Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Diving into Dillon Dingler's ascent, Spencer Torkelson's slow start and more

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Diving into Dillon Dingler's ascent, Spencer Torkelson's slow start and more · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part
0:12
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network Tiger's podcast. I'm Keerrien Steckley
0:15
Speaker 1: with me as always a man who doesn't believe in curses,
0:18
Speaker 1: but does believe in cursing.
0:20
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavinik, And how we doing tune? All right?
0:23
Speaker 3: We try to keep it PG at least PG thirteen
0:25
Speaker 3: around here, so I won't start off the episode by cursing,
0:28
Speaker 3: even though we are talking about a series in Boston.
0:33
Speaker 1: That was pretty good right there. What you did with
0:34
Speaker 1: the Boston I appreciated that.
0:36
Speaker 2: Well.
0:36
Speaker 1: There was plenty of cursing to go around in Monday's game.
0:40
Speaker 1: We were recording this early evening, late afternoon Monday, after
0:44
Speaker 1: the Tigers wrapped up before game series at Boston versus
0:49
Speaker 1: the Red Sox, and we didn't want to do like
0:51
Speaker 1: any podcasts on Sunday because the series was obviously incomplete.
0:55
Speaker 1: So now now that the series is complete, we have
0:57
Speaker 1: the ability to fully flesh out like our thoughts on
1:02
Speaker 1: on the weekend beginning week in Boston.
1:06
Speaker 2: And I don't know how to feel. This is a
1:09
Speaker 2: weird one, Cody.
1:10
Speaker 1: This is a weird one because you know, obviously the
1:13
Speaker 1: opener goes extras a game like that anybody can win.
1:16
Speaker 2: We all understand that. But two like.
1:20
Speaker 1: Fairly convincing victories after that, Saturday Sunday, even if schoolbl
1:24
Speaker 1: was a little weird.
1:25
Speaker 2: There for a second.
1:26
Speaker 1: And then Sunday, you know, with the least optically pleasing
1:30
Speaker 1: lineup Tigers Twitter has seen in a bit, goes at
1:33
Speaker 1: Gara Crochet and gets the victory. And then you know
1:36
Speaker 1: today Monday, like you have a lead, like you survive
1:41
Speaker 1: like a Jack Flarity Jack Flaherity outing, and then you
1:45
Speaker 1: just have way too many uncharacteristic mistakes that end up
1:49
Speaker 1: with an eight six loss.
1:51
Speaker 2: So like you kind of you go through the weekend
1:55
Speaker 2: feeling really.
1:56
Speaker 1: Good, like you took two out of three obviously easily
1:59
Speaker 1: could have been a sweep. But Monday morning happens, and
2:05
Speaker 1: you might feel like you won the series. But you
2:08
Speaker 1: go home to Detroit with a two to two tie.
2:10
Speaker 1: So it's a little weird. It's a little weird.
2:12
Speaker 3: Cody, Yeah, you know, I thought I was gonna come
2:15
Speaker 3: on here and say, well, hey, you go to Boston,
2:18
Speaker 3: you take two out of two and finway, it's fine.
2:21
Speaker 3: You know, you should come home feeling pretty good, and
2:23
Speaker 3: as I'm thinking about it right now, I don't know, man,
2:28
Speaker 3: I think the Tigers should have won that series if
2:30
Speaker 3: you would have known going in that you were going
2:32
Speaker 3: to beat Garrett Crochet. When your school will start when
2:36
Speaker 3: you think, hey, we might take three out of four.
2:38
Speaker 3: Here you were on a role at home. You do
2:41
Speaker 3: finally win a game on the road, which is ideal. Look,
2:46
Speaker 3: is splitting a series against the Red Sox a bad thing?
2:49
Speaker 2: No?
2:50
Speaker 3: Not really. Is it the end of the world. No,
2:53
Speaker 3: But as you're trying to establish some early season momentum,
2:56
Speaker 3: as you're trying to make up for a couple bad series,
2:59
Speaker 3: A good way to do that would have been to
3:01
Speaker 3: go into Finway and take three out of four. Now
3:03
Speaker 3: you lost an extra and in game like hard fought,
3:06
Speaker 3: low scoring game, but you lost it. And then you
3:08
Speaker 3: kind of got your butt kicked in the eleven am
3:11
Speaker 3: game on Monday, hung around in that game arguably longer
3:14
Speaker 3: than you should have based on the Jack Flaherty start,
3:18
Speaker 3: and then things kind of blew open against Tyler Holton
3:21
Speaker 3: and we can talk about Drew Anderson later if we want.
3:25
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just think if you knew, you
3:27
Speaker 3: were gonna beat Crochet, and you had an opportunity to
3:30
Speaker 3: win the extra inning game. You just didn't get it done.
3:34
Speaker 3: And then you just didn't play very well on Monday.
3:37
Speaker 3: I don't know. I actually don't know that the Tigers
3:39
Speaker 3: should feel pleased coming home. What that does is put
3:44
Speaker 3: more emphasis on having to win the vast majority of
3:46
Speaker 3: your home games. You could argue they're still not quite
3:49
Speaker 3: taking care of business on the road, even though at
3:51
Speaker 3: least they got a couple wins away from home.
3:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely me left on the bone. I would say
3:58
Speaker 1: that's a good because like, like and I, you know,
4:03
Speaker 1: because I enjoyed doing this, Like how do other fan
4:05
Speaker 1: bases like feel about the Tigers? I try to dive
4:08
Speaker 1: into that as much as possible. And you know, the
4:12
Speaker 1: Boston fans were really frustrated what they were seeing from
4:16
Speaker 1: from the Red Sox and and even you know, Monday,
4:18
Speaker 1: during the game, you know a lot of whoa you know,
4:21
Speaker 1: WHOAE is? Me like this is a crap team, like
4:24
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You know, forty five minutes later, you know,
4:28
Speaker 1: Wentzel Perez is pump thinking a throat to Colt Keith,
4:34
Speaker 1: who can't handle it. Properly and then like you know,
4:37
Speaker 1: you get a weird out of home. It's just like
4:38
Speaker 1: it was a lot of a lot of weird stuff
4:40
Speaker 1: on Monday. I guess maybe we should expect that when
4:42
Speaker 1: you start eleven ten local time, and and yeah, I
4:46
Speaker 1: guess you mentioned Drew Anderson. We can just kind of
4:50
Speaker 1: pop one off right here, Cody. I didn't prepare you
4:54
Speaker 1: for this, but I am curious just generally speaking, so
4:58
Speaker 1: not situation specific, just like generally speaking, if you just
5:03
Speaker 1: had to rank these guys in order of confidence like
5:07
Speaker 1: the pitchers today, for the tigers, like your confidence in.
5:11
Speaker 2: Them to to to.
5:13
Speaker 1: Perform, it's actually a tough exercise right now, So Jack
5:17
Speaker 1: Flarerity Brand, Herder, Tyler, Holden, Drew Anderson. That is a
5:22
Speaker 1: tough exercise to rank a confidence meter in these guys.
5:26
Speaker 1: Because Jack Flaherty, when he is on, he is on.
