Latest / Project Podcast / Endurance22: Lessons from the project to discover Ernest Shackleton's lost ship

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Endurance22: Lessons from the project to discover Ernest Shackleton's lost ship · Project Podcast

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Welcome to the IPM podcast. APM is the childhood body for
0:12
the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm
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the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host
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today. I'm speaking to Nico, Vincent
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subsea project manager of the endurance, 22 Expedition that on
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the 5th of March this year. Found the wreck of endurance sir
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Ernest Shackleton Owens ship which sank off the coast of
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Antarctica hundred and seven years ago.
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The wreckage was discovered at a depth of three thousand and
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eight meters around for miles south of where it was reported
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to have been lost by frankerz endurance's captain in 1915
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endurance. 22, set off from Cape Town in February, this year,
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with a team of 63 people, plus the crew aboard, the South
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African Icebreaker, a glass. To the Expedition has reportedly
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cost around 7.6 million pounds. And this podcast, Snicker
1:02
explains how the project team used to sob Sabretooth hybrid
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underwater search vehicles to find the Shipwreck.
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One of the most complex subsea projects ever undertaken.
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He spent 30 years recovering, deep-sea wrecks, and gives us
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his project management insights. And what it takes to prepare for
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a once-in-a-lifetime project like this, how it feels to see
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such a piece of history and the lessons he takes away from the
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successful project. Welcome Nico.
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Thank you for giving us your time, really interested in
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finding out more about endurance. 22, would you like to
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start by giving us an overview of the project?
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What its mission was the goals deliverables.
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Milestones, how long you've been working on this?
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The purpose of endurance. 22 was to discover the wreck of the
1:54
endurance lost in 1915 by the Expedition led by Sir, Ernest
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Shackleton. And then to deliver a full
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survey of the wreck to roll all science analyzes for for the
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next decades because it's so much complicated to go there.
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Can you tell us where it where it is so rich?
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So, it's in the Antarctic, but can you describe the condition
2:18
sir? It's is in them where they'll
2:21
see, which is one of the most complicated see of the world,
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because there is a lot of highs see highs on this area, and they
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are quite unpredictable. And this is something which have
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been generated a lot of issue by the way.
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So which generate, the reason why this wreck was the most
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complicated to find not because she was really lost, but the
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access to the area is so, so, so complicated.
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So I have been in charge to lead all operation as soon as the
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vessel arrived on site and the trust asked to join cheers.
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The Expedition leader to lead above the surface and me to
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drive all operation Under the Sea.
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However, to run operation plan. I was obliged to control surface
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support as well. So it was including this so
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navigation, and the copter flight plan.
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I scam strategy and all of the Quest.
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I like science and major for example, because the media and
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education was quite important for this project, the project
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primary task. As I just mentioned, was to look
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at the endurance. But as the rack is protected by
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the Antarctic treaty, we have been forbidden to touch
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anything, so we needed to produce.
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I have a solution survey of the rack to allow science and
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archaeologists to produce science report.
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The project schedule for me started in February 20, 19.
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When the previous expedition in Los the auv, an autonomous
3:55
underwater vehicle own site. And I have been a immediately
4:00
contacted to bit new solution. So over two years has suggested
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some option and that finally convinced me to point as project
4:11
manager on August 20, So the first step has been to launch
4:17
the manufacturing of the subtools, the auv.
4:20
Yeah. Tell us more about the
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saber-tooth. Well this happens to us is the
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VAC or which is about to join 3,000 meters.
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It's an auv which is manufactured, by Sub in Sweden
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and the main reason why we choose that vehicle.
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It's because it's quite a Still one, it might be tasered or not.
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And usually this kind of vehicle is fully autonomous and flying
4:54
fully autonomous underwater. But for this project, we asked
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to use a Taser at one, because this is a lesson learned from
5:02
2019, which was to keep a permanent control and it
5:07
anticipate, emergency ascent and incident.
5:10
And that's really a game changer on the highs.
5:14
So you started work on this project three years ago, in the
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wake of a previous attempt to ReDiscover endurance.
