because
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I was very positive or I am very positive. But
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I like what you're saying and it makes perfect sense.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And here's the other thing. Stop and really listen, and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: this is a test. And my therapist again, kudos to
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: my therapist, bar She was amazing. She was my child
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: psychologist for my kids. She helped me every step of
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: the way because she knew what I was dealing with.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: She said this, She goes, try to take a whole week,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: never mentioned dad, do not be the one. Then initiates
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: dad's name, and see how the child actually brings it
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: up when they're home with you, and you will be
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: surprised when she's with you she could possibly not bring
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: up Dad. Very often, you're the one inserting because of
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: your insecurities that you have a divorce kid, and you
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: feel bad, so you want to make sure that you're
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: not the problem. You want to make sure you're promoting
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: her well. You want to make sure she feels that
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: you're not the issue. So sometimes we over insert the
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: person when in reality, here's what my kids were telling
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: the therapist. We just want to break from dad, and
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: mom keeps bringing him up, Mom keeps promoting him, Mom
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: keeps talking about him, Mom keeps telling us to call
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: him and draw him pictures and all take it to
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: daddy's house. You know, all this. We just want to
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: break from that whole mom dad thing. When we're with her,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: we want to be with her. When we're with him,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: we want to be with him. But we know he'll
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: never stop talking about her and obsessing with what she's
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: doing and who she's with and how much money she
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: spends and all this things. But when were with her,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: can we just like have peace? Please? And again, I
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: never thought of it from that perspective because I wanted
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: them to see I'm not like him. I don't bash
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: on him. But they were just like, we want to
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: break from all the just drama.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tried my best to do that. And
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: that's why, you know, it is hard to navigate being
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: on TV and doing that, because it's like there are
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: moments where I'm quiet and I keep to myself because
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I'm still in the back of my mind thinking of
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: my daughter.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she'll watch it and so you know when she's
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: older and you know everything anybody going through divorce and
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I see this on TikTok a lot, in social media
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: sites and reels where people are putting their stuff out there.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: About the other parent. Your kids will grow up and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: they will watch all of this stuff eventually. I mean,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to see mine, you'd have to actually like pull out
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a file and go read it. I mean, I'm forty six,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: so nothing is like digitalized, you know from my case,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: thank goodness, But it's this you can really do have
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: to be mindful that everything's out there everywhere. I mean,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: everything that Jesse has said is out there forever, you know,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and it will never go away. And again it's that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: ego of like being hurt speaks before what your child,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: remembering what your child will hear, So.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: You think he's still hurt.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I think. I think most anybody that does doesn't have
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: closure or a good support system or good background on
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: dealing with emotions in a positive way, stay hurt for
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: a long time, and they will use that hurt as
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the excuse to lash out, yeah, instead of just admitting
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that their feelings are hurt or instead of you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I think I think personally, I think he's after a win.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: He wants to hear you say you cheated. He wants
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to hear you say you're the reason he wants to hear.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: And my business partner, Iiah we run a membership group
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: for moms. We could give it who cheated, and I'm
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: not saying you did, But when it comes to cheating,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: we hear our clients all the time like, but he's
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: the one that cheated and she's the one that cheated,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: and we're like, who cares? The marriage failed way before
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: that cheat happened. The marriage was crumbling way before that happened.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So why are you so gung ho on that? Why
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: don't you really look at maybe how you participated in
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: why the marriage failed. Why did you emotionally detach? Why
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: did you physically detached? Why did you financially hide things?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Like there was a lot more going on before that moment,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: But people that have you know, troubled childhoods or trauma
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: from past, you know, other relationships, hold on to that
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: moment that's visual instead of all the little moments that
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: happened behind the scenes. Yeah, it's personality differences, and I
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: think that's what you need to remember into co parenting
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: in anybody. The personality you married is not who you divorce,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: or it's just a worse version of them, and you