5:30
Speaker 1: But when he's missing the zone and he's a great
5:32
Speaker 1: I mean he's a great athlete on the mound and
5:35
Speaker 1: he just has like a bone I mean boneheaded play.
5:38
Speaker 1: I don't really know how else to to describe it.
5:40
Speaker 1: Boneheaded play. I mean Herder, Holton Anderson.
5:44
Speaker 3: I don't know Holton's number one pretty easily, I think,
5:47
Speaker 3: and Herder has been fine, so we'll give him number two.
5:51
Speaker 3: And uh yeah.
5:54
Speaker 1: So so so that's that's funny because the upside for
5:58
Speaker 1: Flarity is up there with with any of them. But
6:00
Speaker 1: it's just hard to it's hard so that that speaks
6:03
Speaker 1: volumes there. It's just sometimes hard to trust. And uh, yeah,
6:07
Speaker 1: Drew Anderson is somebody who.
6:11
Speaker 2: Fair or unfair.
6:12
Speaker 1: You know, you sign the contract, you get seven million dollars.
6:15
Speaker 1: Every time that you're not on your form, that's what
6:18
Speaker 1: the money's for. Like you're gonna get the vitriol of
6:22
Speaker 1: the fans that feel like.
6:23
Speaker 2: It was not a good use of resources.
6:25
Speaker 1: So like, I don't really have like a huge statement
6:29
Speaker 1: other than that, but it's like there is some pressure
6:32
Speaker 1: on Drew Anderson to be far better than we've seen
6:36
Speaker 1: really since spring training. Like we were on here singing
6:39
Speaker 1: his praises in spring training and we just have it.
6:44
Speaker 2: You know.
6:44
Speaker 1: That's why I always say spring training, you know, doesn't
6:47
Speaker 1: necessarily mean anything. But since then, we just haven't really
6:49
Speaker 1: seen the same guy. And yeah, and and financially you're
6:54
Speaker 1: kind of stuck with him right now, so it's not like,
6:57
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like a lot of way where
6:59
Speaker 1: areas to turn right.
7:00
Speaker 3: The Tigers paid him seven million dollars. They're not just
7:04
Speaker 3: going to dfa him in the first month of the season.
7:07
Speaker 3: It's not as simple to say, oh, go send him
7:09
Speaker 3: to Toledo to get figured out, Like that's not what
7:11
Speaker 3: happens when you're paying someone seven million on a guaranteed
7:16
Speaker 3: major league contract. It does certainly put them in a
7:18
Speaker 3: bind because the confidence is down and we're not going
7:21
Speaker 3: to see Drew Anderson in meaningful innings anytime soon. But
7:25
Speaker 3: you can already see the ripple effects of that. In
7:27
Speaker 3: a seven game series like that meant hurt Her had
7:29
Speaker 3: to stay in and face some right handed matchups that
7:32
Speaker 3: could have gone worse than they did. And it's because, well,
7:35
Speaker 3: you know, you were sixth inning, you were coming off
7:37
Speaker 3: a short start, you would use a lot of vest,
7:40
Speaker 3: used a lot of finn Again, lately, your only other
7:42
Speaker 3: right handed option was Drew Anderson, who you do not
7:45
Speaker 3: want pitching in a close game. One thing that's interesting,
7:50
Speaker 3: you know, and I had written about it this offseason,
7:52
Speaker 3: like could more guys start coming back from the KBO
7:55
Speaker 3: with success? One reason some scouts people in the game
7:58
Speaker 3: believe that's possible. Is the rise of pitch modeling. Things
8:01
Speaker 3: like stuff plus. You can see what a guy's throwing
8:05
Speaker 3: in Korea, plug it into your computer and project that
8:08
Speaker 3: that pitch is going to play a certain way in
8:10
Speaker 3: the major leagues. Drew Anderson right now, he has a
8:13
Speaker 3: ninety two stuff plus rating that is well below league average.
8:17
Speaker 3: That is not very good. So it does make you question,
8:20
Speaker 3: will is the Tigers model just different or the Tigers
8:23
Speaker 3: missing you know, if they signed a guy knowing yet
8:26
Speaker 3: a ninety two stuff plus that is terrible. So either
8:30
Speaker 3: he is not executing near to his potential, which does
8:34
Speaker 3: seem kind of obvious at this rate, or there's something
8:36
Speaker 3: in the Tigers model that they just kind of thought
8:40
Speaker 3: was a magic like a golden ticket. I think it's
8:43
Speaker 3: fair to say he's just not executing, probably not even
8:45
Speaker 3: executing at the level we saw in spring training. But
8:48
Speaker 3: it's certainly difficult and could get problematic if this continues.
8:54
Speaker 3: I wanted to believe for a while that his first
8:56
Speaker 3: couple outings were maybe just feeling out some nerves, pitching back,
9:00
Speaker 3: you know, in a stadium with the third deck. Again,
9:03
Speaker 3: he had one one and a half outings where he
9:05
Speaker 3: looked a little better and since then it just it
9:10
Speaker 3: just hasn't been good. So yeah, it's it's a tough reality.
9:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, tough reality.
9:16
Speaker 1: That's a good way to put it, because like Aj
9:19
Speaker 1: is not shy about like telling you how he views
9:23
Speaker 1: a particular As soon as the Tigers went down three,
9:26
Speaker 1: like it was, Drew Anderson's like warming up, Like it's
9:29
Speaker 1: just like on cue. And unfortunately, like that has a
9:35
Speaker 1: huge ripple effect, more so than a position player that
9:38
Speaker 1: you have very limited usage of. But the thing is
9:40
Speaker 1: AJ doesn't have position players that he wants to hide.
9:44
Speaker 1: That's the whole point. Unfortunately, when a pitcher just doesn't
9:46
Speaker 1: have it like that, you know there's nowhere else to turn.
9:50
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna spin to a little bit more positivity.
9:54
Speaker 1: I feel like there was a little dire there. It's
9:56
Speaker 1: a I guess maybe appropriateitude two tie. But we gotta
9:58
Speaker 1: pay some bills, so we're gonna take a break quick.
10:00
Speaker 1: But afterward, we're gonna we're going to talk about a
10:03
Speaker 1: moment this weekend where AJ was in his bag first.
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11:13
Speaker 2: All right, coming back here.
11:15
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if if aj Hinch is
11:18
Speaker 1: a cigar or smoking man, but I imagine if you if
11:23
Speaker 1: you're a certain age, you remember the show The A Team.
11:25
Speaker 2: If you're Cody and I I's age. You remember the
11:28
Speaker 2: movie The A Team.
11:29
Speaker 1: But the whole line of cigar and now I love
11:33
Speaker 1: it when a plan comes together that I felt like
11:36
Speaker 1: Aj could have had a moment like that on Sunday,
11:38
Speaker 1: because you could have had his Hannibal moment because when
11:43
Speaker 1: that lineup dropped Sunday, Cody, which you know, maybe there
11:46
Speaker 1: was just some anxiousness because the game got pushed a
11:49
Speaker 1: couple hours because of rain, and and then you know,
11:51
Speaker 1: you see the lineup, You're amped up to try to,
11:54
Speaker 1: you know, win the weekend, even though the series was
11:55
Speaker 1: still in the balance, win the weekend.
