Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / RRR W/ Rob - It's The Secret Service's Fault

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RRR W/ Rob - It's The Secret Service's Fault · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey there, pull up a chair Rob's got a question
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to share.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Started with a light red rod and an old note
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: in the margin thinning.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Then a side road turned to.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Three more roads and here we go again.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: A photograph, a witness, a date that doesn't.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: Quite align One small fact becomes a winding track by
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: a quarter after nine Random.
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: Research, ramblings with a rock Take the long way, let
• 0:55
  Speaker 5: the rabbit hole by.
• 0:58
  Speaker 6: From odd little facts to the big what ifs. We'll
• 1:02
  Speaker 6: follow every tangent till the evidence slips.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Random research, ramblings with Rob. Bring your questions, bring your
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: curious thoughts.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Was it the grassy knoll or a file misfiled?
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Rob's got a theory, but he's checking them out.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: No final answers, just a notebook.
• 1:26
  Speaker 7: And a grin.
• 1:28
  Speaker 8: Tooling for the question and the rabbit hole within.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Random research, ramblings with Rob. Where the side note is
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: where we begin.
• 2:08
  Speaker 7: What's up everybody? It's me, it's me, it's the Triple B!
• 2:12
  Speaker 7: Big Bad Bob here with you for another exciting edition
• 2:17
  Speaker 7: of Random Research Ramblings with Rob. Today I want to
• 2:22
  Speaker 7: talk to you guys a little bit about the Secret
• 2:26
  Speaker 7: Service and Presidential Protection. And what I mean by that? Well,
• 2:34
  Speaker 7: here we are some 63 years later after the assassination.
• 2:40
  Speaker 7: And a lot can be focused on the who, what, where,
• 2:45
  Speaker 7: why of the assassination. But one thing that I think
• 2:52
  Speaker 7: we can all agree on is that ultimately it boils
• 2:59
  Speaker 7: down to the fact that it is the Secret Service's
• 3:03
  Speaker 7: job to protect the president. And if we are going
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: to lay blame at the feet of an organization or
• 3:13
  Speaker 7: individuals whose fault it was that this assassination took place
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: in broad daylight in the middle of a big city,
• 3:28
  Speaker 7: then I think we can all agree that we can
• 3:33
  Speaker 7: at least say, hey, the Secret Service fucked up, okay,
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: that day. And we can lay the blame for the
• 3:40
  Speaker 7: assassination at their feet. Now what's interesting about the Secret
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: Service as a whole, as an organization, is that nobody
• 3:51
  Speaker 7: got fired after November 22, 1963. Nobody got written up.
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: Nobody got demoted. Nobody got moved. And when you parallel
• 4:03
  Speaker 7: that to the FBI, for instance, uh, After the assassination,
• 4:09
  Speaker 7: Hoover brought down a lot of, I won't say earth-shattering
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: restructuring of the FBI or anything, but he did reprimand
• 4:27
  Speaker 7: several people in the FBI, both on paper and verbally
• 4:32
  Speaker 7: and monetarily, for their fault. in not preventing the assassination
• 4:44
  Speaker 7: or taking a bigger interest in this Lee Harvey Oswald guy,
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: but also certain things that happened after the assassination as well.
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: I believe Hoover personally held responsible upwards of 30 agents
• 5:00
  Speaker 7: of the FBI for their.
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: Not.
• 5:06
  Speaker 7: Living up to the expectations set forth by Hoover's FBI,
• 5:10
  Speaker 7: which is, don't make us look bad. If you make
• 5:15
  Speaker 7: us look bad, we're going to have a problem. You're
• 5:18
  Speaker 7: going to have a problem, not me. I'm going to
• 5:20
  Speaker 7: make you have a problem. So conversely, you have the
• 5:24
  Speaker 7: Secret Service, where nothing like that happened. Despite, ultimately, they
• 5:33
  Speaker 7: failed at their job. Now, I'm going to go through
• 5:37
  Speaker 7: some things here today when it comes to expectations of
• 5:41
  Speaker 7: presidential protection in the early 60s. A lot of presidents
• 5:51
  Speaker 7: get death threats. A lot of them do. And even
• 5:57
  Speaker 7: back in the 60s, pretty much every major city had
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: a local Secret Service office. you know, to help out
• 6:08
  Speaker 7: and coordinate things with the local authorities when presidents would
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: come and either speak at events or hold meetings or
• 6:22
  Speaker 7: come to talk to the people, do motorcades, things like this.
• 6:27
  Speaker 7: And it's kind of out of our realm of comprehension
• 6:32
  Speaker 7: in today's day and age because Presidents just don't do
• 6:37
  Speaker 7: that anymore, but you have to remember the times that
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: we're talking about here. Not everybody had a TV, right?
• 6:45
  Speaker 7: Not everybody had a radio. Not everybody lived in big cities.
• 6:50
  Speaker 7: Not everybody got the newspaper. So if you were running
• 6:56
  Speaker 7: for office back then, it would behoove you to go
• 7:01
  Speaker 7: out and meet the people. Be visible. Be visible. Be
• 7:05
  Speaker 7: somewhere that you can be seen and be heard and
• 7:08
  Speaker 7: have the media cover it. This was their only way
• 7:14
  Speaker 7: to actually connect with the people of the United States.
• 7:18
  Speaker 7: You've got to remember, the United States is a big
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: effing country. There's 50 states. It's 3,000 plus miles from
• 7:30
  Speaker 7: coast to coast. 2,000 miles border to border. And that
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: is a lot of square footage, folks. A lot. And
• 7:44
  Speaker 7: there's a lot of moving parts to this. So if
• 7:46
  Speaker 7: you're running for election or you're running for re-election, you know,
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: you want to focus on the spots where you're not popular. Where,
• 7:57
  Speaker 7: you know, maybe you can swing some votes your way.
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: You don't want to waste time going somewhere where you're
• 8:05
  Speaker 7: already beloved, you already have the majority vote, you want
• 8:10
  Speaker 7: to try to sway those voters who are either on
• 8:14
  Speaker 7: the fence or diametrically opposed to you. And we've all
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: heard the adage that JFK was the first television president
• 8:30
  Speaker 7: and he was mainly elected because of the televised presidential
• 8:35
  Speaker 7: debate with Richard Nixon, who was all sweaty, nervous looking,
• 8:40
  Speaker 7: and JFK was, you know, calm, cool, and collected, funny. And,
• 8:45
  Speaker 7: you know, you can win people over by just the
• 8:50
  Speaker 7: impression that they get the first time that you see someone.
