Latest / Brian Thomas / Sarah Wolf - Ax the Tax

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Sarah Wolf - Ax the Tax · Brian Thomas

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  Speaker 1: Pick about KARCD talk station. Happy Monday. I am so
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: pleased to welcome to the fifty five CARC Morning Show.
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  Speaker 1: The one behind one of the people behind the acts
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  Speaker 1: the tax in Ohio, the Committee to Abolish Ohio Property
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  Speaker 1: Tax put it in a constitutional amendment. They say and say,
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  Speaker 1: you cannot tax property because, let's face it, you never
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  Speaker 1: really own your property. They come in, they jack your
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  Speaker 1: real estate taxes up by thirty percent. One fell Soup
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  Speaker 1: is like, oh my god. I'm a senior on a
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  Speaker 1: fixed income. I've been here for the last fifty years.
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  Speaker 1: My house is paid off, but I can't afford to
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  Speaker 1: stay here because the dam property tax is too high.
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  Speaker 1: Sounds like a good response to that and someone who's
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  Speaker 1: behind the effort to abolish property taxes in Ohio, Sarah Wolf,
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the morning show. It's a real pleasure to
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  Speaker 1: have you on this morning.
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  Speaker 2: Sarah, good morning. Thank you so much for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Now, the ballot petition was being circulated. I think the
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  Speaker 1: group started circulating it earlier this year and apparently didn't
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  Speaker 1: get enough signatures to get it on the November ballot.
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  Speaker 1: So where where are you at least in terms of
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  Speaker 1: the abolishing the property tax signature campaign xohtax dot com.
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  Speaker 1: All strongly encourage my listeners the bookmark that. But how
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  Speaker 1: many signatures do you have roughly if you can even say,
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  Speaker 1: and what's the strategy going forward to get this on
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  Speaker 1: the ballot?
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  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, all the signatures are still good
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  Speaker 2: until we turn them into the states, so we don't
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  Speaker 2: have to start from scratch.
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  Speaker 1: Good.
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  Speaker 2: We did not make it for this year. We have
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  Speaker 2: over three hundred thousand, though, and keep in mind we
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  Speaker 2: don't have the millions of dollars it usually takes to
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  Speaker 2: do a ballot initiative, and we don't have any specific
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  Speaker 2: political backing. So this is all volunteers. It's all just
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  Speaker 2: neighbor help and neighbor here, you know, small businesses. And
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  Speaker 2: I'll tell you about the nuns in a minute. So
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure by next year it will be on the ballot.
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  Speaker 2: And so to put it also in perspective, not every
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  Speaker 2: petition makes it the first year. And I always tell
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  Speaker 2: people the suffrage, the suffrage movement, you know, women's suffrage
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  Speaker 2: took seven two years. Yeah, it's gonna take what it's
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  Speaker 2: gonna take.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose I will all draw a contrast that
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  Speaker 1: with women suffrage because you had to change the paternalistic
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  Speaker 1: cultural mindset which suggested that women were not smart enough
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  Speaker 1: to vote. That took a while, as crazy as it
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  Speaker 1: was to have that spring from that position, But I
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  Speaker 1: mean the idea and going back to the simple fundamental
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  Speaker 1: idea of fairness, Sarah, this I'm making your argument for you.
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  Speaker 1: Take the senior in a fixed income situation. You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's just fundamentally wrong that they may lose their house
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  Speaker 1: because they can't afford a crazy giant property tax bill.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that's really the hit the nail on the
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  Speaker 1: head point on this, isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely? You know we've been telling them for years.
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  Speaker 2: We've been telling them for years. They've got to change
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  Speaker 2: the system. They can't just make up a number and
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  Speaker 2: that's what you pay in taxes based you know, it's
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  Speaker 2: arbitrary and it's it's capricious. It is can you try
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  Speaker 2: to fight it? And the burden of proof is they
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  Speaker 2: won't tell you how they came up with the number.
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  Speaker 2: The counties don't even tell you that. But if you
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  Speaker 2: want to fight it, the burden of proof that it's
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  Speaker 2: not that wild number is on the homeowner. Yes, and
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  Speaker 2: it's just it's too much. It's too much tax. A
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  Speaker 2: tax should be a little bit annoying at worst, it
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  Speaker 2: shouldn't change your life. And here we've got seniors going
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  Speaker 2: back to work. We've got you know, people selling their
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  Speaker 2: furniture the Taylor.
