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Stephen Smith Homicide Reopened: 'DREAM TEAM ASSEMBLED, SEE PHOTOS' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In the last hours, we
0:15
Speaker 1: have obtained crime scene photos and yes, we are also
0:20
Speaker 1: calling it a crime scene from the early morning discovery
0:25
Speaker 1: of the body of teen boy Stephen Smith, and we're
0:29
Speaker 1: to go through those with you today. What if anything
0:33
Speaker 1: can we learn from these photos. At the same time,
0:38
Speaker 1: we learned that at the time a rape kit was
0:43
Speaker 1: ordered for teen boy Stephen Smith. Why in an alleged
0:49
Speaker 1: hit and run would a rape kit be ordered on
0:53
Speaker 1: a young male teen This as the items belonging to
0:57
Speaker 1: Alex Verlag and his family I've been auctioned off on
1:01
Speaker 1: the blot bringing in millions and in that treasure trove
1:06
Speaker 1: were photos that have been saved digitally, personal family photos.
1:17
Speaker 1: All the while the appeal is being tooled. As we speak,
1:22
Speaker 1: Alex Murnag wants out of jail. I mean, I see grace.
1:26
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:28
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and serious XM one eleven. For
1:32
Speaker 1: those of you that don't remember or have not heard it,
1:37
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's nine one one call in the middle of
1:41
Speaker 1: the night. Listen and it didn't road or on the
1:44
Speaker 1: side of the rule eating rule would rule bear all right?
1:52
Speaker 1: What's the name of combat number? A murder ran paper? Okay,
1:57
Speaker 1: all right, miss keeper? Can I get a phone number
1:59
Speaker 1: for you? Uh? I don't know them? Thought this formbo
2:04
Speaker 1: can call the number back going to work? Okay, but
2:07
Speaker 1: this is a good number to reach you back at Yeah, okay,
2:11
Speaker 1: all right, we're getting off the headed out that we
2:13
Speaker 1: see what's going on? Okay, r I ain't moving another
2:18
Speaker 1: that that but somebody boy eating it? Huh, all right
2:23
Speaker 1: boy eating all right, we're getting off the headed out
2:25
Speaker 1: that way. I only wondered if that was not the
2:27
Speaker 1: intention to leave Stephen Smith's body dead in the very
2:32
Speaker 1: middle of the road a back road in South Carolina,
2:36
Speaker 1: no street lights, no lighting nearby, so it would get
2:41
Speaker 1: run over again? Was that the intention? I was driven
2:45
Speaker 1: those roads, and they are as dark as you can imagine.
2:50
Speaker 1: If I were not in my car, I wouldn't been
2:52
Speaker 1: able to see my hand in front of my face.
2:55
Speaker 1: But take a listen to WCSC and the former South
2:59
Speaker 1: carol Line. A Highway patrol supervisor. Smith's car was found
3:03
Speaker 1: about three miles away on Bamberg Highway. It won't start,
3:06
Speaker 1: but investigators find his wallet inside the gas cap. Also unscrewed.
3:12
Speaker 1: His family reports he would have never left the car,
3:14
Speaker 1: calling him skittish, and his twin sister, Stephanie, also tells
3:18
Speaker 1: authorities that her brother had become very secretive about two
3:22
Speaker 1: weeks prior to the incident. As many accident investigations that
3:26
Speaker 1: have we that you know I've done along with the team,
3:30
Speaker 1: you know, we've done several pedestrians where they're hit by
3:33
Speaker 1: cars and have I've never seen wounds like this that
3:38
Speaker 1: come from a car. And it was evident and with
3:41
Speaker 1: other evidence that was there and that we saw looked at,
3:46
Speaker 1: with the body and all in totality, it did not
3:51
Speaker 1: make us make sense why they were calling this a
3:54
Speaker 1: traffic accident and why on this particular occasion was a
4:00
Speaker 1: rape kit ordered and a hit and run. Take listen
4:07
Speaker 1: to Fox Hat. No, I have no answers for you
4:10
Speaker 1: for why they would order a rape kit for a
4:13
Speaker 1: what would be suspected as a hit and run, which
4:16
Speaker 1: it wasn't. Retired South Carolina Highway Trooper Michael Duncan says
4:19
Speaker 1: he was headed to the scene where Stephen Smith was found,
4:22
Speaker 1: but was later called up, something he still finds confusing.
4:25
Speaker 1: I did not have an understanding of why I was
4:28
Speaker 1: being ordered. We were not notified until later that it
4:33
Speaker 1: had been ordered. The rape kit hours after Smith's death.
4:36
Speaker 1: The latest development days after Sled announced he would treat
4:39
Speaker 1: the death as a homicide. Smith family attorney Ronnie Richter says,
4:43
Speaker 1: the question now, can the test be located now? With
4:46
Speaker 1: the results of the rape kit showed? I have no idea,
4:49
Speaker 1: nor do I know if that evidence was preserved and
4:52
Speaker 1: it still available today, but I do know that it
4:54
Speaker 1: was gathered. Am I the only one that just heard?
4:59
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can find the rape kit?
5:03
Speaker 1: Can the rape kit be located? I have covered cases
5:10
Speaker 1: that were fifty years old and older where DNA from
5:15
Speaker 1: a rape kit was used to crack a cold murder.
5:20
Speaker 1: Locate the rape kit? Joining me is Jennifer Wood, director
5:26
Speaker 1: of research at fitnews dot com. You can find Jennifer
5:30
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Indie gen Underscore. Jennifer, It's great to
5:35
Speaker 1: have you on. You know FIT has been on this
5:37
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Fits Jennifer, What do they mean
5:41
Speaker 1: if they can locate the rape kit? It's the craziest
5:45
Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen, first that they even took one
5:47
Speaker 1: in what they claim to have a hit and run,
5:51
Speaker 1: and second that it's just disappeared. So we're talking about eminence.
5:56
Speaker 1: Where's the chain of custody? Where is where did this
5:58
Speaker 1: end up? I'm just overwhelmed, you know. Let me first
6:02
Speaker 1: go to renown forensic pathologist, medical examiner and lucky for
6:07
Speaker 1: US detective and author of homicide investigation Field Guy. This
6:13
Speaker 1: woman literally wrote the book. We're also going to be
6:17
Speaker 1: joined by Eric Bland, who has led the crusade along
6:21
Speaker 1: with Steven Smith's mother to have his body exhumed these
6:25
Speaker 1: years later to find the truth, which is a crying shame.
