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Transcript

“The Freedom to Kill Workers Act.” · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: On today's pod, I talk to California congressional candidate Christy Smith,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: who's running in a special election here that's just a
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: few weeks away. Before that, we'll talk about how the
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Republican response to this pandemic has turned into a war
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: on workers. We'll dig into Justin Amash's potential third-party run
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: for president, and we'll cover new reporting about an allegation
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: of sexual assault made by a woman who worked for
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden in the 1990s. But first... Don't miss this
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: week's Pod Save the World, where Tommy and Ben figure
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: out whether North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is gravely ill
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: or just on a bender with Dennis Rodman. And they
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: walk through some good news about how countries around the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: world are beating the coronavirus and working to develop a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: vaccine quickly. Also, as part of our push for election safety,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: last week we asked you to send us videos telling
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: us why you need safer voting options. Thank you to
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: all of you who've already sent them. And if you haven't,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: please do keep them coming. We would love to share
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: your story. Text them over to us at 323-405-9944. Finally,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: there is a fantastic new video at youtube.com slash cricket
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: media starring the one and only Dan Pfeiffer. Dan, you
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: want to tell us about this video? Sure.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: The very.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Smart content people, or at least I previously thought they
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: were smart content people at Crooked Media, persuaded me that
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I should record a video. And the goal of the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: video is to break down political ads from both sides
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: of the aisle to help explain what's good about the ad,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: strategically good about the ad, strategically bad about the ads,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and what it tells us about how the campaigns are
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: seeing the race. So we did the first episode released yesterday,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: and we looked at ads from the Trump campaign, the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Biden campaign, and various super PACs about how they are
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: litigating the question of who is responsible and who is
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: closest to China as it relates to China's role in
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the coronavirus. And the goal, as we talked about in
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the video, because campaigns put money behind, they put limited
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: resources behind ads, they were a real window into what
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the campaign sees as their most valuable messages. So it
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: gives us a view of what they see as the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: strength of their own candidates, the weaknesses of their opponents,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and their path to victory. And so we did the
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: first one. If people like it, we are open to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: doing more. So stay tuned.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I hear it's going viral with the kids, Dan.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Elijah really, really suggested I do a TikTok, but I
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: didn't fully understand what that was. So we're doing YouTube.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So next time, a TikTok. It's really great. Everyone, please
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: go check it out. It's at youtube.com slash Crooked Media.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: All right. Here's where we are. On Tuesday, the death
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: toll from the coronavirus pandemic surpassed the number of Americans
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: we lost over two decades in the Vietnam War. On Wednesday,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: we learned that the economy suffered the worst contraction since
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the Great Recession. And a few hours later, this is
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: how White House Senior Advisor Jared Kushner characterized his father-in-law's
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: response to this crisis.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: We're on the other side of the medical aspect of this.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: And I think that we've achieved all the different milestones
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: that are needed. So the government, federal government rose to
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: the challenge. And this is a great success story.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Well, Dan, if there's anyone who can identify a success story,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: it's Jared Kushner, right?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I think we are being, people have really spent a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: lot of time over the last 24 hours dunking on
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Jared Kushner for this. They've called it his mission accomplished moment,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: referencing the infamous, uh, President George W. Bush banner at
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: the outset of the Iraq War. But I think it's
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: unfair to Jared Kushner in the sense that he has
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: never actually experienced success before. His entire life has been
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: one giant chain of failing up and being told it
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: was a success. So if he is confused by what
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: success looks like, you would not be surprised. So in
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: that sense, it helps explain why he went down this road.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Like, do we think he woke up in the morning thinking,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to star in a very famous democratic ad
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: today by saying the dumbest thing possible about the response.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And sure enough, this morning, a super PAC support, supporting
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden has already turned Kushner's response into an ad
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: 30 second ad.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I have always had the sense that Jared Kushner lives
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: his entire life without any real sense of reality that
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: he's operating in this world. Like in Jared Kushner's mind,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: He got into Harvard all on his own. He completely
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: deserves to work in the White House. He's always two
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: meetings away from solving Middle East peace. No one has
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: ever explained to him that he is basically a useless
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: dilettante who bought his way into Harvard and married his
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: way into the White House and has no redeeming value
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: or skills other than being rich. And so I've used
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: this to describe Trump before, but I think it also
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: applies to Kushner, which is, you know the famous quote
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: about George W.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Bush?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: That he was born on third base and thought he
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: hit a triple.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And Jared Kushner, like Donald Trump, is someone who strikes
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: out swinging and returns to the dugout thinking they hit
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: a home run.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, he did marry his way into the
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: White House and was made senior advisor. So that is
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: some kind of a strategy. Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess that is that is true. But he
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: like some people would acknowledge that. Oh, what a like,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: fortunate lottery ticket that I ended up in the White House.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: As I said, he thinks that he is in the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: White House despite being married to Ivanka Trump, not because
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: he is.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Jared definitely thinks Jared is smart, which is hilarious. So
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: later in that interview, Jared went on to predict that
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: by July, the country will be, quote, really rocking again.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And what he appears to mean by that is Republican
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: politicians will be forcing people to go back to work,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: whether or not it's safe to do so. Just a
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: few examples from this last week. Donald Trump ordered workers
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: back into meatpacking plants without requiring the proper safety precautions.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Mitch McConnell's top legislative priority is to protect all companies
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: from being sued if their employees or customers get infected
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: due to negligence. And Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds, who announced
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: that she was reopening most of the state the day
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: after its biggest increase in coronavirus deaths, said that if
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: people don't go back to work because they're worried about
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: getting infected, they will no longer be able to collect
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: unemployment insurance. Dan, aren't you inspired by Trump's transformation of
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party into a bunch of working class populists?
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Before we get to that, I would like to just
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: spend five seconds on Jared Kushner saying the country will
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: be a rockin'..
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Who the fuck says that? How old is he? It's
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: going to be really rockin' again by July, folks.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Look, if this country's a rockin', don't come a-knockin'.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: What is rockin'? What are you fucking talking about? It's
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: so bizarre.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes. One thing this crisis has done is
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: lay bare the truth about the Republican Party. And all
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: the examples that you list make it very explicit that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: their first and primary concerns about how to address the
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: virus is how to spin the results in the way
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: that are best for Donald Trump and Republicans at the polls,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and to ensure that rich people and large corporations can
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: continue to profit amidst a pandemic.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: But Dan, I thought Josh Hawley in Missouri and Marco
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Rubio in Florida, I thought they're populists now. They're going
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: to try to turn the Republican Party. They're big working
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: class populists. That's what I read about in some stories.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I am shocked to find out that the Republicans view
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: essential workers as disposable. That's what this comes down to.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Well, so let's take these examples one at a time.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Trump's order was in response to the fact that 22
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: meat processing plants have closed because of coronavirus outbreaks among staff.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: At least 6,500 workers have contracted COVID at these plants.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: The head of Tyson Foods warned that the U.S. could
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: soon be facing a severe meat shortage because of these closings.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: So Dan, what does Trump's order actually do here?
