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When Your Pain Finally Finds Purpose · Surviving Narcissistic Abuse with Jill Wise

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Surviving Narcissistic Abuse with Jill Wise.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: I am so grateful you're here.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: If you're new to the podcast, my name is Jill Wise, and I am a lifelong survivor of narcissistic abuse, and I'm a narcissistic abuse recovery coach specializing in helping survivors understand narcissistic abuse, trauma bonds, complex PTSD, and the long, often difficult journey of rebuilding your life after psychological abuse.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Every week we take a deep dive into the psychology behind these relationships, not simply so you can better understand the narcissist, but so you can better understand yourself, because that is ultimately where healing begins.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: My goal is to help you stop living in confusion, stop blaming yourself for what happened, and begin building a life that feels peaceful, authentic, and genuinely fulfilling again.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: So wherever you're listening from today, thank you so much for joining me.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: I want to begin today's episode with a thought that completely changed the way I viewed every painful experience that I had ever been through.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: It's a realization that didn't come quickly, though, and it certainly didn't come while I was in the middle of surviving the abuse.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: It only became clear after years of healing, reflecting, and learning and asking myself difficult questions.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And the thought is this the moment you take more from the hardest thing that has ever happened to you than it took from you is the moment your life truly begins to change.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: And I want you to let that sink in for a minute because on the surface, it almost sounds impossible.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: How could I ever take more from something that nearly destroyed me?
1:55
SPEAKER_00: How could I ever say I gained something from years of manipulation, betrayal, gaslighting, lies, heartbreak, fear, and psychological abuse?
2:07
SPEAKER_00: If someone had to ask me that while I was living through it, I probably would have laughed or cried or both.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Because when you're in the middle of trauma, all you can see is what it's taking from you.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: It has an incredible way of making your life feel like a list of losses.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: You don't sit around counting what you've learned, you count what you've lost.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: You lost your confidence, you lost your peace, you lost your ability to trust people, you lost your sense of safety.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Some of you lost years of your lives trying to save someone who never intended to change.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Some of you lost relationships with family members who believed the narcissist's lies instead of believing you.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Some of you lost financial security.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Some of you lost your health because your body spent years flooded with stress hormones trying to survive an environment that never felt emotionally safe.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Some of you lost careers, homes, friendships, marriages, or even relationships with your own children because of parental alienation.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Whatever your story is, trauma has a way of convincing you that your life can now only be measured by everything that was taken away.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And if we're being completely honest, that's exactly how it feels for a long time.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Healing doesn't begin with purpose, healing begins with survival.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: When your nervous system has been living in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn for years, or for many of us decades, it isn't asking profound philosophical questions about meaning.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: It's simply trying to make it through another day.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: It's trying to determine whether today will finally be peaceful or whether another emotional explosion is waiting around the corner.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: It's wondering whether this apology is real or just another manipulation.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: It's scanning every conversation for hidden criticism.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: It's wondering why you suddenly feel guilty for saying no.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: It questions your own memory because you've spent years being told your reality wasn't real.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Your nervous system becomes organized around danger because danger became familiar.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: One of the greatest misconceptions about trauma is that people think it's something that happened to you in the past.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: But for many survivors of narcissistic abuse, trauma isn't experienced as something that's over.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Trauma is experienced as something that keeps happening inside our own body.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: That's why someone can leave the narcissist years ago and still find themselves startled by loud noises, terrified by conflict, overexplaining themselves, apologizing when they've done nothing wrong, or feeling guilty simply because someone else is disappointed.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: The relationship may have ended, but your nervous system hasn't received the memo yet.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: It's still operating as though survival depends on keeping everyone else happy.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: That's why I have such a difficult time when people casually tell survivors to just move on.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Those three words reveal a complete misunderstanding of trauma.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: You're not simply moving on from an unpleasant relationship.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: You're rebuilding an entire internal operating system that was slowly rewired over months, years, or sometimes decades.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Every manipulation changed something.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Every betrayal changed something.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Every broken promise changed something.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Every episode of gaslighting changed something.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Every time your reality was denied, your confidence weakened a little more.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Every time you accepted an apology that wasn't followed by change, your ability to trust your own instincts became a little more compromised.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Healing isn't about forgetting what happened.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Healing is about slowly rebuilding the parts of yourself that were systematically dismantled.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly where I think so many people unintentionally misunderstand what healing actually is.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: We often hear phrases like, oh my goodness, everything happens for a reason, or your pain made you stronger, or God has a purpose for your suffering.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: And while I understand the heart behind those sentiments, I also know they feel incredibly invalidating when someone is drowning in grief.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're barely holding yourself together, the last thing you want to hear is someone trying to convince you that what happened was somehow a gift.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Trauma doesn't feel like a gift.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Betrayal doesn't feel like a blessing.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Losing years of your life doesn't feel like an opportunity.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Those statements often come too early in the healing process.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's really important to mention here is that before we can ever begin asking what our pain might teach us, we first have to acknowledge what it cost us.