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  Speaker 1: Taxes and Sarah, we also have the county and the
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  Speaker 1: City of Cincinnati wanting to increase the property taxes through
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  Speaker 1: levee since our public school and the churche.
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  Speaker 2: Shame on them, yes, shame on them, because we just
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  Speaker 2: saw in real time what we have been talking about
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  Speaker 2: for years, that people are happy to vote for a
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  Speaker 2: levee if they are not paying it or they don't
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  Speaker 2: think they're paying it. So all these people that don't yeah,
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  Speaker 2: well and all all these people that don't own property,
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  Speaker 2: they're happy to vote for a levee today. Just the
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  Speaker 2: other day they tried to present a levee to put
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  Speaker 2: on income tax. So it's fine if other people are
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  Speaker 2: paying it, but heaven forbid it comes out of their
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  Speaker 2: own paycheck. And both the Democrat and the Republican parties
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  Speaker 2: even came out, no, no, don't put it on income.
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  Speaker 2: You can't put it on incomes. Another, why is it more?
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  Speaker 2: What is the justification for the levee. If it's not
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  Speaker 2: good enough to come out of income tax, well, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it's worth it, then why
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  Speaker 2: is it okay to put it on property.
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  Speaker 1: I was puzzled by that reaction to it. Didn't make
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  Speaker 1: much sense them shifting from the income over to property
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  Speaker 1: because ultimately my point being, you know, if you're a renter,
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  Speaker 1: you pay it. I mean, your landlord will ultimately increase
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  Speaker 1: your rent to cover the increase in property taxes. They're
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  Speaker 1: not going to go in the hole to keep you housed.
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  Speaker 1: So really the only people that don't pay anything are
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  Speaker 1: people who have their home their housing situation fully supported
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  Speaker 1: by taxpayer dollars elsewhere. In other words, those that are
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  Speaker 1: receiving housing assistance through some governmental poverty program.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and they don't. So with rent, it should largely
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  Speaker 2: be what the market will bear, so you can't change
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  Speaker 2: the rent in the middle of a lease. So like
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  Speaker 2: they're coming in and getting up.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know, you can't pay it's the reason.
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  Speaker 2: You can raise it all you want. But if people
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  Speaker 2: aren't going.
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  Speaker 1: To pay it, well, they get duped into thinking that
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  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's they're not going to have an
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  Speaker 1: increase in their rent immediately, of course, because of the restrictions,
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  Speaker 1: but ultimately when the rent does go up, maybe to
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  Speaker 1: cover the property tax in part, they don't retribute the
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  Speaker 1: increase in rent back to the vote they made increase
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  Speaker 1: the property taxes.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, well, it's just shameful. But the more they do this,
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  Speaker 2: the more signatures we get. People have just had enough
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  Speaker 2: of this. And now, actually, have you heard about apparently
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  Speaker 2: House Joint Resolution seven, Mark Heiner out of Knox County Rep.
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  Speaker 2: He there's just been movement on this. He presented this
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  Speaker 2: back in February, and apparently there's been movement on it
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  Speaker 2: because I've been hearing a little bit about it on
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  Speaker 2: the news, and I contacted his office because what he
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  Speaker 2: wants to do is something like what I think DeSantis
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  Speaker 2: is trying to do, which is just abolished property taxes
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  Speaker 2: for your primary residence. Now we want it. We're not
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  Speaker 2: going to abandon the petition over this, but at least
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  Speaker 2: it is real. They're starting to talk about real reform
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  Speaker 2: because we have in our the first Article of our
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  Speaker 2: Constitution and analienable right to acquire, possess, and protect property.
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  Speaker 2: And it doesn't make any differentiation between you know, small
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  Speaker 2: business property, farmland, or home ownership. It's just property, and
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  Speaker 2: that's an inalienable right. And how do we protect it?
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  Speaker 2: You know, how do we protect our property if they
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  Speaker 2: can just you know, tax you out of it. Right,
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  Speaker 2: it's not just from other people, it's from the government.
