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The Foundations of Scaling · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

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Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
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So if you're thinking about expansion, how do I go where I go?
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You got to figure out where you're at right now.
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If you don't know where you're at, please
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do not try to go somewhere else.
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Welcome to the Spiro podcast.
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Managing your real estate photography and videography business
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with your hosts, Todd Kivimaki
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and Craig Magrum.
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Hi, and welcome to the Spiro podcast,
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managing your real estate photography and videography business.
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A Spiro is a software platform.
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You might have heard of us before.
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It's designed to help you manage your day to day business,
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but even more importantly, help you scale your business.
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And that's actually
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what we're going to be talking about this week is the foundations for scaling
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and some really good information that Todd's going to be sharing with us.
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And speaking of Todd, welcome to the podcast,
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co-host, owner and founder of Spiro.
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Todd Kivimaki
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Hello.
1:00
It's fabulous to be here and excited about this topic today.
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It is kind of the idea of why we started this podcast
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And it came from a question, a user question, so
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or a listener question and excited to share that today.
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I thought about it a little bit after I had the conversation
1:18
with this individual.
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This individual emailed in and said, Hey, can I just pick your brain?
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we have this question.
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And so we took a call. It was a great call.
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And then I thought about the topic a little bit more.
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I thought, Oh, there's, there might be some nuggets in here for you all today.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean we've talked about, you know, how to grow
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business, how to approach sales and consulting and, and things like that.
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But I think it's going to
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touch on some different things this week and have some good conversation.
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Todd and I were talking before the recording of the podcast here
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just about our own experiences and,
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you know, how would we do things differently? And
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yeah,
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it's going to be a good conversation this week that, Todd. I'm looking forward to it.
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- It will be - so.
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All right.
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Well, before we dive into that,
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we always like to give you guys some updates on Spiro.
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So Todd, what's what's going on with the software?
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Yeah.
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So you would have just received a few new updates with reshoots,
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the On my Way button and important reports for a year, we're working on video hosting
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where we're going to put that through streamlining a couple other processes.
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So all good things coming
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there is the feedback board in the upper right hand corner.
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So click on that inside of Spiro and let us know what you want.
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We do it. We honestly do.
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It's like it doesn't fall on deaf ears. We do it.
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If you look at that feedback board the top cards,
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we have been just crossing them off.
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So we love your feedback. We really do.
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This is one of the most enjoyable things about this experience
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and is talking with all of you and getting to know all of you.
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And I want to say thank you to all of you as well.
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We looked at numbers.
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We have one year of reporting numbers with Spiro
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when we are tracking in this new reporting system.
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And one year ago to today,
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we have done 16x in our size of what we've done.
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So I'm so blessed for that.
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And thank you for all the support and the ride.
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It's been crazy to be on. So thank you for that.
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Yeah, truly humbling.
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Yeah, incredibly humbling. Yeah.
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I don't want to downplay that, but yes, super, super appreciative.
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if Spiro works for you.
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Can I just ask that you tell others maybe a quick post.
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You don't need to go shout it everywhere, but if you see something online
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and if somebody ask about a delivery software and you feel
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one way about Spiro just please, just if you post it, it helps us.
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And honestly, it helps in a way
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that as we grow and scale, we have also scaled the team.
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So there's new names and new faces and it just gives us more capacity
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and allows us to grow into more capacities to serve you better,
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for sure.
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It was kind of funny, Todd, This morning
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I was looking through
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one of the Facebook groups and they were asking about, you know,
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software company and asking about a particular company. And
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there wasn't a ton of responses yet, but our name wasn't in there.
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I so bad.
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Wanted to mention our name, but we tried to respect the rules
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of not doing self-promotion.
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So yeah, we ask you if you would, if you would,
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you know, mention Spiro as as people are looking for solutions, software
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solutions to help them manage and grow and scale their business So thank you
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that those of you that that do that, we really do appreciate it.
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Yeah.
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And just to be transparent, because I'm all about transparency,
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we want to grow more because we want to bring on one more senior engineer.
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Okay, We already have a couple of engineers
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on the team, but we want to bring one more on
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and that will directly relate to more updates
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and faster updates for you, bigger updates, things like that.
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So that's our goal.
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We want to bring you those features.
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Heck, I want to for my own cup, we want them.
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Craig and I want him for wow.
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We use this every, every day.
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So that is just transparent.
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That's what we want to do.
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We want to scale that revenue
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a little bit more so that we can add on and we want to keep going.
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Yeah, and I get to use Spiro on both sides of
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of the experience of a real estate photography company.
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So I'm both a photographer, so I'm using the photographer portal
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to check in, you know, check into jobs and give updates and whatnot.
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So I get that side of the software, but I'm also a business
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development specialist, so I get to use the reports and metrics
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and, you know, go into the orders and be able to do all of that.
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And it's it's fantastic to be able to respond
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quickly to clients needs with a software solution
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that is just so streamlined and designed very specifically for what we do.
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So yeah, it's we're using this ourselves.
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I use it every day.
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On a quick little pivot, Craig, just to mention this is
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this is launching pre the Vegas convention,
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so just want to say myself the team will be there.
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Craig is not going to be able to make it this year but myself
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Shannon and Nick and Jess and Steve will be there.
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So please come find us.
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We love to talk to you.
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I want to take a picture with you.
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I want to hear about your business. I want to hear about your life.
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So come and find me will be at both conferences
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and yeah, the 12th through 16th in Vegas.
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I just had a goofy idea.
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I don't even know why this popped into my head, but I can't be there.
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But could I send with you like a cardboard cut out and you can just put a picture
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of the cardboard cutout of myself in the in the, in the booth.
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You know, we could put that up there.
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We could put you in the back. Yeah.
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Do you have a I want a life sized cardboard cut out though.
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I don't. I could work on that.
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I think I have I think from the Star Wars movie, I think I have a Chewbacca cutout.
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Maybe I can go from when I was a kid.
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Would just paste your face up on there. Right.
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And the edited version with the
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the face tattoos.
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right the face tattoos
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might be a draw to bring people that, hey,
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- I'm going to get the face tattoo picture with Craig - Yeah, maybe we'll let people
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draw a face tattoo on you at the conference.
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Okay. I'm sorry.
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This got weird. real quick.
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Usually not about anyway.
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Anyway. Okay.
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Should we dive into our topic?
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- Let's get it going - before this goes totally off the rails.
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All right, so talking about the foundations
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for scaling your business, and you might be the person
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that says, Yeah, but I don't really want to scale that big.