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Nothing other than give these companies permission to continue to
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: put their workers at risk.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's finally using the Defense Production Act, but he's
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: using it to classify meat processing plants as critical infrastructure
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: related to national security. And because he's classifying them as that,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: he then can say workers have to go back to work.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And it seems as though he keeps saying it will
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: help them with liability. Yes.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So two points about this. There are some questions about
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: how the order is drafted, and what force of law
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: it actually has. But that's sort of irrelevant because what
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: he wants to do is give these companies permission to
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: make their workers choose between getting infected with the virus
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: and a paycheck. That is what this is ultimately about.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: And the liability one is a really important point. And
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: you've seen a number of legal scholars and lawyers make
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: this point, which even though it is not explicitly liability protection,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it doesn't say to them, you cannot be sued. It
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: creates a fact pattern that would give these companies an
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: argument for why they are not liable for what happens
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to their workers if they go back to work. And
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: so he's giving them a better case before the courts.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: So obviously, you know, it would be very bad if
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: the food supply was disrupted. What should Trump have done here?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: What would a normal president do about the fact that
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: the was there is there could be a food shortage
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: because of outbreaks in a lot of meat processing plants?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Well, this is I think this is a very scary
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: microcosm of what we're looking at in the larger conversation about,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: quote unquote, reopening the country. Because there is a way
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to do this that minimizes risk, right? It means ensuring
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that each of these companies has a very specific CDC-approved
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: plan about how they're going to mitigate the spread of virus.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Do they have enough masks? Is there other PPE? What
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: is their plan to sanitize at the end of the
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: workday or between shifts? How are you changing your workflow
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: so that these workers are six feet apart from each other?
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And- Trump has no plan for those things. That is
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: not in place. We know we're operating in a world
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: in which masks and sanitizer and other PPE are in
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: grave shortage. And in the best of times, these meatpacking
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: companies are some of the worst actors in all of
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: American business. They are infamous for the very low regard
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: they have for the safety and health of their workers.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Much of their workforce is immigrants, in many cases, undocumented immigrants.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: And so they've They do. They treat them as disposable.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And that's in the best situation. So now they're in
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the worst situation. And these workers are in grave danger.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And that's a direct result of Trump being unwilling to
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: do the work to protect the American people before he
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: puts companies in a position where they continue to profit.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: With the obvious stipulation that the food chain is very,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: very important, but there is a way to do this safe.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: But it requires thoughtful, smart planning, which this administration has
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: showed no ability to do from the very outside of
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: this crisis.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he could have issued an order that also detailed
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: precautions that companies should take to protect workers and put
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: sort of the force of regulation behind those precautions. The
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Agriculture Department has deferred to the CDC, and OSHA, instead
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: of issuing its own rules, has issued recommendations, but they
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: are not mandatory safety rules. And it does seem like
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: at the baseline, opening up any... businesses in this country
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: should go along with sort of mandatory safety rules for
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: workers and not recommendations that any employer can simply blow
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: off because, I don't know, they're too costly, right? Like
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: that should be the baseline of protecting workers. And if
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you want to, you know, call meat processing plants critical infrastructure,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: then I think the workers are part of that and
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: protecting the workers' health and their lives are also part
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of that. And the Trump administration and Republicans in Congress
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and all of these companies just aren't interested in doing that.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Or at least they haven't shown it in this instance.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: So then we turn to Mitch McConnell, who doesn't just
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: want liability protection for meat processing plants. He wants it
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: for all businesses that reopened during the pandemic. He wants
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: it so badly that he's refusing to pass another economic
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: relief bill unless it includes liability protection, which he says is, quote,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: for those who have been on the front lines of
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Is that who liability protection is for, Dan, the people
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: who have been on the front lines?
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, the front lines of board meetings and CEO
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: office suites.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: The front lines of Republican campaign donations?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. It is a very important piece of legislation
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: for the group of people who are at the last
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee retreated Martha's Vineyard.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: The front of the photo line.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the front of the photo line. Yes, that's
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: very good. Damn it. How did you get there before me?
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, we should be very clear what this is.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: The proper name for this policy position of the Republican
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Party is the Freedom to Kill Workers Act.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's true.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds harsh, but that's exactly what it is.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Because if it was truly safe to reopen, you would
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: not need liability protection.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Right. No, I mean, it is a completely horrible idea
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: because allowing workers, and not just workers, but customers who
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: frequent these businesses, allowing them to hold these companies accountable
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: if they get sick, if they have not taken proper
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: precautions to prevent workers and customers from getting sick, is
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: one of the only ways to ensure that they will
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: operate safely. That is why you have liability for corporations
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: because it is a tool to to make sure that
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: they follow regulations and operate safely. If they have protection
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: from liability, these companies can do whatever the fuck they want.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: They can allow workers to come to work in the
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: worst kind of conditions. If they get sick, it won't matter.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: And they basically, it will force workers to choose between
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: their health and their jobs, their lives and their livelihoods.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: And this is what will happen if there is the
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: kind of liability protection for these companies that Mitch McConnell wants.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: and the Republicans want. So it's a horrible idea. Why
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: is it also horrible politics?
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, it lays bare the fact that that is
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: who Trump and the Republicans are fighting for. They are
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: fighting to give corporations the right to put their workers
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: at risk. And it is just like, to be very
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: precise about it, is if these companies force their workers
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: to come back, They do not provide the masks. They
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: do not provide them PPE. They force them to work
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: next to each other in a site that they know
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: is infected with coronavirus, and their workers die. The families
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: of those workers have no recourse to hold that company accountable.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And so it creates an environment that lends itself to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: corporate malfeasance. And it is terrible politics because it is
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: very easy to explain why this is a bad thing.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And it shows that the Republicans are are saying, because
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: what McConnell's actually doing, we'll talk about this in a second,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: is he's saying, I am not going to give any
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: help to doctors, hospitals. I'm not going to give help
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: to states, which means I am going to allow teachers, firefighters, cops,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: other state and local workers to be laid off or
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: have pay cuts if I do not get to allow
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: large corporations to disregard worker safety. You are choosing who
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you are fighting for, and you're making it very clear
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: in these discussions about economic legislative battles are often in
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the context of politics, proxy discussions about who you're fighting for.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And McConnell is very clearly fighting for CEOs and large
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: corporations and not workers.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So you don't believe Mitch McConnell when he says that
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: liability reform is the thing that relates the most to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: regular people?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I think that Mitch McConnell and a lot of the
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Republicans think regular people is lobbyists, CEOs, and Republican donors.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: He is doing the sort of like, lawyer boogeyman thing
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: where he's like, uh, you know, lawyers will be lurking
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: around the corners of these businesses. And he actually said,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: we will have a second pandemic of lawsuits is what
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Mitch McConnell said. So he does think that there is
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: some sort of common fear out there about, you know,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: too many lawsuits, which again, I just, I've never heard
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: a Ordinary folks talk about the fear of their employer
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: getting sued because they got a lot of people sick
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: by forcing them to come to work. Yeah.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, this should also be viewed in the context
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: of politics, and we'll talk about that in a sec,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: but also in the context of McConnell's negotiating strategy. But
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: she is taking something that is so unpopular that it
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: would pull through the floor. But he is adopting it
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: so when then he– if he were to give it up,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: it would be this giant win, right? He was like, OK, Democrats,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to take this position that no one
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: would ever want because it's so politically toxic. So therefore,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: what are you going to give me in exchange for it?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: And Democrats should give him nothing, right? I think Dave
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Roberts at Vox has a very good article about how
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: once again McConnell is using his public posture to dictate
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the terms of negotiation and we shouldn't play this game.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's talk about that. So like, obviously,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: liability protection for corporations cannot pass without democratic votes. And
