Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 2: Hilary Oliver

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My Favorite Things Episode 2: Hilary Oliver · My Favorite Things

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hilary Oliver, thanks for being here.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I feel very honored.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a writer.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Western Montana with my husband and my three-year-old son.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we live really close to you.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we actually might live in the same house.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: I understand.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: It says in my notes here, we're married to each other.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that three-year-old woke me up this morning at five 30.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Same, same one.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's my three-year-old.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of stuff do you write?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, my background is in, was in magazine writing.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I studied journalism and thought that was a way to go.
• 0:53
  And I've wound up finding my way to doing a lot of work in the
• 0:56
  outdoor industry,
• 0:57
  doing
• 0:58
  marketing and copywriting and still do a little occasional
• 1:02
  personal essay type writing.
• 1:05
  And so I have a Substack where I write some personal stuff and
• 1:11
  usually have some
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: sort of side project,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: either a book or essays that I'm trying to pitch.
• 1:18
  lot of it has to do with just either trail running or the
• 1:21
  outdoors or um larger
• 1:25
  life themes and parenting and things like that and um but right
• 1:29
  now kind of my
• 1:30
  bread and butter day-to-day work is um is for is doing
• 1:34
  copywriting for clients like
• 1:36
  hoka is one of my biggest clients and um or working for my
• 1:41
  friend's media agency
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: doing some work more for like philanthropic partners so um kind of the
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Bread and butter,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: stuff that pays the bills,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: and always trying to do my own little stuff on the side for fun.
• 1:54
  I understand your husband's nascent podcast is getting in the
• 1:58
  way of you writing
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: your Substack for this week,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: so maybe we should hurry.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's really easy to kick that one down.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's paying me for it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, a couple people are.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they are.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Which I appreciate.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: So as you know,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: this podcast is called My Favorite Things,
• 2:20
  and you sent me a list of five of your favorite creative works
• 2:24
  that you've
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: experienced throughout your life.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to go through them in chronological order.
• 2:29
  You are the second guest on this podcast,
• 2:32
  and you are the second person to have...
• 2:35
  Paul Simon's Graceland album on your list in the number one
• 2:38
  spot so can you take us
• 2:42
  to your first memory of listening to Graceland where were you
• 2:47
  how old were you yeah
• 2:49
  I was probably six or seven I'm not sure living in suburban
• 2:52
  Houston and my parents
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: had the tape and it was definitely my first memory of
• 2:59
  actually it was a second tape I stole now that I think of it
• 3:02
  the first was Herbie
• 3:03
  Hancock's like it was like a ripoff bootleg with rocket on it
• 3:08
  and that was but I
• 3:10
  listened which is great very memorable but this was like the
• 3:14
  first one where I like
• 3:16
  have listened to it continuously throughout my life you know
• 3:19
  like that was like my
• 3:20
  first memory of listening to something just over and over and
• 3:24
  the entire thing and
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: like I know every little
• 3:27
  note and every little layer and I'm now I'm so excited to hear
• 3:31
  um I can't wait to
• 3:33
  listen to the first episode with Bodhi because I want to hear
• 3:35
  what he said about
• 3:36
  Graceland and I want to know if your next person is going to
• 3:39
  mention Graceland too
• 3:41
  no no we're like we're we're outlawing it after this there's no
• 3:45
  more Graceland do
• 3:47
  you do you have a memory of what your favorite song on the
• 3:52
  album was when you were
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: six or seven
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have anything to look at it,
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: boy,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: it's definitely,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard to say what my favorite one was,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: but my most,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: the most clear memory I have is,
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: my sister and I,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: the third song on the album is I Know What I Know,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: and there's these,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: kind of unusual background vocals,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: like high-pitched,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 4:26
  general md shirinda and the gaza sisters and they like it was
• 4:31
  just nothing like
• 4:32
  nothing else sounds like that and i like remember like just
• 4:35
  dancing like crazy to
• 4:36
  it with my sister when we were little and then like listening
• 4:39
  to it over and over
• 4:40
  but like but i like it's one where i definitely don't skip like
• 4:46
  and i was just
• 4:46
  saying like i feel like every little line in that whole album
• 4:49
  is so rich with like
• 4:51
  unique sounds and vocals and the lyrics you know there's like
• 4:55
  not like a throwaway
• 4:56
  bit in the whole thing i think that's exactly what our last
• 5:01
  guest said there's no
• 5:02
  skips on the album but you can skip tracks pretty easily
• 5:07
  nowadays as opposed to
• 5:08
  when you're listening to a cassette so if you're going to cue
• 5:12
  it up to listen to
• 5:13
  while you're let's say cooking on a digital device what song do
• 5:18
  you start this
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: album on
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: The first one.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's boring.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: But like, that's like, it's such a, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's the, that's the answer.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: What's the first song?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's the boy in the bubble.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's the,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's the,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's the,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: accordion and the like lasers in the jungle.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: it's a feeling that is like,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: it feels so 80s and nostalgic,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: and yet as you're listening to the lyrics,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: they could be the same,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: they could be talking about now too,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 6:08
  even though the actual technology that he's talking about dates
• 6:11
  it so much in the
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: 80s.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the music is just a banger and like, fun, and something I
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was interesting.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know about like until recently.