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I was kind of in that that camp myself with with my own business.
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I was I liked the more boutique approach.
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However, even even with a boutique approach, though, Todd
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I'm going to go back to when I first started my business.
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I figured out trying to do everything by myself was a no go.
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There was no way I was going to be able to to
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run that business to actually support myself
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because I could only do like two shoots a day.
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Then go home.
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edit, try and turn that around in one business day and just there was no way.
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So, you know, you and I talked and you introduced there
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it didn't even have a name yet, but the the software that would allow me
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to scale my business to the point where once they started
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using it, I was able to start doing six and sometimes seven listings a day.
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Mm hmm.
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That made it feasible for then to support myself
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and my family with this business that I had just launched.
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So even if you're a boutique type of real estate photography company,
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you need something to help you manage and grow your business and scale.
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So that's what we're going to talk about, is what are those foundations?
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Where do you need to start to start building and growing your business?
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So Todd, I don't know exactly where you necessarily
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want to jump this off at, but let’s dive into it.
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Yeah.
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So I like I mentioned at the top of the show, I,
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I had the listener emailed in and said, Hey, really like to talk to Todd.
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And the team connected me and we had a conversation and this couple
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was in business, I believe, for about a year and they were doing,
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they were having about
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their best month yet and I think they were around 14k
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- that's awesome. - Yeah, it was great.
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I mean, really dynamic husband and wife team,
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a a younger family.
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So had a two year old and they wanted to talk about scaling.
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And they said, you know, even in the email to me that they were obsessed
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with scaling and wanted some insight from me about how we scaled.
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And so one thing that I, I remind everybody is
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I've done this for 20 years now.
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So, yes, we do upwards of 13,000 shoots a year, millions of dollars in revenue.
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And we have a large staff and a very large photography team.
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And we have systems and processes and we have buildings and we have all of that.
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But it took 20 years.
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20 years is a long time.
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So just that's, that's the perspective that I want to try to bring the day to be
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my 20 year old self and go, wait a minute, let's just, let's look back.
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So but that kind of set the ah,
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that got me thinking about the topic a little bit more. And
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you know, one thing that I wanted
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to start the conversation off with was the idea of clarity.
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Yeah.
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How clear are you on
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where you are going as a coach?
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Give me the analogy of where is the ship headed,
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you know, and the ships headed.
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You know, if you make a lot of little my new
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steering changes,
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you can make enough in the wrong way that the overall course of travel
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is affected in a way that you don't realize it
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If you ever if you look down at your feet and walk,
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you don't know that one.
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That's not a great way to walk.
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And none of us walk like that. Right?
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Because you have to look ahead to see which way you're going.
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And if you're not
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clear with your goals and your business,
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then you're literally looking down at your feet walking.
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You might just be walking yourself circles
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or a way you don't want to go.
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And this is one thing that, as historically
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I have not been great at is clarity of direction.
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And I knew I wanted to scale.
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I knew I wanted to go, and sometimes my lack of clarity
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just allowed me to put my hands over my eyes and just go.
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I call it my stupidity and it worked.
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Sometimes it didn't work
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and that is what I want you to first start off with.
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Like if you're like, Hey, I really want to scale.
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I want to ask you a few questions like, Are you?
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Like, I'm not saying that's admirable.
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That's one of our goals too, growth is fun.
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I think most people would say growth is fun.
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And another thing there is you have to define growth
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because even in your example, Craig, of not wanting
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that of wanting to be more boutique, there was growth.
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I'm sure that you were doing every day.
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It didn't mean you were going to add
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ten people to your team, but there was growth,
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right
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You know what, what ways would a boutique, you know,
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you were growing in what ways?
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Well, I mean, I was growing in number of clients, obviously,
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but I was growing an experience, you know, learning things.
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I couldn't I had no way of knowing except going through the process.
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I was growing in how to how to interact with clients.
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You know, what made me different than other photographer,
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you know, photography companies out there?
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I would say your efficiency, you mentioned your efficiency.
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You were you were getting your time back.
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Right?
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Right. In time was huge because I came from
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I don't know if it's too early
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to talk about this or not, but that efficiency of time was huge
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because I came from a career where I was managing a radio station and
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I when I own something,
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whether I literally own it or not, but when I'm in charge of something
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or have responsibility for something, I go all in.
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And when I was managing this radio station, I felt the burden
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of the the leadership, the burden of the success of that radio station.
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And this was, you know, point how long ago was this?
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2012?
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I think it was so family.
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My family was young.
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My oldest was only about two or three years old at the time, and he's 19 now.
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Man, I feel old anyway,
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but I dove into leading that radio station
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both feet in, I jumped in and I was putting in 70 hours a week now.
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So some of well, yeah, but for some people there were like 70 hours.
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Yeah.
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That's what you should be doing as a leader.
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Well,
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maybe for seasons,
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maybe for certain times where you have a lot going on.
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But I made it.
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I made it a rule rather than an exception.
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And and Todd, I will tell you that giving all of my time
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during that time was the absolute worst thing I could have done for my family.
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It was the hardest time on my wife and my marriage.
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It was hard on my relationship with my son.
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And I just I think it had an impact on his perception of nonprofit
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and ministry type work because it was it was a Christian radio station.
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I was I was leading and managing.
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And I think he got he got a little bit of a negative,
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you know, negative view of what ministry work was because dad was never home.
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And when dad was when Dad was home, he wasn't home
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because I was thinking about work and what I still needed to happen.
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Right.
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So I think in starting my own business,
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I thought back to that time of leading the radio station
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and I thought, I don't want to make the same mistake in my management
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of my time that I did when I was at the radio station.
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But I still have the the onus of ownership
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or the responsibility of ownership and providing for my family.
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So how do I balances where I'm not throwing myself in
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as much with my commitment of time,
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but still make enough
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to survive financially, to take care of my family?
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That I mean, those are real questions we all deal with.
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But it's easy to trade the time for the money
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and just have that hustle.
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You know, as Americans especially, we just have
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this independence mindset where it's all on us.
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I'm going to make this happen by myself and this hard work
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ethic that, you know, that our parents taught us and and whatnot.
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And that's how I was wired.
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My dad put in a lot of hours.
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That was the example I saw.
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And I you know, that was that was what I was taught.
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You got to work hard.
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You do have to work hard.
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I'm not saying you don't work hard.
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I feel like I'm rambling right now, but that that growth in mindset of
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maturing and realizing is not all about
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throwing in all with your time.