• 8:56
  Speaker 7: It's something totally different to hear somebody on the radio
• 9:00
  Speaker 7: or to hear somebody being interviewed then to actually see
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: them and see them how they answer questions, see how
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: they react to different things that are said, see how
• 9:12
  Speaker 7: they react to pressure, difficult things. And a lot of
• 9:17
  Speaker 7: that is what helped Kennedy get elected in 1960. So
• 9:23
  Speaker 7: we're still in the area of the president needing to
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: do stuff like this. Now, as time goes on, As
• 9:33
  Speaker 7: the television becomes more popular and popular and the media
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: grows and grows and grows, more publications, more news channels,
• 9:41
  Speaker 7: more TV channels, more newspapers, more radio stations, they don't
• 9:53
  Speaker 7: need to do all of that anymore. They can get
• 9:56
  Speaker 7: their message across and be seen and be heard. without
• 10:00
  Speaker 7: having to go out in public and make these difficult
• 10:04
  Speaker 7: public appearances. But here we are. It's 1963. JFK is
• 10:11
  Speaker 7: running for re-election. And Dallas, well, you know, Texas was
• 10:17
  Speaker 7: a problem. Dallas in particular, right? They had earned the
• 10:25
  Speaker 7: moniker the City of Hate for a reason. As recently
• 10:30
  Speaker 7: as October 24th, 1963, when Adlai Stevens visited, he was
• 10:40
  Speaker 7: spit on, jeered at, jostled around, and Mayor Earl Cabell
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: specifically called out in the newspaper and on on the
• 10:56
  Speaker 7: news that the president's visit would be a chance for
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: the citizens of Dallas to redeem themselves and finally shed
• 11:05
  Speaker 7: this moniker of, you know, the capital of hate in
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: Dixie in the South. And Chief Curry, the mayor, the governor,
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: all ahead of time, before the assassination, before the president's visit,
• 11:26
  Speaker 7: called on the citizens of Dallas to have a modicum
• 11:33
  Speaker 7: of appropriateness, be civil. You know, hey, you might not
• 11:38
  Speaker 7: like the guy, you might not agree with the guy,
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: but there's no reason to go running through the crowds,
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: spitting on people, getting in fights, hooping and hollering, this, that,
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: and the other, trying to disrupt things. You know, that's
• 11:53
  Speaker 7: like kid shit. So let's act like we're grown-ups. We
• 11:56
  Speaker 7: can have discussions about things, but act like you have
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: some sense, basically. People, please. But we'll touch more on
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: that here in a little bit. But back to the
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: actual topic at hand here, and that is Secret Service
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: protection in the early 60s. Now, In 1963, Secret Service
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: protocols for protecting the president during a motorcade emphasized the
• 12:27
  Speaker 7: balance between security and public visibility. Because again, the president
• 12:34
  Speaker 7: wants to be seen. Or whoever is riding in a
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: motorcade that is important, that is running for office, they
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: want to be seen by all those people that took
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: the time to come down and see them that are
• 12:48
  Speaker 7: lining the streets. But you also have to have security too.
• 12:52
  Speaker 7: So it's a fine line. They were flexible. They evolved
• 12:57
  Speaker 7: from practice rather than a rigid published manual. So there
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: was no black and white leather bound copy of a
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: Secret Service manual for presidential protection during a motorcade. They
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: basically did the best they could. They learned from their
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: mistakes and they evolved over time. to include different things. Now,
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: the motorcades were also heavily influenced by the president's preferences.
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: Crowd conditions, speed, how much local support from the local
• 13:35
  Speaker 7: police that they were going to be getting, and the
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: need to keep the motorcade moving. These procedures are documented
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: in detail in the Warren Commission Report, Chapter 2, which
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: we'll look at here in a second, and related agent
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: statements exhibits from the period based on the Dallas trip
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: and standard practices. Now, the Secret Service arrangements for presidential
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: trips were designed to provide as much protection as feasible
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: while allowing large numbers of people to see the president.
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: There was advance work done. An advance agent from the
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: White House detail coordinated with the local Secret Service field office,
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: local police, and others. This covered route selection, site security,
• 14:22
  Speaker 7: threat checks via protective research section of the Secret Service,
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: the PRS, coordination with local law enforcement and other federal
• 14:32
  Speaker 7: agencies like the FBI, and preventive measures against known threats.
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: Routes preferred those allowing reasonable speeds and avoiding unusual hazards.
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: Political considerations for maximum exposure often shaped the final path
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: of the motorcade. Now, when putting a motorcade together, again,
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: there's no manual for it, but regular practice would be
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: to have police motorcycles, first and foremost, a line of them,
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: running the edges of the streets. And making sure people
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: knew to stay the fuck off the street. Stay on
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: the sidewalk. Stay back. Alright, so that's your first clue
• 15:21
  Speaker 7: that something's coming. You got some motorcycles running the edges.
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: Then after that would be a pilot car. A pilot car. Now,
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: in Dallas that day. The pilot car was a white
• 15:41
  Speaker 7: Ford sedan provided by the DPD, Dallas Police, and they
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: drove ahead of the main party behind an initial group
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: of motorcycle officers roughly a quarter of a mile ahead
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: of the lead car, which we'll get to in a second.
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: Their role, the pilot car, their role of alerting police
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: along the route that the motorcade was approaching and also
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: to check for signs of trouble. Now, we know that
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: the Dallas police had officers stationed all along the motorcade
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: route at most intersections, even on the overpass. So, when
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: this pilot car is coming up, it is full of
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: Dallas police officers. And they have radio capability. And Their
• 16:40
  Speaker 7: job is to alert other folks along the parade route
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: and the Secret Service for signs of trouble. And in
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: this pilot car, we have Deputy Police Chief George Lumpkin.
• 17:05
  Speaker 7: He was driving, Lummi Lumpkin. We also have Dallas Police
• 17:10
  Speaker 7: Detective Billy Senkel, Dallas Police Detective F.M. Turner, and Lieutenant
• 17:17
  Speaker 7: Colonel George Whitmire, U.S. Army Reserve East Texas Section Commander,
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: Local Army Reserve Unit Commander. And in some cases, there
• 17:31
  Speaker 7: was also someone listed as Jacob Jack Puderbaugh, who was
• 17:36
  Speaker 7: a White House Democratic National Committee advance man as a
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: fifth occupant of the pilot car. Now, the pilot car
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: is distinctly different from the lead car. The lead car
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: is known as the rolling command car, and it's immediately
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: ahead of the presidential limousine. This car was driven by
• 18:05
  Speaker 7: Police Chief Jesse Curry and occupied by Secret Service Agents
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: Winston Lawson and Forrest Sorrells plus Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker.
• 18:17
  Speaker 7: So this is your swinging dick car. You got the
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: DPD Chief. You got the Sheriff. You've got the head
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: of Dallas Secret Service and the main guy from Washington, D.C.
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: Secret Service, Winn Lawson. So back to the schematic here.