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Pelosi already said the House would, quote, not inclined to
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: be supporting any immunity from liability. McConnell, as you noted,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: has said he won't pass anything else at all until
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: he gets liability protection. No state and local aid, no
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: unemployment insurance extension, no expanded vote by mail, nothing. So
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: what if Democrats saying no to this means we don't
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: get state and local aid, expanded vote by mail, anything else.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: What if it results in some kind of a standoff
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: where McConnell says my red line, as he has, is
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: liability protection. And if you don't agree to some form
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: of liability protection, you get nothing else.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think Democrats have to hold the line on that.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: It is very painful, but that is not a choice
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that Democrats are making. That is a choice that Mitch
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: McConnell and Donald Trump are making. They are choosing to.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: To hurt American families, to hurt the American economy, to
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: hurt workers in exchange for a SOP to corporations that
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: would have potentially fatal consequences. And Democrats should not play
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: that game. They cannot play that game. And if Mitch
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: McConnell demands liability protection for every single corporation in America
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: in exchange for aid, and we end up without an
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: aid package, that is not Democrats' fault. That is Mitch
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: McConnell's fault.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: And just for me, political perspective, Republicans and Donald Trump
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: need this economy to get all the help that it can.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: if they want to win in November, knowing that most
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: voters are going to hold the president responsible for, um,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: economic conditions to some degree, or at least the party
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: in power to some degree. And, you know, Mitch McConnell
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and Donald Trump are out there now calling, um, aid
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: to state and local governments, a blue state bailout. Of
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: the top 10 states facing the largest budget shortfalls, six
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: are red states, including the swing states of Florida and Michigan.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: So are Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump and all the
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Republicans in Congress going to say, I don't care. I
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: want thousands of layoffs, millions of layoffs in Florida, in Michigan,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: no services, higher tuition. fewer cops, fewer teachers, like, are
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: they just they're going to run on November on that
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: in those states?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, that like that, that is the terms of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the debate. And it'll be up to Democrats to ensure
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that's the case, because this is what Republicans will, this
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: will be the Republicans alternative story. And I think there
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: is a question that as to whether McConnell really wants
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: another aid package.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to figure that out.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's possible he does not, not for policy reasons,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: but he's made a political calculation about the consequences of
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: more spending. It would rather be in an oppositional position
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: with Democrats. And so you can see a world in
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: which the Republicans want to rerun a strategy they ran
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: after 9-11 in 2002. So In that election, one of
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the big issues was around the creation of the Department
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of Homeland Security. Democrats wanted TSA agents. TSA was going
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to be a new agency that was being created. Democrats
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: wanted those workers to have collective bargaining rights. And that
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: was something that was holding up the bill in Congress.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And Republicans basically ran a whole bunch of ads that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: said that Democrats were choosing unions over fighting terrorism. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: so you can see, I can see In a way
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: in which I can put myself in Mitch McConnell's deeply
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: evil brain, I can see him thinking, you know what
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: would be an appealing way to run against a bunch
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: of these very strong Democratic challengers in purple and reddish
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: states is to put them on the position of opposing
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: fixing the economy because they are siding with unions and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: trial lawyers. Trial lawyers.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Right. We haven't had.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: The Democrats are siding with trial lawyers discussion in a
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: number of years, but It's sort of an old trick
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: in the Republican bag. And you would tie that to
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the fact that unions and trial lawyers are likely to
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: have been large contributors to a lot of these Democratic challengers.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And so that's one element of the politics of this
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that I think are driving McConnell.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I do think in this instance, the Democrats' message is easier.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: The argument is easier. Chuck Schumer- you know, was asked
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: about this on a call with reporters. He said, instead
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: of making sure businesses have PPE for their employees, McConnell
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: wants to make it harder for workers to show up
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: at their jobs and to hold their employers accountable for
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: providing safe working conditions. Instead of fighting for more testing
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: to help everyone working on the front lines, McConnell is
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: fighting to protect corporate executives. I mean, the attacks on
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Republicans sort of write themselves here about this in a
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: way that I don't know that the Democrats have had
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: this clean of a hit on something that's in their wheelhouse,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: which is, you know, exposing the fact that Republicans care
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: about corporations and the rich before anyone else, which is
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: already a narrative that's sort of baked into what people
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: think about the Republican party. Um, you know, we haven't
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: had this clean of an argument a long time. Yeah.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I had the.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Democrats have the moral and political high ground here and
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: we should not see it under any circumstances.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Um, all right.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Just in case you were feeling too confident about November,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Michigan Congressman Justin Amash, the former Republican who voted to
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: impeach Trump, announced via the following tweet that he's launching
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: an exploratory committee to run for president as the libertarian candidate. Quote,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Americans are ready for practical approaches based in humility. Good one.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And trust of the people. We're ready for a presidency
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: that will restore respect for our Constitution and bring people together.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: One person who welcomed Amash's announcement was Donald Trump, who tweeted, quote,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I think Amash would make a wonderful candidate. especially since
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: he's way behind in his district and has no chance
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: of maintaining his congressional seat. He almost always votes for
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: the do nothing Dems anyway. I like him even more
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: than Jill Stein. Dan, I see a lot of Twitter pundits,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: sort of smart election analysts saying this either won't matter
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: or it hurts Trump. But Trump doesn't seem to think so.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: What about you? What do you think?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so funny that Trump just can't
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: He feels such this compelling urge to comment on all
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: things in politics that he can't even let this gift
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: to his campaign go unmentioned. He has to try to
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: find some way to say the quiet part out loud.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: It's just his brain is too broken to do the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: thing of minimal human intelligence. I guess you could say
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: about so much of Trump. I see a lot of people...
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Very smart people who look at these numbers saying this
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: isn't a big deal. It doesn't matter. Democrats shouldn't panic.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I would just take a note that obviously Democrats shouldn't panic.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: You should never panic. You should worry. In an emergency,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: That's never good advice. So don't listen to people who
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: offer that. But it makes me worried.
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And I'll say worried for the following reasons. One is–
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and then I'll tell you the reasons why I'm less
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: worried just so we try to have a yin and.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yang of– Both sides. We like to do both sides here.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Some people do both– like Bapak's on both your houses,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: both sides. We do hope and despair both sides. Right.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: And so the concern would be Justin Amash is from Michigan.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Michigan is in a state that was decided by– less
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: than 11,000 votes in 2016. The Libertarian candidate, which was
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Gary Johnson last time, he received 170,000 votes. So the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Libertarian received 17 times Trump's margin. So even if you
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: tell me, as a lot of these people do, that
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: most of those votes are votes that would either go
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: to Trump or no one. If 15% of those votes
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: or 20% of those votes are votes that could go
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to a Democrat, could go to Biden, then that could
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: be the difference in the election. And there's been so
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: much focus on Jill Stein and the Green Party candidate.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: And that's also something we should worry about going forward.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: But the Libertarian candidate got many times the number of
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: votes of Jill Stein and all the swing states. Just
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the other way of thinking about this is a lot
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: of people are like, well, who could these votes go to?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And that's an unknowable question situation. But I would think
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: about it this way. Donald Trump has a very high
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: floor as a candidate. He sort of starts at 42%, say,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: and maybe a few points higher depending on the state.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: But he does not have an easy path to getting
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: to 50.1. It is much harder for him. He's never
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: been at 50 in a lot of these states. And
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: so if it's a two-way race, it's very hard for
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: him to win. Every candidate who gets in the race
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: who takes some chunk of votes, lowers Donald Trump's win
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: number to closer to his base. So if Donald Trump
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: only has to get to 46, that means he only
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: has to grow his base 4%. If he has to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: get to 50, he has to grow his vote share 8%.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: And it really matters in a situation where in these
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: more conservative and demographically less favorable states, the Democrats need
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to get to 270. If there was a place for
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Republicans and independents who do not like Trump to go,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: that is not Biden that helps Trump. And we should
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: be very just that, that is why we were concerned
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: about Howard Schultz. Remember him?