5:24
So can you explain just give an overview of do three years, what
5:29
does that involve? So imagine I heard there were
5:31
trials in France for the technology like how much I
5:35
imagine 90% of that time was actually preparing.
5:39
Yeah. Itís been a lot a long way
5:43
because, um, I started to build the back on in September 20 and
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I led the manufacturing from scratch up to up to September
5:56
21. It, it was almost a year, but as
5:59
well in December 20, I started to build as well.
6:02
The high scam solution because it has tasked to be ready for
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any option compatible with any condition of ice.
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We are not sure of what kind of eyes we may face.
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So we were not sure that we may access to the area to the field
6:16
where the vessel so solution using ice Camp was ready.
6:21
Then spring, 21. I started to assembly all
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procedures to complete full scope of work because scope of
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work has to be ready for six months before the operation.
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It was ready for August 21. And in September 21, we started
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we started Yeah, the f80 if it is of the vehicle and the
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extended trials because we got so much better, so much sensors
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on the back, all that we ask at extended trials, then we came in
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France as you just mentioned and act about 21 to conductive sea
6:57
trials. The purpose of the deep sea
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trials was to send vehicle at the maximum depth that we would
7:06
have on the field and be ready to have anticipate any failure
7:11
that the vacuum has suffered. And finally we got ice ice
7:16
operation simulations in October 21 as well.
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We tried to deploy ice camp on honest entity guys.
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It has been quite fun and we as well deploy our launch and
7:33
Recovery ice launch and recovery system overall barge to look, if
7:37
we are able to launch the God because you have to keep in mind
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that to reduce time to drill the eyes, which might be up to 5 m
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sickness and make the decision to build a huge drill Holger
7:49
that we built from scratch as well and to reduce Time, Lord
7:53
willing, we make the decision to launch the vehicle vertically.
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So you have to imagine that we have a card which is the size
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and the weight of your own car and we got the and all
8:03
positives. What to move it up to two men,
8:06
two meters from the ground. Move it It vertically and launch
8:10
it through 5 m, i sickness. So all of these require a lot of
8:15
engineering and then we have to recover it and the opposite way,
8:18
if you see my point. So, finally make all these
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trials and we send all equipment in, in South Africa, in December
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21, mobilizing in January 22 in South Africa.
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In Cape Town and left, early, February 22.
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And lest had that covid-19 has been a real interference on this
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plan mainly on shipment and procurement which because Global
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shortage was everywhere. So it's generated so much so
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much interference too many where each each project must be so
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unique and so rare. And so complex that you have to
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come with an open mind that that can find Creative Solutions or
9:07
be inevitable. Or I guess you have to have that
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mindset that approach to work on a project like this.
9:16
Absolutely. And Angeles, 22 is a good
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example of that. I spent a year to build
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procedures scope of work. That's plan survey planning
9:26
deployment on nice helicopter. Flight plans time Computing
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schedules. And finally the reason why I
9:33
wasn't bored is because we were all open that.
9:39
Nothing will be run as expected the the condition, the unfilled,
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mental condition on site, are so complicated that you cannot
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anticipate all. All all scenarios.
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Even if you have many ideas or what you will suffer if I miss
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is that wall. Yeah, and you cannot anticipate
10:00
everything and it has been talking to reason why I have
10:02
been on board because usually on the substantive trees, a project
10:04
manager, stay on the office and you have a straight link with
10:08
what we call the Rapture manager and the offshore manager is just
10:14
make the make the work of shore here and the complexity of the
10:20
variables that we faced met obligations that I was on board.
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So as I like to say, I was walking with my option manager
10:29
which were on the next door, but as I like to say, I was still
10:35
Huli Huli the plan and it was run the plan.
10:38
Yeah. But so okay and when you I'm
10:44
interested because you must have had a team that reported to you,
10:48
how big was that team? Or was it just a couple of
10:51
people find you once 22? We were 1660.
10:57
Okay. See you leading a team of 16?
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How do you create a team around you?
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For this kind of project that is cohesive that can react to To
11:08
the unexpected. Is there any particular?
11:11
So I guess what I met trying to understand is how do you lead a
11:16
project team that has to be inevitable?
