Latest / The You Project / #1524 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder - Nikki Morrison

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#1524 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder - Nikki Morrison · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a team. It's up. It's it's Nicole Morrison,
0:04
Speaker 1: It's Tiffany and Cook, it's us, it's you. It's the
0:06
Speaker 1: fucking new Project for the fifteen hundred and thirtieth time,
0:10
Speaker 1: or something like that. Tippany an Cook over there with
0:13
Speaker 1: the wrong promo behind her, as is always the way,
0:17
Speaker 1: not representing the U Project at all, but some opposition podcast.
0:22
Speaker 1: I will not even mention the name of Hi Tiv.
0:27
Speaker 2: I'll be sure to snip out a visual promo from
0:29
Speaker 2: this one then, if I've decked it out the right way. Really,
0:33
Speaker 2: will you make hay while the sun shines?
0:36
Speaker 1: Will you? I see what you're doing there using my
0:39
Speaker 1: show to promote your show, Like, oh my god, did
0:43
Speaker 1: I leave that up?
0:45
Speaker 3: That happened? Oh?
0:47
Speaker 1: How did that exactly? Nicole? You know what she's up to.
0:51
Speaker 1: There's a bit of subterfuge. I'm not even sure what
0:54
Speaker 1: that means, but I think it's I don't know, Tiv,
1:00
Speaker 1: what's going on over there at you Central.
1:02
Speaker 2: Oh it's been a busy old time. I feel like
1:04
Speaker 2: I haven't seen you for so long already. I feel
1:07
Speaker 2: like it's been days and days.
1:10
Speaker 1: Well, you and I normally do three and sometimes four
1:12
Speaker 1: podcasts a week. As we record this, it's it's heading
1:16
Speaker 1: towards three pm on Wednesday, avough, and we've done fuck
1:21
Speaker 1: all in the industry in one another. No, no, well,
1:26
Speaker 1: here we are to remedy that. Nicole Nikki Morrison.
1:31
Speaker 3: Hi h here you going?
1:33
Speaker 1: I'm well, very good. That's beautiful audio you've got there.
1:36
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. Now it's two thirty nine. As I said,
1:39
Speaker 1: I think I rang you at about two twenty three,
1:41
Speaker 1: which would be yeah, sixteen sixteen minutes ago, and I said,
1:45
Speaker 1: do you can't do a podcast? And you went, oh
1:49
Speaker 1: sure when? And I went about now? Then you went,
1:53
Speaker 1: oh right.
1:54
Speaker 3: Okay, then I'm going to get a call at this
1:58
Speaker 3: time okay, and I wait for it.
2:02
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah. What he's not ringing because he loves me,
2:07
Speaker 1: He's ring because he wants something. Yes, yeah, that's my
2:11
Speaker 1: way at least. I'm as long as you're transfer.
2:13
Speaker 3: Straight about it, exactly exactly.
2:19
Speaker 1: So a month or two ago you and I were
2:23
Speaker 1: chatting about a condition. Do we call it a condition?
2:29
Speaker 3: Yeah?
2:31
Speaker 1: So we call it a condition that I've never heard of,
2:33
Speaker 1: which that doesn't mean much, but for a bloke I
2:36
Speaker 1: probably know a fair bit about women's physiology and medical
2:40
Speaker 1: conditions and biology, because I spent the best part of
2:45
Speaker 1: forty years training more women than I did men, including
2:48
Speaker 1: elite athletes, more women than men, and a lot of
2:51
Speaker 1: the general public. Huge amount of my work was with
2:55
Speaker 1: the general public, and as I said to you before,
2:57
Speaker 1: you know, dealing with you know, or working with women
3:00
Speaker 1: who were going through menopause, perimenopause and you know, younger
3:04
Speaker 1: women and women with eating disorders who are a meno
3:07
Speaker 1: reea because did I say that correctly, who don't have
3:11
Speaker 1: their period, and women who suffer from postpartum depression and
3:15
Speaker 1: all of those things that you know, women have to
3:19
Speaker 1: deal with and navigate at various stages of their kind
3:23
Speaker 1: of journey. And so it was a steep learning curve
3:27
Speaker 1: for me over the years, especially when I was in
3:29
Speaker 1: my twenties and was even more of an idiot than
3:33
Speaker 1: I am now and trying to you know, that's one
3:36
Speaker 1: of the really interesting things as a young trainer, working
3:39
Speaker 1: with people with issues that you're never going to have
3:42
Speaker 1: right and trying to understand that and then support them
3:46
Speaker 1: through that. But anyway, one day you were feeling shit,
3:50
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, and we were chatting, and
3:53
Speaker 1: you told me that you have that you suffer from
3:56
Speaker 1: a thing called pre menstrual dysphoric disorder. Did I get
4:02
Speaker 1: that right?
4:03
Speaker 3: Yeah? You did?
4:04
Speaker 1: You ever heard of that? Tiff night?
4:07
Speaker 3: Yeah? Many ends?
4:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. So let's let's start with the obvious.
4:13
Speaker 1: What is it?
4:15
Speaker 3: Okay? So a lot of women suffer from pre minstu
4:20
Speaker 3: symptoms prior to their menstrual cycle kicking in. And that
4:25
Speaker 3: can be anything from having certain food cravings. So then
4:29
Speaker 3: bit tied, feling bit luck, whatever the case may be.
4:34
Speaker 3: Premnstr dysphoric disorder is all of that on steroids.