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: He was the first president once we don't remember him
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: because he ran a hundred years ago and none of
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: us have been to a Starbucks in six weeks.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Um, look, I, I have, I share the same concerns. Um,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: There will be a lot more polling on this, so
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: we'll wait and see. But there was a poll in 2019.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: A Detroit News poll found Biden leading Trump in Michigan
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: back then by 12 points. With Amash added as an option,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Biden's lead shrunk to six points, with some independents and
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Republicans moving away from the Democrat. There's also been sort
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: of a trend in recent polling where, you know, in 2016,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: voters who didn't like Trump or Clinton went to Trump
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: by 17 points. Um, now voters who don't like Trump
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: or Biden in polls prefer Biden by huge margins, 30,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: 40 points in some of these polls. So if those
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: voters who don't like Trump or Biden, that Biden is
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: currently winning, if they have a third option. Biden loses
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: more votes. And like, this is a, you know, I've
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: seen this, go watch my focus group in Miami for
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: the wilderness. Like I sat down with a number of
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: people who in 2016 either didn't vote or voted third party.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And I think it's a mistake to sort of line
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: these voters, these third party voters up ideologically with different candidates.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Like you hear people saying like, well, this kind of
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: voter would be attracted to Amash and they would not
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: like Trump for this and they would like Amash because
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: of his certain policy positions or his ideology. That's not
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: how a lot of third party voters actually think. These
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: are people who are disgusted with the political system, think
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that both parties are to blame for our problems, want
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to try something new because they still vote and they're
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: still somehow engaged in politics. And they're just looking for
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: another option. And if that option happens to be someone
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: whose name they know because they're from Michigan or who
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: just gets a lot of attention somehow, that's going to,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: like you said, that's going to end up hurting Biden
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: because A, he's winning voters who are displeased with those
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: candidates and B, it takes that win number under 50%.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And like you said, you know, Trump didn't win Michigan,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania or Wisconsin by hitting 50%. No, 46. He was
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: below in all three of those states. And so making
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: that win number lower is, you know, it is a problem.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Is there anything we can do about it, Dan?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Well, let me give you the positives, which.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's right. You were going to do positives.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I'm always I'm stuck in despair right now.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: OK, here the positives is there isn't like this is
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: a small sample size, but historically third party candidates tend
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to play bigger roles in an open seat election than
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a race against an incumbent.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: 2000 versus 2004 is sort of the sample size there.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. a little bit 92, 96, but Perot still
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: had a, enough of a margin that he kept, uh,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Bill Clinton under 50. Uh, but Bill Clinton was like
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: at 49 point something. Um, the, the other positive, I guess,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: is the libertarian party is currently not on the ballot
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: in a number of swing states, including Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: And so their influence, the ability to impact the election
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: there is limited. Troublingly, it, Amash, who was from Michigan,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: it could be on the ballot in Michigan. And that
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: is where it could be decisive. And we're going to
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: have to watch it very carefully. I think we're going
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: to have to take a real effort to educate voters
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: about the stakes of the election, the consequences of not
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: voting for the Democratic nominee, and the policy positions of
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: these third party candidates, be it Justin Amash, if he
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: becomes the Libertarian Party nominee. He is not yet. He
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: is one of many people advocating for that role. And
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I guess he changed his registration. So now he is
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: officially a Libertarian. He is the one Libertarian member of Congress.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: He's like an official member of the party now, but
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: he still has to be chosen by the party delegates,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: whoever they may be. And on the other side, you
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: have former Minnesota governor, wrestling star and star of many
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger movies, Jesse the Body Ventura, potentially running on
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the Green Party ticket. I would also note that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: A climate denier on the Green Party ticket. Climate denier.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people in the party
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: were overly sanguine about the entire 2016 election, obviously, but
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: also the potential roles that Gary Johnson and Jill Stein
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: could play in these states. And probably not enough effort
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: was done to educate voters about who these people actually are.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Last point. It was about a year ago that I
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: remember we were doing a show back when we were
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: allowed to travel and see human beings when Justin Amash
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: came out for impeachment before he was removed from the
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Republican Party for having morals. But it's just the fact
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: that our Republican hero of last year has put himself
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: in a position to help Trump get reelected as a
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: reminder that there is no such thing as a Republican
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: resistance hero.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, one thing that can
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: be done, we can't really do it, but a lot
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: of our Never Trump Republican pals on Twitter and strategists,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: go talk to Justin Amash. Tell him that the guy
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: that you impeached, that you voted to impeach, you are
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: potentially helping get a second term by running for president
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: right now, if he ends up running for president. And
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I do think it's also, we should say, an open
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: question question. Amash said to CNN, I don't know, a
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: couple months ago, that if he decided to run for president,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: it would only be because he saw a path to win.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck maps and polls he's
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: looking at.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: It is mathematically and structurally impossible in the current state
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: of American politics for a third-party candidate to win. Because,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: we said this for Howard Schultz, we'll say it again,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: it is not who has the most electoral votes. It
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: is If you have 270 electoral votes or not, and
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: if you do not get to 270, then the House
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: decides based on majorities of state party congressional delegations, which
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: means that the Republicans, despite not controlling the House, would
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: get to put Trump back in office. So there is
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: no path for you, Justin Amash. There is only help
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: for Donald Trump.
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: Hi, I'm Patrick Radden Keefe, and I'm a reporter at
• 34:42
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• 34:45
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• 34:47
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• 34:56
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• 34:58
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• 35:04
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• 35:08
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• 35:08
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's talk about the Biden campaign, which is
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: currently figuring out how to deal with new reporting about
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: a former Biden Senate staffer named Tara Reid, who claimed
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: on the Katie Halper Show in late March that she
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: was both sexually harassed and sexually assaulted by Joe Biden
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: in 1993. So for the last few weeks, various news
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: organizations have been investigating these claims. Some of you might
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: have heard Tommy talk to Salon's Amanda Marcotte about the
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: New York Times and Washington Post pieces. And then late
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: last week, The Intercept reported about an episode of the
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Larry King show in 1993 where Reed's mother called in
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: to share a story about how her daughter had left
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: a job with a, quote, prominent senator and that she, quote,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: could not get through with her problems in her workplace
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: and that her only option would have been to take
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: her story to the press, which she didn't do, quote,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: out of respect for her former boss. A few days later,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Business Insider found two people who said that Reed shared
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the allegations with them years ago. One of them, a
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: former neighbor named Linda Lacasse, told reporter Rich McHugh that
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Reid shared with her in the mid-90s a story about
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Biden assaulting her and shared the details with her. A
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: second source, a former co-worker named Lorraine Sanchez, said that
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Reid told her in the mid-90s that she had been
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: sexually harassed by her former boss while she was in D.C.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: And as a result of her voicing her concerns to
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: her supervisors, she was let go, quote, fired. Biden's campaign
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: has encouraged reporters to investigate these accusations, but says they
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: are false. And Biden himself hasn't said anything about this.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: So I will stop there because this is a big
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: story with a lot of different details. Dan, what is
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: what is your reaction been to this story?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Complicated. And I want to sort of begin this conversation
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: with the stipulation that you and I are two men.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: having this conversation. And we are two men who have
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: known Joe Biden for many, many years. We are two
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: men who have donated to Joe Biden and are sponsoring
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: a fundraiser with hundreds of other Obama-Biden administration alumni in
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the coming weeks. And so I do not know, and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: it's going to sound, I know I will, and I
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: suspect you will as well, sound deeply uncomfortable as we're
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: having this conversation. And it's because I don't fully understand
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: know how to have it in a way that is
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: appropriately sensitive to everything that is surrounding it. And as
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: you and I talk about it and you guys talk
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: about it on the Monday podcast, I think the way
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: we're going to try to approach it is we're not
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: going to tell anyone how to feel about this because
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: people are going to have to come to their own conclusions.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure I know how to feel about it.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell people what we think happened because
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: we do not know and may never know. And I
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: think the thing that we can do that is constructive
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: or informative or whatever else is to talk about how
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: it's unfolding in the context of the political campaign we're
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: in and point people to, you know, voices that we
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: think are important to be heard that are more informed,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: either more informed experientially than ours necessarily. Does that make sense?
