Latest / Yes And Land / Wreck-It Ralph and Finding Your Third Place | Dan Langford

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Wreck-It Ralph and Finding Your Third Place | Dan Langford · Yes And Land

0:00
So it was hard for me to kind of grapple with,
0:02
like, why am I getting in trouble for helping
0:03
people? And I had to have, like, my manager,
0:05
HR, help me out. I got pipped multiple times.
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PIP is a performance improvement plan. That's
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what, like, HR and the manager are like, if you
0:14
don't shape up, maybe this job isn't going to
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work out for you, right? Ralph, Ralph, we get
0:19
it. But we can't change who we are. The sooner
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you accept that, the better off your game and
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your life will be. Like, he's super tight at
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heart. And so, like, it took him a long time
0:29
to kind of realize, like, who he was and how
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the program that he was in didn't really let
0:34
him express that. And that might sound silly,
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but, like, I hadn't had that experience before
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in my life where I could, like, I don't know,
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go into a place that wasn't school or work or
0:47
home and have people like, oh, hey, Dad, how's
0:51
it going, man? And people are like, this is cool.
0:55
And so I can stop fighting the way that the system
1:00
wanted me to work and just actually make the
1:03
system work for me. Welcome to Yes and Land,
1:08
where we say yes to the reality of yesterday
1:11
and today. And we say and to the possibility,
1:15
growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome
1:25
to another episode of Yes and Land. So to get
1:29
us kind of kicked off of this episode, I'm going
1:31
to have a little brief intro here. For 30 years,
1:36
Wreck -It Ralph was programmed to be the bad
1:38
guy. Everyone told him who he was and that he
1:40
couldn't change it. My guest today knows that
1:43
feeling. Dan Langford is a senior software engineer
1:46
by day and co -owner of Hearthside Games by night.
1:50
He's been told more than once that he didn't
1:52
fit the system, and he's watched his own kids
1:54
get told the same thing. Today, we're breaking
1:57
what we are pre -programmed for that holds us
2:00
back and breaking through to our real potential.
2:03
So Dan, welcome to YesAnland. Thanks for having
2:06
me. Happy to be here. Very excited to talk to
2:09
you today about Wreck -It Ralph. Talk a little
2:12
bit about your journey into some really kind
2:16
of fun things that you're doing, not just with
2:18
being a software engineer, but even more specifically
2:20
with Hearthside Games, which you come out. Um,
2:24
and, uh, brings a lot to the community and, and
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very excited to kind of talk about that journey,
2:28
but to get us kicked off, let's take it way back.
2:31
Like take, take it way back to little Dan and
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what, what was, what was little Dan like? What
2:38
was life like for you growing up? Oh man. Um,
2:43
so long ago, I'm just, I've been realizing recently
2:46
how old I'm getting. Um, so I'm, uh, four out
2:54
of five. kids and, uh, grew up in, in, um, Layton
3:01
up in Davis County. And, um, life was great,
3:05
man. Life was full and fun growing up in the
3:08
nineties. Um, had a loving family. Um, school
3:15
was hard. I think I was smart, but I think it
3:19
was hard. I think, I think school was, was like,
3:25
it was difficult for me, but like I knew the
3:28
stuff. sure um but i had a lot of a lot of great
3:32
friends and parents gave me a lot of cool opportunities
3:35
we were hiking all the time and skiing and going
3:39
on road trips and and uh a lot of the things
3:45
that we did like we didn't go like out of the
3:51
country and on like big cruises and stuff like
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that uh it was mostly like you know hiking for
4:00
five days in the canyon lands or something like
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that. It was really fun, yeah. Yeah, you don't
4:08
have to go travel to a bunch of wild destinations
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to have a good time. When I was growing up, we
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oftentimes would go down to Southern California
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and stay with some family in Vista. And so the
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only out -of -country experience that I ever
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had is we would then take a little train down
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to the border. We walk across the border to Tijuana.
4:28
Okay. And go, you know, buy stuff at the little
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shops there and barter with people. So that was
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the only time, like, for the first 30 years of
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my life that I ever went out of the country was
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just Tijuana. Not exactly like the, you know,
4:40
most luxurious destination. Was interesting to
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see because you see, and honestly, a lot of poverty,
4:47
like people in really tough situations. I always
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did feel a little bit strange for me trying to
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barter with somebody who you're like. yeah, they
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probably could use the extra money. And I'm trying
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to like barter them down. I was never good at
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it. I was always like, oh yeah, it's 20 bucks.
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Okay, well, how about 19? Okay, perfect. My brother
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was always very, very skilled with it. He would
5:08
be able to know in the right time to like walk
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away, right? Where then they like try to get
5:13
you to come back. No, no, no, I'll get you for
5:15
10 bucks and then you get the good deals, right?
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But yeah, I mean, part of the grownup experience
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is just like being with the people you love,
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right? And feeling like you belong with those
5:24
people. And then you mentioned in school that
5:27
you were plenty smart, which obviously you've
5:28
proven that throughout your career. But it was
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a little bit hard. Tell me more about that. Yeah,
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I just didn't like the head of my assignments.