• 18:42
  Speaker 7: So after the lead car with the occupants that I
• 18:45
  Speaker 7: just told you about being Jesse Curry, Bill Decker, Winn Lawson,
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: and Forrest Sorrells. Then we have the presidential limousine where
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: you have a Secret Service driver and also a very
• 19:00
  Speaker 7: experienced agent in the right front seat. Now it's very
• 19:04
  Speaker 7: important that you have an OG OG guy, secret service
• 19:11
  Speaker 7: guy in that front passenger seat because he doesn't have
• 19:16
  Speaker 7: to worry about driving. But what he's doing is he's
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: on the radio. He's scanning and positioning near the president
• 19:25
  Speaker 7: at stops. Um, this limousine had jump seats for additional
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: passengers and an optional Not bulletproof, plastic bubble top. The fishbowl.
• 19:40
  Speaker 7: You know, a lot of people say, well, you know,
• 19:41
  Speaker 7: if he had that bubble top on, you know, it
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: might have changed things. Well, maybe. But again, it wasn't bulletproof.
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: It was just plastic. But it could have deflected impending shots.
• 19:58
  Speaker 7: But it definitely wouldn't have stopped them. Now, directly behind
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: the presidential limousine, we have the follow-up car, which was
• 20:06
  Speaker 7: an open convertible. Immediately behind, carrying multiple agents, typically two
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: up front, two in the rear seats, and then four
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: on the running boards, two on each side. Weapons available,
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: pistols were standard, shotguns, automatic rifles accessible. These agents scanned crowds, windows, roofs, overpasses, etc.
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: But again, they're behind the president, so by the time
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: they might see something, it's probably too late. Then behind them,
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: you have the vice president car and follow-up. Then the press,
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: VIP vehicles, buses, etc. Local police motorcycles typically flanking the
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: presidential car. And those positions changed for space and crowds. Now,
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: in some pictures from November 22, 1963, you do see
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: Clint Hill riding on the back of the limousine. You know,
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: it's a fucking cool looking picture. You know what I mean?
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: He's like hanging on the back of this bitch, standing
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: on the bumper. There's handles on the trunk to hold
• 21:16
  Speaker 7: on to. And he's kind of like, you know, it's
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: almost like he's surfing. He's just kind of like crouched down.
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: He's holding on, you know, his suit's flapping in the
• 21:26
  Speaker 7: wind and he's got his shades on. He's just hanging
• 21:29
  Speaker 7: back there, right? And people say, well, why didn't they
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: just ride there the whole time? Well, that wasn't the plan.
• 21:39
  Speaker 7: The plan was, okay, so the plan was for four motorcycle,
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: Dallas motorcycle cops to flank the left and right rears
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: of the limousine. Now, when something happens along the motorcade
• 21:59
  Speaker 7: route to where any of these motorcycles get off course
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: or they have to stop or something happens, That is
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: when the guys from the Secret Service follow-up car can
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: run up and assume that left or rear right flank
• 22:18
  Speaker 7: position to basically put a body in between the President
• 22:24
  Speaker 7: or First Lady from those angles. So when we see
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: pictures of Clint Hill riding on the back of the
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: limo for a short period of time on November 22nd,
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: something happened to those left rear right flanking motorcycles to
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: where he had to get up and get on the bumper.
• 22:44
  Speaker 7: Don't know exactly what happened. They could have ran into
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: an issue in the crowd. What have you before that?
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: I don't know. But I'm just giving you the basic
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: rundown of how these things were set up and why
• 22:59
  Speaker 7: we see happen what happened. So there was a lot
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: of flexibility when it came to agents in the motorcade.
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: And a lot of it is based around the motorcade speed.
• 23:20
  Speaker 7: How fast is the limo traveling? How much of an
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: escort you got, the crowd size, whether you have a
• 23:28
  Speaker 7: hostile crowd or a friendly crowd, uh, police control of it. And,
• 23:37
  Speaker 7: the president's desires or instructions. You know, regardless of nowadays,
• 23:44
  Speaker 7: back then the president could override the Secret Service, even
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: if at the detriment of his own protection. You know,
• 23:53
  Speaker 7: if the president said, we're not putting this bubble top on, well,
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: that bubble top didn't go on. Okay? If he said,
• 24:02
  Speaker 7: I don't want you assholes riding on the back of
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: the car, they didn't ride on the back of the car.
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: there was always an experienced agent in the front seat,
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: like I said, of the president car and also one
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: OG secret service guy in the follow-up car, either in
• 24:23
  Speaker 7: the front seat or on the front right running board.
• 24:27
  Speaker 7: Agents on the follow-up car's running boards had authority via
• 24:31
  Speaker 7: signals and radio to take positions around the presidential car
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: when needed. Special steps handles existed on the president's limousine
• 24:38
  Speaker 7: rear corners for agents, but presidents, including Kennedy, frequently preferred
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: agents not to ride them continuously during a motorcade for
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: appearance reasons of accessibility to the public. Agents would move
• 24:53
  Speaker 7: up as needed when the car slowed, stopped, or crowds
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: pressed in. So again, It was not designed, or Kennedy
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: did not want agents riding on the back of the
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: limousine throughout the motorcade because it was kind of a
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: bad look. Now, during the motorcade, there was an effort
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: to keep moving, as in not stopping, keep moving at
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: a reasonable pace to avoid unscheduled stops, though the president
• 25:25
  Speaker 7: could and did order stops to greet people. He would say, hey,
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: slow down up there. I want to say hi to
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: the people. And the limiter would stop briefly. The president would,
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: you know, wave and stuff at the crowd. And then
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: they would proceed. You know, it was a good look. Hey,
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: the president stopped and actually waved to us. You know,
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: he wasn't an asshole. It wasn't like he was going
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: by at 20 miles an hour. It was like, hey.
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: When slowing or stopping. or crowds interfered with motorcycle position,
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: agents from the follow-up car moved forward to stand between
• 26:04
  Speaker 7: the president and the public. That's what I was alluding
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: to about getting on the back of the limousine. But
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: they didn't actually have to get on the limousine. If
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: the car stopped, they could just get off the follow-up
• 26:13
  Speaker 7: car and stand at certain angles to be able to
• 26:17
  Speaker 7: bodily protect the president. Agents were instructed to watch for
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: thrown objects, sudden crowd movements, movements toward the car, and
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: also to scan buildings, windows, roofs, and overpasses. Radio communications
• 26:39
  Speaker 7: linked key vehicles together, the sites they were coming from
• 26:44
  Speaker 7: and going to, and also aircraft. Local police handled much
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: of the traffic control, crowd management, and some building overpass
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: coverage under Secret Service coordinations. building checks along routes were
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: not routine for ordinary motorcades. This was more typical for
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: big events like inaugurations, foreign heads of state visiting, or
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: long known routes. So again, checking buildings in Dallas, when
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: you hear certain people like, oh, you know, Fletcher Prouty, say, ah,
• 27:25
  Speaker 7: They should have been coming through there with 106th Military
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: Intelligence Group to bolster up the Secret Service. They would
• 27:34
  Speaker 7: have went in through all these buildings, went up from
• 27:37
  Speaker 7: top to bottom, searched them, closed all the windows and
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: locked the doors, welded the manhole covers shut, placed guys
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: on top of the rooftops, snipers all along the motorcade route. No,
• 27:48
  Speaker 7: they didn't do that shit. They did not do that shit.