• 6:27
  I just never gave that much thought to like the background of
• 6:31
  the album or like.
• 6:32
  how it was made I just loved all the different artists and like
• 6:35
  I knew that a lot
• 6:36
  of the artists were African but I didn't know how Paul Simon
• 6:41
  found them or whatever
• 6:42
  but and maybe Bodhi probably told you all about this but I had
• 6:47
  to look it up
• 6:47
  recently and I thought it was interesting that someone had
• 6:50
  given Paul Simon a mixed
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: tape of
• 6:55
  gumboots accordion jive hits album two that had that like
• 7:00
  sparked his interest in
• 7:02
  this type of music that was by these south african artists and
• 7:07
  um he said that it
• 7:09
  was it sounded hard driving hopeful and optimistic and i was
• 7:13
  like that's that's
• 7:14
  like that's what i like about this album is like it it is like
• 7:18
  even though it like
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: mostly like it has some like
• 7:24
  um bittersweet edges to it you know it's like not super like
• 7:30
  bubblegum pop you know
• 7:31
  but it's like but it's optimistic and hard driving you know and
• 7:36
  like but it's just
• 7:38
  just fun too like the saxophone bits and the accordion they
• 7:42
  just like it's the
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: album that feels to me like
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: can't listen to it and be in a bad mood, you know?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 7:54
  another eighties thing is that Chevy Chase is in the video for
• 7:58
  call me Al,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: which is feels very eighties.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Number two is a little book called Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: What, uh, what year or how old are you when you first read Jane Eyre?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think about that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was in college the first time.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I read it till college.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Big jump here.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it definitely was not, it was something that I picked up.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was not in class.
• 8:32
  I did take a couple of Brit Lit classes,
• 8:34
  but didn't study Jane Eyre in it.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just read it for fun and loved it as a college student.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't, like, I don't reread books very much.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's, like, just too many books out there to read, you know?
• 8:55
  But this is one that I have revisited,
• 8:57
  and I think I've read it three times.
• 8:59
  And it was quite a while between the first time I read it and
• 9:04
  the second time I read it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have found different things,
• 9:07
  and it meant something totally different to me from when I was
• 9:11
  in college than when
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was older.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 9:17
  and I didn't I didn't have the concept like I didn't also know
• 9:21
  that like when I was
• 9:23
  reading it in college like I was just reading it for
• 9:26
  entertainment you know I was
• 9:27
  not like looking at it with a critical eye really you know and
• 9:32
  I didn't realize
• 9:33
  that it really is like people call it like it was basically an
• 9:40
  ancestor of the
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: modern novel like one of the first modern novels and
• 9:45
  one of the first books that put the reader in the like interior
• 9:50
  mind of the
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: narrator,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: the narrator.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of a shift at that time.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a big deal literarily,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: but I just honestly was reading it as entertainment,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: and as for the story.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I, at the time I read it, I was in a,
• 10:12
  short story is I was in a really conservative Christian
• 10:14
  environment where like
• 10:16
  purity culture was a big thing and I think the I at that time
• 10:23
  the themes that I
• 10:25
  pulled out was were like oh Jane Eyre is such a character of
• 10:31
  she has such character
• 10:32
  she has such virtue and she stands up for her virtue you know
• 10:36
  and she doesn't give
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: in
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: and she's long suffering and she waits for the man that she loves,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: even through,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: like she,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: she stands up for,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I could give the summary in case you never read it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Not to be, not to brag.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, you should give the synopsis.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I read it because you recommended it to me and,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: which means a lot.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Cause it's not a, it's not a small book.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, you're welcome.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: What is, what is the synopsis?
• 11:13
  It's been a while since I've read it,
• 11:14
  but so,
• 11:15
  um,
• 11:16
  young girl,
• 11:17
  she's orphaned.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: She lives with,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 11:21
  I think aunt and cousin and is abused and mistreated and winds
• 11:25
  up in kind of a
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: boarding school for orphans,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: and mistreated there as well.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 11:32
  And also kind of people like assume whenever she is trying to
• 11:36
  do right or standing
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: up,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: they like call her wicked and such.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she like, she's trying to be good and, um, getting mislabeled maybe.