11:19
That has to think on its feet that has to deal with the
11:23
unexpected. The teams that I chosen was
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chosen for several reasons. The first one is their skills.
11:34
Of course, we got the requirement to have several
11:39
different skills for these people, but in editions, I walk
11:44
with the same kind of people since quite a long time almost
11:50
20 years. And the reason of that is that
11:54
because we have some Relationship, which is extremely
11:57
strong each other, and all these people, they are aware, and they
12:03
are and this is a normal way for them to work on this kind of
12:07
project where you have to be very, very close each other.
12:12
And the consequence of that is that most of these people are
12:16
like a family. And, and this is a culture which
12:19
is quite important for us. Because, usually again on the
12:23
subject, this tree also, So expertise really disconnected
12:28
from from each other. And people are other strong
12:31
task, very important task and they do not look at what the
12:34
hoses to on when you are doing project like this.
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This is the opposite. People have to be very strong
12:42
Connections in between each other and the leadership is
12:46
switching from a guy to the other according the expertise.
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But whatever is the walk. Everybody is walking by hands.
12:53
Okay, so that means that At your boss of the morning because you
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drive, you drive an auv, be can become your, your support on the
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afternoon because you do electronics.
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So, and this is with that way. Something that allowed me to
13:08
build a very, very strong, strong connection between
13:11
people. And even if our chain of command
13:15
is quite strong, the people have a lot of freedom inside the team
13:21
because they know that when we record the expertise they will
13:24
have three hands. So so that's pretty thing.
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A very very strong relationship. Okay.
13:32
Are you a trained project manager?
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Do you have project management? Qualifications, that's a good
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question and the answer is no, I thought I thought that might be.
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So have you how have you learnt the project management side of
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things? I started my career in the
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French company called Comics which at that time was the world
13:57
leader in the steps industry and most efficient in oil and gas
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and the culture of the end of the company was to look at each
14:07
people individually and purge them on their level of
14:10
expertise. Apparently, I got some leading
14:16
skills immediately, which have been detect and I have been
14:20
pushed on 29 and I followed the internal training in the company
14:24
to step after step. Okay?
14:27
And then the company has been absorbed by another group, and
14:30
the group became Higher, and Higher, and Higher and corn.
14:34
Now, sub c 7, which is one of the most important subsequent
14:38
director of the world. So you learn, you learn from the
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company and from the project and that it has been my path.
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And I must admit, I never follow any training and never follow
14:49
any. Educational for that.
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I have been always learning on my own project after project and
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what have you been your biggest lessons are from about project
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management, how to manage projects.
15:02
I think that most fishing on the project that I do, because which
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is, which are unusual. No special one, you have to keep
15:10
what, what is the final goal? And when you know what is the
15:14
final goal, you have to involve your team to this final goal and
15:18
you have to to drive them to have to keep in mind this final
15:24
goal and on their own level of expertise, which is all part of
15:28
the project and you must always keep in mind and always be
15:33
extremely versatile to absorb any, an expectation that you
15:39
have to manage to keep that goal.
15:42
I say you that because especially project can be quite
15:45
different. For example, I am consultant
15:48
from from the French investigation for any aircraft
15:54
incident in car deep water. Okay?
15:58
When you have this kind of jobs is extremely different than
16:02
searching the endurance or searching submarine for Navy's,
16:07
because my team phone as well, the Hassan one, Fans summer in
16:13
Me. Now from the French navy which
16:15
has been lost since 1968. And when you focus on this kind
16:20
of project, the expectation of the client for my sis with might
16:25
be quite different. So the to keep the goal is quite
16:28
important actually because you give us an idea of what it was
16:31
like to be on deck and and and how you what's it like to be in
16:35
a project team at such Close Quarters and under such
16:40
pressure. What's that noise?
16:42
Like as a project leader to manage.
16:44
And what are the? What are the challenges?
16:46
Advantage, when you walk with Rick on people, is that you knew
16:52
you knew them. They know you went as well as,
16:56
you know, each other. That's a low-wing to have
17:00
automatic balance that you do not have to manage, okay?