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: We really, really have to acknowledge and validate the severity and the gravity of what we have lived through.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Because here's the reality: a person cannot change what they don't know how or can't or refuse to acknowledge.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: You cannot change something that isn't acknowledged.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Now hold on to that thought for a moment because I'm going to elaborate on it in just a minute.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: At the core of narcissistic abuse is psychological abuse.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: So victims have had their beliefs and perceptions about reality and the true role each person played in this relationship tampered with, intentionally manipulated, and dismantled.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Most all of us have been told that the abuse and every other negative, awful, horrible thing that happened during our relationship with the narcissist was our fault.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: We are the one and only responsible party for all of those things.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And the narcissist is the sole person responsible for any and all good things that happen during our relationship with them.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: So most of us, when we break away, are incredibly confused.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: We have no confidence in ourselves, our ability to know what's real and true.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a very difficult time.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: And the longer you're in the relationship with the narcissist, the deeper and more debilitating that that confusion will be.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Now, back to the statement I made that I ask you to remember, which is we can't change what we don't acknowledge.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And typically, we have never acknowledged or validated the very real fact that we are a victim of domestic abuse, coercive control, and psychological and mental abuse and manipulation.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Now, once that foundation has finally been established, once you've acknowledged the truth of what happened to you, validated the severity of the abuse, and stopped blaming yourself for what someone else deliberately chose to do, only then are you truly in a position to begin healing.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Because acknowledgement isn't the destination, it's the beginning, it's the doorway that allows the real work to finally start.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where we need to separate two ideas that are often confused with each other.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Pain and wisdom are not the same thing.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Pain does not automatically produce wisdom.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: If pain alone made people wiser, every traumatized person would become emotionally healthy.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Every abused child would grow into a secure adult.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Every betrayal would produce incredible emotional maturity.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: But that isn't what happens.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes pain produces wisdom, and sometimes it produces bitterness.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it produces compassion.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it produces fear.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it produces incredible resilience.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it produces emotional walls so high that nobody can ever get close again.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: Pain by itself is not transformative.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Pain is simply the raw material.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: What ultimately transforms us is what we choose to build with it after we've had the courage to finally face it.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: That truth, that reality has been withheld and hidden from us.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, many times because of that, it has also never been acknowledged or validated by ourselves, even though we lived it.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: That's how damaging the psychological abuse and manipulation can be for victims of long-term narcissistic abuse.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: And if we know that we cannot change what we don't acknowledge, then in my experience, the first step of healing is for the survivor to really and sincerely acknowledge and validate the fact that they are a victim.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: That's critical.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: And before tons of you leave me a comment stating you don't like the V-word or you don't want to view yourself as a victim, hear me out.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: The fact of the matter is we are a victim of abuse.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: That's just a fact.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: But acknowledging and validating this fact isn't so we can stay stuck in victimhood.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: We are doing this because by acknowledging it, it's the only way to change it for good.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: You can't change what you don't acknowledge.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: If you don't acknowledge the severity, the truth of what you've lived through and who truly played what role, you don't stand a chance at meaningful long-term healing.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: If you don't acknowledge this truth, not only will you likely stay stuck for years, decades, or even the entire rest of your life, experiencing debilitating levels of cognitive dissidence or the confusion people experience in traumatically bonded relationships.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: But it will also prevent you from doing the deep healing work that is necessary for someone who has lived through this.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: You will remain extremely vulnerable to getting involved with another narcissist, and you will likely never feel comfortable or confident making decisions in your life.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: By acknowledging the fact that you're a victim of extreme abuse, that is the first step.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: The springboard, the most important realization that will propel you into deep, meaningful, lifelong, true healing.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: If you never acknowledge that you are indeed a victim, then changing it will be impossible.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: I want you to imagine two people who both survive the exact same experience.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Both are lied to, both are manipulated, both are betrayed, both leave a relationship devastated.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Ten years later, one of them still sees themselves exclusively through the lens of what happened.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Every conversation eventually circles back to the abuse.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Every decision is driven by fear.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Every new relationship is filtered through suspicion.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: They never stopped living from the wound.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: The second person also remembers everything that happened.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: They haven't forgotten, they haven't minimized it, they haven't pretended it didn't hurt, but somewhere along the way, they became curious.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: They asked themselves difficult questions.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: They learned about attachment.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: They learned about trauma.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: They learned about boundaries.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: They learned why they ignored red flags.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: They learned why they tolerated behaviors that healthy people would have walked away from much sooner.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: They developed discernment.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: They became emotionally stronger.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: They became someone who could now recognize unhealthy dynamics almost immediately.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: They aren't living from denial, they're living from understanding.