6:29
Speaker 1: Then the mom has to go on go fund me
6:31
Speaker 1: and raise money to find the truth about her son's death.
6:35
Speaker 1: For eight years, she's been screaming into the wind, my
6:38
Speaker 1: son was murdered, My son was murdered. And finally somebody
6:41
Speaker 1: hears it. You know. Doctor at Michelle Dupree with me,
6:46
Speaker 1: and this is her jurisdiction. She's joining us with South Carolina.
6:50
Speaker 1: A rape kit on a hit and run. Now, that
6:54
Speaker 1: tells me there was something about this body that led
6:58
Speaker 1: them to believe they should do a rape kit. Were
7:03
Speaker 1: I'm just going to be blunt. Where Steven Smith's pants
7:07
Speaker 1: pulled down were they on backwards? Was he missing underwear?
7:13
Speaker 1: Is underwear on backwards? Was there blood or abrasion visual
7:19
Speaker 1: abrasions around his rectum? What would lead out of the
7:23
Speaker 1: blue on a hit and run on a young male?
7:27
Speaker 1: What would lead to a rape kit? Nancy? As you know,
7:30
Speaker 1: we do sexual assault kits on many victims, male and female.
7:33
Speaker 1: But under these circumstances, yes, this is unusual to me.
7:38
Speaker 1: I think it more speaks to maybe the uncertainty of
7:41
Speaker 1: the pathologists that this may not have been a hit
7:43
Speaker 1: and run and therefore just covering her bases. But I
7:46
Speaker 1: can't explain it for a hit and run. Okay, wait, well,
7:49
Speaker 1: wall Wait, So you find a guy in the street
7:54
Speaker 1: and it's fully closed and it's a hit and run,
7:58
Speaker 1: it's obviously a hit and run where there's skid marks,
8:01
Speaker 1: there's glass on the ground, you can tell from his body,
8:05
Speaker 1: there are paint particles off the car on him. You're
8:12
Speaker 1: telling me you do a rape kit on that, No, Nansie,
8:15
Speaker 1: I said that this is unusual to do a rape
8:16
Speaker 1: kit on something like this. We do them, you know,
8:19
Speaker 1: on males and females for other reasons, but in this case, yeah,
8:22
Speaker 1: Well you started saying, well, we often do rape kits
8:25
Speaker 1: on men and women to make it. We deemed that
8:27
Speaker 1: this was sop standard operating procedure. But it's not. I
8:31
Speaker 1: know that much, and I'm just a JD. It's not.
8:33
Speaker 1: Depending on the circumstances, depending on where that body is
8:36
Speaker 1: found and other circumstances surrounding that death, we often do
8:40
Speaker 1: them on those victims. In this case, however, if we
8:43
Speaker 1: do suspect that it really is a hit and run, no,
8:45
Speaker 1: that's very, very unusual. But what this leads me to
8:48
Speaker 1: belief is that perhaps the pathologists ordered this to cover
8:52
Speaker 1: the basis because maybe maybe she wasn't quite so sure
8:55
Speaker 1: that this was really a hit and run. Well, the
8:57
Speaker 1: pathologist is digging her heels in on why she said
8:59
Speaker 1: it was a hit and run she did. Eric Bland,
9:05
Speaker 1: I can smell a rat. I can smell a rat.
9:09
Speaker 1: Guys with me a high profile lawyer who practices all
9:13
Speaker 1: over but is located in South Carolina geographically. He's the
9:17
Speaker 1: founding partner of Bland Rict Attorneys at Law. He is
9:21
Speaker 1: also representing Sandy Smith and her crusade for justice for
9:25
Speaker 1: her son Stephen Smith, and the Gloria Sadderfield family. As
9:29
Speaker 1: you will recall Gloria Sadderfield, a woman in the prime
9:33
Speaker 1: of her life and her fifties, who have been the
9:35
Speaker 1: housekeeper for the Murdoch family for years and years and years,
9:38
Speaker 1: helped raise Buster Murdog and Paul Murdog who is now dead.
9:43
Speaker 1: She is a dead at the foot of their stairs
9:45
Speaker 1: as well. That became a focal point during the Alex
9:49
Speaker 1: Murdog double murder trial. Eric Bland, I hear what doctor
9:53
Speaker 1: Duprey is saying, but I am telling you there is
9:56
Speaker 1: a rat in this. You do not do a rape
9:59
Speaker 1: kit on a hit and run, you are correct. I
10:03
Speaker 1: think what happened is they somebody at the scene recognized
10:09
Speaker 1: Stephen and knew that he was a young, gay, adult
10:13
Speaker 1: male kid. And because they wouldn't have gotten to his
10:17
Speaker 1: car by the time they got to him, that the
10:20
Speaker 1: nine one one call went to him where he was
10:23
Speaker 1: in the road, so no one would have already gone
10:25
Speaker 1: and looked in the car. Remember, his wallet was in
10:28
Speaker 1: the car, so he wouldn't have had any identification on him,
10:32
Speaker 1: so somebody had to have known. It was Stephen Smith
10:36
Speaker 1: at the accident scene who have said, you know what
10:41
Speaker 1: we got to do? A rape kit fled was the
10:44
Speaker 1: one that gathered the evidence. Okay, then wait a minute,
10:46
Speaker 1: Aaron Wyang, you're saying, oh, he's gay, less do a
10:48
Speaker 1: rape kit. That doesn't make sense to me either. Just
10:51
Speaker 1: because a man is gay, that doesn't mean you're going
10:54
Speaker 1: to do a rate kit. I understand. But him not
10:57
Speaker 1: having any identification on him, played in the middle of
11:00
Speaker 1: the road where he was angled, and just the injuries
11:06
Speaker 1: that he sustained, somebody must have recognized him as being
11:09
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith. That's the only plausible explanation I could come
11:13
Speaker 1: up with. Okay, well, you know, I typically agree with
11:17
Speaker 1: you on a lot of things. Not everything, obviously, but
11:19
Speaker 1: a lot of things. But just because you say that's
11:22
Speaker 1: Stephen Smith, let's do a rape kit, that's a non sequitur.