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Man, that sounds exactly like my 15 -year -old
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right now. Like literally sounds exactly like
5:45
him. Yeah, and I think it started a very specific
5:50
year. I thought he was like fifth grade. And
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then all of a sudden I was like, I'm not doing
5:53
this. And it wasn't because, like, I didn't know
5:58
the stuff. I think at the time I didn't really
6:04
know what was going on. And looking back at it
6:08
now, like, I was, you know, easily distracted.
6:12
And so I would just, you know, out of sight,
6:15
out of mind, I'd forget about it. And then I
6:18
would just not handle it. And then at some point
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it's like, ah, it's, you know, not worth doing
6:23
it anymore, so just not. Like at this point I'm
6:25
going to fail. So might as well just not do it
6:27
anymore. And then, um, my parents, they, uh,
6:31
they were very, um, they were very, very adamant
6:38
that like I do work, even if I'm not going to
6:41
get great. So I remember one time, um, my dad
6:43
going to parent teacher conference, I think it
6:46
was like eighth grade or something. And, um,
6:49
my math teacher was like, ah, he hasn't, he hasn't
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had to work for like for weeks and weeks and
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weeks. You know, there's no way he's going to.
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Anyways, my dad was like, he's going to do all
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the assignments. He's going to come in early
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and he's going to do all the assignments. She's
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like, he's not getting credit for him. And he's
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like, that's not the point. He needs to do the
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work. And so I went in every morning. My dad
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dropped me off early at school so I could go
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and make up all my missed work. You know, and
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it's things like that that taught me, like. Yeah,
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it is sometimes more about, like, just checking
7:26
things off. And it's about, like, doing what
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you've been asked to do and what you were committed
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to do and going through. I don't know. I think
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it's just, like, being honorable and trustworthy,
7:39
being a man of your word, like, and actually
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doing the work that you wanted to do. But it
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was hard. And I think it was kind of at that
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time that I started to realize that, like, I
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think my brain is wired differently. It's easy
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for me to forget and to... get distracted but
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then when i need to focus in on something um
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i'm able to like like hyper focus and and really
8:02
get it done and hit it out of the park and hopefully
8:05
it's just not too late by then right yeah yeah
8:08
is that is that uh like the adhd or ed that you
8:13
end up realizing you had yeah yeah um and and
8:20
then i was later diagnosed with narcolepsy as
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well. And so just a handful of things going on
8:26
that was, it was hard to, made it hard to, I
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don't know, function or focus in the way that
8:33
society might expect you to. Right. And, um,
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and we're talking like, and that it was a different
8:41
time than it is, than it is now. And it was harder
8:44
to, to like maybe recognize it and, and diagnose
8:48
it and, and. And at the time, the medicine for
8:58
it was, and the ways that it was treated was
9:01
kind of concerning to some parents as well, right?
9:05
Sure. A little concerned about throwing your
9:07
kid on medicine and him losing his entire personality,
9:10
right? And so those are some things that my parents
9:12
are hard to face. They're like, you know, they're
9:18
like, he's a great kid. He's fine. He's happy.
9:21
maybe we don't need to like throw them up right
9:23
yeah and so that's um but over the years yeah
9:28
i've i've tried to get some help like medicine
9:34
or therapy and and you know what a lot of it
9:37
for me has been is just like an understanding
9:38
yeah that that's that's been a really big help
9:41
for me is what now that i understand like oh
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this is a this is a thing this is a way that
9:46
that you know my brain might be wired a little
9:48
differently and and and most of of what has worked
9:53
for me is actually adapting my life or my patterns
9:59
or habits to work well with the way that I wired
10:03
up here, as opposed to like trying to change
10:05
my brain to work in the world, instead change
10:08
the world around me to work into my, you know,
10:12
the way that, that, uh, that my brain wants to
10:14
work best. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. So when we,
10:17
when we take a look at Wreck -It Ralph, there's
10:20
obviously some parallels here. Yeah. you know
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uh with with ralph as as the movie starts and
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he's the he's the bad guy right he's the bad
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guy in this fix it felix game and uh he's kind
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of i mean he's programmed to do what he's supposed
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to do right he's supposed to be the bad guy he's
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supposed to wreck stuff and so he he is is just
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not loving life at the beginning of this movie
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right what what parallels do you see there between
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kind of what what Ralph was experiencing at the
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beginning of this movie, kind of some of the
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things that you experience when you're starting
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to realize like, okay, what everyone else is
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saying and what I'm supposed to do is not really
10:59
fitting with what actually works for me and what
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the way that my brain processes things. What
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parallels do you see? Yeah, so I like to think
11:10
that, so like in the movie, a lot of it gets
11:15
kicked off by them. celebrating their 30th together.
11:18
So they've been in business for 30 years. If
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I had to think that Ralph early on was like super
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good at his job and loved it and got a lot of
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fulfillment from it and like he did what he was
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programmed to do and he probably loved it initially,
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right? Loved the record. I'm gonna wreck it.
