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I Went to Jail Multiple Times : Shame, Secrecy, and Losing Integrity in Recovery · Recovering Out Loud

0:21
OK. And like my first year in
0:26
recovery, that I actually stayed sober because like, I've been in
0:31
and out of this program for a while, right?
0:33
Like 2017, I came in for the first time through a series of
0:38
Duis that led me to jail, which led me to treatment, which was a
0:42
Dictionary of Toronto. And you know, I've struggled
0:47
since then, like 60 days out, 30 days out.
0:51
And finally in 2025, I kind of hit my bottom and I came like
1:01
crawling back. I was at like the jumping off
1:05
point, you know, and. Dude, it's tough when you go
1:10
back out with a head full of recovery, right?
1:13
Like a belly full of recovery. They say, right, I've been
1:16
there. You know, I relapsed after seven
1:18
years and I'm getting goose excused while I'm thinking about
1:20
it because it's like the level of shame that comes in when you
1:23
when you know what you should be doing.
1:25
And that's a dangerous word. It should, but you know how good
1:28
it could be and you got people calling your phone and just
1:31
checking up on you. But then in your head, at least
1:33
for me, it's like they fucking they're talking about me.
1:35
Absolutely right. Oh yeah.
1:37
Fucking idiot. Like he went out.
1:38
And these are the stories we start to spin in our head.
1:41
Yeah. And it keeps us out there
1:42
longer. Yeah.
1:43
All they want is to help. Us I know the guilt and shame
1:46
right? Like comes back and that yeah,
1:48
that's exactly the first thing I do in the past, like when I when
1:52
I've relapsed, is get rid of my phone.
1:55
Completely. Completely get rid.
1:57
Of. I don't want any.
1:58
If I do whatever, like either I'll sell it or I'll I'll give
2:03
it away to somebody or I'll leave it somewhere or I'll break
2:06
it. Just to avoid those.
2:07
Just to avoid. Cause only people I know now are
2:09
in recovery, right? Or my family, like those are my
2:12
only friends. So it's like the last people
2:15
person I want to talk to is, you know, my sponsor, people that
2:18
are trying to help me when I don't want the help, you know,
2:21
and it's a dark place to be because eventually the time
2:24
comes where I'm like, OK, I need to come back and let's try this.
2:28
There's no other option for yes right?
2:30
Like you said it perfectly, it's jails, institutions, death.
2:32
Death, right? Or recovery like this I I knew I
2:36
needed to come back here. In fact, you know my I remember
2:39
my wife when I was in my relapse, she kicked me out and I
2:41
was living in Airbnb's for a long time because just didn't
2:44
want to surrender right wanted to do some more research wanted
2:47
to have some more fun whatever the for me it was the hill to
2:50
come back to recovery was like this mountain.
2:52
I always say that I just I would think about it everyday be like,
2:54
fuck, I got recovery is always an option, but like it's so
2:58
fucking hard. I know it's too hard.
3:00
I'm just gonna just gonna keep using.
3:02
And then so my wife brought me a piece of recovery literature
3:06
that we all know too well. And she would leave it on my
3:09
counter at the Airbnb and then she would fuck off, right,
3:11
because she's like, I can't watch you kill yourself.
3:14
And I would stare at that thing every day.
3:15
And I knew that there was a place for me to go after I knew,
3:19
right? I never opened the book.
3:20
I never, but I knew what was fucking in there.
3:22
And it's not just words on a page.
3:25
No, that book for me symbolizes a life.
3:27
Yeah, absolutely. Program.
3:29
A spiritual program. They say, they say that that
3:31
book is besides like the Bible. So the Bible is the number one
3:36
book bought that's never read. And that book that you that
3:39
you're talking about is the second most bought book in the
3:42
world that's never read. So most of the time it just sits
3:45
on the shelf, you know? Collecting dust or giving away
3:48
to somebody? Or giving away to somebody.
3:49
Yeah. Cool, bro.
3:51
So I, I want to, I'm interested. I'm happy that you're opening up
3:54
about this because I think since I've relapsed, I've found that I
3:58
have, I feel like I have an obligation to like tell people
4:01
how not to relapse, but also we have an experience that people
4:05
need to hear. So can you walk me through, walk
4:07
us through the original time coming into recovery, like what
4:10
that you mentioned DU is and stuff And then yeah.
4:13
And then we'll go from. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:14
I'll tell you like my story. Pretty much so Anthony.
4:17
I was born in Lake Saint Catherine's, January 11th, 1989.
4:22
I ended up moving to Burlington when I was 19 with my parents,
4:27
with my mom and my stepdad. My dad's one of us.
4:30
He, he's an alcoholic. I haven't talked to him in like
4:32
20 years actually. But he was a great father
4:35
growing up, you know, trained me how to play lacrosse.
4:39
He played high level lacrosse and was pretty good at it.
4:43
All sports, if if you put a stick in my hand, I was pretty,
4:46
pretty good with it. You know, I knew what to do,
4:49
athlete of the year, all these kinds of things, and I got
4:52
diagnosed with all sort of colitis at a young age when I
4:56
was playing lacrosse. And sorry, what is that?
4:59
It's like Crohn's disease. So it was, you know, it took a
5:03
toll on my my life. I had to quit playing lacrosse.
5:06
I had to stop going to school. That guy got really bad.
5:09
And I was introduced to painkillers for the first time
5:13
at a young age. And I remember just taking more
5:17
than I should have and just feeling like bliss, you know, so
5:22
that I think that's kind of like where my addiction started.
5:25
If I think back, my dad had left around that time.
5:28
I stopped playing lacrosse. I dropped out of school, started
5:31
hanging around the wrong people. And eventually I, I, I got
5:36
better and moved up to Burlington with my mom and
5:39
stepdad. And from there, you know, that I
5:43
wasn't really using as much, but I was like a weekend warrior
5:48
type deal. So I would start on Friday and
5:50
end on Sunday, but I'd go heavy, you know, I don't know if we can
5:54
be drug specific. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:56
OK. So I'd be doing.
5:57
As a purpose. Yeah, yeah, lots of cocaine,
5:59
opiates and and alcohol was like my main thing.
6:02
I wouldn't do drugs or or coke without drinking right And got
6:07
into an unhealthy relationship from there and just toxic.
6:12
I moved her into my parents basement and we ended up, you
6:17
know, just fighting a lot, not physically, but like emotionally
6:21
and mentally just destroying each other type deal thing.
6:24
And you know, within from 19 to 27 I ended up, you know, going
6:31
to jail a few times, hanging around the wrong people.
6:34
The drugs got worse. The, the situations I was in
6:37
became more dangerous. You know, the fighting between
6:41
me and her got a lot, a lot worse as well.
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And I went to jail after. So I got my first DUI when I was
6:49
21 and I got my license back, I think after three years.
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And when I was 27, I got my second DUI.
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And as I was fighting my second DUI, they give you your license
7:02
back until you're charged. Because I wanted to fight it.
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I didn't want to have two. DU is on my record and I caught
7:08
my third. I saw, you know, the cherries
7:12
behind me on the cop car and I don't know what I was thinking.
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I was obviously out of it, high uncle drunk out of my mind.
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And I, I pedaled to the metal and I ran.