11:58
Speaker 2: And you got the sight of.
12:00
Speaker 1: Jami Jones, Labor Torres, Matt Berling, Dylan Dingler, Riley Green, Wentzel,
12:04
Speaker 1: Perez Spencil, Turtles and Hyu Lee and Hobby Bias was
12:07
Speaker 1: not appealing.
12:08
Speaker 2: To Tigers Twitter, especially in that order. And what do
12:12
Speaker 2: they do? Man? What did they do?
12:14
Speaker 1: Jami Jones batting leadoff, has a home run, the carpenter
12:19
Speaker 1: in a pinch hit role had a home run or
12:22
Speaker 1: receiving not a home run, had a hit. Glabor Torres
12:24
Speaker 1: had to hit, Vierlean had two Dylan Dingler had four,
12:27
Speaker 1: but of course he'd be in the lineup every day,
12:28
Speaker 1: and Riley getting start getting a start against a lefty
12:32
Speaker 1: head a hit as well, and Hobby Bias collected two
12:34
Speaker 1: base hits in that game. So I know, not all
12:36
Speaker 1: that's against Borshet, but you see what I'm saying here,
12:38
Speaker 1: or it's like the offense had a day that was
12:42
Speaker 1: kind of like proving everything that AJ Hitch like preaches as.
12:45
Speaker 2: To why he does that. We got an example of
12:47
Speaker 2: that on.
12:48
Speaker 1: Sunday against you know, Garrett Crochet, who I thought he
12:51
Speaker 1: was gonna come in and just shut not specific to
12:53
Speaker 1: this lineup, but coming off the worst outing of his line. Yeah,
12:56
Speaker 1: I thought he was gonna be you know, he was
12:58
Speaker 1: gonna be dialed in and go like seven to two
13:00
Speaker 1: hits or whatever, you know, and the Tigers didn't didn't
13:03
Speaker 1: give him that opportunity. And credit to him. Credit AJ.
13:06
Speaker 1: This is why you know we say it's April. This
13:09
Speaker 1: is why AJ sticks to his guns because in his
13:13
Speaker 1: belief is that I am not doing like, I am
13:16
Speaker 1: not doing this randomly, is what he would say. I'm
13:18
Speaker 1: doing this based on the metrics, the data, you know,
13:22
Speaker 1: the player profiles, et cetera. It's not accidental, and it worked.
13:26
Speaker 1: It works a perfection on Sunday.
13:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have a lot to say about that,
13:30
Speaker 3: other than the Jami Jones haters were awfully quiet this weekend.
13:35
Speaker 3: You know what a surprise. The guy who mashes lefties
13:39
Speaker 3: maybe can still hit lefties a little bit. This is
13:43
Speaker 3: how the Tigers operate. They're not gonna change. There're gonna
13:46
Speaker 3: be times maybe you don't like it. Is it possible
13:49
Speaker 3: every now and then things get a little too cute? Maybe,
13:52
Speaker 3: But again, the goal is not for pinch hitting to
13:54
Speaker 3: work one hundred percent of the time. The goal is
13:57
Speaker 3: for it to work more often than not, or more
14:00
Speaker 3: or give you a better chance of success. Then hit,
14:04
Speaker 3: you know, a tough left on left matchup, whether that's
14:07
Speaker 3: a pinch hit or whether that's facing a tough lefty
14:09
Speaker 3: starter like this is how the Tigers operate, and its
14:13
Speaker 3: like again, it's it's kind of like being at the
14:14
Speaker 3: blackjack table and hitting on fifteen or sixteen. Your success rate,
14:19
Speaker 3: your success odds might not be great, but if you
14:23
Speaker 3: choose to hit, your odds are a little bit better
14:26
Speaker 3: than just passing because you because you don't want to
14:29
Speaker 3: take the shot, yes.
14:33
Speaker 1: And the benefit the cost benefit analysis is only there
14:37
Speaker 1: if you do it every time.
14:39
Speaker 3: That's also a great point. Yeah, you kind of have
14:42
Speaker 3: to have the sample before that sat up.
14:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, or not just when, or you don't deviate from
14:48
Speaker 1: it just because like the first two first several times
14:52
Speaker 1: however many like didn't go your way, Like that's that's
14:55
Speaker 1: how it works. And if you if you do dev
14:57
Speaker 1: eight in that instance, then you don't actually have a plan,
15:00
Speaker 1: and then this whole thing is really for not so
15:03
Speaker 1: a great example of what the what what you know
15:05
Speaker 1: the lineup can do when AJ puts him in what
15:08
Speaker 1: he's trying to do, put them in the best chance
15:10
Speaker 1: to succeed, and they at least.
15:11
Speaker 2: For a day. Uh did that on Sunday, which.
15:16
Speaker 1: Kind of leads us to another talking point. Cody Uh
15:19
Speaker 1: Dylan Dinger. Obviously he's an everyday player. You know, he's
15:22
Speaker 1: a catcher, so he's not gonna catch every day. But
15:24
Speaker 1: you understand what I'm saying. He is an everyday player.
15:26
Speaker 1: And he had four hits on Sunday. And I feel
15:29
Speaker 1: good bringing this up today because let me you look
15:33
Speaker 1: at the box score he had. He was one for four, right, No,
15:37
Speaker 1: he was oh for four, oh for four. So we're
15:40
Speaker 1: gonna go for on an zero for four day. We're
15:43
Speaker 1: gonna talk about something that has really emerged over the
15:47
Speaker 1: course of the season, and it's not is Dylan Dingler
15:51
Speaker 1: an All Star? The fans and the votes and the
15:54
Speaker 1: you know, the coaches and the players and stuff are
15:57
Speaker 1: gonna are gonna tell us that here in a couple
15:58
Speaker 1: of months. The talking point is Dylan Dingler a star?
16:03
Speaker 1: Because what we're seeing, Cody, you know, especially when you
16:08
Speaker 1: frame it, see what I did there, when you frame
16:10
Speaker 1: it as a catcher, he is emerging as a star.
16:15
Speaker 1: And I think like we need to start putting him
16:19
Speaker 1: in that context, talking about him in that context, and
16:23
Speaker 1: kind of being at the forefront of saying like this
16:25
Speaker 1: is the next like great catcher in the American League
16:30
Speaker 1: in baseball. It's we have a large enough sample size,
16:33
Speaker 1: I think that we can just kind of flat out
16:35
Speaker 1: say it. We have the question on you know, if
16:37
Speaker 1: you're watching it on YouTube, is he a star? If
16:41
Speaker 1: he's not, Yeah, I want some evidence that Dylan Dingler
16:44
Speaker 1: is not a star, because everywhere I turn and everything
16:48
Speaker 1: I see tells me that Dylan Dingler is a star
16:51
Speaker 1: in this league.