• 11:46
  And,
• 11:47
  um,
• 11:48
  she winds up at working as a governess in a,
• 11:52
  for a wealthy man who has,
• 11:53
  um,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: a relative,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: a little girl who needs a governess,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: and falling in love with this man,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: he falls in love with her,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: and she finds,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: ooh,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: what should I give?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Am I giving spoilers?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's Jane Eyre.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's Jane Eyre.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like it's a new show that just came out.
• 12:14
  So she finds out,
• 12:18
  they're about to get married,
• 12:19
  and she finds out that her fiancé is hiding
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: he's already been married,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: and he's hiding his wife in the attic,
• 12:29
  and she is a quote-unquote madwoman brought from the
• 12:34
  quote-unquote West Indies,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: and he's been hiding her in the attic,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: and she's like,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: you betrayed me,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: and she runs away because she's like,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can't marry you,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: and finds herself eventually living with this family young man who's a,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's a pastor,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: he
• 12:55
  missionary or evangelist of some sort and his sisters and winds
• 12:59
  up finding that she
• 13:00
  has an inheritance so that she can be independent and okay
• 13:07
  fastest way around this
• 13:09
  this young man eventually they become very close and he wants
• 13:13
  to marry her and take
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: her to be a missionary and she rejects him and then
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: she's like,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I have to find out,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: whether,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: whatever happened to Mr.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Rochester,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: her original love,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: and goes to find out.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: But through all that, as a young person...
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: who was immersed in purity culture.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: The first time I read it,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: it was all very much like,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: she saves herself and she holds out for her true love.
• 13:47
  And then I read it again later and I was like,
• 13:49
  oh no,
• 13:49
  that's not what she's saying at all.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about a woman standing up for herself and
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I read it a third time and saw a whole different layer to that.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I, yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a transformation.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could read you the underlines and I wish I could,
• 14:13
  I like wish I had a copy that I read 20 years ago and to see
• 14:17
  what I underlined then
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: it would be entertaining.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: That would be entertaining.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to try to shoehorn in your other,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: your,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: your sixth,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: you,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: the other book that you want to talk about in addition to Jane Eyre?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: White Sargasso Sea.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's, um,
• 14:35
  basically another novel that came out in the 80s that was like
• 14:40
  uh we called we were
• 14:41
  joking that it's kind of like fan fiction but it's a like what
• 14:43
  it's the story of
• 14:44
  the the mad woman in the attic yeah um the wide sargasso sea
• 14:49
  and uh it is not a fun
• 14:52
  novel and it is not it's difficult and sad but it like
• 14:56
  basically explores the um
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: the what if the life of that yeah of the the
• 15:05
  mr rochester's life because he was you know went to the west
• 15:09
  indies and was
• 15:09
  supposedly hooked up with um his like the relatives like set
• 15:14
  him up with this woman
• 15:15
  who had a fortune and that they were going to be able to marry
• 15:18
  because he was a
• 15:19
  second son and wasn't going to be able to inherit his family's
• 15:22
  wealth um and the
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: whole book basically just shows that how um
• 15:31
  colonialism the colonialism and patriarchy like like the
• 15:34
  effects of those two
• 15:35
  institutions on these people and how it just keeps them from
• 15:38
  being free or happy
• 15:41
  and um the real dark undersides of both of those institutions
• 15:47
  so it's a great read
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: but not very happy
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: It is fan fiction, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's the origin story of those two characters, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, imagined.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, imagined, yes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Written by someone who's not the original author, yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, number three, Alive, the Daft Punk album.
• 16:11
  How old are you,
• 16:12
  where are you in life and geographically when you're turned on
• 16:18
  to Daft Punk?
• 16:20
  I first became aware of Daft Punk I remember seeing the around
• 16:25
  the world video in
• 16:26
  high school and just not knowing what to make of it and like I
• 16:31
  think it's Spike
• 16:32
  Jonze and like the skeletons dancing up the pyramid and down
• 16:37
  and like at a time
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: where like what like what the rest of MTV looked like at the time like
• 16:45
  what even was that you know but I also have I realized I have
• 16:49
  also have kind of a
• 16:50
  memory of at the time I was homeschooled and I was playing on a
• 16:56
  homeschool
• 16:56
  basketball oh no I was playing on a basketball team at the
• 16:58
  local like little
• 16:59
  Christian school and we had this awesome coach who I mean it
• 17:05
  was just this tiny
• 17:05
  little team and so ragtag and I have this memory of her she was
• 17:10
  awesome but
• 17:12
  I have a memory of that song with interlaced with her and I
• 17:16
  have no idea what happened.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, does she play it?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Does somebody like, where did I hear this?