11:26
Speaker 1: Oh I plead guilty. I threw some Latin at you.
11:29
Speaker 1: It doesn't follow. That doesn't make sense. For instance, I
11:33
Speaker 1: see Jackie walking through the studio and I say, you
11:36
Speaker 1: know what, I'm calling nine one one because I think
11:38
Speaker 1: you just did a grand larceny. That doesn't even make
11:40
Speaker 1: any sense. He's Stephen Smith, Let's do a rape kit. No,
11:45
Speaker 1: in Oh, there was something wrong with that body, There
11:50
Speaker 1: was something wrong with the way his pants were on,
11:52
Speaker 1: his underwear was on, something around his private parts or
11:55
Speaker 1: his mouth. Something made them do a rape kit, because
11:59
Speaker 1: a rape kit, correct me if I'm wrong, Doctor Duprie,
12:02
Speaker 1: is not standard operating procedure unless you have a reason
12:05
Speaker 1: to suspect it should be done. That's right, Ny. But again,
12:09
Speaker 1: if we look at that totality of circumstances, and as
12:12
Speaker 1: Eric said, you know, this is an unknown homosexual young
12:15
Speaker 1: man found in the middle of the road, A lot
12:19
Speaker 1: of people, even at the scene of the crime, do
12:21
Speaker 1: not believe this is a hit and run. There is
12:23
Speaker 1: suspicion from the very beginning. Yes, yeah, And Nancy, if
12:28
Speaker 1: is this Chris mcdonnah speaking, Yes, ma'am. Hey, Chris, guys,
12:31
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna is joining US, director of the Cold Case Foundation,
12:35
Speaker 1: former homicide detective, host of the YouTube channel the interview
12:39
Speaker 1: in where I first found him back on the Coburger case,
12:43
Speaker 1: and you can find him at Coldcase Foundation dot org.
12:46
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Chris, So, Nancy, we've all a lot of
12:49
Speaker 1: folks have been commenting about, you know, this hit and
12:51
Speaker 1: run situation in terms of his shoes, you're getting knocked off, etc.
12:55
Speaker 1: But if we take a closer look at the shoes.
12:58
Speaker 1: Go ahead, let's talk about the shoes. What do you say. Okay,
13:00
Speaker 1: So if we look at the bottom of the shoes,
13:03
Speaker 1: we see wet mud and dried mud on the side.
13:08
Speaker 1: That tells us if you go to the top of
13:11
Speaker 1: the shoe on the bottom, if there's a smooth part
13:15
Speaker 1: of that mud. It's very smooth if you zoom in
13:18
Speaker 1: on it. And if you look at that and then
13:21
Speaker 1: compare that. Wait a minute, Wait a minute. We're on
13:23
Speaker 1: the bottom of his left shoe. The entire shoe bottom
13:28
Speaker 1: has mud all over it. I see that. It's compact.
13:31
Speaker 1: It's compacted. It's covering up the tread. I see it, yes, ma'am.
13:35
Speaker 1: And so if you go towards the top, they're the
13:38
Speaker 1: front of his foot, you see where it's smooth yep.
13:42
Speaker 1: Now that is really interesting because if you look at
13:45
Speaker 1: the texture of the roadway, you would think you would
13:50
Speaker 1: have an impression of that texture in that wet mud,
13:55
Speaker 1: and it's not there. So that made me start thinking about, Okay,
14:01
Speaker 1: does this theory of placement a second area where this
14:07
Speaker 1: actually occurred to Eric's point earlier, I would submit to
14:11
Speaker 1: you these shoes are a huge clue to that secondary
14:15
Speaker 1: area of where which we would call the first crime
14:19
Speaker 1: scene potentially. You know what, you just are giving me
14:23
Speaker 1: so much information, and you're right because wherever he walked,
14:29
Speaker 1: he definitely left a shoe tread absolutely because you can
14:34
Speaker 1: see on the bottom off his foot. That's pretty brilliant,
14:39
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, that's a great observation. You're taking something that
14:44
Speaker 1: seems ordinary and you have now gleamed and a very
14:48
Speaker 1: important clue. We look at the top of the shoe
14:51
Speaker 1: as well. It appears to be wet in the front
14:54
Speaker 1: and dried in the back on both of those shoes.
15:00
Speaker 1: There has to be a water shore somewhere around these shoes. Okay,
15:04
Speaker 1: what about an airing bland. I think Chris is spot on.
15:06
Speaker 1: I think that they're looking at the wrong crime scene.
15:09
Speaker 1: I think the crime scene happened somewhere else, whether it
15:12
Speaker 1: happened where his car was evidently broken down or made
15:17
Speaker 1: to look broke down, that is where the crime scene was.
15:20
Speaker 1: I would like to have known where they're tire tracks
15:23
Speaker 1: that were taken, not just Steven's tracks, but just did
15:28
Speaker 1: a car pull up behind because they would have had
15:31
Speaker 1: to stop to push the car or put it over there.
15:34
Speaker 1: Where it was or hit him where he was. So
15:37
Speaker 1: for me, I'm totally agreeing with doctor Dupree, m with Chris.
15:42
Speaker 1: I think that there was enough evidence there, like you
15:46
Speaker 1: talked about the abrasions in the erectam area, or blood
15:51
Speaker 1: seeping or body fluid seeping, enough that somebody put two
15:56
Speaker 1: and two together and said, we know this kid. There's
15:59
Speaker 1: no identification on him, which is really strange. At four
16:02
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. Somebody must ordered the rape kid.
16:07
Speaker 1: As I told you, sled gathered the evidence, but it
16:09
Speaker 1: was Highway Patrol. They conducted the investigation and corresponded with
16:15
Speaker 1: the pathology. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here. Join us now
16:24
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation for our brand new special, Children of
16:28
Speaker 1: Serial Killers, a Nancy Grace investigation. Parents by day, killers
16:33
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Speaker 1: What happens when they find out mommy or Daddy's a killer?