16:54
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, if you're on YouTube, we're We're just gonna
16:56
Speaker 3: put the stack cast page up here. It's a lot
16:59
Speaker 3: of red. This is the stat cast page of a star. Now,
17:03
Speaker 3: granted we are a month into the season, so if
17:06
Speaker 3: you want to chuck this up to what's still a
17:08
Speaker 3: small sample, that's fine, but you can go back to
17:11
Speaker 3: the start of last year. All MLB catchers in terms
17:15
Speaker 3: of war Number one is cal Raley. He hit had
17:18
Speaker 3: a sixty homer season, so that makes sense season and
17:20
Speaker 3: tier of his own. And number two is Dylan Dingler.
17:25
Speaker 3: Since the start of last season. Last year was his
17:27
Speaker 3: first full year in the major leagues. He was the Tigers'
17:31
Speaker 3: most valuable positional position player this year alone one point
17:37
Speaker 3: two f four he's been the best catcher in baseball.
17:40
Speaker 3: Alejandro Kirk ranks just below him at third, but since
17:44
Speaker 3: the start of the twenty twenty five season, Kieren Dylan
17:46
Speaker 3: Dingler has played at a star level, and it's now
17:51
Speaker 3: getting attention because he's getting even better the things he's doing.
17:55
Speaker 3: The way he is hitting the ball has been off
17:58
Speaker 3: the charts. His barrel rate is the highest of anyone
18:01
Speaker 3: in baseball. It's higher than Aaron Judge, Shoeotani, Mike Trout,
18:05
Speaker 3: whoever you want a name. Dylan Dinglis's number one right now.
18:08
Speaker 3: That's in addition to continuing to playing elite defense. I
18:13
Speaker 3: always thought it was funny last year his pop time
18:15
Speaker 3: average pop time is like one point ninety four, ranked
18:19
Speaker 3: thirty third in the league. It felt very mediocre for
18:22
Speaker 3: a guy who's an incredible athlete behind the plate. So
18:26
Speaker 3: once he do comes out and gets better at it,
18:28
Speaker 3: it's averaging one eight eight right now, which is top
18:30
Speaker 3: five in the sport. So he's getting better offensively, he's
18:33
Speaker 3: still finding ways to get better defensively. Could some of
18:36
Speaker 3: this taper off? Like like, I don't know. It was
18:39
Speaker 3: interesting because entering the year you could have circled Dingler
18:41
Speaker 3: and been like, all right, this might be a little
18:43
Speaker 3: bit of a regression candidate, especially offensively, and so far
18:47
Speaker 3: early in the season looks like not only is he
18:49
Speaker 3: not regressing, he is getting even better. He's looking like
18:53
Speaker 3: those internal developments Scott Harris likes to talk about. I
18:57
Speaker 3: don't know if he'll continue tearing up, you know, things
18:59
Speaker 3: to disagree at the plate, but I do think the
19:01
Speaker 3: power is pretty real and as long as he continues
19:06
Speaker 3: to play defense anywhere close to the level he has
19:09
Speaker 3: for his whole time in the major league so far.
19:11
Speaker 3: I mean, this guy's this guy's one of the very
19:14
Speaker 3: best catchers in the sport. And that might be putting
19:17
Speaker 3: it lightly.
19:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the defense stuff, and then we
19:22
Speaker 1: don't have this, maybe they should add it Cody on
19:27
Speaker 1: Baseball Savant, But it does kind of feel like he's
19:30
Speaker 1: got an impeccable percentage of successful challenges. Like his understanding
19:36
Speaker 1: of the strike zone and the context of the abs is.
19:40
Speaker 2: Like a real asset for the Tigers.
19:43
Speaker 1: Like you feel very comfortable if he is going to
19:46
Speaker 1: tap that helmet that the call is going to get overturned.
19:50
Speaker 1: And we've seen enough of these games, and if you
19:53
Speaker 1: watch other teams obviously have a broader perspective on this,
19:56
Speaker 1: Like not every catcher has that in them. Whether it's
20:00
Speaker 1: because they just don't have the understanding of the strike zone,
20:04
Speaker 1: whether they just don't have the they don't do the.
20:06
Speaker 2: Same homework that Dingler does. I don't know.
20:08
Speaker 1: All I know is that this is actually like a
20:10
Speaker 1: real asset for the team. Dylan Dingler's ability to understand
20:14
Speaker 1: what the strike zone is and you've written about abs
20:18
Speaker 1: generally recently Cody. And it's not just like what we
20:22
Speaker 1: think of in a classical sense of the strike zone,
20:24
Speaker 1: like it's different for every hitter obviously, I know if
20:27
Speaker 1: you guys know this, so you have to have an
20:29
Speaker 1: understanding of the zone through like the entire lineup plus
20:34
Speaker 1: pinch hitters, plus all this stuff like that. That is
20:39
Speaker 1: not an accident that Dylan Dingler is very successful at this.
20:43
Speaker 1: So like if like again like that, is that going
20:46
Speaker 1: to get him All Star votes? I don't know, but
20:49
Speaker 1: does what it contributed to his to his gold Glove case?
20:53
Speaker 6: Maybe because I do got to feel like that is
20:56
Speaker 6: a very important job of a catcher and as a
20:59
Speaker 6: if I am imagine as a pitcher on the on
21:01
Speaker 6: the Tigers staff, like that, that's an extra.
21:06
Speaker 1: Era of confidence knowing that, like if it's on the paint,
21:10
Speaker 1: I don't get the call if the situation calls for it,
21:13
Speaker 1: like Dylan's gonna have my back that way too.
21:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's again been one of, if not the best
21:21
Speaker 3: in baseball at this so far, he's eleven for thirteen
21:23
Speaker 3: on challenges behind the plate. He's one of one while batting,
21:29
Speaker 3: so he's been really good at this whole ABS challenge
21:32
Speaker 3: system thing. If you're watching on YouTube, ranks at the
21:36
Speaker 3: top of overturned verse expected, which basically means based on
21:41
Speaker 3: the pitches that he's seen, he's blowing away what other
21:46
Speaker 3: catchers in the league have done. Sounds like he's challenged
21:48
Speaker 3: some really close pitches and been right on them. Now
21:51
Speaker 3: you can also see he's slightly below the overall challenge
21:55
Speaker 3: rate versus expected. I actually think the Tigers might like
21:58
Speaker 3: to see him challenge a little little bit more, even
22:01
Speaker 3: if that means you miss a couple here and there.
22:05
Speaker 3: That is one of the things that aj Hinch talked
22:07
Speaker 3: about this a few days ago. One of the things
22:08
Speaker 3: they the Tigers evaluate just not not just the overall
22:11
Speaker 3: success rate, but like, was there a pitch you could
22:14
Speaker 3: have challenged? And there might actually be more opportunities for
22:18
Speaker 3: Dingler to do that, But it is pretty hard to
22:20
Speaker 3: argue with the track record he's got going on right now.
22:24
Speaker 3: He's he's been really good. I do think it highlights
22:26
Speaker 3: his preparedness, his knowledge of the strike zone. Overall.
22:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's there's an element like there's preparedness,
22:36
Speaker 1: so like I think it's kind of instinct and sometimes
22:41
Speaker 1: like instinct implies like you know, not having to do
22:44
Speaker 1: the homework, and I don't mean that like like you
22:46
Speaker 1: like he does the homework, so instinctually he knows because
22:50
Speaker 1: you only have like what a second, two seconds whatever
22:54
Speaker 1: to challenge and so like like you just have to
22:58
Speaker 1: know right off the bat that's a strike can have
23:00
Speaker 1: the you know, because the cost is great, like either
23:03
Speaker 1: you run out or like you you're now you know,
23:06
Speaker 1: one and possibly done after that. So there is like
23:09
Speaker 1: there's a risk assessment there too that you just instinctively
23:13
Speaker 1: have to kind of know and and you know, the
23:15
Speaker 1: numbers say like he is the best at it, and like,
23:19
Speaker 1: I don't think it's also an accident that he hasn't
23:22
Speaker 1: challenged as much as other guys, because I think he
23:25
Speaker 1: is trying to straddle that line between you know, necessarily
23:29
Speaker 1: being aggressive of being forthright, but also not being reckless, which.
23:32
Speaker 3: He's used them in situations, whether it's it's either going
23:35
Speaker 3: to flip account or or alter an ending. So he's
23:39
Speaker 3: certainly been good at paying attention and having the overall
23:42
Speaker 3: game situation in the back of his mind.
23:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in a lot of ways, he is like
23:49
Speaker 1: the ultimate backstop right now, and uh, and I think
23:53
Speaker 1: we need to start like kind of approaching it from
23:56
Speaker 1: that angle and like nationally he needs to get that
23:59
Speaker 1: sort of pegnic.
24:00
Speaker 3: And it's just amazing how quickly that's happened. Yeah, I
24:04
Speaker 3: mean he's still in a second full MLB season. You know,
24:07
Speaker 3: his rookie year he looked overmatched, overwhelmed. Came in last
24:12
Speaker 3: year was like playing pretty well. You know, I didn't
24:14
Speaker 3: all right first half, but he wasn't one of the
24:16
Speaker 3: mini Tigers who went to the All Star Game. And
24:19
Speaker 3: then while a lot of other people floundered, he somewhat quietly,
24:22
Speaker 3: I would argue, I had a really strong second half
24:26
Speaker 3: hit I think two thirty three in August and September.
24:29
Speaker 3: Then was playing every single day, and then you look
24:31
Speaker 3: up and it's like, oh he had a great year.
24:34
Speaker 3: And now you look up and it's like, oh, wait,
24:36
Speaker 3: he's a top two catcher in the sport. You know,
24:40
Speaker 3: it kind of got here on us quietly, but it
24:42
Speaker 3: is here. He hits clean up, he's hit clean up
24:45
Speaker 3: five times, he's hit fifth six times. He is hitting
24:47
Speaker 3: above what you would think of as some more potent
24:51
Speaker 3: hitters in this lineup. But that's how good Dan Dingler
24:54
Speaker 3: is right now.
24:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also wanted the shout out Jake Rogers forgetting
24:59
Speaker 1: stolen Bay. While we're on the catcher conversation.
25:02
Speaker 3: The demise of Jake Rodgers has been overstated, stolen.
25:09
Speaker 1: Emily Ribby's uh So, I just wanted to also, you know,
25:13
Speaker 1: we're talking about Dylan Dingler like it's important because you
25:17
Speaker 1: know what you mentioned last year, it's important that Jake
25:19
Speaker 1: Rogers be competent at the plate like this year, so
25:25
Speaker 1: that Dylan Dingler doesn't have to be metaphorically running to
25:29
Speaker 1: the ground at catching you know, if he's off his feet,
25:32
Speaker 1: dhing whatever. But that was obviously the case last year
25:35
Speaker 1: where you just had to have him in the lineup.
25:37
Speaker 1: And you know, there will be a lot of factors,
25:38
Speaker 1: so the protection of Dylan Dingler is gonna be one
25:43
Speaker 1: of the second half storylines in multiple facets as a
25:45
Speaker 1: court in regards to their win lost record.
25:48
Speaker 3: And then Jakes, since you brought that up here, and
25:50
Speaker 3: there's there's a lot of Jake Rogers hate these days.
25:53
Speaker 3: I think it's because in part, Dingler's become so good
25:56
Speaker 3: it just feels, you know, you see Jake's name in
25:57
Speaker 3: the lineup and you're like, oh, really, Like Jake Rodgers
26:00
Speaker 3: is a really good defender, not a great hitter, but
26:03
Speaker 3: there's some pop in the bat. I think he would
26:06
Speaker 3: start for eight to ten other MLB teams. Like, you
26:09
Speaker 3: could do a lot worse than Jake Rogers as as
26:12
Speaker 3: your backup catcher.
26:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, look, dude, like you think it's easy
26:18
Speaker 1: to have been the Bigs a couple of years, finding
26:21
Speaker 1: your footing, and then all of a sudden like this,
26:24
Speaker 1: this this guy just like emerges and becomes like the
26:28
Speaker 1: catcher for your team. You know, after you spend a
26:30
Speaker 1: year catching every single start of the cy young season
26:34
Speaker 1: and then you get surpassed like that, You.
26:37
Speaker 2: Think that's easy.
26:37
Speaker 1: Hell, no, it's not easy. But Jake's been the same
26:40
Speaker 1: dude through and through. Clubhouse loves him. He's still like
26:44
Speaker 1: a leader in there. Like could you do a lot
26:47
Speaker 1: worse at Jake Rodgers? You do a lot worse at
26:50
Speaker 1: Jake Rodgers. Let me tell you for everything that he
26:53
Speaker 1: everything that he brings to the clubhouse. All right, speaking
26:57
Speaker 1: of doing worse, we have not seen a great start
27:03
Speaker 1: to the season from one Spencer Torkelsen. And if today
27:07
Speaker 1: was any indication, aj hinches at least open to the
27:12
Speaker 1: possibility of alternate options at first base. When Spencer Torkelsen
27:20
Speaker 1: is not hitting now today it was Colt Keith. I
27:26
Speaker 1: would say, I'm not a big fan of Colt Keith
27:30
Speaker 1: having extended run at first base. I think we saw
27:33
Speaker 1: multiple instances today of him just not being a natural there.
27:37
Speaker 1: Why is he not natural there? Because he hasn't played
27:39
Speaker 1: first base his entire life.
27:42
Speaker 2: I was cussed speaking of cursing.
27:43
Speaker 1: He hasn't played first base his entire life, and now
27:46
Speaker 1: he's got to do it at the major league level.
27:47
Speaker 1: And there's just you know, instincts, nuances that just come
27:51
Speaker 1: with having played that a lot. And it costed the
27:54
Speaker 1: Tigers at least one run today, So that, aside the
28:01
Speaker 1: Torque thing is something that could be like obviously a
28:05
Speaker 1: hindrance to this team because you the best version of
28:09
Speaker 1: this team has torgalsin cable, you know, hitting thirty bomps.
28:11
Speaker 1: We've seen that in multiple as instances of what he
28:15
Speaker 1: can bring to the lineup, even if he's not some
28:18
Speaker 1: you know stud that you count every day.