• 17:20
  Like somehow I think she must've like turned it on at a
• 17:23
  practice or a game or
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: something like that.
• 17:25
  Cause for some reason in my mind it's enmeshed with her and I
• 17:28
  have no idea why,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: but I remember being like,
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: what is this?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I like this.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then in college downloading Napster and like,
• 17:38
  and like diving into the the their early albums and being like
• 17:43
  oh what is this
• 17:45
  dance music this is awesome um and then so as a fan was a fan
• 17:51
  then that was kind of
• 17:52
  revelatory but then uh definitely when that album alive came
• 17:59
  out maybe it's obvious
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: from my story but uh i was not in
• 18:06
  the Christian purity culture anymore and I was in a clubbing
• 18:10
  phase in Denver like
• 18:14
  really enjoyed going to shows and specifically electronica and
• 18:21
  techno and like
• 18:24
  dancing and it was like the timing of a live coming out was
• 18:30
  right in the middle of
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: that and so there was a lot of listening to that very loud
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is there some,
• 18:38
  isn't there some story about a dishwasher or a cook at the
• 18:41
  restaurant you worked at
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: wanting to listen to?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: and that was later on actually,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that's the,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that speaks to,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: so that was at the time it came out.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 18:54
  I was working at a magazine in Boulder and commuting and going
• 18:58
  to a lot of spending
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of time at clubs in Denver and going to shows and that like,
• 19:05
  my magazine job they like laid off a bunch of people in 2008
• 19:09
  and I wound up working
• 19:11
  at a restaurant for a few years where you and I met eventually
• 19:14
  oh that's right yeah
• 19:17
  you remember that and one of the guys who worked in the kitchen
• 19:24
  from he was
• 19:25
  Honduran and didn't speak a ton of English but like but was you
• 19:32
  know we could
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: communicate a little bit and
• 19:35
  they're like my main memory of interacting with him was that
• 19:39
  one more time was his
• 19:40
  favorite favorite song and like he would repeat play it on
• 19:44
  repeat and whoever was
• 19:46
  like whatever who wish because usually it was like who was
• 19:49
  chefing that night or
• 19:50
  doing expo was the person with the back of the house music you
• 19:53
  know and like I can
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: hear Yvonne's voice in my mind going
• 19:59
  one more time like yelling through the window out to the expo
• 20:03
  like one more time
• 20:05
  one more time and it would go over and he'd be like one more
• 20:08
  time um and that was
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: more like probably 2000 like 10.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: so are they like playing it on an ipod wired into a okay yeah
• 20:19
  yeah somebody's ipod in the back like in the little like
• 20:23
  portable speaker in the
• 20:24
  expo window you know but but yeah so that's i guess that's to
• 20:29
  say like it was like
• 20:30
  multiple years later you know like i listened to it a lot when
• 20:32
  it came out and it
• 20:33
  was like earth shattering because it just it has it's like the
• 20:37
  perfect the way i
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: think of that album is like
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like designed exactly for the brain.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it was like pre algorithm algorithm, musical algorithm.
• 20:46
  It's like as soon as you're like into a beat or into the like
• 20:50
  feeling it and then
• 20:51
  like as soon as you like can have some change of interest or
• 20:55
  like are craving
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: something else,
• 20:56
  it's like teasing you into it and then raising you up and like
• 21:00
  exploding that and
• 21:01
  like it's just these crescendos and decrescendos that are like
• 21:05
  designed exactly
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: perfectly for human consumption.
• 21:09
  to me or maybe just mine but uh yeah one more time very meta is
• 21:15
  like asking you to
• 21:16
  play it again and again and again just in the chorus that is
• 21:19
  repeated throughout
• 21:20
  the song too right yeah it was yeah it was funny where does
• 21:26
  that take you now when
• 21:27
  you when you listen to the album now i've listened to it a fair
• 21:36
  amount whenever
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: i've run on treadmills
• 21:40
  i feel like that's not very exciting but because of that
• 21:43
  because it's like it just
• 21:45
  will not let you be bored it's like as soon as you're into into
• 21:48
  it and enjoying it
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: it's like oh then into the next thing you know um
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry, that's not actually very exciting.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's a new memory from your,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: from your album that you listened to when you were young and cool.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's, now it's become a, I don't think I was cool.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was young and dumb,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: but I've taken that album because,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: because it's for its function is that it,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: like it just,
• 22:13
  the adrenaline and the excitement of it and the like consistent
• 22:17
  interest is like
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: perfect for running and,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: or cycling like,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 22:24
  spinning and things like that so i've logged some spin bike and
• 22:29
  treadmill miles
• 22:30
  over the years on that and run fast and run like way faster
• 22:34
  because it gets you
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: excited oh okay maybe i should try it okay number four
• 22:44
  You're going to have to probably describe these on the list
• 22:47
  just as blue paintings
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: by Mark Rothko plus the color field painters in general.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe,
• 22:53
  maybe you should describe the blue paintings by Rothko first to
• 22:59
  just people who
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: don't have them just like called up in their memory,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: such as myself.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of assume most people know what a Rothko looks like,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: but if you never have there,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: the one that I'm talking about is a large
• 23:15
  canvas like probably taller than a person that is a giant
• 23:21
  rectangle of royal blue
• 23:25
  with a smaller rectangle of a deeper blue in it and it's just
• 23:30
  if you look closely
• 23:31
  it's just like layers and layers of paint to give a depth of
• 23:36
  this color multiple
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: shades of blue
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if I've ever seen another one in person,
• 23:45
  but I can tell you the story of the first one I saw in person
• 23:48
  because that's why I
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: don't like,
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would have liked,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: like I've liked other art and like,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: like other art.