4:41
Speaker 1: Wow.
4:43
Speaker 3: And it lasts. It sort of kicks in about a
4:47
Speaker 3: few days before your cycle is meant to kick in,
4:49
Speaker 3: and then it lasts several days after the cycle ends.
4:53
Speaker 3: So it kind of feels like you might feel normal
4:57
Speaker 3: for two weeks out of every four weeks.
5:01
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, And so sometimes half of your life you're
5:07
Speaker 1: kind of dealing with this.
5:09
Speaker 3: Oh gotcha? Absolutely?
5:12
Speaker 1: Wow.
5:12
Speaker 3: And that's and for me, as I've gotten older, the
5:17
Speaker 3: symptoms got more intense in terms of for me, it
5:20
Speaker 3: was migraines, nausea, just incredible helvic pain, and just anxiety, depression, moods.
5:33
Speaker 3: It was like I became a different person and then
5:37
Speaker 3: it had stopped, and I sort of look back and go,
5:40
Speaker 3: what the hell was that? What just happened there? Because
5:43
Speaker 3: I didn't know what was happening, I didn't think to
5:45
Speaker 3: connect the dots as I just went through that for years,
5:51
Speaker 3: and I learned about premature dysphoric disorder purely by chance
5:57
Speaker 3: when I was talking to a girl who's actually a
6:00
Speaker 3: patient that I was caring for at the time, and
6:04
Speaker 3: she was starting to explain some of the symptoms that
6:07
Speaker 3: she had and I'm like, yeah, I kind of get
6:09
Speaker 3: that too, and she's like, Nikki, it's a real thing.
6:12
Speaker 3: I'm like, what do you mean. I thought it was
6:15
Speaker 3: just me just being me and me just having to
6:17
Speaker 3: deal with it. She's like, no, it's an actual condition
6:21
Speaker 3: called pre minster hisphoric disorder. I belonged to a research
6:24
Speaker 3: group about it. I belonged to a support group about it.
6:29
Speaker 3: It's starting to get more traction in terms of being
6:34
Speaker 3: known in Australia and in terms of psychologists starting to
6:40
Speaker 3: do more research into it and how to treat it
6:42
Speaker 3: and manage it. And that's where I started to learn
6:47
Speaker 3: about it. But prior to that. I've just been trying
6:50
Speaker 3: to survive.
6:52
Speaker 2: Really, I have a confession I have. I was familiar
6:56
Speaker 2: with PMDDY. I just was googling, went oh, this is
7:00
Speaker 2: the yes, so I actually am't familiar with it.
7:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and look, there's a whole range of symptoms
7:07
Speaker 3: that A lists and you know, everyone's going to have
7:11
Speaker 3: their own experience of that, and you won't necessarily have
7:16
Speaker 3: all of the symptoms. I had like a handful of them,
7:20
Speaker 3: and others will have different ones. But it's thanks acutally well.
7:27
Speaker 3: In my experience, it took over my life and was
7:32
Speaker 3: exhausting to the point where I thought something that had
7:36
Speaker 3: changed one wow. You know.
7:39
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is before we progress, everyone, NICKI
7:43
Speaker 1: was worried. Before we not worried, but just concerned that
7:47
Speaker 1: this would be confused with medical advice. This is not
7:51
Speaker 1: medical advice, This is not a recommendation. This is just
7:56
Speaker 1: this is really an education for me and maybe for
7:59
Speaker 1: some of you around something yeah, and trying to open
8:05
Speaker 1: the door on awareness and understanding and you know, maybe
8:09
Speaker 1: we can push the needle a little bit on something
8:12
Speaker 1: in their space, which is what I want to do.
8:16
Speaker 1: But you know what's ironic is so you've been a
8:19
Speaker 1: nurse for a long time and you're a high level nurse,
8:21
Speaker 1: you're very qualified, and you also you're a death dueler,
8:26
Speaker 1: and you do you work with people at the end
8:28
Speaker 1: stage of life, and you work with cancer patients and
8:32
Speaker 1: you do a lot of amazing But you had a
8:34
Speaker 1: patient teach you about.
8:37
Speaker 3: I know, it was literally were she was about coming
8:43
Speaker 3: to the clinic, and I went out to the waiting
8:45
Speaker 3: room just to have a chat with her before she
8:47
Speaker 3: came in to see the consultants. And you know, we've
8:51
Speaker 3: become good friends along the way, and yeah, she was
8:55
Speaker 3: just telling me about some of the things that she'd
8:57
Speaker 3: been experiencing and just surely happened by chance. And it
9:02
Speaker 3: was like, oh my gosh, maybe it's not just me.
9:08
Speaker 3: Maybe this isn't all in my head. Maybe this isn't
9:13
Speaker 3: me just being weird. Maybe this is an actual thing.
9:17
Speaker 3: And from that day on, I just felt relief.
9:22
Speaker 1: Tell us about your experience, Nikki, up until that point
9:25
Speaker 1: in time, because I mean, we had this chat months ago,
9:29
Speaker 1: but I feel like you told me that basically, some people, Yeah,
9:35
Speaker 1: some experts in inverted commas that you've been see have
9:38
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, you know, jog it out,
9:42
Speaker 1: it's in your mind, or it's like you're overreacting. All
9:45
Speaker 1: women go through this like chill out and stop being
9:49
Speaker 1: a big baby kind of.
9:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, when it was getting really bad, sort of into
9:55
Speaker 3: my mid to late thirties, I was really starting to look,
10:00
Speaker 3: look at this is taking over my life. I can't
10:04
Speaker 3: function like this anymore. So I started to you know,
10:09
Speaker 3: I speak to different endocrinologists and different medical medical professionals
10:13
Speaker 3: in sort of the gynecology area, and often, don't get
10:21
Speaker 3: me wrong, somewhere wonderful. But I had to get through
10:26
Speaker 3: a lot of hoops before I found people who would
10:28
Speaker 3: believe me and support me and provide me with the
10:35
Speaker 3: management that I needed to.
10:38
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Tell us about the hoops that
10:40
Speaker 1: you had to get through. Can you give us? Is
10:43
Speaker 1: it just just that they didn't believe you?
10:46
Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember clearly sitting in one GP's office and
10:54
Speaker 3: I was practically in tears in front of us, saying,
10:58
Speaker 3: this is my life. I'm not functioning. I'm going to
11:01
Speaker 3: have a breakdown if it's something doesn't happen, And she
11:04
Speaker 3: just said, you're thinking about it too much, and I
11:10
Speaker 3: was like, right, so that occasions like that were really
11:17
Speaker 3: demoralizing and disheartening, but also just I admitted, you know,
11:25
Speaker 3: stand up for myself because as a nurse I've encouraged
11:29
Speaker 3: patients to be their own advocate and to have their
11:32
Speaker 3: own voice. And I thought, I've got to do this
11:34
Speaker 3: for me now and and not give up, and not
11:39
Speaker 3: give up. And thankfully, you know, going through a lot
11:44
Speaker 3: of different specialists and trying so many different medications and
11:50
Speaker 3: that often made me worse, but you know, that was
11:55
Speaker 3: all part of the experience and in terms of trial
11:58
Speaker 3: and errorfying it find out what I actually needed to
12:03
Speaker 3: deal with my particular case. Yeah, it's been a long
12:08
Speaker 3: journey than many years, but thankfully in the end I
12:14
Speaker 3: met with specialists who were compassionate and listened to me
12:20
Speaker 3: and understanding and believed me and took me seriously.
12:29
Speaker 1: So where did you start?
12:32
Speaker 3: Like what?
12:33
Speaker 1: So finally somebody listened and I mean, are there I
12:36
Speaker 1: guess there is, but are there people who specialize in
12:41
Speaker 1: this or you know, in all this is within their
12:44
Speaker 1: speciality where they deal with this, and they went did
12:47
Speaker 1: somebody go, no, Nicole, this is absolutely real and you're
12:52
Speaker 1: not crazy, And yeah, right, tell us a bit about
12:55
Speaker 1: that that person and that process.
13:00
Speaker 3: My friend who first told me about PMTD told me
13:05
Speaker 3: about a research group that she was involved with, and
13:09
Speaker 3: I subsequently contacted them myself because I didn't know where
13:15
Speaker 3: to go, and I thought, Okay, I'm just going to
13:18
Speaker 3: do this and see what happens. Anyway, the head of
13:22
Speaker 3: that service, who's quite a u pushed psychiatrist, actually rang
13:31
Speaker 3: me herself and spoke to me on the phone and
13:34
Speaker 3: listened to me and listened to my symptoms and I said,
13:38
Speaker 3: does that sound a bit like what I think you're
13:42
Speaker 3: talking about? And she's like yes, And I said, trouble.
13:48
Speaker 3: I can't live like this anymore. It is horrible. You're
13:51
Speaker 3: not making it up. And I'm go and speak to us.
13:56
Speaker 3: And that was I think. I don't know. I probably
13:59
Speaker 3: did cry on the phone because I was just so
14:00
Speaker 3: exhausted by that point. Just to have someone believe me,
14:05
Speaker 3: to have a professional believe me and validate me and
14:10
Speaker 3: acknowledge what I was saying and not dismiss it as
14:13
Speaker 3: I'm overreacting or I'm building it up in my head.
14:18
Speaker 3: That was that really started to change the course of
14:22
Speaker 3: how I started to deal with it.
14:26
Speaker 1: It's it's like there's there's two like there's two issues,
14:30
Speaker 1: parallel issues. One is the physical pain and then the
14:35
Speaker 1: other is the psychological anguish of people going it's not real,
14:40
Speaker 1: nik exactly, thinking you're thinking too much, Nikki. Yeah, I
14:45
Speaker 1: mean that must have complicated and compounded the issue.
14:49
Speaker 3: Oh god, Yeah, I was. I was a mess. I was,
14:54
Speaker 3: and I'm not trying to be dramatic about it, but
14:57
Speaker 3: I was so stressed physical and mentally emotionally, just from
15:03
Speaker 3: trying to find someone who would believe me and would
15:06
Speaker 3: try and help me navigate this maze that I felt
15:08
Speaker 3: I was locked into. Yeah. It literally felt like something's
15:14
Speaker 3: going to give sooner. I'm going to Leprescen.
15:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, could you I know this is probably hard to do,
15:22
Speaker 1: but for me, the dude who never has to deal
15:24
Speaker 1: with stuff like that, obviously, but could you try to
15:29
Speaker 1: help me understand and maybe some of the other men
15:34
Speaker 1: who are listening to this and some of the women
15:36
Speaker 1: who were unfamiliar with it, and maybe who have sailed
15:39
Speaker 1: through I don't know, but those of us who don't
15:42
Speaker 1: get it, try to give me an insight into the
15:45
Speaker 1: physical reality, Like what like if you got it, like
15:50
Speaker 1: a like a level seven out of ten gut ache.
