Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / AnxietyLand : mee the author Gemma Correll
Transcript
- Pete: Welcome to an exciting episode of Pete for exciting guys. I'm so happy to have this guest here. But before we get into that today, I'd like to introduce everybody to my new partner, Psych Pal. If you guys want to go into my description in the bio, I have a link for you to try it out. Use my promo code, Pete, and check out for 20 % off your final purchase, And with that being said, my guest today is the award winning cartoonist with her upcoming book, Anxiety Land, dropping tomorrow. The one, the only Jemma Corral is here. Jemma, thank you so much for being here. Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. peter: Show ⁓ Gemma: Thanks for having me here. Pete: It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. So Gemma, why don't you tell everybody a little more about yourself and then we'll get into the book itself. Gemma: Okay, so I'm Gemma. I'm from the UK originally, hence the accent. I now live in Southern California. I'm a cartoonist and an illustrator and I guess a writer too somewhat. And ⁓ yeah, I've been working as a cartoonist for maybe 15 years now. Pete: That's awesome though. cartoon, has that always been something you're big on or has always been big thing for you, like cartoons and things like that too? Gemma: Yes, yeah, I've loved comics since I was a kid. My parents had the, you know, Gary Larson, the Farsight ⁓ annuals at home. So ⁓ those were my favourite books to read growing up. And I didn't realise that it was a real job that you could have until I ended up going to art school. then, yeah, finally became a party nurse myself. Pete: Well, that's so cool though. So what was your first big break though when you were doing that? know, for people that don't really know, that's where we're digging in a little bit here. So they know, it's like, what was your first big comic that you did? Was it something you self-published or was it something you've been working on? Gemma: Well, I was very lucky that when I graduated from art college, it kind of coincided with the time when social media was becoming a big thing. And I was on Tumblr and Instagram and Facebook and so forth. And I was publishing my just personal comics. They weren't necessarily things that I was working on for clients, although I was doing that as well. Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: ⁓ And one of the first comics I published was, it's just a drawing of myself and it says, nope, in big letters at the top. I'm just lying down on the ground. It was just a day when I was feeling particularly grumpy and tired. I didn't think much of it. And then that comic kind of exploded and it's still really popular. Now I think a lot of people identify with it. Pete: That's really cool though. mean, so let's get into the nitty gritty now, okay? So mental health, all right? So has this always been a big thing for you? Is this something you've had, did you start experiencing this at an early age or is it something that you kind of figured out as you go? Because everybody has their own stories about how they discovered what they're dealing with these days. So what was yours? Gemma: Yeah, I think ⁓ I was dealing with anxiety in particular since I was pretty young. I remember Ethan being, you know, five years old and being just having this kind of sense of dread that populated around me all of the time, but I didn't understand what it was. And it took me years and years to understand that firstly, it wasn't just me and I wasn't the only person in the world feeling that way. And secondly, that it was actually, you know, a disorder and not Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: part of my, myself. Pete: Yeah, yeah. So when you found out that you had anxiety, what was that moment where you realized, hey, I need help, you know, because it's tough for a lot of people to ask for help at these points. Gemma: Yeah, I mean, I wish that I would have asked for help lot earlier, but the first time that I really knew that I really did need some proper help was when I went to university for the first time. And I talk about this in my book, but I was... I've already been struggling with panic attacks and agoraphobia a little bit, but it really kicked off when I went off away from home for the first time to university. And that's when I realized that I needed help, but it wasn't when I actually got help because I didn't know where to go. Pete: Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's hard these days. People don't know what to do with these kind of things, you know. But, you know, look at you, though. You got a book coming out. You have your memoir coming out. Your successful cartoonist. You're doing a lot of things a lot of kids dreamed of doing as kids. Like we always used to doodle as kids like, OK, well, maybe we'll make them big. You're doing this now. So do you have any inspirational words for anybody out there? Like, you know, for these younger cartoons out there, you want to want to give them a little shout out really quick and like maybe some words of encouragement. Gemma: Bye bye. you Yeah, definitely. I think that I didn't come from kind of a background where I even knew that being a cartoonist could be a real job. It was something that I loved doing. I always loved to draw and I loved to read cartoons and comics. But where I come from is a lot more traditional. And being a cartoonist just seemed like this crazy thing that maybe people did in America. And now I'm in America. But there wasn't any kind of magic thing that I did to make it happen. It was just working at it for a really long time. Like I said, was lucky that I started ⁓ adopting social media and just sharing personal