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The First Seminary: A Biblical Case for Pastoral Training · Reformed Thinking

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Welcome to Reformed Thinking. I am your host and looking at
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the stack of documents on the table today, I have to say I am
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feeling a mix of intimidation and excitement.
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That is usually the right emotional cocktail when we
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tackle theology. Good to be here with you.
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Before we crack open the books, we need to do a little
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housekeeping on who we are. We aren't coming at this from a
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neutral, view from nowhere perspective.
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We are two Protestant Christians.
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We are specifically, we hold to the Westminster Confession of
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Faith. Right.
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So for the listener who might be new to that term, it means we
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believe that God is sovereign over all things, that Scripture
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is the final rule for faith in life, and that grace is the only
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reason any of us are sitting here.
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We like our theology thick and we like our history dusty.
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But today we are asking a question that feels very modern,
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almost almost bureaucratic. We are talking about training.
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Sounds dry when you put it that way, training, but it is
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actually a matter of life and death for the Church.
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The specific question on the docket is this is the idea of a
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seminary. You know, the formal school, the
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degrees, the professors, the Ivy covered brick buildings.
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Is that actually in the Bible or did we just invent it in the
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last few centuries because we like credentials?
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It is a valid challenge. If you scan a concordance for
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the Word Seminary, you will come up empty.
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It is not there. So does that mean it is
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unbiblical? Just a man made tradition?
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To figure that out, we have two main sources for this deep dive.
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First, we are looking at an article called The First
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Seminary by Nathan Busnitz, which is actually a chapter from
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a book called Biblical Missions. That is going to give us our
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historical anchor and our biblical exegesis.
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And then, because we don't want to stay in the ivory tower, we
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have a transcript of an interview titled Intentional
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Discipleship in Lebanon. This features a missionary, Mark
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Jeffries, and a local Lebanese believer, Maurice Boutros.
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So the plan is to connect the dots from the Reformation in
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Geneva all the way back to the Apostle Paul in the 1st century,
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and then land the plane in modern day Beirut to see if the
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model holds up. It is a lot of ground to cover
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and frankly some of the math we are going to do later regarding
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the Apostle Paul schedule and made me want to take a nap just
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reading about it. It is exhausting just to think
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about, but let's start with the history.
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When we talk about our theological heritage, usually
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all roads lead back to Geneva. John Calvin, the man, the myth,
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the theologian. People usually think of Calvin
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as a writer. They think of the Institute's or
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they think of him as a preacher. But we often miss that he was,
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at his core, an educator. The source material pinpoints a
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very specific date, June 51559. A significant Monday in the
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history of the church. Tell me about the scene.
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What was happening in Geneva on that day?
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John Calvin was dedicating a new building.
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This was the inauguration of the Geneva Academy.
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Now you have to wipe away the modern image of a university
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dedication. This wasn't a bunch of wealthy
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donors drinking champagne and cutting a ribbon.
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What was the vibe? You have to remember the Geneva
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at this time was essentially A refugee camp.
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The Reformation was sweeping through Europe, but the counter
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reaction was violent. If you were Protestant in France
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or Scotland or the Netherlands, you were target.
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You could be imprisoned, you could be burned at the stake.
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So people were fleeing to Geneva for safety.
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Right. The city was packed with
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displaced people, traumatized people, and in the middle of
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this crisis, Calvin decides to build a school.
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The source brings up the structure of this school.
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It wasn't just one thing. It was 2 tiered.
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They had the college, which was for the youth, basically getting
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them up to speed on reading, writing, and general education.
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But then they had the scholar public, the seminary.
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This was specifically for training pastors.
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There is a detail in the text about where the building was
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located. It says it was built only a
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short distance from Calvin's Church, Saint Pierre.
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That geography tells you everything you need to know
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about their philosophy. The proximity was intentional.
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It showed that the Academy and the church were married.
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They weren't dating, they were married.
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That feels different from today. Often it feels like the academic
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world of theology is over here in the university dealing with
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high minded theories and the local churches over there
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dealing with potlucks and parking lots.
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And that disconnect is fatal. For Calvin, the Academy existed
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solely to work for the church. It wasn't an ivory tower where
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you went to think abstract thoughts.
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It was the engine room for the congregation.
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Who were the students? Were they these local Swiss
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kids? Some were, but the source points
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out that many were those refugees.
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We talked about aspiring leaders who had come to Geneva from all
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over Europe. They came to get equipped with
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the specific goal of going back. Going back to the places that
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were hunting them. Yes, and that is why the
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curriculum had to be so rigorous.