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I ran from them. I ended up crashing on the
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highway going like 180 mph, spun out, sorry, spun out and and I
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ran and then I woke up like in a ditch in Stoney Creek with like
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20 dogs and 20 cops around me. They took me to jail and I think
7:41
a couple weeks later or a month later or something, my lawyer
7:44
came and he said you can either stay in here or you can go to
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Addiction Rehab Toronto and I went to Addiction Rehab Toronto
7:53
and that was 2017 for the first time.
7:57
So you were in jail for a month up until I think.
7:58
It was like 3 weeks, yeah, yeah. Which is the longest amount of
8:02
time in jail I had ever done. It's too much time.
8:04
Yeah, it's scary. What was that like?
8:09
I actually ended up doing weekends after that as part of
8:11
my sentence, which was scarier, but I'll talk about like that.
8:16
Like that was I was I went to Maplehurst and in Maplehurst
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there it's all individual cells. So like you have one cell, you
8:23
so me and you would share a cell.
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Whereas Thorold where I did my weekends, it's all open custody.
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So there's like 20 bunks on this side and 20 bunks on this side
8:32
and everybody's it's free range. Anybody can talk to each other
8:35
or fight each other or whatever it is.
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So it's, it's a bit more dangerous doing weekends 'cause
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you're also with people in different categories of what
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they've done. Some people were in there for,
8:46
you know, some pretty bad stuff. So but for the three weeks in
8:52
Maplehurst, I was honestly like detoxing for half the time, you
8:57
know, and I would just sleep as much as I could.
9:00
Detoxing in jail is probably one of the worst things I've ever
9:03
had to do. And I remember just really
9:06
wanting a cigarette. I wanted a a smoke.
9:09
And when my lawyer came, I asked him if you can smoke in, in
9:12
treatment. He said, yeah, I'm the first,
9:13
'cause I didn't want my parents to spend money, you know?
9:16
So when they when he said you can smoke in treatment, I was
9:20
like, OK, take me to treatment and.
9:22
And I know when that was the kicker.
9:24
Yeah. That's the only, you know, to be
9:27
honest. Yeah.
9:28
That's the only thing that that I I need, OK.
9:30
I can smoke and I I get that. I really get that.
9:33
Yeah. It's like if I can't have that,
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you know, I need, I need something.
9:36
Something. So you go to Addiction rehab
9:38
Toronto and then what happens there?
9:41
Like I'm assuming at this point you you knew you had a problem.
9:44
For sure, absolutely. I remember, I remember going.
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I think I was 16 years old. And I remember going back to my
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mom's house, this is in Saint Catherine's, before I moved to
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Burlington. And at like 4:00 in the morning.
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And I remember knocking on the door for her to let me in.
10:00
And she was, she came and I remember I just broke down and
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started crying like in her arms and told her that I'd been doing
10:08
cocaine, you know, And she, she hugged me obviously, and like
10:12
took care of me. And, you know, I went to bed in
10:14
the next morning. I saw out a therapist and, you
10:17
know, tried doing all these other things.
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And, you know, I was just going to the therapist and then
10:22
getting beer afterwards and going to you.
10:24
So that didn't really work, like you said for us.
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I think the only thing is, you know, some type of program.
10:30
So, yeah, I ended up knowing I had a problem at that point when
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I went, did I want to stop entirely?
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I wasn't ready yet, but I was the best client there.
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You know, if you told me to do something in rehab, I, I, I did
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whatever you told me to do. I, I've always been like a
10:50
people pleaser, you know, and, and good at getting people to
10:53
like me. You know, I'm good at talking
10:57
and I did whatever they told me to do.
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Ended up sharing like a few recovery meetings while I was in
11:04
there. And when I got out, I went right
11:09
back to the ex-girlfriend that I had told you about.
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And you know, at that point, we had a no contact order against
11:17
each other. I wasn't allowed to see her.
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She wasn't allowed to see me. And we still hung out.
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We got into like a verbal altercation.
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She called the cops on me. I was also not supposed to be
11:32
drinking and on house arrest at this time as well.
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So I breached like two or three things and I went back to jail
11:40
again from there. And then I remember calling Eric
11:44
from jail and he said, yeah, I come, come to sober living.
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So my lawyer got me two years on house arrest if I was in sober
11:54
living. So that led for two years.
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So that led me to art and sober living for two years on house
12:01
arrest. And I did pretty good there.
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I had a few slips in between, obviously.
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But during that time, like we, I lost a lot of good, good
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friends. You know my best friend Pat that
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Eric knew very well passed away. Jonathan, who was the head chef
12:18
at ART, he ended up passing away.
12:21
Chris passed away. John ended up passing away.
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You knew John. Yeah, I knew him well.
12:28
So I was the last person. In elementary school together.
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Wow, wow, that's crazy. I had no.
12:34
Idea yeah, I went to that funeral.
12:36
It was. That was tough, man.
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Yeah, I know his parents well, and our families, we went to the
12:41
same elementary school, and high school is right.
12:45
So like that was that was really tough for me because how it
12:49
happened, right? Like I don't even know if you
12:51
want to get into that. But just like I, I remember
12:54
being called by from a private investigator like every week,
12:58
like where is he? Where is he?
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Where is he? And I had left him and went back
13:01
to sober living and he was found, you know, dead where I
13:05
had left him, right. So like months later or weeks
13:09
later or something like that in a field.
13:12
So ANYWAYS, that that messed me up pretty badly.
13:15
You know, I remember having to sit down with his family and
13:20
just like tell them like my experience on how that had
13:23
happened and what had happened. And I always kind of felt like
13:26
some type of guilt and shame for not trying to get him to come
13:29
back with me harder than I than I did, you know?
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And from there, like I just kept, I kept relapsing After
13:40
that, I went back to Burlington, went to my parents house, lived
13:45
with them for a while. And then it got so bad to the
13:48
point where I was kicked out, nowhere to go, basically living
13:53
in essentially what you would call a trap house, you know, in
13:56
Burlington and Warwick. And my buddy Pat, who passed
14:01
away, who was like my best friend, his family actually took
14:05
me in, came and saved me from the apartment that I was staying
14:09
in. Whereas, you know, essentially
14:10
killing myself with drugs and alcohol and whatever else.
14:14
And they put me into rehab and then they put me in a sober
14:20
living house, which was called the Phoenix House.
14:23
And that was made in memory of. Pat who passed away.
14:27
My buddy Julian opened it up. I don't know if you remember
14:29
Julian and I did pretty. Is that still around in that
14:32
place? No, 'cause he.
14:33
Yeah, I know, right? I'm sorry.
14:34
I. Remember, he passed away too.
14:35
He passed away too. And when he passed away, I was
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just like, what is going on? You know, like everybody's,
14:40
everybody's dropping and it's it was scary, bro.
14:43
And you know the place. It was a great place.
14:47
Thomas. I don't know if you know him,
14:50
love him, love him to death. You know, he's done.
14:53
He's done a lot for me. And you know, that place really
14:58
helped me quite a bit. And like, I have nothing but the
15:01
utmost love and respect for Tina and Mario, who were past
15:04
parents, right? That brought me, brought me in
15:07
and took care of me. They gave me a job as well at
15:09
one point, working for Mario's company, making really good
15:12
money, right? So I think after Julian died, I
15:19
went out West to some place called Together We Can and
15:27
another rehab, another rehab center.
15:29
Vancouver. Vancouver, Yeah, yeah.