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: It does make sense. And, you know, I was going
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: to say, I think one thing to keep in mind,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: because a lot of listeners have reached out to us
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: about this. A lot of people talked about it and
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I think they're looking for like, how do you feel?
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: How should we feel? And I think, you know, I
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: think the New York times sort of concluded in their
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: investigation that they can't conclude either way, whether this happened
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: or not. And I do think people should be prepared
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: for the possibility that we could get to November, we
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: could get to forever and not know one way or
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: the other conclusively whether this happened. And that's going to
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: be very uncomfortable, but that may be the reality that
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: we live in. And we don't know. Further reporting could
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: come out. So we, again, we're in early stages here.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I think the most important context for any discussion about
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: this issue is that we live in a country where
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: credible allegations of sexual assault and sexual harassment are routinely dismissed, disbelieved,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: and ignored, and they have been forever. And that's especially
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: true when those allegations involve powerful men. We have seen that.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: That alone is doesn't make the specific allegations against Biden true,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: but that is the reality that we live in. And
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: that is why allegations like this deserve serious scrutiny and
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: can't just be dismissed and can't just be talked about
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: or dismissed or, you know, because of the political context
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: or where you stand politically or where, you know, who
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: you support for president. Like they just, the reason we
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: take these so seriously partly is because they have been
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: so many allegations that women have brought forth have been
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: dismissed wrongly for so long. And that's just an important
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: context here. I think part of what makes this tricky
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: to sort out for Tara Reid is that there are
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: sort of two different allegations here that have been talked
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: about at different times, right? So she, in April of 2019,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: she talked about sort of sexual harassment in Biden's office.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: And she also talked about sort of unwanted touching on
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: his hand on her shoulders or on his neck, which
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: other women have talked about Joe Biden doing over the
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: years as well. And she talked about the harassment. And
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: she talked about that in April of 2019. And then
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: on the Katie Halper Show in March, she made the
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: assault allegation. So just to know those two stories, right?
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Three people have now said, that she shared the details
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: of the alleged assault. Her brother, who first told the
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Washington Post that she told him Biden touched her neck
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and shoulders. And then a few days later, he texted
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the Washington Post back and said, actually, he also recalled
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: her telling him that Biden put his hand under her clothes.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: There's another friend who's talked to reporters but asked to
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: remain anonymous, who says that she told her about the assault.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And now this former neighbor who went on the record
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: with Business Insider's. Business Insider, that said that she shared
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: the details with him with her in the mid 90s.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So and then there's a few other people who said
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: that she shared the details of the alleged harassment in
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: the Senate office, but not the assault. Then on the
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: other side of this, you know, the New York Times
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: went and talked to about two dozen former Biden Senate staffers,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: and none of them offered any corroboration of the allegations
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: or any behavior like it. Reid mentioned three of her
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: former supervisors in the Biden Senate office. And those three
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: supervisors have gone on the record and said that the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: harassment incident never happened, that they would have remembered it
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: if it had. The New York Times also found a
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: couple of interns because Reid at one point was assigned
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: to manage the interns. And those two interns remember Reid
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: being abruptly reassigned from them, but they don't know why.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: So that could have something to do with her allegation
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: that his office retaliated against her for reporting harassment, or
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: it could be about something else. Again, we don't know.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: We also know that she filed a report with the
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Senate about harassment, not about the assault, but about the harassment.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: But there is no copy or record of that so
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: far that anyone can find, either Reid or any of
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: the reporters who have dug into this. And as the
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: New York Times said, and we said this, they also said,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: you know, there's no other allegation of assault. And there
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: is no pattern of assault that they could find in
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: all of their investigation or all the people they talked to.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: And that has also been true with all the other
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: outlets so far. So that's just so everyone knows if
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: you haven't been following it, like that's where the story
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: is now. And again, like you said, Dennis is tough
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: to talk about. So if we left out details, it
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: is not intentional. It is a very long and winding story.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, I encourage everyone to read the
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: post piece, read the times piece, read Business Insider. listen
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: to the Katie Halper interview, read Ryan Grim in The Intercept,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: who's reported on this, you know, sort of read everything
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: you can about this. And again, and we will continue
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: to talk about the different developments in this story. But again,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you know, everyone who's listening, I think you should read
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: it all and make your own decision about this on
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: how you think. Yeah.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the one of the reasons
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: why this is there was sort of a rhythm to
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: this story, which was the allegation that Originally, Tara Reid
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: made the allegation on The Kitty Halper Show. Ryan Grim
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: in The Intercept did a bunch of reporting on this.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It was not really covered in the mainstream media in
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: any way. We learned later, and that was in part
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: because this is all happening exactly as the primary is
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: winding down, the pandemic is taking hold. And what we
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: also learned later is that The New York Times, The
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Washington Post, a bunch of other people, they had not reported,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: they had not written a story on it, but they
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: were engaging in a in-depth set of reporting and the
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: kind of reporting that with the sort of resources that
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: they brought to a bunch of their Pulitzer Prize– in
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: the New York Times case, Pulitzer Prize winning coverage of
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein and other people who were engaged in sexual misconduct.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: You laid out with some of the very important points
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: that they found, which was they found no corroboration. Now,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: That does not mean that it did not happen, just
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: that they were unable to find additional corroboration. But one
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: of the things that was missing from those stories and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: has been seen sort of as a threshold issue in
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: how you go about covering and discussing these examples, because
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: oftentimes there are no witnesses or it is two competing accounts.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: And one of the ways in which had been sort
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: of the journalistic threshold for how you evaluate these was
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: whether the victim shared contemporaneously what happened. And The Times
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and The Post and others had not found that, and
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: then Business Insider did, which then brought this story back
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: up and has led to the context we are currently
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: operating in, where it is a major story in American
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: politics and a major point of discussion. both among Democratic voters,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: certainly activists online, and as we know from some of
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: the Times stories that New York Times and Washington Post
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: stories from yesterday, also among Democratic politicians and groups. And
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: it's happening all with the backdrop of Joe Biden being
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the first candidate to ever pledge to select a female
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: vice president and some of the most impressive, qualified, progressive
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: women in the party being on the putative shortlist list. Yeah.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Say, I think when the Post and the Times ran,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Reid said that she had shared the story contemporaneously with
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: her mother, her brother. I think she said there was
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: a friend in Kennedy's office, Ted Kennedy's office that she
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: shared with at the time. And then there was another
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: person and those people remained anonymous. The Business Insider story
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: was sort of the first person to really go on
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: the record. who she told the assault allegedly happened in 1993.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: And she talked to that person a couple of years
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: later in 1995 or six. She said she shared that
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: with her neighbor. Let's talk about the political reaction here.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Democratic leaders are so far standing by Joe Biden. He
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: was endorsed this week by Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Stacey Abrams said, quote, I believe that women deserve to
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: be heard. And I believe that has happened here. Nothing
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: in the Times review or any other later reports suggests
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: anything other than what I already know about Joe Biden
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: and that he will make women proud as the next
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: president of the United States. Kirsten Gillibrand, who was one
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: of the first senators to call for Al Franken's resignation
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: over sexual harassment claims, said, quote, Vice President Biden has
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: vehemently denied these allegations, and I support Vice President Biden. Dan,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: what did you think of these reactions?