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There's a balance.
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Yeah.
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You said something there that really, really resonated with me, as you know that
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when you were home, you weren't at home.
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No, I wasn't.
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And that's the idea of and I see myself many times
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throughout the years of not being present when I'm at home.
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Yeah.
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And your spouse will pick up on that.
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Your kids will pick up on that.
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And just be aware of it.
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So I say this from a place of love in my heart.
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To all of you out there, just be aware of it.
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If you're like, Hey, that's not me, just examine it one more time
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and just make sure.
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Might be worth asking your
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spouse, you know, Hey, yeah, My present
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Do you feel like when I'm home,
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you have my attention that I'm.
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I'm here for you and supporting the family.
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And your question might be a little bit different
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if you're in a different stage of your life.
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You know, there's
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the idea of being clarity
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or being the idea of being clear, excuse me, is starting
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with the end in mind.
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And that is the same idea of not looking down at your feet while you walk.
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But if we start with the end in mind,
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the perspective changes a little bit
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had a coach.
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Say this, give me this analogy or give me this line once and I wrote it down.
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I'm sharing it with you all today because it really it really struck home with me.
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But when you're young,
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you'll trade all of your time for money,
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right?
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You’ll hustle, You’ll grind.
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You're trying to get to 10k 14k
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50k 300k
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you're trying to get there and the time is indifferent to you
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because you're young, because you have it
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However,
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when you're old,
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you will trade all of your money for time.
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Think about that
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when you're at the end of your life
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and you know that
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your days are limited, you'll trade everything
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for more days, more days with your family, more good days with your friends.
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You'll trade everything.
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I think life is just so interesting.
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I, I think about things like that in my life.
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My mind begins to sometimes do like this endless loop where I think about that.
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It's just fascinating, the difference.
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Think about it.
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You know, 20, 34 is even fifties.
18:52
And if you're building, you're focused.
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You're like, Todd, I'm clear on it. I'm going to build this thing.
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But if you're trading your time
19:00
for just that money, that's why I want you to start with the end in mind.
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What would your 70, 80, 90 year old self want?
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And that's such a conundrum, Craig. like that question doesn't make any sense.
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How do I know what my 90 year old self wants?
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I'm going to be old and angry.
19:16
Yeah, I'm going to be yelling
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I'm going to be yelling at kids to get off my lawn is what I'm going to be doing.
19:23
Yeah, but isn't that just so crazy how life can be like that?
19:26
Well, I just.
19:27
I'm thinking about my father in law right now, Todd, You.
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You know Phil?
19:31
Yes, he's. He's a retired.
19:34
Retired executive.
19:36
Did very well in life. Very generous guy.
19:39
One of the most generous people I know.
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And the last five years especially,
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I would say he's he's been retired for quite, quite a few years now.
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But the last five years, especially,
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he has just stressed so much
19:53
how much he values the time with us as his family.
19:57
And I mean, he’ll invite us over for dinner and we'll just go.
20:01
We only live 10 minutes from them.
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So it's kind of, you know, it's convenient.
20:05
We get to see them quite a bit, but we'll just go over to join him for dinner.
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And every time, no joke, he will.
20:12
He will make the effort to thank us for coming to eat dinner with him.
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We're like, You don't need to thank us.
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He said, Yes, I do, because I value the time with you and I wish I would have.
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He has made the comment before.
20:26
He wished
20:27
he would have realized that sooner in life because he put in a lot of hours.
20:31
He was you know, he was a very successful executive.
20:36
But he's like, I don't need things.
20:38
So, you know, Christmas time, birthdays, you know, it's not about the stuff.
20:42
Don't worry about a gift.
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He's not concerned with that.
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He just wants to spend time
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with his daughter, his son in law, with his two grandsons,
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and just watching him express that
20:54
and see seeing the time that he takes
20:56
with with friends, with other family.
20:59
Yeah, I really admire that.
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It's you know, it's not that we
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we don't try and build something good in our businesses
21:08
because we do need that income to be able to to live on
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and to hopefully pass on to to new generations.
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But how much
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Todd, do you mind if I share a scripture that has been kind of foundational in my life?
21:20
- Please, I'd love it - again.
21:24
Most of you know we have a faith background.
21:26
We never try and push that on anybody, but this is core to who I am
21:30
and what I learned, what I've been learning, you know, through my career.
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And it comes from the book of Proverbs chapter 30.
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And the writer here starting verse seven says,
21:42
Oh God, I beg two favors from you.
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Let me have them before I die.
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First, help me never to tell a lie.
21:50
That's interesting.
21:51
You know, in a culture that is all about
21:55
I mean, look at our political scene, right?
21:57
Anyway, I'll stop there.
21:59
Second,
22:00
now, some of you might push back on this, but this this has struck me deeply.
22:05
Second, give me neither poverty nor riches.
22:10
Give me just enough to satisfy my needs for
22:13
if I grow rich, I may deny you and say, Who's the Lord?
22:17
And if I'm too poor, I may steal and thus insult God's holy name.
22:22
Now, the
22:24
the one pushback, and I think God makes exception for this
22:28
not to get into preaching mode, but I can't help it.
22:31
God does give us the ability to earn wealth.
22:34
It says that in the book of Deuteronomy
22:36
he does give the gift of giving to some individuals
22:39
where they're just very generous people and they're able to fund some incredible
22:43
work in this world.
22:44
I think my father in law is one of those guys.
22:47
He just has this generous spirit in this gift of giving that goes
22:51
beyond what what many people have in God has blessed him financially.
22:56
Right. So it's not about
22:58
you can't be rich, but why are you pursuing finances?
23:03
Why is that important to you?
23:06
And I'm kind of of the mindset word that, you know,
23:09
this is where you and I have a little bit of a difference.
23:11
I think you're kind of like my father
23:12
in law in that you have a scale scaling a growth mindset.
23:16
And in mine was a little bit smaller and I'm kind of like, God, yeah, I don't
23:21
I don't need great riches to be happy or content,
23:25
but I also don't want the struggle of
23:27
financially being poor all the time.
23:30
And under that anxiety and stress.
23:32
So it's finding that balance.
23:34
What the why of your it ties into your clarity.
23:39
What's the purpose of your growth mindset?
23:42
What's the purpose of your scaling?
23:44
And the purpose all comes back to tying that together for you.
23:49
I think I've share on the podcast a time or two that I am
23:55
motivated by money.
