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This or That · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to another opinionated episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: Um your co-host, Steve Wirt.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: And as usual, I'm joined by I'm Tim Hannon.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: And uh much like Coke or Pepsi or Marianne or Ginger or well, if you're younger, Taylor Swift or Sabrina Carpenter, uh, how about chocolate or vanilla ice cream?
0:24
SPEAKER_02: What do you prefer, Tim?
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Beach or the mountains?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Probably the mountains.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: So throughout the history of time, everyone has debated what preferences are best.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: And um, in the immortal words of 90s hip-hop group Black Sheep, the choice is yours.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you remember that group, Tim.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: So on this episode, we're gonna debate what was better.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it'll involve many Pittsburgh sports subjects.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh, you know, come join along with us as of course all my opinions are right and all Tim's opinions are wrong.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh for example, Tim, what do you think is better?
1:21
SPEAKER_02: The Permani sandwich or the Philly cheesesteak?
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Um it's that's just gonna be a little blasphemous, but I kind of like a Philly cheesesteak.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I I do too.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: And you gotta get one from like one of the local places.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Like there's that Tony Luke's or Pat and Gino's.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: So Permani's, I guess, is the only one in Pittsburgh that really puts fries and coleslaw on a sandwich.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe it's not a fair comparison.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: So I don't like coleslaw, so I I've never been a massive Permanence fan, but I do.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's unique, it's something unique about our city.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: I do like their their uh they have a Cajun chicken.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: That that is very good.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: So so uh just a few like notes just from housekeeping here.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh I tried to keep the comparison with these eras, like in between the eras.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: So like I wasn't trying to compare like somebody from like the 19th century to like 2025.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, we tried to keep it within the style of play, too.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, we were convinced like a finesse player with a more physical power player, so you know, just to keep the everything a little more fair.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: So and without uh further introduction, I will start the list.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: And the first section of people are I call this no-brainers.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: These are comparisons that are so one-sided that there really isn't much debate.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: But I don't know, maybe Tim will find some.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: We'll see.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh, how about Emmett Smith versus Jerome Bettis?
2:56
SPEAKER_02: How's that, Tim?
2:57
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'll run off the qualifications of both people and we'll uh talk about each.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh Emmett Smith, he's an eight-time Pro Bowler, three-time Super Bowl winner, NFL offensive rookie of the year, four-time rushing leader in a season.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: All-time, he's all-time rushing NFL rushing leader at 18,355 yards.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: He has 164 rushing touchdowns, so he's had an excellent career.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: And remember that great time he spent with the Cardinals after the Cowboys?
3:29
SPEAKER_02: That was really that was yeah.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, where he just really was combining enough, he just wanted to get the rushing yards.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: That that's what he wanted.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: So uh for Jerome Bettis, he played from 1993 to 2005, of course, with the Rams and the Steelers.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: He was a six-time Pro Bowler, he was the comeback player of the year in '96.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: You forget that.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: He was kind of left for dead for a year or two there.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, he won one Super Bowl.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: He has 13,662 all-time rush yards, eighth all-time, and has 91 rushing TDs, which include a lot of one-yard runs at the end of his career when he was just kind of, you know, uh, what do they call it?
4:11
SPEAKER_02: A fantasy hawk there.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: So um, Tim, I'll give you my pick.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm going with Emmett Smith.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: He definitely I know he played on better teams.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: He played longer, has more Super Bowls, more rush yards.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: Um can very consistent, whereas Jerome Betis had kind of an up and down career.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: So uh just overall consistency probably pushes him over the edge over Jerome Bettes.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I guess that's fair.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: I I mean the only thing I'll say is that so two things.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: One, you people remember Bettis kind of the way well, I'm not gonna there's a couple guys later on this list I'm gonna compare this to, but there's a couple guys in Pittsburgh Sports History who we remember as this great legendary player that we all loved for the whole time they were here.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Bettis in the late 90s, you know, when they when they had Richard Huntley and and they were drafting people like Chris Fu Matumafala and people like that, Bettis was kind of done at that point.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, he comes back and has his great season in 2001, but then they have Amos Araway and they signed Duce Staley and he's done again.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And then he has another resurgence very late in his career.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: But you're right, he he had he he wasn't just like the workhorse that entire time.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: That you know, he had these very up and down kind of periods, but no one ever remembers that.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: And Emmett Smith is pretty much his whole time in Dallas was consistent now.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: The time in Arizona was kind of like Bettis's at the end.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, that was just him hanging on too long.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: That was just like you know, Gary Rice playing for the Seahawks and Franco playing for the Seahawks, and you know, I guess everybody ends their career with the Seahawks.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but but but the the the Emmett Smith had like that offensive line.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, was much better than Bettis anything Bettis every time.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: My goodness.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Eric Williams and Nate Newton and Larry Allen and and Mark Sepnowski from Pitt, like you had all these just all world, all-time kind of great offensive linemen.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I don't want to take too much away from Evan Smith.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: He was still a really good running back.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, but man, if you ran like who who's like an average running back from back then, you know, like uh Ernest Biner, right?
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Or uh somebody like that, somebody who was good but not like an all-time great.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: You ran somebody like that behind that offensive line, they probably put up Hall of Fame numbers also.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know about Hall of Fame, but I think they would put I I don't know.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: I think Emmett Smith was very consistent, very consistent.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: In like whereas Bettis, I I will say this, Bettis had better speed than Emmett Smith.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: He for a big guy, he had more breakaway speed.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Whereas Emmett Smith, you were always gonna kind of get three yards, four yards, five yards, you know.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: So that's that was kind of I think Jimmy Johnson's thing.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: So and they both had very I didn't go through the college careers, but they kind of had similar college careers, too.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, maybe it's not as much a no-brainer as I thought, but I thought Emmett Smith was just really just head and shoulders above Joan Bettis.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: But fun fun fact about Emmett Smith, like the Cowboys drafted him with the pick that we traded them in the 1990 draft.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know that.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we traded down in that first round.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: We eventually selected Eric Green, but they traded up with to our pick to draft Emmett Smith.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Was that all the Herschel?
7:54
SPEAKER_02: No, that wasn't the Herschel Walker he picks, was it?