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The source lists what they studied.
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Hermeneutics. Hebrew.
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Greek. Dogmatic theology.
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Homiletics. OK, play devil's advocate for a
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second. If the goal is to go back to
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France and preach the simple gospel to farmers and merchants,
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why do they need Hebrew? Why do they need high level
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dogmatics? Isn't that overkill?
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That is the question we always ask in our pragmatic age.
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Just give me the basics. But think about what these men
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were facing. They were going back to a
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context where they would likely be arrested.
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They needed to be able to defend the truth against the sharpest
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minds of the establishment church.
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And more than that, they needed a conviction that was rock
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solid. You don't die for a hunch.
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Spot on. You don't face the fire for a
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vibe or a general sense of spirituality.
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You face it because you know down to the original Greek and
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Hebrew that this is the word of God.
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The academic rigor wasn't about showing off.
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It was about survival. It was about creating a backbone
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of steel. So Calvin is running this
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intense training center in the 1500s.
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Let's jump in The Time Machine and move forward about 3
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centuries. We are going to Victorian
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London. To the Prince of Preachers,
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Charles Spurgeon. Now everyone knows Spurgeon.
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If you have been a Christian for more than 5 minutes, you have
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probably seen a quote of his on social media.
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He is incredibly quotable. We think of him as the guy who
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preached to thousands at the Metropolitan Tabernacle.
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We don't usually think of him as a professor.
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But the source argues that his role as a trainer was just as
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significant as his role as a preacher, and the story of how
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his college started is great because it is so accidental.
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It wasn't a grand strategy. Not at first.
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It started in 1855 with one guy, a young man named Thomas
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Medhurst. Just one student.
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Just one Spurgeon met with him weekly.
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Here's the most famous preacher in the world, with all the
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demands on his time, carving out hours every week to sit with one
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young man and teach him theology.
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That is the definition of organic.
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It wasn't a board meeting decision.
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It was a personal investment. And because it was effective, it
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grew. One student became 22, became a
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dozen. By 1864, less than 10 years
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later, he had over 100 men. That is rapid growth.
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The need for a formal structure became obvious.
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He couldn't just do it in his study anymore, so he founded the
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pastors college. I appreciate the name.
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It's not the Spurgeon Institute for Advanced Intellectual
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Discourse. It's just the pastors College.
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It does what it says on the tin. It reflects his pragmatism.
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He wasn't trying to create scholars who would write dusty
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books that no one reads. He was trying to create pastors
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who would shepherd real people. The numbers in the source are
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staggering. It says by the time Spurgeon
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died in 1892, nearly 900 men had been trained there. 900 Imagine
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the footprint of that. And the source makes a really
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cool point about geography here too.
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Spurgeon himself was pretty local.
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He was in London, he didn't travel the world.
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He stayed in his pulpit, but the graduates, they went everywhere.
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The source list China, South Africa, Australia, South
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America. It is the difference between
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addition and multiplication. That is it.
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You preach a great sermon. You add listeners.
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If you train a pastor, you multiply congregations.
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Spurgeon understood that his legacy wasn't just his own
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voice. It was the voices of the men he
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trained. So we have the Geneva Model,
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Rigorous academic. Near the church.
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We have the Spurgeon model, Organic, Pastoral Missional.
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But now we have to face the music.
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The Sola Scriptura music. Right, because Calvin is great
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and Spurgeon is great, but they aren't the apostles.
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If we claim to be people of the juk, we need to find this in the
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book. Is there actually a biblical
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precedent for a seminary? This brings us to the core of
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Nathan Bussenitz's argument. He takes us to the book of Acts
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chapter 19. This is Paul's third missionary
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trip. It is.
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We are looking at roughly AD 52 to 56.
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Paul arrives in Ephesus. Set the stage for us.
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What is Ephesus like? It is not a sleepy village.
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Ephesus was a metropolis. Think of it as a combination of
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New York City and Las Vegas, with a massive religious shrine
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in the middle. It was a hub of commerce, but it
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was also the home of the Temple of Artemis.
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One of the wonders of the ancient world.
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Huge Pagan temple cult, prostitution, occult practices,
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magic. It was a spiritually dark, heavy
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place and Paul walks right into the middle.
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Of it he starts in the synagogue as usual.
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It was a standard operating procedure.
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Go to the Jews first. He preaches there for three
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months. The text says he was speaking
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out boldly and reasoning and persuading them about the
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Kingdom of God. But then the walls go up.