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Speaker 1: In this new special, we investigate the lives of children
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17:16
Speaker 1: Go to Foxnation dot com to watch crime stories with
17:34
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm just putting it out there. If they've
17:42
Speaker 1: lost the right kit, we're screwed. But another technical legal term,
17:50
Speaker 1: but Eric Bland, I've had a lot of cases, and
17:53
Speaker 1: I recall one in particular. The murderers happened when I
17:58
Speaker 1: was in law school. By the time my finished law
18:01
Speaker 1: school finished a clerk shook with a judge, finished my
18:05
Speaker 1: time in an antitrust division at the Federal Trade Commission,
18:09
Speaker 1: and made it to the DA's office and try cases
18:11
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. And he gone all the
18:13
Speaker 1: way up to the eleventh Circuit and come back down
18:15
Speaker 1: for a retrial. When I went to go find the evidence,
18:18
Speaker 1: you know what I found, Bland. I found one X
18:22
Speaker 1: ray I had no idea what it meant, and a
18:25
Speaker 1: hat that said kiss my bass, Oh my good. That
18:29
Speaker 1: was all the evidence that was found. Why because the
18:32
Speaker 1: evidence room had moved twice during that time and evidence
18:35
Speaker 1: had been lost. I was lucky to find a hat. Frankly,
18:38
Speaker 1: as it turned out, it was an important piece of
18:40
Speaker 1: evidence that said you can try a case without the
18:45
Speaker 1: original evidence. You can, But wouldn't it be great to
18:49
Speaker 1: have that rape kit? So since shivers down my spine
18:54
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood, director research fitsnews dot com, who's been all
18:59
Speaker 1: over the Merdle cases the very beginning. Fantastic coverage, Jennifer.
19:04
Speaker 1: So would it be highway patrol or would it be
19:07
Speaker 1: SLED that submitted the rape kit? So it looks like
19:11
Speaker 1: I mean, looking at the chain of custody, it looks
19:13
Speaker 1: like it's a flood agent had the rape kit last?
19:18
Speaker 1: Oh boy? When I hear somebody say who had it last?
19:22
Speaker 1: That sounds like me with the twins. Okay, who saw
19:24
Speaker 1: it last? That is not scientific at all, So, Nancy,
19:28
Speaker 1: typically the pathologist is going to perform the rape kit. Yeah,
19:32
Speaker 1: they will. Then they will then start that chain of
19:34
Speaker 1: custody and turn it over to law enforcement. Our rpe
19:37
Speaker 1: kits here in South Carolina all go to SLED and
19:40
Speaker 1: they're kept there until hopefully needed at some point in time.
19:44
Speaker 1: You know what, That's why I love you that amongst
19:46
Speaker 1: so many other things online on Twitter. They love you,
19:50
Speaker 1: doctor Dupre because apparently of your hair, But I love
19:53
Speaker 1: you because of the smart things you say all the time.
19:56
Speaker 1: So you're telling me, at the Medical Examiner's Office of
19:59
Speaker 1: South Carolina, rape kits go to SLED, whether highway patrol
20:06
Speaker 1: initiated the investigation or not, rape kits go to SLED.
20:10
Speaker 1: Is that right? Well, I'm telling you yes, sir. The pathologist,
20:12
Speaker 1: the physician is the one who performs the rape kit
20:15
Speaker 1: right then turns it over to law enforcement, either local
20:17
Speaker 1: law enforcement or whoever is attending the autopsy at the time.
20:21
Speaker 1: It eventually winds its way up to SLED because that
20:24
Speaker 1: is our state laboratory that does the DNA testing for
20:27
Speaker 1: rape kits in our state. Well, there you go. I've
20:29
Speaker 1: got an idea where Jennifer Wood is going to be
20:31
Speaker 1: this afternoon. I heard somebody else breaking in. Eric, Yeah, hey, Eric,
20:38
Speaker 1: I want to go to listen to Brian Darr with me.
20:41
Speaker 1: Senior forensic Engineer, expert with forensics. You can find him
20:46
Speaker 1: and many places, but one is tire expert dot com.
20:50
Speaker 1: He has done so many reconstructions. He knows how to
20:57
Speaker 1: find the evidence. My fear, Brian darr Are is based
21:01
Speaker 1: on what Chris mcdonnah has found on the bottom of
21:03
Speaker 1: the shoes of Steven Smith. We may never get that
21:07
Speaker 1: evidence now if they didn't do footprint evidence like we
21:11
Speaker 1: just did in Coburg. Remember the shoe prints that were
21:15
Speaker 1: found inside the crime scene where the four young students
21:19
Speaker 1: were murdered. There was a footprint. Remember it was taken immediately,
21:24
Speaker 1: But I didn't hear anything about footprints or tar tracks
21:28
Speaker 1: being taken around Steven Smith's car where it was abandoned. Yeah,
21:32
Speaker 1: documentation is key. I mean, if they didn't document that
21:36
Speaker 1: because they didn't suspect it at the time, it would
21:39
Speaker 1: be very, very difficult to obviously find it. Now, what
21:42
Speaker 1: are you make of what Chris mcdonnah said about the
21:44
Speaker 1: bottom of Steven smith shoes. They're definitely muddy. That very
21:47
Speaker 1: good observation, and it's packed in dar that mud is
21:51
Speaker 1: I would agree. Yeah, he left some very good prints
21:55
Speaker 1: and from what we can see in these crime scene photos,
21:57
Speaker 1: they're not there on the road. The road is blacktop.
22:02
Speaker 1: Let's look at the photos, guys. Let's look. We've got
22:04
Speaker 1: seventeen photos to look at. Everybody with me. The first
22:08
Speaker 1: one is Steven Smith bright yellow car. Do you see that,
22:13
Speaker 1: Eric Bland, I do. It's right on the side of
22:16
Speaker 1: the road right there. That is where he could have
22:21
Speaker 1: left those prints when he got out. See the soil
22:25
Speaker 1: right there, and you can, oh my goodness. Look to
22:28
Speaker 1: the passenger side of the car. Are those tar tracks
22:34
Speaker 1: right there? I can't tell right to the right, yeah,
22:38
Speaker 1: the front passenger side. I'm wondering if go ahead, jump in.