17:04
So, and when you are in difficult, constraint, as you
17:09
just mentioned, which is what that we live all together during
17:14
months and months, which is Is something normal for us because
17:19
we do that or all the year. But for underwent, 22, in
17:24
addition, we were on an icebreaker.
17:27
And we were on a product area which is quite unusual for us.
17:33
So we have been obliged to adapt herself to the other people.
17:37
For example, we got a lot of scientists on board, the vessel
17:41
how many people on the vessel the Expedition team was 65.
17:46
And the crew 45 also. 663 not 65 and subsea Department was 16 but
17:57
we got as well a full team of any copter pilot and technician.
18:03
We got a full science team which conducted additional science in
18:08
parallel of inseam ups with our operations and we got as well as
18:13
a full media team which make a lot of Things to build a
18:17
documentary, all of these have to have to be layer on top of
18:22
what we do usually. So here the challenge was to
18:26
manage your own usual activities with all these people for who is
18:31
not something normal. And, and it's from time to time
18:37
this is generated quite difference is because these
18:39
people, the come up short one or two times per year as the it, we
18:46
are offshore the full year so like the crew.
18:51
And so we have to adapt all ourselves to work together.
18:58
But the life on board is quite between each other.
19:01
It's quite something that we are ready for.
19:06
We run, watch of 12 hours on 12 hours of for example.
19:11
Okay? So the full team is organized to
19:13
work 12 hours per day on the Undone an entrance, 22.
19:19
Most of the guy made a huge over time, not because only we got
19:23
issues the first days, but because the loved what they do.
19:27
Okay, so even if we Face several equipment failure, even if we
19:33
have an incident, even if it's not working properly, even if
19:37
it's hard, even if they are cold, if you are able to work on
19:42
something, which is so much exciting attractive.
19:46
People respond on their own most specially if they like each
19:49
other. I'm not sure if it is replying
19:52
to the your initial question. No, this is all very interesting
19:56
because you will highly motivated.
19:58
I think actually the obvious question to ask is, when you
20:02
first found the wreck, what did can you talk us through?
20:07
What it was like to actually to see it and was it what you
20:11
imagined or what did it feel like we're searching the
20:16
DirectBuy, side-scan sonar. It's a device which looking at
20:21
the seabed by an acoustic purse, each side, each side of the
20:25
vehicle. So it's reproducing.
20:29
A cbet imagery which is equal for this project at almost two
20:35
mice, a Channel of almost 1, nautical miles.
20:39
And on this images you can recognize rocks, sand mud,
20:46
Right. So it's quite detailed.
20:48
Yeah. And you need very, very skilled
20:51
people to, to analyze images because this is It's.
20:56
So now imagine it's not video. Let me explain its like if
20:59
you're flying on an aircraft on the, on the desert, okay?
21:04
And with the the sun which coming down, you can find what
21:08
is high of the of the dunes, thanks to the length of the
21:12
Shadow. Okay?
21:14
That's exactly the same that except that we Do not using
21:17
light, but, but Acoustics. So it's with shadows and legs of
21:20
Shadows. That you may say, if you are
21:23
find a wreck or rock or something else here on entrance
21:27
22, the first heat give it gave us a lot of Joy's many as
21:33
because it was so close to the captain Worsley put initial
21:37
position but finally it was a new debris and not the full ship
21:44
full vessel on the Last two. Everybody was extremely excited
21:49
the but unfortunately it was a deception because just the a
21:53
breeze on the rag. So when we found the wreck on
21:55
the second heat, I pressurize the team to stay very concerned,
22:00
right? Very professional and very
22:02
quiet. So I said to them, I want
22:07
everybody to some quiet. Until we have not only a sauna
22:10
heat, but visual confirmation on the video camera because you
22:15
have to fly with the vehicle. All come back, make a
22:17
circumcision, a hint in sana'a, resolution.
22:20
And then, finally, come back with to fly on it for the video
22:26
shorting. So we got at least two hours
22:30
between the 1st and a heat and the video confirmation Cinema,
22:34
spend slice two hours of your life.
22:36
Probably, I was absolutely. But the guys, the guys was
22:41
absolutely sure. Yeah.