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, they have run the gamut across the party.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: There's the ones you mentioned that are very explicitly backing
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden. And from people who, with a long, history
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: of being very fierce advocates for the victims of sexual assault.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Kirsten Gillibrand, most notably, who was obviously, that has been a,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: she's led the efforts about victims of sexual assault in
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: the military, was obviously prominently involved in the incident involving
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Al Franken a couple years ago. And like they, my
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: assumption is that they have looked at all the available
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: evidence that we have which is insufficient to say the
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: least as is often the case situation like these and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: drawn a conclusion based on what they've seen and what
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: they know of joe biden you're going to see i
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: think you're going to see a range of that from
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of different people um across the party.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah i mean so tarana burke the founder of the
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: me too movement had a different kind of response in
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: what i thought was a really thoughtful twitter thread about
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: um about this. And she wrote in those tweets, quote,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: the defense of Joe Biden shouldn't rest on whether or
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: not he's a good guy or our only hope. Instead,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: he could demonstrate what it looks like to be both
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: accountable and electable, meaning at minimum, acknowledging that his demonstrated
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: learning curve around boundaries with women at the very least
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: left him open to the plausibility of these claims. The
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: New York Times then reported yesterday that other progressive activists
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: and women's rights advocates had prepared a public letter that
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: praised Biden as, quote, an outspoken champion for survivors of
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: sexual violence, but also pushed him to address the allegations.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: saying that Biden has, quote, the opportunity to model how
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: to take serious allegations seriously. So the Biden team knows
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: about this letter, has reportedly talked to these groups, but
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Biden still hasn't made a statement. Why do you think
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: that is? And do you think he should speak about this?
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I will just say for myself, I think he should.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: You started by saying, I'm a supporter of the campaign.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: I've donated to the campaign. I would like to hear
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: what he has to say about this. And I also
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: do not know how he can... There's zero chance he
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: can get through the rest of this campaign without talking
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: about it. So I'm not clear as to why he
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: hasn't yet.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I think that's right. I'm glad you brought up Tarana
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Burke's Twitter thread. which is something that was very impactful
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: on me and how I think about this. Two other
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: things I would recommend to people who are trying to
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: process their thoughts on this is Rebecca Traister's piece in
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: New York Magazine about it, who has been a strong
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: critic of Biden for a long time and was not
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: particularly supportive of his candidacy, but sort of offers in
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: a way that, I mean, she's a beautiful, evocative writer
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: about how she feels about it in the larger context
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: of this with regard to long-term feminism and the immediate
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: challenge of running against someone like Donald Trump, who poses
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: so many dangers to women. I think that's really... And
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the other conversation that I listened to this morning in
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: preparation for this podcast is the one that Alyssa and
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Aaron had on the episode of Hysteria out today, which
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I would really recommend to people as a way to
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: help them think about it. Not that you should immediately
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: agree with any of the people, but I think it's
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: all context. As for Biden, you're exactly right. I think
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: he has an imperative to address this. And the part
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: from Tarana Burke's Twitter thread that's important is, I think
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: it is critical that we take a serious allegation seriously.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: And Biden owes that to everyone involved. And it's not like,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: this is sort of a philosophical question, because it's not
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: if he's going to address it. Because the next time
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: he does a television interview, he will be asked this question.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: And he's going to have to do it.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I'm shocked he hasn't yet. Right.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: The question is, when and how? And do you do
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: it on your own terms? Or do you do it
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: when you've been asked? And my general communications advice and
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: experience is you should do it on your own terms.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: It's always better to do something voluntarily as opposed to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: appearing to be dragged to it. And by waiting so long,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: the public pressure is mounting. The private pressure is now public.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: And I think he absolutely needs to address it. I understand.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with. But I've tried to understand why
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: his campaign has taken the approach they've taken. And after
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the Katie Halper interview, Biden's deputy campaign manager, Kate Bedingfield, said,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: women have a right to tell their story. And reporters
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: have an obligation to rigorously vet those claims. We encourage
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: them to do so because these accusations are false. Now,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: they have stuck to that story throughout this whole process.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: And I thought that was the appropriate statement to make
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: at the time. Reporters did go get those comments. And
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the Biden campaign, which sent out a set of bad
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: talking points that suggested that the Times proved that the
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: incident did not happen, which is not what the Times proved,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: and they've retracted those statements. But that's sort of where
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: they were. But now we're in a different situation. They
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: stuck with that statement for a long time. And then
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: I think what was driving it is there was nothing
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: more to say in their view. And there is this
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: sort of fear sometimes in PR that I think is
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: somewhat outdated, which is if the candidate or the president
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: says something, it will add oxygen to the fire. But
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: that is– and give– Such an old view of PR.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: It's a pre-internet view of PR. And it's just– it's
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: an uncomfortable situation, I'm sure, internally in the campaign. It's
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: a comfortable situation, conversation I'm sure to have with the
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: vice president. And it's all happening on the backdrop of
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: a situation where– none of them can go sit in
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the room and have a real conversation with them about this.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: You have to do it.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Which you would do in a campaign. Everyone would be
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: like cloistered in an office talking about, you know, how
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: to say this, what to talk about.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Like you'd be, you'd be doing that normally. And that's,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: you know, now they're probably just on conference calls where
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: it's even more awkward.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: And it's like, none of this is an excuse for
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: what they've done, I think, or excuse for, it's just
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: trying to explain how they've gotten this position, but the
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: circumstances on the ground politically have changed since that original statement. And,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: the vice president is going to have to address it
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: sooner rather than later, and sooner is much better than later.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: So one thing that's fairly unsurprising is Trump's campaign and
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: the Republicans are already trying to weaponize the story against Biden,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: even though Trump himself has been accused of sexual assault
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: by more than a dozen women. Trump's campaign has been
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: gleefully tweeting about it, and Mitch McConnell said in a
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Fox News radio interview on Monday, you know, he was
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: complaining about a double standard. He saw with how people
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: reacted to the allegations. these allegations and how they reacted
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: to allegations about now Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. So
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: it seems like Republicans don't actually think that this will
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: cause voters to move from Biden to Trump, but they
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: do hope that it persuades some voters to stay home
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: who would otherwise have voted for Biden. Do you agree?
