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The Integration Of Synth Into Heavy Metal, As Told By DR. MIKE TRUBETSKOV · HEAVY Music Interviews

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. So my name is Mike Trobskov.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I'm a metal producer, mixing recording engineer, and I help
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: heavy bands to discover their unique cinematic sound.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Apparently, yes, fantastic And whereabouts are you located?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Richmond, Victorious or Melbourne?
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, or beautiful?
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: And look when people say since ad atmosphere, what does
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: that practically mean in a mix?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting question because indeed some people don't even
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: consider what has been it's the main instruments. I define
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: it as vibe, which is a little bit you know,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: off putting, but essentially it's a feeling. It's yes, it
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: can be very subtle type of pad, slow moving, blurred
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: type of reverbed atmosphere.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Atmosphere is but it is slow.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: You can't really perceive it, but you feel it and
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: it is missing and the tone of it will define
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: how this section of the song really feels.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And it can go different ways.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: It can sound industrial, it can sound orchestral or anything between,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: and the choice of those sounds, even supple, will define
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: that feeling.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely, there happened to be one of the
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: first sort of I don't know if you call it
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: an instrument, but one of the first sounds. I typically
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: hearing songs along with drums and like bass based.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, so that that would be some type of
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: a synth underneath it.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It can also.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Eighties type of vibe which is bigger, prominent, but again
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: completely different atmosphere which suits or may not suit at
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: all based on the genre selected.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what you do is do you take tracks
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: that are already made and then you say, I think
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the synths or this type of synth sound would work
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: great here, or do you create the track yourself?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: It really vary varies from one project to another. Most
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of the cases, if a band is set and they
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: self recorded, for instance, they send me their multi tracks,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I just go with my first instinct, and obviously we
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: have a discussion before what type of atmosphere the band wants,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: whether they wanted orchestral, epico or more subtle or maybe
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: something disturbing, and then I just down from there. I
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: have a lot of libraries, I have different SyncE, I
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: have plugins, I have hardware, so I just go with
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: what feeds the best, and normally my first instinct works
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: just so projects very if it's a full production and
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I'm more involved, I can offer different avenues and I
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: send it to the band to see what they like.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: But if it's a mix production slash mix and they don't,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: so they most set themselves. I just add what I
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: feel is missing, basically fill in the gaps, like you know,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: puzzle type of piece you should fit, just fits, and
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: sometimes bands are stoke but they can't really put their
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: finger on what has been other.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely that's a good way of putting it,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: like the puzzle pace to you know, that missing section.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: And just quickly, how did you get your start with since, like,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: is this something that you've been interested in.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Since you were a kid.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I am a classically trained piano player, so I played
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: piano since I was five and it definitely has helped
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: me so much.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for my education in that sense.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: But when speaking, I started listening to heavy music when
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I was thirteen, and it was Muse and Ramstein, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: you know, Muse have a lot of keys or traditionally
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and Ramstein have a lot of industrial element and it
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: has just been grained in me as I went basically,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: and then I just tried recreating some of it with
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: software with varying degrees of success obviously, and slowly, slowly
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: built my skills from there by simply experimenting.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: I think, wow, wow.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: And do you still play the piano today? And do
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: you find that sometimes tracks call for the piano instead
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: of the synth?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, they do.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I have my profit you can see here. Yeah, yeah,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: it's great, it's amazing. It's a classical analogue. SyncE sounds
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: like seventies, but it can different ways. And yes, I
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: do add piano when it is needed. It's not a
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: my go to it because it, you know, draws a
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: lot of attention. But some bands just they propose to
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: have piano themselves, and I just help them refine that.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I play, you know, like.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: SyncE and piano kind of similar. So yes, I play
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit, not as much. I mostly help others.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, oh that's awesome.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: And how do you introduce synths into a heavy track
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: without softening the agros?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting question. So I guess the best example
