Latest / The Mixed Company Podcast / TMCP Ep 16: Canelo vs Crawford Updates, Rehydration Clauses and More

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TMCP Ep 16: Canelo vs Crawford Updates, Rehydration Clauses and More · The Mixed Company Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: In this corner standing it six foot five, weight class
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Speaker 1: unknown hailing from Sin City, Las Vegas. Jamison Welch and
0:12
Speaker 1: in this corner standing in five foot nine, Wayne Towns
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Speaker 1: with six wins, three losses, two arrests, four late.
0:21
Speaker 2: Payments on student loans.
0:23
Speaker 1: And two total bankruptcies hits Doug Classy, I'll go home,
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Speaker 1: Thank you.
0:33
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another edition of the Mixed Company Podcast.
0:37
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm one of your hosts, Jamison Welsh. As always,
0:41
Speaker 2: I enjoyed my v Classy alcoholic Classy.
0:43
Speaker 3: What's going on, Jamison? You know what?
0:46
Speaker 4: I am actually feeling kind of feisty today, and it's
0:49
Speaker 4: not just because of the chief tequilab and pounding all morning.
0:52
Speaker 4: There's some updates on the potential fight of the year
0:55
Speaker 4: that I wanted to talk about. Some people may not
0:57
Speaker 4: think these changes are a big deal, but I think
0:59
Speaker 4: they have bigger implications for the state of boxing today
1:02
Speaker 4: and it's a good follow up to the discussion that
1:04
Speaker 4: we had.
1:04
Speaker 3: In our last episode. So you want to dive in.
1:09
Speaker 4: Absolutely all right, So the big fight, Canelo Alvarez versus
1:14
Speaker 4: Bud Crawford was officially announced a few weeks ago by
1:16
Speaker 4: Saudi boxing promoter Turkey Ella Shake. He said it would
1:19
Speaker 4: be Friday September twelfth the Allegiant Stadium in Vegas, your
1:22
Speaker 4: neck of the woods. But just a couple of days
1:24
Speaker 4: ago he announced on Twitter that oopsie, the fight is
1:27
Speaker 4: actually now on Saturday, September thirteenth. Why because a Legion
1:32
Speaker 4: stadium wasn't actually available at that unov is playing Idaho
1:37
Speaker 4: State and Allegiant on the twelfth, So not only is
1:39
Speaker 4: the date different, but now there's a chance to fight
1:41
Speaker 4: won't even be in Vegas the story as it could
1:44
Speaker 4: be in New York or LA. And you know what,
1:47
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, but this is bush league shit. You're a
1:50
Speaker 4: billionaire promoter who supposedly cares so much about saving the
1:54
Speaker 4: sport of boxing, and I'm sure you have a team
1:56
Speaker 4: of hundreds of people around you and you can't even
1:58
Speaker 4: be bothered to check the sign in sheet for the
2:00
Speaker 4: take you announced, Like I seem, it may not seem
2:03
Speaker 4: like much, but to me, it's just one more example
2:06
Speaker 4: of Turkeyela Ship trying to trying to flex his ownership
2:09
Speaker 4: of the sport. And then the important details like where
2:11
Speaker 4: when the fight will actually happen, and you know we'll
2:14
Speaker 4: cross that border when we come to it. That is important,
2:17
Speaker 4: not as important as making sure I'm front and center
2:19
Speaker 4: and people know I'm the guy making all these events
2:21
Speaker 4: happen happening, and it's a it's a little it's a
2:25
Speaker 4: little disappointing and just kind of bugs me out, for
2:28
Speaker 4: you know, what the state of boxing is and the
2:30
Speaker 4: Saudi money that goes into it.
2:31
Speaker 3: But what's your take? Am I onto something or am
2:34
Speaker 3: I just being dramatic?
2:35
Speaker 2: I think, first and the foremost nation have gotten what
2:38
Speaker 2: unov to move that football game to Friday. That could
2:41
Speaker 2: have been done. I think if you talk to the
2:44
Speaker 2: if it goes down properly, there's too much money involved,
2:46
Speaker 2: Like there's too much money at stake, right, There's ways
2:49
Speaker 2: to get things taken care of. That's the first thing. Secondly,
2:51
Speaker 2: most importantly is this. It feels like the monetary value
2:57
Speaker 2: of things is getting the preferential treatment more than the
3:03
Speaker 2: boxing itself. We're not talking about boxing actually anymore. We're
3:06
Speaker 2: just talking about how much money is at stake. And
3:09
Speaker 2: I think that is not a good sign, only because
3:12
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, the boxing is still
3:13
Speaker 2: the boxing and the quality is bad. People will now
3:16
Speaker 2: you know, all because boxer was making a bunch your money.
3:18
Speaker 2: That's fine. Never wont to take away from that. However,
3:21
Speaker 2: if the quality is batter we're just throwing matches together,
3:25
Speaker 2: throw money at it, then we have a totally different
3:28
Speaker 2: issue at hand.
3:30
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And look, I'm not gonna be a hypocrite here.
3:33
Speaker 4: If you listen to the previous episode when the fight.
3:36
Speaker 3: Was announced, I was hooting and hollering.
3:38
Speaker 4: You know, I was excited. I'm still excited about the fight,
3:40
Speaker 4: and I said, you know, credit to all the shake
3:44
Speaker 4: for putting this out there. So I'm not going to
3:46
Speaker 4: change that and say that you know, I'm no longer
3:49
Speaker 4: excited that this was bullshit all all along. But you know,
3:51
Speaker 4: we've had discussions about Saudi money and boxing, Saudi money
3:56
Speaker 4: and boxing before, and I'm just getting more and more
3:58
Speaker 4: down on the whole idea. You know, you said that
4:00
Speaker 4: not all money is good money, and you know, I
4:03
Speaker 4: worry if the quality of the fights that we had
4:07
Speaker 4: on Secret Tomia Weekend on side of money is going
4:10
Speaker 4: to continue.
4:11
Speaker 3: Where is this going to lead our sport, our favorite
4:13
Speaker 3: sport in the world.
4:15
Speaker 2: So it's a gift in the curse because we're getting
4:17
Speaker 2: matchups like we wanted to get Canal versus Crawford, so
4:20
Speaker 2: that's a matchup we all want to see. So this
4:23
Speaker 2: is what it took to get it. We kind of
4:24
Speaker 2: live with it now. All that being said, how long
4:27
Speaker 2: does this work? How long does this last? Man? If
4:30
Speaker 2: they're just trying to put money into a sport to
4:34
Speaker 2: flex their muscle, then I don't know.
4:36
Speaker 4: Now.
4:36
Speaker 2: If they're serious about making the sport better and making
4:39
Speaker 2: sure we get the best matchups, that's cool too. I
4:42
Speaker 2: just don't see the return on the investment. Outside of course,
4:44
Speaker 2: the Canal and Property fight. That's a totally different thing,
4:47
Speaker 2: But in general, I don't see the return on investment. However,
4:50
Speaker 2: they may not be in it for that. They might
4:52
Speaker 2: be in it for to make their presence known in
4:54
Speaker 2: American sports. So there's a lot of things here in
4:57
Speaker 2: play that we don't know the exact I would have
5:00
Speaker 2: just yet. Things could change and might change going forward,
5:04
Speaker 2: but as of right now, there's full a lot of
5:05
Speaker 2: things that are unclear right And.
5:08
Speaker 4: The more time that passes, the more I am of
5:10
Speaker 4: the opinion that you know, they're flexing their muscle in
5:14
Speaker 4: the boxing world, in the sporting world, et cetera. But
5:18
Speaker 4: I guess I think it's going to come back to
5:21
Speaker 4: a bigger issue overall that we have in this country
5:24
Speaker 4: that anytime a rich guy says jump, you know where
5:26
Speaker 4: everybody's falling all over themselves. People are treating having a
5:29
Speaker 4: lot of money as a virtue and an expertise in
5:32
Speaker 4: all things. And I'm just tired. It's just I think
5:35
Speaker 4: it needs to stop. I think this guy comes in,
5:38
Speaker 4: you know, these are turcula she a literal billionaire, mind you.
5:41
Speaker 4: So he comes in, buys up the ring magazine, sets
5:44
Speaker 4: up all these fights, and everybody acts like it's the
5:46
Speaker 4: greatest thing that's ever happened, without asking these questions that
5:49
Speaker 4: we're asking right now. You know, what is it going
5:51
Speaker 4: to happen to the sport? What's going to happen if
5:54
Speaker 4: you know we talked about last time, there is a
5:56
Speaker 4: saudy monopoly on boxing.
5:58
Speaker 3: It's not quite there, but it's pretty close. And uh,
6:02
Speaker 3: I don't know.