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: can't the divorce isn't going to cure their personality or
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: get you away from it, you are still going to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: have to deal with that type of personality. And I'm
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: not saying Jesse's personality is wrong, but it's a wrong
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: fit for you. And so it didn't work out. You know,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: another woman may want him to be that way and
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: that extravagant and that lead and that you know, over
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: the top kind of personality. I would run from that,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: and you ran from that, right, So I mean, he's
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: gonna find his person But that doesn't mean you're a
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: good fit, you know, But in co parenting, that personality
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: did not change. Yeah, did not change at all.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And I've heard you talk a lot about boundaries. For me,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I was I had so much anxiety because it was
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: just so much text and back in fourth and I
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: didn't even understand which is such an easy concept to
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: have boundaries, Like what do you advise like.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I'm all for the amicable divorce. I'm all for the
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: people that can put their bitterness aside, their feelings aside,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: and go, you know what we're gonna do. This is
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the kitchen table. We're gonna pay a two hundred dollar
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: fee and we're gonna be divorced smorrow. I give those
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: people credit. I also think they should go buy a
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: lottery ticket because it's a very small percentage of people.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So many people think that they will be able to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: explain and the other person will receive and a goal
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: will be hit. Yeah, and I think the quicker we
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: can implement. There's such great tools out there now. You know,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: you have all kinds of parenting apps to kind of
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: get you off of your phones and more into an
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: app where everything is documented. Lawyers can read it, judges
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: can read it. I think that's a first step. We
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: also have to realize we're in that retraining period. We
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: were married and we're not single yet. We're retraining them
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: on what our tolerance level is, what we will allow,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: what we won't allow, and the only thing they know
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: is what worked before in the marriage. If I if
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I text enough, if I threaten enough, if I you know, pout,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: if I withdraw, she'll come back and she'll she'll give
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: me the answer that I want, or she'll engage with me,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you know. And I think when we get to that
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: heightened experience and they'll throw something a about the kids.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: You know, we work real hard and we're like, I'm
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: not texting back, I'm not texting back I'm not. I'm not,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: and then they throw something in like we're a bad mom,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: or you won't let me talk to the child, or
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I can't believe you're doing this. Isabelle, You're like, oh no,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: that's not even the reason. Then what we do We
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: start texting back and forth to explain that's not the reason,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: here's the reason. But to them, that's kryptonite. All they
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: wanted was a response from us. They don't care if
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: it's positive or negative. They just want the engagement. And
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: so again it's that retraining period, not only for them
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: but for us that we have to be okay with
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: letting them think whatever they want to think. As long
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: as I know my child is okay, I'm going to
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: implement a whole bunch of boundaries. If my child is
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: with me, I don't need to answer the phone. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: even if my child is with them, the only thing
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I'm responding back to is a health concern or a
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: transportation issue. If it's anything other than that, I'm not responding.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I'm training them. My business hours for co pairing starts
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: again tomorrow at eight am. That's it. So if they
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: text me at nine to seven, I'm not responding my
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: business hours ended at five unless it's an emergency. But
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: if it's only about you know, transportation or health, those
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: are the only reasons I respond back. That's it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: But it's what if one parent does not want to
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: use the apps and the other.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Got to get it court ordered. Or you can do
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: the same thing in your text messages, you know, the
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: same thing. You can just say, even if it's on text.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: You can just say, hey, look, I have co parenting
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: hours from eight am to five unless it falls under
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: these two categories. And then it's up to my discretion
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: whether I text back or not. And again when when
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I don't respond back, I get sixteen more messages you
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: know whatever. I'm just documenting. I'm documenting, documenting, documenting, And
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if we're probably gonna
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: have to come back to court again if we don't
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: have a very good parenting plan, and when I do,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, Judge, you know that parenting app that
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I asked for last time? You denied us because he
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: didn't want to do it. Can you court order it now?