15:31
And. I, I don't, I think I did OK
15:37
there. You know, it, it was, but I, I
15:39
was just doing meeting meetings, like I wasn't getting into the
15:43
solution of things. And you know, there's, I wasn't
15:48
really working out, which is a big part of my recovery as well.
15:52
And I ended up losing a girlfriend.
15:57
Actually, Monica, what's her name Eric had given her a job at
16:01
at one point. And you know, a lot of people
16:03
tried helping her and she ended up passing away.
16:07
So I remember going back to Toronto for her funeral and I
16:12
just never left after that. You know, I didn't go back to
16:14
Vancouver again. I struggled and this kind of
16:18
brings me to the point in 2025 where I was out like the jumping
16:23
off point. I had gone to jail again for the
16:25
first time in like 7 years since the Duis in a blackout.
16:30
I kicked down a door to try and grab my belongings that I had
16:35
left somewhere because I thought I heard people laughing on the
16:38
other side and it turns out it was the wrong apartment floor
16:41
and there was a family inside. Full blown psychosis.
16:45
Full blown psychosis. Yeah.
16:47
And thankfully nobody was hurt or anything like that, but you
16:51
know. The the the.
16:52
I probably traumatized a family, right?
16:54
Like I didn't, I didn't know what was, what was even going on
16:57
or where I was. So it turns out the apartment
16:59
building was in Jane and Finch, so even it wasn't a good area,
17:02
you know, could have easily been shot or killed or something.
17:06
And I'm not like the type of person that likes to fight or
17:10
likes confrontation. I guess just when I, you know,
17:13
when I use, I put myself in dangerous situations with
17:15
dangerous people and I ended up going to jail.
17:20
I got let out. And that's when I called Eric in
17:22
2025 and I said you need to give me one more chance.
17:25
He took that chance on me. I did whatever they told me to
17:30
do. Again, in treatment, I met Alan.
17:33
Two things he told me to do were not to make decisions based on
17:35
bad feelings and don't do things I can't talk about right.
17:38
And I stuck to that. For don't do things I can't talk
17:41
about. Yeah, yeah, Don't make decisions
17:43
based on shitty feelings and don't do things I can't talk.
17:46
Simple, simple, which is all I like could do like.
17:50
Integrity. Yeah, right, right.
17:53
And I did well, I ended up taking over one of the jobs for
17:58
house manager at this over living house.
18:00
I went back to school, which I'm finishing up now, actually.
18:07
And you know, I, I really started to like dive into the
18:12
into a program. I, I sponsored guys.
18:19
I what else? I was focused on the gym a lot.
18:22
And then like 15 months sober, I went on this spiritual retreat
18:26
in Mexico and I met a girl, you know, amazing person.
18:33
I thought it was ready for a relationship.
18:35
Turns out I wasn't, and I slowly started to like come off the
18:39
beam and started focusing more on the job, focusing on school,
18:42
focusing on the relationship. Recovery starts to go down the
18:46
ladder, right? Exactly, exactly.
18:49
And yeah, Anthony, And then I was, I think on on the the 16th,
18:55
my 16th month that I was sober. I was in a place I shouldn't
19:00
have been. Like my integrity slowly started
19:02
to go away through, through, you know, the after my year, I
19:06
stopped writing out my inventory every night.
19:09
I was focusing more like on getting, getting things like
19:13
money or, or materialistic objects.
19:15
Like I wanted the, the girl, I wanted the, the apartment, I
19:19
wanted the car. Like everything that, you know,
19:23
the, the book talks about money, prestige and property.
19:25
And like that's kind of where my focus was instead of how can I
19:30
get better like internally and bring my recovery to that next
19:34
level, you know, spiritually. I always kind of matched like my
19:38
insides on you. What is it?
19:41
I always kind of matched how I feel on what you thought about
19:44
me, you know, like my insides on your outsides type deal thing
19:48
and. I need you to love me, if to me
19:49
for me to love myself. Right, Exactly, Yeah,
19:53
codependency exactly. Yeah.
19:55
So from from there, like I, I was in.
20:02
I'll just say where I was, I went to the casino by myself and
20:05
I've never had a gambling problem.
20:06
So, you know, in my head it's like, OK, I can go play some
20:09
slots just to switch up from going to a meeting or doing what
20:13
I usually do on Saturday nights. And I think it was about 12:00
20:18
and they say like people, places and things, right?
20:20
I was by myself. I didn't bring anybody with me.
20:23
I wasn't in place where I shouldn't have been because I
20:25
had relapsed years before in the same casino by myself, not even
20:29
thinking about that and mental blank spot exactly.
20:34
I didn't have they talk about like having a defense, right?
20:39
Like if I'm in the middle, I've got meetings, I've got my
20:41
meditation, I've got God or a higher power, whatever you
20:44
wanted to choose my fellowship working out like all these
20:48
things. But at that time and place, all
20:50
these like everything kind of started to fade away.
20:53
And I didn't want to call my sponsor and tell him I was at a
20:57
casino because I was supposed to be at the house watching over
21:01
the guys, right? And, and, you know, I saw these
21:04
guys drinking at a bar and the thought came and I prayed for it
21:08
to go away. And, you know, it did.
21:10
And then it came back. And then, you know, 16 months
21:14
down the drain that I had been working so hard to get.
21:18
And that was it. That's all it took was one drink
21:22
and I was off to the races, you know, And, you know, I dropped
21:27
out of school. I lost my job.
21:31
You know, my friends could only help me so much, right?
21:36
My family could only help me so much.
21:38
And you know, the girlfriend stuck around.
21:41
Actually, she was the only person that was there for me,
21:43
probably pretty much. But at the end of it, which is
21:46
why it was so hard to, you know, to, to break up and tell her I
21:51
have to focus on myself for a while, you know, but it's the
21:55
best thing for me now that I look back at it at, at the, at
21:59
the end of the day, right, Because I can't transmit to you
22:03
something that I don't have, like I can't.
22:05
And, and you know, she deserved to, to, I don't want to get too
22:10
much into it, but she's a good person and deserves more than,
22:12
you know, what I was able to give her at the time.
22:14
So. Well said.
22:16
Yeah, I wanted two things. But I I want to talk about the
22:20
relationship piece in her Lisa Bride because I think that's so
22:23
important for guys and and women too.
22:25
But I was always taught not to get into a relationship in the
22:27
first year. But even, you know, I've done it
22:31
in in my recovery. The the last time I celebrated a
22:33
year, I got into a relationship the same thing like 13 months
22:36
and it was fucking hard to like I I stayed sober through it, but
22:39
I don't it was it was tough. So I want to get into that.
22:41
But I want to ask you, I'm curious, when you had that drink
22:45
at the casino, what did your next couple of weeks months look
22:48
like? Did you go like head first?
22:50
Was it a slow? Head.
22:51
Head first, I'm the type of person that doesn't drink
22:55
without using and I and I know that in the back of my head, but
22:59
for whatever reason, my head was like, you can have a few drinks,
23:02
right? Like I've always kind of had
23:03
that reservation where it's like, you know, if you have a
23:06
bit of time under your belt, which I've never had in in my
23:09
life, like I've never had a year or sober.
23:11
I've never had 15 months over 16.
23:13
Whatever it was, it was 60 days back out, 60 days back out, 60
23:17
days back out. So my head was was saying, OK,
23:19
you know, you've got you're in school, you've got a girlfriend,
23:22
you've got a job, you've got a program around you, you're
23:24
working out, you're healthy, you can have a fucking drink.