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, they they I'm sure they had picks from that deal that they probably I don't remember what they traded us to move up, but it was probably you know collateral from that from that deal.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't know.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: So you agree with me on this one, Emmett Smith.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: I do, yeah.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all right.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Here's another one you'll probably agree with me on Jim Brown versus John Henry Johnson.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: He was a steel driving man.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh Jim Brown is an eight-time NFL rush leader, 12,132, 11th all-time.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Although when he retired, he was the all-time leader and was the all-time leader for quite a while.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, rush yards 102, uh, rush touchdowns 102.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: 1964, he only had one championship in the NFL.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize that.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh three-time NFL MVP, five-time NFL touchdown leader.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think he won something called the Burt Bell Award.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's like an MVP or something.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, John Henry Johnson played with San Francisco, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Houston.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, Pittsburgh, if you remember, I remember we talked about this in one of our episodes that we drafted him.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: I think it was the Steelers Dark Ages way back when, one of our old, old episodes, that we drafted him and he went and played.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: He was like, Nope, I'm gonna go play in the Canadian League.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, but he ends up being an all-timer.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, he he uh rushed for 6,000 yards all-time, 48 rush rushing TDs in 1962.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: He was the oldest player to get a thousand yards rushing, and that was later uh John Riggins beat that being older.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, Jim Brown, for his part, called him the greatest running back he had ever seen.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: So Jim Brown thinks he's better than him, but I'm going to disagree with the great Jim Brown and say Jim Brown that is better than John Henry Johnson, who was a very good running back.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: Although I he had I did he have his best years with the Steelers, or was that more with the Lions?
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Probably more with the Lions than the although he had really good years.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: He had like a late career resurgent with the Steelers that was under um no, I think that wasn't with um the nut job coach.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it I think part of it was because it was he was with the Lions and yeah, right, right, yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I having never watched both of those guys play, obviously, except in old footage, you know, but I I yeah, I Jim Brown's Jim Brown.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's he's a tier above most other running backs ever.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh and John Henry Johnson's a Hall of Famer, but he yeah, he's just not Jim Brown.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I picked a no-brainer.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I picked now.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Next up, we're gonna go to the coaching, college coaching ranks.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: And for this, this person, we're only we're not going to consider his later career, we're just gonna consider his early career.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And that would be Bobby Balden versus Johnny Majors, and they were contemporaries at the time for a short period of time.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: Bobby Baldon, of course, coached at WVU from uh let's see, 66 to 75, and Johnny Majors was at Pitt from 73 to 76.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: So their their time did overlap.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: And um Bobby Balton at uh WVU was 41-26 and two, I guess.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh no, 26.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: He had two Peach Bowl wins, three All-Americans.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, generally ended up being a very nice guy.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh, even there.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: He helped uh Marshall out after the infamous plane crash, gave him their playbook and some uniforms and some tape as they were rebuilding their program.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, Johnny Majors, very similar, very nice guy, very gentlemanly.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, 91 and 45, but that's including the 90s stint.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: So I guess that kind of skews the thing.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: If you just go with the 70s stats, it's 34, 13, and one, much better.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, he has a Heisman Trophy winner, national championship in 1976, national coach of the year in 1976.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, my dad used to tell me stories about Johnny Majors doing recaps in the student union of the games after games.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: You'd be like, oh, here we had this play, we didn't do this well, we did that well.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: And my dad said he learned a lot about football from Johnny Majors doing those recaps.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, my pick is for Johnny Majors for his time at Pitt.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: I think overall Bobby Baldon probably had a better stint because of those years at Florida State.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: But when you compare the Pitt and W View timelines, it's definitely, I think it's a little it's definitely makes it a no-brainer because Johnny Majors won a national championship and had an undefeated season, and Bobby Baldon got run out of town after, I think, losing.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Was it a bowl game?
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Or what I think he lost to Pitt.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: They gave up a big lead to Pitt and the West Virginia fans in their genius mode ran a Hall of Fame coach out of town.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Good move.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Good move by them.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: He only went to Florida State and had like a Hall of Fame career.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I agree with you.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: I I think that um, you know, I I don't know what the what West Virginia football was like before Bobby Bowden, but you did that episode, Steve, about Johnny Majors and how just in shambles Pitts program was when he came.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: And he and he not only turns it around, he turns it into a national champion and uh and like one of the top programs in the country.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: So, and Bobby Bowden did really good things with West Virginia too, but you know, it doesn't have the national championship, so gotta give that one to Majors.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: It it really is a story.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, I remember watching an interview with Bobby Baldon about like one of the reasons he moved is the fans were just crazy in West Virginia.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Like they're pounding on the like the locker room door at halftime during one of the games, like and he just like threatening his family.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: And he just said, I've had enough of this.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: And he went to Tallahassee and really never looked back.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: That's that's boy, that's disappointing and surprising to hear, Steve, because if I know anything about the fans in Morgantown, it's that they're classy, reasonable, um, just just always kind to the opposing teams and their own teams.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: I I I'm sure that was just a few bed apples and not at all emblematic of the overall fan base down there.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh I get the feeling uh my sarcasm detectors going off the charts here.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh anyway, we picked Johnny Majors over Bobby Baldon on that one.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: Um how about this one?
14:28
SPEAKER_02: Larry Fitzgerald versus anyone from Penn State or West Virginia.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: I picked two players, Bobby Ingram or Tavon Austin.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: I think that's your two best wide receivers from either of those.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's hilarious because I think both those guys played like four years and Larry only played two.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, uh, let's see, Larry won a Bolitnikov.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh well, let's see.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: The Bobby Ingram, 91 to 95, undefeated 94 team, won the first Bolitnikov award.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Did you know that?
14:59
SPEAKER_02: Fun fact, Tim.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh he was he did pretty well in the NFL, fifth all time with Seattle's Seahawks history.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: He was drafted, though, by the Bears, and of course they ruined him because that's what the Bears do.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was the Penn State reception leader until 2008, so he had a pretty good pen career at Penn State.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: Tavon Austin had a good career with WVU 2009 to 2012, 114 receptions his senior year.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: He was an eighth pick by Seattle.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Why does Seattle keep coming up in conversation today?
15:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: But he had a mediocre career, he bounced around a lot.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, what are you gonna do?
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Davon Austin.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Um Larry Fitzgerald, he had a short but legendary career, won the Belitnikov Award as a sophomore, had TDs in 18 straight games, back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons, had a great NFL career, especially in the playoffs.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: His Super Bowl 43 stats were seven catches for 127 yards, two DDs, probably one that in any other normal circumstance would have won Arizona a Super Bowl, but Big Ben and Santonio Holmes kind of snatched that away from them.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think this is another no-brainer.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, Larry Fitzgerald is better than Bobby Ingram or Tavon Austin, Tim.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by far.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm just trying to think of like, is there anybody you've I know you're you're trying to keep it within like the era.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to think of like there's anybody else in the era that even I mean Joe Jerovicius was there around that time at the end.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: He yeah, I mean he was he was good, but he wasn't that great.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean he was their other receiver besides Bobby Ingram, wasn't he?