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: The difference between those two people isn't that one suffered more than the other.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: The difference is that one continued living from the wound while the other eventually began living from the wisdom the wound left behind.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the most beautiful transformations that can happen in recovery.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: There comes a day, and it usually arrives so gradually that you almost don't notice it, when the hardest thing that ever happened to you stops being the defining chapter of your life and starts becoming the chapter that introduced you to the strongest version of yourself you've ever known.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Not because you wanted the pain, not because you're grateful for the abuse, not because you would ever wish it on another human being, but because you refused to let it be meaningless.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: You refused to let it have the final word.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: You refused to spend the rest of your life carrying only the losses while leaving all of the lessons behind.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think that shift is where genuine transformation begins.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: One of the greatest ironies of healing is that we spend so much of our the early part of our recovery trying to get our old life back.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: We want to feel like we used to feel.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: I've said it myself.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: But when I really began looking at who the old me actually was, I had to be honest with myself.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: The old me ignored red flags because I wanted to believe the best in people.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: The old me over-explained my feelings because I desperately wanted to be understood.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: The old me tolerated disrespect far longer than I should have because I believed patience and unconditional love could heal another person's dysfunction.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: The old me confused potential with character.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: I confused chemistry with compatibility.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: I thought being needed meant I was loved.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I believed that if I could just explain myself one more time, love harder, sacrifice more, or become more understanding, eventually their relationship would become healthy.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: But those weren't strengths, those were vulnerabilities.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful vulnerabilities born out of compassion and empathy, yes, but vulnerabilities nonetheless.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: So why would I want to become that version of myself again?
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Why would I want to return to someone who couldn't yet recognize manipulation?
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Why would I want to return to someone who believed boundaries were somehow selfish?
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Why would I want to return to someone or a version of myself that constantly questioned her own intuition while giving everyone else the benefit of the doubt?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: The truthful answer to those questions is I wouldn't, and neither should you.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: I think one of the most profound moments in recovery happens when you stop trying to recover your old identity and begin creating a wiser one instead.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: That's not becoming bitter, that's becoming discerning.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: And those two things are often confused, but they couldn't be more different.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: A bitter person believes everyone is dangerous.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: A discerning person simply recognizes who is.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: A bitter person closes their heart to everyone.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: A discerning person opens their heart selectively.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: A bitter person experiences betrayal from everyone they meet.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: A discerning person pays attention long enough to determine whether trust has actually been earned.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: That's emotional maturity.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: That's healing.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is where survivors often underestimate just how much they've actually grown.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: You don't notice it because the changes happen very, very gradually.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Nobody wakes up one morning suddenly possessing extraordinary discernment.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: It develops quietly, one experience at a time, one boundary at a time, one difficult conversation at a time, one lesson at a time.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Eventually, you begin noticing little things.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That never registered before.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: You notice how someone talks about other people when they're not around.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: You notice whether someone's words consistently match their behavior.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: You notice how they respond when they don't get their way.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: You notice whether they apologize or whether they explain why everything was somehow your fault.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: You notice whether they become defensive whenever accountability enters the conversation.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: You notice whether they seem genuinely curious about your thoughts or whether every conversation somehow circles back to themselves.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Years ago, many of those things would have slipped right past you.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Now they almost jump out at you.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: That isn't because you've become cynical.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: It's because you've become educated.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the greatest gifts survivors often fail to appreciate.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: They think healing only consists of reducing symptoms.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: They measure progress by whether they cry less often, think about the narcissist less frequently, or experience fewer emotional flashbacks.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: And those things are certainly matter, but I don't think they're the greatest evidence of healing.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: The greatest evidence of healing is that you became someone who can recognize unhealthy dynamics long before they have the opportunity to completely consume your life.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: That skill is truly priceless.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And here's something else I find fascinating.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Most people believe wisdom comes from age.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: I think wisdom comes from honest reflection.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: I've met many people in their 20s who possess incredible emotional wisdom because they've spent years courageously examining themselves.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I've also met people in their 70s who continue repeating the same dysfunctional relationship patterns because they've never stopped long enough to ask themselves why.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Age gives you experiences, reflection gives you wisdom.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Those are two entirely different things.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: That's why some people grow older without ever really growing up.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's also why survivors who intentionally heal often become remarkably insightful.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Not because they wanted to, but because they had no choice.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: When your entire world falls apart, you begin asking questions most people never ask.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Why did I ignore what my intuition was telling me?