• 23:57
  And I don't know if I would even say that like Rothko's blue
• 24:00
  paintings are my
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: favorite art,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: but they are the most impactful,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: like this particular painting,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: in about in during the phase when I was working as a magazine editor,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: got sent to New York for a work trip and,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: went a couple of days early to spend a couple of days,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: like a long weekend and took my boyfriend at the time with me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I had never been to New York at, at that time ever before.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And was like, well, you can imagine totally blown away, but very excited.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we like, I, I had a magazine editor job, but like very low paying.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have,
• 24:41
  have a lot of money and we like rolled in like landed in
• 24:45
  LaGuardia got on the bus
• 24:46
  from LaGuardia into Manhattan and like knew that it was a free
• 24:51
  day I think it was a
• 24:52
  Friday then a free day at the MoMA and we're like trying like
• 24:56
  trucking over to get
• 24:57
  there on time in time to look at some art for free and had our
• 25:02
  backpacks you know
• 25:03
  like I was not carrying a suitcase or whatever it was like I
• 25:06
  think it was a
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: climbing pack actually stuffed with my very professional
• 25:10
  clothes and in the backpack and and had to like check the packs
• 25:14
  at the MoMA and and
• 25:16
  then wandered around and like you know there's all sorts of
• 25:21
  interesting stuff but I
• 25:23
  just remember walking up to this one and like taking a minute
• 25:25
  and just feeling
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: tears like feeling my body come to this like have this emotional wave of
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: wanting to cry and not having any like real reason why,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: but having this visceral like feeling in my body of,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: of emotion.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure if it was like,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: maybe it was,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it was closer to sadness than happiness,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: but just sensation,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: and I was like,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what this painting means,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: but it gives me these feelings.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then looking at it later, like,
• 26:04
  learning a little bit more about Rothko,
• 26:05
  that that was literally what he intended.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't painting for people to think about the colors just themselves.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: He was literally trying to express the basic human emotions.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: At the time,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: my boyfriend at the time was a poet,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: an MFA,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: who was his group of friends who we spent a lot of time with.
• 26:31
  you know we're all talking about literary criticism all the
• 26:33
  time and like Derrida
• 26:36
  this and like Nietzsche that and like stuff that I you know I
• 26:41
  hadn't read or like
• 26:42
  struggled to understand and and felt ignorant about often which
• 26:49
  you know that's
• 26:49
  fine like I'm not an MFA but like I think sometimes felt like I
• 26:55
  didn't understand a
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: lot of art or
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or some of it maybe wasn't for me.
• 27:02
  And it was really interesting to look at this painting and just
• 27:05
  have a response to
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: it and then realize later,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: that actually was the artist's intent to have that response.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And over the course of the next few years,
• 27:15
  they had an incredible exhibit at the Denver Art Museum a while
• 27:20
  after that of color
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: field painters,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: which that's what Rothko is.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the field of...
• 27:29
  background I don't know I don't know the proper art terminology
• 27:33
  for it but like big
• 27:35
  big fields of color basically instead of and they're
• 27:38
  abstracting impressionism I
• 27:40
  think or expressionism but they're not like it's not an object
• 27:45
  you know it's not
• 27:48
  not like a picture or realism in any way and and I had a
• 27:52
  similar experience with
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: another painting there and that was a
• 27:56
  enormous and orange and i mean huge like the size of a large
• 28:02
  room's wall at least
• 28:04
  like it was enormous painting and having a similar just like a
• 28:08
  a wave of like
• 28:10
  warmth and and happiness and like um like almost like not womb
• 28:18
  like is like too
• 28:19
  extreme but like just a different like real real bodily emotion
• 28:23
  to it and uh
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: and enjoyed that.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt really good learning,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: learning about these painters and what they wanted to express later on.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that much.