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: here would be spirit Box and a lot of synths,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: and I took a very close look at what they
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: do with them, and in fact, and essentially it's just
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of distortion, way too.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Much distortion on those scenes.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So synths are similar to other genres, maybe even pop
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: music synthes are similar, but in metal, because everything is
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: so distorted and congested, you need them to stand out more,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and that aggression comes from different types of distortion, stages
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: of saturation, fast distortion, more and more and more and more,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: and then it contains that done and lets it cut through.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: But if you don't want that to be cut through
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and you want it to sound really spooky, you can
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: add a lot of specific type of reaver it's called shimmer,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: pitch shifted river, and that blends it right back in
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: the mix and it still sounds very disturbing and type
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: of overtaking, but it somewhere in the back.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: So basically that's the way. Sometimes I just follow the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: guitar riffs with synths as well. You need a distortion
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: and you don't want them to be too upfront, but
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: that adds a different edge to the guitar sound, so
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: you don't want to step onto the main parts too
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: much unless it's a bring me the horizon type of production,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But otherwise you have a lot of freedom to push
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: them quite hard.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: Wow, wow, very I'm learning so much.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: What do you yeah, what piece of advice do you
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: have for anyone looking to get into starting to work
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: with synths.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Right, A lot of it comes from the arrangement and
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: from new music itself, and it got to be pretty natural.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Meaning if musicians, say, if a guitarist wants to do SyncE,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the best thing would be to create a hook melody
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: or any melody that doesn't clush with the main guitar line,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: and one could just play like a leak or a
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: lead and something like. People tend to overcomplicate scenes or
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: undercomplicate them, whereas essentially it's the same as any other line,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: almost like a vocal line. If you can sing that
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: line and it sounds good, it will probably sound good
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: on synths. So I would encourage people to just write
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: it without sounds in mind, but more with the musical
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: context than mine, and see how it blends with the
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: rest of the orchestration and sound selection will come next.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So that'll be my part of advice for this as
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a starting point.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh that's great.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: So don't really just try and rush into synths. That
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: makes something really really complex. Try and just follow the
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: music more.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, music will define. If you can hum a line,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: it will work.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, fantastic.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: And is there a point where adding layers actually starts
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: to hurt a song instead of helping it?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, this is something I was thinking about the
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: best answer, and this is a little bit hard to
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: define where objectively it starts to happen. But again, you
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: can see, you can feel when that piece of puzzle
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: just it doesn't fit your forcing it, and it's not
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: better to just remove something if there is a gap,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: which is an obvious gap. As a producer, I think
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: about it in terms of sounds and frequencies and what
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: is missing, and then you can sort of add the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: missing piece with the tone. But you will also be
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: able to hear when it is staking too much, when
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: it is resonating and just carries over too much. And
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: then the rest will also come from the musical perspective.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: If lines start to clash, it's too much. Again, less
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: is more, especially when people self record, they don't know
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: how much of an amplification things will come within the
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: mix in stage. So yes, I think too much will
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: be just clushes, so better out less than more.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: But if there's an audious gap, it definitely needs to
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: be filled.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I reckon sometimes artists until they have someone
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: external listen to their songs, it's hard for them to
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: really hear exactly what the song sounds like and where
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: parts are too much and too Yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Do you agree?
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely? One hundred percent.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I find very valuable to have external opinion, and I
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: think that my help is valuable because I do have
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: that first listen type of perspective, whereas bands have worked
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: on that song for years or months and they just
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: you know, they cannot anymore.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: They don't have that fresh perspective.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: That's why collaborating with someone and I'm not necessarily a producer,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: maybe just another band member or another musician helpful to
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: get that fresh perspective.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And I'm really curious, what's, in your opinion,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: the most interesting piece of synth work that you've heard in.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: A song, right?