6:03
Speaker 4: I think that we're seeing a lot of we're seeing
6:07
Speaker 4: a lot of unintended consequences or tangential consequences to the
6:11
Speaker 4: boxing world that it's not making me optimistic.
6:16
Speaker 2: Oh well, I will put it this way. If we
6:19
Speaker 2: get the matchups we want to see. We won't care.
6:22
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing. At the end of the day.
6:23
Speaker 2: As long we get the matchups and the fights are good,
6:27
Speaker 2: we're not going to trip over the business part of it.
6:29
Speaker 2: I think the only time we'll trip over the business
6:31
Speaker 2: part is of money doesn't get paid out, or if
6:34
Speaker 2: there's some funny stuff with the contracts something like that.
6:39
Speaker 2: But as long as the fights are good and the
6:41
Speaker 2: money's paid out, I don't think we're gonna have an
6:45
Speaker 2: issue unless they're trying to force political messages through the sport,
6:51
Speaker 2: and that's a whole different thing, and I don't think
6:52
Speaker 2: you can really do that. So, you know, I think
6:55
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if the boxing is
6:58
Speaker 2: of quality, we won't care. What'll we have be actually,
7:01
Speaker 2: but the back end has to be a lot cleaner,
7:04
Speaker 2: and we're used to megafights being cleaner when it comes
7:08
Speaker 2: to location, when it comes to dates, when it comes
7:11
Speaker 2: to all that stuff. They want to have it in Vegas.
7:13
Speaker 2: Vegas has a football stadium. If they can't have it
7:16
Speaker 2: in Vegas on that Saturday, they have other options. They
7:20
Speaker 2: got Vegas, they have La they got Arizona, they got
7:23
Speaker 2: New York, they got Houston, every put every big city
7:27
Speaker 2: in this country, they got Dallas. Every big city in
7:30
Speaker 2: this country has a football stadium where they can put
7:33
Speaker 2: seventy thousand people in the stadium to watch two guys
7:37
Speaker 2: slug it out. So I'm not as concerned in general.
7:42
Speaker 2: I'm just more intrigued on what's the overall play here,
7:46
Speaker 2: because we've seen the Saudi money get involved with golf,
7:51
Speaker 2: We're seeing them being a rumored getting involved in other
7:54
Speaker 2: professional sports. They're all in and boxing. They're the ones
7:57
Speaker 2: getting guys paid, which is good and bad. I'm just
8:02
Speaker 2: trying to see the overall player. Are they trying to
8:03
Speaker 2: control boxing? Are they trying to like what's the end game?
8:07
Speaker 2: That's what I'm more concerned about.
8:10
Speaker 4: Well, and on this kind of same note, you know,
8:13
Speaker 4: I've been learning some more within the last couple of weeks,
8:16
Speaker 4: and you know, there's I found out that there's a
8:19
Speaker 4: lot of Saudi money in Arizona. They're buying farmland to
8:22
Speaker 4: grow alfalfa to ship off ti Airs, and this is
8:24
Speaker 4: something I didn't know until recently. They're watering alfalfa, shipping
8:28
Speaker 4: it off back to the Saudi Arabia, and they're using
8:30
Speaker 4: a lot of our water here in the desert to
8:32
Speaker 4: do that, and it's all legal. It's all above board,
8:35
Speaker 4: nothing shady, nothing, you know, behind the scenes, but it's
8:37
Speaker 4: concerning you know, the problem that well I shouldn't even
8:41
Speaker 4: say problem, but the thing that has come up is,
8:43
Speaker 4: you know, there's some officials that are trying to stop that,
8:45
Speaker 4: but everyone's saying, like, hey man, they put in legit money,
8:48
Speaker 4: they put in a legit bid, They're using the water
8:50
Speaker 4: as per the rules.
8:51
Speaker 3: The problem is the rules suck.
8:53
Speaker 4: You know, there's no limit to what they can use,
8:55
Speaker 4: and you know it's it's it's gonna hurt us very
8:57
Speaker 4: very soon here in Arizona. And they know it's the
9:00
Speaker 4: Colorado River, which we share with this entire area. So yeah,
9:05
Speaker 4: this is tangentially related, but I bring it up because
9:08
Speaker 4: it's it's part of the same basic discussion of you know,
9:10
Speaker 4: we're where is going to happen to all this when
9:13
Speaker 4: all of this money and whatever the political issues with
9:17
Speaker 4: Saudi or a b are. You know, at the end
9:18
Speaker 4: of the day, the people high up here in this
9:21
Speaker 4: country will not care as long as the money's right.
9:24
Speaker 4: You know, although that goes out the window. You know,
9:26
Speaker 4: human rights abuses you know all that stuff, it will
9:30
Speaker 4: not matter.
9:30
Speaker 3: So I just kind of wish that, you know, my.
9:33
Speaker 4: Favorite sport wasn't part of this whole concerning, you know,
9:38
Speaker 4: issue that we get off that we've got going on.
9:40
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
9:43
Speaker 2: This all started with HBO, when HB got out of
9:46
Speaker 2: the box, and that was the first sign that there's trouble.
9:49
Speaker 2: Not saying it was into the world, but I was
9:51
Speaker 2: the first sign. And then the PBC thing on Fox
9:54
Speaker 2: and CBS. Once that ended, once the esp and stuff ended,
10:00
Speaker 2: it's been a slow crawl like, hey man, what's going
10:02
Speaker 2: on because there's no there was no solution, there was
10:05
Speaker 2: no set like, hey, we're gonna go to Amazon now
10:07
Speaker 2: and everything's Amazon. No, not really, So this has been
10:12
Speaker 2: going on for quite a while now. We Showtime got
10:15
Speaker 2: out the business, HBO, ESPN, PBC, everyone's from much got
10:20
Speaker 2: out the business, sept dis owned, and that's really about it.
10:27
Speaker 2: So there was a need for somebody to come in
10:29
Speaker 2: with money that can put money toward the sport. So
10:32
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily fault this audience. I'm just trying to
10:35
Speaker 2: figure out what the hell is the overall goal of
10:38
Speaker 2: this thing? Is this a short term play. Is this
10:40
Speaker 2: how it's gonna be from here on out? Because American
10:43
Speaker 2: businesses and outlets are not invested money in it, They're
10:46
Speaker 2: just neither tell you that we don't believe to put
10:50
Speaker 2: money into this product.
10:53
Speaker 4: Well, and you said you said it best that as
10:55
Speaker 4: long as the fights are good, nobody's gonna care.
10:57
Speaker 3: But here's the what if they continue not being good?
11:00
Speaker 4: Like everybody everybody was disappointed by Secret to My Weekend
11:03
Speaker 4: on you know, the Canela fight, the Times Square thing.
11:06
Speaker 4: You know what's gonna happen if that can that trend
11:10
Speaker 4: continues and everyone just says, man, we're not gonna watch
11:13
Speaker 4: these fights. We're not gonna pay for this pay per view,
11:15
Speaker 4: and the Saudi's aren't making their return on their investment.
11:18
Speaker 2: If we get the matchups that we want, I think
11:20
Speaker 2: will be okay. I think a big part of Single
11:22
Speaker 2: to My A Weekend was the matchups really weren't that
11:25
Speaker 2: great outside of like ro League and uh like, it
11:29
Speaker 2: really wasn't that great matchup wise, right, Like we knew
11:32
Speaker 2: why Canola was fighting, we knew the reason why. It
11:35
Speaker 2: wasn't like, oh that's a primetime fight. Naw, it's just
11:37
Speaker 2: tuned up fight for September. You know, but if you
11:42
Speaker 2: have like a hyped up Mega weekend, let's say there's
11:46
Speaker 2: Canela Crawford, and let's say you gotta hypathetically a secure
11:51
Speaker 2: Boots or something like that or something of that kind
11:53
Speaker 2: of nature, and it don't go according to plan, then yeah,
11:56
Speaker 2: that ain't gonna fly. Man, That ain't gonna That ain't
11:57
Speaker 2: gonna work. You know, you need the premium nights. You
12:02
Speaker 2: need to have good, good fights with good results and
12:04
Speaker 2: good action. So that's what I'm kind of curious on
12:07
Speaker 2: how that works. But I think as long as we
12:10
Speaker 2: get the matchups we want, we'll live with the results
12:13
Speaker 2: because we want the matchup. We went so long without
12:16
Speaker 2: getting matches you wanted to see for whatever reason there was.
12:20
Speaker 2: I think we're preconditioned to automatically think doom and gloom
12:24
Speaker 2: when it comes to that. But I honestly think if
12:26
Speaker 2: we get the right matchups, we're not gonna worry bout
12:28
Speaker 2: anything else.