• 28:34
  I'm not like,
• 28:34
  I'm like a very shallow,
• 28:37
  you know,
• 28:37
  uh,
• 28:39
  like I just scratched the surface of it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no art historian.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't study it really,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 28:44
  it felt really good to have an experience with art that like I
• 28:47
  could understand and
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: really like,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: and feel like what I was getting was legitimate,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:56
  I have more story I could tell about that,
• 28:58
  but I don't know if we have time.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I actually, so this is in related, uh, in related news.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love the, um, friends of a library sale at our library.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Always has interesting books that I aren't necessarily at the bookstore.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I got this book, uh, ninth street women, which is also enormous.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Lee Krasner,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Elaine de Kooning,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Grace Hartigan,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Joan Mitchell,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: and Helen Frankenthaler,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: five painters,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: and the movement that changed modern art.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And A, the writer, the writing is so good.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm gonna have to read this like,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: 800 page book,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: because it's just so good.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: But in the very beginning, she's talking about the very beginning of
• 29:45
  abstract painting in New York and how it was like beginning to
• 29:49
  be its own thing
• 29:50
  separate from like Paris used to be the center of the art world
• 29:54
  and but these
• 29:56
  abstract artists were not getting taken care of taking
• 29:59
  seriously by gallery owners
• 30:02
  in New York and so they decided to mount their own show and to
• 30:06
  like I don't even
• 30:08
  know how many it was a huge show with tons of artists in it and
• 30:11
  they like asked
• 30:15
  the famous art critic to like jury it and decide who was going
• 30:18
  to be in it.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then like put it all together themselves in this,
• 30:22
  in this building that was about to be condemned and about to be
• 30:25
  torn down.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, let me see if I can find this spot here.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: She,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: so,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: this,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: one of the artists,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: so they,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: the artists would man the door themselves during the,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: during this exhibit and let,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: like it was,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: and it was free.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: This one, um,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: artist.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: said,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: who was there,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: said,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: one quiet evening while he was guarding the exhibition,
• 30:53
  an elderly black woman appeared at the door and asked if she
• 30:55
  could come in.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, come in, Al Capley said with his heavily accented English.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: He was German.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: How much is it?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: She asked timidly.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's no cost.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't cost anything.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, come in and stay as long as you'd like.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Says the woman was only about 64 or 65,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: but looked much older,
• 31:12
  no doubt due to the hard work and long hours in those days of
• 31:15
  segregation,
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: when only one
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: employment available to her would have been some sort of manual labor.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this artist is saying,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:23
  she had this wonder in her eyes and a very sensitive face and
• 31:28
  he wanted to follow
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: her around and see like what interested her in the show.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that after studying one particular work for some time,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: she said,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: the artist who did this must have known a great deal.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he asked if she went
• 31:41
  to exhibits often and she goes I never do do you go to the art
• 31:45
  museums and she says
• 31:46
  no do you have paintings in your home no she but she had cut
• 31:51
  out photos from
• 31:51
  magazines on the walls and basically she's saying it's such a
• 31:57
  beautiful show so
• 31:58
  many shapes and so much space and she went um she went home and
• 32:02
  got her family and
• 32:02
  brought them all back to see it and like brought her her
• 32:05
  friends and and I think um
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: the art this artist was saying like
• 32:12
  that this art shouldn't have anything to do with education and
• 32:15
  that like you don't
• 32:16
  should not have to be like remarkable in this like you know
• 32:20
  upper echelon education
• 32:22
  wise to understand it you know and and that that was that felt
• 32:26
  really important to
• 32:27
  him so reading that right now like kind of I guess made me feel
• 32:34
  reassured and like
• 32:35
  my appreciation you know like basically you should like what
• 32:39
  you like and like
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sure,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: art criticism and like saying something and having a message,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: that's all important and great,
• 32:47
  but it's like having something that moves you and that you like
• 32:52
  is ultimately to me
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: the most important thing.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's long winded.
• 32:59
  I feel like Rothko's the type of art that people would walk in
• 33:03
  and be like,
• 33:03
  I could do that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like the most commonly,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: or color filled painters,
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: maybe like my eight year old could do that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he didn't.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, one left, and it is a movie called 20th Century Women.