22:42
Speaker 1: You know what we could be done here, Nancy. Still,
22:46
Speaker 1: if they still have the shoes, they can scrape that
22:49
Speaker 1: mud and get a botanist in there and see if
22:53
Speaker 1: that vegetation area or the mud area is consistent with
22:58
Speaker 1: the mud on the bar them of those shoes. We
23:01
Speaker 1: I did that in a case a body dump in
23:04
Speaker 1: the It was a mountain, and we took all the
23:08
Speaker 1: air filters out of the guy's car and matched it
23:12
Speaker 1: to the area, the vegetation area. So it's still possible
23:18
Speaker 1: they could connect the shoes back to that car, to
23:21
Speaker 1: your point around that side of the car. If that's
23:24
Speaker 1: if that's in play. The only problem that we don't
23:27
Speaker 1: I don't know where the clothes are. If they have
23:29
Speaker 1: the clothes, I'm supposed to find that out from sled
23:32
Speaker 1: if they have Steven's clothes, the tan shorts, the black
23:34
Speaker 1: shirt and all that he was wearing. Doctor Michelle Joy
23:38
Speaker 1: is with me forensic, clinical and academic psychiatrist, author of
23:42
Speaker 1: and illustrated history of the insanity defense. And you can
23:46
Speaker 1: find doctor Michelle Joy at West Philly Morbid Art. Doctor Joy,
23:52
Speaker 1: thiser being with us, What must this be doing to
23:56
Speaker 1: Steven Smith's mother as she hearing discussions about, oh, did
24:01
Speaker 1: they lose the rape kit? Did they even keep the clothes?
24:04
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so marginalizes her son's life. I
24:09
Speaker 1: mean entirely, and just building on the comment that I
24:12
Speaker 1: think you had made earlier that she had been trying
24:14
Speaker 1: to get attention to this matter. You know for years
24:17
Speaker 1: there is never really you know, an appropriate grieving process
24:21
Speaker 1: or sense of closure yet and then all of this
24:24
Speaker 1: coming up that there's these loose ends that they might
24:27
Speaker 1: have been treated appropriately, you know, but just wasn't right.
24:30
Speaker 1: There are all these kind of things that have happened
24:32
Speaker 1: in the past that she might not ever know, or
24:34
Speaker 1: she might you know in some sense. But I think
24:36
Speaker 1: it's re traumatizing an already traumatic situation that she never
24:40
Speaker 1: heals from. It's one long, extended loss with repeat impult
24:44
Speaker 1: over and over. It's how I'm seeing it. To just
24:46
Speaker 1: think about the rape kit. Wow, who saw it last?
24:51
Speaker 1: That just stops me in my tracks. That is so
24:56
Speaker 1: off standard procedure. Who saw it last? There is a
25:01
Speaker 1: very intricate chain of custody attached to evidence from a
25:05
Speaker 1: crime scene. I'll give you an example. I had a
25:08
Speaker 1: guy who's a serial killer, but we could get him
25:12
Speaker 1: on one murder and that's all it took. I needed
25:15
Speaker 1: as a DNA. Guess what, the homicide detective, who was
25:20
Speaker 1: a great detective for some reason, did not sign the
25:23
Speaker 1: back of the Manila folder when he sealed it with
25:26
Speaker 1: a DNA inside and took it to the crime lab.
25:29
Speaker 1: I realized that a week before trial. One week one week,
25:34
Speaker 1: we went straight back to the jail. I watched them
25:38
Speaker 1: take the DNA at the jail through a glass window.
25:41
Speaker 1: The defendant was just looking at me. I looked right
25:43
Speaker 1: back at him. He can rotten hell. And drove with
25:47
Speaker 1: the investigator back to the crime lab and had it
25:51
Speaker 1: redone same result. But that said, you can lose a
25:55
Speaker 1: case that way. Who saw it last? Guys, Let's go
25:58
Speaker 1: to the next picture, because this is so desolate and
26:02
Speaker 1: I want doctor Joy the way in on this. It's
26:05
Speaker 1: across the street from Steven Smith's yellow car. It's a
26:10
Speaker 1: huge cornfield. Has anybody ever been in the middle of
26:13
Speaker 1: a cornfield? You can't see anything, you can't find your
26:16
Speaker 1: way out. That's why they make mazes out of them
26:20
Speaker 1: at Halloween time. You go in the cornfield and try
26:22
Speaker 1: to find your way out. That's not fun. The Twins
26:25
Speaker 1: and nine, he only went Bissert when we went to
26:26
Speaker 1: a cornfield. Eric Bland, you're familiar with this stretch of road.
26:31
Speaker 1: This is right across the street from where Steven Smith's
26:33
Speaker 1: car is found, right, correct. What a desolate night that
26:36
Speaker 1: must have been, Doctor Michelle Joy. It's two or three
26:39
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. He runs out of gas across
26:44
Speaker 1: from this cornfield. He had a cell phone, Doctor Joy.
26:48
Speaker 1: Why not use a cell phone instead of leaving his
26:51
Speaker 1: id behind and taking out setting out on foot? Exactly?
26:55
Speaker 1: None of that makes sense with the facts that we have.
26:58
Speaker 1: And just looking at that second photo there, I mean,
27:00
Speaker 1: there's almost an eerie cinematic quality to it. And this
27:04
Speaker 1: is a day right, so just imagining, you know, this
27:07
Speaker 1: person leaving on foot to in any sense, I think
27:12
Speaker 1: that would be right for getting gas, getting help. You
27:15
Speaker 1: know anything, We have no you know, prior history that
27:18
Speaker 1: he wasn't making sense at the time, or had you know,
27:20
Speaker 1: any kind of break of his cognition or emotions that
27:24
Speaker 1: he was acting irrationally. Right, we have none of that evidence.
27:26
Speaker 1: I would say, Oh, he made this odd decision at
27:29
Speaker 1: this time, and just looking at that picture, you just
27:31
Speaker 1: really get a sense that that is not the decision
27:34
Speaker 1: that a functional rational person would make to leave without
27:37
Speaker 1: an idea, without a phone on that stretch of road.