12:30
Speaker 4: That's fair And you know, let's be real, neither of us,
12:34
Speaker 4: you know, we can't tell the future. We know what's
12:37
Speaker 4: going on, but anything could happen, you know, with the
12:39
Speaker 4: rest of this year, with the who know, Canelo Crawford
12:42
Speaker 4: as excited as I have been. We've been talking about
12:44
Speaker 4: Canelo Crawford since the pilot episode of this show.
12:46
Speaker 3: It's been sort of a through line the entire way.
12:49
Speaker 4: So, but what if that fights really really sucks and
12:52
Speaker 4: it's boring as shit.
12:53
Speaker 3: It could happen, you never know.
12:55
Speaker 4: I don't believe so, I don't think Bud is a
12:58
Speaker 4: boring fighter.
13:00
Speaker 3: But you never know what could happen, you know.
13:02
Speaker 4: So it's Canelo's he says that, you know, he's he
13:06
Speaker 4: fought injured against people, and that's why his performance wasn't
13:08
Speaker 4: very good. You know, let's say let's just say, let's
13:10
Speaker 4: let's take him as a word to believe that, what
13:12
Speaker 4: if Budd is a little messed up and you know,
13:14
Speaker 4: whether he rolls his eeg a little bit, whatever it is,
13:16
Speaker 4: He's he's not going to back out of the fight
13:17
Speaker 4: because there's a huge bag at the end of it.
13:22
Speaker 4: But what of his performance is disappointing and everyone just
13:25
Speaker 4: you know, this fight that we've been talking to you
13:26
Speaker 4: and I have been talking about for a year now,
13:29
Speaker 4: I don't know.
13:30
Speaker 3: It's it's a fight though.
13:32
Speaker 2: The only thing I would say about this one is
13:34
Speaker 2: a legacy fight to where both guys win a loser draw.
13:39
Speaker 2: This is a fight that's gonna come up when we
13:40
Speaker 2: discussed them, especially Bud Right, but has not fought anyone
13:44
Speaker 2: close to Canelo, like, not even close, Like we can't
13:47
Speaker 2: the Earl Spence he fought a couple of years ago
13:49
Speaker 2: is not even close to in the neighborhood of what
13:51
Speaker 2: Canelo is even now, even Canelo passes Prime or whatever
13:55
Speaker 2: it might be, not not even close. So this is
13:59
Speaker 2: a fight that whoever wins or whoever loves Orf, we
14:01
Speaker 2: have multiple of them, they will mention this opponent first
14:07
Speaker 2: when it comes to breaking down what happened. That's how
14:09
Speaker 2: good of a matchup I think it can be. Now,
14:12
Speaker 2: of course, it could be a dull fight because Crawford's
14:15
Speaker 2: definitely a CounterPunch guy. He loves around a lot. He
14:18
Speaker 2: uses his athletic ability to speed and at times he's
14:21
Speaker 2: the aggressor. Older Canelo is more of a wait and
14:25
Speaker 2: seek type of guy. He's not as aggressive as he
14:27
Speaker 2: once was as a younger guy as well, So there's
14:31
Speaker 2: there's a part of this fight that could be more
14:34
Speaker 2: of I think it will have his parts where it's
14:36
Speaker 2: very intriguing for the true boxing fans, I think it's
14:38
Speaker 2: gonna be dope. I think for the general public that
14:41
Speaker 2: watches boxing every blue moon, they may be a bit disappointed.
14:44
Speaker 2: But for us purest I think it's gonna be a
14:45
Speaker 2: hell of chess match for twelve men rounds. I don't
14:48
Speaker 2: think anyone's gonna get dropped, but I think it's gonna
14:50
Speaker 2: be held a chess match, going back and forth and
14:52
Speaker 2: adjustments and saying who can do what. And I think
14:55
Speaker 2: we'll have a good fight with moments. I think it
14:58
Speaker 2: will have good moments in the fight. I don't think
15:00
Speaker 2: we have one through twelve consistent hell raising rounds. I
15:03
Speaker 2: don't see that part. No, that these guys are too
15:06
Speaker 2: old for that. Sure.
15:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I recently went back to rewatch
15:12
Speaker 4: the highlights of Canelo versus Billy Joe Sunders.
15:14
Speaker 3: That was in twenty twenty.
15:15
Speaker 4: One, and it's wild how different Canelo moved back then
15:19
Speaker 4: compared to now, you know.
15:20
Speaker 3: Not, even with the I thought that the Berlanga fight
15:23
Speaker 3: was really exciting, you know not.
15:24
Speaker 4: Berlang is not a great fighter, and Canelo is definitely better,
15:28
Speaker 4: but Cano Berlango was big and beefy, and that made
15:31
Speaker 4: a difference and there were a lot of punches thrown,
15:33
Speaker 4: and I was I found it a very exciting match.
15:37
Speaker 4: But just compared to good Canelo now to twenty twenty
15:41
Speaker 4: one against Sonders, Holy shit, you watch those highlights and
15:44
Speaker 4: that man was was still a smooth, slick, fast neck moving.
15:49
Speaker 3: You know, left and right. This time he's just he's
15:51
Speaker 3: just stiff.
15:52
Speaker 4: So but again that's a good that's a good advantage,
15:55
Speaker 4: you know, being stiff, sturdy, being able to take a
15:58
Speaker 4: punch and draining your opponent.
16:00
Speaker 3: That's fantastic strategy. So we'll see what happens.
16:04
Speaker 4: Speaking of the details of that fight, there's I read
16:08
Speaker 4: in an article that supposedly there's no rehydration clause. There's
16:12
Speaker 4: not gonna be a rehidation clause for for Canelo versus
16:15
Speaker 4: mud Crawford.
16:16
Speaker 5: Are you familiar with a rehidition clause and what that means?
16:20
Speaker 5: Can you teach me them? We've seen them in more
16:23
Speaker 5: fights over the last I would say five to ten
16:25
Speaker 5: years than ever before. Usually I don't remember hearing about
16:28
Speaker 5: them before then, I know it's been a thing lately.
16:30
Speaker 5: I remember when Floyd Canelo, I believe there was a
16:33
Speaker 5: high reader hydration clause in that in that fight. Recently,
16:38
Speaker 5: there's been multiple vot if we win. Tank fought Ryan Arcia,
16:44
Speaker 5: there was a reiter So there's been it's somewhat common.
16:49
Speaker 5: Most of the time it's saying, hey, once the way
16:51
Speaker 5: it happens, you can't come in over this amount, that's
16:55
Speaker 5: normally what it is. So whether it's five pounds, three pounds,
16:58
Speaker 5: ten pounds, whatever, now there's clause and you can come
17:01
Speaker 5: in at the weight and then if you come in
17:03
Speaker 5: twenty five pounds ever the next day, that's what it is.
17:06
Speaker 4: Well, then there's if there's no rehidition clause. We know
17:09
Speaker 4: the Canelo cuts weight. He he says, you know, he's
17:11
Speaker 4: I think he said he walks around to like one
17:13
Speaker 4: eighty five or something like that, just normally cuts it
17:16
Speaker 4: to make to make the weight class he wants to
17:18
Speaker 4: fight in. But if there's no clause and he can
17:21
Speaker 4: then you know, go back up, then that's an even
17:23
Speaker 4: bigger guy.
17:25
Speaker 3: That Bud has to fight. And I mean, what's that.
17:28
Speaker 4: It look like, yes, you're bigger, you're slower, but the
17:31
Speaker 4: weight bullying is a thing, you know, it doesn't matter
17:33
Speaker 4: how good you are. Some dude is just bigger and
17:35
Speaker 4: be fier. You know, do you think that that's gonna
17:38
Speaker 4: be make it even harder for for Bud who's already
17:41
Speaker 4: going up two weight classes and what is he fighting
17:44
Speaker 4: a guy that could fit in three weight classes up?
17:48
Speaker 3: You know what I mean after the.
17:48
Speaker 2: Fact, Yeah, I mean it's gonna be fascinating to see, right,
17:54
Speaker 2: because if Crawford uses it to his advantage, then okay,
17:58
Speaker 2: you can meet a faster or more busy fighters out
18:00
Speaker 2: the fight. If he's scored more points throughout the fight,
18:03
Speaker 2: it worked towards the advantage because their one disadvantage of
18:08
Speaker 2: not not having clause is yeah, you are okay, that's cool.
18:14
Speaker 2: But with that being said, if you're slower, if that
18:17
Speaker 2: wears you down. The other thing that no one ever
18:20
Speaker 2: talks about as well. So it's very fascinating how these
18:23
Speaker 2: things could work. But at the end of the day,
18:26
Speaker 2: these boxes know their bodies, they know what's gonna be
18:28
Speaker 2: work that works best for them, So I'm gonna trust
18:30
Speaker 2: what they do in this regard.