23:27
And I took that drink. And I kid you not, Anthony, like
23:32
I think 4 hours after I was, I was in a dangerous place with
23:36
the dangerous people getting, you know, some, some cocaine or
23:41
crack or whatever you want to call it.
23:42
And the next day when, and I'm supposed to be watching over the
23:49
Silver House at this time, right?
23:51
Like Eric's put me in charge to watch over 8 guys and make sure
23:54
people aren't using. And you know, I'm, I'm not even
23:57
there. I was gone.
23:58
I didn't go back to the house, you know, Alan was calling me
24:02
looking for me. My girlfriend at the time was
24:04
calling me, looking for me. And they actually found they
24:06
found where I was. Actually, I was in the jungle,
24:08
like they call it the jungle in off Eglington W down there.
24:14
And, and my friend actually who you know, who works at the
24:19
center used to party there and she's the one who told them
24:22
where I was. And I remember, I think it was
24:25
like my 4th day of using or something again, my phone's
24:28
gone, phone's off. Nobody's able to get a hold of
24:31
me. And you know, I turn around and
24:35
I see Alan and my girlfriend at the time and I'm just, and
24:40
Alan's girlfriend Jacqueline, and I'm just like in shock.
24:43
I've never had such bad pro post traumatic stress in my life,
24:47
man. And you know, they, they came
24:49
and got me, they dragged me out. They brought me to Eric, brought
24:54
me into detox. And I think that was after like
24:58
a week of using. And I remember looking at Josh
25:00
and Josh saying, bro, you've lost a lot of weight.
25:03
Like 7 days. I, I don't know about you like,
25:06
but when I'm using, I don't eat, I don't sleep, I don't drink.
25:09
Nothing else matters. Nothing else matters.
25:11
Except for getting. Away.
25:12
Exactly. So that's what happened.
25:15
He took me into detox. I left, right.
25:20
I wasn't done yet. I I went out and used again.
25:23
I went into the KMH detox. I left.
25:25
I wasn't done yet. Eric brought me in again.
25:30
I sobered up for about a month and then I left, you know, and
25:36
that went on for about four months.
25:38
And then I remember calling Alan and, or my mom, my, and my mom
25:44
called Alan and, you know, said he needs help and that he's
25:48
serious this time. And, and I was, you know, and
25:51
they sent me to the last door out West in Vancouver, which is,
25:57
you know, crazy. It's an amazing treatment
26:00
center, just not what I'm used to.
26:02
You know, it's it's hardcore. Like it's, it's not like
26:05
addiction. It's not like art, like where
26:08
there's nice, you know, beds and and you know, personal chefs.
26:12
I think they have a chef there. But it's just it's it's very
26:15
strict. You know, the the rules are very
26:17
strict. You you always have to bring
26:19
somebody with you. If you're going somewhere, you
26:21
can't call anybody until like the two weeks is done and you
26:24
have to complete the 12 steps before you go the anyway and
26:29
like the for yeah. Anyway, sorry for.
26:32
Oh, no, you're good. You're good.
26:33
I mean, it's called the last. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:36
That kind of says everything about it.
26:37
Exactly. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:39
Dude, the fuck, man. Yeah.
26:40
It's incredible. I mean, my first treatment
26:44
center, I went to Hazelden when I was 23 in Minnesota, and it
26:47
was much like that where I was the oldest guy.
26:49
There was a lot of young kids there.
26:51
Yeah. And it was like, no bullshit.
26:53
You don't follow the rules. Like you're you're you're
26:57
fucking gone, right? There's the door.
26:58
You can leave whenever you want, but we're not giving you your
27:00
passport back or not. And I'm in the middle of
27:02
Minnesota. I'm not going anywhere.
27:04
Right, And I was with a bunch of opiate users, right?
27:07
Where it was like so easy for me to, I'm not like, I'm not that
27:10
bad guys. Like meanwhile, I'm using
27:12
cocaine every day and you know, I can touch my fingers in
27:15
between my nose. My, my body is a complete mess.
27:17
I'm, I'm a mess. But yeah, it's like something
27:21
just clicked while I was in there.
27:22
And I always call it hope, right?
27:24
I think hope is like the most important thing for us.
27:27
We need to be able to see people working some program that we
27:31
wouldn't, we would have hung out with, you know what I mean?
27:34
Like we can relate to, it's like, fuck, this guy's cool and
27:37
he's sober and he's smiling all the time and he's in a fucking
27:41
rehab. Like there's something here,
27:43
man, what's going on? Maybe I can be happy without
27:45
drugs. And that's, that's, that's like
27:46
the kind of seed that gets planted.
27:49
But to your point, man, it's like when I got out of there, I
27:54
was, I'm so defiant. I think we're we sounds like
27:56
we're both, we're like that and. Entitled and defiant.
27:59
So when I relapsed and I've been to three rehabs, when I went to
28:01
this third one and they told me I had to stay 60 days instead of
28:05
30I fought them for maybe like a week and a half before I finally
28:09
just fucking shut up dude. Just like an extra 30 days
28:14
looking back, it's like hilarious, right, 'cause that's
28:16
like 30 days in rehab compared to, I don't know, prison or
28:18
whatever. It's, it's so easy looking back,
28:21
but when you're in it, man, it's like it sucks.
28:23
It's so, especially when you had some recovery before.
28:26
That's the hardest part I think too, Anthony.
28:28
Like, like you said, like having what did you, how did you say?
28:32
A belly full of beer and a head full of recovery.
28:35
Head full of recovery and a belly full.
28:37
Yeah, so like, yeah, it's so, it's so true.
28:40
It's so true, 'cause like my my buddy used to always say his
28:45
cocaine's cut with recovery now, same type of deal, right?
28:50
That's great. Yeah, his cocaine's cut with
28:52
recovery. Percent.
28:53
Every time he does a line, somebody would call from
28:56
recovery and. Or he would get a memory of like
28:58
how much better life is right in recovery.
29:01
Yeah. So it's like that that always
29:04
for. Me, for me, it was like, I would
29:06
hear, I'd be like these Airbnbs and I would hear police sirens,
29:09
yeah, like we do in Toronto every day.
29:10
And I'd be like, they're fucking coming for me for sure, 100%.
29:13
They're coming for me. Yeah.
29:14
And you start, you're like, whatever am I done wrong?
29:15
What am I on the right? And then you're like, nothing,
29:17
OK, but they're not coming for me.
29:19
And then you're. And then you get reminded you're
29:20
like, God, there was a time when that never bothered me.
29:24
Yeah. And so those things started to
29:25
come up. You're like, I remember not
29:27
being bothered by police. Police sirens.
29:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now it's all I can think
29:31
about is I got to hide the shit I'm.
29:32
Yeah, who's in my phone? That's another reason why I get
29:35
rid of my phone right away. I think I start to think like,
29:37
yeah, yeah, the cops are after me or, you know, somebody's
29:41
going through my phone or so my location is on or just it's not
29:45
enjoyable. I I want to talk about this
29:47
relationship piece 'cause I think, I don't think I've ever
29:48
talked about this on the podcast, but it's so important.
29:50
I think a lot of guys that I know and some women too, but I
29:53
talk to more guys about this. Yeah, They don't relapse because
29:56
of girls, right? It's not but, but it's, it seems
29:58
to be sort of a hand in hand thing where it's like I wanna
30:02
get in a relationship because I need to cling on to something.