27:39
Speaker 1: And Jackie here wants to know, how are you going
27:41
Speaker 1: to buy gas without your wallet or your or any money? Hey,
27:45
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood joining us from fitznews dot com. Was the
27:50
Speaker 1: scene around his car processed? Was there blood there? Did
27:54
Speaker 1: he have a cell phone on him? And was it cracked? Jennifer, So,
27:58
Speaker 1: his cell phone was on him, it was not cracked.
28:02
Speaker 1: I do believe they did do some processing of the
28:04
Speaker 1: scene around the car, I mean, just based on looking
28:07
Speaker 1: at the crime scene photos. I mean they did have
28:09
Speaker 1: it taped off. But to the extent of whether or
28:14
Speaker 1: not they did tire track impressions, shoe impressions, I don't
28:18
Speaker 1: believe they did, because Sandy said afterwards that she went
28:21
Speaker 1: back and alerted them that she had seen some shoeprints.
28:25
Speaker 1: Eric Bland, what can you tell me about Steven Smith
28:29
Speaker 1: telling friends or family just before his death that he
28:33
Speaker 1: was going deep sea fishing. Was someone that was loaded
28:37
Speaker 1: and had a lot of money, and he couldn't say
28:39
Speaker 1: their name. Yeah, that you are stating exactly what Stephanie
28:45
Speaker 1: and Sandy, Stephanie's twin sister said. Stephen was very secretive.
28:51
Speaker 1: Stephen did not talk about his you know, friendships with
28:57
Speaker 1: other men. It just wasn't something that's Sandy pressed he did.
29:03
Speaker 1: He did tell her a week and a half before
29:06
Speaker 1: the murder that he was going to go fishing with
29:10
Speaker 1: a very prominent person. Is the word you use? Prominent?
29:15
Speaker 1: And Sandy did inquire and said who isn't He said,
29:18
Speaker 1: I can't tell you. You may find out in due time.
29:21
Speaker 1: And you know, I think when I meet with Chief
29:26
Speaker 1: Keel there a lie came off of his phone and
29:29
Speaker 1: they're they're about to crack I think his tablet, his iPad,
29:34
Speaker 1: and Chief Kiel told me that there was typical things
29:39
Speaker 1: that you would expect from a nineteen year old sexually
29:43
Speaker 1: active young man, So that means either heterosexual or homosexual. Look,
29:49
Speaker 1: it's a different age for us, but nineteen year olds
29:52
Speaker 1: evidently chair photos of body parts and stuff like that.
29:57
Speaker 1: That's what I took from what Chief Kiel told me
30:00
Speaker 1: that they've they've gathered from the phone. So I think
30:04
Speaker 1: this case is going to be sobbd by phone evidence,
30:07
Speaker 1: by computer emails, both pre and post death. I think
30:13
Speaker 1: is going to indicate a lot. So you're saying that
30:15
Speaker 1: there's a tablet and a phone, imply yes, you mean
30:18
Speaker 1: an iPad. Yeah, I don't know whether it's an iPad
30:21
Speaker 1: or another type of tab Hey, listen again, Eric Bland.
30:25
Speaker 1: I know you run in rarefied circles there at the
30:28
Speaker 1: bar Association. But again, this is not a high tea
30:32
Speaker 1: at Windsor Castle. People send nudes to each other, all right,
30:37
Speaker 1: don't care. I only care if I can identify the
30:42
Speaker 1: last few nudes sent Stephen Smith. I remember. Let me
30:47
Speaker 1: just give an example. Michael Jackson, one of the young
30:50
Speaker 1: boys could identify his penis because of discoloration in his
30:54
Speaker 1: growing area. Anybody remember that it was just me I do.
30:58
Speaker 1: So if they're there is a body part on Steven
31:02
Speaker 1: Smith's phone, they can be identified to a living person.
31:06
Speaker 1: They're in trouble. I'm telling you that right now, especially
31:09
Speaker 1: if it was around the time of his death. Guys,
31:12
Speaker 1: the next photo, Oh, hey, so they've already tapped into it,
31:17
Speaker 1: Eric Blam. We don't need somebody from the Secret Service
31:20
Speaker 1: like we had to do in Murlock to get into
31:21
Speaker 1: Paul's phone. Now we've given the phone's crack, we've given
31:26
Speaker 1: what we think would be his codes for the tablet.
31:31
Speaker 1: Told by Chief Keel that they're getting close. They've had
31:34
Speaker 1: it on a cycle and evidently if you try to
31:37
Speaker 1: crack the code and fifteen times, yeah, there's a shutdown period.
31:42
Speaker 1: But they're going to crack the code. He's very comfident
31:45
Speaker 1: they're going to crack it. And when I was writing
31:47
Speaker 1: my last book, Don't be a victim, you know a
31:50
Speaker 1: huge percentage of people still do one two three four
31:53
Speaker 1: or one one one one or two two two two
31:55
Speaker 1: something like their birthday. Yeah, a lot, they're going to
32:00
Speaker 1: crack it. Hey, guys, let's look at a picture number three.
32:03
Speaker 1: It's just law enforcement lined up there along the highway
32:07
Speaker 1: for also, but you see the desolation in the area,
32:11
Speaker 1: very rural area. Let's continue on. You also see in
32:15
Speaker 1: the next photo how far away from the woods the
32:19
Speaker 1: car would have been. Very close to the woods. Let's
32:23
Speaker 1: move forward one, two, three. You see the scene blocked
32:26
Speaker 1: off with yellow tape. Now I'm curious, let me ask
32:30
Speaker 1: Jennifer joining us Jennifer Wood, director Research Fits News. The
32:35
Speaker 1: photo where the yellow crime scene tape is stretched across
32:39
Speaker 1: the road, is that going to be where his car
32:42
Speaker 1: was found or his body was found? So I it
32:44
Speaker 1: looks to me like that's where the car was found. Agree,
32:49
Speaker 1: because in the next photo you see two crime scene tapes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah,
32:54
Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna be. I was gonna say the
32:57
Speaker 1: side of the road doesn't look as sandy as it
32:59
Speaker 1: did in the original picture, but it actually does between
33:02
Speaker 1: the grass I can see. I think you're right, Jennifer. Guys,
33:06
Speaker 1: let's move forward to a book found on the front
33:10
Speaker 1: seat in Steven Smith's car, Human Anatomy and Physiology. Jennifer,
33:16
Speaker 1: wasn't he studying to be a nurse? Yes, he was
33:18
Speaker 1: going to orge Orangeburg Technical College studying to be a nurse.