23:58
When I look back over the course of the 20 years, why did I start something?
24:02
Why did I sell friendship bracelets on the bus when I was five?
24:06
Because I wanted to make money.
24:07
Why did I sell?
24:08
I sold glow sticks at football games, I sold CDs, I sold crafts.
24:15
every time I started
24:16
so many little businesses in my life because the goal was to make money.
24:20
And I took a personality
24:22
profile test not too long ago, while this was a few years now,
24:26
but I was reading the results and is like, Oh, this sounds terrible.
24:31
I hated like, Wow, this is terrible.
24:34
Like, I, I struggle with it and,
24:37
and I'm, we're in a small group and I had shared that like,
24:40
I was struggling with this idea of like, why am I so focused on money?
24:44
Like, that is terrible.
24:46
And the people in the group,
24:49
you know, they just brought the point that it's okay
24:53
to have money and to make money.
24:56
And by no means am I rich.
24:58
I mean, I am very blessed.
25:00
We live a good life, but we are still working every day,
25:04
you know, to make sure that we can,
25:07
you know, provide for the family.
25:10
But it's and what your goals
25:13
are with those intentions.
25:17
And that really made me realize, Craig, I'm going to go
25:21
I'm going to go to the complete opposite end of the spectrum, the quote of a quote.
25:25
So I love the quote, you know, proverb, smartest man ever, you know,
25:30
with quoting that Now I'm going to go way different here.
25:33
I'm going to quote the Notorious B.I.G.
25:39
Okay.
25:41
And this is something like this is some.
25:44
Yeah, this is way different. You’re going Todd
25:46
where are you going with this?
25:47
I'm saving this podcast forever.
25:51
But Notorious B.I.G. Said
25:55
the mo money you have,
25:58
the mo problems, you have. something like that.
26:02
That's in a very kind of dorky kid saying, But listen to the song.
26:07
The more that you have, the
26:09
- more problems that come - there’s truth of that
26:13
and that say, then that said, way better
26:15
by, you know, Jesus in the Bible, many people in the Bible.
26:19
But I just wanted to give the opposite ends of the spectrum, like Biggie Smalls.
26:24
He said that. And it's so true.
26:25
I think about that.
26:26
You know, I think about when I'm looking for
26:28
things are like, Oh, this would be the next greatest thing
26:30
and what what can I buy?
26:31
And what I think about that, Like, why do I want this?
26:35
And my focus when my focus is on consuming,
26:40
that's when
26:43
the idea of being too focused on making money
26:45
can be a problem, at least from my experience.
26:49
I know in life when my focus is on
26:52
serving and helping others, that's when I feel good.
26:56
Yeah.
26:58
Yeah.
26:59
It's like you buy something.
27:00
It's like, Oh goodness.
27:01
Like, yeah, it was cool, but now I have to take care of it.
27:04
it needs oil change, it needs this, it needs that.
27:05
And it's like, holy cow, like how many things?
27:08
And now I'm just maintaining all of these things.
27:11
This needs mode, that needs trim, this needs service. winter eyes.
27:15
It's like, Wait a minute, Todd, what are you doing?
27:19
Yeah, well you rather spend that time with people you love.
27:21
I mean, we're going extremely philosophical today, but I want to.
27:26
I just truly, from the bottom of my heart, want to stress this is
27:30
and this is something I wish I would have had when I was 20 or 30
27:33
or even 35 or last year, up 40.
27:36
You know, it's it's something that
27:39
almost you can't understand in your youth.
27:42
I don't I didn't think that deeply about it when I was younger.
27:46
I was just looking at I was just looking at my account balance
27:48
and going, God, we're going to go broke here.
27:52
Yeah.
27:53
And you know, your hustle, you work hard.
27:55
There is a place for that.
27:57
We want you to understand. There is a place for that.
27:59
We are called to work hard, right?
28:01
We do have responsibilities,
28:04
but it's so easy to lose sight of the why
28:07
key in on the why on your clarity.
28:10
Yeah, well, yeah, so I'm on the back of that, Craig.
28:14
So there's, there's two different mindsets that we all can have.
28:17
We can have either A an abundance mindset
28:20
or a scarcity mindset as B
28:23
Crazy how your perspective changes
28:27
with each of those mindsets.
28:30
Well, you know, let's start with scarcity and think of that fight or flight mode,
28:34
Craig just mention that, Oh my goodness, I don't know where
28:37
we're going to get money from, but he had a whole bunch of time.
28:40
As opposed to the flip of that, if you have an abundance
28:42
mindset, you're like, Well, I have all this time.
28:45
What can I go create?
28:46
There's a ton of opportunity out there for me.
28:51
So what kind of mindset do you have?
28:52
Do you have an abundance mindset or a scarcity mindset?
28:56
Todd, let me ask you this question Do you think that ties into
28:58
like your self reception
29:01
what you think about yourself, even
29:05
because, like,
29:06
let me give you an example.
29:07
You said you were out there selling glow sticks and and friendship bracelets and
29:13
the idea you had some
29:15
it sounds like you were a pretty confident kid
29:19
I was. I was.
29:21
Okay. I think there's a tie in there.
29:23
You had some natural confidence in yourself and you were out there.
29:28
All sorts of ideas.
29:29
You didn't see the limits.
29:31
I'm going to be a little bit vulnerable here.
29:33
I grew up the nerd, okay?
29:36
I was the kid that was picked on a lot in school.
29:38
I was the band geek, you know, I was the smart kid, you know, the nerd.
29:42
I was the church boy. I got picked on a lot.
29:45
And I did not have really hardly any self-confidence.
29:50
And I never dreamed about entrepreneurship
29:53
or business opportunities or how I could succeed in business.
29:57
I was constantly doubting myself.
30:00
And so I didn't.
30:01
I had a scarcity mindset, scarcity mindset about myself,
30:06
but also how, how,
30:08
how can I be successful, You know?
30:12
So and we really are going philosophical, aren't we?
30:17
It's good, though.
30:18
It does go back to mindset and I'm going I'm going to pull in one more,
30:23
one more verse that has been foundational and helping me transform
30:27
my thinking comes from Deuteronomy chapter eight, verse 18.
30:31
But remember the Lord your God for it is He who gives you
30:33
the ability to produce wealth and so confirms his covenant,
30:37
which he swore to your ancestors as it is today.
30:41
God gives us the gifts and the talents that we have.
30:44
And my problem was I didn't recognize that.
30:47
I didn't recognize that God had given me gifts and talents.