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Because I have a stat sheet that says in the
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: past thirty days he has text messaged me seventy three
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: times at at one point, fourteen of them came in
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: a row. This is ridiculous and impacting my parenting time
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: with my child. I would like to switch to an
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: app so then you'll just have to show that it's
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: worthy to have. But again, I think the apps are
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: really critical for boundaries. But I think the boundary everybody
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: needs to realize isn't me telling my ex to not
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: come in my house or not call me, or you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: not say things around my children. It's if you do
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: this behavior, here's what I will do in response. That's it.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: You have to tell them. You know, if you text
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: me two more times or again after five o'clock, I
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: will not respond, and that's it. And you got to
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: hold that. I don't care what firing off text message
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: comes after that that threatening tone. You know, do what
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: you gotta do, is my comment to my ex Usman,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna take you to court. Do what you gotta do,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: but you're not gonna get me after seven o'clock. Sorry,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I know you want me, but you're not gonna get me.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: You know, you have to realize always think from their
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: perspective too, and I think too many of us we
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: get so caught up, and I would never do that.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I would ever do that. Take that hat off for
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: a second, put his hat on. What childhood did he
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: go through, what's his parents experience, what divorces has he watched?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Who are his friends? What is his work environment? And
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: then put that hat on and go, Okay, he might
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: be bothered by six other things right now. And that's
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: why I'm getting this version of him. It's not always you,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: it's sometimes just their environment or their background.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really learned the hard way because everybody does.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Everybody does, and I did too, eight year sister doing
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: it all wrong. And that's why I'm good at it
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: now because I've been in those shoes. Now. The only
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: thing you can do is a couple of things. Number One,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: adjust implement new boundaries. Moving forward, You're not going to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: get all of me anymore. You're going to get the
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: times that I want to give it to you. You're
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: going to give those sentences I'm gonna give you, know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Gray Rock, whatever you want to do. The other thing
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: is just pass it along. You say, hey, I've been you.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I've wanted to send that text, I've wanted to respond back.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I've wanted to meet at the kitchen table. Just don't
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: do it. I've you already hired an attorney. Have the
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: attorney do it. You were like, you know, he keeps
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: calling my lawyer, and it's costing me more and more money.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: They know that people like this, and I'm not saying
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Jesse specifically, but anybody that's of high conflict would rather
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: give all the money to the attorneys and waste it
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: all than to know that you're gonna walk away with
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: a dime. I see all my clients who get high
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: attorney bills because their ex keeps calling and sending their
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: attorney over to their attorney, and it just racks up
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: a bill, racks up two hundred three hundred thousand dollars
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: divorces just so the ex wife doesn't get anything.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I know. And at the end, that's just taking away
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: from I.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Don't see it that way. They don't see it that way.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: They see you winning. It's not about the kid. They're
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: incapable of looking at anything from a child's perspective, and
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I dare say that most of them no one looked
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: at their perspective when they were a child, and so
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: they're following a pattern. And I don't know Jesse's history.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist. I'm not saying this happened to
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: him or anything. But a lot of people that don't
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: look from a child's perspective, we're also the child that
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: never got attention the way they should have got attention
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: as a child, and so they're not even bothered by
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: it that they don't see it that way at all. Yeah,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: So patterns repeat themselves, no matter how smart weak can
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: we see the pattern? Watch the pattern and no, I
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: mean it's like clockwork with the moon. You'll see the
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: same pattern show up every month, like clockwork. And that's
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: why again, I recommend the Bingo card, I recommend having
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: divorce coaches. I recommend just getting ahead of it, watch
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the pattern and accept this pattern's going to show up again.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: But how am I going to respond to this pattern?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I've had to change and I'm now a better
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: person and I feel much better and I'm not feeling
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: peace anymore, way more peace than eight months ago, because
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just not allowing any of that right.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: And you're the only one that can control that. We
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: can never control a Jesse or an ex husband or
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: even an x Y. We can't control them. No lawyer
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: can control them, no judge can control them. The only
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: thing we can control is how we let it affect us.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: That's it, you know, And because how it affects us
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: is how we show up as a parent. My kids
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: will tell you I was so emotionally disregulated those first
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: eight years. I lost eight years with my kids at
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: very young, single digit ages. I don't remember it. I've
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: blocked it all out. They remind me all the time
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: of how distant I was, because I was such in
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: the fog. I was so in the why is this
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: my life? Like, he's horrible, he's bashing on me, he's
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: take me back to court, I'm so broke, blah blah blah,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and I just I couldn't get with it. And finally