16:42
SPEAKER_00: I think I I think or you know, I mean so so or he might have been there a few years later.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And then West Virginia had that kid that um that got drafted by the Bengals that got killed.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Chris Henry.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Chris Henry, yeah.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: So but yeah, I can't really think of I mean, is there any Penn State receivers that well, I mean, now if you did this, they obviously did this like Penn State linebackers versus pin line pit linebackers, it'd probably be a no-brainer for the Penn State, you know.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: But but but is there any like Penn State receivers from that era or or any era?
17:18
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean not that I could think of, yeah.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Chris Godwin's been pretty good in the NFL.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Right?
17:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's a Pro Bowl receiver for Tampa Bay, he's been pretty good.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Um you know the former Steeler Alan Robinson, he was he was okay.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, but you're right.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Larry, Larry's definitely better than any.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: I think that one you could expand to any era pretty much.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: I didn't say he's better than anybody that the two schools had, but definitely from that era.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, moving on to another fun no-brainer.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: Art model versus Dan Rooney.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: Boy, this is the biggest no-brainer of all time, isn't it, Tim?
18:02
SPEAKER_02: So let's start with Art Model.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: He buys the Browns in 1961, and he fires Paul Brown.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: He fired a legend, and and Paul Brown was so pissed about it.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: He went and started the Cincinnati Bengals.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: Um in 1964, he actually did win a championship with I guess Paul Brown's assistant or another coach with the same team, and that's the last championship that Cleveland has won in football, and was the only championship until LeBron won a champion, uh the basketball one in like the 2000s there.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: So um they were mediocre to bad for most of the they were good in the 90s.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: They weren't like I mean, they had a pretty good team.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: They had a very good coaching staff in '94.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: What they have Nick Saban, Jim Schwartz, Bill Belichick.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they had a really solid coaching staff, but unfortunately, in 95, Art Model decides that he wants a new stadium and that Cleveland's not going to give him one, so he's like, well, I'm going to take the team and move to Baltimore.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Fun times, huh, Tim?
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh he moves the team to Baltimore and um they win their only Super Bowl there in 2000.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Um the record in Cleveland was 278 and 233 and three.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh the postseason was 7-14 with no Super Bowls in Cleveland.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: He at least had one.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: Was I I think they had changed ownerships by the time they won the second one, right?
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: He won that first one, the 2000 Ravens.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: So his best moment was definitely the 1964 championship game.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: As for Dan Rena, Dan Rooney, uh, he took over a team that was in total disarray and hadn't won at all, ever.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: So he takes over um for art and in 69 hires Chuck Knoll, has the best team of the 1970s, uh, redefines the team into the the one of the most popular teams in the NFL.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: They're an international team.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: I bet more people in England know who the Pittsburgh Steelers are than the Cleveland Browns.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, they win six Super Bowls, they have many Hall of Famers.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, the best moment, I think, for Dan, and I I don't remember, I remember reading his book, but I don't remember if he had a bet.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Probably that first Super Bowl and giving the trophy to Art Sr.
20:32
unknown: Yeah.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: Since for the long-suffering owner, I think that's everybody's favorite moment from that generation of people.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: So um Dan Rooney, and it's not even close to him, not even in the ballpark.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just on any front, on any front.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh on influence in the NFL.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, all the the the biggest outside of football influence art model made was he made Cleveland make a law.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Ohio had to make a law where you're not allowed to move the sports teams out of and did you know they had to amend the law because Cleveland wants to build a dome that that crazy Jimmy Hasm wants to build a dome stadium outside of Cleveland, and they said, okay, the law just applies to Ohio, as long as you don't move the team out of Ohio.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: So he could move the team to like Toledo or Dayton in Youngstown, and they'd be okay.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: You move the team to Columbus, I guess, if he wanted to.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: So so definitely Dan Rooney is tops here because I I've said before, he and Mario Lamie were the two most important sports figures in Pittsburgh history.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's not even close.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: But I will say, like Art Modell, if he never moves the team to Baltimore, I think he he has a much greater legacy.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they win the Super Bowl or not, you know, as the Cleveland Browns, maybe.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Um but he maybe they 'cause I'm He did have um who's the general manager?
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Ozzy Newsom.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: So so So maybe they build that team in Cleveland.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe they they still draft Ray Lewis the next year and Jonathan Ogden the next year.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Like it it's entirely possible.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh he he was similar to Dan Rooney, where the players loved him.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: He was one of those like he knew everybody's name and he, you know, asked the players how their families were, and he was that kind of an owner.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: He also was instrumental in like Monday Night Football.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: When that started, nobody wanted to do it, and he volunteered to have the first game at Cleveland uh because he believed that that could be you know a thing for the NFL.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: He helped start NFL films.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: There's all these things that he did that.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: I know he was he was big on Astur turf, I I remember that.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: Which for better or worse.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: The merger of the NFL and AFL.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he well, him and Dan were were key in that.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's for sure.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: Because they were one of the they were one of the teams that had to move from the NFL to the AFL.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, correct.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Or the AFC, yeah.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was the Steelers, Browns, and Colts were the three teams that had to move.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise it would have been imbalanced.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: And supposedly the Steelers and Browns only moved because each other moved.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, so so he was one of those like unselfish, like you wouldn't find this really with sports owners today.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Unselfish, what's what's good for the league kind of stuff.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's really tainted because because he took the team out of Cleveland, which you know deservedly so.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: So are are you picking Art Model?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just saying that I think that he gets kind of a bum rap in history instead of recognized for all the good things he did.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: And also, even the move, again, totally wrong on a thousand different fronts, but man, the city kind of hosed him.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to go into the Well, because they never thought he'd have the balls to move.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: I do.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: They built a baseball team, a stadium, they built the basketball team in Arena, and they're like, yeah, and municipal stadium was it was bad.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: You want to talk about just an absolute dump.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: It was an absolute dump.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And then they built a stadium anyway.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: So it's like you could have just they they ended up building a stadium with an expansion team.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like, why didn't you just build a stadium for him?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: It just it felt like one of those like everybody lost in that deal.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Everybody lost.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he did win a Super Bowl eventually, but yeah, but it's at what cost?
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there could have been the yeah, anyway.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: It just so yeah, I just wanted to throw that in there.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: That I think he gets a bum wrap, and he actually did a lot of good good things.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: We talked in a previous episode, Steve.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned how um, you know, people aren't all good and all bad.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: They have there's a mixed bag, and he's one of the good examples of that.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, next up on our no-brainers, uh, I can't believe this is even a debate.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: I I am shocked that this happened.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: Dan Marito versus Todd Blackledge.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: And this was a thing, Tim.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: This was a thing.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: I I don't I I don't understand Kansas City's thinking on this or a lot or our thinking on it.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: So Todd Blackledge was a three-year starter at Penn State, had a great record 31-5, but his best year, he had 22 touchdowns and 14 interceptions in 1982, but then he's drafted by the Chiefs with the seventh pick overall.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: The seventh pick.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, behind who?