30:05
You know, I'm not using my solution is gone out the window.
30:08
I need a new solution. I'm not ready for the spiritual
30:10
1 yet, 'cause I'm newly sober or I don't understand it or I've,
30:13
you know, I'm still taking my will back.
30:14
I'm gonna choose a woman, a relationship, gambling,
30:16
whatever, right. So why do you think we can't
30:20
have why I don't wanna say can't.
30:23
Why do you think it's it's hard to do relationships in early
30:26
recovery? I mean, like, for, for me.
30:30
And, yeah, good way to put it, Anthony.
30:33
Yeah. So it's like I'm still trying
30:36
to. And I think now, you know, it's
30:38
it's it's getting better. But I'm trying to like, get a
30:41
sense of my values and integrity and morals and like who I am as
30:44
a person, what I like, what I don't like.
30:46
So if I don't even know who I am or what I like or love myself
30:50
yet, you know, it's so cliche how they say it, but it's also
30:53
the truth. How am I gonna love you and give
30:55
you what you need if I'm still trying to, you know, it's a
30:57
selfish program, right? And I just think like, I don't
31:01
know about you, but like that relationship I had that was
31:05
unhealthy that I was talking to you about brought up a lot of
31:09
the one when I was younger, like when I went to jail, not, not
31:12
the most recent one, brought up a lot of like insecurities and,
31:16
and the recent one that I was just in, you know, like the
31:19
trust issues and how insecure I can be sometimes.
31:24
And, you know, just like accountability and communication
31:29
and all these things, they're, they're so difficult.
31:31
Like if, if you're not ready for them, you know, if I'm not ready
31:35
for them and you know, I'm just kind of like now starting to
31:39
touch the surface of my foundation.
31:41
I thought I was ready because it was like, OK, you get, wait
31:43
until you get your year. Everybody kept telling me wait
31:45
until you got and I did. And right away, after I got my
31:48
year, the first thing I started to look for was a relationship,
31:52
you know, instead of like naturally letting it come to me.
31:55
And you know, I, when I got the 16 months, I, I stayed away from
32:01
relationships and I also stayed away from sex for 15 months and
32:04
I thrived. It was the best I had ever done,
32:07
you know, So that's what I'm doing now, coming up to six
32:09
months again, which is the second most, most amount of
32:12
clean time I've ever had in my life.
32:14
Again, I'm not having sex. I'm not in relationships and I
32:19
just need to focus on myself right now.
32:20
And I would advise everybody, unless you're married with kids
32:23
or, or, you know, you have somebody that's like stayed true
32:27
to you and held you down through all this, which, you know, the
32:30
last one I was with, I don't want to mention her name just
32:33
because I don't want to break her anonymity.
32:34
But she stayed solid and like, she was loyal and like I said,
32:37
she was like the only person who was there for me at the end.
32:39
But again, I, I wasn't ready for it.
32:41
You know, she can be five years sober and be a psychotherapist
32:45
and personal trainer and all these things and have a good
32:47
program. If I'm not like, okay with
32:49
myself, it's just gonna reflect on her and I'll take it out on
32:53
her or take it out on myself, which is what I ended up doing
32:56
so far, yeah. Well said man.
32:58
No, I think it's so true. It's like relationships are hard
33:00
for normal people without addiction and alcoholism, right?
33:03
Right. I don't know about you, but I
33:05
drank, used, partied, gambled. I use outside things to change
33:09
my insides because I don't like the emotions that come up, the
33:12
thought, the future, the I have to do that thing.
33:14
Fuck, I'm just gonna yeah, I'm gone and I'm not thinking about
33:18
it. So you add another dynamic into
33:21
your life relationship. It's tapping all sorts of,
33:26
you've said it perfectly, insecurities, things I didn't
33:28
even know I was struggling with. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:30
And now they're brought to the surface.
33:31
If I don't have a strong recovery program, I always tell
33:34
guys that I work with too. I'm like, you can, you can date
33:36
in early recovery. You can.
33:38
Yeah. I, I'm not gonna tell you not to
33:39
do it, but you better be fucking working your program 35 times
33:42
harder than you would have. I strongly advise against it.
33:46
To your point. It's like, why add the undue
33:48
stress? I I also love what you said too.
33:50
It's like a good, it's it's real simple.
33:53
I was looking for a relationship instead of letting it.
33:56
I love that instead of letting it come to me, that's you said
33:59
it perfectly. What's my motive here?
34:00
Right, Right. I'm trying to feel better about
34:02
myself by using other women. Right?
34:04
Yeah. And not not just for sex, but
34:06
for emotional comfort. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
34:09
So somebody to just hold me? Yeah.
34:11
Because I I can't hold myself. Right, right.
34:13
So if if I'm look, it's it's really this simple.
34:16
Am I looking for that or am I letting it come to me?
34:20
Yeah, yeah. And then you only you can answer
34:23
that question absolutely. So maybe just wait a bit, right?
34:25
Yeah, I'm not telling you. I'm saying to.
34:26
Everybody to everybody. Just wait a bit.
34:28
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just give it a minute.
34:30
Yeah. Give it a year and then give it
34:31
another year after. It came to me, man.
34:33
My my wife came to me when I wasn't looking for a
34:36
relationship in seven years and wow, you know.
34:40
So you had, so you. Had 7 1/2 years. 7 1/2 years.
34:42
Yeah. What brought you out?
34:43
My relapse was, and I won't get too into it because I always
34:46
talk about it on here. I don't want to bore people.
34:48
Yeah, but essentially it started with steroids.
34:51
It started with on the steroids and hiding them and then to to
34:55
fix my body dysmorphia issues. And then I would say this, it's
35:00
like relapse. Steroids didn't make me relapse.
35:02
It was the fact that there was the relationship around it,
35:04
Right. Right.
35:05
And yeah, I would tell my sponsor like I was getting it
35:07
legally, which I was so, but I was telling people 90% of the
35:10
truth. Yeah.
35:11
And then the 10% I was back here, I got this trend in my
35:14
hand. I'm not gonna tell them about
35:16
that. Yeah.
35:16
And I'm diving into all sorts of other steroids, right.
35:19
Yeah. I had a counselor in my I went
35:21
to in Utah. I love the guy in fucking Jam
35:24
over. Here.
35:24
How is he? I heard Utah's amazing.
35:26
Beautiful. I would recommend it.
35:27
Yeah, I'm excited to go back. It's in the desert, not.
35:29
In rehab out there. Yeah, it's near Colorado.
35:31
It's like Appalachian Mountains, I think.
35:33
Yeah. But I had his name was Sam and
35:35
he would always say, you know, if you're you're robbing banks
35:38
90% or sorry, you're robbing banks 10% of the time.
35:41
But the 90% of the time you're not robbing banks, you're still
35:43
a fucking stale. OK.
35:45
And I was like, yeah, I, I tried to think of that today.
35:47
It goes back to your integrity. Thing, right?
35:50
Yeah. What am I doing in my recovery
35:52
that I wouldn't be telling people about?
35:55
Right, You know? Yeah.
35:57
And, and not in a braggy sort of like, hey, I robbed a bank.