15:53
Speaker 1: Is it like excruciating acute adominal pain?
15:57
Speaker 3: Is it?
15:58
Speaker 1: What is it?
15:59
Speaker 3: It's like everyone's going to be different. Obviously for me,
16:06
Speaker 3: I would just get like a head fog that would
16:09
Speaker 3: sort of develop into migrain nausea that was so intense
16:13
Speaker 3: that I just I couldn't move, you know, or otherwise
16:18
Speaker 3: I just haven't had in the toilet bowl because I
16:20
Speaker 3: just couldn't go anywhere else, and burning pain for me
16:27
Speaker 3: in my back, and you know, as it kind of
16:31
Speaker 3: got worse and worse, just it was like I'd been
16:34
Speaker 3: hit by a bus and I just have to literally
16:38
Speaker 3: I would have to sleep off a couple of just
16:40
Speaker 3: lose a couple of days in sleep because I couldn't
16:42
Speaker 3: deal with it any other way.
16:43
Speaker 1: And that must be hard for you because you're the
16:47
Speaker 1: least lazy person. I know.
16:49
Speaker 3: It was so stressful because you know, I was trying
16:56
Speaker 3: to hold down my job, which was being different were
17:00
Speaker 3: more difficult to do because I couldn't show up because
17:03
Speaker 3: I was so affected, and that psychologically that was playing
17:10
Speaker 3: on me too, and just yeah, I just have to
17:15
Speaker 3: sort of step off the world for a few days
17:17
Speaker 3: just to try and cope with it.
17:21
Speaker 1: If have you had anything in the ballpark? Feel free
17:24
Speaker 1: to not answer anything. I don't know if I'm allowed to,
17:27
Speaker 1: but feel free to tell me to you know, I'm like, fuck,
17:30
Speaker 1: where do I which doors can I open? I'm in
17:33
Speaker 1: this conversation. But does any of this resonate for you
17:36
Speaker 1: or what are your thoughts around this?
17:38
Speaker 2: When I was a teenager, I had quite a turbulent
17:41
Speaker 2: time with my hormones and a I've got monthly migraines
17:45
Speaker 2: in the lead up to starting to have a cycle.
17:49
Speaker 2: And when I went on the contraceptive pill as a
17:54
Speaker 2: teen I had a lot of mood issues in finding
17:57
Speaker 2: the right pill, and that was feedback from Mum. She's like,
18:00
Speaker 2: you're a little bit like you have to go and
18:02
Speaker 2: get that change. So there was a yeah, yeah, And
18:07
Speaker 2: I get a lot of I'm a sugar head a
18:10
Speaker 2: couple of days before I crave sugar big time the
18:13
Speaker 2: day the day before my cycle starts. And maybe if
18:18
Speaker 2: I tracked moods and symptoms and watched them a little
18:21
Speaker 2: more carefully, I would probably see more. But nothing that's
18:24
Speaker 2: stabilitating like what Nicky experiences. But I do know people
18:28
Speaker 2: that are and just.
18:31
Speaker 3: On the mood stuff I'm a fairly steady, calm person generally,
18:37
Speaker 3: but when all those symptoms were ramping up, I was
18:44
Speaker 3: looking to have a fight with someone or I was
18:47
Speaker 3: so depressed that I just was it was a struggle
18:50
Speaker 3: for me to get out my front door.
18:53
Speaker 1: Because also, also you live by yourself. I mean there's
19:00
Speaker 1: not like there's someone else in the night that can
19:03
Speaker 1: bring you a glass of water or just check in
19:05
Speaker 1: on you, or sit on your bed and hold your
19:08
Speaker 1: hand and have a chat. That must have made it worse, right, yes.
19:13
Speaker 3: Because I just sort of isolated, because I just so
19:19
Speaker 3: stuck in it, and I just kept on sort of
19:22
Speaker 3: getting deeper down the rabbit hole. And it got to
19:26
Speaker 3: the point where I said to my mum, Okay, Mom,
19:31
Speaker 3: I'm going to text you every morning just to let
19:33
Speaker 3: you know that I've gotten to work today, because it
19:37
Speaker 3: was so it was a battle to get out of
19:39
Speaker 3: the door sometimes and if I could text her to
19:44
Speaker 3: say I got to work, then I was like, good,
19:46
Speaker 3: she's out the house. She's made to get herself together
19:48
Speaker 3: and get herself off to work. That was when it
19:53
Speaker 3: was really bad, and when I wasn't getting any making
19:56
Speaker 3: any headway in getting treatment, so that that was that
20:05
Speaker 3: was pretty massive, and I think that put you know,
20:08
Speaker 3: bless my mum. She has just been an absolute rock
20:11
Speaker 3: and an angel. But yeah, there was a point where
20:15
Speaker 3: I had to move back in with my parents because
20:17
Speaker 3: I couldn't handle living by myself anymore. I feel, say
20:22
Speaker 3: by myself.
20:23
Speaker 1: Wow. So I'm going to ask you a hard question,
20:27
Speaker 1: which you are welcome to decline. Sure, but you've spoken
20:32
Speaker 1: very openly about you know, we've both spoken about eating disorders,
20:37
Speaker 1: disordered eating body dysmorphia, and some of the weird and
20:40
Speaker 1: wonderful and borderline crazy shit that both you and I
20:44
Speaker 1: have done with food, with exercise, with obsessive, compulsive, addictive behaviors.