25:36
SPEAKER_02: John Elway and um uh who else was in that draft?
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh Ken O'Brien and yeah, uh Kim Kelly.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh his best moment winning the national championship in 1982.
25:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh Dan Barino had a great career.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: Pitt drafted 27th.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: I think Ken O'Brien was picked before him by the Jets, yeah.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: NFL NVP in 1984, five-time NFL passing yards leader, three-time NFL passing TDs leader, NFL Hall of Famer.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, Todd Blackledge, like I said, never won a Super Bowl, but neither did Dan Marino.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, he had the NFL TD in-season record.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Remember, he had like 50 or 40 some for that stood for like ever.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, his best moment in college was Pitt beating number seven Georgia in the Sugar Bowl in a last-minute pass.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course, Dan Marino is the better quarterback.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Even he had a bad senior season, and I can't imagine that he had any worse stats than Todd Blackledge had.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand the logic there.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: We can't because Todd Blackledge never even really started in Kansas City.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: Did you know Todd Blackledge at the end of his career ended up playing for the Steelers?
26:53
SPEAKER_02: I remember that.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do remember that.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just weird.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: I think I think that was because Marino had that really bad senior year.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Senior season.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't like really bad, but it was definitely he dropped off.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And that hurt his drastically.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: At least Ken O'Brien started and had like a mediocre career.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, Ken O'Brien had more success.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Like Ken O'Brien's one of those guys that, again, kind of like Art Modell, gets a bum rap because he wasn't L.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Way Kelly or Marino, and because the Jets could have had Merino, and so the Jets had to play all those years in the same division against Marino.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: But Ken O'Brien was actually a pretty good quarterback.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: He just wasn't Marino.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: So it was it was the wrong pick.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, Blackledge was pretty much a bust, a complete bust.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: You can't A bust out of Penn State in the NFL, Tim.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: I know.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Say it ain't sucker.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, say it ain't so.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's there's a long history of those.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: So here's another no-brainer sticking with Penn State's players that probably didn't live up to the hype.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Um LeVar Arrington versus Aaron Donald.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh three-time Pro Bowler for Lavar Arrington, all American at Penn State, 23 and a half sacks, seven-year career.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: I remember Arrington was kind of dominant for like two or three years in Washington.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: And then I guess he got in like a bicycle accident or motorcycle accident, and that ended his career.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: He had signed a big contract with I forget one of the New York teams.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: He had a lot of injuries.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: I remember he him being injured.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: He was good.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: He was one of the things.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: He was better in college than he was in the pros, much more dominant, blocking field goals and making plays.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: Of course, he tipped that past the Latif Grimm in that one, but then he blocked the field goal that won the game for him.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: So I've ever just people like, oh, he's so good in this and that.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: And he was good in college.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: He was definitely an all-American, definitely dominant player, beating up the punter, you know, well, whatever.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: Um Aaron Donald, one of the more I this is one of the shocking, most shocking out of nowhere guys I've ever seen in my life.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: That that senior year at Pitt, he just, for whatever reason, I don't know if he changed his workout routine or just got serious about it.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: He had such an amazingly dominant senior season at Pitt.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Remember, like, there's like highlights of him sacking both like the uh Georgia Tech, or was it the Duke running back and quarterback at the same time?
29:26
SPEAKER_02: He's like, Well, I don't care who, I'm just gonna tackle both of you.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, with but and he uh 10 seasons in the NFL, won a Super Bowl, and this is like the craziest thing about Aaron Donald.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: He was so dominant in the NFL.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember like uh it was Joe Burrow and the Bengals, and Burrow's going back to pass on fourth down, and you never see a defensive lineman make a play in that situation.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: He goes and stacks him and forces a didn't stack him, but he hurried him and he forced an errant pass that basically won the Rams the Super Bowl.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've never seen a defensive player like on the defensive line do that before.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Have you?
30:02
SPEAKER_02: I he's one of the best.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: He wasn't a Hall of Famer walk.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: Um is he in the Hall of Fame?
30:06
SPEAKER_02: I guess he isn't.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he hasn't been long enough yet.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Outland winner, blah, blah, blah.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just tons of award.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: He I mean, I don't even know if you could really compare him with the Lamar Arrington because it's obviously so much better.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: Maybe Courtney Brown, but he sucked in the pros too.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Sam Huff, maybe from West Virginia, if you were looking for a West Virginia person, but that was back in the 50s.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: But I'll let you talk about brag about Aaron Donald for a while, Tim.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, so Aaron Donald's gonna go down as one of the greatest defensive players in NFL history.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh he he won the NFL Defensive Player of the Year three times.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: I think there's only a handful of guys that have won it that many times.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: And so he's literally like a top ten all-time defensive player in the history of the Yeah.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Lawrence Taylor.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: Lawrence Taylor, Joe Green, him.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm trying to think of who else.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh Deacon Jones.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's that's the kind yeah, T or um JJ Watt, possibly.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: So like guys like that, it's it's yeah, he's an all-time great.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Now, so so if you're talking about what happened after college, definitely Aaron Donald, like of the whole picture.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: But if you're talking about just in college.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: Aaron Donald had one year, LeVar Arrington had three or four, so maybe a slight advantage there.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: But he had such a great year that senior year.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: It was better than anything Arrington ever did in college, his whole four years.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: He was just well, but he was more consistent, you know.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, and Arrington, like Donald played in like the YouTube highlight era, and Arrington was a tiny bit before that.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: And and the you talked about the pit game from 99 where Arrington blocks the field goal at the end and gets into a fight with the punter and all that.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: He he just was such a beast.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Like you had to you just every play, you had to like double team him or watch him, or he just was everywhere, and then and then he's yeah, he's on the field to block the game-winning field goal.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: He was he was just I think it's hard to remember now just how unbelievably dominant he was in college.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: So I I I think that's pretty even in terms of if you're just going by college.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're going by the big picture, that's definitely Donald.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: So are you saying LeVar Arrington's better than Aaron Donald?
32:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm saying that at least in college, at least in college.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that Aaron Donald's better overall.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying if you're just going by college, it's I I'm gonna give that one a push.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: I think Arrington was really, really good.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: He was.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm not doubting in college.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: And and like dominant, like and Donald was only really Donald was really good in college, but just for one year.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was good other years too, but not the dominance.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Not like that, that that that's that last year, yeah.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was that was out of nowhere.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't yeah.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, here we're gonna go.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to describe this one, but we're gonna go with it, Tim.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, John Capoletti versus Tony Dorsett.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: And the only thing I could say is these are just the battle of Heisman Trophy winners from Penn State and Pitt.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: And Tony Dorsett has 6,082 rushing yards in college.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: He won the Heisman Trophy in 76.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: He won the national championship in the 76.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: He's an NFL Hall of Famer, NFL rushing yards, 12,739, 10th all time, another guy in the top 10 of there's a lot of guys in the top 10 of NFL rushing in this podcast.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh, he has the 99-yard rushing that's tied with the longest in NFO history.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, he's a Super Bowl winner.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: He has a street named after him on the north side, Tim.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: He is a really good player at Pitt.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: Capoletti, for his part, has kind of like an odd career at Penn State.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: He was a defensive back, and then they didn't know what to do with him, so Joe Paterno moved into running back.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: And the two years he does that, he has like an amazing two years at running back.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Penn State goes 12-0 in 1973.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: He only has 2,951 yards, but he does that in two seasons.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: It's like unbelievable.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: He was unbelievable.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: He had 17 touchdowns in 1973.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: He is super dominant in that one year, and he does win the Heisman Trophy, deservingly so.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, the story with Capoletti is um he had a younger brother named Joey, he was dying of leukemia.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: And before the WVU game, um, his brother, like, is the kind of his inspiration said he says, Well, how you know, how am I doing?
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Do you want anything?
34:45
SPEAKER_02: And his brother, John's younger brother, Joey, goes, I want you to score three touchdowns.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: No, make it four.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: And uh, he's like, Uh okay.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: So episode.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: It's like it it's kind of yeah, like the babe root, you know, Paulo O'Neal.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: Paul O'Neill can hit two home runs.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh uh by halftime versus WVU at that point.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: I guess Bobby Baldon was actually coaching the team.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, they had three, he had three touchdowns, and Joe Paterno, not wanting to run up the score, or I think more wisely, not wanting to get his best running back hurt, sat him down because Capoletti, to his credit and the class act that he is, did not want to make you know a big deal out of this.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: Of course, you know, today's media, this would have been all over the freaking news and just would have ruined the story.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, so he sat down, didn't say anything, didn't complain.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: And uh here somebody finally went up and told Joe Paterno what was going on, and he called him back in a dramatic moan he points in, and of course he goes and scores his fourth touchdown.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And there's you know not a dry eye in the house.
35:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's actually video of him accepting his um uh uh Heisman Trophy Award, and he talks about his brother and the influence he had on his life.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, unfortunately, his brother did die in April of 1976 of childhood leukemia.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, he had acute lymphomatasic leukemia.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: The survival at that point was only 24% in 1970.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, but thankfully, to much research and lots of hard work and people like Joey um to Russa over 90% now.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: Um for adults, it was 34% back then.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: Um the Cleveland Clinic states for adults it's only 40% leukemia uh survival rate.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: So we still got some work to do for us old folks, but um much better way to science has marched on.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh kind of a more somber note there, but um, you know, very great story for John.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: I I just stumbled onto this.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: I I briefly I'd never really researched it like I did for this.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: And um he played for the Rams for a couple years in the pros, didn't have that great of a career.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: I think he went to the Chargers, like the Dan Fouts Chargers, played in a couple playoff games, didn't have a lot of impact, but um he's he seems like a very class act kind of guy.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh Dorset obviously was the better player, but um Capoletti had the more compelling story.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: So um any comments on that tip?
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a that's a really nice story about with him and his brother.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: But but other than that, just another guy in a long list of Penn State running backs who failed miserably once they got to the NFL.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was just a thing for decades.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean it not necessarily failed miserably, but definitely didn't reproduce what they did in college.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he's a good he he was a good player.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: It is kind of a weird thing, like they were hiding him at defensive back, then they put him at running back, and he has all this success, like just kind of by accident almost.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: So I mean who who, you know, who was successful?
37:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Franco.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, they had Lydell Mitchell too, who was so like I probably would have been more fair to compare him to Lydell Mitchell, but Capoletti won a Heisman and he had a better story, so I went with Capoletti.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, because Franco, I looked up Franco's stats, because like, well, maybe I can compare him to Franco, and Franco's stats sucked too.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: So I mean they just had a lot of really good running backs back then.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they continue to have good running backs into the 80s and 90s, and they and they just all were Kurt Warner.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Kurt Warner Kurt Warner did okay in the NFL.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: He he was pretty good.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: But uh, but uh, I mean it was like DJ Dozer and Kagina Carter and Curtis Enus and and you know Blair Thomas.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Remember, like these just they had so many busts in the NFL.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: So But Saquon Saquon's done pretty good for himself.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: You gotta give that guy.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yeah, yeah, very well.
38:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, too close to call, Tim.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, we have a too close to call here.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: So these people are neck and neck.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: We might have some disagreement.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh Alexander Ovechkin versus Sidney Crosby.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: And we kind of debated this on one of our current events thing, but we didn't really go in too much into the bet depth here, so we'll do a more of a depth here.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Ovechkin now has he's gonna retire, I think, next year.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: So the stat might move a little.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: He has 897 goals.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: That is the most all time.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: He has one Stanley Cup.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: He is he's only played for one team, the Washington Capitals.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty cool.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: And he he started with them in 2004.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: He has to be the great I think he's the greatest goal scorer of all time.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: He's won a heart trophy three times, Conn Smythe once.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: He won the Calder Rookie Trophy, the Rocket Richard, that's for the most goals in the season nine times, most game-opening goals with 140, second with game-winning goals 124, um, 1,623 points, 1,491 games played.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: Then we go to Mr.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Crosby, who has the heart trophy twice, 625 goals, 10th all-time and assists with 1,062, 6th time all-time with 1682 in points, has three cups games played, uh 1,363.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I assume you're gonna go with Crosby in this one.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: I I kind of pick now that I read his stats, maybe I'll go with Ovechkin.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: I think Ovechkin just longevity, even though he doesn't have the cops.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Maybe he's the better career.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I never thought Gretzky's career, uh career goals would ever be matched.
40:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's a he's a one-trick pony, but that one trick he's very good at.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's he's an all-time legend, Ovechkin.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: And you're right, I never thought that record would be broken either.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: I I have to go with Crosby just because he's more of a complete player, and because they played each other in the postseason four times.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: And he only and they beat him.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the other thing, like Ovechkin has the stats.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Crosby, their stuff, just the overall team leadership.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll give you a good example of something you'd never see on a stat sheet, and you'd only know if you watch this game.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: They're they're playing the Sharks in the Stanley Cup Finals that one year, and they're an overtime of, I think it was game two, and there's a face-off in the San Jose End that Sid's about to take.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And before the face-off, he skates over to Chris Letang and Connor Sherry, and he's like, hey, he like draws up a play on the spot.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: He's like, if I win this face-off, I'm gonna send it back to to Letang, and then he he told Sherry to kind of stand in this soft spot and look for Letang to get him the puck there.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: And what ends up happening is Crosby wins a face-off, and the play goes exactly like he drew it up, and Sherry scores the game-winning goal in overtime.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: I think it's just a great play by Connor Sherry.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: That's all you would ever see.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you know, you look at a stat sheet, it's like he who scored the goal is Connor Sherry.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, that was all because Crosby, you know, drew up that play on the spot during the face or right before the faceoff.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: So those are the kinds of things I think that makes Crosby just another level of of sports legend.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: And so he's not gonna have the stats that Ovechkin has, he's not gonna be the all-time leader, he's not gonna have as many heart trophies or scoring titles or whatever.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: But I I would if I was starting a team from scratch in 2005, I think I'd take Crosby.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Knowing what I know now.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: I will say this, Ovechkin's been more durable and has scored more goals and just he's really good at what he does.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, and Crosby's been hurt a lot.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: He spent what a year hurt.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, that's that's fair.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could also say Washington has a much better team around Ovechkin the last few years than Pittsburgh has had around Crosby.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they've at least had a goaltender that's competent.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: So oh, there you go.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna disagree on one, Tim.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Probably not the first.
43:13
SPEAKER_02: Um Wayne Gretzky versus Mario Lemieux, Tim.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: This has always been this is a debate going on for what, 30 years, 20 years, forever, since 1984.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: This was a huge one when we were kids.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean just a huge debate.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: So Gretzky, second in all-time goals, 894.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: Now he's I get to say that about him for the rest of time.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, assist, he's first, 1963.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't look like that's ever going to be caught.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what's Crosby's what, 300 behind.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: That's the only thing Crosby might catch him with is assist. 'Cause although I don't know if Crosby has enough years to do it, but points.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh nobody's gonna touch him with two thousand eight hundred and fifty seven.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: That's unbelievable.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And uh games played 1,487.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: Gretzky does have four cops.
44:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh Mario for his part has 1,723, and that's eighth all time in points.
44:12
SPEAKER_02: Goals 690.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: Only 11th now all time.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: Um assists, uh, I didn't write down.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh games played 915.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: Lemieux only has two cops.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, three is an owner if we count those.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: He has more than Gretzky.
44:28
SPEAKER_02: Um I'll say this.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: Gretzky was the better overall player.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: Lemieux was a better, like kind of like it's the Ovechkin, like in reverse, the Ovechkin Crosby in reverse.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: Kind of like Gretzky was probably a better like overall playmaker.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: But then Lemieux had those injuries, so he's kind of like got the same thing that Crosby has going against him.
44:52
SPEAKER_02: So I say Gretzky's a better player overall, just because it's hard to argue with four cups, all those stats, and he was really dominant for a long time.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: But Lemieux is definitely the far better owner.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: Lemieux had the much better career post hockey than Gretzky, what say you, Tim?
45:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I guess if you're looking at accomplishments and stats, you kind of have to give it to Gretzky, but my goodness, like there's so much context behind that because Well, the team, like once again, you know, the Penguins had a garbage team for years.
45:29
SPEAKER_02: And Gretzky, like that World Hockey League, when they fold, like, he got, you know, he had a ton of players that are all Hall of Famers.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: Mark Mesis, Mark Messier, Yari Curry, all those great, you know, players he played with.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh Paul Coffee, uh, what's his name?
45:47
SPEAKER_02: Who was the goalie?
45:48
SPEAKER_02: I forget.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh Grant Tierer.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he he had all these.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the interesting thing, too, when they traded, when they traded Gretzky to Los Angeles, they won another cup.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Would the Penguins have ever if the Penguins would have traded Mario in like 1994, you know, there's no there's no chance they would won another cup.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: They would have, in fact, they would have well, let's let's just say when they did win a cup, they would have traded him after 1991.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: There's no chance they win another cup without Mario.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: There's just no zero chance.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: So that's I think that's a little bit of an indictment against Gretzky.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Gretzky was never quite as dominant as he was in Edmonton.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, the other thing with Mario is He had that incredible year in St.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: Louis for no reason.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean I mean Mario just it's like such bad circumstances because he he had the back issues, he had the Hodgkin disease, and then the league decided when he kind of started to come back from that and was starting to be good again, the league inexplicably decided that they wanted to go to this style of letting everybody just get hauled down.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, that's always fun to watch.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, fun to watch teams like the the the Florida Panthers and the New Jersey Devils win win all the the you know the the the big games because they can just you know play the track and haul everybody down and and it's like so had those things not happened, man, it's such a different history that we're talking about, and then and then it's more of an argument.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: I I think too, the like the watching them play, like man, Mario was just so good.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: He had such a flair for the dramatic.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he he was the better one-on-one.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: I always said if I had a penalty shot to save my life, Mario's the guy I'm picking.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: I think he only ever got stopped twice or once.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: I he didn't get stopped very many times.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: I I have to go with Mario.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: I I can't I can't I mean Gretzky's Gretzky's the all-time great, I get it, but I have to go with Mario.
47:52
SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm picking Gretzky just to you know really play into our Canadian fans.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: They'll all agree with me.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: All of Canada's on my side, Tim.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Ha! Including the late Don Cherry.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Is he still?
48:07
SPEAKER_02: I think he's still alive.
48:08
SPEAKER_02: Actually, he is still alive.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: Um how about this one, Tim?
48:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Marc-Andre Fleury versus Tom Barrasso.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: Marc-Andre Fleury has three cups.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: He has the most wins in team history at 375.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: He has legendary saves on Ovechkin and Lindstrom.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: Remember that game seven?
48:27
SPEAKER_02: It ended up being a blowout, but early in the game, he makes a great save on Ovechkin.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: And then uh in Lindstrom, of course, in game seven of the Stanley Cup final, he actually helps us win the cup.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: That's one of the most legendary moments in Pittsburgh sports history.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, Tom Barrasso, two two cups, 14 consecutive playoff visit victories.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: And here's a fun fact: both him and Flurry have won Vesna awards with other teams.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Go figure.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that weird?
48:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: Um he's a big part of the wins in 91 and 92.