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  Speaker 2: The law exists to protect the people, not just from
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  Speaker 2: other people, but from the government. And that's the mentality
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  Speaker 2: we got to get back to thinking about. Is the
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  Speaker 2: government's supposed to work for us?
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  Speaker 1: All right? Well, and I'm reading a state Representative Mark
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  Speaker 1: Kiner's proposal along these lines. The joint resolution you mentioned
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  Speaker 1: a limiting proper text is on owner occupied residential homes.
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  Speaker 1: That would include these seniors that we're talking about here.
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  Speaker 1: That's homes in which the property owner resides as their
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  Speaker 1: primary residence. So like the farmers, that's the home they
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  Speaker 1: live in on their on their land now. And according
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  Speaker 1: to the reporting on this Sohio homeowners paid over ten
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  Speaker 1: billion dollars a year in residential property taxes in counting
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  Speaker 1: your twenty twenty five. Under his Joint Resolution seven, I
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  Speaker 1: imagined that ten billion dollars wouldn't be going into the coffers,
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  Speaker 1: so it does still present a huge challenge in terms
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  Speaker 1: of how everything reliant upon property tax will get their
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  Speaker 1: slice of the pie. Say please fire parks, et cetera.
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  Speaker 1: That's the challenge I think our lawmakers are fearful of.
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  Speaker 1: If your if your proposal went through and the constitution
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  Speaker 1: was changes, or even this seeming at.
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  Speaker 2: Least twenty billion if ours goes, yeah, twenty billion, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: show us here. So at least it's real reform. And
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  Speaker 2: I think we should support him in this, you know,
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  Speaker 2: trying to get some movement on this, because it would
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  Speaker 2: especially if he could do it faster than we can
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  Speaker 2: get our amendment passed, it would help a lot of
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  Speaker 2: peop people's homes.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I agree completely.
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  Speaker 2: It's probably going to die on committee, but at least
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  Speaker 2: we should, you know, we should be the reasonable ones
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  Speaker 2: and say, okay, now you're talking. Now, you're talking real
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  Speaker 2: reform here. All this other stuff fiddling with the millage
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  Speaker 2: and all that, No, that's not real reform. And it
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  Speaker 2: doesn't mean a hill of beans as long as the
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  Speaker 2: county can just make up whatever price they want on
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  Speaker 2: your you know, for your valuation.
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  Speaker 1: Right. Well, and then his his bill would would address
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  Speaker 1: the urgency concern because people want their property taxes reduced.
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  Speaker 1: Now they've already passed some legislation. Everybody says it's a
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  Speaker 1: good thing going forward that will spike increase, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: the state paid owner occupied tax, but they did changing
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  Speaker 1: the formula by which the school district's guaranteed minimum tax
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  Speaker 1: is calculated. There's other things that were passed. But that's okay.
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  Speaker 1: We're not going to experience this one third spike that
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  Speaker 1: we felt like the last time our homes were reassessed.
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  Speaker 1: So maybe going I know, but we're dealing with the reality.
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  Speaker 2: The murder offer you to pay for the funeral.
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  Speaker 1: At this twenty I know. That's why people are excited
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  Speaker 1: about what you're doing. But then again, there's gonna be
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  Speaker 1: a well oiled opposition to the effort too. We can
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  Speaker 1: talk about that, but then let's also talk about, Okay, uh,
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  Speaker 1: how will all of these entities currently funded by property
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  Speaker 1: tax be funded down the road. That's the challenge we're
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  Speaker 1: mainly faced with. We had a simple answer to that question,
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  Speaker 1: maybe we'd have more people in favor of your resolution.
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  Speaker 1: I will bring hard on, Sara. We're gonna take it
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  Speaker 1: for break, we'll bring it back. You're not done yet.
