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Nikil Saval: Writer, Editor, Community Organizer · philly has heART

0:15
This is Robert Marsh, and you're listening to
0:17
Philly Has Hard Podcast. In this podcast, we
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sit down with artists, gallerists, educators,
0:22
curators, and other creatives who comprise the
0:25
Philadelphia art world to discuss upcoming performances,
0:28
exhibits, and other events and initiatives that
0:30
are not to be missed. The art scene in Philadelphia
0:33
is so rich that it can seem daunting. Consider
0:36
this your weekend cultural recommendation. With
0:40
me always is my producer, Lucinda Daggerlin.
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Bonjour! And today we have State Senator Saval.
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We're so happy to have you today. Thank you.
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It's such a pleasure to be here. So most people
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know you as State Senator Safal. We guess that
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most people do not know that you have your Ph
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.D. in English Literature. We have a two -parter
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question here. First, what drove you to your
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doctorate? And second, what is the Ph .D. in
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English Literature to community activists and
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leader pipeline -like? Well, it's the classic
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pipeline. I'm surprised at the question. So,
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thank you. Again, it's a pleasure to be here.
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I always wanted to get a PhD insofar as I knew
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there was such a thing to do. I mean, I should
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put it this way. I always wanted to be a writer.
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And ever since I knew that writing was a profession,
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I loved books since I could read, and I wanted
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to write them. And once I learned that you could
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study books and... have that as your job. I thought,
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well, I'll do that and also write them. And so
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I was very, very interested in studying literature.
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My older brother, it was a big influence on me.
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also got a PhD in English literature, so that
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was also a driver in that sense. The competition
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is real. He was. He's eight years older. It did
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feel like it was, you know, I was just constantly
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being educated and taught in this great way by
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him, and that's still true. He's still the biggest
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influence on my life. I studied English at Columbia
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where I went to undergrad. Took two years off.
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I'm putting off in quotation marks because I
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worked. I worked in book publishing. And after
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two years of doing that, I was ready to go to
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graduate school. And I went to Stanford for graduate
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school. I really wanted to go there because there
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were a few professors I wanted to work with.
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Well, graduate programs are not known for being
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munificent in the amounts of support that they
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give to students. And they're also known for
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exploiting those students. There was a little
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bit of that, but there was a lot of support and
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ability to do research and think. So that was
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the idea. I always wanted to do it. Can I ask
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you a sidebar question? Sure. Have you ever seen
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the movie Orange County? No. Okay, let me take
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you back. 2002. Yeah. Con Hanks, Tom Hanks' son.
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Absolutely. Plays a high school senior about
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to graduate, and his dream is to go to Stanford
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to study creative writing. And by accident, his...
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High school recommendations never make it in.
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The high school counselor is played by Lily Tomlin,
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I think. Okay. And he realizes through a series
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of hijinks and going up there, and his brother
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is played by Jack Black, and Jack Black gives
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the head of admissions, I think, a hit of acid
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instead of, like, aspirin. He realizes that he
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doesn't have to go to Stanford. He just needs
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to be around the people that inspire him to write.
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Okay. So actually, I had just the same experience.
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And so it was, I did come into Stanford. I mean,
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I had a lot of great experiences and I have great
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colleagues from there. But I did come out of
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it not wanting to go into academia. I did have
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that recognition that. It wasn't necessary to
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become a professor, to be a writer, although
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I learned a lot and I became a nonfiction writer.
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I wrote some journalistic pieces when I was in
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graduate school. I was editing a literary magazine
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called N Plus One, which is based in New York,
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but I was doing it remotely. And so, you know,
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I feel like I learned a lot of skills and techniques
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and I got to read a ton of stuff. I mean, stacks
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and stacks of books. It was, in that sense, amazing.
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But I didn't need it to be professionalized in
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the way that school does. And so I didn't take
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any acid. Even though there was lots of acid
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to be had in Northern California. So back to
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the second part of the question. How did you
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get from the PhD in writing and editing a literary
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magazine to community activist? So when I was
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in college, actually the second week I was in
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college, the 9 -11 attacks took place. And I
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was in New York. So it was very proximate. And
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the attacks were devastating. Combined with what
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I felt was the rush to war by the United States
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in Afghanistan and Iraq, I was deeply shocked.