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Resistance sets in. Acts 19.9 says that some of them
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became hardened, they stopped believing and not only that,
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they started speaking evil of the way in front of the
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multitude. The way being the early term for
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Christianity. Right.
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So the synagogue transitions from a place of opportunity to a
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hostile environment. They are publicly trashing the
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gospel. So this is the pivot point.
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Paul has a choice. He can pack up and leave town.
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He can try to fight them or he can do something else.
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He chooses option C, he withdraws, he detates the
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disciples, the people who actually believed, and he moves
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his operation. He goes to the school of
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Tyrannis. We have to stop on that name the
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school of Tyrannis. It sounds like a villain in a
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comic book. It really does tyrannis.
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The Greek word literally means tyrant.
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So was that his actual name given at birth?
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Hello little baby tyrant. Probably not.
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Scholars think it was likely a nickname given to him by his
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students. That makes sense.
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Here comes Mr. Tyrant. So he was probably a tough
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teacher, maybe a rhetoric professor who drilled his
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students hard. Or just a generally unpleasant
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landlord. We don't know for sure, but the
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source notes the irony. You have the Hall of the Tyrant,
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a place probably associated with harshness, now hosting the
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Apostle of Grace. So Paul rents this hall and
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this, according to our source, is the first seminary.
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It is the prototype. You have a distinct space.
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You have a distinct teacher. You have a distinct group of
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students and you have a curriculum.
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Let's breakdown what actually happened there.
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The source identifies 3 features, the imperative, the
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investment, and the impact. Let's look at the imperative
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first. This is about the content.
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We talked about how Paul left the synagogue.
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The analysis in the source makes a really sharp point here.
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Paul didn't leave because he was thin skinned.
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He left because the message was polarizing.
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He. Didn't soften it.
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No, when the synagogue got angry, Paul didn't say.
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OK guys, let's find some common ground.
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Let's tone down the Jesus stuff and just talk about monotheism.
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That would be the modern temptation.
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Let's be relevant. Let's not offend.
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Paul knew that the gospel is inherently offensive to the
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pride of man. It says you are a Sinner and you
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cannot save yourself. That makes people mad.
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The source quotes Donald Barnhouse, who says that the
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reaction Paul got is the same reaction any faithful witness
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will get. Some will believe, but the
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majority will harden. So the mandate for this school
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and any seminary is to champion the truth, even when the culture
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hates it. Especially when the culture
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hates it. The School of Tyrannis was a
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countercultural institution. OK, that is the message.
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Now we get to the method, the investment.
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And this is the part where the math gets crazy.
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This is my favorite detail in the research.
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The source brings up the western text of Acts.
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Explain what that is for a second it.
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Is a manuscript tradition, essentially an ancient version
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of the book of Acts. It includes a specific detail
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that isn't in some of our standard Bibles, but scholars
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believe it reflects accurate historical information.
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It adds a time stamp to Paul's teaching.
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It says he taught from the 5th hour to the 10th hour.
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In Roman time keeping, the day starts at sunrise around 60 AM.
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So the 5th hour is 110AM, the 10th hour is 4.00 AM. 11 to 4,
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middle of the day. Why is that significant?
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Because in Ephesus, and really in that whole region, 1100 AM is
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when everything stopped the. Siesta.
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The heat is intense. The sun is beating down.
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Shops closed, shutters are pulled.
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People went home to eat and sleep.
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The city went quiet. So the lecture hall of Tyrannis
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was probably empty. And cheap Charnes probably
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wasn't renting it out for top dollar during the nap time.
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So Paul, who we know is on a budget, rents the graveyard
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shift of the day. But wait.
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Connect this to Paul's day job. We know he was a tent maker.
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He worked with his hands. This is where it gets grueling.
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Paul likely woke up at sunrise, worked his manual labor job
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cutting leather, stitching heavy fabric until 110AM.
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He is working hard. He is sweating.
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Then the whistle blows. Everyone else goes home to nap.
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And Paul wipes the sweat off his face, grabs his quick bite, runs
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to the lecture hall and teaches theology for five hours late.
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Well, everyone else is sleeping. And then at 4:00 PM, when the
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city wakes up again, he likely went back to work or did
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evangelism in the market. That is incredible, I feel lazy
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just hearing about it. It is convicting.
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But think about the students, too.
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Who were they? They weren't wealthy aristocrats
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with leisure time. They were likely workers too.
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They were giving up their rest to learn doctrine.
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They were trading sleep for truth.
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That shows a level of hunger that we rarely see.