28:20
Speaker 2: The fear has to always be there, I think is
28:22
Speaker 2: the best way to put it.
28:24
Speaker 1: And if people want to defend him, which I don't
28:27
Speaker 1: think he probably has that many defenders. But if there
28:29
Speaker 1: is a defense of Spencer Torglsen, it's that, yes, he
28:33
Speaker 1: is hitting two eleven. This is prior to Monday's game.
28:36
Speaker 1: He is hitting two eleven versus the fastball, but the
28:39
Speaker 1: expected ballion average would be two seventy six.
28:42
Speaker 2: And he's sluggy.
28:43
Speaker 3: He's saying eleven versus the fastball to eleven. Oh oh, okay,
28:48
Speaker 3: that's not a riveting defense.
28:50
Speaker 2: No, the expected battion average would be two seventy six.
28:53
Speaker 1: So okay, all right, he's bad luck. That he's running
28:58
Speaker 1: for bad luck. And then same with slug. It's like
29:00
Speaker 1: a two sixty three to two sixty five slug against
29:03
Speaker 1: the fastball. His expected slug would be four eighty one.
29:06
Speaker 1: So like the defense of Spencer Torklsen is that like, yes,
29:11
Speaker 1: he's it's not like, oh my god, he's just running
29:14
Speaker 1: into bad.
29:14
Speaker 2: Luck all the time.
29:16
Speaker 1: But he is a but his launch, his sweet spot percentage,
29:19
Speaker 1: his bad speed's okay. He actually he's in the ninety
29:22
Speaker 1: three percentile and base on ball percentage if you want
29:25
Speaker 1: to be positive here and we have the the savant
29:28
Speaker 1: page up.
29:29
Speaker 2: If you're watching on YouTube. He's not chasing as much.
29:32
Speaker 1: Like there are things to like, but the reality of
29:36
Speaker 1: the situation is is that the output is not there
29:39
Speaker 1: right now and it is creating at least an uncomfortable
29:44
Speaker 1: decision making process for aj Hinch because you don't really
29:49
Speaker 1: have another first baseman on this team, and Cole Keith,
29:54
Speaker 1: you know, showed you that on Monday. So I don't
29:56
Speaker 1: know what your measure take is on this, Cody. I'm
30:00
Speaker 1: inclined to kind of ride out the Spencer Totlesence slump,
30:05
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean he has a hall pass for
30:07
Speaker 1: the rest of the year.
30:10
Speaker 2: I don't know.
30:11
Speaker 3: That's sorry, but yeah, well said again. I think you
30:14
Speaker 3: nailed it right there. The last time we talked about
30:17
Speaker 3: this in any sort of depth, I like Turtlesen sat
30:20
Speaker 3: a three seventy three on base percentage or something that's
30:24
Speaker 3: pretty quickly creator to three twenty nine. I liked it.
30:27
Speaker 3: You know, his walk rate is good, but he's only
30:31
Speaker 3: walked three times his last twenty six plate appearances. He's
30:34
Speaker 3: two for his last twenty at the plate. What became
30:36
Speaker 3: a slow start turned into a full on slump pretty quickly,
30:41
Speaker 3: and as I kind of predicted, like those at bats
30:44
Speaker 3: might be starting to dry up a little cold. Keith
30:46
Speaker 3: at first base, I know the defense wasn't pretty. I
30:49
Speaker 3: think you'd get a little better if he is called
30:51
Speaker 3: on to play there more. And I think that has
30:54
Speaker 3: to be a real option. I don't think the Tigers
30:58
Speaker 3: are going to like demote to send next week or
31:01
Speaker 3: anything like that. Again, like he's got a little bit
31:04
Speaker 3: of a track record, So I kind of view it
31:07
Speaker 3: as I was viewing the whole team ten days two
31:10
Speaker 3: weeks ago, like, Okay, this isn't great. It's probably gonna
31:14
Speaker 3: be okay, but you would like to start seeing some
31:16
Speaker 3: better signs. Hitting the fastball would be a good sign.
31:19
Speaker 3: Taking the walks is an okay sign. You know, he
31:21
Speaker 3: had a little bit of tough luck. But an average
31:24
Speaker 3: exit velocity of what eighty eight miles an hour, Like
31:27
Speaker 3: that's not terrific. A relatively low barrel rate seven percent,
31:31
Speaker 3: that's not great. Let's start to see torque. Sting the
31:36
Speaker 3: ball to either the pull side or the big the
31:38
Speaker 3: big part of the field a little bit more often.
31:40
Speaker 3: Those are the things that would encourage it can encourage me.
31:43
Speaker 3: And honestly, hearing the thing that has me really worried
31:46
Speaker 3: here's his heat maps. We've seen this before with Torque,
31:50
Speaker 3: where he's just not covering the whole plate, and worse,
31:53
Speaker 3: he's not doing anything with pitches over the middle. I
31:56
Speaker 3: believe he has seen eighteen pitches right down the middle
32:00
Speaker 3: this season. His slugging percentage on those pitches is zero.
32:05
Speaker 3: That's not good. That is not how you can make
32:08
Speaker 3: a living as a major league hitter. It's a little
32:11
Speaker 3: bit of a misconception that every pitch down the middle
32:13
Speaker 3: gets crushed. They're progressive teams, now, that's just telling their guys, hey,
32:17
Speaker 3: set up down the middle, throw it down the middle.
32:19
Speaker 3: You'll be surprised at how many don't get hit. But
32:21
Speaker 3: if you're Spencer Turglesen and your job is to be
32:23
Speaker 3: a right hitting, power hitting first baseman, your slugging percentage
32:28
Speaker 3: cannot be zero or blue in all the places. It
32:31
Speaker 3: is blue right now. There's been a thing with him
32:34
Speaker 3: on and off throughout his career where he is just
32:36
Speaker 3: missing hitable pitches where his timing appears off. He's certainly
32:39
Speaker 3: in one of those funks right now. And once I
32:41
Speaker 3: started noticing him miss or be late on some of
32:45
Speaker 3: these middle middle pitches, is really when I kind of
32:48
Speaker 3: started to get worried. So let's give it a little
32:52
Speaker 3: bit longer, but certainly time we need to start seeing
32:54
Speaker 3: some better signs.
32:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just not there's something to the approach to
33:02
Speaker 1: the confidence of attack like he he was getting.
33:07
Speaker 2: It kind of reminded me of a couple.
33:08
Speaker 1: Of years ago, honestly with him at least on Saturday
33:11
Speaker 1: as I get my days correct, where he's getting pummeled
33:14
Speaker 1: with junk low and away and then you know, then
33:17
Speaker 1: he gets like something that's a little hang in a
33:20
Speaker 1: little middle and he can't do anything with it. And
33:23
Speaker 1: like and we know he can't. We know that that's
33:26
Speaker 1: in there. We've seen it like large enough sable size
33:29
Speaker 1: that he that it can be done with him. But
33:33
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, he's just not kind of connecting everything.