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I think that would be Sliptoken, And I'm really amazed
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: how that band combines R and B and pop elements
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: and some very intriguing sounds which are actually not simple
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: to achieve.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: You need to really dive.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Into specific libraries and tweak them and do some discovery.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: And I gotta say that since in heavy music are
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: such a weight territory, there's not much information out there
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: about creating these. I obviously keep learning. I keep listening
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to you know, those weird plucky tones or pads or
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: like seventies in sparred weirdly modulating since that sleep talken
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: odd and I'm just thinking of how could that be
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: translated onto others music. And another example would be spirit
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Box and they're very distorted sounds, which I literally just
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: took that as covers and tried to achieve something similar,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and I applied a lot of pitch shifting within the
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: scenes itself. You can modulate sounds so much, and I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: just experimented and saw what works and what didn't. I
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: create YouTube videos about that too, and just literally trying
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: to mimic something and use that as a starting point.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: You're not hitting that sound exactly, but you can get
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of impression and see what works for you.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people correct me if I'm wrong,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: but I think a lot of people underestimate the synths
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: and just how technical and complex they can actually be.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Like you were mentioning with slip Token and spirit Box.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: To me, when I hear them, I'm like, these sounds
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: are so interesting, and to create sounds that like almost
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: like the everyday person hasn't heard before.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Is quite incredible exactly.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Another example would be avoid of Vision, so a bit
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: more underground band, but they have a lot of cutting
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: edge type of metallic modern industrial SyncE, which I also
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: try to recreate and discover some cool approaches for it.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: But I think some of the bands they just download Serum,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: which is a main synthesizer for metal, and they just
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: use Preset Library.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Which is fine, you can get that.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Started, but there is so much more to it which
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: you can utilize to get a more unique sound for
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: your band, which is important.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, No, that's an important note that, like you said,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, anyone can use the base tracks on
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: any other program, but when the magic starts to happen,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I think is when they do tweak those tracks and yeah.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Make something new exactly. Yeah, And.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: You've said a lot more goes into backing tracks than
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: people expect.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: What are some of the hidden layers most listeners would
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: never notice?
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Right? I do have some examples from my own productions recently,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: and I guess one of the ideas is that so
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: people when they add pads or strings, they just use
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the main.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Chord progression and call it a day.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: But you can add a lot more to it by
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: using counterpoint melodies or different voicing on these scenes. So additionally,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: like if you have three notes and that's a chord,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you can instead of using those three, you can use
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: the lower note and add it on top or one
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: octave below, and it will completely transform how that part feels.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Even though it's buried in the mix and no one
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: can hear it, there is gut feeling involved in it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Adding counterpoint melodies, which are rhyming with those layers can
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: add a lot of movement to those parts as well.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And something subtle as a melody, maybe on a.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Different instrument like a flute or something some scenes that
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: sounds a bit tiny can enhance this a lot. Also,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: if vocals need some work, say vocalist needs a bit
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: of a support, or maybe just a bit of a
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: different vibe, more electronic, more hip hop type of sound,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you can add so you can literally follow vocal melody
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: with the synth or add a harmony underneath. Sometimes it
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't work on the clashes, but that can make that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: section so much more vibrant and literally makes the.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Chorus hook so much more so. There's a lot of that.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Sometimes, sorry, just to cut in there. Sometimes I've noticed
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: in songs with the synths as well, sometimes I've been
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: unable to discern between say the lead vocal and then
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: backing vocal, when it's actually been since as the backing
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: vocal or you know, under I probably have the wrong terminology,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: but do you know what I'm trying to.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Say, that's exactly correct.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: So for big modern metal core slush popp of production, indeed,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: there would be main there would be a lot of
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: baking vocals which are heavily processed. And there is a
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: thing called vocal synth by isotope, which is not a synth,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: but it kind of mimics and blends vocals and scenes,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: and if you add more scenes underneath it, it will
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: just create a cohesive structure which you cannot discern, but
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: it will sound huge.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So there are elements like that which you can explore.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: So interesting and look, I just have to ask, because
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: you are a doctor, are you a doctor in synths
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: or something else?
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Biologic?
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: Oh wow, Oh that's so cool, how interesting? I just
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: had to ask because I'm like, no, wonder beautiful. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: when you're building a track, do you think more like
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: a producer or like a songwriter.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: So a bit of both. I do think that building
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: a track.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: More a producer, meaning as a producer, I think more
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: about the sounds and what fits and what doesn't and
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: which gaps I need to feel and how it makes
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: sense as a starting point, but then I use the
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: actual lines that I play. Would be more of a
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: songwriter slush producer where I can. This is a very
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: sensitive territory. You cannot step over on a band unless
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you are asked to. If you do it, yeah, it's
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: and as a producer I try to.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I am a helper.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not one who is the main songwriter in that sense,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: so I just try to kind of work around what
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: has been added and not step onto it, but just
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: help lift it up to its best place basically, So
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: a bit of both, starting thinking about it in terms
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of sounds and then extending in terms of what music
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: calls for.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I like what you said there about having to
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: keep in mind the band's like you don't want to
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: step on their toes, like, oh, I've created this song,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: you're just helping elevate exactly exactly. Yeah, and how much
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: of the emotional impact of the song comes from what's
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: happening underneath the guitars and vocals, do you think.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Obviously depends if we're talking about thresh metal, not much.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: But if we're talking about modern productions against spirit box
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: type of thing, I would say up to fifty to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: eighty percent, say bring me the Just imagine that band
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: without synes it would be pretty plain.