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They were willing to be physically exhausted, to get
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mentally sharpened. The source does the math on the
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Siesta school. Let's walk through it 5 hours a
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day. Yeah, six days a week for two
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years. OK 5 * 6 is 30 hours a week
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times roughly 50 weeks in a year.
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It comes out to approximately 3000 hours of instruction. 3000
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hours I cannot even wrap my head around.
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That Let's compare it to a modern context.
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A standard seminary course, like a semester long class on the
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Gospels, is usually about three credit hours.
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That translates to roughly 40 hours of actual classroom time.
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So 3000 / 40. It is the equivalent of about 75
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modern seminary courses. 75 courses that is multiple
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degrees. It is several Master of Divinity
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degrees stacked on top of each other in two years.
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That completely destroys the idea that the early church was
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just floating around on vibes and spirit LED chaos.
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It was incredibly structured. It was systematic.
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Paul wasn't just giving them a thought for the day, Acts 20
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says. He declared to them the whole
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purpose of God. The whole Council.
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That implies a system. He taught them soteriology, how
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we are saved, Christology, who Jesus is, pneumatology, the work
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of the Spirit, ecclesiology, how the Church runs.
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He gave them the entire framework of the faith.
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And he did it during his lunch break.
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It redefines what we mean by discipleship.
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We think discipleship is meeting for coffee once a month for an
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hour. Paul thought discipleship was
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3000 hours of immersive instruction.
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So you have the imperative, the bold message, you have the
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investment, the massive time commitment.
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Now, what was the result? The impact?
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X 19.10 gives us the report card.
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It says all who lived in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both
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Jews and Greeks. All who lives in Asia now, Asia
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here doesn't mean the continent like China and Japan.
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No, it refers to the Roman province of Asia, which is
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basically the western chunk of modern day Turkey.
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But still, that is a huge area, hundreds of thousands of.
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People. Did Paul go to all those towns
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personally? He couldn't have.
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He was in the lecture hall every day from 11:00 to 4:00.
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He was tied to the school. So how did they hear?
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The students This is a radiating center concept.
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Paul poured into these men in the Hall of Tyrannis.
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Then they left the hall and went back to their hometowns.
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We went to the Lycus Valley. The source mentions cities like
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Colisea, Hieropolis, Leticia. Right, we have the book of
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Colossians in our Bible, but Paul had never been to
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Colossians when he wrote it. He says in chapter 2 that they
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had not seen his face. So who started the church there?
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A man named Epiphras. And where did Epiphras learn the
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gospel? Almost certainly in the school
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of Tyrannis. So Epiphras sits in the hot
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lecture hall, learns from Paul, goes home and plants a church.
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And likely the seven churches of Revelation, Ephesus, Smyrna,
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Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laotia were all
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founded or strengthened during this two year window.
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It was a missions machine. It was the seminary wasn't the
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end of the road. It was the launchpad.
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You come in, you get loaded up with truth, and you shoot out to
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plant churches. It really validates the model.
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Concentrated training leads to exponential expansion.
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And that leads us to the next link in the chain.
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Because Paul didn't stay in Ephesus forever.
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Eventually he leaves and years later we find him in a very
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different setting. He is in Rome, he is in a
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dungeon. He is waiting to be beheaded by
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Nero. The mood has changed.
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It is the end of his life. He picks up his pen to write his
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final letter. Second Timothy.
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And he writes it to his spiritual son, Timothy.
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And where is Timothy at this point?
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He is pastoring in Ephesus, the very same city.
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So the geography circles back. Paul writes the famous verse
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Second Timothy 2.2. The things which you have heard
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from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to
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faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
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The source suggests there is a memory trigger in that verse.
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Think about it, when Paul says the things you heard from me in
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the presence of many witnesses, what is Timothy picturing?
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He is picturing the school of Tyrannus.
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Acts 19.22 tells us Timothy was there.
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He was one of the guys in the room.
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He saw Paul sweating. He saw Paul answering questions.
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He saw the grind. So when Paul says do what I did,
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he isn't speaking abstractly. He is saying, Timothy, remember
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the lecture hall, remember the 3000 hours?
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Do that. Find faithful men.
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Pour the truth into them so they can pour it into others.
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It is the chain of custody. Paul the Timothy Timothy to
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faithful men, Faithful men to others. 4 generations in one
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verse. And the mechanism for that
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transfer, the actual tool used to move the deposit of faith
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from one brain to another, was the rigorous daily teaching
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model. The Tyrannis model.
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So to answer the question we started with, it's a seminary.