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: somebody said, have you ever just thought about taking care
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: of yourself and stop worrying about him in the situation?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: And as soon as I started doing self care, self love, boundaries,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: healing all of it, my whole life changed and I
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: had so much peace come over me and I went
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: back to being an awesome mom.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Well, because that's the longest relationship you will have is
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: with your children, I.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Know, and especially when they're so little. It's so important
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: to be present and like not worry about the things
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that don't really matter.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Really doesn't matter, none of that, none of the court
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: battle because the second as Belle's eighteen, there's no court
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: that's going to care what happens to her. That nobody's
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: going to care to her. In the judge's world, the
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: court's world, lawyer's world, nobody's going to care. And at eighteen,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: she's able to say I like you, I like you,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: or I don't like you and I really couldn't stand you.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: For all eighteen years, she will get to decide what
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: she does. That's the like, that's the trophy we're looking for.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Is where do they come home to for Thanksgiving? That
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: first year of college? How do they spend Christmas when
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: they get engaged, who do they call the first birth
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: of their child? Who's in the room, who's in the
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: waiting room? Like, that's what everybody should be looking for,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: not who wins the freaking restaurant or the retirement package.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Nobody gives it about that. You shouldn't anyways. You should
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: be caring about how your child will view you, and
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: how your child will love you, and what relationship you
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: will have on your child for the duration of their life.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all I think about all the time before
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I go to bed. I'm like, I just want to
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: love Isabella. I want her to love me and just
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: be best friends when she grows up, And how can
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I make that happen?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Perfect? So then just start teaching her that she's going
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: to have to have a voice in all relationships she has.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying just specifically with her dad, with you,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: with grandma and grandpa, with peers, with teachers, everybody that
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: comes in her life she's going to have because high
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: conflict people are everywhere. You're everywhere. It could be her
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: preschool teacher, it could be her neighbor.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Guy.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: That's it's rude, Like, you're gonna have to teach her
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: her voice too, and her boundaries too with people. And
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: again that's where I think it just it's a real
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: slap in the face when your kids start throwing boundaries
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: out with people. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it took
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: me till thirty something to figure those out. But look
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: at you at seven, you got a boundary, Like that's
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: really awesome. That's where that builds that lifelong relationship because
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: she's gonna know you taught her that, and that's how
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: life skill.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And another thing that you mentioned that I thought was
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: really interesting because I've done it both ways. I think
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: birthday conversations happen all the time. I have so many
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: people in putting and giving me their opinions on like, well,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you should be together for birthdays and have that one
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: day with your daughter. And so when we first separated,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: we actually did do a little thing together. And when
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I listened to your TikTok, it was very strange for
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: me because I went into his home and it was
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: just a very different you have.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Yourself last, you know, in that situation, and she'll follow
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: that suit. And that's what I'll tell you about that.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: My therapist, Barb, she was like, Yeah, you think you're
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: showing your kids that you'll always put them first, But
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: then what they're gonna follow that, and then they're gonna
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: put other people first before themselves. There's nothing wrong with
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: going to a child and saying, you know what, Mom's
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: gonna have a party and dad's gonna have a party.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have the one with all your friends, or
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have the one with all the family, and
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: maybe Dad's gonna do the opposite or the same. Nobody
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: cares my kids. If I called them in here right
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: now without any any prompting me, and I said, would
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: you want a birthday party with both of us? She
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: would say hell to the no ever, no way, because
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: of that two different personalities. Who she was for her
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: dad was not who she was for me. So if
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: we were in the same room, she would have to
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: pick which parent do I please right now? And I'm
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: always gonna please the parents that's harder. So she would
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: have always pleased her dad because his personality was a
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: little bit different than how she showed up for me.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And I would never do that to her. Not to
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: mention kids love two parties, I mean, it's twice the
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: amount of joy and fun and it's and anybody that's
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: listening about holidays or about birthday, it's not about the
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: specific day. It's about the celebration and who's having a
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: birthday party. I'm sorry. If your kids' birthdays on a Tuesday,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: you're not having a party on a Tuesday anyways. You're
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: having the party on the weekends. So like on your weekend,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: you have a party in the following weekend, your ex
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: has the party, and kids are okay with that. They
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: want it to all be spaced out. They want to
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: just see both parents relaxed, And I just you got