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And as someone who always had a very idealized
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view, I think, of writing and literature, I was
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sort of shocked into politics, I would say. And
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it took a little while to really know what that
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meant. But I protested the war. I tried to figure
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out how to transform that feeling I had of being
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shocked and sort of horrified by the war into
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some kind of organized activity, into really
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building political power. And so by the time
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I got to graduate school, I had a few kind of
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key experiences. One is I spent a summer in Bolivia.
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I had language study money and I studied Spanish,
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which I really could have done in a lot of different
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countries. And I didn't really didn't have to
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be Bolivia, but I chose Bolivia. I mean, I could
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have stayed in San Francisco, frankly, but I
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chose Bolivia. because it was going through this
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major political transformation under Evo Morales,
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the first indigenous president. So there I really
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started to see what it was like to have labor
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unions participate in politics and to have social
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movements really change a country. And I came
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back to the United States after that summer and
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wrote to a local labor union called Unite Here,
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which represents hospitality workers, and asked
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if I could volunteer. And they said, we've never
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done that. Sure, I'm in the office. So I was
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an intern of sorts, but really it meant that
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I was being trained as an organizer. And so twice
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a week I'd go into their office and help with
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hotel workers who were trying to organize their
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hotels. And it changed my life, I thought, in
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part because I was suddenly part of this broad
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multiracial working class movement that built
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real power in a very expensive, unequal city
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and region. And I moved to Philadelphia in 2011,
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and my now wife went to graduate school at Penn
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for preservation. I volunteered with Unite Here
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here as well. And they also represent workers
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in the school district of Philadelphia. So it's
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brought into a lot of politics around schools
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and public schools and public education. In 2016,
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I volunteered for the Bernie Sanders campaign.
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And, you know, I think that was the flip side.
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Well, I had the labor union experience that I
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had also seen in Bolivia. And with Bernie Sanders,
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I felt like I saw a presidential candidate who
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was kind of like one of these. Latin American
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figures who came from social movements, who was
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an organizer, was a socialist. And I thought
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I didn't know something like that was possible,
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or let alone that someone like that could actually
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garner any support anywhere. And so I helped
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organize a progressive organization. I helped
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create a progressive organization called Reclaim
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Philadelphia. We elected candidates to local
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office, sort of in that mold of people who want
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to bring popular pressure and power into office
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and I ran for local democratic party office I
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became a local party boss which a board leader
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which I was never you know again not what I was
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planning when I wanted when I got my PhD in modernism
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and you know I was recruited to run basically
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for office in 2020 and so anyway that I sort
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of got ahead of myself here and to talk a little
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bit about But that was the trajectory. So I felt
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like I was following an initial impulse. You
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know, a lot happened in that time, right? The
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global financial crisis, the Occupy movement,
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Black Lives Matter, Me Too, Bernie Sanders, Donald
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Trump, COVID -19. I mean, it's been a convulsive
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20 years. Pivoting? Pivoting a little. Understandably.
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Yes. You wrote about architecture and design
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for publications like The New Yorker and The
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New York Times, as well as deep diving into topics
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like architecture and design of offices and industrial
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design. These days, you're on the Urban Affairs
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and Housing Committee. Coincidence that the built
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environment is a common thread? Not a coincidence.
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This is a great question. When I was in college,
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I started an urban studies magazine with a friend.
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It was never anything I ever had any expertise
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in, I want to say. I probably know a little bit
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more about it now, but it was just an interest
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and a passion. In part, when I was young, I had
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moved to New York. I had this incredible urban
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college experience and wanted to understand it
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and reflect on it. And, you know, over time,
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just continue to read and study and just be fascinated
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by cities and all the politics that go into them.
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And as you mentioned, you pointed out, I wrote
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about these topics. But one thing that came from
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writing about a lot of these issues was just
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a real familiarity with lots of ideas and the
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ferment that was taking place, you know, in particular
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about planning and cities generally. but especially
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about housing. And the further I kind of got
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along in my career as a writer, the more salient
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the idea that we were enduring a very deep housing
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crisis became. And there were lots of different
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ways that people were thinking about it. And
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when I even considered running for office, one
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of the attractions to me was that I could kind
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of... realize some of these ideas or help put
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into practice some of the things that I've been
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writing about. The other thing I would say is
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that training both as a magazine editor and a
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freelance journalist, mostly while it brought
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me into some level of familiarity with all these
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ideas and thinking around housing, around cities
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and architecture and design, by no means was
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I ever an expert. helped me find experts. Like
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that became my job. It helped me ask questions.