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Biblical, the source argues absolutely yes.
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Whether you call it a seminary, an Academy, or a discipleship
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center, the principle is the same.
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You need a dedicated time and space to transfer the
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heavyweight of God's truth to the next generation.
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That is a compelling case from history and Scripture.
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But I can hear the skeptic in the back of the room saying, OK,
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that worked for Paul in the 1st century, that worked for Calvin
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in the 16th century, but we live in the 21st century.
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The world is different. We have the Internet, we have
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global travel, we have completely different cultural
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dynamics. Does this Tyrannis model, this
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heavy investment actually work today, or is it an antique?
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To answer that, we turn to our second source for this deep
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dive, the interview from Lebanon.
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This brings us to Mark Jeffries and Maurice Boutros.
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Let's introduce them. Mark is an American missionary.
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Maurice is a Lebanese national who came to faith and is now a
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partner in the ministry. And right out of the gate,
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Maurice gives us a reality check.
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He critiques what he calls the tourist missionary.
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That is a stinging phrase. Tourist.
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Missionary. It is sharp, but it comes from
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his experience. He describes missionaries who
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come to Lebanon for short stints, one year, two years.
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About two weeks. Right.
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They come, they distribute money, they run a program, they
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take some photos, and they leave.
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He says they treat it like a third world project.
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He says they don't share our problems, they're visitors, they
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have returned ticket in their pocket and because of that they
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never really understand the context.
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That is the opposite of the Tyrannis model.
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Paul moved in for two years. He worked the local jobs.
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He lived on the local schedule. Mark Jeffries, the missionary in
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the interview, adopts that Pauline mindset.
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But he admits it wasn't easy. When he arrived in Lebanon, he
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had a major problem. He couldn't speak Arabic.
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Right, so he couldn't just rent a hall and start lecturing on
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Romans. He was effectively mute.
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So what did he do? He.
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Had to rely on life on on life. Discipleship.
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He couldn't teach with words, so he taught with his actions.
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Maurice says something striking here.
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He says I saw what he would do in hard times.
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This is the crisis's classroom concept.
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Lebanon has been through a lot in the last few years.
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To revolution. The financial collapse Imagine
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your life savings evaporating overnight because the currency
20:33
lost 90% of its value. The.
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Port explosion in Beirut. Massive devastation, windows
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blown out for miles. Mark was there for all of that,
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and Maurice was watching him. He was watching how the theology
20:45
actually worked when the glass was shattering.
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Yes, you can lecture on the sovereignty of God in a clean
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air conditioned classroom. It is a nice concept.
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But when your bank account is frozen and your house is damaged
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and the missionary is standing there beside you, not panicking
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but praying, that is the lesson. Maurice says it is not about a
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book, it is about availability and confronting sin.
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That confrontation piece is interesting.
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He says Mark earned the right to confront him because of the
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relationship. They drank a lot of coffee.
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Gallons of coffee. In the Middle East, coffee is
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the vehicle for discipleship. You sit, you talk, you build
21:21
trust, and then you open the Bible.
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Let's talk about the language barrier again, because the
21:26
source calls this a strategic cultural adaptation.
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Mark spent six years learning Arabic.
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Six years, just pause on that. That is a massive amount of
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time. Think about the humility
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required. You are a grown man.
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You have a theology degree of things to say, but for six years
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you speak like a toddler. You stumble over words.
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You make mistakes. Why do it?
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Why not just use a translator? Maurice explains the payoff.
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Because Mark learned the language, he wasn't just able to
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disciple Maurice, he was able to talk to Maurice's father.
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And Mark's wife could talk to Maurice's mother.
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The older generation didn't speak English.
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If Mark had relied on English, he would have hit a generational
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wall. By paying the cost of the
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language, He unlocked the family.
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He unlocked the culture. Mark quotes First Corinthians
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9.22. I have become all things to all
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men. He interprets that in a very
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challenging way. He says to become all things,
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you have to stop being some things.
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You have to give up parts of your own cultural identity.
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You cannot be fully American if you want to be effective in
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Lebanon. You have to createspace in your
22:29
heart for the new culture, and that means evicting some of your
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old comforts. Which brings us to the section
22:35
on the cost, because Maurice drops a metaphor that I think
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every Western listener needs to hear.
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The Disneyland comment. Tell us about that.
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Maurice He visited the United States.
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He saw the churches, the homes, the lifestyle and he thanked the
22:49
team for leaving Disneyland. He calls America Disneyland.