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: And how do you think Democrats should respond to this
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: obviously nakedly political play by the Republicans on this? Shamelessly hypocritical.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, just fuck all of these people.
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: I think Alyssa and Aaron talked about this. It's just like,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: we should pay as we, as democratic activists, democratic voters,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: whoever think about how to analyze this story, we should
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: pay no mind to the obvious worst people in the
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: world operating in the worst faith possible. Like, let's not
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: forget that Donald Trump weaponized Bill Clinton's conduct against Hillary Clinton, inviting, um,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: alleged victims of sexual misconduct from Bill Clinton to the
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: debate and tried to put them in the front row
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: so Hillary Clinton would have to look at them, right?
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: These are like, fuck all these people. I don't have
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: great advice for what to do about this. It is
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: partially why it's important for Biden to answer this on
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: the record because you want something you can point to, right?
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: You want to be able to– that moment, whenever it comes,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: and given our past history, I suspect it's going to
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: come five minutes after this podcast drops, that you want
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: people who are looking at this in good faith, who
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: are saying, can I vote for Joe Biden? Not, am
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I going to vote for Donald Trump, who's obviously terrible
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: on every dimension, but particularly this one. Can I bring
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: myself to vote for Joe Biden? They need to hear
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: from Joe Biden on that and– Trump fills a vacuum.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: And where we currently stand, there is a vacuum because
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: there has not been an on-camera response from Joe Biden himself.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Right. And I do think, look, this was the play
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: from the Trump campaign in 2016. It will be their
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: play again. They are trying to, you know, they have
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: all kinds of, Republicans have all kinds of laws and
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: regulations and rules out there to actually suppress voting. And
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: then they also try to depress voting among Democrats and
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: liberals by sort of, you know, this is that play, right?
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: They're going to try to get people to stay home
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: who would vote for Joe Biden because, you know, they
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: don't like either Donald Trump or Joe Biden. And they're
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: going to do that on this issue. And they're going
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: to do that on a number of issues. And I
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: do think you're right. There's no easy answers for what
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: you do about it. But I think you start by
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: pointing out that it is purely political in nature and
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: that these people do not give a shit about about
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: actual sexual assault allegations. But the way that you stand
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: on firmer ground in making that argument is to show
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: that you took those allegations very seriously. And part of
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: taking it seriously is talking about it if you're Joe
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Biden and you want to be president. It is not
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: just politically the thing that you need to do. It
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: is morally the thing you need to do if you
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: want to lead this country. And if you, you know,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: talk about how you are a champion of women, right,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: like that, you have to address this. I think that's just,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: there's no way around it.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: I think one other thing about this is there's going
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: to be a lot of overly facile comparisons between how
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Democrats handle this accusation with how Republicans in the Senate
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: handled the Kavanaugh accusations. And you'll look at fact patterns
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: and changing stories. And, you know, in some cases, you'll say,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: elements or inconsistencies that Democrats dismissed in this instance, they
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: are hanging on to in this instance. But I just
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: think we should be very clear that from Joe Biden,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: via his campaign, to the overwhelming amount of people within
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: the Democratic Party have said the following things. One, these
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: should be investigated. Reporters should vet these claims. The victims
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: should be heard. And what the Republicans did was chastise
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: anyone who brought them up, did not want them to
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: be looked at, short-circuited the investigation in order to put
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: someone on the Supreme Court for life. What Democrats are
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: saying is there is this allegation out here. It should
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: be taken seriously. People should look at it. And people
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: are going to have to make up their own mind
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: based on the facts. No one is trying to short-circuit anything.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: These are very different situations, even if in both cases,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: as is often the case in these situations, there can
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: be no 100% certain conclusion as to what happened. But
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Democrats are trying to. And I think when we hear
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: from Biden, which I am confident who we will hear
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: from soon, we are showing that this is a serious
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: allegation that we are taking seriously. We want people to
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: look into it. so voters can make their judgment. Republicans
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: short-circuited an investigation to jam a person on the Supreme
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Court when there was no immediate urgency to do so.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Okay. When we come back, we'll have my interview with
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: California Assemblywoman Christy Smith. I'm now joined by California State
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Assemblywoman and Democratic congressional candidate Christy Smith, whose special election
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: to fill the congressional seat for California's 25th district is
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: on May 12th. Thanks for coming on the pod.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me, John.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: So you didn't initially expect to be running for Congress
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: right now, and you certainly didn't expect to be running
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a pandemic. How has that changed
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: the way that you are campaigning and connecting with voters?
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: And what have you found most effective?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, right.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it's an excellent question. I mean, nobody
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: could ever plan for a moment like this. And, you know, notwithstanding,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: you know, the real concern that people are going through,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: so many people have lost their employment, so many people
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: are worried about their health. But also for us, and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: given the way that I like to campaign, what this
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: has provided is a real opportunity for two things.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: First of all, to draw the distinctions.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: Between me and my opponent, because people's health care and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: their access to well-paying jobs and job protections or something
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: I've been running on for a long time. But then secondarily,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: in our outreach to our voters, it's really a two-pronged approach.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: We know that a lot of people who are staying
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: safe at home maybe haven't had a whole lot of
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: contact with other folks. We know that incidents of domestic
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: violence have gone up, that people are still suffering with
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: mental health challenges but without able to have the ability
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: to access care. So when we're making calls to our voters,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: we're checking in. We're seeing how people are doing. We're
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: seeing if there's any services that we can connect them with.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: And then secondarily, we're saying, hey, If these issues that
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: are impacting you are important to you, there's a special
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: election May 12th. So, you know, not to say that
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: certainly there are a whole lot of silver linings in
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: the crisis that we're all experiencing right now, but we're
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: trying to lean in on the areas where we know
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: that this crisis kind of speaks to where we are
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: as a campaign and what my primary issues are.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: So the 25th was a competitive district in 2018, though
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: Katie Hill ended up beating Republican incumbent Steve Knight by
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: a fairly good margin, 54-46. Yeah. The Cook Political Report
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: is now rating your race as a toss up, called
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: it a nail biter.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Do you agree?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: And why do you think it's become even more competitive
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: than in 2018?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: Well, look, I mean, you know, everything that's a special
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: election anywhere becomes a toss up simply because, unfortunately, we
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: just haven't figured out what that magic is to get
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: our Democratic voters to turn out in these off cycle elections.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: We know that given this COVID crisis and all of the,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: you know, intervening factors that are going along that are
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: impacting people's lives, voting may not be top of mind
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: for them. And that's why I said, you know, we're
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: taking a different approach with contacting voters. But turnout is
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: everything in this moment. And so, you know, we've got
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: a lot of volunteers engaged. We could always use more.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: But simply, if we change the turnout modeling, we can
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: win this thing. You know, Katie won this district handily.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: We've got a registration advantage here. of nearly seven points.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: But unfortunately, right now in ballot returns, we're underperforming the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: Republicans because Republicans more persistently vote. So what we need
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: to do is get in contact with our Democratic voters
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: and get those ballots in.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Hear that, everyone? If you have a ballot and you're
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: in the 25th, get it in. What are you hearing
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: from voters right now about how their fears, hopes, priorities
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: have changed because of this pandemic? What are the specific
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: issues that keep coming up that might not have come
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: up in a normal race?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: An overall feeling of uncertainty.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: And I think people didn't anticipate that we would be
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: in a moment of crisis like this and not be
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: able to rely on the institutions of our federal government.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: And that goes directly to the leadership that's in the
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: White House.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: You know, when you talk about the fact that we