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It helped me develop curiosity around the issues
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that mattered. And those things I think still
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serve me well in this role that, you know, I
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still am not an expert. I know a little bit more,
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but mostly because people are teaching me constantly
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and I've tried to find the people to teach me.
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And so there's a continuity, I would say, between
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that part of my life and this part. Real quick,
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you know who else wasn't an quote -unquote expert?
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Jane Jacobs. And she wrote, do you know who Jane
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Jacobs is? She wrote The Death and Life of American
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Cities. And when you go to architecture school
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or urban design or urban planning, that is the
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Bible. You read that, one of the first things.
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I have my master's degree in historic preservation.
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I already talked to your wife about it. But it's
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a great point. I mean, the thing that's amazing
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about Jacobs is she also, by not being an expert,
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didn't necessarily internalize a lot of the norms
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or ideologies of the field. And so she was able
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to question a lot of what was taking place. And
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by no means comparing myself to Jacobs, but I
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would say that one of the things that I tried
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to do when I was writing about architecture and
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design was to write for someone like myself who
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wasn't. an expert but who was fascinated of which
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there are so many of us right we're just who
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walk around Philly or anywhere and just wonder,
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right? And like, how did this come to be? But
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while also not trying to simply reproduce what
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is the received idea in architecture school.
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What are you most excited for in terms of the
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semi -quincentennial this summer, particularly
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through the lens of art? Is there a certain program
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or exhibition that cannot miss for you? I think
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this The semi -quincentennial is in many ways
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a pretext. It's a pretext for people to, because
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in some ways it's just artificial. It's just
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250 years, why is that different from 249, 251?
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It's a pretext. And there's a friend of mine
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who's a great writer about Philly and a great
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writer generally, Nathaniel Popkin, who does
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a lot of work and writing about the city. He
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helped start Hidden City, Philadelphia. He wrote
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a novel about the bicentennial. And I think the
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bicentennial in 1976 is seen as kind of like
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a failure in some ways or a missed opportunity.
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And he has always said that it was actually like
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an incredibly open time and a lot of things were
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up for discussion or question in 1976. And, you
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know, yeah, the 70s, right? It was a time of
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great ferment. The country was sort of going
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in multiple different directions at once. And
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it was right after Watergate. It was right after
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Vietnam. I mean, I think there were lots of things
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that were up for discussion, at the very least.
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And, you know, maybe we're in a similar moment
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right now, politically, socially. And I'm looking
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forward to institutions and people, you know,
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who take advantage of that. And I've already
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seen one exhibit that I recommend to everyone
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that I want to go back to. That's at the Academy
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of Sciences. That's called Botany of Nations,
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which is about the Lewis and Clark expedition
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and core of discovery. But one thing that it
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highlights is the role of indigenous knowledge
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in, one, helping that expedition to take place
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at all. But also... They bring in contemporary
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botanists and experts from indigenous peoples
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in the areas where Lewis and Clark went to try
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to tell stories about some of the same plants
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and flowers that Meriwether Lewis discovered.
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And so they'll have the kind of pressing from...
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Lewis's journal but then have the storytelling
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from a member of one of the indigenous tribes
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in in the region that brings this to the present
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and also what is the indigenous relationship
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over time so that's very cool and I think Lewis
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and Clark is such a big part of american identity
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in some ways and so it's a way of reshaping our
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approach to that and so that's that's really
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cool i mean there are things that i'm excited
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to see there's there's gonna be a huge city -wide
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arts festival that art philly is running there's
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a new exhibit at the clay studio roberto lugo
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radical americana right yeah exactly yeah and
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there's that exactly so You know, I've yet to
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see all these, right? And so I think there's
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a lot happening. And frankly, I think probably
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there will be things that are surprising or less
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heralded that show up and become important. I
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mean, I'm going to see on Wednesday, I don't
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even know if you could call this part of the
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250th, but the playwright James Imes is... I
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saw it last night. Oh, you saw it? Which one?