36:00
No, but no. You know when you're doing the
36:02
wrong. Thing sneaky thing like, yeah
36:04
and it's it's like putting nine eggs in in your in your basket
36:08
and leaving that 10th one out or whatever they say right like,
36:12
and it goes to being like all in in this program half measures
36:16
available as nothing right So it's like if I can that's just
36:21
for me though, because I don't know about you Anthony, but I
36:23
know a lot of people in recovery that that do some stuff on the
36:26
side and still stay sober right And and I'm always battling in
36:30
my head like how come he can do that?
36:32
Why, why are they able to, to, to do this and make money this
36:35
way or whatever it is? But I, I'm stuck here like being
36:39
a good guy, being a good guy. Yeah, like I don't want to
36:42
always be a good guy, but I, but I have to be because for the,
36:46
you know, for, for people like us.
36:47
I think it's, it's so crucial and critical because is like, if
36:51
I don't pay for the, the bus, it eats me up now or I've got to
36:55
put it on my. Inventory and, and that's what
36:58
leads to the relapse. It's like these unchecked
37:00
emotions that keep coming back up, you know, and that's why I
37:03
always like to make the connection between being
37:06
practicing integrity and staying sober.
37:09
If I'm practicing integrity, I, I, I don't have to deal with
37:12
those shame emotions that keep coming up.
37:14
If I'm a bad person, I shouldn't have done that.
37:18
So yeah, I, I laugh because like, I same thing.
37:21
I'm like comparison is the thief of joy.
37:23
It's so true of that, where it's just like, why can that guy get
37:25
away with for me? Here was here was my thing
37:28
because I relapsed on ADHD medication by the end of it.
37:30
That's why it led me back to meth and yeah, using the dark
37:32
web and all this sorts of shit. Yeah, yeah, I've gone down that
37:35
road. Yeah, yeah.
37:36
Yeah, you can fucking get a lot of shit on there, but yeah,
37:39
yeah, I don't. I fucking threw out that
37:41
computer. I'd be smart.
37:42
I would get dope and get rid of the heart from shopping for
37:44
drugs. Yeah, like at 4:00 in the
37:46
morning, that was like. It was almost better than the
37:48
actual high. Exactly, that was my thing, was
37:50
the pursuing, looking at pictures like it was insane.
37:53
Yeah, it was insane. And so.
37:56
I used to just go on my phone for hours and reset all the
37:59
settings on my phone when that was when I used to do.
38:03
Math very like. Just fiddle with the settings.
38:05
Yeah, just like like his dopamine or no 'cause I thought
38:08
people were like in it or whatever, right?
38:10
Like it would get weird, like password psychosis almost, and I
38:13
would rearrange all the passwords.
38:15
And anyways. I've done that.
38:16
Scary. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's my buddy
38:19
calls it. But yeah, so I, I there would be
38:22
people in in recovery that I knew that were on ADHD
38:25
medication. And so that was a dangerous
38:27
thing for me because they actually had ADHD.
38:28
I don't have ADHD. I convinced myself I had ADHD
38:31
when the doctor asked me, hey, did you struggle with substance
38:34
abuse in the past? I would always click no on the
38:36
thing. It's like integrity, right?
38:38
Yeah. ANYWAYS, they would be doing it
38:40
for years. And it's like, why can't they
38:43
get away with it? And but it's like, dude, you
38:45
don't have ADHD. Stop.
38:46
Stop. Yeah, you're just trying to
38:48
fucking change your insides with outside things.
38:51
I had the same problem with benzos for a long time.
38:53
There's always like, OK, well this guy's taking it.
38:56
He has anxiety. I know I definitely have anxiety
38:59
like for sure. Doctor, now all the.
39:01
Yeah, yeah, right, right for but I've been through more than him,
39:04
you know, I should be able to take a benzo once in a while
39:07
again, but this it's the same effect.
39:09
It's like if I start, you know, taking benzodiazepine, I'm going
39:12
to abuse it. I'm going to abuse it to the
39:14
point where I feel drunk and then I'm going to go get blow
39:15
it's. Just the risk reward is but it's
39:18
it's hard to see that now, right?
39:19
I mean, now it's, it's easier to see that right.
39:21
But when you're in that thought pattern, you've you've already,
39:24
we all know you've relapsed weeks before you actually for
39:26
sure. You're fucking contemplating
39:28
you're you're, you know, making up deals with yourself,
39:31
justifying things. Yeah, it's a dangerous place to
39:34
be. And then yeah, I one of my
39:36
favorite lines in in the the book that I came across this
39:39
time in recovery was I have simply lost my right to chemical
39:44
Peace of Mind. I love that.
39:46
It's like I just, I cannot safely use anything, right.
39:51
That's why, like, I see a lot of people with these and I, you
39:54
know, I, again, we don't need to take other people's inventory,
39:57
but I'm very good at it. Yeah.
39:59
When you start to see like, peptides and like all these
40:01
other things. Yeah, for me, Listen, I'm not
40:03
going to tell anyone. You're going to fucking relapse
40:05
after that. Yeah.
40:06
Know your motive. Yeah.
40:07
Be honest with yourself, be honest with others.
40:09
Absolutely. And it's like, you know, I went
40:11
through an Ozempic phase for a long time and it all fucking
40:14
just trickles back to the same, to the same.
40:16
So now, today. I cannot use anything.
40:19
Yeah, right. And you know that, yeah.
40:21
And that's just me. Has to be like smashed into your
40:23
head, right? Like for for me, like I, when I
40:26
went to the last store, I got off a lot of medication that I
40:28
was, you know, taking and I wasn't abusing it, but it would
40:33
have eventually went down that road.
40:35
You know, I would have ended up abusing it or tried to match it
40:38
with it's like it's almost like a safety net, you know, where
40:43
it's where it's like you're still escaping.
40:48
Yeah, it's some, some type of way like listen, some people
40:51
need medication 100%. I'm not like anti Med, but like
40:56
if it's a narcotic, in my experience, it's it's not, it's
41:02
not going to end well for the real like type 3 or whatever you
41:05
want for the real addict, Right? So yeah.
41:10
And what else did I want to say? What was the last thing that we.
41:17
Were talking about medication. And relationship yeah,
41:22
relationship was yeah yeah, anyways, let's.
41:25
What? So what do you think?
41:29
What do you think has changed this time around from the last
41:33
time? You wanted something funny
41:36
actually is like, I've always like ran from my emotions, you
41:46
know, like if I had broken up with somebody in recovery in the
41:52
past and you know, which was the hardest, one of the hardest
41:58
things I've had to do in recovery for me, like
42:00
personally, I, I don't deal well with, you know, emotion,
42:05
especially when it comes to a break up or relationships, but I
42:09
think like they're just it, it got it got to the point where
42:14
it's, it was, you know, after having the 16 months sober and
42:18
relapsing, it got scary for me. And I was like, this is I'm
42:22
either going to die, end up in jail for a long time or, or, you
42:27
know, I'm going to seek spiritual help or some type of
42:29
program in recovery and I'm going to get better.
42:31
And I'm not going to be able to do that unless I focus on myself
42:36
right now and like having to do that.
42:40
And you know, to the one person who was like there for me
42:43
through all this shit, I just felt while I was in a place at
42:49
this, at the time, I was in a sober living facility where, you
42:53
know, people working constantly relapsing around me.
42:56
And like, I stayed sober through that.
42:59
And I, I just felt like it got to a point where I'm just done,
43:04
you know, like, it doesn't matter what you throw at me.
43:07
I don't care what happens, who passes away, what legal issues I
43:10
have to go through if I get the job, if I don't get the job, if
43:13
I lose a girl, don't lose a girl.