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  Speaker 1: Go to ax ohtax dot com Abolisher House Party Tax
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  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty seven. That's where you find out where
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  Speaker 1: the petitions are. You can get a petition, you can
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  Speaker 1: take action, volunteer, et cetera. Axohtax dot com. More with
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Sarah Wolf on this topic Don't Go Away fifty five KRC.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: For more information about contests on this station, go to
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: FIATE Brian Thomas with Sarah Wolf from the Community to
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Abolished Property Taxes online at axoh Tax Axohio tax dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Get a petition there because next year it'll definitely be
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: on the ballot. They had attained a north of three
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  Speaker 1: hundred thousand signatures. They need four hundred and thirteen thousand,
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  Speaker 1: almost five hundred ballid signatures from half of the Ohios
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  Speaker 1: county that'd be forty four counties, and they need a
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  Speaker 1: buffer zone in there, so they wanted to gather and
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  Speaker 1: collect about six hundred and twenty thousand. Didn't hit the
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  Speaker 1: mark this year, but I think it's pretty solid. You
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  Speaker 1: can expect them to be on the ballot next year.
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  Speaker 1: So between now and then, and this is an interesting
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  Speaker 1: development she brought there. They's attention today. House Joint Resolution
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  Speaker 1: seven which would eliminate This is one sponsored by state
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  Speaker 1: Representative Mark Heiner. Eliminate property taxes on owner occupied residential homes.
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  Speaker 1: It'll even place all the other taxes like not owner occupied, commercial, industrial, agricultural, public, utility,
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  Speaker 1: personal property, those would all stay in place. That would
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  Speaker 1: cut ten billion dollars out of the tax out of
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  Speaker 1: the taxes that flow into Ohio. Sara, can I take
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  Speaker 1: a moment in time to interject a comment on how
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  Speaker 1: how great I think Mark Heiner's proposal is. If it
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  Speaker 1: cuts ten billion dollars from ohios offers, do you think
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  Speaker 1: that might force our elected officials and columbus to start
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  Speaker 1: going after all of the fraud, waste and abuse that
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: we are dealing with in Ohio. Huh.
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  Speaker 2: Of course they shouldn't have enough money to commit fraud
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  Speaker 2: right now. And here's the bottom line. We will pay
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  Speaker 2: for services, you just don't tie it to our homes.
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  Speaker 2: There can be no mechanism where the government can take
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  Speaker 2: your home from you and everything that you've worked for.
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  Speaker 2: The school A lot of people don't know the state
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  Speaker 2: already is supposed to be paying for the schools. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: in the article for six and also the de rol
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  Speaker 2: decisions and then I think what's going to happen anyway,
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  Speaker 2: is that things like police and fire and other services
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  Speaker 2: are going to go to a utility model where everybody
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  Speaker 2: pays a small amount, and then if the government goes
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  Speaker 2: crazy on the funding of those, then everybody's mad, not
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  Speaker 2: just the home the beleaguer homeowners. You know.
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  Speaker 1: Well, so some are suggested, we'll pay for services. We're
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: not anarchists, no, I understand that. And some are suggesting
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  Speaker 1: an increase in the in the sales tax to cover this,
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  Speaker 1: and that's a usage.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then there's another twenty taxes that nobody probably
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  Speaker 2: even heard of. You could raise those at half percent,
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  Speaker 2: nobody would notice. But here's the other thing. When they
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: talk about so the income tax would be eleven billion
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  Speaker 2: if they eliminated the income tax in Ohio, but nobody
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: ever talks about how are we going to replace that?
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  Speaker 2: Why is that? I mean, is it because it's you know,
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  Speaker 2: they're thinking more local funds versus state funds? Or what?
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  Speaker 2: Why would I mean, why isn't anybody talking about how
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  Speaker 2: are you going to replace that if you eliminate the
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  Speaker 2: income tax?
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  Speaker 1: Well, there's it's not a static decision. I think economically speaking,
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  Speaker 1: if you look back in economic modeling and forecasting, what's
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: proven to be true if you allow people to keep
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: more of their income, they end up spending it, which
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  Speaker 1: results in more income to the federal, to the state.
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  Speaker 2: Coffers right, ten billion dollars back into the.
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  Speaker 1: Economy, and you can make the same margument by giving
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  Speaker 1: us more relief from our property tax dollars, right.
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  Speaker 2: Sarah, Absolutely, absolutely. So let me tell you about the nuns.
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  Speaker 1: Be free you ah, the nuns. This is all Hlarius,
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  Speaker 1: go ahead.