work. I think that that's kind of the most important thing for me is to, even when I'm really busy making work for clients. Pete: Right? Gemma: It's always doing personal work, always drawing in my sketchbook and doing it every single day, no matter how I feel. it's really perseverance that I think is the most important thing. Pete: I love it. love it, Jemma. So let's get into the reason you're here. Let's talk about anxiety land. I got to tell you right now that I think it's the coolest concept in making a book. Like I was looking at this thing and I was going like, this is really cool. And I told your my contact, your contact, Aubrey, I told her about this. I was like, I got to say, I love how you put this thing out. Like I'm a big graphic novel guy. So this thing instantly hit right away with me. Not to mention the fact I already deal with anxiety. The title alone just caught my attention. But the fact and the way you set this thing up, it's like you have a whole map in the beginning of how you draw it out. And then I love the way that you, when you animate with your character, like yourself in the book, how you're animating the feelings you're having, giving people little more perspective on things. Was that your intention in the beginning? Because I love the idea, honestly. Let me tell you, I can't rave enough about this thing to people. Gemma: Thank you. Yeah, was my intention was to depict anxiety from more than one direction. So I wanted to write about it. you know, a lot of people, myself included, very visual and it's very hard to describe anxiety with just using words, especially when you're in the thick of it. It's ⁓ I know for me personally, I find it really hard to just read and even communicate. Pete: Yeah. Gemma: very well and I'm very anxious. So images can say a lot. So I wanted to make images that were quite simple and graphic and particularly with a map. I really like using these kind of almost infographics as a way of explaining things and then also very simple ways of showing emotions and feelings and how they present to me personally. Pete: I think I love it. I love it though. I love it because you're looking at it from the aspect most people don't. They always want to throw a bunch of text at us. And I'm like, you know, I read a couple of books, not really big, but graphic novels have always been close to my heart. You know, like things like the way they just kind of like, I like the pictures and mixtures. know, it's almost like, you know, you have that comic book in your hands, like you're your kid. That's, that's the moment you go back to. But I loved how you set yours up, like a whole theme park theme. I thought that was really cool. I was like, all right, now that's really genius. I'm jealous because now I want my book like this too now. Gemma: Thank you. Pete: You know, but what was that one moment though when you decided you wanted to write a book? Because now you're putting your story out there for people to see. That alone has to be nerve wracking because we know how people perceive mental health these days, you know, and things like that. Were you were you nervous putting this thing out? Because you're sharing your actual feelings of how you're feeling every single day to people now. Gemma: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's, it is a little bit nerve wracking. I think that it helps that I've already been sharing the shorter form comics for quite a long time. So I'm not just going in straight with all this new stuff. You know, people who follow me and my work already know that I suffer from anxiety and I have written these shorter comics about it. But this is this book is so much more in depth. and more personal. There's things in there that people, know, even my own family don't really know about. So yeah, it is a little bit scary putting it out there into the world. But I'm really glad that I did it. Pete: Mm-hmm. It's. Especially if you like you just said, you said a lot of people didn't know what you were thinking. Your close personal family members will start reading this and see exactly what it is you're dealing with. You know, I think it'll be a better learning experience for a lot of people that don't really get it. That those people that don't have mental health issues that deal with these kind of things like we do, know, like anxiety for us presents differently for each one of us. You know, I like how you took your use your strengths and you already being a cartoonist, you turn into you know what you do best and you just killed this thing. I like I said, I couldn't get enough is I've been raving to people. It's like, man, let me tell you all. Y'all gotta check this thing out. I've been telling all my friends about it. I'm like, hey, you guys gotta see this book, man. This is really interesting way that she laid it out, you know? And I think it's really great, because people are visual learners. I think that's a really good point when you make that point, Because a lot of us, that's how we learn. We do better looking and seeing things, versus someone telling me, it's like, I get you. Those are just words. What the hell does that mean? What does it look like? But you did a great job illustrating it, I loved it. think the way that you've laid this thing out is actually groundbreaking because you don't see a lot of people's memoirs that are like that. In fact, I don't think any memoir I've seen so far of people I've interviewed have ever done it in that kind of faction. the way you've done it, I think it's pretty cool, honestly. Gemma: Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to make something that's unique. I've read a lot of books about anxiety and ⁓ like longer form, just straight written works. ⁓ I mean, a lot of them I've really enjoyed, but