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: to always remember, how you show up for yourself is
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: how your kids will show up later for themselves. So
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: if you're doing things to bend over backwards and be
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: flexible and be gumby and oh I'm the best co
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: parent in the world, you're akaa people pleaser, and your
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: child will eventually do all those same things. And you're
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: over there, like, man, stand up for yourself and you're like,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: what's that look like. I don't even know what that
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: looks like. You've never shown me that you always do
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: what everybody else once you do, because that's what's best.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: So be very mindful of that, because I again, I
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: did that for eight years thinking that I was going
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: to prove that I was not the problem, and I
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: was the problem because I was a people pleaser.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because I learned just
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: from last year. I felt uncomfortable. I didn't feel myself.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I just I was like, this is not necessary. I'm
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: not doing that again in the future. And she recently
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: had a birthday, and on her actual birthday, I took
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: her to Disneyland. It was the best, just her and I,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: completely different dynamic, and I'm like, she's fine, she's going
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: to see her dad. She saw her dad yesterday, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: then she saw her dad the following day, so it
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: was perfect.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I think again it goes back to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: having a really clear parenting plans that you don't even
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: have to discuss with your ex any type of specifics.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: It's just let's just follow the plan, you know. That
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: way we don't have to talk, especially around this emotional
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: time of her birthday where we're both kind of like
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: feeling a little bit of the guilt of the divorce
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: and stuff like, let's just follow what the plan says
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: and celebrate during our own time or whatever it lists there.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so I'm fifty to fifty custody and goal
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I actually, which is very naive of me. I didn't
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: know anything about legal beforehand. I just said, like, it
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: makes sense, fifty to fifty legal. But then I learned
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: the hard way that we need to be in agreement
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: about the most important things, such as hell and yeah.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: The four pillars education, extracurricular, medical, and religion. Those are
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: the four basic pillars in any state. California and most
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: all states will really say that you have to agree
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: on all four things. And it's really tricky when you
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: have somebody again that has maybe an issue with you,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and just anytime you say black, they say white. You know,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: it's just they're going to go against camp. No, okay,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: then what are we doing? You know? It comes up
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: with no ideas, just likes to say no to everything.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: And that's why a really good parenting plan, especially if
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: you're in a state where a lot of people are
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: going towards fifty to fifty and joint parenting, you've got
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: to plan out all those things. You really have to
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: take a look at where's your child at and what
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: age you know, leaps are they going to go through,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and kind of predetermine all of those decisions because if not,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you're probably where you are where it's just legal joint,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: you know, and you have to go back and bring
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: a mediator in every single time or call your lawyer
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: every single time that you two can agree. And I
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: really think that's just been a disservice that the system
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: is so flawed that people like me are out here
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: saying no, I've built something that will literally get you
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: no matter where your kid is when you get divorced,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: all the way to eighteen. We predetermine all the choices,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: so we could be done with each other and just
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: focus on her forever, and we don't have to keep
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: calling and mitigating, you know, and going and using lawyers
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: all the time. We can just actually move on with
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: our lives instead of keep reminding ourselves that we're divorced
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: and it's ugly.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: That's the best advice. Can you do a parenting plan after?
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can modify it. So so if you are
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: somebody that's listening and you're like, okay, I'm in the
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: divorce process, I ten out of ten recommend a couple things.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Number one, go take my class and at least learn
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: everything about what a parenting plan is, the four pillars.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: But I also break down everything especially in dealing with
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: high conflict. Super cheap and affordable. It's only ninety seven dollars.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But learn as much as you can be the most
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: educated person in the room about all the options. Because
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: as you're hearing just me today, you're like, I didn't
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: know that was an option. I didn't know that was
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: an option. I don't want that for anybody, And lawyers
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: just don't have the time to like handhold you through
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a lot. They're expecting you to come educated, all right, Well,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: at least the good ones are expecting you to come educated.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: The bad ones don't want you to be educated. But
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: you want to come and learn as much as possible.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: But yes, my ideal client is somebody that's starting thinking
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: or just like really just talk to their attorney yesterday
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: and she wants a divorce or he wants a divorce.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: I want to take a parenting plan and write it
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: from however old your kid is now, all the way
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: to high school, diapers, to diplomas, every major leap. Again,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: like I said, my kids were one and three when
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I got divorced. They're old kids now, they're in their twenties.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: It's been doing this a decade. So every time I