20:52
Speaker 1: Do you think that any of the stuff that you
20:56
Speaker 1: did as a kid and as a young adult brought
21:01
Speaker 1: this on, impacted this, intersected with this, or do you
21:05
Speaker 1: think it's it's completely genetic.
21:09
Speaker 3: I've asked myself that so many times, and I've had
21:16
Speaker 3: to work through a lot of guilt and shame about
21:19
Speaker 3: all of that, because I thought, have I caused this
21:24
Speaker 3: well to the point where the managements that I had
21:30
Speaker 3: to have surgically changed my life. So I don't know.
21:41
Speaker 3: I can't answer that definitively part of me has you know,
21:47
Speaker 3: just really beat that horse to the nth degree. And
21:51
Speaker 3: I thought, Nikki, you just can't keep going down.
21:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean for me, it was more out
21:58
Speaker 1: of curiosity because trying to figure out you know, maybe
22:02
Speaker 1: I don't know, like in science, were always like, what's
22:06
Speaker 1: the mechanism? How does this thing work? Did I do?
22:11
Speaker 1: Did I do something or not do something? And and
22:13
Speaker 1: for me, it's definitely not about blame or self loathing,
22:18
Speaker 1: just understanding and awareness, you know.
22:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe halps, I don't know. I just sort
22:27
Speaker 3: of thought, look, nick, maybe contributed, maybe it didn't. You
22:32
Speaker 3: can't know that. You can't change that, so you just
22:35
Speaker 3: got to get on with it. Yeah.
22:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mentioned, well you mentioned a treatment that
22:47
Speaker 1: changed your life in some way. Can can you talk
22:50
Speaker 1: to us about that?
22:52
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I'm in my mid forties and I had
23:00
Speaker 3: when I was getting serious about looking at what are
23:04
Speaker 3: some viable treatment options for this condition? I kept on
23:10
Speaker 3: coming across surgery, and the surgery that I was looking
23:15
Speaker 3: at would be removing the uterus and the ovaries, so
23:19
Speaker 3: basically removing my reproductive system. And given I was about
23:26
Speaker 3: forty one or forty two. At the time when I
23:29
Speaker 3: was looking at that, a lot of practitioners were very
23:34
Speaker 3: reluctant to agree for me to have that surgery because
23:40
Speaker 3: they thought, you're too young and it's too drastic. But thankfully,
23:46
Speaker 3: in the end, I met with an endochronologist who just
23:53
Speaker 3: worked with me and collaborated with me and believed and
23:57
Speaker 3: saw what I was going through, and she referred me
24:01
Speaker 3: to a surgeon, and all along the way it was
24:06
Speaker 3: made very clear to me, You've got to be aware
24:08
Speaker 3: that this is a life changing decision that you're making.
24:11
Speaker 3: You know the consequences. Take your time to make the decision,
24:16
Speaker 3: because it would mean I can't have children. So after
24:24
Speaker 3: a lot of thought and just not being able to
24:30
Speaker 3: live that way anymore, the only option I did have
24:33
Speaker 3: left to me was to have the surgery.
24:37
Speaker 1: And is that a common treatment path, Nikki?
24:44
Speaker 3: It can be. There are other options, certainly in terms
24:50
Speaker 3: of different medications to help you manage the symptoms, different
24:54
Speaker 3: lifestyle behavioral modifications that you can make. Oh, I was
25:00
Speaker 3: doing all of that and I was not getting any better.
25:05
Speaker 3: It was I was just like keeping my hand above order.
25:11
Speaker 3: So at the end, in the end, it felt like
25:13
Speaker 3: for me, it was the only choice that was available
25:16
Speaker 3: to me.
25:19
Speaker 1: And now I'm going to ask you a weird It's
25:21
Speaker 1: not weird between you and me because we know each
25:24
Speaker 1: other well, but it might be a weird question in
25:26
Speaker 1: the context of where we've been so far. But I
25:31
Speaker 1: know that you're a very spiritual person, and that you know,
25:36
Speaker 1: you're probably more heart driven, soul driven, spirit driven for
25:41
Speaker 1: one of a better term, than you are brain driven
25:44
Speaker 1: in your life. Is that an accurate comment? Yeah, yeah,
25:50
Speaker 1: which is not to say that you're not smart and
25:51
Speaker 1: don't use of course, I mean you've got multiple degrees.
25:55
Speaker 1: You're highly intelligent, But so did you. I know that
26:01
Speaker 1: you always kind of tune in, you know, like to
26:04
Speaker 1: the universe, to God, to the trees, to mother Earth
26:06
Speaker 1: to you know, you're always when I talk to you,
26:09
Speaker 1: you're like, you're always tuning into something. Yes, thankfully, thankfully
26:14
Speaker 1: it's not fucking Instagram, right, So to I'm glad you're going.
26:20
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're go into a better source than most
26:22
Speaker 1: of us. Did you do that? Did you pray? Did
26:27
Speaker 1: you meditate? Did you seek? Did you and what kind
26:30
Speaker 1: of happened in that?
26:33
Speaker 3: Oh? Gosh, yes, I prayed, I meditated, if we said,
26:44
Speaker 3: what do I do if I don't have the surgery?