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they literally make or break that atmosphere, that hoppy,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: vibrant you know, where you go to the gig of
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: bringing the horizon it's exploding or lasers, all of that,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I imagine since doing that in their production. So the
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: right production or the wrong production makes or breaks it.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Literally the choice of sounds and the choice of lines.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: It's very very intense.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're talking about metal today predominantly.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: Is that genre that you've.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Always been interested in, like as number one, or were
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: you interested saying more classical or pop?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I am ninety percent metal producer.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I have worked on rock, progressive rock, post rock tracks,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: but this is my primary focus, So I'm a specialist
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: in metal. I do not work in other genres. I've
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: never done rap. I mean, I've done it a couple
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: of times, but it doesn't really, so I don't really
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: have any expertise elsewhere apart from my education and classical music,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: which helps. Yeah, but my primary focus, and I am
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: only capable of talking about that basically.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, but that's awesome. I think something
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: you mentioned then, too is the classical influence, which I
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: think a lot of people don't realize how much metal,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: like I know, you know, there's like, what's it called?
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Is it symphonic metal? No? Melodic metal?
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: And there's so many different genres of metal that actually
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: have a huge base in classical music as well.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I fully agree with that, and sometimes people bach like
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: modern modern industrial metal or fresh metal is basically bucky.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: That's so true, isn't that funny?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like classical music and heavy music have a
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: lot of similar complexity.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Going yes, yes, I'm glad.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: I'm not the only one that thinks that, and a
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: lot of bands are recording at home.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: Now, what's the biggest mistake you hear straight away? Or
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: best piece of advice?
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Right, So this is a little bit difficult, but there
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: is one, and mainly I don't think there are any
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: limitations these days anymore in terms of gear or in
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: terms of what you can achieve at home or in
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: terms of tightness, Yes, you cannot record a large drun
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: kit at home and it will not sound the same
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: if you use plugins, but tightness wise, so the main
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: mistake that I hear is just there is not enough
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: attention going to precision and tightness of the guitar tracks
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: guitars based and vocals. There's not enough layering going, say
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: sometimes just record one layer of vocals and call it,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: whereas in modern metal productions it's a stack and there
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: are emphasis accents of lyriclients. But guitar wise, it's not difficult,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: So it all stems from the skill. It's not difficult
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to record tight guitars at home, just with your interflace
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: and a plug in literally the left and right guitar
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: to be tight and on the grid. And people just
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: miss doing enough takes and then proper editing, meaning putting
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: it together again like a puzzle piece.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: So in this take you play.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: This fragment well, and in another take you play this
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: fragment well, so you can just you know, mix and
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: match up until it sounds as best as it could.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: But it all stems from poor monitoring or not enough
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: attention going to monitoring or headphones or Unfortunately, there's a
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: boring aspect which is called gain staging. Tend to say
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: record too loudly and when they listen back, details are lost.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of information about that on my
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: YouTube channel of how to set this up so that
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a little boring obviously, but you cannot
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: bypass that. And if you set up your levels right,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: you hear beata and if you hear beata, you basically
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: know what you're working with. So that aspect is unfortunately
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: still underlooked, And this is something trying to educate people upon.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: But it is a little bit difficult. It's not super easy.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: You need to develop heal.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: And another aspect is sometimes guitarists do not remove noise
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: in the guitars where it shouldn't be, so bringing up
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: the tracks removing gaps makes or breaks the song literally
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: it makes it sound tight or muddy and just noisies.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: So I would definitely encourage people to look into this.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, great point.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: You know, there's nothing worse than having such a great song,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: great vocals, but all you can hear is this loud
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: guitar and it's like if only it was you know,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: not so in your face, and if it was more refined,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the song would be perfect.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I noticed that a lot exactly exactly.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, And what's one thing about on a tight
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: budget can do that insertainly makes their recording sound more professional.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So same deal. Clean up the guitar tracks and make
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: sure that they are tight. There are ways to do that.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: But I guess also once that foundation is in place,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: people can expand and add morel layers and think about
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: that more mindfully.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Say, if there.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Are lead guitars, or if there is a guitar line
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: which needs to stand out, well, just record it again,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: recorded on top, recorded with a different voice in, recorded
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: with a different sound, so that we have options to
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: work with people. Sometimes well people mainly record the I