22:43
I got a son, an analyst on my side And this sauna analyst is
22:48
maybe one of the top five in the world in sana'a analyzing and I
22:53
was looking in his eyes and he smiled.
22:56
So I was quite sure, but when we got the first video shooting
23:03
footage, it was an accomplishment in the and great
23:07
relief and believe me, we saw the wreck, maybe 22 seconds and
23:12
I said, okay go up. And then but the reason why is
23:17
that we were pushing the batteries, I was asking how UV
23:22
saboteurs pie that I want to see the with the camera I want to
23:25
end. It was already saying I'm low
23:27
batteries, I'm low batteries, I'm low batteries.
23:30
So the first first footage was very, very short.
23:35
But it was absolutely absolutely amazing how into the wreck.
23:40
Could you go, could you just see in terms of the video, just the
23:44
outside, or could you go right into the wreck?
23:48
Find you a nice, 22, our package of payload including cameras was
23:54
not allowing to look inside. However, we got four kids, still
23:59
camera geography and said, which will hollowing to produce.
24:05
Absolutely wonderful. As 3D model like a
24:09
photogrametry. In addition we got laser leader
24:13
which will allow us to have photogrammetry, which we have
24:16
one millimeter resolution, but to going inside the rack, we
24:22
will need to come back with extra devising.
24:24
It's a, is that a plan? Can you do that?
24:26
Is that something that might happen?
24:28
Well, plenty people asking me the question already and my
24:33
answer is yes, I have Plan. So I try to always have a plan
24:39
you know because that's that's a purpose and to come back on
24:44
project management and Isis is when you face difficulties, you
24:48
have in your brain to have already two or three plants when
24:52
we fall for the next issue. I personally would have been the
24:57
highs and the lows. So I guess by Lowe's I mean the
25:02
probably maybe the most stressful times or the hardest
25:05
times of working on endurance. 22 eyes, of course, the
25:11
discovery lows as a very long list of you.
25:14
An extra fiver you could do a part two.
25:17
Yes it's days. Was a stressful time.
25:23
Okay. You have to keep in mind that
25:26
the previous team lost the vacuole after two, Dives.
25:30
Okay, so my goal was not only to find engines but to come back
25:34
with my vehicle. Okay, we got a team agencia,
25:38
sent over 32 Dives but seeing the vehicle back on Deck.
25:43
After last last dive with full scope accomplished, has been an
25:49
extremely good time, believe me. It has been Most most I stand
25:56
for me because it was an achievement.
25:59
We made it. Okay, and we made it without
26:02
failure. So for me, frankly, the
26:06
discovery is I point, but complete job with everything on
26:12
board without any incident and with all people in good in good
26:17
health has been very good as well and more specially because
26:20
with, they faced the worst condition the Worst condition.
26:25
You have to imagine that we got - 22 with 35 knots of wind,
26:30
which is equivalent of minus 40 degrees.
26:33
The equipment was freezing on Deck, the people was absolutely
26:37
freezing on day. They never say nothing.
26:40
They they accomplished a huge great work.
26:45
And I am very proud about them and you must imagine that was so
26:51
cold. General so much issue that we
26:54
call Guys from the highest camp and they help us to build tent
26:58
on vessel back deck with with eater with eater on it to keep
27:04
our equipment. Warm enough to die.
27:08
For so why then was freezing and we got bigger issues, and we
27:13
spending time to repair before dive.
27:16
It has been extremely complicated.
27:18
So the the people achievement is huge.
27:24
What? What have been the lessons that
27:26
you've learned from this mission that you will then apply to
27:30
other other projects that you work on.
27:36
Against a nice, a lot of listeners.
27:38
The main reason is that it has been a world record.
27:42
The seabed survey over fixed location under under drifting
27:47
highs is a world record. We invent almost everything from
27:52
scratch. So the listen earn over polar
27:55
environment is a huge list, huge one, and nobody made that before
28:01
you have to keep in mind that until now people doing a UV on
28:04
The highs was launching an opponent, okay?