26:46
Speaker 3: If it's not the right thing for me to have
26:48
Speaker 3: the surgery, then I won't have it. Then how am
26:51
Speaker 3: I going to function? How am I going to show
26:53
Speaker 3: up in life? How am I going to contribute to
26:57
Speaker 3: life the way I want to contribute? Because I can't
27:00
Speaker 3: survive this. I don't see it well. I mean I
27:04
Speaker 3: couldn't see the time how I could survive it otherwise
27:08
Speaker 3: in terms of being able to continue to work and
27:11
Speaker 3: function and show up as the person wanted to be
27:14
Speaker 3: in my life and in my family, and and you know,
27:19
Speaker 3: just for myself as well. I was losing myself.
27:23
Speaker 1: So when you're asking these questions, right, and you're in
27:26
Speaker 1: this kind of you're opening this spiritual door to connect
27:29
Speaker 1: to an intelligence or wisdom or whatever. You know. I know,
27:33
Speaker 1: different people believe different things, but something greater and smarter
27:37
Speaker 1: and wiser than me and you, right, and TIF like
27:40
Speaker 1: you to connect. Are you looking for clarity? Are you
27:45
Speaker 1: looking for calm? Like what is it that that happens
27:50
Speaker 1: that kind of tells you where you go? You know,
27:54
Speaker 1: it's like I feel a sense of calm or confidence
27:57
Speaker 1: or knowing about.
27:58
Speaker 3: This for me, it's off and a real process of
28:03
Speaker 3: journaling and writing and talking about it with trusted others
28:08
Speaker 3: and doing a lot of prayer about it and really
28:15
Speaker 3: just going into I guess for in a better way
28:20
Speaker 3: to put the real bets of myself to go, Okay,
28:28
Speaker 3: how do I what do I do? Where do I
28:29
Speaker 3: go from here? It's I sort of have to make
28:33
Speaker 3: my way through all the layers and all the talk
28:35
Speaker 3: and the chatter in my head of do these I
28:37
Speaker 3: do and go okay, I need to find the stillness
28:43
Speaker 3: around this. I need to find the stillness. And for me,
28:47
Speaker 3: a part of that was a lot of walking in nature,
28:50
Speaker 3: because when I'm out in nature, that's when I feel
28:54
Speaker 3: grounded and calm, and often that's when I feel like
29:01
Speaker 3: I get the clarity that I need or I create
29:04
Speaker 3: the conditions that allows that clarity to come through. And
29:09
Speaker 3: it just when I got the sort of the the
29:15
Speaker 3: guidance of Nicky have the surgery, I just thought, Okay,
29:20
Speaker 3: I'm just going to sit with that. But it was
29:22
Speaker 3: consistent over a period of time and I just thought, well,
29:26
Speaker 3: that's it. Then it wasn't dramatic, it was just it
29:29
Speaker 3: was calm, it was clear, it was concise, which for
29:32
Speaker 3: me is often the way that the guidance appears in
29:37
Speaker 3: my heart. As I said, ody h, but it's definitely
29:46
Speaker 3: a process for me.
29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, I want to chuck in a
29:53
Speaker 1: red herring here, but just because I thought of it,
29:56
Speaker 1: And if you haven't heard Nikki before, this might not
29:59
Speaker 1: make much sense, but I'll try to make it make sense.
30:03
Speaker 1: So one of the things, So there's a thing in
30:07
Speaker 1: Victoria called assisted dying. Is that what it's called? Yeah?
30:11
Speaker 1: And you are sorry, what's.
30:14
Speaker 3: Called elementary assisted dying? Right?
30:17
Speaker 1: And you are a what do we call you?
30:20
Speaker 3: Like?
30:20
Speaker 1: You help people on that journey through that process. So
30:23
Speaker 1: what's the name for that? Like for you life an
30:28
Speaker 1: end of life tooler? Okay, like doing your job, which
30:32
Speaker 1: is I mean? And I also know that you volunteer
30:34
Speaker 1: and you work with homeless people, and you work with
30:36
Speaker 1: addicts and alcoholics and men in prison and you do
30:40
Speaker 1: and I know that you don't want accolades and you
30:42
Speaker 1: don't want glory. I know that.
30:43
Speaker 3: I know that.
30:44
Speaker 1: So this is me just telling people kind of who
30:46
Speaker 1: you are. And then you spend your life in service
30:50
Speaker 1: helping sick people, and then you spend some of your
30:54
Speaker 1: time helping people die, you know, I mean like that,
31:00
Speaker 1: I don't can't think of another way to say it. Okay,
31:05
Speaker 1: is yeah, it is what it is, isn't it. How
31:08
Speaker 1: does all of this and I know this is a
31:11
Speaker 1: little bit of a left turn from our chat until now,
31:15
Speaker 1: but how does this inform your thinking and decision making?
31:21
Speaker 1: And I don't know direction, you know, when you're you know,
31:27
Speaker 1: like you deal with some what would for me and
31:31
Speaker 1: Tiff probably I can't speak for Tiff, but for me anyway,
31:34
Speaker 1: this would be very confronting, hard stuff that you do
31:37
Speaker 1: every day. How does that impact how you manage you
31:45
Speaker 1: or maybe you're thinking, or your gratitude or your I
31:48
Speaker 1: don't know. It just seems like that must really impact
31:52
Speaker 1: the way that you do life.