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: get a difficult client situation, I adjust my templates, I
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: adjust all the work, I adjust my team. I coach
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: my team on a dune change. But you want to
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: be able to build a custom parenting plan that answers
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: all of those things. You know, are we doing private school?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Are we doing pre K? Are we doing after school
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: program before school? Are we doing a day camp in
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the summertime? You know? Medical? Are we vaccinating? Are we
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: doing a slow vax? Are we doing novaks? Religious? Are
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: we baptizing? Are we not baptizing? Can she go on
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: a mission trip when she's fifteen? I don't know. We
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: want to plan everything out. Extracurriculars are the biggest one
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to pay attention to, especially for you guys that get
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: divorced when your children are young. You're like, we'll always agree, No,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: you won't. You won't agree whether your kid does a clarinet,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: or she does volleyball camp, or she does travel softball. Like,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: you want to make sure you kind of plan out
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: for all those scenarios. Well, if she does do this,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: here's what the plan is. If she does do this,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: here's you who has finals say she does this? Who
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: pays for it? Because if you don't do that, then
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: you're guaranteeing that you always have to call your lawyer
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: or always just give in to the other parent, And
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: that's just exhausting. Again, I'm all for peace and focusing
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: on my relationship for my child. If I have to
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: keep talking to my ex, that is not peace. If
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I have to keep paying my attorney. I am not
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: at peace. So I want to lay all that out
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: and get that done. And why do I want it
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: done so early for the people listening, Because I want
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: you to then to use that and use that to
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: interview attorneys. I want you to do that and send
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: it over. Maybe you can't have a kitchen table divorce,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: and you send that over to your ex and say, hey,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: no matter where what state we're in, we have to
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: have a parenting plan because we have a child. Look
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: this over, give me your thoughts, make some edits. I
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: want to cut my costs down, yead. I want to
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: have the whole plan wrote out because I want to
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: be done and I want to move on with my life.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And even in the last twelve months, I've had
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: to deal with some big issues and that was part
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: of the back and forth because, for example, we were
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: having a disagreement between public and private school. We had
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: a big disagreement about Isabella needing surgery to get her
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: tonsils removed. Yes, put in here, and it was an
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: argument because we weren't I to eye on it. So
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: it took me months and months and months to try
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: to convince in order to get something done while she's.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Over there getting fluid on her ears or hearing is
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: decreasing by the minute. And it's all because it's a
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: power trip on who gets the final say and who
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: gets this to push. And that's where you know, then
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: some parents like me, I just give it and be like, fine,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: then we won't do it, you know, because I didn't
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: want to fight anymore. I didn't want to be confrontationally moore,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to spend any more money. But then
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: it's like, but also, this is our freaking health, and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: so now I do have to make this stance and
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: it's just this pissing match constantly, and it's so exhausting
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: to be a part of, so exhausted financially and emotionally
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: and mentally. But that's how they want you to show
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: up as that troubled, bothered, stressed out parent that makes
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: them happy. They're like giddy about that. And that's what's
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: sad about the whole thing is that both of you
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: have two different perspectives on what parenting and coparannting looks like. Yeah,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think he has a clue
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that what stuff like that does to you emotionally and
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: how you show up for her. I think there's a
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: complete detachment there, allowed to say and do what he wants,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and he has no idea how that's going to affect you,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and then how it affects Isabella because she is with
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: you fifty percent of that time.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Very well said, because I think I was not in
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a good place a year ago, and I was just
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: struggling every single day because I knew waking up it
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: was going to be a different argument or a different
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: back and forth, and it was draining.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: But do you know how much growth that is and
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: how many people I see that never say something like that,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: like who I was for eight years. It's embarrassing to
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: say that I was a horrible parent for eight years.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I was detached, wasn't emotionally regulated, the worst stress I've
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: ever been in fight and flight for eight years. It's embarrassing,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: but I learned so much from it. It's what makes
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: me good at this now because I could admit fault,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: and my kids and I are so much better because
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I was able to say, I've part of your childhood
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: totally on me. I played that part. There's healing there
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: for them where the avoidant parent who's gonna act like
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: they're still holier than now that they've never even crossed
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the street. Wrong, That child's gonna look at them and
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: be like, you don't own anything, like my childhood was up,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Like you own part of that right? Nope, not never me.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: You know that's gonna speak so much volume to them.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: When your child becomes older, anybody's child becomes older, you
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: have to be able to sell reflect. If anybody thinks
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: they can go through a divorce and go into single