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: Fletcher Prouty is full of shit. Full of it. Full
• 27:59
  Speaker 7: of it, full of it, full of it, full of it,
• 28:00
  Speaker 7: full of it, full of it. Well, not just this,
• 28:04
  Speaker 7: but a whole lot of other stuff, but I digress. So,
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: let's take a wander for a second here and talk
• 28:15
  Speaker 7: about that for a second, because when you hear that, Oh, well,
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: the Secret Service, they normally would have called up the
• 28:25
  Speaker 7: 112th and gotten back up, you know, and all this. And,
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: you know, in your mind's eye, you're kind of imagining
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: like an entire military unit of hundreds of dudes in fatigues,
• 28:40
  Speaker 7: you know, shutting streets down, putting up barricades, lining the
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: motorcade route, having, you know, their guns. But that's not
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: what the 112th did either. I was shocked to find
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: out what they actually did. Now, did they augment security
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: for the president? So the 112th did assist the Secret
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: Service with domestic and foreign travel protections. including crowd control,
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: vetting persons of interest, communications, and counter-sniper observation. Personnel assigned
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: to these support details were authorized to wear civilian clothes
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: rather than military uniforms. Headquartered at Fort Sam, Houston, Texas,
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: the group operated multiple regional offices such as in Dallas
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: and New Orleans. They coordinated local background checks, surveillance of
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: potential domestic threat groups, and intelligence sharing with local police
• 29:50
  Speaker 7: and the FBI. During President John F. Kennedy's trip to Dallas,
• 29:56
  Speaker 7: personnel from the 112th Intelligence Corps Group were active in
• 29:59
  Speaker 7: the area, leading to significant subsequent investigation by the Warren
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: Commission about this, and congressional review regarding interagency intelligence sharing
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: and security coordination failures. Now, we know Army intelligence figures
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: were present in Dallas that day, In Dealey Plaza that day.
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: As a matter of fact. But also in Dallas. But
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: in plain clothes. So. We'll come back to that in
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: a minute. Because the reality. Of the 112th group. And
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: what they actually. Did. Is interesting. Now, people have always speculated, well,
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: how did the Dallas police find out so much about
• 30:58
  Speaker 7: Lee Harvey Oswald immediately after the assassination? Rumor has it
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: they got a lot of this information about Lee Harvey
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: Oswald from the 112th because there had been a file
• 31:14
  Speaker 7: created on him. And remember, I just told you that
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: the 112th out of Fort Sam Houston covered the Dallas area. Well,
• 31:23
  Speaker 7: they also covered the New Orleans area. And at some point,
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: either from the New Orleans PD, somebody there, the military
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: intelligence contacts in the New Orleans PD, or from the
• 31:39
  Speaker 7: FBI who interviewed Oswald there as well, somehow this file,
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: because he was linked to a subversive group in a
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: somewhat almost violent altercation, his file made it to the 112th,
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: his arrest file from New Orleans. So they knew a
• 32:02
  Speaker 7: lot about him pretty quickly because they already had this
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: information in their files. The Dallas Police Department was full
• 32:14
  Speaker 7: of And look, you can call them military intelligence contacts
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: if you want to, but you've got to remember, most
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: men back in the 40s and 50s, growing up, 30s, 40s, 50s,
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: entered some form of the armed services at some point
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: in their life. Most of them did. Now, of course,
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: there was a draft in World War II. But a
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: lot of people voluntarily signed up. So when you say
• 32:57
  Speaker 7: there's this military intelligence network, well, no, it's just a
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: lot of these motherfuckers were either former military that still
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: had contacts with military intelligence. And it just makes sense
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: that they could help each other out. in the context
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: of information sharing, you know, and it doesn't have to
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: be an official thing. You know, if Bob over here
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: who works in the DPD knows Joe over here, who's, uh,
• 33:29
  Speaker 7: just decided to become a lifer in the army and
• 33:33
  Speaker 7: he's high up and he needs a favor. Hey man,
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: y'all got anything on, uh, this Lee Harvey Oswald guy.
• 33:40
  Speaker 7: Let me check our files. I'll get back to you. Oh,
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: as a matter of fact, Bob, we do. Here it is.
• 33:47
  Speaker 7: I'll send a courier ASAP, but here's the basics. You know,
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: it didn't have to be anything formal. A lot of
• 33:57
  Speaker 7: these guys knew each other. There was a network, a
• 34:01
  Speaker 7: military intelligence, domestic intelligence network. These guys that knew each other.
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: They were familiar with each other, friendly with each other,
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: and they worked with each other. So, But back to
• 34:18
  Speaker 7: presidential protection. Now, specific agent protocols and instructions for the
• 34:28
  Speaker 7: Dallas motorcade. Agents in the lead and follow-up cars. So,
• 34:37
  Speaker 7: this is the car in front of Kennedy's limousine and
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: the car behind Kennedy's limousine. And in the car ahead
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: of Kennedy's limousine, remember, we have Forrest Sorrells and Winston Lawson,
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: two higher echelon Secret Service guys swinging dicks who know
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: what to do. Their job is to watch the route
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: for trouble. Scan the crowds, windows, roofs of buildings. overpasses,
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: and crossings. Pay particular attention to thrown objects, sudden crowd actions,
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: or movements toward the car. Dallas-specific assignments and instructions were
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: consistent with broader 1963 Secret Service practice for city motorcades.
• 35:44
  Speaker 7: And these were adapted to the route, which was from
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: Love Field through downtown via Main Street to Houston Street
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: to Elm Street to the Trademark. Pretty simple route. From
• 35:59
  Speaker 7: the airport up Main Street, you make a right on
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: Houston for a hot minute, a left on Elm Street,
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: and you're out of the main city and moving on
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: towards the Trademark. So again, it wasn't a very long
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: parade route. Now, I put most of the blame on
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: this lead car and the pilot car. But mostly on
• 36:41
  Speaker 7: the lead car. The pilot car, again, is full of
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: Dallas police detectives. They're not trained in presidential protection. But
• 36:51
  Speaker 7: they get the gist of it. But the lead car,
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: they're the ones that are directly in front of the
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: president's limousine. Now, Why didn't. And again. It's their job.