30:50
And instead of listening to him and what his truth about me
30:54
was, his purpose for me was I was listening to everybody around me.
30:58
Craig, you're a nerd, you're a geek.
30:59
You're you know, you don't have any gifts, blah, blah, blah.
31:02
Todd, on the other hand, had an inherent confidence in himself
31:06
whether he recognized it was God or not, I don't know.
31:10
We've never actually discussed that, Todd. But
31:13
if you understand that you have value,
31:16
you as a person, even as an adult listening to this right now,
31:20
maybe you struggle with confidence issues, you have value and purpose.
31:23
You are created with purpose.
31:25
We truly believe that.
31:27
And so God gives every one of us gifts and talents
31:31
that can be used for some incredible good in this world.
31:34
And so you just got to shift your thinking and key
31:38
in on that, on that clarity that Todd has talked to us about.
31:42
What is the purpose of your life?
31:43
What can you do with the gifts and the talents that you have?
31:46
And maybe you have great gifts and talents for starting a business,
31:49
but you've you've held back a little bit.
31:51
Don't hold back.
31:53
You have incredible purpose and value.
31:57
The impact you
31:57
can have on realtors in their day to day stresses.
32:01
You you get to be a voice of encouragement in the life
32:05
of another business person.
32:07
and think about not only that, but the tools.
32:10
If you want something even a little more granular
32:13
is just the tools that you can provide them.
32:16
You know, we had a story I heard a win
32:19
this week of an agent that we were working with
32:23
and has worked with us for quite some time, and she was listing
32:27
a property on a lake about 45 minutes away
32:31
and she happens to have a place on the lake,
32:33
but she competes with agents from bigger cities,
32:37
much larger cities on the lake, and they have places on the lake too.
32:40
And she happened to get it.
32:42
I think it was a 1.1 or 1.4.
32:44
And she told us she attributed it to the fact
32:47
that she used our media and she thinks that was what closed.
32:51
It was the fact that she was going to do the photos, the video, the drone,
32:54
and how she was going to market the property.
32:57
You know, those are all just the little wins where
32:59
take those and don't take them for granted.
33:02
I think the world wants us to push those down and say, Oh, who cares?
33:05
Everybody's doing that.
33:06
No, not everybody's doing that.
33:07
You can impact the world in a positive way.
33:10
I mean, that abundance mindset and just keeping those thoughts high,
33:14
you know, a saying we use around here is keeping your thoughts above the line,
33:19
you know,
33:20
above the line, and that's positivity that all goes to abundance.
33:23
And for you pessimist out there, I know what you're saying.
33:27
Oh, Todd you know, but I would just
33:31
just plead with you if you see it as the glass being half full.
33:36
The world changes.
33:38
It really does. So,
33:43
yeah, I've had a couple of meetings with with new clients this week
33:47
that I would I'm shifting the season, slowing down, so I'm shifting
33:51
more into my business development mode.
33:53
And this year I told Steve, our Director of Sales,
33:58
I really want to focus in on education
34:01
for both are current clients and new clients on how to best use
34:05
the services that we've got for them because I want them to be successful.
34:08
I told the one realtor this
34:12
is a two days ago.
34:13
She's just got licensed in April and already has had three listings,
34:19
but she talked a little bit about the challenge of,
34:21
you know, marketing budget and just, you know, just starting off.
34:24
And I said, Yeah, I remember that myself.
34:26
When I started my business, I was afraid to spend money.
34:28
But I realized after buying my drone, I need to spend money to make money.
34:32
And she starts shaking her head, Yeah, I realize that.
34:35
I said, That's where I like helping new agents.
34:39
And yes, you do have to spend some money.
34:40
It's a little scary at first, but the investment you make in your marketing
34:44
with all these extra tools that we include beyond just the photos
34:47
and video, you know, the marketing tool kit and, you know, we went through that.
34:52
You have a leg up on the other new realtor that is afraid to spend the money
34:57
in moving your business forward and getting those higher tier listings.
35:01
You know, your goal is to earn more, right?
35:04
Well, yeah, and it was just awesome
35:07
to be able to help somebody and yeah, look at it.
35:10
You might have the same services of another real estate media company,
35:14
but it's all in how you present it in really wanting to help your client win.
35:20
You're not just a photographer.
35:21
So yeah, keep that positive mindset and the clarity of what's
35:24
the goal of your business.
35:27
Obviously, yes, we want to make money, but if you have a servant mentality
35:31
of really wanting to celebrate people's successes and be a part of that,
35:36
they will they will just be attracted to you.
35:40
and they'll be happy to refer you too
35:43
Yeah, referrals are the best.
35:45
They are, they are
35:49
so thinking about
35:51
now say you're clear on what you want to do
35:54
and say you're
35:58
looking towards pointing the ship on scaling.
36:01
Yeah.
36:02
Let's just go over a few practical things today of, of some checklist items of
36:07
let's make sure there's no cracks in the foundation before we start to scale.
36:11
So let's go back to the call that I had earlier this week and the couple
36:17
wanted to scale and their situation was they had a local admin
36:24
doing some client
36:25
acquisition, so they were doing the Instagram method
36:30
and also they were emailing for
36:32
some outreach and primarily the husband was doing
36:36
most of the shooting and the wife was coordinating.
36:40
So that's what the team look like.
36:42
And they wanted to scale and they had a contact in a city a few hours away.
36:47
In this contact, it would be really good.
36:49
Creative could do the job of real estate photography
36:53
and wanted to think about the viability of starting there.
36:57
And so I was like, okay, that's fabulous.
36:59
Love The idea of scaling.
37:00
That's kind of how we scaled.
37:02
You know, we went to adjacent cities.
37:05
The thing that I want you to check is just the foundation at this point.
37:08
So what is your market share?
37:14
And this was a number
37:14
that they didn't know off the top of their head.
37:17
They had guessed they were in a smaller market, I think a market of around
37:21
150,000 people in the greater market.
37:24
And that's about an hour north and south.
37:27
So that's a pretty large market.
37:28
So not a incredibly dense population.
37:33
And they thought they were maybe doing 40% market share.
37:37
And so I just encourage them to actually find out that number.
37:42
Yeah.
37:43
So breaking that down for you all, what the market share
37:46
is, if you're going, hey, what's this market share number?
37:48
The market share is basically the percentage of new listings in a period.
37:53
So for one month that you are getting jobs for that you're shooting.