18:33
Speaker 4: Well, sure, agreed, yes, but speaking specifically about Canelo, you
18:37
Speaker 4: know he knows that what weight he's best at. But again,
18:41
Speaker 4: he's already the bigger guy. The question is what the
18:44
Speaker 4: hell is Bud gonna do because he's already putting on
18:47
Speaker 4: weight and we've talked before about is that gonna make
18:50
Speaker 4: him slower? Is he gonna be as fast on his
18:52
Speaker 4: feet as he would before? Uh, you know, he's a
18:55
Speaker 4: very strong guy. People don't never underestimate butts power, never
18:59
Speaker 4: undrestimate Bud period. But it's still it's just kind of
19:05
Speaker 4: like I will have a discussion about weight classes here
19:08
Speaker 4: in a second. But if but already has to move
19:12
Speaker 4: up and up and up, and Canelo just has to
19:13
Speaker 4: do what he naturally does, I don't see how.
19:17
Speaker 3: I don't see advantage.
19:18
Speaker 4: But in any way in these in these things again,
19:21
Speaker 4: if sure, Canela could be slower, but he's already done it.
19:24
Speaker 4: He already knows his speed and his you know, punching power,
19:27
Speaker 4: et cetera, at that different at that weight range, you know,
19:30
Speaker 4: whatever it is, what's seventy six point eight, et cetera.
19:33
Speaker 3: So what advantage what chance does Bud have here?
19:38
Speaker 2: The advantage is he has He's he knows who kind
19:41
Speaker 2: of fight he wants to fight. So if he comes
19:43
Speaker 2: in at the way he wants to, he's able to
19:45
Speaker 2: move around and do X you plan. He has Now,
19:48
Speaker 2: with that being said, find any guys twenty pounds are
19:51
Speaker 2: heavier more than you. It's a tough challenge. However, if
19:54
Speaker 2: you have the right game plan and if you trust
19:56
Speaker 2: your abilities, I don't think I don't think it's necessarily
19:59
Speaker 2: a bad thing because they're assume that Canal is gonna
20:01
Speaker 2: come in at one eighty five one ninety and try
20:04
Speaker 2: to use his weight in his bolt as an advantage.
20:07
Speaker 2: So any good corner, any good camp would prepare their
20:10
Speaker 2: fighter by hey, this is what he's gonna try to do.
20:13
Speaker 2: We're gonna counter this and do this. We're gonna try
20:15
Speaker 2: to be more active. We're gonna try to do this,
20:17
Speaker 2: this and that. And also, Canelo at thirty five is
20:19
Speaker 2: a different fighter. He'll be thirty five at the time
20:22
Speaker 2: of this fight. Canela at thirty five was a different
20:25
Speaker 2: fighter than he was four or five years ago, just
20:27
Speaker 2: a different overall fighter. Normally, fighters as they get older,
20:30
Speaker 2: they're not as active, and when that's the case and
20:33
Speaker 2: you're fighting an a lead opponent, not being as active
20:36
Speaker 2: can be a detriment to your plan that night.
20:40
Speaker 4: Absolutely, do you know, you know a range of like
20:44
Speaker 4: how how much a fighter loses or how much weight
20:47
Speaker 4: a fighter cuts before a match, Like, could a guy
20:50
Speaker 4: cut you know, there have been guys that cut fifteen
20:52
Speaker 4: twenty I really hope. I really wish we would ask
20:54
Speaker 4: treating Ochoa when he was here, Uh, like how much
20:57
Speaker 4: weight somebody can actually cut before they just to know,
21:00
Speaker 4: pass out, die, you have a stroke, whatever.
21:02
Speaker 2: So it everyone's different, right, So some boxers walk around
21:06
Speaker 2: at their weight that they need to. Some guys are
21:08
Speaker 2: right around, So if you're one forty seven, you walk
21:11
Speaker 2: around between one fifty seven and you just you're just
21:14
Speaker 2: always in that range. So when it's fight time, you
21:17
Speaker 2: do what you do. There are some guys that walk
21:19
Speaker 2: around at one sixty five and they got to cut
21:21
Speaker 2: down twenty pounds in training camp. You know, it just
21:24
Speaker 2: depends on the boxer. Everyone's different for the most part. Though,
21:28
Speaker 2: if I had to guess from what I've heard and
21:30
Speaker 2: everything like that, I would say about twenty pounds, between
21:34
Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty pounds on average, which is not bad
21:36
Speaker 2: when it's not that difficult. When you're doing what they
21:39
Speaker 2: do in training camp, you're eating differently, you're training two
21:42
Speaker 2: a days, you're you know, you're well conditioned, all that stuff,
21:46
Speaker 2: so it's not that difficult to drop that because you're
21:50
Speaker 2: constantly moving, you're constantly doing cardio, so that's pretty easy. Overall,
21:56
Speaker 2: three month timespan, that's not bad at all. But when
21:58
Speaker 2: you get like the Adrian types that you gotta cut
22:01
Speaker 2: like forty pounds six weeks, that ain't. Man, ain't gonna work. Man,
22:05
Speaker 2: That ain't that?
22:05
Speaker 3: Ain't that sounds horrible?
22:09
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I read this just It was like
22:12
Speaker 4: a comment in another article, so don't take this as gospel.
22:15
Speaker 4: But it did say that christianbek junior, British fighter, had
22:19
Speaker 4: a rehidition clause that said that he couldn't hydrate after
22:22
Speaker 4: making weight, he couldn't add on more than five pounds,
22:25
Speaker 4: you know, and rehidiation, and supposedly his father, Christy Ebank
22:29
Speaker 4: Senior said, uh, you know, that's that's terrible. You know,
22:31
Speaker 4: the limiting his ability to hydrate properly could affect his
22:35
Speaker 4: health and blah blah blah, which to me, I'm sorry, man,
22:38
Speaker 4: that's not you chose to fight it that weight. But
22:41
Speaker 4: boxing is a dangerous port. We already said you're putting
22:44
Speaker 4: your life on the line. I want fighters to be
22:46
Speaker 4: as safe as possible. But if you're having if your
22:49
Speaker 4: health is going to be affected by cutting that much weight.
22:52
Speaker 3: Don't do that shit. I'm sorry. Just fight it on
22:54
Speaker 3: a higher weight. Find it where you are normally.
22:57
Speaker 2: Lady pins, right, So if you're taking fire last minute,
23:01
Speaker 2: it is what it is. You got to reach to
23:02
Speaker 2: whatever it is. However, if you have any bargaining chips,
23:05
Speaker 2: if you have any way to get your point across
23:09
Speaker 2: and have a say in the matter, do what's best
23:11
Speaker 2: for you. So if a five pound limit's not good,
23:15
Speaker 2: you need to speak up during the contract, not during
23:18
Speaker 2: the fight, like that's not gonna work. True. I don't
23:20
Speaker 2: have any sympathy for that. Yeah.
23:24
Speaker 3: Good. So that's a question that we can ask in
23:25
Speaker 3: a professional fighters.
23:26
Speaker 4: But I want to see your take is in general,
23:29
Speaker 4: why would a fighter cut so much weight to hit
23:32
Speaker 4: a different weight class? I mean there's like I don't remember,
23:34
Speaker 4: like a dozen more weight classes, like you can slot
23:37
Speaker 4: into so many places. Why why why are fighters cutting
23:40
Speaker 4: twenty pounds anyway in the first place?
23:42
Speaker 2: You know?
23:42
Speaker 5: Do you mean?
23:43
Speaker 2: I mean that's up to the fire in their camp, right,
23:45
Speaker 2: Because the end of the day, as an athlete, your best,
23:48
Speaker 2: your your only job is to stay in shape. That's
23:52
Speaker 2: your main job. I should say is to stay in shape.
23:54
Speaker 2: You shouldn't be so far gone to where it's going
23:57
Speaker 2: to take a lot of work to get back to weight.
23:59
Speaker 2: That should never happen. You should know your body, you
24:01
Speaker 2: should know what your training camps usually like, and you
24:04
Speaker 2: should be able to project and forecast what's going to
24:08
Speaker 2: actually take place. And again, everybody's body is differently late.
24:11
Speaker 2: So like, for instance, if I was in a boxer's camp,
24:15
Speaker 2: I would have a nutritionus. I would see, we would
24:17
Speaker 2: take your blood, we would see what foods work for you,
24:20
Speaker 2: what foods don't, and what foods don't work for you.
24:23
Speaker 2: We would mess with we would leave alone because we
24:25
Speaker 2: want to make sure you're in the best possible situation.