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: To scan. Buildings. Windows. Crowd control. Things being thrown at
• 37:28
  Speaker 7: the limousine. Whether they're friendly. Like roses. Or not friendly.
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: Like rocks. Bottles. Molotov cocktails, grenades, what have you. Now,
• 37:45
  Speaker 7: as they're coming down Houston Street towards Elm, the depository
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: is right there in front of you. And I mean
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: right there in front of you. You mean to tell
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: me that if there was a rifle on the sixth
• 38:04
  Speaker 7: floor of that building, that it did not come out
• 38:08
  Speaker 7: of that window until after the president's car turned onto
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: Elm Street. So if you have a scope on a
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: rifle and you are up on the sixth floor and
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: you're waiting for the presidential motorcade to come, do you
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: already know that maybe you're not going to take that
• 38:34
  Speaker 7: shot on Houston street and you're going to wait for
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: it to turn as, as it's going away from you
• 38:41
  Speaker 7: on Elm street to take the shot where there's possibly
• 38:44
  Speaker 7: a tree in the way. I can't help but think
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: that you would be alerted to the fact, thanks to
• 38:59
  Speaker 7: the motorcycles, the pilot car and lead car coming that
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: the presidential election, is coming. And as soon as that
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: thing rounds the corner, you don't have that scope up
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: to your eyes to at least see what's going on.
• 39:16
  Speaker 7: But in order to look through that scope, you have
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: to point that rifle in that direction. And maybe you
• 39:22
  Speaker 7: have a good shot there, maybe you don't. I've tried
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: it in the video game. And it's very hard when
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: you have a moving target coming towards you that is
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: below you to track. It's very hard to track. I
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: can see why he waited until it turned on the
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: elm and it's going away. It's much easier to track
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: coming up than it is to going down. If the
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: car is coming towards you, you have to keep tracking
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: down at an angle. And from the corner that the
• 40:01
  Speaker 7: sniper was allegedly in, he's in a difficult spot, basically,
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: to do that. But one would think that they had cops,
• 40:14
  Speaker 7: Dallas police cops, at the corner of Elm and Houston,
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: and then across the street at the intersection in front
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: of the Dallas County Records building and the Dow Techs,
• 40:32
  Speaker 7: there was another cop posted up over there. There was
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: two cops on the overpass. Plus you have the pilot car,
• 40:44
  Speaker 7: the lead car, these motorcycle cops, And nobody looked up
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: at the school book depository and noticed anything. Now, I'm
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: not saying it was out of the ordinary to have
• 41:00
  Speaker 7: people hanging out of open windows, but because you did
• 41:05
  Speaker 7: see that all along the motorcade route. I mean, look
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: at the Dow Tech. There's people hanging out the window.
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: Not so much the county records building, but there are
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: open windows there. And then even on the Texas School
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: Book Depository, you have three guys hanging out the windows
• 41:28
  Speaker 7: on the fifth floor. So would your eye be drawn
• 41:32
  Speaker 7: up even further to a partially open window with some
• 41:37
  Speaker 7: possible reflective material bouncing off of the sun? I don't know.
• 41:42
  Speaker 7: It's hard to say. But Whoever, if there was a
• 41:49
  Speaker 7: sniper up on the sixth floor, he eluded from view
• 41:55
  Speaker 7: all of the DPD based on the ground, all of
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: the military intelligence based on the ground, which we'll get
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: to in a second, the lead car, the pilot car,
• 42:09
  Speaker 7: and the follow-up car. All of these Secret Service agents
• 42:12
  Speaker 7: didn't see nothing until it was too late. That is
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: why I'm saying that you can put the blame for
• 42:25
  Speaker 7: Kennedy's death at the feet of the Secret Service. Yet
• 42:28
  Speaker 7: nothing was done to reprimand responsibility. Because look, a lot
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: of people dropped the ball that day for the Secret Service.
• 42:43
  Speaker 7: Including the upper echelon of swinging dicks. Down to the agents.
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: And again, look, it wasn't like the Secret Service was
• 42:52
  Speaker 7: traveling with a couple hundred people deep. The presidential detail
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: was fairly small. Probably not more than 15 agents. And
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: then you may have had some help from the local
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: field office. Maybe they had two or three agents.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 43:13
  Speaker 7: Something like that. But they did coordinate things with the
• 43:19
  Speaker 7: Dallas Police Department. Curry brought in 100 off-duty reserve officers
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: to bolster the Dallas PD presence in Dallas that day,
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: which was more than enough. But let's go back and
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: talk about the 112th for a minute because you always hear, right? That, oh,
• 43:50
  Speaker 7: you know, that whoever called the Secret Service and the
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: Secret Service told them they weren't needed and all this stuff.
• 44:01
  Speaker 7: And you always hear this stuff in your head about,
• 44:03
  Speaker 7: or you think about, you know, this giant military unit
• 44:08
  Speaker 7: moving in, fatigues, hundreds of guys. Not true. So let
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: me show you. Let me show you what I'm talking
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: about here. Now, this comes from the ARRB, and they're
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: talking about Army intelligence in Dallas. The general background, real quick, though.
• 44:38
  Speaker 7: The Army's 1963 organizational scheme, which was the 48 contiguous states,
• 44:43
  Speaker 7: were divided into six military regions. each of which was
• 44:47
  Speaker 7: controlled by a numbered army headquarters. These are also called
• 44:51
  Speaker 7: the U.S. Armies or the Continental U.S. Armies, and today
• 44:54
  Speaker 7: are generally abbreviated with the acronym CANUSES. The six CANUSES
• 44:59
  Speaker 7: collectively came under the authority of the Continental Army Command,
• 45:02
  Speaker 7: the CONARC headquartered at Fort Monroe in Virginia. The states
• 45:07
  Speaker 7: of Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico fell under
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: the Fourth Army. which had its headquarters at Fort Sam
• 45:17
  Speaker 7: Houston in San Antonio, Texas. The 4th Army, like the
• 45:21
  Speaker 7: other Canooses, was a peacetime administrative headquarters that supervised those
• 45:26
  Speaker 7: units and activities in its assigned area that were not
• 45:30
  Speaker 7: immediately deployable for combat. For example, the 4th Army supervised
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: reserve and training units throughout its realm. It generally had
• 45:42
  Speaker 7: no authority over the 2nd Armored Division which was a
• 45:46
  Speaker 7: high-readiness combat unit stationed at Fort Hood, Texas. Combat-ready units
• 45:51
  Speaker 7: like the 2nd Armored Division, regardless of their geographical location,
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: ultimately belonged to the U.S. Strike Command headquartered at MacDill
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: Air Force Base in Florida. The Army uses essentially the
• 46:02
  Speaker 7: same system as today, though the headquarter titles are different. Alright,
• 46:08
  Speaker 7: so we're going to scroll down here a little bit
• 46:11
  Speaker 7: to where it matters. The 112th Intelligence Corps Group was
• 46:18
  Speaker 7: directly subordinate to the 4th Army, and in fact its
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: headquarters was virtually side-by-side the 4th Army's at Fort Sam Houston.