31:56
Speaker 3: And me, I think it's a privilege to be in
32:03
Speaker 3: that position and be in the sacred space of all
32:11
Speaker 3: that intimate private space of others. And it makes me
32:19
Speaker 3: fit how I say it, it's feeds me, It nourishes me,
32:29
Speaker 3: It enlivens me. To be in that position, to be
32:34
Speaker 3: abut off the kindness and compassion and human wrongth when
32:42
Speaker 3: some run is at their most vulnerable is extraordinary. There
32:48
Speaker 3: aren't words to describe it, well, I can't find them,
32:53
Speaker 3: but it is it's like my heart and my soul
32:57
Speaker 3: is alive in those moments.
33:00
Speaker 1: Wow wow, I.
33:04
Speaker 3: Think, yeah, it's like un lit up on the inside. Wow.
33:10
Speaker 1: Do you think that that that role amongst the other
33:18
Speaker 1: roles that you play? But I don't know. We talk
33:21
Speaker 1: about purpose a lot in our culture, right whether or
33:24
Speaker 1: not it's preordained or me ordained, you know, whether or
33:27
Speaker 1: not we've got to discover it or create it or
33:29
Speaker 1: choose it. Like, what do you think your purpose is?
33:35
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that's a big question, but do
33:37
Speaker 1: you do you have clarity about your purpose?
33:45
Speaker 3: I think it ultimately. I feel like my purpose is
33:50
Speaker 3: surface and that can take different iterations in terms of
34:00
Speaker 3: h I guess my my sort of overriding prayer that
34:09
Speaker 3: I put out there is placing where you want me
34:11
Speaker 3: to be. So sometimes that's that's the cold face in
34:16
Speaker 3: terms of you know, being right in the thick of
34:18
Speaker 3: an acute hospital doing treatment, diagnosis, all that sort of stuff.
34:22
Speaker 3: And at other times it's been at the end of
34:25
Speaker 3: life where it's a totally different environment. But it's ultimately
34:34
Speaker 3: I see all of that as a function.
34:38
Speaker 1: Mhmm.
34:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, just service. And I don't mean
34:42
Speaker 3: that to sound you know, I don't know weird, but
34:47
Speaker 3: just ash giving, sharing human wants and compassion, and that
34:56
Speaker 3: is something that all of us can do with each
34:58
Speaker 3: other and it doesn't cost, but it can make so
35:02
Speaker 3: different in someone else's life. Just such a difference for
35:05
Speaker 3: someone to feel that they're acknowledged and they're known acknowledged
35:10
Speaker 3: and they're known and they're seen, you know. That's that's
35:15
Speaker 3: especially in my work in like one of the major
35:20
Speaker 3: public hospitals where there's a lot of homeless and like
35:25
Speaker 3: disenfranchised people, to see them as the person rather than
35:31
Speaker 3: to see them as patient X or medical number four
35:37
Speaker 3: seventy nine or whatever. But to see them and to
35:39
Speaker 3: go up and you know them as a person. You know,
35:44
Speaker 3: there's I don't think there's any greater gift than for
35:47
Speaker 3: someone to feel that they're being seen and heard and
35:51
Speaker 3: listened to and acknowledged and cared about. Giving someone out
35:54
Speaker 3: of time, that is the most precious thing.
36:01
Speaker 1: So my prayer tonight is going to be, dear sweet
36:03
Speaker 1: baby Jesus, make me more like Nikki. All right, let's
36:08
Speaker 1: just I could listen to you. I feel like I
36:13
Speaker 1: want to talk to you when we open the door,
36:16
Speaker 1: and you kind of share like truly, I don't know
36:19
Speaker 1: that you know for me, I don't know how everyone
36:22
Speaker 1: else feels. But I find you very inspiring and also,
36:29
Speaker 1: Craig do better.
36:31
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm just I'm just one person just
36:34
Speaker 3: having a crack and you know, learning from others. And
36:37
Speaker 3: I work with amazing people who inspire me and humble
36:42
Speaker 3: me and just lead the way for me. They like
36:47
Speaker 3: them for me. So I'm so privileged to be in
36:51
Speaker 3: those spaces.
36:54
Speaker 1: So it's not it's I know, I know, we know.
36:57
Speaker 1: There's no chest beating coming from you. I'm doing it
36:59
Speaker 1: for you. All right, let's just wind up. Tell us,
37:03
Speaker 1: so you had that surgery, what was the outcome? What
37:09
Speaker 1: you know, if you could tell us in a few
37:11
Speaker 1: minutes kind of the without rushing you. If you need more,
37:14
Speaker 1: that's fine, but like, what was the outcome of that?
37:17
Speaker 1: How long before you felt different or better or you
37:20
Speaker 1: didn't feel different or better? And where are you now?
37:23
Speaker 3: So I think it's been really two years, I think
37:27
Speaker 3: off the top of my head since I since I
37:30
Speaker 3: had the surgery. It's been up and down for sure,
37:35
Speaker 3: in terms of just all of a sudden, you know,
37:40
Speaker 3: major bits are no longer in my body. My body's
37:44
Speaker 3: like the hell, you know, and just trying to balance
37:49
Speaker 3: hormones and biochemistry. That's been It's been really up and
37:53
Speaker 3: down at times. Within the past that's probably six months.
38:02
Speaker 3: I start to feel like I'm coming out of the
38:09
Speaker 3: postop sort of recovery period of it in terms of
38:13
Speaker 3: I think my body is starting to stabilize a bit more.