24:28
Speaker 2: So when it's fight time, it's not oh, we got
24:30
Speaker 2: to lose fifteen pounds in two weeks or else nah,
24:33
Speaker 2: because you and I you have a drain fighter. You've
24:36
Speaker 2: seen face offs on Friday afternoon when one guy looks very,
24:41
Speaker 2: very drained to the point where it looks like he
24:43
Speaker 2: took everything out of him and they try to give
24:47
Speaker 2: him to the where you need to get to. It's
24:49
Speaker 2: not good, man, It's just you're putting your body through
24:52
Speaker 2: a lot and it's very difficult to succeed that way.
24:55
Speaker 2: But to be honest with you, a lot of people
24:58
Speaker 2: just are not responsible there now responsible and they're mature.
25:01
Speaker 2: And we've seen it happen a lot time. We've seen
25:03
Speaker 2: guys miss wait and just take the fine. And I'm
25:06
Speaker 2: not a big fan of that at all.
25:08
Speaker 4: Well, and I appreciate that response, but I think I
25:12
Speaker 4: might be splitting hairs. But we're talking about different I'm
25:14
Speaker 4: talking about a different thing because we're talking about being
25:16
Speaker 4: in shape and then cutting weight after that. So for example,
25:19
Speaker 4: so I was I turned into a real fat piece
25:22
Speaker 4: of shit in twenty twenty during the RONA like and
25:25
Speaker 4: then I got into I got into boxing, training, sparring,
25:27
Speaker 4: this and that, and in a year, just from working
25:30
Speaker 4: out in eating healthy, I lost forty pounds. Like I
25:32
Speaker 4: was in good shape. Let's not worry about you know
25:35
Speaker 4: where I'm at now, this is under your business.
25:37
Speaker 3: This is your business.
25:37
Speaker 2: Nobody you know, And I don't.
25:38
Speaker 3: Have to answer that.
25:39
Speaker 4: I'm not answering questions about my lawyer at president. But
25:43
Speaker 4: I lost forty thousand a year just working out, in
25:46
Speaker 4: eating healthy, not starving myself, you know, just not even
25:49
Speaker 4: like and honestly, I didn't. I didn't stop drinking, I
25:52
Speaker 4: didn't stop eating fried food. I just you know, head
25:54
Speaker 4: cheet days. I definitely drank way less than than I
25:58
Speaker 4: did before, and honestly, let's do now. So all of
26:01
Speaker 4: that just the healthy lifestyle. You know, boot forty pounds.
26:04
Speaker 4: But let's say I wanted to fight a guy that
26:07
Speaker 4: was twenty pounds later. I'm in shape, but then I
26:10
Speaker 4: go twenty pounds under that already, That's like that feels
26:13
Speaker 4: just artificial and dangerous to me, because I feel that
26:16
Speaker 4: if I then lost twenty pounds after being in shape,
26:19
Speaker 4: I don't know, I'd feel like I would be just lightheaded,
26:23
Speaker 4: fall apart health. Some days I don't have the time
26:26
Speaker 4: to eat lunch, and by the end of the day
26:28
Speaker 4: I'm lightheaded. So I'm just kind of curious as to
26:31
Speaker 4: why a fighter would then put into that extra effort
26:34
Speaker 4: to cut so much more when it could potentially be damaging.
26:37
Speaker 3: I mean, just just fight it the best shape you're in.
26:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be the thing, right, You wouldn't.
26:42
Speaker 2: I don't think you would cut weight as a boxer
26:44
Speaker 2: if you didn't need to. I think you'd only cut
26:47
Speaker 2: weights if you have to because every boxer knows they're
26:50
Speaker 2: desired weight and desired you know, conditioning. So if it
26:55
Speaker 2: gets to the point where it becomes unhealthy, then they
26:58
Speaker 2: might have qualified off because it wouldn't make sense. So
27:01
Speaker 2: I think, whatever the fuck, So let's say it's up
27:03
Speaker 2: one forty seven is hypothetically speaking, I think they would
27:07
Speaker 2: if they would get to one forty five, they'd probably
27:10
Speaker 2: stop doing what they're doing and just keep on whatever
27:14
Speaker 2: path they need to get to. They're not gonna go
27:15
Speaker 2: any further down to one forty don't like that. But
27:18
Speaker 2: if they're at one sixty five and they got to
27:21
Speaker 2: lose twenty pounds or eighteen pounds to get to a
27:24
Speaker 2: certain point, I think that's a bit different. But cutting
27:27
Speaker 2: weight is normally for guys that really need to. So
27:32
Speaker 2: I'll put it this way. When you go through training camp,
27:35
Speaker 2: you're going to lose a certain amount of weight just
27:38
Speaker 2: by being a training camp by itself, just by being
27:41
Speaker 2: active the amount of you gotta be active, you're gonna
27:44
Speaker 2: cut weight automatically. So it really depends on body type,
27:47
Speaker 2: It depends on the time and the boxer because everybody's
27:51
Speaker 2: metallism is different. Obvious, the younger guys burn stuff off
27:54
Speaker 2: real fast, so everyone's different. However, you don't want to
27:58
Speaker 2: get in a situation where you got to cut forty
27:59
Speaker 2: five pounds in two much. That's just not that's dangerous.
28:04
Speaker 2: That's something where you've got to be very careful. Now,
28:07
Speaker 2: cutting weight, if you're at one sixty and you can
28:10
Speaker 2: give you at one forty seven, cutting thirteen pounds is
28:13
Speaker 2: not that difficult, Like that's not it ain't.
28:18
Speaker 4: Okay, Well it's difficult for me just being a fat
28:21
Speaker 4: guy on the couch.
28:21
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, with the nutrition is traders, et cetera. No,
28:24
Speaker 3: I get that. I mean, I don't know.
28:26
Speaker 4: Part of me feels like there should be a rehydration
28:30
Speaker 4: clause in every fight, like if you're gonna decide to
28:33
Speaker 4: if you're gonna cut weight and go all the way
28:35
Speaker 4: down to fight this guy, stay in that weight class.
28:38
Speaker 3: You know, it's my personal opinion.
28:39
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know what justification could be made
28:43
Speaker 4: to say, now, let's just let everybody just be whatever
28:46
Speaker 4: weight they want. After the facts, All I'm saying is
28:49
Speaker 4: that you made the choice you want to go to
28:52
Speaker 4: that weight class, stick to that. You know, the five
28:55
Speaker 4: to ten pounds limit that's fine, you know, But just
28:57
Speaker 4: to completely say you can put on as much weight
28:59
Speaker 4: as you and just just eat a shit ton of
29:01
Speaker 4: Popeyes right before the fight and then put on twenty
29:04
Speaker 4: five pounds, I don't think so.
29:06
Speaker 3: I don't think that's I just don't think that's fair,
29:08
Speaker 3: is what I'll say.
29:10
Speaker 2: It's not fair. But also here's the thing too, Like,
29:14
Speaker 2: if you put it on that much before you fight
29:19
Speaker 2: is very risky because that may not give the best performance.
29:24
Speaker 2: You may be sluggish in the rain twelve hours later.
29:27
Speaker 2: I think everyone's different. Now, if you're gonna slam a
29:30
Speaker 2: bunch of water and a bunch of fluid, that's different.
29:33
Speaker 2: But if you're gonna carpload and get your proteins in
29:37
Speaker 2: all that, that might backfire. At least the liquid will
29:40
Speaker 2: go come out of you eventually. If you eat a
29:42
Speaker 2: bunch of food, that might not come out within a
29:44
Speaker 2: day or so. So it's very fascinating. I said, we
29:46
Speaker 2: would definitely need a boxer for that. Get more in
29:49
Speaker 2: detail about that, because again, every boxer is different. Now,
29:52
Speaker 2: for the most part, I would say eighty percent of
29:57
Speaker 2: boxers are able to cut weight relatively easy and be
30:02
Speaker 2: in be in the particular weight that they need to
30:05
Speaker 2: be in come fight time. I would say that, now,
30:08
Speaker 2: there are some that just have some difficulties for whatever
30:11
Speaker 2: might be. Uh sometimes the situation where they might be.
30:16
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some guys that need to make weight, Zoe.
30:20
Speaker 2: And sometimes you're going up a weight clouds, so you
30:21
Speaker 2: may have to make weight. So that's a whole different category.
30:24
Speaker 2: So it's just I think it really depends. Is definitely
30:27
Speaker 2: a fascinating thing. But with the rehid race to cause
30:31
Speaker 2: I'm not a huge fan of them in general, but
30:35
Speaker 2: I do understand them. I get it. But at the
30:39
Speaker 2: end of the day, the best fight usually wins with
30:41
Speaker 2: all the stuff that's out there, if the fighter is
30:44
Speaker 2: prepared and the fighters out good, the best fire usually wins.