they haven't quite captured only, obviously only I can speak about my personal experience, but I hope that other people resonate with it as well. Pete: Mhm. Yeah, exactly. So let me ask you this though, early on when you were posting things about your mental health, did you get a real mixed response? Because you know, some people are not really understanding and really not too kind on the internet as we can tell these days, you know, from some of my previous guests, you know, there are some people that get some nasty comments. Were you getting kind of a mixed review when you started putting these things out there? Gemma: ⁓ yeah, definitely. ⁓ I've experienced some pretty nasty comments and I still get them. I just try not to take them too personally now. That's just come from many years of learning. I try to remember that everybody's going through their own journey and yeah, it's not a reflection on me. It's a reflection on you. Pete: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's good though. I'm glad you adopted that mentality because these guys out here say some pretty heinous things. There's a guest I had on before. She had a lot of problems. She has schizoaffective disorder and things like that. Some really extremely kind of stuff that's in that far range of a lot of people don't even understand. If she started explaining it to you, you'd start looking at her like, oh my God, know, kind of thing. like, you know, I just... I don't understand why people have to judge people like that. You're out here putting yourself out there, telling people about your own journey. Were you worried about people finding out about these kind of things? Especially you being a cartoonist, a lot of people only know you by your work, they don't know who you are as a person a lot of times. Gemma: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like my work is very personal and I kind of depict myself as honestly as I can in my work, but there is also a level of humour that I use and I'm not trying to use it to deflect from the personal story. I'm trying to use it as a way of bringing people in because like you say, people don't... necessarily understand anxiety. It's very much and mental health, it's very much like a spectrum. And a lot of people just think that anxiety is just just what being a bit worried. And they may be especially now people misuse terms like panic attacks or OCD, because they don't understand it. and it's it's understandable that people don't quite get it because it's not always talked about. So all I can do is kind of put my story out into the world and hope that it helps people maybe understand a little bit more. Pete: Yeah. Well, you've come to the right place because stories here matter. A lot of people here this show will listen and will say something. ⁓ hey, listen to this episode with so and so. And they mentioned it by name and things like that, too. So I'm expecting that email to be coming in here after this episode drops, obviously, you know, things like that. But, know, you did make a good point, though. It's just like some people just don't get it, though. And it's like it's horrible because. Like you're out there putting yourself out on the internet, especially the scariest place in the world to be these days, because you know, people say nasty things all day, every day to you, you know, and it's just like, it's hard, but it's, it's, it's so powerful that you're out there regardless. You're like, okay, well, I'm gonna do this anyways. And then you turn it into a memoir about yourself, you know, so people can better understand you, which I think it'd be great. Cause a lot of us always want to know what you guys are thinking as cartoonists and you know, people that do all these really cool things out there and you know, We're always wondering what your insights are, kind of things like that, like what it's like to be you. the fact that you went and turned it into a, you're like, you know what, I'm gonna flip the script. I'm gonna do a book. I'm gonna write it my own way. I love it. I think that you're going against the grain, which I think it's really cool, because now I wanna do my book like that too, because I always talk I wanna do a book. Now it's like, damn, now I gotta get up to Gemma's level. I gotta find something to draw this thing for me. Gemma: Yeah. I recommend it. It's hard work, but it's fun. Pete: Oh yeah, definitely. I'm sure the process will be fun, you know, because like I do this show and then I do a side project and I do all these other things. I'm always, I'm a man generator. I don't know if you know human design, but I'm a man generator. do a lot of things. So, you know, it's really, it's really interesting when you get different people that come on here, the different stories you hear from people, you know. So I know when, when, when you're, when Aubrey reached out to me, I was excited. I was like, yeah, you know, this is going be kind of cool. So, you know, do you have any other family members that deal with mental health? Or are you the only one though? I mean, cause sometimes You know, some people, other people have other things that go on in their lives and that's a lot of times, know, a of these other ones come from trauma too, like BPD and things like that, all show up like that too as well. Gemma: Yeah, ⁓ my honest answer is I don't know. ⁓ I'm from the UK and mental health is not something that is talked about a lot there. It's definitely getting better as it is in US too. But ⁓ as a family, it's not something that we really talked about. So I definitely can identify traits of anxiety in certain family members, but I'm... Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gemma: can't diagnose and I'm not a doctor obviously. I think that one thing that definitely kind of informed my anxiety is the bottling up of emotions which again is a pretty common thing in the UK. People don't want to be seen as hysterical or as making a fuss. ⁓ Pete: Hahaha. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Gemma: Growing up, would ⁓ always do my best not to bother people by making a fuss. ⁓ And that included trying to tamp down my anxiety and my emotions so that it wouldn't ⁓ bother anybody else. Pete: Yeah. So what made you want to write the book though? mean, like, is it just like you woke up a moment and you're like, you know what, I'm going to go and put my life out there in the spectrum. Because, know, with anxiety, you had to be freaking out at that point. You're like, oh God, what are people going to think? You know, I can just imagine the thoughts that are going through your head. Because I know mine would have been like going 20 directions. Like you would have had 20 people that are having a 10 way conversation going, oh, well, you know, you had to be kind of wrestling with this idea. Was it one of those things you just woke up and day, you're like, you know what, I'm going to write a book about myself and just put it out there for people and see what happens. Gemma: Yeah, it was in the back of my head for a really long time, for years. And I think that ⁓ I'd always wanted to write ⁓ a longer form graphic novel ⁓ after spending so long doing short form comics. And I wanted to write about something that I knew. And this is kind of the best thing that I knew was myself and my experiences. And I... Pete: Yeah. Right. Gemma: Yeah, I wanted to use the theme park framework as well. That was something that was always in the back of my mind. I just wanted an excuse to go to Disneyland, basically. I was like, this is for research. Pete: I love it. See, I was going to ask you that too. Why the theme park theme though too? We were going to get into that one next because I was curious, why did you choose Anxiety Land as your theme park? Was theme parks really big for you as a kid? I know here in the States you have Six Flags, Bush Gardens, Cedar Point, a bunch of these other places like that. Was it always a big thing for you? Gemma: Mm-hmm. a kid, didn't really have any big theme parks in the UK. There was like kind of a smaller one that I went to a couple of times. ⁓ ⁓ did get to go to Disney World when I was a kid. I have family in the US, so we were visiting them and then we ⁓ down to Disney World and it just blew my mind. ⁓ I kind of became obsessed with theme parks from that point on. And now I live in California, so obviously I... ⁓ Pete: Yeah. ⁓ okay. Gemma: live pretty close to Disneyland. And it's not just about the rides for me. I love the whole aesthetic of the theme park. I love the feeling of kind of going into another world, like just forgetting everyday life, going into another space. And I feel like that's what I wanted to depict is like this whole world of anxiety that people who reading the book may or may not. Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: know about. And also a lot of the rides kind of depict emotions that can be part of anxiety. So for example in the book I have the roller coaster and anxiety can be very much like a roller coaster of emotions, especially you know with panic attacks. Pete: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Gemma: As you want a therapist that I spoke to described a panic attack like that, like it's a slow rise of panic and then there's a peak. And he kind of told me like, there's this peak and once you're there, it's not gonna get any worse. And that's something that I always keep in the back of my mind that there is always a peak. It's not something that's gonna last forever even if it feels like it's going to. Pete: So let me ask you though, what is a panic attack like for Gemma? For me, it's like when I start melting down, it's like, you better just let me go because I might as well get it all out of my system. So what is it like for you? Because I always ask, I'm always curious because for each of us, we get experience in our own ways. and it's great when I get other people that have similar mental health issues I have too, because it's great because you can highlight what it's like for other people. them an experience, like, know what mean? Tell people, like, it's like. Well, everybody's different. Everybody experiences things differently, you know. So for you, what is it like when you go into a panic attack? Gemma: For me, it usually starts with physical symptoms. For me, mine are very situational. I have agoraphobia. If I feel like I'm trapped in a space, for example, an elevator or any situation that I might feel trapped, it starts with a lot of physical feelings. Then ⁓ I attach those feelings to ⁓ Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: to anxiety and then my brain starts going, ⁓ no, my heart's beating fast, that must mean that I'm going to have a panic attack and of course that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and I have a panic attack. And like you said, the way that it happens for you now, ⁓ I try my best to let it happen because I think that is the best way to deal with it. It's not gonna be fun. But ⁓ if you let it happen without trying to push it away, will eventually subside. Whereas up until a few years ago, I was doing everything to try and distract myself, to try and stop it happening. And in the end, that just really makes it worse. So that's why I don't necessarily go for like distraction techniques and stuff, because I know a lot of Pete: Yeah. Gemma: people will do things like have sour gummies to stop the panic, to distract the brain. But I think then that becomes something where if you don't have the sour gummies, then it's like a... Right, yeah, I don't want to say it's a crutch, but it's something that you rely on to stop the panic attack. Whereas I really think that it's important to let it happen. Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're code-coded depending, you? Yeah, no, I agree. think that once you're in that mode, it's like, just let it go. you might as just watch me go, man. You might as well just let me go, because I'm going to say what I'm going to say regardless, you know. And I hate it when people come and go, oh, calm down, or this. And it's like, hey, listen, that's a great advice, but it doesn't work. You know, I know people tend to freak out in those situations, too, you know. The sour gummy thing helps, though, for me when like it's starting to, you know, it starts to act up a little like, you know, if I feel a little. Gemma: Thank you. Pete: start getting a little anxiety or something, I start panicking, I swipe it, okay, it helps, you know, I'll have that. I do like, I talk to myself, like, I'll get the thoughts out of my head. So sometimes you'll see me over there, I'm talking to myself, you'll like, is Pete talking to himself? I literally am, I am talking to myself. I'm getting the thoughts out of my head, or I do this thing I call downloading my brain. Like I have a group, a friend group on Instagram, I'll literally click record, and I'll send them, I'll just send them a complete random message of just blurbing things out. And I'm like, okay, I'm good, I'll see y'all later. Then they'll know exactly what it is when they see like a five minute long like message sitting there like, Gemma: Thank Pete: Okay, Pete's about to do something here. Wild. Here we go. you know, because my next question obviously was going to be is like, what kind of techniques do do to manage your anxiety? Do like anxiety journals or anything like that? Or do you writing? I mean, because you already do drawing now. So I get one of your things that you do, like you just go in that moment. You're like, you know, I'm going to go, I'm going to go relax and get my mind off things. I'm just going to sit down and just see what comes to mind when I start drawing something. Any of those kind of techniques you're using? Gemma: That's awesome. Yeah, drawing and writing are obviously big ones for me and it depends what kind of mode I'm in. If I'm anxious but not fully in panic mode, anything that I can use to harness my thoughts, not trying to distract from them but just write them down, draw them. Pete: Yeah. Gemma: just take myself out of the space that I'm in, whether going for a walk with my dogs or just watching my dogs, even as I really love doing, just because I tend to go into overthinking mode and my thoughts will go round and round in my head and that's where it starts to get bad. If I'm already in the situation of a panic attack, I just focus outwardly. Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: but also feel as much as I can, like let the physical sensations run through my body and just know that they can't hurt me. Pete: Yeah, no, I agree. think so. I think a lot of people in those situations forget to ask you what they can do best for you. think everybody else wants to have, that, what do I like to call it, the hero complex, or they want to save everything, they want to fix everything. But it's like, sometimes you can't, you just got to let it happen, you know, like just be there in space, you know what mean? Like, like you just want to be present to understand that I'm going to melt down here. I need you to understand that this is going to happen and not to panic because there's really nothing else you can do to help me. Just, just let me go, let me feel the feelings I'm going to feel. You know what I'm saying? Gemma: Yes, yeah, it's definitely, I like having somebody there with me, depending on who it is, if it's someone that's close to me, but I don't need them to necessarily do anything. Just having them there and feeling safe with them is enough. And the people who are close to me know that now. I'm really lucky to have some really great people around me. Pete: Mm-hmm. That's good. That's good. That's good to have a great support system of people that you know you can trust and those times need and things like that as well and stuff like that. So if you wanted someone to take one message away from this book, what would you say that one thing is? Gemma: But you're not alone. If this person is struggling with any kind of mental health issue, it can feel so isolating and I hope that they can read it and realise that they're not the only person in the world who feels that way. It can feel like that. And if it's somebody reading who doesn't necessarily struggle themselves but... know somebody who does that there are ways to support that person. Pete: Yeah, no, think what your book's gonna do is it's gonna bring light to lot of things for people, for those people that don't, like they hear what it means, but they don't really get what it means. know, the visualization part of it will really help them out to get an idea of what cycle of motions you're going through at the time, or somebody else they may know is going through these things and start noticing things. So I think it's really great. I love what you're doing with this because I think that it's a step in the right direction, showing more people like, listen, this is what we deal with. Like, just so you know, when I say... I'm dealing my anxieties kind of acting up today. This is what the feelings I could be feeling at this moment. And I know when it comes to BPD and things like that too, BPDs and issues, I'd love to see your perspective on that one in a visual sense, because those guys, man, they deal with a lot of things. And I think it's really cool. think this opens