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Why did I stay?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Why did I keep believing promises that were never followed by change?
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Why did I confuse being chosen with being cherished?
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Why was I willing to abandon myself in order to put to preserve a relationship that was slowly destroying me?
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Those are incredibly uncomfortable questions, yes, but they're also transformational questions.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Because every honest answer reveals another piece of yourself.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: I've often said that narcissistic abuse forces you to become a student of human behavior.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: At first, you're studying the narcissist.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: You're trying to understand why they lie, uh, why they manipulate, why they cheat, why they gaslight, why they seem incapable of empathy, why they can hurt people without remorse.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: But eventually, something beautiful begins to happen.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Your attention shifts, you stop studying them, and you start studying yourself.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: You become curious about your attachment style, your childhood, your nervous system, your beliefs about love, your fears of abandonment, your tendency to overfunction in relationships, your need for external validation, your difficulty saying no.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: And that's when healing accelerates.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Because your future has very, very little to do with continuing to understand the narcissist.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Your future depends upon understanding yourself.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: That realization changed everything for me.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Because I finally understood something I wish someone had told me years earlier.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist is not your life assignment.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: You are.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist may have been the catalyst, the narcissist may have exposed wounds that were already there.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist may have introduced you to your deepest insecurities, but they are not the destination.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: You are, your healing is, your peace is, your future relationships are, your relationship with yourself is.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And once that becomes your focus, something extraordinary happens.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist slowly stops occupying center stage in your life, not because what they did suddenly becomes acceptable, and not because justice has finally been served, not because you've forgotten, but because you've become far more interested in building your future than repeatedly revisiting your past.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the quietest yet most profound signs of recovery.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: You stop waking up wondering what they're doing.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: You start waking up wondering what you're becoming.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: And that is a completely different way of living.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: One of the concepts I return to over and over in my own life is this.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Every painful experience leaves behind two things.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: It leaves behind a wound and it leaves behind wisdom.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: The wound arrives automatically.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: You don't choose it.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: But the wisdom that has to be gathered intentionally.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: It has to be searched for.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: It has to be earned through reflection and honesty and humility and courage.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why two people can survive remarkably similar experiences yet emerge as completely different human beings years later.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: One carries only the wound and the other carries the wisdom.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about you, but if I had to go through everything I've been through, if I had to endure all the heartbreak, the betrayal, confusion, grief, trauma, and profound loss, then I refuse to walk away carrying only the pain.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: I want the wisdom too.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm gonna pay that high of a price, I'm taking every single solitary lesson with me that I can.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: There is another realization that I don't think we talk about nearly enough in the healing community, and it's this.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist never intended to become one of your greatest teachers.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: They intended to become your greatest obstacle.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: They intended to become the person who controlled your life, dictated your emotions, determined your worth, and convinced you that you were incapable of existing without them.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Their goal was never your growth.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Their goal was your dependence.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: They wanted you questioning yourself, not trusting yourself.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: They wanted you doubting your instincts, not strengthening them.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: They wanted you emotionally exhausted because exhausted people are much easier to control than emotionally healthy people.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: But here's the irony.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: If you truly commit yourself to healing, something happens that they never saw coming.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: The very experience they intended to use to diminish you, to destroy your life becomes the experience that introduces you to strengths you may have never discovered otherwise.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Now I want to be very careful with what I'm about to say here because I never want anyone listening to think that I'm suggesting abuse is somehow necessary for growth.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that for a second.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Um there are countless ways we can grow without ever experiencing narcissistic abuse.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: What I am saying is that once the damage has already been done, you have a decision to make.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Or option two, you can become absolutely determined that if this happened to you, it's going to produce something valuable inside of you.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Not because the abuse was good, the abuse was horrible and should have never happened.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: It is most certainly not good.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: It was destructive, it was cruel, it was unfair, and for the vast majority of us, we never saw any justice.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't change the fact that it happened.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: It happened, and there's nothing we can do to go back in time and change things.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: God knows.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: I wish I had had a time machine a million times in this nightmare, but I don't.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: And neither do you.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: But the good news is, and the God's honest truth is, you still get to decide whether destruction is the final chapter of your story.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite ways to think about healing is to imagine yourself becoming a collector of wisdom.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Think about that phrase for a minute.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Because most people become collectors of possessions.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Some become collectors of accomplishments, others may collect titles or money or recognition or status.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: But what if your greatest collection became wisdom?