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I saw Wilderness Generation. Oh, I'm going on
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Wednesday. Okay. Well, both me and my husband
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laughed and I cried. I left crying, but it was
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so good. That's awesome. Yeah. I actually didn't
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see the Wilma, the Miss Martha. Miss Martha Washington.
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Yeah. And so that feels like part of, I mean,
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the fact that we have three plays by James Adams,
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you know, showing up in Philly theaters, that's.
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I don't know if you can call it a 250 a thing,
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but it seems like a celebration, a concert celebration.
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Who will take advantage of this moment where
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we can represent the nation differently? Senators
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of all, where can our audience find you in your
17:21
office? Absolutely. So we have two offices in
17:25
Philadelphia. One is at 6th and Washington, 1107
17:28
South 6th Street. That's our main office, and
17:32
that's open five days a week. We have a smaller
17:36
office in Kensington, 1434 Germantown Avenue,
17:40
which is open three days a week, Monday, Tuesday,
17:42
Wednesday. You can call us, 267 -668 -3550. You
17:47
can follow. Me in our office online. The handle
17:50
is at Senator Saval for Instagram, Twitter, Blue
17:55
Sky, etc. I live in Philly. You might just see
17:58
me around. I bike most places when the weather's
18:01
permitting. And so say hi. Thank you so much
18:04
for your time today. And we'll be right back
18:06
with rapid fire questions. And we're back with
18:10
rapid fire questions. Favorite Philadelphia mural?
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I don't know, there's so many good ones to choose
18:16
from. I would say there's a really good one of
18:20
Dr. J. I actually am trying to remember where
18:23
it is. I always feel like I always see it coming
18:25
in on the train. And he's serious and he's got
18:29
this incredible suit. It's not one of the large,
18:33
deeply populated ones, but there's just something
18:36
about the gravitas of this. excellent basketball
18:40
player. I just am like that I always feel welcome
18:43
and I need to and I see it again. Cheese steaks
18:46
with whiz or without? I'm vegan. So I do not
18:51
There are so many of the artists that we have
18:53
on that are like no. Can't do it. Don't do it.
18:56
Won't do it. I like the I mean I like mushrooms.
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Okay. Alright. But it's usually yeah. Philadelphia
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art scene in one word. Disinvested. What is your
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favorite art museum outside of Philadelphia?
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I love the Huntington Museum in Los Angeles.
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I mean, I can't separate it from the gardens
19:19
as well, but it has this great collection of
19:23
British art. But to me, it's of a piece. There
19:27
are these incredible gardens outside, and then
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it has this fantastic small collection. British
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art. No, I'm going to change my answer. I'm going
19:36
to change my answer. Sorry, I'm going to change
19:37
it. The best, I think the coolest museum is the
19:42
John Soane Museum in London. He's this amazing
19:46
18th century architect. And it's his house. And
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it's got all these... illusions, and there's
19:54
just something about that experience that I recommend
19:56
to everyone. It's probably the, I mean, there's
19:58
a lot of great museums. I'd be hard -pressed
20:01
to say it is the best, but I think it's probably
20:04
one of the ones that people may not otherwise
20:07
know about or be inclined to go, even though
20:09
it's just an extraordinary building. Yeah, Johnston
20:13
Museum. Okay, all right. If you could pick any
20:17
artist, dead or alive, to produce a portrait
20:19
of you, who would it be? Stumping Saval today.
20:29
Paul Clay. You are leading a training group for
20:32
the Broad Street Run. Do you plan to run to music
20:36
for the day of? And if so, what is your push
20:38
song? I don't plan to run to music, but I'll
20:44
try to come up with a song anyway. It turns out
20:46
I'm a chatty runner, which is really not something
20:50
a lot of people appreciate. Some of them are
20:53
like, I'm tired. I can't breathe. I don't want
20:56
to talk to you. And I just love to just talk
20:59
to the person next to me, and I'm hopeful that
21:01
I'll find a fellow chatty person. But it would
21:07
probably be... Ray of Light by Madonna. That's
21:10
a good tempo, too. Senator Saval, thank you so
21:14
much for your time today and sharing your story
21:16
with us. Thank you so much. It's been such a
21:18
pleasure. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for tuning
21:48
in to Philly Has Heart, your weekly cultural
21:50
update. Until next time, keep creating, keep
21:53
connecting, and remember, Philly has heart. And
21:57
art!