it up to a lot of different things. You could start exploring different anxiety or different mental health issues and just kind of see what they are, ask people, and then you basically put it into. to a visualization. That'd be kind of cool of a series to do though, you know, because I think the way you're doing it is really cool how you, like I said, all these things you're relating to things that people can relate to these days, you know. And I think the visualness is what I think is what's really great because like I said, I'm a visual guy. I can't I got books. I got a whole stack of books back there that create right there's all my books I get. I've read most of them, but some of them is just like I got to take a break on some of them, you know, and like I'm more of a graphic guy. So when you're playing the Mice Tranks, I was like. Yep. All right. That's it. We're on Gemma and I are already on the same page. Yeah, I this already. So. So Mike, my question for you, is for people at home, do you have any advice for anybody at home, though, basically, like, you know, if they have mental health issues or know somebody having issues, you want to you want to give them some advice like, listen, this is what you can do in these situations just from your perspective. Obviously, these are not like the ironclad things, but these are what would Gemma do. What would you like someone to do if they were in your shoes? Gemma: Thank you. I think ⁓ one thing that is said a lot when it comes to mental health is ask for help. That's repeated a lot and I would say that that is very very important but ⁓ it's not so easy to know where to go and who to ask for help. I would, ⁓ I mean it took me going to basically the emergency ⁓ department Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: to figure out what I should do. And I spent a lot of years before that, like just not knowing there's like a ton of different types of therapy, there's medication, there's all these things. And then there's everything that's on the internet and social media as well. There's people trying to sell you like supplements and whatever. There's just so much out there and it's really hard to know where to go. So I would recommend ⁓ Pete: Yeah, card. Gemma: looking up one of the mental health charities, there's a few of them around. I've worked with Mental Health America for a few years to create artwork for them. And they have some really great screening tools and just basic information that can help you find what you need, like more help or help lines, stuff like that. Because as soon as you start Googling, there's a whole rabbit hole of stuff. Pete: I love it. Yeah. ⁓ God, yes. Yes. ⁓ no. So, you know, I do have another one to add to your toolkit. Have you ever heard of the help hub.co? ⁓ Our good friend Lisa Sugarman actually went and took the time to put this thing together. But it's like I one stop shop for like mental health things like you could explore it. And it's even based on certain religions, like, you know, some religions believe certain things. Gemma: you I haven't. Pete: She literally went through and put all this work in. It's a real great site to check out for anybody that's listening and anybody you know that might need some help. That's a great one too to offer them as well. She's partnered with recovery.com and things like that too. So, but let's get into the Google thing, okay? So my biggest fear is when people Google things, what they're finding on the internet, because like there's a guy I knew that I was watching some of his stuff and then he was telling people like, go back. He's like, if you're depressed, Go back to your 18. You'll feel better. like, but what if I hated myself 18? You know what I mean? Like the internet's a scary place these days. Are you worried about like, you know, what people are putting out there because like you're going to be constantly fighting this now because you're like, no, that's not right. Like, stop. Like y'all need to quit right now. It's horrible. You know, your friends will come to you and say something. You're just going look at them like, no, that's not right. You need to quit. Where'd you find it? And then they say like Wikipedia or Google or chat GPT. And you're like, oh God, here we go. Let me talk to you. Gemma: Yeah, people do mean well. Everybody has a different experience. some people have found something that works for them, and that's great. But I think people also, because they might be confused about what anxiety actually is, they might have found something that works for their stress, for example. Pete: I know they do, yeah. Yeah. Gemma: think well this will work for everyone and it doesn't work like that so you'll have people on the internet talking about a supplement that really helped for their anxiety but that's a that's a very big spectrum right anxiety so maybe they'll say oh it stopped me um it stopped me having a panic attack but then Pete: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Gemma: you don't know what that person's experience of a panic attack is. Everyone's so individual that it's really, really hard to just go by stuff that you read online. I think it's really helpful to have some kind of guide, whether it's a therapist or, you know, a mental health charity that has cold hard facts rather than just opinions. Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get you. I like that. I like that point you made that everybody, you know, it may work for you, but it may not work for me. think that's a really great point people need to remember is that just because what works for Gemma doesn't work for Pete and then for so and so and things like that, too. So I did want to ask you, though, I did look at some of your socials. I know you have a massive following Instagram, but I was wondering about what your experience with TikTok is. Have you have you had a great experience? Is it kind of like a mixed feeling? You know, because now you're really putting some stuff out there. And these people in those comments can get a little savage as we discussed earlier. So what has your experience been like? Have you done any lives, anything like that? you gone live and talked to people about it? Or you have any plans to do that kind of stuff? Gemma: ⁓ I don't use TikTok a ton just because I have so many other things going on that I just kind of thought that adding one more was just too much. So I do have an account but I don't really use it. But I've started using Instagram for Reels a little bit more. I haven't done any lives yet. It's something I may do. Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Gemma: I've done some kind of ask me anythings, just text based stuff. And I do really like doing that. It's a nice way of being able to communicate with people because I get a lot of DMs and I can't answer them all. It's too much. But if I dedicate like a couple of hours just to answering questions and because people can be a little bit more anonymous online as well. Pete: Yeah. Yeah, no, I get you on that one. Gemma: I mean that can go both ways, can embolden people to be awful, but it can also allow them to ask questions that they might be a little bit scared about asking. Pete: Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine the DMs you get, because I get weird ones, you know, and I don't even have the nearest focus following you. I can just only imagine the things people ask you in a private setting. But you know, like that'd be kind of cool, though. You think about it, you do like a little live here and there, start talking to people. You could do like our good friend, Jennifer, Jen Bell, she calls it a post and goes like you just set up something, record a little cool video and then drop it and go. And that's all you do. know, that's like this. Tick tock is kind of like. Gemma: No. Mm-hmm. Pete: I've been playing around with it. I just amassed about 5,000 people on there now and I've been kind of playing with it a little bit. It's a lot of work, man. I'm on everything. I'm an ex all the way down to TikTok. I'm on everything possible and I'm a one man show. I don't have anybody else helping me. So I'm doing this all on my own. So my anxiety is a constant up and down. People are like, how are you doing, Pete? I'm over caffeinated to the point. My anxiety hates me, but I'm awake. So that works because I record this show. Gemma: you Right. Pete: on Mondays and Tuesdays, I do three to four interviews ⁓ a week and things like that too. So I'm constantly on the go. And then when I'm not doing that, I'm constantly doing other things. And I have this partnership. So I can only imagine the things that you get coming through on your Instagram feed and things like that too, know, stuff like that as well. And stuff like that too. But Gemma, we're at that part of the show where I'm going to ask you those two questions I mentioned to you early on. Gemma: Bye. Pete: ⁓ You know there there is a very interesting question I asked all my guests and I'm kind of curious to see what your responses So this one comes in for my good friend at Gretchen who runs a podcast called the shit that goes on her head ⁓ She asked me when we interviewed she said to me Pete if your mental health had a song What would that song be so Gemma? This is the same question for you if your mental health had a song What would you say that song would be and you can break this down however you want? Gemma: That's a really good question. Music is such a big thing for me and I would say that there's like a bunch of different songs that kind of speak to it in so many different ways. Pete: Massive, massive for myself. So let's redo it this way. So Gemma, if you had a playlist of mental health songs, what are those top five songs you're listening to? Give me a little insight to what your music taste is. Gemma: So I have a very ⁓ eclectic music taste in that I love punk and I love musical theatre. So between the two of them... Pete: Here we go. Okay. ⁓ Nothing wrong with Disney came out with some really great musicals early on. We all remember Newsy's. That was a big one for us. My sister made me watch that religiously. That's okay. And a punk rock? Hey, you got me a punk rock. I like it. What would you say your top five songs would be? you were having a bad day, Gemma's going to go to that playlist. What are your songs that you're playing? Just give people a feel for what you're listening to. Gemma: ⁓ yes, yeah. Okay, I would say that Fugazi's Waiting Room is a big one for me. I just like the rhythmic-ness of it and it's always a go-to for me to listen to any mood. I can listen to that. And then ⁓ if I'm kind of more... If I'm angry and I wanna... Pete: Mm-hmm. Gemma: get that out, then there's a band called Lamborini Girls who are out of the UK, who I really love. And then I've got the combination of punk rock and musical theatre in Me First and the Gimme Gimmies. So something like that cover of Phantom of the Opera. And then maybe like a Ramones song for something fast and furious. Pete: Okay. Yeah. Yep, hormones are great. Gemma: And then if I want to cry, I always go for something from Les Miserables or from Hamilton. There's a song from Hamilton called It's Quiet Uptown. And there's a line in it that goes, when you're in so deep, I'm paraphrasing, moments when you're in so deep that it's easier to just swim down. And that part gets me. every time because it just describes feeling, ⁓ depression in particular, so well, like better than any other thing that I've read. Pete: Yeah, well, that's really cool. I like that. I