33:36
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there's if you know, there's
33:40
Speaker 1: not some magic elixir with his load or whatever like
33:43
Speaker 1: it was last year, but there's something that has to
33:46
Speaker 1: kind of something has to change because you're just not
33:49
Speaker 1: gonna you can't survive in two eleven on the fastball.
33:52
Speaker 2: Just kid.
33:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I think it's a little too early
33:56
Speaker 3: to place too much stake into you know where he's
33:59
Speaker 3: at in every single person, tile or whatever. But he's
34:01
Speaker 3: clearly been very passive at the plate. His first pitch
34:04
Speaker 3: swing percentage is thirteen percent. That's down from thirty one
34:08
Speaker 3: percent a year ago, So he's almost never swinging at
34:10
Speaker 3: the first pitch. He has taken his walks, but his
34:13
Speaker 3: swing percentage is down from forty four percent to thirty
34:16
Speaker 3: six percent. So like there's enough of a sample to say, Okay,
34:20
Speaker 3: he's he's being passive, and then when he is getting
34:23
Speaker 3: those pitches to hit, he's just not on them. So
34:27
Speaker 3: maybe the approach is the first place to look and
34:30
Speaker 3: hope some other things, timing, mechanics, whatever it may be,
34:33
Speaker 3: kicking to place, because I feel like we've seen that
34:35
Speaker 3: happen with to work in the past two where once
34:38
Speaker 3: the approach gets a little better, you start seeing some
34:40
Speaker 3: balls leave the yard and then you feel a lot
34:42
Speaker 3: better about the whole thing.
34:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's hit a couple more topics here. Cody,
34:52
Speaker 1: as we're about thirty five minutes into this episode, thoughts
34:57
Speaker 1: on hoy you Lee getting the call up, over all
35:00
Speaker 1: the options that we discussed, and.
35:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, today it was obviously his best.
35:06
Speaker 1: Day as professional, so you know, congrats to him, first
35:09
Speaker 1: first hit, first extra base hit. You know he's certainly
35:13
Speaker 1: was not a lack of chances at the field this weekend.
35:18
Speaker 1: Thoughts on the decision to call him up when it's
35:21
Speaker 1: not like he had been killing it in Toledo and
35:23
Speaker 1: then just watching him out there in the context of
35:25
Speaker 1: being a major leaguer.
35:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Obviously was not the decision I had predicted.
35:31
Speaker 3: It makes sense given the Tigers had not only two
35:34
Speaker 3: lefties in Boston, but some other lefties coming up was
35:37
Speaker 3: a throwback to being like really hyper focused on matchups,
35:43
Speaker 3: and given he had the oblique issue had been off
35:46
Speaker 3: to a little bit of a slow starting Toleedo. I
35:48
Speaker 3: was still kind of surprised. I was like, all right,
35:50
Speaker 3: here you go, kid, Garrett Kroshe, good luck. But it
35:54
Speaker 3: makes sense given the matchups. Probably not the most impressive
35:58
Speaker 3: first couple games of of his life. I actually think,
36:01
Speaker 3: how you Lee can be a pretty good defender at
36:04
Speaker 3: both second and third at the plate, it was good
36:07
Speaker 3: to see him get the first hit, have a nice
36:09
Speaker 3: day on Monday, because this guy still watch his front foot.
36:14
Speaker 3: That thing is still going toward third base almost every time,
36:17
Speaker 3: and that really worries me and how that's going to
36:19
Speaker 3: play against major league pitching. He's been able to generate
36:23
Speaker 3: really good exit velocities in the minor leagues just because
36:26
Speaker 3: he's a strong kid, quickhand, strong wrist, but that extra
36:30
Speaker 3: second of being off or being late, I feel like
36:35
Speaker 3: could hurt him in the major leagues. In spring he
36:38
Speaker 3: had corrected that a little bit. The stride directionally was better,
36:42
Speaker 3: but I felt he was like overstriding, getting off balance,
36:45
Speaker 3: getting on his front foot. It seems to have gotten
36:47
Speaker 3: out of that, but now that thing's going back in
36:49
Speaker 3: the bucket a little bit. I was talking to someone,
36:51
Speaker 3: I was like, maybe that's just a testament to how
36:53
Speaker 3: good he is, because if you can make the major
36:54
Speaker 3: leagues stepping in the bucket on every swing, like, you
36:57
Speaker 3: gotta have some talent here. So yeah, but I think
37:02
Speaker 3: some things mechanically to clean up if if we end
37:04
Speaker 3: up seeing him for a little bit of an extended
37:07
Speaker 3: run here.
37:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, you know.
37:11
Speaker 1: I I saw everything from lead this weekend, Like I
37:15
Speaker 1: saw why he's like one of the O. G. Harris
37:18
Speaker 1: kind of guys, and then I saw like what the
37:21
Speaker 1: concerns are for him as a viable major leaguer long term.
37:27
Speaker 1: It was all kind of there. And obviously he's far
37:29
Speaker 1: from a Finnish product. We're not putting all that on
37:32
Speaker 1: him or anything like that. But in the context of
37:34
Speaker 1: this weekend, you kind of you got like the full picture,
37:37
Speaker 1: and it really just kind of depends on what flavor
37:39
Speaker 1: you prefer, which side you're gonna be on with with
37:42
Speaker 1: Lee and and and and that's okay, Like I don't
37:44
Speaker 1: think we're gonna see him like once hopefully McKinstry heals
37:48
Speaker 1: up and then you know, you kind of get your
37:50
Speaker 1: full fledged roster back and lead you know, gets to
37:53
Speaker 1: work on these things in Toledo, and then after that
37:55
Speaker 1: we'll see. But but yeah, it made sense why they
38:00
Speaker 1: opted to do this. And then also more context, Max Anderson,
38:05
Speaker 1: you know, dealing with according to Linn Hending, dealing with
38:08
Speaker 1: a strained quad, so that would explain his lack of
38:11
Speaker 1: playing time. So you know, you know, there's a lot
38:13
Speaker 1: everything kind of affects everything, as I kind of tongue
38:18
Speaker 1: in cheekly like to say sometimes, and you know, it.
38:20
Speaker 3: Doesn't seem like we have a ton of info in
38:22
Speaker 3: the McKinstry injury right now. Justin Verlander was supposed to
38:26
Speaker 3: travel with the Tigers to Boston and then did not.
38:29
Speaker 3: So if you're looking for good signs there, we're still waiting.
38:33
Speaker 3: I don't see what the next update on JV is.
38:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, and let's wrap up here, Cody, because
38:40
Speaker 1: I do think we need to start just kind of
38:43
Speaker 1: putting this out there and we don't have to spend
38:45
Speaker 1: a whole lot of time on it. Max Clark, to
38:48
Speaker 1: his credit, continues to just kill it in Toledo right now,
38:52
Speaker 1: as of Monday afternoon.
38:54
Speaker 2: He's got a nine thirty five. Ops. I don't know
38:56
Speaker 2: if you're into that sort of thing.
38:58
Speaker 1: You know, he's like throwing guys out, he's stealing bases,
39:01
Speaker 1: like he is doing everything. Like if he just didn't
39:04
Speaker 1: have if you have just had a below average spring, imagine,
39:08
Speaker 1: you know, instead of like a really disappointing one, Imagine
39:10
Speaker 1: what the hype level would be for him right now,
39:12
Speaker 1: given how high it is already.