30:48
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and if you do cut too much or
30:50
Speaker 4: then you gain too much, and then you you know,
30:53
Speaker 4: you either lose a fighter you just barely eke out
30:55
Speaker 4: a win, or they're probably not gonna do that again,
30:57
Speaker 4: you know, say, well, let's stick to the weight over under.
31:01
Speaker 3: That you know that led me to this l or
31:03
Speaker 3: to this disappointed performance. So I get that.
31:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I'd love to talk more to to
31:08
Speaker 4: professional boxers without and we'll make sure to get some
31:10
Speaker 4: on the show and toss those questions at them. For
31:14
Speaker 4: me personally, you know, everybody says, oh, muscle weighs.
31:17
Speaker 2: More than that.
31:18
Speaker 4: You know, if you work out and you get jacked,
31:20
Speaker 4: of course you're gonna gain weight. But again, if you
31:22
Speaker 4: when you go from a big fat piece of shit
31:24
Speaker 4: like I was, to be really active, it was like
31:27
Speaker 4: just drastic weight loss first, and then even with lifting too.
31:32
Speaker 4: It's it's like it was so unbalanced that I never
31:35
Speaker 4: actually really knew. I never never knew what it's like
31:39
Speaker 4: to put on like, I don't know, three to five
31:41
Speaker 4: pounds of muscle. I just losses just in a way,
31:44
Speaker 4: then built some muscle up, but it never went the
31:47
Speaker 4: other way. You know, nobody puts on ten pounds of
31:49
Speaker 4: muscle accidentally, just you know, liftingly in the gym.
31:52
Speaker 3: So but very interesting. I don't know.
31:55
Speaker 4: We'll see what what this means for for Canelo Crawford.
32:00
Speaker 4: And even though I was talking a little bit of
32:03
Speaker 4: shit earlier about you know, Saudi money and the way
32:05
Speaker 4: that they they're doing things right now, I still cannot
32:10
Speaker 4: wait for this fight. It is still so it feels
32:12
Speaker 4: like forever from now till September.
32:14
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, I just I'm dying to
32:17
Speaker 3: see what.
32:17
Speaker 2: It looks like.
32:19
Speaker 4: Well, let's move on to our next segment or recurring
32:22
Speaker 4: segment called Pop Pugilism. Every episode we discuss a movie,
32:28
Speaker 4: TV show, or documentary about boxing, and today we're going
32:32
Speaker 4: to be discussing a documentary called When We Were Kings
32:36
Speaker 4: from nineteen ninety six directed by Leon Gast and this
32:41
Speaker 4: film is the story of the Rumble in the Jungle,
32:44
Speaker 4: the historic fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman in
32:47
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy four and the country then known as Saire.
32:52
Speaker 4: This movie was two decades in the making, and we've
32:56
Speaker 4: seen this fight twice before Jamison, you know, in the
32:58
Speaker 4: Ali movie and then the big George Forman movie. So
33:01
Speaker 4: it was a very very important fight for both of
33:04
Speaker 4: these guys in bostht of their lives, and we got
33:07
Speaker 4: to see it, you know, fictionalized in both movies, and
33:10
Speaker 4: we got to see a documentary about it.
33:12
Speaker 3: So just want to get your thoughts first, what did
33:14
Speaker 3: you think about this.
33:15
Speaker 4: Movie and what did you think about what it was
33:17
Speaker 4: trying to do in terms of showing you some background
33:20
Speaker 4: on this fight.
33:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, first of all, it was a great film.
33:24
Speaker 2: The documentary, like just in general, it's been around for
33:27
Speaker 2: a while. It's one of the well done right. It
33:30
Speaker 2: was a well crafted documentary, kind of gives you a
33:34
Speaker 2: breakdown of before the fight. It's in Africa, which is
33:38
Speaker 2: ironic because the year before we had thro lit Manila,
33:43
Speaker 2: which is another hot human place in the Philippines. So
33:46
Speaker 2: it was interesting. Back in those days we had fights
33:48
Speaker 2: in other places like that, major fights in other places,
33:52
Speaker 2: and now everything is domestically here for most part. But
33:55
Speaker 2: it was just fascinating over the background of it. Obviously
33:59
Speaker 2: the two fires when they were in their careers at
34:00
Speaker 2: that time. Obviously the whole continent was mine Ali, so
34:05
Speaker 2: that was fascinating as well. But George, I mean George
34:08
Speaker 2: was in control of that fight most of the fight.
34:10
Speaker 2: It just kind of punched himself out and I think
34:13
Speaker 2: the amidity of the weather as well and just the
34:15
Speaker 2: overall situation kind of overwhelmed them. But nine times out
34:19
Speaker 2: of ten, Big George would have won that fight. Like
34:23
Speaker 2: you know, we have a totally different conversation. But no,
34:25
Speaker 2: it's uh, it was very fascinating, you know, and also
34:28
Speaker 2: the Africa, it's it gets forgotten about we have the bad,
34:32
Speaker 2: negative stereotypes about Africa. We never talked about the good
34:35
Speaker 2: things about Africa, which is unfortunate. But it was good
34:38
Speaker 2: to see them get their proper due in a sports
34:43
Speaker 2: film without it being like, oh, we're talking about athletes
34:46
Speaker 2: that are you know, this is that, or we're talking
34:49
Speaker 2: about something else. They were actually able to provide a
34:52
Speaker 2: premium event and pats fifty years ago. That's yeah, that's
34:55
Speaker 2: pretty amazing.
34:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I definitely appre shed.
35:00
Speaker 4: You know how fights were in different parts of the globe,
35:04
Speaker 4: you know, now you said they're domestically or they're in
35:06
Speaker 4: riodd or they're in London. You know, there's British fighters.
35:09
Speaker 4: Happened to me is that all the fights I see
35:11
Speaker 4: are in US.
35:12
Speaker 3: Rion or London.
35:13
Speaker 4: And the thing I love about boxing is that one
35:17
Speaker 4: of the many things I love about it is that
35:18
Speaker 4: it's such a global sport. You know, every country in
35:20
Speaker 4: the world has a boxer. It's it's poor poor people.
35:24
Speaker 4: Poor countries can have boxers because you just got to
35:26
Speaker 4: learn to throw hands. You don't need to buy like,
35:28
Speaker 4: you know, hockey equipment and pads, you know, and a stick.
35:30
Speaker 4: They're like, you know, all that stuff, you know, helmets
35:33
Speaker 4: and any of that shit.
35:34
Speaker 3: Sure you need gloves and wraps, but the first thing
35:36
Speaker 3: you learn is technique.
35:37
Speaker 4: So I'm just kind of disappointed now that this movie
35:41
Speaker 4: really put into perspective just how less global boxing seems today.
35:47
Speaker 4: You know, we still have fighters coming all over the
35:49
Speaker 4: world to fight here in the US fighting Madison Square Garden.
35:52
Speaker 3: But what about these.
35:53
Speaker 4: Other countries that you know have their all These places
35:56
Speaker 4: have football stadiums, soccer stadiums, football soccer stadiums.
36:01
Speaker 3: You know, why can't we.
36:02
Speaker 4: Go back to making amazing matchups in places that are
36:06
Speaker 4: in US aria.
36:07
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you. So,
36:11
Speaker 2: every city has a tourism board. So whenever you bring
36:14
Speaker 2: an event to a tourism place of tourism, you get
36:18
Speaker 2: a you get a check, you get some funds. Two
36:23
Speaker 2: Because you're bringing people in, people are flying in, people
36:25
Speaker 2: are spending money, they're anny hotels, the or any cars. Uh,
36:29
Speaker 2: they're eating, they're buying stuff, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
36:32
Speaker 2: So the department of tourism or the tourism board gives
36:36
Speaker 2: the promoters a lot of money to host these events.
36:39
Speaker 2: So it's the reason why the fights are in certain places.
36:42
Speaker 2: It's not accident that the fights happened in Vegas, New York, La, Texas, wherever.
36:47
Speaker 2: You You know, the Mega fights only happened in New
36:50
Speaker 2: York Vegas, and you could throw in La in there.
36:52
Speaker 2: But for the most part, it's Vegas or New York.
36:56
Speaker 2: It's for the most part, especially out here, the of
37:00
Speaker 2: tourism gives whoever's thrown to the event a lot of
37:03
Speaker 2: money and perks to do so. So whenever a fight
37:07
Speaker 2: winds up in a weird place, that means that city, state,
37:10
Speaker 2: or tourism board has given them promoters something that they
37:13
Speaker 2: normally wouldn't have done, or they've outbidden other places. That's
37:17
Speaker 2: normally how it goes. Way back, when there's a fight
37:20
Speaker 2: between Tim Bradley and Devon Alexander at the Silver Dome
37:24
Speaker 2: in Detroit, and at the time, I was wondering, why
37:26
Speaker 2: the hell is at the Silver Dome, which has been
37:29
Speaker 2: making for years. It made no sense. Neither guys from Detroit. No,
37:34
Speaker 2: it didn't make any sense at all. But I'm thinking
37:36
Speaker 2: these are the kind of fights that somebody in the
37:39
Speaker 2: state of Michigan gave an extra bag to somebody is
37:42
Speaker 2: to put the event on, and those are things that
37:45
Speaker 2: take place. So the reason why we don't give fights
37:47
Speaker 2: in other countries like that anymore is because they're not
37:51
Speaker 2: spending out. They're not outspending the people here and also
37:55
Speaker 2: the other perks as off involved in the back end
37:58
Speaker 2: that we will never know about.