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: but they're sometimes just set on one tone, which is
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: a default plug in and there is nothing wrong with
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: that apart from it sounds like everyone else, and you know,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: it's good. It's better to record tightly with the average
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: tone rather than record weekly with the best tone. But
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: it's better if you can do both. You can record
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: tightly and then you can spend time and work on
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: those tones. Sometimes people are caught up on getting the
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: best sounding guitars, and that's it's not really gonna help
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: too much if you end up wasting time and not
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: doing justice to the actual tracking. So this process, production
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: and recording have to be separated. I encourage bunds to
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: just spend a day or half day dialing in what
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: they like the most and then not do that on
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: the day of recording, and then just focus on getting
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the best take. So it's eighty twenty type of approach.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Pay attention to your recording and performance.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Do the best performance you can do it at home.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's really important.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, great answer.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: And when it comes to since in metal, are you
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: leading more towards subtle texture or fully featured melodic elements?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: So again, it really depends on what I'm working with
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: and what I can within the.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Boundaries of the project. I would say he is my
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: starting point.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And then if bands say, oh, we want more, I
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: can definitely add more unless they do me and say, hey,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: we want our song completely reworked and basically we want
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: to sound like a symphonic band where we're just a
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: two piece guitar and basic.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: And do you think sorry are there any production trends
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: right now that you think are being overused.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Lots of you know, squidly noisy, pitch shifted guitars, which
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I like a lot, and the best bands in the general,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: say Throne or Humanity's Lost Breath, they do that masterfully.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: But not everyone can.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: And to get to that level, it's it's a lot
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of work and you just need a lot of experience.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah, mimic those because it is trendy, It's not
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: a great idea. I'd much rather recommend bands to focus
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: on their own music and their own message and then
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: work around the emotion they want to go for and
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: how that can be achieved. Say, if they want something
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: heictic dissonant, Yes, going for pitch shifted squeally guitars makes sense.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: But if you do that every bar and then you
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: have a sub drop every four bars, it's kind of
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: you know, you need taste, and you need to develop
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: your sense of taste, but listening to a lot of
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: music and pretty much stealing the influences which then become
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: not a stolen thing but your inspiration.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so at the like pretty how would you say,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: like unique sort of tones?
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I guess sort of at the don't make it like
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: something you go for straight away.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: Is that what you're.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Saying pretty much?
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, And do.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: You think modern production is raising the bar or making
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: it harder for bands.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: To stand out?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Right? So a bit of both.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: But of the bassline, I do think that the bar
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: has been raised significantly. Here's what I'm thinking because modern
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: productions are so refined. Drums are sampled, drums are grided
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: like one hundred percent on the grid, and you cannot
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: imagine modern productions not being that just because of the
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: complexity that the music is.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Guitar riffs are so complex.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: That if things are kind of roll on the edges
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: are and are not as tight.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: They just don't stand out.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: So overall it pushes musicians to be better and a
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: new generation of drummers who only listen to that quantized
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: greed music and they perform better just because they know
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: that this is now the standard.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And same with the guitarists.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: At the same time, though again, if musicians are not
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: trained enough and they don't put enough attention to performance
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and they rely on those editing production skills, yeah, it
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: becomes sterilized. So the best thing is when bands can
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: perform so tightly and that raises the buffer performance and
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: then they don't rely on the production.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Production is actually carried through based on the material.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I find that better for modern music, and I think
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: it's evolving in a good way. It's just I think
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: that trend of over polished, over sterile productions is sort
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: of going away.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: The sound is there, and now we are dealing with
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: better musicians hopefully.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, great, great advice, and just quickly zoom is
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: going to kick me off.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: So, Mike, where can we find you on YouTube?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Go doctor Mike Metal on YouTube and.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: We'll find you lovely.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: And is there anything else you just wanted to say
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: as a part in Goodbye?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just get inspired and create the best music. We
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: have all the tools, and don't rely on anyone else's success.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Look within and you'll be absolutely gold these days.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Fantastic, Mike, Thank you so much for your time today.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you, Angela