33:42
SPEAKER_00: What if every painful season of your life left you with another piece of understanding that no one could ever take away from you?
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Every betrayal teaches you something about discernment.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Every disappointment teaches you something about expectations.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Every heartbreak teaches you something about attachment.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Every difficult goodbye teaches you something about self-respect.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Every boundary you finally enforce teaches you something about your own value.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: And over time, you stop looking at your life as a series of tragedies and begin seeing it as a series of lessons that slowly shaped the person sitting here today.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: This is one of the biggest reasons I think survivors become such incredible coaches and therapists and advocates and helpers for healing.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Because wisdom has a completely different quality than information.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Information can be memorized.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Wisdom has to be lived.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: You can read every book ever written on narcissistic abuse.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: And I certainly encourage people to educate themselves.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Education is incredibly important.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: But reading about trauma and surviving trauma are two very different experiences.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Reading about gaslighting is not the same as sitting across from someone who convinces you that your own memory can't be trusted.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Reading about trauma bonds is not the same as desperately missing someone who repeatedly abused you and caused extreme damage and destruction in your life.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Reading about hypervigilance is not the same as lying awake at two o'clock in the morning replaying every conversation, trying to determine whether you're somehow the problem.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Experience, experience is the only thing that changes information into wisdom.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: That's why I believe survivors possess something incredibly valuable that often goes unrecognized.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: They don't simply understand pain intellectually, they understand it experimentally.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: They recognize the look in someone's eyes when they're emotionally exhausted because they've worn the same expression themselves.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: They hear hesitation in someone's voice because they remember what it felt like to question every single thought they had.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: They don't have empathy because someone taught them empathy.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: They have empathy because suffering expanded their capacity to recognize it in other people.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And I think that may be one of the most beautiful things that can come from our healing.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Your deepest wound often becomes the place from which your greatest compassion grows.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Think about the people who have impacted your life the most.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Chances are they weren't the people who had perfect lives.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: They were the people who had survived something extremely difficult and somehow found a way to transform it into wisdom they could offer someone else.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: There is something incredibly comforting about sitting across from someone who doesn't just understand your pain academically, but understands it because they have walked through their own version of darkness.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: They don't rush you, they don't shame you for how long it's taking, they don't tell you just get over it.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: They understand that healing isn't linear because they lived it themselves.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: I think one of the greatest mistakes we make in recovery is believing that healing means becoming the person who never struggles again.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: That's not healing, that's perfectionism.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Just wearing a different hat.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Healing doesn't mean you'll never feel grief again.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you'll never have another emotional flashback, unfortunately.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you'll never encounter another manipulative person.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Healing means that when those moments come, you respond from wisdom instead of survival.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: That's the difference.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Years ago, disappointment may have immediately convinced you that you had done something wrong.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Today, you pause before accepting responsibility that doesn't belong to you.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Years ago, someone else's anger automatically might have become your emergency.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Today, you recognize that another person's emotional dysregulation isn't necessarily your responsibility to fix.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Years ago, loneliness may have tempted you to return to relationships that were emotionally starving you.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Today, you've learned that temporary loneliness is far less painful than permanent self-abandonment.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's wisdom.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: It's quiet, it doesn't announce itself, it simply changes the decisions you make.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: One of the questions I ask myself now whenever something painful happens is this.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: What is this trying to teach me?