• 33:24
  Can you give us a little sort of plot synopsis or summary of
• 33:29
  what the movie's about?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: So this was the most recent in my life.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it came out in 2016.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: The director is Mike Mills.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the plot is,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's about,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: so Annette Bening plays a 50-something,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think she's like a 55-year-old mom of a 15-year-old son,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: like teenage son.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And she's raising him as a single mom,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: and they live in this incredible old house that she's having fixed up.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so she has tenants,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: and her tenants are played by Billy Crudup,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Greta Gerwig,
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: and oh my gosh,
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember the other actress's name.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Dakota Fanning?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: She's the teenage friend of her son.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's the next door neighbor.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Greta Gerwig and Billy Crudup play the tenants.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: As an older mom of a teenage boy,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: she's having trouble connecting with them and is worried about them.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: She asks Billy Crudup and Greta Gerwig and Dakota Fanning to help
• 34:39
  raise him you know and like support him and and in like kind of
• 34:44
  backfires in ways
• 34:45
  that surprise her and he's like so like Greta Gerwig plays this
• 34:51
  eccentric kind of
• 34:52
  punk rock artist photographer and Billy Crudup is like mechanic
• 34:57
  who works with his
• 34:58
  hands and is a like ceramic artist too and then um Dakota
• 35:03
  Fanning is the like
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: teenage
• 35:06
  neighbor who of course the son has a crush on and like um they
• 35:13
  all you know kind of
• 35:14
  try to help them in their own semi misguided ways you know and
• 35:17
  then there's like
• 35:18
  the generational differences between them all kind of play out
• 35:22
  in these funny ways
• 35:23
  and um music is really central to the plot to like the
• 35:28
  different you know there's
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: just
• 35:31
  trying like the different generations trying to understand each
• 35:33
  other you know the
• 35:34
  son also trying to understand his mom and being frustrated by
• 35:37
  her like kind of
• 35:39
  rejection of him understanding her like and uh and part of uh
• 35:46
  part of the whole
• 35:47
  story is like these the younger generation embracing feminism
• 35:52
  and the mom being
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: kind of like
• 35:56
  flummoxed by by some of it and and then the land and the punk
• 36:00
  rock music and trying
• 36:01
  to understand it you know and yeah there's complications ensue
• 36:07
  hilarity ensues yeah
• 36:08
  so you first watched this movie several years before you
• 36:13
  decided to become a mom is
• 36:14
  that correct yeah i didn't know i didn't know if i wanted to be
• 36:18
  a mom so yeah and
• 36:19
  then since then i've had a son and it's like brings on of
• 36:22
  course new much new
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: many new angles, you know?
• 36:26
  And that's like some of my favorite line,
• 36:28
  definitely some of my favorite lines in it.
• 36:30
  Like they were beforehand,
• 36:31
  but they have taken on new meaning now,
• 36:34
  you know?
• 36:36
  If there's a pie chart of things that caused you to want to
• 36:42
  become a parent,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: how big of the slice of the pie chart is the movie 20th Century Women?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's an interesting question.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: The funny thing is that,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Annette Bening,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't relate with her so much as a mom,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: except that I covet her house.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: you should watch the movie just for the house that she was in,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: and her aesthetic is,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: it's beautiful.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: The colors,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: the paint colors,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: and the furniture,
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: it is,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's worth watching just for the aesthetics,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: and the clothes,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's set in 1979,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: so,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 37:22
  uh yeah so it's like i would not say that annette benning as a
• 37:27
  mom is my like she's
• 37:29
  an amazing character in that movie and she's you can see her
• 37:35
  shakespearean
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: training as an actor coming out and like the expressions and like little
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: expressions in her face as she's having emotions are awesome.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I had read,
• 37:44
  I think it was Annette Bening who said that she's like refused
• 37:48
  to ever have any
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: work done on her face because she's like,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an actor.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is like, I want people to see emotion, you know?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, that's awesome.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: It works because,
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: all these little things you see her like experience,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: the feelings that she's having.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there are some lines that,
• 38:07
  there's a line where um Greta Gerwig's character who is
• 38:11
  probably in her young 20s I
• 38:13
  think in the movie asking she's she's diagnosed with or she's
• 38:20
  recovering from
• 38:22
  cervical cancer in the film and she asked she's afraid that she
• 38:26
  might not be able
• 38:26
  to have kids and she asks Annette Bening's character um like
• 38:30
  well was having your
• 38:31
  son like the biggest thing that ever happened to you and um and
• 38:35
  she was like yeah I
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: don't
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I suppose it was.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And basically you just love them so much you're just pretty much screwed.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think of that line very often.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: It feels very, it's pretty much true.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: What's the other one where I think the son asks her if she's happy?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Asking yourself if you're happy is a real,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: what does she say,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: is a real quick way of feeling depressed.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And just, you know, he thinks he's reading.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So Greta Gerwig's character gives the teenage boy like our bodies,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: ourselves,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: and other these like kind of.