• 46:25
  Speaker 7: This unit originally came into being in 1946 as a
• 46:28
  Speaker 7: counterintelligence detachment with an initial strength of a whopping 16 officers,
• 46:34
  Speaker 7: 6 warrant officers, and 26 enlisted men. During its early
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: years at Fort Sam Houston, it was fully integrated into
• 46:43
  Speaker 7: 4th Army's G2 Intelligence Section. The 112th' s headquarters were in
• 46:48
  Speaker 7: the G2 offices, and personnel from the 112th constituted the
• 46:52
  Speaker 7: security branch within the G2. The detachment was given its
• 46:57
  Speaker 7: own separate office in 1949 and enlarged to a counterintelligence
• 47:02
  Speaker 7: group in 1957. It was renamed the 112th in 1961,
• 47:05
  Speaker 7: though it went by the cover name the, quote, Fourth U.S.
• 47:11
  Speaker 7: Army Operations Group until July of 62. Its official mission
• 47:17
  Speaker 7: was to contribute to the operations of the Fourth U.S.
• 47:20
  Speaker 7: Army through the detection of treason, sedition, subversive activity, highly
• 47:25
  Speaker 7: Harvey Oswald, and espionage and sabotage within or directed against
• 47:31
  Speaker 7: the Fourth U.S. Army and the area of its jurisdiction.
• 47:37
  Speaker 7: So there you have that. So in 1963, the 112th
• 47:45
  Speaker 7: had approximately 300 military personnel and 25 civilians assigned to it.
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: In addition to the group headquarters, these people manned seven
• 47:57
  Speaker 7: regional offices. Region 1, Fort Sam Houston. Region 2, Dallas. 3,
• 48:03
  Speaker 7: El Paso. 4, Houston. 5, New Orleans. 6, Little Rock.
• 48:09
  Speaker 7: And 7, Oklahoma City. Now, these regional offices frequently had
• 48:13
  Speaker 7: smaller resident sub-offices in outlying areas. For example, the Dallas
• 48:18
  Speaker 7: Regional Office at one time or another supervised offices in Abilene, Amarillo, Texarkana,
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: and Tyler. With the New Orleans Regional Office had residents
• 48:28
  Speaker 7: in Baton Rouge, Lake Charles, Leesville, and Shrevesport. Most resident
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: offices were manned by one or two people. The 112th
• 48:38
  Speaker 7: was inactivated, disbanded on June 30, 1974, and all of
• 48:43
  Speaker 7: its personnel and equipment transferred to other units. Now, out
• 48:50
  Speaker 7: of 300 military personnel and 25 civilians assigned to the
• 48:57
  Speaker 7: 112th in 1963, they were spread out between seven regional offices. So,
• 49:08
  Speaker 7: let me pull out my handy dandy calculator here. And
• 49:14
  Speaker 7: divide 300 by 7 that is roughly 42 people if
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: you were to divide up the manpower military personnel wise
• 49:27
  Speaker 7: between these 7 regional offices so out of these 42
• 49:34
  Speaker 7: military personnel roughly in each of these regions you also
• 49:42
  Speaker 7: have 25 civilians divvied up so if you divide 25
• 49:47
  Speaker 7: by 7 you get roughly 3 to 4 so at
• 49:54
  Speaker 7: each of these regions in different states you have roughly
• 49:59
  Speaker 7: roughly 40 military personnel and 3 or 4 civilians that's
• 50:05
  Speaker 7: not a lot folks It's not a lot. And out
• 50:10
  Speaker 7: of those guys, who knows how many are sent out
• 50:18
  Speaker 7: to the field when needed. Some guys might be sick.
• 50:23
  Speaker 7: Some guys might be working. Again, remember the 112th was
• 50:31
  Speaker 7: covering non-deployable personnel. non-deployable personnel. A lot of reservists were
• 50:45
  Speaker 7: part of the 112th Military Intelligence Group, and not all
• 50:52
  Speaker 7: of them are available at all hours every day. So,
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: even though they might be called to help out or
• 51:03
  Speaker 7: supplement the Secret Service and Presidential Protection, It's not a lot.
• 51:11
  Speaker 7: It's not a lot of guys. And we do run
• 51:15
  Speaker 7: into some of these guys being in Dallas on the
• 51:20
  Speaker 7: 22nd of November. In civilian clothes. Which means they're swinging dicks.
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: Swinging dicks. Swinging dicks. So let's take a look at
• 51:39
  Speaker 7: an article from our buddy, Mr. Larry Hancock, who I
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: trust has done his due diligence and homework when it
• 51:54
  Speaker 7: comes to diving into all this stuff, right? Now there's
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: a lot of things, You have James Powell, who took
• 52:13
  Speaker 7: a photo of the school book depository. You have a
• 52:17
  Speaker 7: Colonel Robert Jones, who is of the 112th, a G2 officer.
• 52:23
  Speaker 7: You also have Warrant Officer Ed Coyle in Dallas, meeting
• 52:28
  Speaker 7: with Hostie the morning of the 22nd. Right? So, let's
• 52:35
  Speaker 7: take a look at what Larry has to say. And Oh, look,
• 52:41
  Speaker 7: this is a JFK-Lancer publication from the Kennedy Assassination Chronicles,
• 52:46
  Speaker 7: Volume 7, Issue 4. Something that Lancer should still be doing,
• 52:52
  Speaker 7: other than having failed conferences. But I digress. I talked
• 52:57
  Speaker 7: about that last week, if you want to hear me
• 52:59
  Speaker 7: bitch about that more. But according to Larry Hancock, a
• 53:07
  Speaker 7: lot of these statements that these individuals make are totally
• 53:11
  Speaker 7: at odds with each other. And how do we know
• 53:15
  Speaker 7: certain things? So, intelligence spot reports transmitted from the 112th
• 53:21
  Speaker 7: in Dallas to their headquarters in San Antonio and relayed
• 53:24
  Speaker 7: to other government organizations. They give us a picture of
• 53:27
  Speaker 7: the type of information that the 112th was collecting in Dallas,
• 53:31
  Speaker 7: its sources within the DPD, and they allow us to
• 53:34
  Speaker 7: judge the quality and effect of this information. So what
• 53:38
  Speaker 7: we see in the Dallas reports and the information relayed
• 53:40
  Speaker 7: by Colonel Jones shows the unit to have been involved
• 53:43
  Speaker 7: in intelligence collection, not protective service, as maintained by the
• 53:49
  Speaker 7: same Colonel Jones in his statements to the church and
• 53:52
  Speaker 7: House Select Committees. Just to highlight this over here in
• 53:56
  Speaker 7: the gray, spot reports give us a picture of the
• 53:59
  Speaker 7: type of information the 112th was collecting in Dallas. It's
• 54:03
  Speaker 7: DPD sources and shows the unit to have been involved
• 54:06
  Speaker 7: in intelligence collection and not protective services. Just to reiterate that, folks.