38:01
Speaker 4: That's fair, and part of me thinks that, like, if
38:04
Speaker 4: you build it, they will come, and also it'll get
38:06
Speaker 4: more attention, you know that Just goddamn, it's been you know,
38:10
Speaker 4: exact fifty years. We still remember the title thriller in Manila.
38:14
Speaker 4: We still remember Rumble in the Jungle. I think if
38:17
Speaker 4: we went back to it and gave some other places
38:20
Speaker 4: a chance to set this up, you know, with a
38:22
Speaker 4: well promoted event, flashy name, you know, bike, a big deal,
38:26
Speaker 4: people will show up, not just like fans in the
38:29
Speaker 4: venue there, but like people will watch. I think it's
38:32
Speaker 4: I think it's a mistake to just be so centralized.
38:36
Speaker 3: Even in US cities.
38:37
Speaker 4: You know, people have state of use that people have
38:40
Speaker 4: football stadiums in different cities. Why not put a damn
38:43
Speaker 4: you know, important boxing match in Wisconsin or wherever the
38:46
Speaker 4: hell because people.
38:47
Speaker 3: Will show up.
38:49
Speaker 2: You gotta have people to go. And you remember, most
38:51
Speaker 2: of the places we have fights at it's easy to
38:53
Speaker 2: get to. So you can't put a fight at Wisconsin
38:55
Speaker 2: because it's not easy to get to Wisconsin.
38:58
Speaker 3: That's fair, that's our fine. Okay, you know there should
39:01
Speaker 3: be there should be a major fight time in Chicago.
39:03
Speaker 4: You know, I'm just yeah, I'm just saying someplace that's
39:06
Speaker 4: not the typical till place you had mentioned earlier than
39:09
Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of places to put canal
39:11
Speaker 4: overis with sorry Canelo Crawford with football stadiums and you said,
39:15
Speaker 4: you know, oh, Dallas, maybe Arizona.
39:17
Speaker 3: We're not getting it in Phoenix.
39:18
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, no, that was my mess up and
39:23
Speaker 2: much I'll here's the thing, people, they would sell out
39:26
Speaker 2: the Cardinal Stadium. That wouldn't be an get the full
39:29
Speaker 2: seventy thousand or whatever. Old so, but it's just not
39:32
Speaker 2: the kind of draw and you're looking at probably La
39:36
Speaker 2: or Texas if it doesn't happen here. But I think
39:39
Speaker 2: they'll figure out a way to happen in Vegas. It's
39:41
Speaker 2: just too much money involved, too many people that want
39:44
Speaker 2: to come here. And yeah, it's I think it gets done. Sure.
39:49
Speaker 4: Well back to the back to the movie. You know, uh,
39:53
Speaker 4: it's not actually a lot of boxing in it. So
39:56
Speaker 4: if you're somebody that's like not a sports fan, not
39:59
Speaker 4: a boxing fan, most of it it's probably what spends
40:02
Speaker 4: I don't know, ten minutes on the actual.
40:04
Speaker 2: Fight, yeah, if that, if that.
40:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, everything else is you know, the setup getting there
40:09
Speaker 4: and the really interesting things I took about it took
40:12
Speaker 4: out of it was Ali being shown as a as
40:15
Speaker 4: a politically minded person.
40:18
Speaker 3: You know, we we remember the catchphrases.
40:20
Speaker 4: You know, felt like a butterfly, sting like a be
40:22
Speaker 4: you know, we remember the rhymes, the poems.
40:24
Speaker 2: You know.
40:24
Speaker 3: Of course he's very clever, but it was very fast
40:26
Speaker 3: and very funny and charming.
40:28
Speaker 4: But you know, let's not forget that man defighted the
40:33
Speaker 4: US government because he did not want to fight in
40:35
Speaker 4: Vietnam because he said the viet Cong never did anything
40:38
Speaker 4: to me, they never called me.
40:39
Speaker 3: The N word, I will not fight them. And that
40:41
Speaker 3: was a huge deal.
40:42
Speaker 4: And the movie made a good point, made a point
40:45
Speaker 4: to say he was hated in the US, but people
40:47
Speaker 4: in Africa loved.
40:48
Speaker 2: Him for it, right, right, And that's the thing, especially
40:52
Speaker 2: back then with everything going on. Yeah, they was gonna
40:56
Speaker 2: have his back, especially with the religion stuff and the
40:58
Speaker 2: political stuff. He was always don't have. He was gonna
41:01
Speaker 2: be the household favorite there. However, the one thing I
41:04
Speaker 2: wish they would have went deeper into is I wish
41:07
Speaker 2: it would have been more evenly with the coverage, because
41:10
Speaker 2: George was a big deal himself, and it felt like,
41:13
Speaker 2: even though they did a really good job, they could
41:16
Speaker 2: have gave George more spotlight. It felt like we focus
41:20
Speaker 2: on George the fighter, not George the person, and I
41:23
Speaker 2: think they focus on Ali the person and the fighter
41:26
Speaker 2: on the other side. Just that's just me personally.
41:30
Speaker 3: No, I agree. I agree.
41:31
Speaker 4: They definitely made George for like he was an afters.
41:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this was the last show. And also this
41:40
Speaker 3: guy's here, I guess whatever.
41:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that guy should have won the fight. I mean,
41:44
Speaker 2: go back and watch it. Look at it. I mean
41:47
Speaker 2: he was in control, he was he just gassed out.
41:50
Speaker 2: But yeah, like that guy was damn good in his
41:53
Speaker 2: own right. So this is kind of weird how that
41:56
Speaker 2: pro program went, but that's how it goes. We get
41:59
Speaker 2: out it is product, I understand.
42:02
Speaker 4: And also very interesting is that there were some of
42:05
Speaker 4: the talking heads in the movie said, everybody thought, you know,
42:10
Speaker 4: on like the press and the American press thought Ali
42:12
Speaker 4: was gonna lose, like Africa. The people in Africa were
42:15
Speaker 4: on inside one hundred percent, but like people around Ali,
42:19
Speaker 4: they're like, oh man, this guy's going down. So that
42:22
Speaker 4: was very interesting to see because of course Ali is
42:24
Speaker 4: very confident, you know, he's talking to shit. And then
42:27
Speaker 4: one of the I forget, which I might have been
42:28
Speaker 4: Norman Mayler, who said, like, honestly, we thought he was worried.
42:31
Speaker 4: We thought Ali was actually scared beneath the bluster and everything.
42:36
Speaker 4: So I was really I really appreciated that. It really
42:39
Speaker 4: gave a different perspective. Another thing I really liked. Spike
42:43
Speaker 4: Lee actually said at the time there was a division
42:46
Speaker 4: between you know, black people in America and Africans, where
42:49
Speaker 4: if you called a black guy African, there there would.
42:52
Speaker 2: Be a fight. You know.
42:53
Speaker 4: That was surprising to me, and it reminded me of
42:55
Speaker 4: the difference with Mexican culture, Mexican American culture. Oscar Deloya
43:01
Speaker 4: was made fun of by a lot of people, including
43:03
Speaker 4: my own mother, for being not Mexican enough. You know,
43:06
Speaker 4: he didn't speak Spanish, you know, he played golf, He
43:09
Speaker 4: was kind of a like. I guess the term that
43:11
Speaker 4: I would use to to sanitize what my mother says
43:14
Speaker 4: he was a pansy. He wasn't a real Mexican. You
43:16
Speaker 4: know that there's a difference of like you. It would
43:21
Speaker 4: be he would be better thought of if he was
43:23
Speaker 4: more Mexican than not. You know what I'm saying it right,
43:27
Speaker 4: which is which is fascinating. So and you know, I
43:29
Speaker 4: love I love my mother to death, and she's definitely
43:31
Speaker 4: come a long way and over the years and being
43:34
Speaker 4: more more woke. But man, she she will talk bad
43:37
Speaker 4: shit about Oscar Deloya to this day. It weighs in
43:42
Speaker 4: ways and I'm like, Mom, you can't say this twenty
43:44
Speaker 4: twenty five.