• 39:17
  feminist literature at the time and he's eating it up and he's
• 39:20
  trying to understand
• 39:21
  the world and he's like developing his worldview and like
• 39:24
  applying this lens to his
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: friend next door and to his mom,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: and he reads his essay to his mom about like,
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't know who wrote the essay,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:35
  a middle-aged woman's laments about feeling like she's finally
• 39:40
  coming into her
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: prime,
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: but now is disregarded by society,
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: and his mom going like,
• 39:46
  oh so you think you understand me because you read this essay
• 39:49
  and he's like he's
• 39:50
  trying to you know he's literally trying you know it's
• 39:53
  complicated because and the
• 39:54
  mom is just she just shuts him down and like it's uh oh my
• 40:00
  goodness there's so many
• 40:01
  so many things i could keep going and going and going about
• 40:04
  this and like i don't
• 40:06
  want to give away like one of the funniest scenes i don't want
• 40:08
  to give away but but
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: lots of them have to do with uh female bodily um
• 40:16
  functions why do you think it's um why do you think it's such a
• 40:24
  good movie for
• 40:25
  everybody to watch not just people who um are raising kids or
• 40:31
  have raised kids or
• 40:37
  my first answer is because it's just hilarious like you know
• 40:42
  you don't have to have
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: kids that's like you know
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's just the characters are just funny,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Billy Crudup like totally steals this scene a couple of times,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: definitely one time.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: and that was the,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: also the movie that probably really either cemented,
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: it really started or cemented my like huge fangirling of Greta Gerwig.
• 41:05
  Like,
• 41:06
  um,
• 41:08
  I have like,
• 41:08
  like just about everything like she's done that I've ever seen.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a huge, huge fan.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: like it has,
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think Mike Mills wrote it and directed it in the like,
• 41:21
  as kind of an ode loosely based on his own mom and the idea of
• 41:26
  trying to understand
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: your parents,
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: like trying to,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: and like the kind of complications of between generations,
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 41:34
  And I think anybody,
• 41:36
  like everybody has parents and that's like,
• 41:39
  like he really captures
• 41:44
  the like joys of having those connections and then also the
• 41:49
  like frustrations and
• 41:50
  the humor and like so it's like it's family life but it's not
• 41:54
  yeah it's not just
• 41:55
  about parenting and you know uh I don't also just don't think
• 42:01
  I'd ever seen a film
• 42:03
  that talked so frankly about women's lives you know and in such
• 42:09
  a way that is just
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: there's so many hilarious moments so
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would say you should watch it because it's funny.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have watched it.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Watch it for the house and watch it for the humor.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the music.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:28
  Greta Gerwig went on to do some other things as I remember
• 42:31
  after that movie.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: A few other people did.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of my favorite scenes,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: this is not Greta Gerwig related,
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like you,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would be remiss not to talk about the music in the movie though.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of my favorite scenes, let's see.
• 42:47
  So the teenage boy is off having his night,
• 42:51
  like off on the town or whatever.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And with Greta Gerwig's character, I think.
• 42:58
  And the mom and the tenant,
• 43:01
  Billy Crudup,
• 43:01
  are hanging out,
• 43:03
  talking back at home.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they're talking about music.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I'm trying to understand.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what my son listens to.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they're in, I think they're in Greta Gerwig's character's room.
• 43:17
  and they put on black flag i think it is and and or maybe it's
• 43:23
  the raincoats um and
• 43:25
  i think it's somebody i think it's somebody lesser known than
• 43:27
  black flag yeah i
• 43:29
  think it might be the raincoats actually or maybe susie and the
• 43:31
  banshees i'm not
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: sure but it's like something loud yeah and um and
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I just don't get this.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do they know this is bad?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, well, what about this?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they put on talking heads.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, oh, this is more like it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she and Billy Crudup are dancing to talking heads.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, OK, maybe I get this.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: But just that classic intergenerational, like, what is this noise?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: But they do it so well, and it's pretty fun.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there's a line where they say something like,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: so they know they're not very good at playing their instruments,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: but that doesn't matter or something like that.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's Greta Gerwig is explaining.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, because they have passion and that's more interesting.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's more important.
• 44:24
  Like she's like,
• 44:26
  but they're not very good,
• 44:28
  but they know they're not very good.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:32
  It's like a theme of this conversation with the not knowing
• 44:36
  much about art,
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: but being the meaning for Rothko.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this was fun.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for being my second podcast guest.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was a tough ask.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know if you were going to say yes or not.
• 44:52
  But one of us needs to go pick up our son from preschool,
• 44:55
  so we should probably close it off.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for having me.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: This was great.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.