33:22
Speaker 1: And I believe he did have classes that night and
33:25
Speaker 1: was coming home from classes. The next photo you see
33:28
Speaker 1: the interior of his car. To Chris mcdonne, a former
33:31
Speaker 1: homicide detective, host of the Interview Room, what would you
33:36
Speaker 1: look for inside that car? Well, you would want to
33:39
Speaker 1: look for any type of evidence that would point towards
33:42
Speaker 1: a struggle and or transfer of any type, either fluid forensic.
33:50
Speaker 1: When I say forensic transfer, what I mean by that
33:54
Speaker 1: is any digital devices left inside there from a potential suspect.
33:59
Speaker 1: You want to look for any type of fingerprint evidence.
34:03
Speaker 1: A lot of times you can look on the back
34:05
Speaker 1: side of the mirror and if somebody had adjusted it.
34:09
Speaker 1: You want to see what the seat position is if
34:11
Speaker 1: somebody drove that car and he was a potential passenger,
34:16
Speaker 1: and so those are the kind of things you want
34:18
Speaker 1: to be checking out, han't you. Guys? Move forward two
34:20
Speaker 1: or three photos and you get to the passenger side
34:24
Speaker 1: of Steven Smith's car and you see the gas the
34:27
Speaker 1: gas tank open. Does that make sense to you, Eric Bland,
34:30
Speaker 1: Now it doesn't because it's not even on the car side.
34:35
Speaker 1: It's not even on the roadside. You know, when we
34:38
Speaker 1: were drawing up, we had antennas that came from the
34:41
Speaker 1: hood in our cars, and if you broke down, you
34:43
Speaker 1: would put like a white handkerchief for something white on it.
34:47
Speaker 1: But that doesn't make sense to me. Why Steven would
34:52
Speaker 1: open the gas cap and do that and pull it
34:54
Speaker 1: out lea but hanging there? And you know another thing
34:56
Speaker 1: that's bothering me, to Jennifer Wood and joining us from
34:59
Speaker 1: fits New. I don't see any fingerprint dust on that. None. None, none.
35:04
Speaker 1: That's bothering me because if if I went empty, I
35:08
Speaker 1: could see it on my dash empty, the red sign.
35:14
Speaker 1: I don't have to go what pull open the gas
35:17
Speaker 1: I can smell to SEPA's empty. No, I know it's empty. Ye.
35:20
Speaker 1: Who would have opened this up and left the screw
35:24
Speaker 1: part hanging out like that? Who? And it's not dusted.
35:29
Speaker 1: If somebody came back or tried to stage it to
35:33
Speaker 1: look like this is what happened, their prints would have
35:36
Speaker 1: been right there. Jennifer, what about it? I mean, the
35:38
Speaker 1: only thing I've ever thought made sense was if somebody
35:42
Speaker 1: pulled up and offered to help him, offered to give
35:44
Speaker 1: him gas. That's the only thing I can think of,
35:48
Speaker 1: the only reason that it makes sense for the gas
35:52
Speaker 1: kept to be off unless it was staged. Nancy. I mean,
35:56
Speaker 1: think about look how it the car is perfectly aligned
35:59
Speaker 1: there off the side of the road. I would have
36:01
Speaker 1: taken my wallet if I needed gas. Right, Okay, guys,
36:05
Speaker 1: go to the next picture. See that orange that's been
36:09
Speaker 1: spray painted an orange block in the middle of the road.
36:12
Speaker 1: Do you guys see that? Yeah? Yeah, what is that?
36:15
Speaker 1: What do you think that is? Brian dahar Oh, that's
36:18
Speaker 1: I believe that's where they're fating the body was found. Yeah, paint.
36:25
Speaker 1: You can see little paint dot. I see them on
36:28
Speaker 1: the asphalt. I see it. And that collaborates with the
36:33
Speaker 1: other photos that the show dots being at his feet
36:37
Speaker 1: and a dot being up at his whereas head came
36:40
Speaker 1: the rent. I see it. I see those marks which
36:44
Speaker 1: appear to me Eric Wlan to be his blood. Yeah,
36:47
Speaker 1: he lost it. It's about blood through his head. If
36:50
Speaker 1: you see the photos of Stephen on the ground, Um
36:56
Speaker 1: and Michelle and I have talked about that, and we're
36:59
Speaker 1: not convinced that that that doesn't mean that he was
37:02
Speaker 1: killed there. That sometimes you have a close head injury
37:06
Speaker 1: and when the body is dropped, that's when it releases
37:10
Speaker 1: its blood. So the fact that he was bled out
37:13
Speaker 1: there is an indicative that that's where the murder took place. Guys,
37:17
Speaker 1: you can see all of these photos and more at
37:20
Speaker 1: crime online dot com if you want to look at
37:22
Speaker 1: them carefully and inspect them and blow them up, because
37:26
Speaker 1: when you do blow them up, you can see so
37:28
Speaker 1: much more of the detail. We're talking about time stories
37:47
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, doctor Michelle Duprie joining me. Pathologists, medical examiner,
37:56
Speaker 1: former detective. Would you have expected to see more blood there? Yeah,
38:01
Speaker 1: well certainly if it was a hit and run, yes,
38:04
Speaker 1: But given that we don't suspect that, you know, this
38:07
Speaker 1: amount of blood I think is appropriate. As Eric explained,
38:10
Speaker 1: we think that he was probably till someplace else and
38:12
Speaker 1: dropped or staged right here in the middle of the road.
38:15
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Michelle Joy, who is a forensic, clinical,
38:18
Speaker 1: and academic psychiatrist. Guys, a psychiatrist gets a medical decree
38:25
Speaker 1: and then specializes in psychiatry. I just wonder what that
38:31
Speaker 1: one photo is doing to Stephen Smith's mother, where her
38:36
Speaker 1: son is basically reduced to a spray paint rectangle in
38:40
Speaker 1: the middle of the road. Right. There's something I was
38:43
Speaker 1: even myself a little bit confused when I first saw it,
38:46
Speaker 1: because it isn't even a typical it's so you know
38:48
Speaker 1: typically in movies or whenever you see the body outline.