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: parenting and there's no muddy area where you up and
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: you do things wrong, you're delusional. You're delusional. You're reprogramming yourself.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: You're somebody, you're not with anybody anymore. You're reprogramming. And
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: you chose to do it on national television, which I mean,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I'm still astonished. And it's not just you, you know Jack
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Britain doing it too, Like it's crazy to put that
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: on television and you you held your head up. You
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: had some bad moments, not gonna lie, some ugly, ugly moments.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: But again, as long as you can learn from him,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: she's gonna learn from them. I mean, all you do
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: is show her that and then Shore this podcast. Yeah,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: you know when she's older, when she's much much older.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I think it's just I know people really well. I
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: read people, and so watching that again now knowing what
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: I know, it was just I think again, you were
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: in that muddy water phace. You wanted everybody to see
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: what maybe you had kept a secret for eight ten
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: years of marriage, and it was all trying to come
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: out all at the same time, and people were trying
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: to catch up, and it made you look like you
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: were trying to spew too much. But you kept your
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: mouth shut for so long that nobody really knew how
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: bad it was. Right. And it's not to say he's
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: all to blame or you're all to blame, but again,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: it's nobody's business. Really. You know what happened in your marriage.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: It's over, it's done. We all need to move on.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: And I feel like Jesse's trying to like, you have
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: to be like the ex for the for the marriage.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: You got to take the loss for the marriage and
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to me let him think that, Okay, yep, my fault,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: totally my fault. I'm the reason that she doesn't have
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: two parents under the same home. I don't care what
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: he thinks. I think you were worried about his opinion
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: because you thought somehow thought, like all of us do
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: that if you could get him to think clearly, he'd stop.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: He'd stop coming for you, he'd stop dragging you, he'd
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: stop making stupid ass remarks about you as a mother. Yeah, Nope,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: he's never gonna stop. Accept him. This is who he is.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: This is how he plays the game. It's a matter
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: of do you want to play the game or not. No,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you're gonna rise above. Let him sink his own ship.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Let him sink it. It's his relationship with Isabella. It's
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: not your guys's relationship anymore. You're not a three. Yeah,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not a party of three. It's his relationship with Isabella.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: That's it. He can sink that ship or he can
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: float it. But he's trying to sink your ship with her.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: And that's where you got to be, like, who whoa boundary?
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: No fucking way are you coming over here sinking this ship. Nope,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you're not in my helm. I went to the links
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: of if my children wanted to talk about their dad,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: go outside, stand on the porch, tell me in the garage,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: tell me if we talk about the car, we'd roll
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: the windows down, like get that toxic out of here
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: that I'm like, I did not want him in my
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: home anymore once I learned about boundaries and healing and all, like, no,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't want it, Like this is a
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: peaceful place. Don't bring that right because they'd be like
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Dad said, you did. Dad said, no, we're not playing
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: that game. We're not playing that. You got to protect
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: your peace. And if he wants to sink his ship,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: that's on him. He can sink it. You can't stop it.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Anybody that's dealing anybody. This goes for anybody listening that's
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: dealing with a high conflict personality. Their friends and family
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: and peers and social group will never confront them because
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: they don't want to be the target. Right now, you're
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: his target, and they're okay with that because he's not
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: picking on anybody else but you. If they would have
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: jumped in, he would have boom been all over them
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: and picking on them and finding things in their life
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: about it and degrading them. Nobody wants to be his target.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Do you think there is ever going to be
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: a time where I'm not the target?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Well, that I think. I think the only way you
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: will ever not be the target is if you just
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: don't allow him to get to you. He will always
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: come for you. My ex husband came for me for
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: eighteen years. You call him today, he'd still be like,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Sam is the fucking problem. He's probably still bashing on
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: me in his world, and that's fine, he's entitled to
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: do that. But no, I think he will always have
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: you as a target always, because there's such a He
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: gave so much, he thinks to you that you disloyal
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: took that away, You ended, You embarrassed him, You broke
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: up his marriage, his marriage and his eyes, you broke
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: up his family in his eyes. That you will always
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: be a target, and you have to accept that. I've
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: accepted that. All the girlfriends that my ex husband has had,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: every one of them has come to me and said,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: he's obsessed with you. Will not ever be obsessed with you.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: He is so damaged by what you know, Brent ending
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: his marriage. I will always be a point of contingency
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: for my ex husband. I think Jesse is the same.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I think he will always be coming for you, but
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: it's just when you expect it it becomes more of
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: a laughable game of like get a life, like I
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: buy something new. That's the conversation you're having with all
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: your friends. Did you see that Michelle bought a new car?