39:14
Speaker 2: Uh, there's a lot of.
39:18
Speaker 1: Like Wenzel Perez is you know what is he's nine
39:21
Speaker 1: or these two for.
39:23
Speaker 2: One for twenty seven? Oof?
39:26
Speaker 1: Uh, Wes al Perez this this season had to get
39:29
Speaker 1: that correct.
39:32
Speaker 2: I don't think these two.
39:33
Speaker 1: Things are directly related, Cody. I don't think Max Clark
39:36
Speaker 1: killing it in Toledo and Wenzel Perez struggling in Detroit,
39:40
Speaker 1: are are just like gonna have this joint connected at
39:44
Speaker 1: the hip relationship when the Max Clark decision is that
39:49
Speaker 1: has to be made, which you know, seems like it's
39:52
Speaker 1: you know, sooner than maybe we thought. I but I
39:56
Speaker 1: think people connect those two naturally. So am I wrong
39:59
Speaker 1: or are the people.
40:01
Speaker 2: Wrong about like.
40:02
Speaker 1: What's gonna kind of go into because I just feel
40:04
Speaker 1: like when Max Clark's ready, he's gonna be ready, and
40:07
Speaker 1: then when the opportunity comes, they're gonna call him up.
40:10
Speaker 1: I don't think it's Max Clark's ready, yeah, and Wentzel
40:14
Speaker 1: is struggling, so therefore we're gonna swap him out.
40:16
Speaker 2: I just don't think it's that simple.
40:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the two things are certainly related. I
40:22
Speaker 3: don't know that it's like a you know, an either
40:26
Speaker 3: or like I don't think they're one hundred percent attached
40:28
Speaker 3: to the hit, but it's certainly a strong factor to
40:31
Speaker 3: look at when you when you try to project when
40:33
Speaker 3: Max Clark is going to make his debut. If Max
40:36
Speaker 3: Clark just doesn't look ready, whether it's in the scoreboard, numbers,
40:39
Speaker 3: or he's not hitting well on pitches above ninety five
40:43
Speaker 3: miles an hour or something, which I haven't even looked
40:44
Speaker 3: at those numbers. Based on how he's how he's hitting,
40:47
Speaker 3: seems like he's doing well all around, and there's just
40:49
Speaker 3: not that much velocity in triple A. We'll update that
40:53
Speaker 3: next episode, we'll even go look at it. Anyway, if
40:56
Speaker 3: he's not ready, they're not gonna call him up. They're
40:58
Speaker 3: not gonna rush him up because another player is struggling.
41:01
Speaker 3: But if Max Clark continues to thrive and checks boxes
41:05
Speaker 3: the team would like to see to indicate he is ready,
41:10
Speaker 3: they might make that decision sooner than otherwise. If Wincele
41:14
Speaker 3: Perez is struggling. I don't think this team is content
41:17
Speaker 3: to flounder in center field if Winsle doesn't get things
41:22
Speaker 3: going to flounder in the outfield. Like, I think there's
41:24
Speaker 3: too much at stake. This year. They have demonstrated a
41:28
Speaker 3: pretty clear commitment to winning. That's been that's been great
41:31
Speaker 3: to see, And part of that is, like I just
41:34
Speaker 3: don't think they're they're going to keep Max Clark down
41:38
Speaker 3: if they're getting you know, if they feel like he
41:40
Speaker 3: can be a useful option at the major league level. Now,
41:43
Speaker 3: does that mean someone like tree Cruz maybe comes up
41:46
Speaker 3: before him? Like maybe, And the converse is like, if
41:50
Speaker 3: Winsle starts playing well and Winstl's killing it and Max
41:53
Speaker 3: is killing it, I think that further incentivites the team
41:56
Speaker 3: to hold off, to think, all right, let's wait until
41:58
Speaker 3: these past the Super two deadline and take this thing
42:01
Speaker 3: into you know, however long it may be. So I
42:06
Speaker 3: hope that makes sense. If winstill's playing well, I think
42:09
Speaker 3: that could indicate Max Clark stays down longer. But if
42:12
Speaker 3: wins Will struggles and Max keeps playing well, like that
42:15
Speaker 3: decision point, that pressure point amplifies a lot. And based
42:19
Speaker 3: on what we've seen, I think that there could be
42:22
Speaker 3: a certain point in time where the Tigers would be
42:25
Speaker 3: willing to make such a decision.
42:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, this just feels like one of those graphs where
42:32
Speaker 1: you just kind of move down the X and Y
42:36
Speaker 1: is like, where is the point of no return for this?
42:38
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
42:39
Speaker 1: And like, and maybe that's true, but I just but yeah,
42:43
Speaker 1: I just don't feel like it's a trade, a straight trade.
42:46
Speaker 1: There's lot where for the simple fact that there are
42:49
Speaker 1: long term considerations both for Max and then you know,
42:52
Speaker 1: the contractual elements to this as they exist right now,
42:57
Speaker 1: that just don't apply to a struggling Wentzel Perez and
43:01
Speaker 1: and Winzell is still like he's I think, I think
43:04
Speaker 1: it's fair to say Winsill has earned he has enough,
43:08
Speaker 1: like Pelts on the Wall, to like earn an opportunity
43:10
Speaker 1: to kind of get right, you know, as long as
43:14
Speaker 1: he's as long as the team, you know, can manage that.
43:17
Speaker 1: Like I think winsl has earned that over the course
43:19
Speaker 1: of the past couple of years.
43:20
Speaker 2: But not much beyond that.
43:23
Speaker 1: There's a lot of steak here and then that's the
43:25
Speaker 1: and that's probably the theme of the episode.
43:26
Speaker 2: A lot of steak.
43:28
Speaker 1: Can't necessarily mess around with your third or fourth outfield spot.
43:31
Speaker 1: You can't mess around with first base. You certainly can't
43:34
Speaker 1: be throwing the ball away like they did like they
43:36
Speaker 1: did like they did today, because as we said, there's
43:39
Speaker 1: a lot of steak. All right, Cody, anything else before
43:43
Speaker 1: we jet out of here?
43:44
Speaker 3: Oh man, we packed a lot in this episode. We
43:47
Speaker 3: didn't even talk that much about Flaherty or some other things.
43:50
Speaker 3: I think that's it for now. Casey Mice, look at
43:53
Speaker 3: Casey mice. No, we should probably duck out here and
43:57
Speaker 3: we will be back in a couple more days, all right.
44:00
Speaker 1: You can follow us on x Oneman on Twitter, at
44:02
Speaker 1: Cody stave in Hagen at qan on Score s Decty
44:04
Speaker 1: pot page, at Tiger Territory Underscore YouTube. Please subscribe as
44:08
Speaker 1: we continue to grow there Apple, Spotify, you guys know
44:10
Speaker 1: what to do. We appreciate all of you, so for
44:12
Speaker 1: Cody Stapenhagen, I'm Kirch Steckley.
44:14
Speaker 2: Ever we have great day,