28:07
And got a recovery Point already, prepare its and that's
28:13
the reason why the Canadian people are what we call on this.
28:17
But on our side we were launching on the position, which
28:22
is optimized to cover a fixed location and then we drift with
28:26
ice. So, the recovery point was
28:29
unknown, we're not able to anticipate where we will recover
28:33
the vehicle and Time to time. We are up 24, nautical miles
28:37
from the launch point and all of this to make it worked as been
28:42
invent. And the listen learn from this
28:45
is absolutely huge. And the consequence is on,
28:49
listen on the project management is as well.
28:51
Extremely huge affair with one project management lesson that
28:57
you would want to share what that was because you've been
29:00
doing this for 30 years. And still, you're learning,
29:02
still you're learning about how to run, On projects like this
29:05
manage lead is. So is there one lesson in
29:07
particular Springs to mind? I need to remember the warning
29:13
set by. So let's check it in himself.
29:17
He said and difficulties are just things to overcome after
29:23
all. Have you ever met a challenge
29:26
that? Just he thought this is.
29:28
I can't, I just just no way around this.
29:32
I think 122, as soon as we arrived a nice, I was sure that
29:37
helicopter on the primeknit was impossible and I spent a lot of
29:41
time and work on this and, but as soon as we the Icebreaker
29:46
start to arrived on ice and stood straight away, that
29:50
helicopter deployment was too much Complicated by the reason
29:54
that the environmental condition was not allowing the volume of
29:59
flight that I expected to Carly Camp so that must have been a
30:04
big blow. Well, I keep fingers crossed
30:07
that the condition will allow us to join the field with a vest
30:12
on. And and I came immediately to
30:15
the, to the conclusion that even if we spent a lot of time
30:20
procedures than and and money to be ready to deploy from highs
30:26
deploying, from my students covers, younger ones would be
30:29
almost impossible by lack of time.
30:32
I'm because to install a camp, you have to understand that the
30:37
vehicle weight. Only the vehicle weight is one
30:41
point seven tons, okay? And the, and the initial maximum
30:45
capabilities of a cargo Flight of the a copter was 1.5 tons.
30:50
So I was obliged to install nice.
30:52
Certain ton of equipments to manage this vehicle, plus the
30:56
people, plus the safety, plus the consumable, and when you,
31:00
you had hold of this The five plan was so much complicated
31:05
that aircraft was on here, almost 24 hours seven and when
31:10
we arrive on site, the first thing that the pilot said that,
31:14
sorry guys, but I would maybe fly three to seven hours per day
31:20
maximum. So, this this has been a
31:23
disappointment because it was too complicated.
31:26
So, did you have a plan B for that?
31:28
Or did, how did you then sort resolve this?
31:31
Because that That's a big part of the plan, that's now out the
31:35
window. We optimized the ship ads plasma
31:40
or nice And it has been quite. It has been quite a success and
31:49
we anticipated to have a team from Germany from the company.
31:54
Driftin noise, which came on board with satellite radar
31:58
images and and I stood forecast, okay?
32:04
And this data has been the real game changer which are allowing
32:09
us to be extremely efficient on the ship movement.
32:14
And we work very, very close with the Germans guys and and
32:19
the ship ice Pilot. We for one of the first time of
32:23
his career, got access to this very accurate data and it's
32:29
allowing us to optimize the ship movement, to be, always where we
32:33
need to be and how to go to the next point.
32:38
And that is something which is quite important to explain.
32:41
Nice condition. If you want to go to on point A
32:44
to point B, you can have a straight line on Ice.
32:48
You have to find a channel between sea ice, which might be
32:52
quite deep which which is best route to arrive where you need
32:57
to go. So it has been extremely,
33:01
extremely successful and Ice condition plus.
33:05
All this works, which have been in placed over the project
33:09
management as the lowing of the Very, very good efficiency.
33:13
What a fantastic way to end the podcast.
33:16
I want to thank you again for your time and congratulations on
33:19
the success of the project. Thank you so much for your time.
33:23
Thank you so much. Thanks again to Nicole for
33:29
joining us and to you for listening to this episode of the
33:32
APM podcast. Don't forget to look out for
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