43:14
Like I, I just felt like I got to that point where it's like,
43:18
I'm done, you know, and that doesn't mean that it can't come
43:21
back. And I can use again.
43:25
So I gotta be careful, like I gotta stay on the beam, right?
43:27
And and like keep my program intact.
43:29
But I've also, you know, gone through a lot of emotions, a lot
43:35
of anger, like resentment, you know, towards a lot of people,
43:38
but mainly towards myself, taking it out on other people
43:41
that don't really deserve it, you know, or some do deserve it
43:45
in my opinion. But again, like that's not my, I
43:48
got to clean my side of the street, right?
43:50
That's all that matters. So anyways, what's different is
43:52
I just feel like I'm, I'm able to like handle my emotions a lot
43:59
better and I know what to do. Like I don't want to say I know
44:04
what to do now 'cause it sounds close minded and I want to be
44:06
open minded. And like every morning I pray
44:10
for a new experience in recovery to my higher power.
44:13
I say that like 3 * a day. And you know, I ask my higher
44:15
power to give me what I need and not what I want because what I
44:18
want usually takes me back out, right?
44:20
So, but I just feel like I, I know what I have to do and I'm
44:24
dedicated and motivated to doing it again.
44:26
And you know, I want I want back what I got last time times more
44:31
like if I can do what I did last time in a in a year, you know,
44:35
in five years, who knows where this can take us, right?
44:38
Like you, you know, obviously you've had seven and a half
44:40
fourth dimension. Rule right, right.
44:42
It's you get rocketed if you stay in the middle and do the
44:46
things that are suggested of you.
44:47
Yeah, I, I want to talk about spirituality 'cause I love
44:55
talking about spirituality and I think it's so essential for the
44:59
type 3 the, the real alcoholic addict.
45:01
I don't, you know, I think some people get sober without it.
45:04
I've, I've, the more I've been doing the podcast and social
45:07
media, I've met a lot of people that don't necessarily need to
45:10
go the spiritual route. In my opinion, they're missing a
45:14
huge, amazing, beautiful part of life.
45:16
I think for sure. You know, it's funny how this
45:18
thing works. Like I'll, I'll be watch, I'll
45:20
be on social media and I'll, I'll start seeing people that I
45:23
truly admire that are not even near the addiction realm where
45:27
they don't have a problem. And, and they start talking
45:29
about God and spirituality, very successful, humble people.
45:34
And I'm like, you know, there's, and I've always known this.
45:36
There's something here right there.
45:38
There's something to be had. And it's not me going to church.
45:41
It's like you said, talking to a power greater than yourself,
45:45
turning over your, your thoughts and your actions, right.
45:47
So what does, what does spirituality mean to you?
45:49
And what is it? Why is it important?
45:51
I think like the main, the main thing is humility, you know, for
45:56
me, for, for spirituality. And it sounds like, you know,
46:01
like this small thing, but I don't know, I don't know about
46:04
you. I, I feel like you might be
46:06
similar, but for me, like ego is a huge, huge thing.
46:09
You know, I start to get things back.
46:11
I start to look a bit better, I think a bit better.
46:14
People start to like me again. And then, you know, it's my will
46:18
and I and I started living in my will and like looking at what I
46:21
can take and what I can get instead of what, what can I give
46:23
to you and how can I be of service, right?
46:25
So I think like spirituality is just like living in love, you
46:29
know, and I do believe like there's a greater, greater
46:35
consciousness or whatever you want to say that's like we're
46:38
all guided by, you know, I choose to call it God
46:42
personally. I also think like everybody's
46:46
looking for this burning Bush moment or for, you know, white
46:49
light, a white light or the clouds to spread and like
46:52
lightning to come down when, you know, our book, it says, or the
46:57
book that I use, it says God is God is within us, you know, deep
47:03
down in every manner. And a child is a fundamental
47:05
idea of God, right? So, yeah, I think like just let,
47:09
and it goes back to integrity again as well, just living in
47:13
what I think is and not always what I think because like I can
47:16
manipulate my thinking without thinking.
47:18
I'm manipulating my thinking. Yeah, right, right.
47:21
Yeah. So it's just kind of what the
47:24
right thing to do is. And sometimes I got to call my,
47:27
you know, my mentor, sponsor, counselor, you know, Eric Allen,
47:34
who people, Josh, people that I trust, right.
47:36
And that I know have my best interest at heart and, you know,
47:41
just kind of do the right thing. And it's not always easy because
47:46
sometimes I don't know what the right thing is, but.
47:49
That's when you reach out for help, though.
47:51
It's like you said, right, Right.
47:52
And, and yeah, you mentioned like your phone now is filled
47:54
with people in recovery. Yeah.
47:56
The last guy I had in here, Jamie, he he talked about, you
47:59
know, messaging and, and keeping in touch with people in
48:02
recovery. How important is that to you?
48:05
And what does that look like? Honestly, it's I, I could do a
48:09
better, sorry, I could do a better job at it, to be honest
48:14
with you. But it's, it's, you know, the
48:17
vital importance to like connection like everybody knows.
48:21
Or if you don't know, it's the opposite of addiction, right?
48:23
Or isolation, whatever you want to say.
48:25
So even just like this, if somebody asked me to to speak at
48:31
a recovery meeting or if you asked me to come on the podcast,
48:34
which thank you, by the way, I'm grateful, nice to officially
48:36
have this talk with you. But I think just like picking up
48:39
the phone and calling, right? Like either I'm picking up the
48:42
phone and I'm calling my dope dealer or I'm picking up the
48:45
phone and I'm calling somebody to talk me out of calling my
48:47
dope dealer. So it's, it's, it's really
48:49
important. I try to call at least one
48:51
person a day. I think there was probably a
48:55
number of times last year where I was like 6 months sober or
48:59
eight months sober or nine months sober and I was, I was
49:03
gone. Like in my head, I, I didn't
49:05
tell anybody this, but there were a number of times when I
49:11
was getting ready to go pick up and use and for whatever reason,
49:16
Eric called me or he came by the house and he took me for coffee
49:19
or Alan called me or, or Josh or somebody called me, right?
49:23
And I was just like, OK, like that's God.
49:26
Like in my opinion that right. So yeah, spirituality, I mean,
49:31
it looks different for a lot of different people.
49:33
But like you said, it doesn't have to be in a church that you
49:37
know, my, my spirituality is in a church basement, you know,
49:41
with coffee and. Old men and and women or
49:45
whatever, right so. Yeah, I mean, a power greater
49:47
than yourself is a group of people, a group of drunks.
49:51
It's so essential, right? My way is not working.
49:54
I need a new plan. And I'm going to go to these
49:56
people who have gotten a plan from other people before.
49:59
Then it's not their plan, right? It's it's this sort of shared
50:03
plan. Call people when you want to
50:05
drink, do service when you can. Practice principles, 12
50:09
principles in your life every day.
50:11
Like it's not, it's not really up for debate, right?
50:15
Whether it works or not. I've seen it working thousands
50:17
of people over the 10 years that I've been in recovery.
50:20
And when the more tapped in I am to that if I just trust the
50:23
process, it'll all work out. Here's my thing that I I want to
50:26
get into because we talked a little bit.
50:28
I like talking about unmanageability.