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Is he wrong? Think about it from his
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perspective. You flip a switch, the lights
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come on always. You turn a handle, clean water
23:00
comes out. You want gas, it is at the pump.
23:02
You want food? It is delivered tomorrow.
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It is a fantasy world compared to the instability of the Middle
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East. So when a missionary leaves that
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voluntarily leaves the Magic Kingdom to come live in a place
23:14
where the power cuts out and the government is unstable, that
23:19
sacrifice speaks louder than any sermon.
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It validates the message. It says this gospel is worth
23:24
more than comfort. But Mark warns about a new
23:26
danger, the technology trap. This is so relevant.
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He says technology keeps us tethered to Disneyland.
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In the old days, like Adoniram Judson going to Burma in the
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1800s, when you left, you left. You packed your stuff in a
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coffin. You said goodbye forever.
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You cut the cord, there was no going back.
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But today you land in Beirut and you can video call your mom in
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Ohio before you even leave the airport.
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You can watch the shows you like.
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You can follow your favorite football team.
23:52
And Mark says that is a trap because if you are emotionally
23:55
living in Ohio every night for two hours, you are never fully
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present in Beirut. You are a ghost.
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You are haunting the mission field, but your heart is back
24:05
home. That is a haunting image.
24:07
He says you have to accept the loss, you have to grieve your
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culture, you have to cut the cord.
24:12
He says your closest relationships must become the
24:15
people in the local church. That is a hard word.
24:18
It means your best friend cannot be the guy back home you text
24:21
all day. It has to be the guy like
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Maurice. And that involves risk, huge
24:25
risk. Mark talks about betrayal.
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If you open your life to someone in a foreign context, if you
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rely on them, trust them, you are vulnerable.
24:34
They could hurt you, they could cheat you, they could turn on
24:36
the ministry. But if you don't take that risk,
24:39
wait. If you don't step out there, you
24:40
don't get. The connection you never get the
24:42
reward you never get the life on life dynamic.
24:45
Marie says that Mark didn't just lecture him, he became a
24:48
brother, and that brotherhood was the base for the truth.
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So we have come full circle. We started with Paul in the
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lecture hall in Ephesus. We went to Calvin in the refugee
25:00
camp of Geneva. We ended up with Mark in a
25:02
coffee shop in Lebanon. And the pattern is identical.
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What are the common threads? First, rigor.
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It is never light. It is 3000 hours.
25:11
It was Hebrew and Greek. It is 6 years of Arabic.
25:15
It is hard work. Second investment.
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It is personal. It is Paul sweating with his
25:19
students. It is Calvin building the school
25:21
next to the church. It is Mark drinking coffee and
25:24
dealing with explosions with Maurice and third
25:28
multiplication. It never stops with the student.
25:30
It radiates out. Ephesus reaches Asia, Geneva
25:34
reaches Europe. Mark reaches Maurice, who
25:37
reaches his people. It is the same gospel, the same
25:40
method, just different centuries.
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So as we wrap up this deep dive, I want to turn the spotlight on
25:45
you, the listener. Because chances are you aren't
25:47
about to move to Beirut, and you probably aren't going to quit
25:50
your job to start a lecture hall during nap time.
25:52
But the principle of the tyrannis model still applies to
25:54
you. We live in an age of down
25:57
unloaded knowledge. We think if we listen to an
26:00
audio show, even a good one like this, we are trained.
26:04
We treat knowledge as a commodity.
26:06
We consume it. But the biblical model is that
26:10
training is an investment. It costs something.
26:12
It costs the Siesta. That is the challenge.
26:15
Paul gave up his leisure. Mark gave up his Disneyland
26:18
comforts. If you want to know God, I mean
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really know Him, not just have a few facts, but have that
26:25
structural theology that can withstand a crisis, what are you
26:29
willing to give? Up what needs to be cut off.
26:31
Is it the two hours of streaming TV at night?
26:34
Is it the scrolling on social media?
26:35
Is it the hobby that consumes all your mental energy?
26:38
You cannot have the impact of an Axe 19 without the investment of
26:41
an axe 19 you. Have to do the time, you have to
26:43
sit in the lecture hall, you have to find the faithful men.
26:46
We are the beneficiaries of a long chain of people who did
26:48
that, from Paul to Timothy all the way down to us.
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The question is, are we going to keep the chain going?
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That is the question. Something for you to chew on
26:57
this week. Think about what that cutting
27:00
off looks like in your own life. Thanks for taking this deep dive
27:03
with us. This has been reformed thinking.
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Until next time.