39:50
SPEAKER_00: Not because I enjoy pain, because I certainly don't, but because I've learned that pain almost always arrives carrying information.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's teaching me where I need stronger boundaries.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's exposing expectations I didn't even realize I was carrying.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's revealing a fear I haven't fully healed.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's reminding me that I'm trying to control things that simply aren't mine to control.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: The lesson isn't always obvious in the beginning.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it takes months, sometimes it takes years.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: But eventually, if I'm willing to be honest with myself, the wisdom begins to emerge.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the shift that changes everything, you guys.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Instead of asking, why did this happen to me?
40:47
SPEAKER_00: You begin asking, what can this experience teach me about myself?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Do you hear the difference?
40:55
SPEAKER_00: The first question keeps you your attention fixed on the event.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: The second question turns your attention inward.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: One searches for someone to blame and the other searches for an opportunity to grow.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean we ignore accountability.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: If someone abused you, they are responsible for their behavior.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: Nothing I'm saying here today changes that.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: But after accountability is has been assigned where it belongs, there is still another question waiting for us.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Who am I going to become because of this?
41:35
SPEAKER_00: That is one of the few things the narcissist never gets to decide.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: They may have influenced a chapter of your life, but they do not get to write the ending.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps that's why I love the idea we started this episode with so much.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: The day you take more from your pain than it took from you, the day you carry away discernment instead of confusion, boundaries instead of people pleasing, self respect instead of self doubt, emotional intelligence instead of emotional dependency, peace instead of chaos, that is the day your pain begins losing power over you.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: Because something extraordinary has happened.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: You no longer see yourself as someone who simply survived.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: You see yourself as someone who was transformed, not by the narcissist, but by the courageous decision to heal.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: There is one final idea that I want to leave you with today because I truly believe it has the power to change the way you look at your entire life.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: I think one of the greatest tragedies of narcissistic abuse isn't simply the abuse itself.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: It's that so many survivors unknowingly continue allowing the abuse to shape their future long after the relationship has ended.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist may no longer be physically present, yet they continue occupying space in the survivor's mind.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Every decision becomes filtered through what happened.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Every opportunity is weighed against the possibility of getting hurt again.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Every new relationship is compared to the last one.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: Every compliment is questioned, every act of kindness is examined for hidden motives.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: Every moment of happiness is interrupted by the fear that something bad is inevitably coming.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: In other words, the abuse may be over, but the influence isn't.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: And I don't say that to discourage you.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: I say it because recognizing it is a first step towards changing it.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: You see, trauma.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Trauma has a tendency to become an identity if we're not careful.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Not intentionally, and certainly not because we're weak.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Pain simply has an incredible way of introducing itself before anything else.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: People ask who we are, and somewhere in our own minds we answer I'm the woman who survived narcissistic abuse, or I'm the man whose wife cheated, I'm the child who grew up with narcissistic parents, I'm the person who was betrayed, I'm the one who was abandoned.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: Those things may all be true, but they are descriptions of experiences.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: They are not definitions of your identity.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: There is a profound difference.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: One describes something that happened to you, the other determines who you believe you are.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Healing requires that distinction because if your greatest pain becomes your identity, then your future will always remain connected to your past.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: But when your greatest pain becomes your greatest teacher, everything changes.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: Now your future is connected to your wisdom instead.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: I remember years ago believing that if I could somehow just erase everything that happened, then I'd finally be okay.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to rewind my life.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to go back before the manipulation, before the lies, before the trauma, before the confusion.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: I wanted my innocence back.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: I wanted my trust back.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: I wanted my peace back.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: But eventually I realized something.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: The woman sitting here today isn't someone I would erase.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: She's stronger, she's calmer, she's more emotionally intelligent, she recognizes manipulation almost immediately.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't chase people who withdraw their affection.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't feel responsible for fixing everyone else's emotions.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: She no longer mistakes intensity for intimacy.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: She understands that love without respect isn't love at all.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: She knows that consistency is far more valuable than chemistry.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: She trusts her intuition in ways she never did before.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: She has learned that boundaries don't push healthy people away.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: They reveal who was benefiting from your lack of them.