50:29
On this podcast like. Current unmanageability you, you
50:32
kind of opened up and I'd love to hear more about what you're
50:35
struggling with. But for me, I was really looking
50:38
forward to today and I, I can't always say that with the podcast
50:41
because it's become like, I don't want to say boring.
50:45
It's become sort of like. Yeah, just like.
50:50
You know, yeah, I'm not getting results that I want in
50:53
quotations, right? I'm not.
50:55
These things aren't happening. And and I'm just trying to stay
50:57
consistent with it. So it's like, you know, I posted
50:59
that thing and I saw that you you commented on it.
51:01
It's like passion is something that you're willing to suffer
51:04
through. Yeah.
51:05
And I'm like, when I saw that, I was like, yeah, dude, like, I
51:07
love this shit. Yeah.
51:08
But I don't always love it. You know what I mean?
51:10
I don't like, it's work, right? Yeah.
51:12
I don't want to always get out of my house and spend money and
51:14
and not get anything in return. I can be a baby about it.
51:17
Yeah, of course. But like, fuck, every time I do
51:19
it, I come away and people I meet the coolest people, I get
51:21
messages and people are like, hey, man, that guy was really
51:23
good. Thank you for that.
51:24
Yeah. Yeah.
51:24
So like, yeah, I'm willing to suffer for it, you know, And and
51:29
that's what I think is, is important today.
51:30
I'm kind of in this place in my recovery right now.
51:32
I just celebrated a year again, where.
51:35
Thanks, man. And so, like, you too, man.
51:37
Like, it's amazing to hear your story and like that you're
51:40
alive. That's we shouldn't be here, you
51:42
know, both of us. I've been in many scenarios
51:44
where I should be dead. Yeah, and God had another plan,
51:48
right? And I think that plan is to help
51:51
one person somewhere along the line, you know, And so that's
51:55
what I try to keep in in mind with this is like stop, detach
51:58
from the outcomes. Just keep doing it because
52:02
there's a purpose here. And so I would say like, that's
52:05
my biggest struggle right now is, is sort of I get in my head
52:08
a lot. But where I was going with all
52:10
this is I was sitting at home today and we move this up a day,
52:13
which thank you, by the way. Yeah, of course I was in my head
52:16
about my financial is my problem right now.
52:18
And I keep I go back to this idea of like, turn it over, turn
52:21
it over, turn it over. You remember when you used to do
52:23
lines when you had financial problems?
52:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now just fucking do a hit of
52:26
God. Right.
52:27
Yeah, yeah, whatever it is, whatever, it works.
52:29
Talk to God about it, turn it over, ask for help.
52:32
Yeah, but it's tough, man. Like when you're in it, like
52:35
it's a daily thing for sure. Like some days it's like I'm
52:39
just like, I might not be able to pay my mortgage.
52:40
All these things are just coming up.
52:41
And it's like, it's not, yes, there are problems in my life,
52:45
but I was taught by one of my favorite speakers that it's,
52:49
it's everything's perception. It's how I'm looking at it, you
52:51
know, But when you're in it, man.
52:52
So my point with all this huge ramble is when I got up my ass
52:56
and came here, it just went away.
52:58
It's gone. You know, I'm sure it'll come
53:00
back at some point. Yeah, for sure.
53:01
My point with all that is like, action's so important, right?
53:05
Whether it's calling, going to a meeting, whatever The thing is.
53:09
That's like the number one, like faith without works is dead
53:13
right. And like one thing I've always
53:15
been good at Anthony, I love how you said that is, you know, I,
53:18
I've struggled with the open mindedness, you know, honesty,
53:21
open mindedness, willingness, willingness.
53:22
I have no problem. I'll get up, I'll go, I'll do
53:25
whatever. You know, I like to keep moving.
53:27
I was talking to Tamara yesterday when you know, and she
53:31
was like, do you have any rest days set up?
53:33
And I was just like, no, I do better when I'm moving, you
53:35
know, which is the truth. But yeah, and I think like, as
53:39
to your point, it's just there's a line in one of the books and
53:44
it says the real surrender is surrendering to the fact that
53:47
I'll be surrendering for the rest of my life.
53:49
So it's like just little surrenders throughout my day.
53:51
OK, I can't pay this surrender. This person thinks this about me
53:55
Surrender. Turn it over, like you said,
53:56
right 'cause eventually it'll, you know, it'll, it'll work out,
54:00
bro. It'll all work out.
54:01
And that's just like the hope that you said, which is the
54:03
number one thing. Like, I've been at this for
54:06
almost 10 years. And after I relapsed after my 15
54:10
months, I never thought I'd pick up a drink or a drug again.
54:13
I was like, this is not supposed to be my story, you know?
54:16
But like you said, like, that hope and like that faith is what
54:20
it's carried me to almost six months now.
54:21
So yeah. So I, I love that I haven't come
54:24
across that. I'm sure I've come across that
54:25
line for sure. It's like, you know when you're
54:27
reading it and you're like, did they?
54:28
Always have that in yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
54:30
So. Surrender to the fact that you
54:32
will be surrendering for the rest of your.
54:33
Life. Yeah, The real surrender is
54:35
surrender, rendering to the fact that I'll be surrendering for
54:37
the rest. And and that, that's not a life
54:38
sentence either. No, that's a beautiful.
54:40
As I said, you're listening to that.
54:42
Yeah. Because I'm in a better mood
54:43
now. It's a beautiful thing.
54:45
Yeah. Yeah.
54:46
If you told me that three hours ago, I'd be like.
54:48
Yeah, fuck, I know. Fuck yeah, Yeah, for sure.
54:50
But. It's it's beautiful.
54:51
Like, yeah, because then I'm not, I don't, I don't have to
54:54
fucking. It takes the pressure off.
54:57
Yeah, yeah. We don't have to be perfect.
54:59
Yeah. And it's like everything we're,
55:01
you know, we're not on the streets, we're not in jail,
55:03
we're not starving. So, but it's money's of like
55:07
things are expensive right now. You know, it's easy to get
55:11
caught up in that for sure. I get caught up in it all the
55:14
time. Yeah, yeah.
55:15
And then I always like to go back to.
55:17
Thank you, by the way. That was great.
55:18
Yeah, I always like to go back to the what can I do about this
55:22
right now, in this moment? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:25
Nothing. It's always not gonna rob the
55:27
bank. You know what I do like?
55:28
Yeah. It is like, yeah.
55:30
Do I want to do that? Yeah.
55:32
No, not anymore. Yeah, probably not.
55:34
What's gonna happen after that, Right.
55:35
Yeah. Beautifully said, man.
55:38
Let's. Let's finish with this.
55:40
I got a lot of today. Thank you for coming down.
55:42
Thank you. If you could say something to
55:44
that. Younger.
55:45
Sorry, not younger. That early recovery, Steven.
55:48
Yeah. What would you say?
55:51
Just don't give up, you know, keep coming back.
55:57
Listen to what people who have come before you tell you to do.
56:02
They call it suggestions. My friend Mike the tree says
56:05
it's a suggestion like pulling your parachute when you're
56:07
jumping out of a plane. I.
56:08
Used to have a sponsor say that to me.
56:09
Yeah, it's their truth. Just do what they tell you to
56:12
do, you know, and get in the middle of this thing, hit the
56:15
ground running and and, you know, just never give up.
56:19
But I guess and don't lose hope. Yeah.
56:22
Yeah. Thank you.
56:24
Thanks man. Thanks for listening.
56:27
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56:42
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