37:58
So if the
38:01
total market has 100 new listings
38:03
and you did ten of them, you have a 10% market share.
38:08
So one figure that you have is the number of shoots,
38:11
you know that already that's inside of Spiro.
38:13
Go down to metrics and that is displayed for you right there.
38:17
So you'll see the number of shoots this month, the date and this year to date.
38:20
And then you can go back and see any period.
38:23
But the number that's a little bit tricky to get that
38:26
we can't automatically give you is the number of total new listings.
38:31
So that's how many
38:33
homeowners list their house in your market each month.
38:37
And we have found out that you can find this a couple of different places.
38:42
We have most luck with getting number from the local board of Realtors.
38:48
This is a public number that they typically publish in a monthly newsletter
38:53
and they take all of the data and we find that
38:56
that is a pretty good source of truth to get that total new listing number.
39:02
One thing that I would just encourage you to do is whatever source
39:06
you find this number with, always go back to that source.
39:10
You don't want to pick the local board one month and then count new listings
39:13
on Realtor.com or Zillow, the not next, and then ask a realtor the month
39:17
after that, because all of those sources might be looking at different data points.
39:22
And you know, what do they consider a expired listing
39:25
that comes back on is the coming soon and a new listing.
39:28
How is that viewed in the market? You know, is that two?
39:31
Is that one listing things like that?
39:34
So make sure you use the same data source.
39:38
The tough thing about this is that it's a trailing number,
39:42
meaning if you whoever you get this from, it's going to be a month, two or three
39:47
or in the case of if you're in a small city like us
39:49
and one of our markets in Lima is like eight months behind.
39:53
So yeah, so this is a number that you need to get
39:58
and you need to find one source and be consistent with it.
40:02
This individual that I talked to on the call, heck,
40:04
he was a realtor, so he had access to this in the MLS.
40:08
If you know a realtor, this is numbers that they have there.
40:11
Their managers or brokers probably share them with this on a weekly level
40:16
and they have access to the data
40:17
much quicker than what we have found that the local board will post.
40:22
So you get that total number of listings number
40:25
and then you just divide the listings you've done by that or vice versa.
40:30
And we will do that for you in Spiro.
40:32
So in the metric section, go to settings and you'll see in that settings
40:37
that there's a market share number and put the total number of new listings
40:41
in that market.
40:42
And then your dashboard will update and it will show you your market share.
40:46
And this is a percentage number.
40:49
So this is the percent of the market that you own.
40:52
So that's the first thing is understanding is there growth potential
40:56
where I'm at. now in most of our markets that we're in,
41:01
we I think we have a blended market share percentage of
41:05
I think almost 9%, a little less than 10%.
41:09
So if you think about that
41:11
and we're in some fairly large markets, some really large markets,
41:14
but there is an incredible amount of potential.
41:17
And those markets that we are all in and I'm not quite sure
41:22
what the output outcome was of this couple I talked to find
41:26
the market share and their percentage.
41:28
I just guess that it was lower than 40% because I think we
41:33
think we've talked to all the realtors and we've
41:36
checked every angle, but there is a ton of potential out there.
41:39
Even Craig, in the market.
41:40
You've been in there, you've been there many years.
41:41
I see. And now with wow.
41:44
I mean, what type of potential are you finding every day?
41:47
There's still plenty.
41:49
There's still plenty.
41:51
I think I think the last
41:53
two years,
41:55
my market is our market share up
41:57
here has grown, I think close to 2%. And
42:03
I always get down on myself about numbers.
42:06
You know, the number of daily shoots
42:09
I attended focused too much into the nitty gritty details.
42:13
But if I look at the bigger picture, the market share is growing.
42:17
So it's like, you know, Steve and Chris, you know, Craig, you're doing okay.
42:22
Look at the big picture.
42:23
You're growing, keep doing what you're doing.
42:26
So yeah, that that market share number is huge.
42:29
And the thing to remember about a market share number is you only have to grow it
42:33
a little bit
42:34
and that's a lot of new listings because if you're if your board
42:38
had two or 300 listings in your market that month and some of you are in areas
42:42
that they're much more than that, you grow a small percentage of that
42:45
and that's a big number.
42:46
So that one can kind of for you
42:48
a little bit because I always 2% like no that was a lot of shoots.
42:51
Yeah. Here's where my perspective got off.
42:53
So when I was my own business, I had shot just over
42:56
a thousand listings in a calendar year and I was like, That's amazing.
43:01
It was pretty good.
43:02
I was I was very happy.
43:04
But I never looked at my market share at that point.
43:06
I didn't know the number of total listings.
43:08
I was just looking at the number of jobs I had shot.
43:12
Now you look at this year and the number of jobs shot is actually less than that.
43:17
And so I'm comparing number of jobs shot from you know,
43:22
three years ago, two years ago
43:24
when the market was completely different to where it is today.
43:28
And I'm willing to bet that the market share that we have today in
43:31
in my market is probably higher than when I was running things on my own.
43:37
And it was a completely different market was pre-COVID.
43:40
You know, things were just different.
43:42
So you
43:43
can't look yes, your number of jobs is going to go up and down.
43:47
But look at the bigger picture because when things bounce back,
43:52
your number of jobs is probably going to shoot back up.
43:57
It is.
43:57
And the thing that you can't control as a real estate photographer, no matter
44:01
how hard you try, you cannot control how many new listings come on the market.
44:06
it is out of your control.
44:08
So like Craig mentioned, pre-COVID
44:11
and in the height of COVID
44:14
when number of new listings rocketed up
44:17
and then it ramped down, you had no control over yoyo of a market
44:23
But you can control your market share.
44:25
That's a consistent number based on the total number of listings.
44:29
Yeah
44:30
So that's an extremely important number
44:33
that tells you the true health of your business.
44:36
Another number is your average order value.
44:39
Those numbers that are under your control, that's a number that we look at
44:43
very heavily at.
44:44
Wow. It's also on your dashboard is in the top row.
44:47
But all these in the top row because they're the most important
44:50
are in your metrics dashboard excuse me.
44:52
And your average order value is the average price of your orders
44:57
that an agent will place.
45:00
So it sums up the total revenue divided by the number of orders
45:04
and on average your average order value
45:07
is 250 150 300 a thousand.
45:11
But that is a number that's under your control
45:14
and it's under your control because you can educate your clients.
45:18
You can help them understand
45:19
why they need to order more, how they will use that service.
45:22
So that is something that you can affect.