38:19
Speaker 3: I still have symptoms will on a better way to
38:24
Speaker 3: put it, but they're nowhere near as prolonged or as
38:30
Speaker 3: debilitating as they were, which I'm so grateful for this
38:36
Speaker 3: in the sense that I've got my life back today
38:39
Speaker 3: in that I can say, yeah, I will, I will
38:43
Speaker 3: show up to that because I'm not trying to think,
38:47
Speaker 3: oh my god, what's my body going to be? Like,
38:49
Speaker 3: where am I going to be that, What's going to happen?
38:50
Speaker 3: Am I going to be able to function that day?
38:53
Speaker 3: I'm able to function more days than I'm not. And
38:56
Speaker 3: they's just been so precious, the whole precious, And.
39:01
Speaker 1: I guess on top of what we spoke about before,
39:04
Speaker 1: the dealing with the emotional and psychological and not being
39:08
Speaker 1: believed and all of that as well, as the physical
39:10
Speaker 1: pain and debilitating kind of stuff, which you mentioned. The
39:15
Speaker 1: third bit to that is work and not wanting to
39:19
Speaker 1: let people down, patients patients down, or your colleagues down,
39:24
Speaker 1: and not wanting to be seen as being that unreliable
39:28
Speaker 1: chick that keeps taking time off because oh she's sick again.
39:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was excruciating, absolutely xcretiating for me. I was
39:40
Speaker 3: really fortunate to have some very compassionate and kind and
39:45
Speaker 3: understanding managers and it was my responsibility to be upfront
39:50
Speaker 3: with him about what was going on. That's what That's
39:54
Speaker 3: how I felt about it. But yeah, that's been excreciating.
40:02
Speaker 1: As always, we love chatting with you if people want to.
40:05
Speaker 1: And I know you're not the spokesperson or the advocate,
40:08
Speaker 1: but in this three way conversation you are. If people
40:12
Speaker 1: want to find out more, what is it? Just like, go,
40:16
Speaker 1: do a Google search, do some reading, watch a video
40:20
Speaker 1: or two.
40:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you've got my email address and I've
40:25
Speaker 3: been more than happy to put on the links that
40:28
Speaker 3: I've that have been shown to me.
40:32
Speaker 1: Would you are you happy to tell people your email
40:34
Speaker 1: or do you want them to come via us?
40:36
Speaker 3: Come by you? Great?
40:38
Speaker 1: Yep? Okay, so just send it to Craig harpadot net.
40:44
Speaker 1: If you want to Nikki to connect with you and
40:48
Speaker 1: steer you in the right direction, that'd be great. Uh
40:52
Speaker 1: what did you think of that? Tip?
40:55
Speaker 2: Could listen to her all day?
40:58
Speaker 1: Really sweet, isn't she?
40:59
Speaker 3: Yeah?
41:00
Speaker 2: But no, I think that was There'll be so many
41:02
Speaker 2: people that will probably feel heard for the very first time,
41:07
Speaker 2: to be honest.
41:08
Speaker 3: So some like if it is relief to someone, you know.
41:15
Speaker 2: The funny thing I was going to comment earlier when
41:18
Speaker 2: I googled it and realized I had heard of it before,
41:20
Speaker 2: but I didn't. I didn't remember the full name, but
41:24
Speaker 2: the classification of it being a mental disorder when it's
41:26
Speaker 2: a it's a hormonal issue, And I find that is
41:31
Speaker 2: really perplexing and has a lot of stigma and causes,
41:35
Speaker 2: shame and causes. So it's really tough.
41:39
Speaker 3: You know. I literally asked myself, how many times am
41:43
Speaker 3: I going crazy? This is it? Some lose my mind?
41:47
Speaker 3: Now it's all done, it's all over.
41:51
Speaker 1: You are crazy. But that's a separate issue. Yeah, yeah,
41:55
Speaker 1: that's different, Yeah.
41:56
Speaker 3: In a different way.
41:57
Speaker 2: But also having an understanding that that those hormones drive
42:01
Speaker 2: behavior like even and this is like what tiny version
42:06
Speaker 2: of it.
42:06
Speaker 1: But when I.
42:07
Speaker 2: Realized that those days before my first day of my cycle,
42:11
Speaker 2: with the days that I was just losing my shit
42:14
Speaker 2: on sugar and binging, yeah, this shame and self loathing,
42:19
Speaker 2: and I dropped because I went, oh, oh, that's just
42:23
Speaker 2: that thing that happens for one day and I let
42:25
Speaker 2: it go on and then it's like sometimes I just
42:26
Speaker 2: do it and I let it go and I go,
42:27
Speaker 2: that's okay because there's a reason. It's not like, oh,
42:29
Speaker 2: you've lost it. Oh you've just lost control. You're going
42:32
Speaker 2: to be a fatty unders every day of line.
42:34
Speaker 3: Yep. I was just trapped in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
42:41
Speaker 3: and it's yeah, I was just trapped.
42:45
Speaker 1: In there, Nicky. We appreciate you. Thanks for coming to
42:49
Speaker 1: play on the You project. Thanks Tiff, Thanks guys, Thanks
42:53
Speaker 1: so much.
42:54
Speaker 3: Tiff.
42:55
Speaker 2: Good to see you again.
42:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, so good to see you. Look for to seeing
42:59
Speaker 3: you again and