38:52
Speaker 1: I mean, this is really like the most the human
38:55
Speaker 1: square boxes all that there is, right, and that that
38:58
Speaker 1: was so long ago at this point he even you repvisited.
39:00
Speaker 1: So again it's the whole thing is must be a
39:04
Speaker 1: terrible experience, and to have to see these images in
39:07
Speaker 1: the news and then really a square box, like you said,
39:09
Speaker 1: distilled down to like the least human thing possible. I
39:14
Speaker 1: remember and my fiancee's murder. When I took the stand
39:18
Speaker 1: in that case and I was leaving the stand, I
39:20
Speaker 1: walked by States Council table. I had never even been
39:23
Speaker 1: in a courtroom before, and I saw his denim shirt
39:26
Speaker 1: he was wearing that day, and other pieces of evidence,
39:29
Speaker 1: and it just I felt like I had been hit
39:32
Speaker 1: by a baseball bat because it was so impersonal. It
39:37
Speaker 1: was just, you know, scattered across the table and there's
39:40
Speaker 1: really nobody's fault, but his whole life had been boiled
39:44
Speaker 1: down to little pieces of evidence. In the next photo,
39:48
Speaker 1: I want to go to Brian dar on this and
39:50
Speaker 1: everybody jump in if you've got a thought. Jennifer Woods,
39:53
Speaker 1: Brian Darr. Let's start with Dar. We see his cell
39:56
Speaker 1: phone in an evidence bag. I just wonder why he
40:01
Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken the phone with him, and what, if
40:04
Speaker 1: anything they could gain from that. What do you think? Well,
40:10
Speaker 1: I thought I had heard someone earlier say that the
40:13
Speaker 1: cell phone was phoned. Oh yeah, I mean that's it.
40:16
Speaker 1: It was in his pocket. He took that with him.
40:18
Speaker 1: The process of finding it. I mean, I wonder if
40:21
Speaker 1: we're going to learn that we've already made no calls?
40:25
Speaker 1: Did he did he try to call a tow truck?
40:28
Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to learn a lot from that.
40:30
Speaker 1: And to you, Jennifer wood Nampy, I need to break in.
40:33
Speaker 1: He did have a phone call. Someone said he did
40:36
Speaker 1: have a phone call. It hasn't been proven. There's a
40:39
Speaker 1: guy named Mark what's his name, Markham Mark Berkhart who
40:46
Speaker 1: claims that he was having an affair with Stephen and
40:50
Speaker 1: that Stephen called him and tected with him, supposedly after
40:56
Speaker 1: he left the car. But Becker is not has been
41:00
Speaker 1: deemed by SLED could not be credible. His story is
41:03
Speaker 1: all over the map. They actually have a live interview
41:07
Speaker 1: with him in Duncan and he claims that he had
41:10
Speaker 1: a relationship with Stephen. They were he met him at
41:14
Speaker 1: some bar and Charleston that he can't give the name
41:17
Speaker 1: on that supposedly was open at one time, but he
41:21
Speaker 1: claims that he had a conversation with Stephen after he
41:24
Speaker 1: left the car. Guys, I wanted to take a listen
41:27
Speaker 1: to our cut. Number four from WCSC documents show investigators
41:32
Speaker 1: fielding tips about the Murdoch family in the days and
41:34
Speaker 1: months following his death. The first tip comes in early August,
41:38
Speaker 1: suggesting swirling rumors of a relationship between Smith and Buster
41:42
Speaker 1: Murdoch Alec Murdoch's eldest and now only surviving son. An
41:47
Speaker 1: investigator also feels a tip about another possible suspect, but
41:50
Speaker 1: that tipster tells them he passed along the information at
41:54
Speaker 1: the request of a well known family patriarch. Former solicitor
41:57
Speaker 1: Randy Murdoch Andrew says in the record she has the
42:00
Speaker 1: Murdoch name is mentioned forty times. Where there's smoke, there's fire,
42:05
Speaker 1: there has to be something to it. Eventually, the leads
42:09
Speaker 1: dried up and the case went cold. Buster Murdog vehemently
42:14
Speaker 1: denies any connection to the Stephen Smith case. Eric Bland,
42:21
Speaker 1: what is going to happen next? We have gotten approvals
42:24
Speaker 1: already from the funeral home all the way through the corner.
42:28
Speaker 1: Next we get de Heck to give approval for the exhamation.
42:33
Speaker 1: De Heck is the Department of Health Environmental Control. They
42:36
Speaker 1: control you know, burials, And we're confident that we're going
42:41
Speaker 1: to get it because LED is endorsing it, so I
42:44
Speaker 1: don't think we're going to have to go to court.
42:46
Speaker 1: But the last thing we have to get is the
42:48
Speaker 1: de Heck approval. We already have obviously, doctor Dupree we have.
42:53
Speaker 1: So you're putting together your own dream team. Dare I
42:56
Speaker 1: use the price? It is a very good stable of experts.
43:00
Speaker 1: I'm not part of the dream team. I'm just a
43:01
Speaker 1: normal lawyer. But yes, I got doctor Michelle Duprie. We
43:06
Speaker 1: have a forensic anthropologist pathologist in Florida as well as
43:11
Speaker 1: we have a pathologist who's going to perform the actual autopsy.
43:15
Speaker 1: And we are pleased to announce that we have doctor
43:19
Speaker 1: Kenny Kenzie, who now is going to be an addition
43:22
Speaker 1: to the team to do the action and reconstruction and
43:26
Speaker 1: start the investigation as a man. That's great. We all
43:29
Speaker 1: made Kenzie on the stand during Murgue. He had a
43:34
Speaker 1: very exciting. So I think we have Zie on the stand.
43:41
Speaker 1: He was awesome. We expect that all of this is
43:45
Speaker 1: going to be done by next Friday. Wait as Justice
43:49
Speaker 1: son Thols goodbye. So