45:24
And Craig, I would say that that is one of the reasons
45:27
why you're having a lot of these meetings right now
45:29
is and you mentioned with the new agent you're educating.
45:32
Yeah, it's it's funny, you know, the last few weeks it seems like
45:36
I've had a lot more photo only jobs and I'm realizing, yeah, education.
45:41
I need to tell them the why of video.
45:44
You know, the economy is challenging right now.
45:46
We understand inflation is is a is a thing,
45:49
you know you're tempted to spend less, but when you spend less, you get into this
45:54
vicious cycle of your business just starting to spiral downwards.
46:00
Now, you know,
46:01
when economies are down, when things are down,
46:04
I, I believe, but maybe it's because I've worked
46:06
in the marketing and sales and advertising
46:10
industry for so long is when the economy is starting to spiral down.
46:14
That's when you need to double down on your marketing and your advertising
46:17
and the tools that help get your name out there.
46:21
Because when everybody else is wanting to spend less
46:24
and thus their name is not out there as much, the realtors, you know,
46:28
the realtors that spend less, their faces isn’t out there,
46:31
their presence isn't out there.
46:33
The realtors that do invest, they're going to they're going to pick up
46:36
more market share because they've doubled down on their marketing advertising.
46:40
So I need to
46:42
that's part of why I'm wanting to concentrate more on education,
46:45
especially over the next few months when things are slower
46:48
and really encourage people to think about the economic cycle and market share.
46:54
What can you do to be front of mind?
46:56
You know, when somebody does finally go to to list their home,
47:00
what tools are you investing in beyond the next realtor?
47:04
I had a shoot yesterday Todd where the the sellers were home and I told them,
47:09
I said, You made a great choice in choosing this realtor.
47:13
And I said, I've worked with her for quite a few years now.
47:15
She really does go above and beyond in the marketing that she does for you.
47:18
And she had ordered photos, video, drone and a floor plan.
47:22
I mean, she did four different things and the husband keyed up.
47:26
He said above and beyond.
47:28
That's what we picked up from her because we interviewed several agents
47:32
and she did she offered more and really set herself from these other agents.
47:38
And that's why we chose her.
47:39
- I said, Fantastic. - Yeah,
47:43
that's a
47:43
that's a that's a story I can tell other realtors.
47:46
Yeah. Yeah.
47:47
And that resonates with them because remember,
47:50
realtors track their market share too.
47:53
Yeah.
47:54
Yeah.
47:54
That's and they track their average list value.
47:57
Just like you track your average order value,
47:59
they track their average listing value.
48:01
So on average, do they list the $200,000 house, a $400,000 our house,
48:06
they want that to go higher, commissions higher, just like you want
48:10
your average order value to go higher because the profits higher.
48:13
Right.
48:14
So the first thing is, you need to figure out your market share.
48:17
So if you're thinking about expansion, how do I go where I go?
48:21
You got to figure out where you're at right now.
48:24
If you don't know where you're at, please
48:27
do not try to go somewhere else.
48:30
I've tried it.
48:31
it can get painful and costly.
48:35
You got to know where you're at.
48:37
So that's the first thing.
48:38
The second thing is you have to figure out
48:42
how you can take market share from your competition.
48:49
So this couple happened to
48:52
share with me that they had this local admin
48:55
and she was a college student
48:57
and they got really lucky with this college student
48:59
and she was doing some of the client acquisition.
49:02
And I suggested that
49:08
this husband and wife needed to take back
49:10
over the client acquisition, and they were completely open to that.
49:14
It's just you have to understand all of your skills out there.
49:18
Everybody has skills.
49:19
And I'm generalizing here
49:22
in the group
49:25
of real estate photographers, but I say as more creative people,
49:29
we tend to be potentially a little more introverted,
49:33
you know, creative and what your thoughts you're creating.
49:36
You are happy when you're creating
49:38
and it's out of your comfort zone
49:42
to go into somewhat sales mode.
49:45
Oh, sales,
49:47
but you are the face of your business just like we at Wow.
49:51
Tell our agents your face is your brand right now.
49:54
Your company, your face is your brand.
49:57
Yeah.
49:58
Okay.
49:59
Now we will pivot as you grow your pivot out of that.
50:02
So I, I at wow was the face of the company for many years and I've stepped
50:08
you know, I've put people in place of me now Craig is the face in his market
50:12
and Pam and Chris and Steve and Joy
50:16
and they know Jess and Brittany and all the people on our team.
50:19
But that's that's okay to know that that's your goal.
50:23
But you have to use your
50:27
current time and place and the features and benefits
50:30
of working with you to your advantage.
50:32
Right now, if you're a small team if it's you.
50:34
If it's you and your wife,
50:36
you need to use that and you need to sell the fact that you are.
50:39
It's just us. We're taking care of you.
50:41
This is how we're doing.
50:42
And then when you expand your team, you sell that, Hey,
50:45
we're here to serve you.
50:47
We're growing the team to better serve you.
50:49
So it's just a little bit switch of a narrative at that point.
50:53
Yeah,
50:54
but I challenge this couple.
50:55
I said,
50:55
You guys have to figure out how you take market share from that competition.
50:59
They had one competitor in the market that had that they heard the most
51:04
and they felt like they had a pretty good business going and it was tough.
51:09
They're like, Oh, they're so loyal to this person.
51:11
It's we call their agents and they're like, Oh,
51:14
we're just really loyal to this photographer.
51:16
I'm like, okay, well, that's okay.
51:18
We know we're at
51:20
you have a decent business that you need to compete with, and that's okay.
51:24
Competition is great, but you have to figure out how you take
51:27
market share away from this photographer.
51:29
and if you go back
51:30
and we weren't going to I mean, there's a million ways you can begin to do this.
51:34
But what I would suggest is you look at where
51:38
your strengths are at with connecting with people.
51:41
So as Craig has shared before, he does incredible
51:44
with one on one small meetings and he can build those relationships
51:47
and he can grow them like we shared before, is kind of the opposite.
51:50
Is joy and our Charlotte market.
51:53
She holds these huge events.
51:54
She puts them together like
51:56
it would take me a year to put one together to go,
51:58
Yeah, I think I might do it next Tuesday.
51:59
- I'm like, Wait a minute, Thursday? - How how?
52:02
Yeah, If she gets 100 people there and she has speakers
52:06
and presenters and giveaways and she arranges this whole thing.
52:10
Yeah.