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: have underfunded really important institutions like the CDC and the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: NIH and the WHO, which we're now withdrawing resources from,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: you know, People expect those things that are part of
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: our national well-being to be in place in a moment
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: like this. And it really speaks to this moment of
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: why government is important, why a social safety net is important.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: You know, most of us don't need it or rely
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: on it all of the time. But in a moment
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: like this, it becomes easily apparent why we need to
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: be taking good care of those institutions that take care
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: of us. So I think people are now feeling that. Unfortunately,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: they're seeing it. and how it's impacting their daily lives.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: And as I said, the difference between myself and my
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: opponent couldn't be more stark. He is a person who
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: is absolutely steadfast against any social safety net. He said
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: people should have to fend for themselves. And in a
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: moment like this, that just doesn't work.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: So we've heard a lot about what Governor Newsom has
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: done to respond to the pandemic in California. What kind
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: of work is happening in the state legislature right now?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: What have you all been working on? Sure.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: Well, we're working in a couple of ways.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: First of all, we're working in our districts with the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: very important work of constituent service. So I have a
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: wonderful team who is daily answering phone calls and emails,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: connecting people to their unemployment insurance, making sure that they
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: have all of the relevant data and information to navigate
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: through wherever they are. We've got renter protections in place
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: and we've got some mortgage and banking protections in place
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: and support for small business and business owners. So making
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: sure that our constituents have everything they need, that they're
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: getting good reliable information about the crisis, about how to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: care for their own health.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 5: So that's on the one side. We're working regionally.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: So I'm part of an LA County delegation where we
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: realized early on that while our County was doing a
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: fantastic job moving what PPE they had out to our
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: hospitals and healthcare providers, there was this whole secondary essential
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: workforce that also needed PPE. And so we stepped in
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: with the help of some business partners across the LA
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: County region to to set up a streamlined donation and
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: distribution process for PPE to essential workers that aren't in hospitals.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: So it really runs the gamut. It's from constituent service
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: then to now starting in a bigger scale to figure
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: out what our policy work is going to look like
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: when we get back next week, May 4th, more financial
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: support for families, and really starting to tackle some of
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: these underlying issues that are going to continue for as
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: long as we have to create a new normal.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: If you do win next week, you'll be sort of
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: stepping into Congress in the middle of a big debate
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: over the next economic relief bill. What are your priorities
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: for that bill? What would you like to see in
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: the next economic stimulus bill passed by Congress?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: Well, I think we need to recognize a couple of things.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: First of all, we need to recognize that people who
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: are already living paycheck to paycheck, while they are grateful
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: for an initial outlay of $ 1, 200 and whatever access they
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: have to unemployment insurance right now, That has to continue
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: for as long as the crisis continues and until we
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: can fully rehab the economy. Secondarily, I would say, and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: I've been running on this issue since 2016, we have
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: got to improve our health care infrastructure and support hospitals better.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: But right now in this moment, our hospitals are going
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: to need to be bailed out financially, and that's incredibly important.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: They expanded capacity. They were ready for the surge. They
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: brought employees back. and they were prepared to be engaged
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: in this moment, we need to make sure that they
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: can continue to do that.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: We need to, if.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: We cannot, if we have not gotten to the point
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: where we've got the logistics in place to do a
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: comprehensive national testing program, we have got to push for that.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: Our reopening our economy depends on two things.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: One, our ability to test everybody.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: And second, having a healthcare network in place that allows
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: us to do contact tracing. Without those two things, we
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: are going to continue to function in this really limited capacity.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: And There is no better mechanism for that than the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: federal infrastructure. I mean, our Defense Department are some of
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: the best logistics folks that we've got, and we need
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: to deploy that resource in this really critical time to
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: get all the things that we need, the swabs and
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: the reagents, and part of an overall arching testing system
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: that's going to allow us to do this. You know,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: our governor is working really hard in the Western States Alliance,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: and you see that in the Midwest and the East
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: Coast as well. But these governors can't do it on
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: our own. It is time for a... transparent national strategy
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: on all of this and some real leadership.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Do you think that some measures to protect election security
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: should be a precondition of the next stimulus bill? And
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: in your own race, obviously in California, they can mail
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: us ballots, but how are you handling sort of making
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: sure that everyone can vote safely, everyone gets their ballot in, etc.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: Well, that's a really big part of our robust voter
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: outreach right now. We are connecting people by text and
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: by phone to make sure if they hadn't received their ballot,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: they know which county to check in with to receive
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: a ballot. Incredibly grateful to our Secretary of State, Alex Padilla,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: and our Governor Gavin Newsom, though, for deciding that in
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: the interest of public health, everyone would get a ballot
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: in this moment. I mean, I think it is a
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: tribute to their leadership, but also an important opportunity for
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: us to make sure.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: That voters understand that voting has changed.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: We saw in the primary, a lot of people do
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: still rely on going to their neighborhood polling place in
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: a garage.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: And a lot of that will change.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: For the foreseeable future. And we need to make sure
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: we're communicating that clearly. National voting security, absolutely. I think
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: every single voter in the United States should get a
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: ballot for the November general. We should never have what
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: happened in Wisconsin. It should not be a binary choice
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: between exercising your franchise and your health. So I'm really
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: grateful that California is demonstrating some leadership. Would love to
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: see this go nationwide. And also critically, the next round
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: of funding must include support for.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 5: The United States Postal Service. We cannot, in this critical time,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: let them not be funded.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: What do you think about Mitch McConnell and some other
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: Republicans calling aid to states, especially states like California, blue
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: state bailouts? Yeah.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: Well, I tell you what, here in donor state California,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: where we pay in more to the federal government than
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: we get back, yeah, we'll take our donations back.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Mitch McConnell.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: I don't even understand how we've gotten to this point
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: in the American narrative. where they're now trying to create
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: this disconnect between the federal government and the people. I mean,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: that exercise we all participate in every April 15th when
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: we file our taxes and we send that money to Washington,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: that is for our own benefit.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 5: That is for our support. That is for those very.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: Institutions of government that we should all still be able
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: to believe in, should be doing the right thing and
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: functioning for us. So I will say to you, Moscow Mitch,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: it's our money.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: So last question, what can listeners inside and outside of
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: the California 25th do to help you get over the
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: finish line in these next few weeks?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: Oh, thanks. I really appreciate that question.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: So Democrats all over the country, please engage in this race. Christy, C-H-R-I-S-T-Y, forcongress.org. Volunteer, donate,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: help us out. We have got to engage every single
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: Democratic voter. We still need to do a lot more
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: talking to our Latino voters, our African-American community, and our
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: young voters. So come on, young voters, 18 to 35,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: don't let us down.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: You talk a big game, but please show up. We
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: need you right now. But for everyone else.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: It's christy4congress. org. Please engage in whatever way you can. But
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: we've got callers from Brooklyn to San Francisco, and we
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: can always use more.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: We welcome you to the effort.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: All right, everyone, this is very important. You heard Christy Smith.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Please get involved. Chrissy, thank you so much for joining
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: us today and best of luck to you on May 12th.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: Thanks to Chrissy Smith for joining us today and we
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: will have a good weekend and we'll talk to you
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: next week.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Bye everyone.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is a product of Cricket Media. The
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Caroline Reston, and Elisa Gutierrez for production support. And to
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: every week.