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: None of those things existed in me to the degree they do now.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: And while I never chose the road that taught me those lessons, I refuse to waste the lessons because I didn't choose the road.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: That, I believe, is where healing reaches an entirely different level.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: You're no longer asking yourself how to stop hurting, you're asking yourself how to honor what your suffering taught you.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Those are two completely different conversations.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: I think many survivors spend years waiting to feel like the pain never happened.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that that's the goal.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: I think the goal is reaching a place where the pain no longer introduces itself first.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: The wisdom does.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: When someone asks you about your life, you don't immediately begin with the abuse.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: You begin with who you've become.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: When you're faced with a difficult decision, you don't respond from fear.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: You respond from discernment.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: When someone crosses a boundary, you don't spend six months wondering whether you're being too sensitive.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: You calmly recognize that someone who repeatedly disrespects your boundaries is giving you information about who they are and you believe them.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: When someone shows you inconsistency, you no longer invent potential that doesn't exist.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: You pay attention to reality instead of possibility.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: That is emotional freedom.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Not because difficult people will disappear from the world, because they won't.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: There will always be manipulative people, there will always be selfish people, there will always be narcissists.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Healing isn't about creating a world where those people no longer exist.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: Healing is about becoming someone they can no longer successfully manipulate.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: That is an entirely different goal, and I think it's much more empowering.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite quotes says, Life isn't about waiting for this storm to pass.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: It's about learning to dance in the rain.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the sentiment, but if I were to rewrite it for survivors of narcissistic abuse, I think I'd say something different.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: Life isn't about pretending the storm never happened.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: It's about becoming someone who now knows how to build a stronger house.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: That's what healing is.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: You don't become someone who never experiences another storm.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: You become someone who recognizes the warning signs earlier.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: You become someone who refuses to ignore the cracks in the foundation.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: You become someone who values peace more than excitement, consistency more than intensity, and emotional safety more than empty promises.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: You become someone who finally understands that love should never require you to betray yourself.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's the greatest transformation of all.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Because the narcissist spent years teaching you to abandon yourself.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Healing teaches you to come home to yourself.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: That may be the most important lesson you'll ever learn.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: I want to leave you today with the same thought we started with, because I hope you'll carry it with you long after this episode ends.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: The moment you take more from the hardest thing that has ever happened to you than it took from you is the moment your life truly begins to change.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: Not because your past suddenly disappears, not because justice was served, not because you'll never grieve what was lost, but because you've made a decision.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: You've decided that if life handed you unimaginable pain, you are going to extract unimaginable wisdom from it.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: You're going to develop discernment that protects your peace, boundaries that protect your heart, self-respect that protects your future, compassion that allows you to help others, and a level of emotional intelligence no one can ever take away from you.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: Because here's what I've come to believe.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: The narcissist may have taken years, they may have taken money, they may have taken relationships, they may have taken confidence, they may have taken opportunities.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: But if you choose to heal, they don't get the wisdom.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: The wisdom belongs to you, the discernment belongs to you, the resilience belongs to you.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: The peace belongs to you.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, your future belongs to you.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to thank you so much for spending this time with me today.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: I hope this episode encouraged you to look at your own story through a different lens, not to minimize your pain or to pretend it didn't matter, but to recognize that you still have the power to decide what it ultimately produces in your life.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Your story is not over, and I truly believe your greatest chapters are still ahead of you.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: I truly believe that the best is yet to come.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: And if this episode resonated with you and you're trying to make sense of your own experiences with narcissistic abuse, trauma bonds, pathological manipulation, or complex PTSD, I do work with clients privately, and I also have additional resources available to support your healing journey.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: You can learn more about my private coaching, my comprehensive recovery course, and my recovery circle community by visiting my website at www.jillwise.com.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: I would love the opportunity to walk alongside you as you continue your healing journey.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: And if you found today's episode helpful, I would be so grateful if you would subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who may need to hear this message today.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: You never know whose life might change simply because you took a moment to pass hope along.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember this.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Your greatest strength will never be found in what happened to you.