think that's a very interesting answer. didn't see punk rock and musicals coming out, listen, hey, listen, I'm not judging over here. I love music myself. I'm a huge punk rock guy. The Ramones are big. My mom is the one that introduced me to them. The Sex Pistols were on that list as well, you know, and a bunch of those other bands that were over in UK, because a lot of the punk rock came from there. That's where a lot of the origins for these guys came, and then it came this way, and then I got into other stuff. My whole thing goes all over the place. So my real quick, mine was, anxiety was... Gemma: you and Pete: Bad omens artificial suicides my new one my other one I couldn't remember I chose the other one with anything fast-paced You know like cuz that's what my anxiety is like you know the facet in my depression song Was turn the light on leave the talk away the dark by Papa Roach now because the music video alone is so powerful because it's you know at the end of it it says you know if you need help the 988 is right there and I think it's great Because 980 is really a powerful thing here in the states for people. You know it's a real great Gemma: Mm-hmm. Thank Pete: tool, lot of people, you know, you'll get mixed reviews of people who say about it, but that just means they never use it because 988 actually co-hosted another show I do. She and I, we discussed it. She said that she had had to use it and then they followed up two days later with them. Like you can't, you can't beat that kind of support system right there. So, you know, and things like that. So Gemma, we are at the last question of this interview before we start wrapping up. So the question to you now, and the reason I started this whole podcast is that if you could break the stigma about mental health. Gemma: Great, yeah. Yeah. Pete: Now when I ask you this question, this is in your own opinion, what do you feel like the one thing you want people to stop thinking about and stop stigmatizing about it? Gemma: I think the stigma that the people who struggle with their mental health are one type of person. It can affect absolutely anybody from any walk of life. doesn't matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter whether you had a good or bad childhood. There are a lot of things that people try and pin mental health on and you just can't. It can happen to absolutely anybody. And just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean that something's not going to happen in the future. I don't mean that as it sounds a bit scary, like it's coming for you, but you know, you just don't know. Pete: I absolutely love it, Gemma. Thank You It's like, don't mind that fear in the closet is just your anxiety coming to get you. No, but Gemma, thank you so much for coming to Hangout. It was such an honor to have you. I appreciate you coming to Hangout with me. I'm looking forward to everybody else checking out this book and everything like that. So before we start wrapping up, where would you like everybody to reach out to? I know you said Instagram is usually your heavy preface. Is that where you want people to go? Plug that. Plug your ad in your Instagram or any other socials want. The book will be available everywhere I would take it, right? Amazon, anywhere they can find their books out. Yeah. Gemma: Yeah. Pete: Okay, well go ahead and plug it up for us. Tell them where they can find you, Gemma. Gemma: Yeah, so you can find me. Instagram is where I am the most often. I also use threads and Facebook. Anywhere that you want to find me, it's just my full name, Gemma Correll. And yeah, the book will be available in all good bookstores. Maybe some bad ones too, but I don't know. And I'll be going to events too. Pete: I see she says all good bookstores. Although you put in like, ⁓ you know, all good bookstores, you know, anyway, may be some bad ones out there. Heck yeah. Gemma: I've got a few Comic Cons and few book tour events coming up as well around the country. Pete: ⁓ there you go. So do you want to plug what Comic Cons you're going to be at for anybody listening? Because I know this will be out right before the book drops. So is it going to be after that point? Gemma: Yes, so I'm still planning for the year, what I know for sure is that I've got SBX in September, the small press expo in Bethesda, Maryland, which I've been doing for years. It's a brilliant convention. And then there's also Short Run, which is another comics expo in Seattle in November. And then everything else I'll be posting online once I know where I'm going to be. Pete: Okay, okay. Awesome. I'll I'm for sure we'll be looking out for it so I can share it out to everybody so they know. But Jemma, thank you so much for being here again. I appreciate it. You know, it's been a pleasure having you. I am really enjoying the book and everything like that too. Guys, go out there and check out her book. The day you hear this, the next day it comes out tomorrow, guys. I want you all to go out and let her know you heard her on Pete First's anxiety. Guys, go see her in person. You heard her, she's gonna be out there doing the grind here soon. She got a couple dates she already listed. Plenty more to come, guys. Watch out for on my socials or anything else. With that being said, guys, Gemma: Thanks. Thank you. Pete: We're going to wrap up this episode of Peteford's anxiety. You know where to find me on Peteford's anxiety and X all the way down to TikTok. I'm on Spotify all the way down to Pandora radio. And as always say, it costs nothing. Absolutely not to be kind to somebody. One kind act you could do can save someone's life or hell you can make their day. I'm Peteford's anxiety sign out saying, don't ask how your day is. They say, Hey, how's your mental health? Gemma: Thanks.