52:10
So you really have to look at where you're strong
52:13
and don't feel pressure of how Craig or I would do it
52:16
Just find where you're comfortable, go a little bit above that,
52:21
go a little bit outside of that because being uncomfortable is good.
52:24
Push yourself and I push them.
52:27
I mean, this this husband and wife team happened to be they were gymnast
52:30
and like collegiate gymnasts I'm like, holy crap,
52:33
I've been doing flips or handstands everywhere.
52:35
Like literally, I don't know, like, I would everybody be knowing that like, I
52:40
like I'm six, seven.
52:40
I can barely do a somersault.
52:44
And that's a silly example, but I want you to understand
52:47
you have so many talents
52:50
and values and things that are valuable.
52:53
If you have an abundance or a scarcity mindset abundance, you probably realize
52:57
that scarcity or like, I don't know that I can beat that competition.
53:02
Well, I'm here to tell you today that you can and you can do it.
53:05
Just believe in yourself.
53:06
Change the mindset, Find out where someone has complimented
53:10
you and just keep doing that a little bit more.
53:12
Yeah, I would.
53:14
I would go as far as to say I don't even
53:17
I, I try not to focus on the competition that much.
53:21
I just, you know, if, if somebody is working
53:23
with, you know, a company X and I'm company Y over here
53:27
and they tell me I'm already working with so-and-so, great.
53:30
You know, if, if you ever need to back up, I'm here to serve
53:34
and I just stay in touch with that person and,
53:38
you know, I might have
53:39
a client that works with them in the same brokerage and,
53:43
you know, ask that client of mine to maybe refer me once in a while
53:46
to to the other person, but I just do the best job I can.
53:50
And again, that referral goes a long way
53:54
because at some point another company it
53:58
and we're guilty of this ourselves or we might have a mess
54:00
up and that agent
54:03
then remembers you well I'm going to I'm going to give them a shot.
54:07
You know,
54:09
don't worry too much about the competition is what I would say.
54:13
Craig, is that easy?
54:15
No, no.
54:17
Yeah, No, because, like, when I first started my business,
54:20
I really didn't have a ton of competition.
54:22
I mean, there were photographers doing real estate,
54:24
but there was no large companies.
54:26
When I stepped away from it for a year and a half, and then I came back,
54:30
I suddenly had like three major companies
54:32
in my market that were not there when I was previously.
54:36
I remember those phone calls with Ukraine.
54:38
- Yeah, I'm like, - You call me when you say the company name.
54:40
Like, Oh no, this one's going to be a real one.
54:42
Yeah. Like, okay, yeah.
54:43
I'm like, Yeah, that was scared to death.
54:46
I'm like, How am I going to rebuild this with
54:48
with these big companies that do what we do?
54:52
And I had to get myself out of that type of thinking.
54:55
It just go back to playing to my strengths and who did god create me to be.
55:00
Who is Craig?
55:01
Why did my clients work with me to begin with?
55:03
And I got back out there and lo and behold, business started growing again
55:08
and we're doing okay.
55:09
You know, we're doing okay.
55:11
Growing in market share. We're growing.
55:12
- I mean, it's been a fabulous year. So - very thankful.
55:15
So we hope you found some nuggets in this today.
55:18
I had my next pillar or my next foundation
55:22
builder is talking about financials, but we can get to that in a following podcast.
55:26
But I do want you to find out what your market share is.
55:29
This is a fabulous time. It's getting to be the end of the year.
55:32
What did you do this year?
55:34
Where are you at?
55:36
You have to know that.
55:38
You have to have to know that.
55:39
I cannot stress that enough.
55:42
And then you have to figure out where do you have some gaps?
55:44
How can you grow that market share
55:46
Foundations to scaling, you know, take care of the very first layer.
55:50
I like to I'm I'm on a 3D printing kick right now with my youngest son
55:55
and in 3D printing, the first layer that your printer puts down,
56:00
that first layer of melted plastic on the on the print bed
56:03
is the most important layer of the entire print.
56:08
If you don't get that first layer down
56:11
evenly, you know, melted correctly, sticking to the bed,
56:15
any subsequent layers after that are going to be all screwed up.
56:19
It's it's the same thing with our business.
56:22
If you don't get that foundation laid down solidly
56:26
in a healthy way, nothing else
56:28
you build on top of it is going to is ultimately going to survive.
56:32
It's going to crumble.
56:34
Foundations, foundations, Foundations.
56:36
Yeah. Well, well said. Yeah.
56:39
Cool.
56:40
Boy, I didn't realize as much time had gone by already, Todd.
56:43
But some good stuff this week.
56:45
And thanks for the insight in the story of this couple that you talked with.
56:50
yeah, and thank you for sharing.
56:51
I think it's important that we all examine these things in our lives
56:54
and they're not always the easiest to think about.
56:58
You know, that time in the morning when it's just you,
57:02
it's like, Oh, do I really want to think about where I'm at now?
57:05
Sometimes we run away from it because we're either a little bit
57:09
in the dark as to where we're at or we're not happy with where we're at.
57:12
But understanding it is the first step and, you know, the amount of focus
57:19
that you have will determine the amount of success that you have.
57:22
There you go.
57:23
Just remember, though, with all that intense focus on your business,
57:27
when you punch out for the day
57:29
and you go home to your family or your loved ones or whatever.
57:34
Turn the switch off.
57:36
Be present for the ones that you love.
57:38
I know it's tempting to be continually thinking
57:40
about your business and what you need to do in the next day,
57:43
but flip that switch off.
57:44
Be present for the people in your life.
57:46
Okay.
57:48
awesome
57:49
now turn us off and go be with your family.
57:52
Right. There you go.
57:53
There you go.
57:54
Hey, guys.
57:55
Thanks for tuning in. Another week, listening, watching on YouTube.
57:58
Wherever it is that you're picking up this podcast, we really do appreciate you.
58:01
If you found value in it, we ask you, please
58:04
send send us a like, share it,
58:07
mention the podcast in the in the online groups and whatnot.
58:10
That just helps us be about hopefully bringing some value to more
58:15
more real estate photography businesses in this industry
58:19
and really be a part of helping you grow and have a successful business in life.
58:24
Guys, take a breath.
58:25
Enjoy your week and we'll talk to you next week.
58:28
Take care.
58:29
Thank you for joining us for the Spiro podcast,
58:32
managing your real estate photography and videography business.
58:36
This is a production of Spiro and wow video tours.
58:39
You can find out more about Spiro
58:41
is real estate, media, business management software at our Web site.
58:45
spiro.media.