49:04
SPEAKER_02: I can't think of a big save by Barrasso.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: He just he was more steady eddy, consistent.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: Fleury, I just think he has more wins, more consistent, bigger saves.
49:14
SPEAKER_02: So I picked Fleury.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: Um nicer guy, too.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: And what what say you, Tim?
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I'd probably pick Fleury too.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: But but I I this is this is very similar to Jerome Bettis, where again, everybody just remembers both those guys were here for a long stretch of time, like like more than a decade, just like Bettis.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: Here for a really long time.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: And everybody just remembers, yeah, that was our great goalie the whole time.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Both those guys had really long stretches.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: Where they weren't dominant, yeah.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where they weren't even the starter because somebody else had supplanted them either due to injury or just they kind of fell off a cliff a little bit, and then both guys eventually kind of made their way back to a degree.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: Um but but yeah, people don't remember that for whatever reason.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: People don't remember like the Thomas, the Tomas Vaucun year with Flurry or the Patrick O'Leam year with Barasso, you know, like it's just something that people don't don't tend to remember.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: So you're going with Flurry.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: So we agree.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: I will go with Flurry just because, like you said, he was more integral.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: I think Barasso was very good.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: Can't take anything away from Barasso.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: But if the Penguins had, I don't know, who was like a medium for goalie?
50:37
SPEAKER_00: Like if they had just you know a sort of a middle of the road goalie, do they still win those cups?
50:41
SPEAKER_00: I think probably they do.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: Whereas I think I mean it's like the most memorable save from those cup runs was by Peter Angelo.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that doesn't mean I mean it's just that doesn't, but I don't mean to belittle the accomplice because they don't win, like they don't beat Chicago that second year without Barrasso.
50:58
SPEAKER_02: Barraso played great in that that last game.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like that.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: That was a wide open game.
51:03
SPEAKER_02: If you watch the replay of that game, like that's a wide open game.
51:07
SPEAKER_02: He had to stand on his head and make some saves.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: He gives up some goals, but he makes the important saves to clinch that trophy.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like that Lin Swan, John Stalworth argument where you know Lynn Swan has all the highlight catches, but John Stalworth was the one making play after play after play.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: So so just just not having like a big, big highlight moment doesn't mean that Barraso wasn't really valuable.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: But I I do think that if you substitute like a kind of middle-of-the-road goalie for Barrasso, we probably still win those cups.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, again, not to take anything away from Barrasso, like you said, he was really, really good, but he I think he was less important to those teams than Flurry was to especially the 2009 team.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll kind of go out of order my notes because I want to save these last two for the last two, but we'll go with next up, we'll go Ladanian Tomlinson versus Curtis Martin.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: And this is this is closer than you think.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: I didn't look at the college stats because I Curtis Martins aren't that impressive overall, and I think Tomlinson had a little better college career, but um another guy, top 10 all-time and rushing Tim, uh uh 13,684, seventh all time.
52:18
SPEAKER_02: He's in the Hall of Fame, five-time Pro Bowl.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: He still holds the record for TDs in a season, played 11 with 28 rushing ones, uh, played 11 seasons.
52:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, here's a fun stat.
52:30
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember this?
52:31
SPEAKER_02: Remember him passing Tim, passing the ball?
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Like that was deadly.
52:35
SPEAKER_02: Anytime he would pass, and he was could throw the ball.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: He was a good passer.
52:39
SPEAKER_02: He was eight out of 12 passing with seven TDs and 143 passing yards.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: I didn't look up Curtis Martin's passing stats because I can't imagine they were very good.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, he actually has more rushing yards than Ladanian Tomlinson.
52:55
SPEAKER_02: Curtis Martin, did you know that?
52:57
SPEAKER_02: 14,101, sixth all time.
53:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, he's also in the NFL Hall of Fame.
53:03
SPEAKER_02: He played 11 seasons, played in the Super Bowl.
53:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna pick Tomlinson just because of this.
53:09
SPEAKER_02: I remember there was a game me and our mutual friend Dave went to and they played the Chargers.
53:16
SPEAKER_02: And the Chargers had Doug Fluty and Drew Brees as their quarterbacks.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: And Tomlinson just absolutely was unstoppable.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers won with, I think the Steelers had Tommy Maddox a quarterback, and they win.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: But man, they just they could not it reminded me of Curtis Martin at Pitt, where it didn't think the Chargers had much going on on offense except for Ladani and Tomlinson.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: And boy, he was really good.
53:41
SPEAKER_02: It's a shame he didn't win a Super Bowl.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh that one playoff game against the Patriots, I thought he played well, but the Patriots just blew it.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: Like they had or not the Patriots, the Chargers blew it.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: The Chargers, remember, they had them beat, and then like the guy intercepts the ball, and then Troy Brown strips him.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: Like they literally had them beat with an interception and they fumble it back, and then I think the Patriots either ran out the clock or kicked the field goal to clinch it.
54:08
SPEAKER_02: Or uh, and that was the game where they all fought.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: Remember that the Chargers and Patriots all fought.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: And like Troy Brown, I I always this always I don't know why this stuck in my head about this.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: But I remember like they're holding Tomlinson back, and it's like, go go get your own players off the field.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: They're the ones, you know, go don't worry about Tomlinson.
54:27
SPEAKER_02: Worry about your own people causing trouble.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: But that was my annoyance with the Patriots of that year.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: I think I think the Patriots ended up winning the Super Bowl that year.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: No, that's they lost to the Colts in the championship game.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, did they?
54:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, that's right.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I would this is the this is another one.
54:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like so.
54:48
SPEAKER_02: I think Tom, but just more dominant, a little more dominant at the NFL.
54:53
SPEAKER_02: Martin was very steady.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Martin was more like steady.
54:56
SPEAKER_02: And he played in the super he played in the Super Bowl had better playoffs than I think Tomlinson did, though.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, yeah.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: I I it's very similar where they both played on teams that like were really good but couldn't quite weren't good enough to win a championship.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess probably Tomlinson, but it's it's and it's tough because I'm biased because I Curtis Martin.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: I love Curtis.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: Curtis Martin's my favorite pit player, one of my favorite of all.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: Me too.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: Me too.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: I'll give it to Martin.
55:24
SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll give it to Martin.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: If it's that close, I'll that'll break the tie.
55:27
SPEAKER_00: Just my personal bias will break the tie.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Martin, one thing we will say about Curtis Martin, like he won the rushing title in his what was it, his tenth season.
55:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my goodness, who does that?
55:38
SPEAKER_02: Very consistent, very John Henry Johnson-like from earlier.