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  Speaker 2: That is so well, it's not funny, but it is.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's wild. So Hamilton County has now
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: ticked off the nuns. It's the it's downtown Saint Mary's,
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  Speaker 2: the Carmelite Daughters of Elias. They are doing great work
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: down there. They're right and thick of all of it.
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  Speaker 2: And they bought two buildings to completely derelict buildings, raised
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: funds through the parish rehab them. They're doing their charity
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: work out of there, and the county comes along and says, nope,
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  Speaker 2: those don't count as church buildings. We're going to tax you.
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  Speaker 2: And I think at first it was something like sixty
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars. Now, I just heard the story yesterday, so
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: if I get any any of the details wrong, I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: apologize and we'll correct them later. But they finally got
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: it down to they proved that they're a church and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: they're doing all this charity, and then finally the county
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  Speaker 2: still gives them a twenty thousand dollars tax bills, saying, well, okay,
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  Speaker 2: the parts of these buildings you use for charity are example,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: but where you're sleeping, where the nuns sleep, we're going
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to tax that. We're gonna attach your bedrooms. Yes, it's outrageous.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And you know, some people say, well, church should be
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: paying property taxes, but you know what, it's twenty thousand dollars.
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  Speaker 2: I've never spent that much on a car. Twenty thousand
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  Speaker 2: dollars is a lot of money. They don't they don't
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  Speaker 2: bring anything in. They're nuns, you know, and they're doing
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: all this great work, true, and it's just it's outrageous.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: So I've got a great picture all the sisters are
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: signing the petition, and I've got a great picture with
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: me and and.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Sister Marie Sarah were they were they holding rulers when
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the picture was taken, i'd be great.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I'm always busy getting signatures, so I don't
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: get pictures of everything, but yeah, I will treasure that
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: one forever because they're just wonderful people. The parish was
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: so great. We've got tons of signatures. We're going to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: be invited back for or an event, get more signatures.
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  Speaker 2: But man, once we get the nuns involved, yeah, they.
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  Speaker 1: Better watch out messing with a hornet's nest on that one. Now.
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  Speaker 1: Some may suggest that, you know, it's part of the
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  Speaker 1: Catholic Church's mission to care for the poor, which is
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  Speaker 1: exactly what the nuns are doing. Ergo, it should be
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the parishioner's responsibility to fund whatever obligations they have from
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: a taxation standpoint. But I'll let the theologians and others
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: argue amongst themselves. But yeah, it's nice to have the
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: nuns on your side when you're talking about property taxes.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I have to admit it was great.
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  Speaker 2: It was great.
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  Speaker 1: So you're still accepting signatures, you're still circulating petitions, and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: this work will continue into next year.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. And if you can only and if you
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: can only get just ten signatures, you can go to
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: the AXO tax. You can download it, print it, get
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: ten signatures, send them in. That's how we do it,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: ten signatures at a time. I can't tell you how
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: many of those short forms that we've given out, and
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: if you can do more, just you know, get a
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  Speaker 2: hold of one of us and we'll send you the
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: longer form.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you've got an epic battle staying in the neighbor.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Epic battle they've already now, I mean, well it is.
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  Speaker 2: I'm just here for the ride.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I just have to interject from my listeners. So they no,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: because you pointed out early on in this conversation that
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: this is not a funded, well oiled, you know, huge
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: pack organization kind of effort. This is a grassroots effort, pure,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: plain and simple. They already had it. April April sixty five,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: groups of local elected officials, libraries, businesses, and trade groups,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: as well as unions representing first responders and teachers union
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: put together a coalition to nix your effort. So this
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: is a moneyed, well organized opposition you're going to be
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: facing next year. So can grassroots reality beat a well
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: organized opposition that is going to be well funded. We'll
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: have our popcorn out.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, because there's this based on fear. Their campaigns
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: based on feer, and ours is based on love for
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: our neighbor. And I'll just leave it at that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Well, and yours is based on the reality of staring
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: a massive property tax bill in the face that hits home.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Sarah Wolf, keep up the great work.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: We'll have you back on again soon, and we'll keep
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: up with the efforts as we get into next year,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and keep our fingers crossed that the efforts by the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: elected official and behind the Joint Resolution seven again, Representative
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Mark Heiner. I'll encourage my listeners to get in touch
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: with the elected officials and columbus that would take the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: sting out of it right there,