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Did you see Michelle moved in with her boyfrien? Int
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Like what are you doing, Jess? What's going on in
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: your life? Talk about that? Nope, everything will be about
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you forever. You just have to accept that. But my
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: problem with that, I see and again I read people
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: all the time, is that he will do that with
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: friends when they get sick of it, He'll start doing
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: this with Isabella. That's my fear is that I hope
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: he does not.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: I agree. I hope he does not, because I want
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: the best from But.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: He's going to be seeking validation because that's what he's
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: doing with peers. He's seeking validation all the time that
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: he's right and nobody's telling him he's wrong. So then
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: he's going to take it to the next level and
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: say those small little things in front of the child
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: and eventually get into bigger things. And he's going to
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: be looking to see if she agrees, and she will
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: because she'll be nice and she'll people please, which will
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: only make his ego bigger that she agrees with them,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: and it's going to make it way worse for everybody.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Therapy therapy, therapy for child. She needs to be in
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: therapy so that she can have somebody that she can
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: bitch you and be like, gosh, I don't like it
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: when mom says this. I don't like it when dad
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: says this, and somebody can help guide her. I swear
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: by play therapy at young ages the right THERAPI. So
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: you got to shop around, You got to you got
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: to spend some money. You got to find somebody that's
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: been in the business a while to give her her
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: piece that she gets to talk and play and vent
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: and express herself without any ramifications or people pleasing.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: At what age would you recommend that my.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Children started at single digits, like four or five, seven,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: you know around there, Like they started and just played
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: and talked to the therapist and we stuck with her
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: for four years and then they went on to couch
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: therapy and life changing and anytime we hit a rough patch,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: we're like, is this therapy time? Yep, let's go, you know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: and we talk it out. I want to stay in
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: the mom role, and I want all moms out there
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: and dad's out there. Stay in your lane. You're not
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: a therapist. Stay in your lane. Be mom. If your
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: kids struggling with emotions, anything mental, get them help, like,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: stay in your lane and just be their parent and
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: guide them and support them. You don't need to adjust
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: anything that they're thinking. Let them work that out with
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: a professional. But yeah, that's my fear for you guys,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: is that he's going to try to throw you under
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: her bus. Yeah, and the only thing you can do
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: to account that is to just show her who you are.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: He may say, and again, I don't know that he's
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: gonna do this. He may say, your mom's a bitch,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: have a great relationship with her. Your mom drinks too much,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: watch your drinking in front of her. Your mom has
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: all these men around her. You don't, you know, Like
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: you just you counter everything that he's spewing. She's eventually
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: going to be like, yeah, I don't get that, you know,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: I just I don't. I don't feel that She's never
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: done that to me. No, you know, but he's gonna
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: run his mouth. I have a feeling.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you so much for all advice,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: because even that helps me, even though I've already been
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: in the process for over a year of trying to
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: get divorce.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing you're gonna do. He will always be
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: a target to him. You will always be. You just
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: have to accept your job, like, Okay.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: This is who I am, which I think I am
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: at that stage. I sometimes like give in a little bit,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: but I've really tried to like just move forward in
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: life because now I have a boyfriend, I just moved
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: in with him. I want to just move forward with
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: life and be happy.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Yep. And that's again, that's the the counter to the cryptonite.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: You know, him engaging with you is what he wants,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: and all you have to do is just show him
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: that you're at peace and you're happy. And yeah, you
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: can give into things because not everything is in ranking
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: order of high importance where he's gonna think that, you know,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: you gave in on a doctor's woman and you let
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: him take hot. See, she doesn't want to go to
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: a doctor's woman. She's so lazy. She just wants to
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: be with her boyfriend, when in reality, you both going
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: it is going to cause more conflicts. So you're like,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: you know what, for Isabella's sake, I'm gonna let him
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: take her, and I'll just find out from the nurse
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: of the doctor or Isabella that it went good. And
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I'm good with that. Where he thinks she's so lazy
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: she let him believe whatever fictional story he wants to
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: do in his head, I don't really care. I'm gonna
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: be the target and the bad guy forever. Accept that role.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I was trying to say, you are to not be
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: the bad guy in his eyes, when in the reality
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: is I knew I was in forever.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Forever you will be and when you can accept that that.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: That's only his viewpoint though, And I really don't even
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: care if there's ten more people attached to that. Let
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: those ten other people with him think that too. It's
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: between you and your creator, your universe, whoever you believe,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: even that's the and your child that is the most
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: important person. Who I care what they think of me.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: That's it. Those two people, myself actually three, whoever my
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: creator is, and my child. That's it. That's it. What
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: he thinks I could give twos about you know. That's it.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much. I really welcome to your experience.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: It's very helpful.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: You're welcome. You're welcome. Anytime. I mean, I'm a faithful follower.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: I started at vander Pump Rules and it just keeps
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: going and going and I am just obsessed.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: And again touch because there's a lot more episodes than I.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know, I can't wait. Wait all right, thank
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: you again, have a good day. Thank you too.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Bye bye bye