43:44
Speaker 3: You can't say that shit. It's Spanish or English, right
43:47
Speaker 3: right right?
43:48
Speaker 2: I love you?
43:50
Speaker 4: But yeah, So Jameson, if people who don't care about
43:53
Speaker 4: bossing and don't care about sports, I think they can
43:56
Speaker 4: get something out of this way. What do you think
43:59
Speaker 4: people will get out of So how would you convince
44:00
Speaker 4: somebody to watch this movie if they say, I don't
44:02
Speaker 4: give a shit about boxing at all.
44:04
Speaker 2: So I think it's better off of you didn't know
44:06
Speaker 2: about boxing, because it's done well, we're boxing fans, so
44:11
Speaker 2: we want more action or whatever. But that was a
44:13
Speaker 2: regular movie watcher or a documentary watcher covering the event.
44:17
Speaker 2: Th way they did was very good. There's a lot
44:19
Speaker 2: of things they covered very well. So from the average person,
44:23
Speaker 2: it's probably best off if you didn't know about boxing.
44:25
Speaker 2: That's how well it was done.
44:27
Speaker 3: Oh, I appreciate that.
44:30
Speaker 4: And I don't know if you know this, but the
44:31
Speaker 4: director actually went to Zaire to make a documentary about
44:36
Speaker 4: the music festival that was happening alongside the fight. The
44:40
Speaker 4: president of Mabutu then made so proceeds from the music festival,
44:44
Speaker 4: we're supposed to find the documentary, but Macha said, you
44:47
Speaker 4: know what, this this music fest is now free. So
44:50
Speaker 4: the director was kind of like, oh shit, what am
44:52
Speaker 4: I going to do here? You know, I can't make
44:54
Speaker 4: a movie without funding. Then when George Foreman got injured
44:57
Speaker 4: and the fight got delayed and people stuck aroun out
45:00
Speaker 4: It's air, then it kind of switched the the focus
45:04
Speaker 4: of the film to the boxers and the set up
45:06
Speaker 4: to the fight. But there's still a lot of really
45:09
Speaker 4: cool footage of musical performances in the movie Pepper throughout
45:13
Speaker 4: because there they so it's very dynamic, so there's not
45:17
Speaker 4: that much you know, talking heads.
45:18
Speaker 3: There's a there's a few interviewees.
45:20
Speaker 4: There's a lot of footage of you know, Ali preparing
45:23
Speaker 4: for the fight. There's training footage. There's a lot of
45:25
Speaker 4: music in it. Kind of reminded me of Sinners actually,
45:28
Speaker 4: because they took musical breaks here and there, just simly
45:31
Speaker 4: enough shout out to Sinners.
45:33
Speaker 3: Amazing movie. Go see that if you haven't already.
45:35
Speaker 4: But yeah, and there's just a little bit of everything,
45:38
Speaker 4: and it's like a dynamic and it's it's a strong
45:41
Speaker 4: recommend Oh and I can't neglect that near the end,
45:45
Speaker 4: probably less than ten minutes left to go, there was
45:48
Speaker 4: a montage with footage and pictures. And this is how
45:52
Speaker 4: I know I'm washed because it was said to a banger.
45:56
Speaker 4: Nineties R and B song by Brian mcnight and Diana
45:59
Speaker 4: came banger, and it made me nostalgic for that like
46:03
Speaker 4: specific style of nineties R and B. Uh, to the
46:08
Speaker 4: point that I went back and put on that, uh,
46:10
Speaker 4: that big Brian McKnight's song today that you don't where
46:13
Speaker 4: he's like, what you let a.
46:15
Speaker 3: Dream come true?
46:16
Speaker 4: You remember that from when we were kids, put that
46:19
Speaker 4: on today, I was like, fuck, that was, Like I said,
46:22
Speaker 4: I became nostalgic because now I've watched as Hell. So
46:26
Speaker 4: definitely shout out to the movie for ending on a
46:28
Speaker 4: on a banger song. Uh so here, you know, we
46:32
Speaker 4: rate movies out of four gloves. It's always kind of
46:36
Speaker 4: difficult for me to rate documentaries.
46:38
Speaker 3: But this one, this one, this one is.
46:41
Speaker 4: Very stylish, you know it. It is specifically made to
46:44
Speaker 4: be cinematic. So yeah, you know, what are your thoughts?
46:47
Speaker 4: Out of four gloves, what would you give this movie?
46:48
Speaker 2: It's a three point five. It does the job very
46:51
Speaker 2: well for showcase from the event, Like it puts the
46:55
Speaker 2: event and it gets you prepare for the event. It
46:58
Speaker 2: gives you a great breakdown of the event if you're
47:00
Speaker 2: a person that had no knowledge of boxing, no knowledge
47:03
Speaker 2: of the gentlemen that we're fighting. It did a very
47:05
Speaker 2: good job of showcasing the actual event. So I think
47:08
Speaker 2: it did its job. I just felt that they can
47:11
Speaker 2: have more boxing in it. Whether it talked about the
47:13
Speaker 2: previous fights that guys had with other opponents, bestally Joe Fraser,
47:17
Speaker 2: who was a common opponent above for theirs. You know,
47:19
Speaker 2: those are things I could have get a little bit
47:22
Speaker 2: more lead on, but in general, for the event itself,
47:24
Speaker 2: it held a job.
47:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the same. I'm a
47:28
Speaker 3: little higher on it. I would go three point seven
47:30
Speaker 3: to five.
47:31
Speaker 4: I just you know, we talked so much about boxing,
47:35
Speaker 4: and I love and I love talking about the fights
47:37
Speaker 4: and this and that the history that this was so
47:40
Speaker 4: much skewed in the other direction that it was refreshing
47:42
Speaker 4: and it.
47:42
Speaker 3: Was really nice to see. You know, there's a reason
47:46
Speaker 3: we still, you know, remember Muhammad.
47:48
Speaker 4: Ali finally today, and you know it's not only because
47:50
Speaker 4: of his personality and just the way he was quick
47:54
Speaker 4: on his feet, both in the ring and also mentally,
47:57
Speaker 4: but also you know, like I said, I really like
48:00
Speaker 4: the political aspect they brought in.
48:02
Speaker 3: You can't deny that that part of him and why
48:05
Speaker 3: he was so so beloved because of that as well.
48:07
Speaker 3: So I really appreciated it.
48:10
Speaker 4: I think that it's definitely worth a watch, and if
48:13
Speaker 4: you were into physical media as I am. This is
48:15
Speaker 4: available on Blu ray and DVD from the Criterion collection
48:19
Speaker 4: Spine number nine ninety eight.
48:21
Speaker 3: I wrote that down, so check it out.
48:23
Speaker 4: It's very short. I think it's like the ninety minutes
48:26
Speaker 4: or something like that, or maybe a little lessan ninety minutes. Yeah,
48:31
Speaker 4: so worth your time, your in and out, You're going
48:34
Speaker 4: to learn something. At the very least, you're going to
48:36
Speaker 4: learn something about Africa that you know maybe not a
48:40
Speaker 4: lot of people, not only people know a lot about that,
48:43
Speaker 4: but that continent. So I took an African politics class
48:47
Speaker 4: in college. That was very interesting, but that was a
48:49
Speaker 4: long time ago and that shit is long gone that
48:51
Speaker 4: I drank all that knowledge away. So it was really
48:55
Speaker 4: nice to just to learn something. So check it out,
48:59
Speaker 4: y'all recommend Let's get here, Let's get out here Jamison.
49:03
Speaker 4: Where can people find you on social media and on
49:06
Speaker 4: Twitter at view Jamison.
49:07
Speaker 2: I'm on there for all the fights. Always good to
49:09
Speaker 2: interact with people's going to watch the fights, all that
49:11
Speaker 2: good stuff.
49:13
Speaker 4: Hell yeah, you can follow me at the Classy Alcoholic
49:16
Speaker 4: on Instagram and Blue Sky. A quick shout out to
49:19
Speaker 4: my buddies who hosts a Star Wars podcast called Han
49:22
Speaker 4: Took Shots First. They were kind enough to invite me
49:25
Speaker 4: on to discuss the second and final season of the
49:27
Speaker 4: show and or It's an excellent show.
49:29
Speaker 3: I had a lot of fun discussing it and joking
49:31
Speaker 3: around with my guys Derek and Jack.
49:33
Speaker 4: So check out Han Took Shots First on YouTube and
49:36
Speaker 4: wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you follow
49:39
Speaker 4: our show on Twitter at mixed co Podcast. Subscribe to
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49:47
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49:48
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49:50
Speaker 4: us out way more than you can possibly know. And
49:53
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49:54
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50:04
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50:12
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50:15
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50:17
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50:18
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. We have been the
50:20
Speaker 3: Mixed Company Podcast salut