55:42
SPEAKER_02: So but um, yeah, that that's a tough one.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: So we'll jump back and we'll go to two coaches here that are so close you won't believe it, Tim.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna believe these guys.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: I when I started doing this, I was like, boy, this could be the same person.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I here, I'll live out, I'll leave out the names and I'll just name the stats.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: How about that, Tim?
56:03
SPEAKER_02: And then I'll name the names after.
56:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, this first person was 60 and 26.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: They had a big big win against Georgia in the in the Sugar Bowl.
56:14
SPEAKER_02: They had an AP season of 11-1.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: They had two very good players, quarterback and a running back.
56:21
SPEAKER_02: They invented an offense, but then they lost a game that would have put them into the national championship game.
56:28
SPEAKER_02: The second person was 50 wins, nine losses, and one tie.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: They had a big win in the sugar bowl against Georgia, and they lost 48 to 14 that destroyed this team's chance at a national championship.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: Is that eerily similar or what?
56:50
SPEAKER_02: So it is Rich Rodriguez versus Jackie Sherrill.
56:55
SPEAKER_02: This is like the epitome of too close to call.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: I I guess maybe Jackie Sherrill.
57:00
SPEAKER_02: He had a few less losses, maybe a little more dominant.
57:03
SPEAKER_02: His players were a little better in the pros.
57:06
SPEAKER_02: You had Dan Marino, all those great pit defensive players, whereas I don't think Rodriguez had the as good a defensive players as Cheryl had.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: So uh what say you, Tim?
57:18
SPEAKER_02: Although Jack Rich Rodriguez probably had a little steeper climb with West Virginia and their recruiting, you know.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I'd give it to Cheryl.
57:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh again, very biased.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: But Rich Rod had that very innovative offense.
57:33
SPEAKER_00: That's why they were so good, is because they just had that offense that was really fast, really good.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, teams couldn't keep up with them.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: And then that that was one of those things that was always good enough to win you a bunch of games and never quite get you over the hump.
57:49
SPEAKER_02: And it is weird that he lost 13 to 9 to Pitt and then left and went to Michigan, and then Jackie Sherrill loses 48 to 14 to Penn State, but then I think the next year he leaves because they won't pay him enough money and he goes to uh I do believe Texas AM or no?
58:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was Texas, and he has a lot of success at Texas AM, where Richrod never really had much success in Michigan.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, that's a that's a very close one for sure.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: So you're I'm picking Cheryl, you're picking Cheryl, I guess.
58:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
58:23
SPEAKER_02: He at least was on a team, like when he was in a coordinator, like that won a national championship.
58:29
SPEAKER_02: So here's another one.
58:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
58:32
SPEAKER_02: We'll see what you think, Tim.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it isn't as close as I think it is, but this is who we'll finish up with.
58:39
SPEAKER_02: Tom Landry versus Chuck Noel.
58:42
SPEAKER_02: Tom Landry, 29-year head coach.
58:45
SPEAKER_02: He was the first head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: Did you know that?
58:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
58:50
SPEAKER_02: He was he was also a World War II veteran of the 8th Air Force bombing campaign.
58:54
SPEAKER_02: I I didn't know that.
58:56
SPEAKER_02: I did not know he was a World War II veteran.
58:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:59
SPEAKER_02: Of like uh for real, like he wasn't just hanging out in Germany somewhere, he like really went on missions bombing things.
59:05
SPEAKER_02: So um 250, 162, and six.
59:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was a two-time Super Bowl championship.
59:12
SPEAKER_02: He actually like, I don't know, invented, developed the 4-3 defense.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, the knock on him for years was he couldn't win the big one.
59:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, Chuck Knoll was uh 193, 148, and one um 22-year head coach, four-time Super Bowl champion.
59:32
SPEAKER_02: He actually had two championships as a player when he played in Cleveland.
59:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, he developed players more by drafting.
59:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, he had all homegrown players by the fourth Super Bowl.
59:42
SPEAKER_02: His defense was more of a blitzing defense with good linebacker play.
59:46
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know.
59:48
SPEAKER_02: This is I Tom Landry was around a long time and had a lot of success.
59:54
SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of a shame how they uh how what's his name?
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, did him at the end there.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_02: But I guess I'll pick Noel because of the more Super Bowl wins.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I I kind of hate the kid win the big one knock, but I mean he did win two times eventually.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_00: He did, yeah.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and one of those was in between the Steelers Super Bowls.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they beat Denver.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it it again, I'll use the same argument I made with Crosby over Ovechkin.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: Like when they played each other when it counted, you know, Noel won twice.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: So I mean that's that's all you can say is that you know now now if Landry wins one of those, say like the Cowboys win Super Bowl 13, because that was such a close game, you know, then that's then they both have three Super Bowls and they were one and one against each other, then it's a much more boy, then it's a tough one because because then because then they're they're other than those two Super Bowls against each other, they're very similar, Steve.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, they they both had amazing amounts of success.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: They were both innovative, they both were good team builders, and then they both kind of flamed out in the 80s.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: And you know, uh, so and it's and it felt like the game had kind of passed both of them by at that point.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_00: So they had very similar careers, but yeah, you have to give it to Noel.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_00: The other thing about Noel is like the the team he inherited was terrible, yeah.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just historically.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I mean, uh Landry was starting from scratch.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean in Dallas, I mean that was an expansion team.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean Yeah, that's true.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: It's not like he had yeah.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: So you're right.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_00: Again, like I said, very, very if if Landry, if we do an alternate history where Landry wins one of those two games, then it's I think then it then you have a much tougher debate on your hands.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: But with the you know what really happened, I it's just Noel won.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: Noel beat him twice in the Super Bowl, so it's got to be Noel.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, fair enough.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, we agree on that last one.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_02: There we go.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Dallas fans.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_02: Or not sorry, Dallas fans.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sorry.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sorry to the Dallas fans, the West Virginia fans, or the Pennsylvania fans.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_02: Wow, just putting it out there.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, as usual, thanks for listening.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_02: And there is no debate who has the best podcast on the internet.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: It is, of course, Joe Rogan.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_02: But uh, but uh yeah, we want to thank you all for listening, and we really appreciate it.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, please, we're gonna, you know, feel please feel free to debate all these on Facebook.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you know Tim handles most of the Facebook stuff.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_02: He'll be pay play posting lots of great stuff about this on Facebook.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_02: And this will make great Facebook fodder, won't it, Tim?
1:02:48
SPEAKER_02: It'll be this is what sports is all about, right?
1:02:51
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_02: But uh thank you for listening.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, check us out on all the Spotify's and all the other places we can get podcasts, and of course, check out our Facebook page.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_02: Um thank you, and God bless, and we'll check you out next time.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_02: Where it's set.