• 54:13
  Speaker 7: Just to reiterate that. But, let's go back over here
• 54:24
  Speaker 7: and take a look at the 316th INTC group. Again,
• 54:37
  Speaker 7: these personnel detachments had a strength of 38 people in 1963. Now,
• 54:45
  Speaker 7: why are we talking about the 316th here? Because this
• 54:50
  Speaker 7: is the one that actually helped supplement presidential protection when needed.
• 54:58
  Speaker 7: And this is the one mentioned by.
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: Mr. X or Prouty in the movie JFK ran by
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: Colonel Reich. Now Colonel Reich was interviewed by the ARRB
• 55:14
  Speaker 7: as was L liar Fletcher Prouty in the 90s and
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: a lot of the truth about things came out. So
• 55:26
  Speaker 7: when it comes to the 316th um It's a little different.
• 55:41
  Speaker 7: But the 316th day-to-day mission was to augment the 112th
• 55:45
  Speaker 7: Region 1 office that would be in Houston and to
• 55:49
  Speaker 7: shoulder part of its workload. So the 316th was in Houston,
• 55:53
  Speaker 7: not Dallas. Taken together with a separate organizational identity, this
• 55:58
  Speaker 7: explains why those actions are reported in Region 1 section
• 56:02
  Speaker 7: of the 112th group unit history, even though personnel from
• 56:07
  Speaker 7: the 316th are not listed on the roster of individuals
• 56:10
  Speaker 7: assigned to the 112th appended to that unit's history. Other
• 56:15
  Speaker 7: records reveal that officers were freely shifted back and forth
• 56:17
  Speaker 7: between the 112th and the 316th, further confirming that except
• 56:21
  Speaker 7: when the 316th was temporarily detached to participate in exercises,
• 56:25
  Speaker 7: the two units largely operated as a single functional entity.
• 56:29
  Speaker 7: A notable example of this is Colonel Rudolph Reich, who
• 56:32
  Speaker 7: commanded the 316th at the time of Kennedy's assassination. Before
• 56:36
  Speaker 7: taking command of the 316th in May of 63, Reich
• 56:39
  Speaker 7: had spent two years as a staff officer in the 112th,
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: serving first as the group intelligence officer and then as
• 56:46
  Speaker 7: its operations officer. The detachment was organized for combat duties
• 56:53
  Speaker 7: and so periodically went to participate in field training exercises
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: away from Fort Sam Houston. Two notable instances of this
• 57:02
  Speaker 7: were Exercise Swift Strike 3 in July of 63 and
• 57:06
  Speaker 7: Exercise Desert Strike in California in May of 64. While
• 57:10
  Speaker 7: the 316th went off on these exercises, it went as
• 57:13
  Speaker 7: a separate intact unit without the rest of the 112th.
• 57:19
  Speaker 7: Like the intelligence group of other Canooses, the 112th was
• 57:22
  Speaker 7: engaged in domestic surveillance in the early 60s, which is
• 57:26
  Speaker 7: why they had information on Lee Harvey Oswald. Region 5
• 57:32
  Speaker 7: appears to have been the most active in Louisiana, especially
• 57:35
  Speaker 7: with respect to civil rights clashes and fracases and demonstrations.
• 57:40
  Speaker 7: Due to their limited manpower resources and broad geographic responsibilities,
• 57:45
  Speaker 7: these intelligence groups had to rely heavily on newspaper accounts
• 57:48
  Speaker 7: and information forwarded from various law enforcement agencies to keep
• 57:53
  Speaker 7: their files up to date. Activities in the field of
• 57:59
  Speaker 7: CONUS intelligence included coverage of anti-Castro activities, minor racial problems,
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: and right-wing groups through public media and close liaison with
• 58:08
  Speaker 7: other agencies. This gathering in of data on political subversives
• 58:13
  Speaker 7: via newspaper clippings and information forwarded by local law enforcement
• 58:16
  Speaker 7: officials is presumably how Lee Harvey Oswald's actions in New
• 58:20
  Speaker 7: Orleans led to the creation of a personal dossier on
• 58:23
  Speaker 7: him by the 112th INTC group. So again, talking about
• 58:31
  Speaker 7: these spot reports. It says here that Coyle had such
• 58:44
  Speaker 7: a close relationship with Dallas FBI agent James Hostie that
• 58:48
  Speaker 7: Coyle warmly referred to him as Jimmy. Neither recalled any
• 58:55
  Speaker 7: contact whatever with the Secret Service. Reich, who before coming
• 58:59
  Speaker 7: the commander of the 316th, had been the 112th. So,
• 59:03
  Speaker 7: back to Colonel Jones, HSCA testimony. He appeared before the HSCA,
• 59:08
  Speaker 7: and it is a long one, folks. let me tell
• 59:10
  Speaker 7: you but he says that it had between 8 and
• 59:15
  Speaker 7: 12 plainclothes agents in Dealey Plaza which is a remarkable
• 59:20
  Speaker 7: assertion in light of the fact that no such military
• 59:23
  Speaker 7: presence had previously been noted by the Secret Service the
• 59:26
  Speaker 7: FBI or the Warren Commission Jones so impressed the committee
• 59:32
  Speaker 7: with his bearing and demeanor that Representative Dodd gushed at
• 59:36
  Speaker 7: the close of his testimony that, quote, you have been
• 59:38
  Speaker 7: an extremely responsive witness, extremely helpful. I wish that all
• 59:42
  Speaker 7: the witnesses we had were as competent, concise, detailed, and
• 59:45
  Speaker 7: as willing as you've been. The committee's final report found
• 59:49
  Speaker 7: Jones' testimony to be credible. Unfortunately, on closer examination, Jones
• 59:53
  Speaker 7: appears to have been something less than a credible witness.
• 59:56
  Speaker 7: His testimony contains many patent inaccuracies and misrepresentations, beginning with
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 7: what his job in the 112th actually was. Jones testified
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 7: that he had been, quote, operations officer for the 112th
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 7: Military Intelligence Group and served as the operations officer from
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 7: June 63 to 1 January 65. However, the unit history
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 7: for 6263 says that then-Lieutenant Colonel Robert Jones became the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 7: Group S-2 intelligence officer in August 63, And the operations
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: officer at the time of the assassination was actually a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 7: Lieutenant Colonel Stanley Greer. We confirm this by examining Jones
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 7: and Greer's official military records at the Military Personnel Records
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 7: Center in St. Louis. According to his personnel record, Jones
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 7: never served as the 112th Group's operations officer, though he
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: did move up to become the group executive officer in 1964. Again,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 7: maybe this is just a, you know, A mix-up of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 7: titles or what have you. Who knows? Who knows? But
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 7: it appears that Jones' misrepresentation of his duties was not
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 7: an isolated slip of the tongue. Well, there goes my theory.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 7: Since at other points during his testimony, he remarked that, quote,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 7: upon my assignment to 112, I was appointed the operations
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 7: officer for the entire group. And that, quote, I directed
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 7: the operations for the seven regions. nor was this an
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 7: inadvertent failure of memory. Two weeks before his sworn testimony,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 7: Jones told HSEA staffer Harold Leap during a preparatory interview
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 7: that he had actually been the 112th INT Group's chief
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 7: of intelligence, not its operations officer. So, I don't know.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 7: There's a lot of fookery going on here with the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 7: military intelligence aspects of all this. But again, not so
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 7: much with the presidential protection end of things. Now, to
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 7: cover that, Colonel Jones also told Leap in the prep
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 7: interview on April 4th, 1978, that the 112th routinely helped
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 7: the Secret Service. According to Leap's notes, Jones stated that
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 7: we normally assist the Secret Service upon request for protection
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 7: of the president. We've been looking through available Secret Service
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 7: trip surveys to ascertain the extent to which military personnel
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 7: were ever used to provide presidential security. Though the Secret
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 7: Service made extensive use of local law enforcement agencies wherever
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 7: the president went, it appears that military personnel regularly provided
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 7: security only when Air Force One was landing at a
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 7: military base or when the president was visiting a military
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 7: base or installation. In such cases, military personnel were included
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 7: in Secret Service security arrangements while he was on military property.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 7: In an ARRB interview, the former Director of Protective Research
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 7: for the Secret Service, Robert Bauk, stated that the only
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 7: time he recalled military personnel being used for presidential security
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 7: was in World War II. Likewise, Colonel Rudolph Reich, who
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 7: had been the 112th Operations Officer before assuming command of
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 7: the 316th, told us he could remember no occasion where
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 7: the 112th had ever assisted the Secret Service or otherwise
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 7: provided similar security. Again, so when you hear folks say,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 7: this is what should have happened, this is what could
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 7: have happened, this is what would have happened, you gotta
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 7: take that with a grain of salt. And I know
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 7: coming from somebody who has established themselves as somewhat of
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 7: a credible source of information in the community, thanks Oliver
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 7: Stone for putting this bullshit in your movie, but it
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 7: has become part of the conspiracy lore of the case.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 7: That for some reason, you know, the Secret Service never
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 7: asked for help with presidential protection. And then when their
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 7: services were offered, the Secret Service told them to go
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 7: pound sand. Well, it doesn't sound to me like they
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 7: ever did this in domestic city situations. They weren't needed.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 7: They didn't have that much personnel anyway to help, to
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 7: send to help with them, right? The local police had
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 7: more than enough resources To handle... The motorcade route protection.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 7: They were most familiar with their own city. The limitations of.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 7: What they could do. They had their pulse on the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 7: city's vibe, if you will.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: And....
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 7: Look, these military intelligence units were in touch with the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 7: local police departments.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: They.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 7: Provided information when requested by the DPD. Like if the
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 7: DPD said, hey, you got anything about any crazy assholes
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 7: over here in Dallas that might stir up some shit
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 7: during Kennedy's visit? That'd be great to know. But, you know, ultimately,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 7: the failure that day comes down to a Secret Service failure.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 7: And I don't know that they were ever in a
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 7: position to win.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Even.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 7: Kennedy that morning... told Kenny O'Donnell... Look, if the rain
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 7: stops in Dallas... the bubble top does not stay on
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 7: the car. And when Kenny O'Donnell said something... to the
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 7: effect of, well, that might not be a smart idea,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 7: you know, that Kennedy said something to the effect of, look,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 7: all anybody's got to do is get up in a
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 7: building with a telescopic rifle and take a shot, and
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 7: there's nothing we can do to stop it, whether there's
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 7: a bubble top on the car or not. So, you know,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 7: part of the deal was rolling the dice, hoping and
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 7: praying that that nobody took a shot at you, and
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 7: if they did, missed you and your family. And also
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 7: you put a lot of faith in the local authorities
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 7: to do their job, the Secret Service to do their job,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 7: and for everything to go according to plan. Most of
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 7: the time it does. 99.9% of the time it does,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 7: and everything's boring. And nothing happens. It's only when that
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 7: one thing happens. That. 1 % of something bad happening
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 7: that just changes everything. And I don't know if you're
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 7: ever ready for that to happen. I mean, these Secret
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 7: Service agents had never encountered anything like this before. You know,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 7: it's just... I can't mentally put myself in their shoes
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 7: to process the job duties. You know, I have to
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 7: take a bullet for this guy because that's my job. Boy,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 7: you better be paying me a lot of money and
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 7: have one hell of a life insurance policy for my
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 7: family to keep going when I'm gone. But, uh, I digress.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 7: I digress. You can lay this, essentially, at the feet
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 7: of the Secret Service. But do I blame them 100%? No.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 7: This is just one of those inevitable things that happened. And,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 7: you know, life comes down to a series of choices.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 7: And when you try to analyze the infinitesimal outcomes of
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 7: all of these infinite choices that each individual person can
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 7: take and then put that with every other person's infinite
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 7: choices that they can make or take and then it
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 7: just It hurts my brain. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Doesn't fucking matter.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 7: You have to deal with the fact that this happened
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 7: and make sure that it never happens again. Which it hasn't. Allegedly.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 7: Some close calls. But nothing entirely too successful. But I digress.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 7: Thank you for hanging out with me. These are just
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 7: some of my random research ramblings that I have. And
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 7: I hope you enjoyed them. And we'll see you here
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 7: next time.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: Peace.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: Hey there, pull up a chair. Rob's got a question
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: to share.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Started with a light red rod and a note and
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: a note and a margin thin Then a side road
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: turned to three more roads and here we go again.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: A photograph, a witness, a date that doesn't.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: Quite align One small fact becomes a winding track by
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: a quarter after nine.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: Random research, ramblings with a rock.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 6: From odd little facts to the big what ifs We'll
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 6: follow every tangent till the evidence slips Random research, ramblings
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 6: with Rob.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 8: Bring your questions, bring your curious thoughts.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Was it the grassy knoll or a file misfiled?
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: Rob's got a theory but he's checking them out No
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: final answers, just a notebook.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 8: And a grin Tuning for the question.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: And the rabbit hole within.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: Random research ramblings with Rob Where the side note is
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: where we begin