11:37
And like it was over time that he started to
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I think more fully understand, like, who he was
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and who he wanted to be. What I love about watching
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that is seeing just how, like, how kind he is,
11:52
right? Especially, like, when he meets Vanilla
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B, like, as he's frustrated at her, he's also,
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like, scaring off her bullies and helping her
12:02
make a car and stuff like that, right? Like,
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he's super kind at heart. And so, like, it took
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him a long time to kind of realize, like, who
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he was and how the program that he was in didn't
12:13
really, let him express that. Yeah. And so. Yeah,
12:20
that's a great point. One of the quotes I wrote
12:22
down, I want to get your take on, is early on,
12:24
they're in this kind of, it's almost like it's
12:28
an AA meeting, but for the bad guys. Yeah, yeah,
12:29
yeah. Bad A -naught. That's exactly right. Bad
12:32
A -naught is what it is. And in there, one of
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the characters, I think his name's Clyde, says,
12:36
when Ralph's going to complain about this, right,
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I'm going to be a bad guy. Ralph, Ralph, we get
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it. But we can't change who we are. The sooner
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you accept that, the better off your game and
12:45
your life will be. And so it's interesting that,
12:48
like, people are just telling Mike, sorry, can't
12:50
do anything about it. He's got to accept it the
12:52
way it is. And, you know, what the movie is showing
12:55
is that, like, Ralph was just like, that just
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isn't going to work for me. There's got to be
12:58
something more for me there. There's got to be
13:00
something more that I can do. Because I think
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you're right. He actually was really kind at
13:05
heart. And the movie really proves that. And
13:06
he's not getting the opportunity to show that
13:08
at all in the game. He's always there as a dude
13:10
to be the bad guy and wreck things and can't
13:13
be embraced for the kindness that he has, which
13:16
is really kind of a fun way for us to then see
13:18
how that plays out with the things that he does.
13:22
And so when we look at that, where do you kind
13:26
of see that journey then taking him? How does
13:27
he end up getting to that point where he can
13:30
start to realize a little bit more about what
13:33
he's looking for in life? Obviously, if you look
13:36
at the movie as a whole, right, he's got to leave
13:39
his gang. And go on some adventures of his own.
13:43
Yeah. But before even that, if you remember where
13:49
he went after Bad A -Law, but before he goes
13:52
into, is it Heroes West? Heroes Journey? Heroes
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Duty. That's right. How did I forget that? Heroes
13:59
Duty. That's right. Where was he before that?
14:04
He was actually in a bar. He was in the tavern.
14:07
he was he was in and uh from open right he's
14:10
running his sorrows and and the tavern king was
14:13
trying to help off the might be a metal and the
14:16
contract of the lost and found right yeah and
14:18
uh um but yeah he's he's he's uh he's gotta leave
14:22
he by by by leaving that environment of his game
14:28
where i like he knew what he was going to be
14:33
told this day right he knew how people would
14:35
respond how they're going to treat him He kind
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of needed to break out of that and find another
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place to go on his own journey and adventure
14:44
and kind of learn who he is and kind of take
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his own journey, which he just couldn't accomplish.
14:54
Yeah. And, you know, I think as you're saying
14:59
that, what it reminds me about is. Because I
15:02
think Felix, at the end of every game that they
15:04
play, he gets a medal. And that's why Ralph wants
15:07
a medal. He just really wants a medal. But it's
15:09
interesting when you think about what does that
15:10
medal represent? He doesn't want it because he
15:13
just wants a coin. That's not what it is. It's
15:17
that recognition that he means something, that
15:20
he has a purpose and that he belongs somewhere.
15:24
And I think that's what he was looking for and
15:26
needed to go outside that game, outside that
15:28
environment. He needed to change the environment.
15:31
in order to start to realize the value that he
15:34
actually had. I think it took him a while to
15:38
even realize that because initially it was just
15:41
that shiny thing. He's like, if I go back with
15:43
the metal, they'll see that I can be a hero,
15:46
right? It was all about the metal. And so that
15:52
final scene where he's... falling down out of
15:57
the sky onto the Mentos volcano. And he holds
16:00
in his hand that the medal that Penelope made
16:03
for him says, you're my hero. And that's where
16:05
he's really starting to realize that life doesn't
16:07
mean to be the shiny thing. I just want someone
16:10
to like me for who I am. Yeah. Not everywhere
16:17
can be the happiest place on earth. And at RCG
16:21
Law Group, my job outside of our podcast, we
16:24
get that. Life throws curveballs. Legal stuff,
16:27
family stuff, the things you didn't see coming.
16:30
That's what we're here for. If you're dealing
16:32
with something and don't know where to turn,
16:34
give RCG a call. One of the things that we talked
16:38
about for Dan was we talked a little bit about
16:40
trains. Yeah. And your kids. Yeah. And an experience
16:46
that you guys had with kind of like a, it was
16:49
like a train club of sorts. Yeah. What your kids
16:52
were doing with the trains versus what everybody
16:54
else there thought. Maybe you could share that
16:56
with us because I think it parallels really well
16:58
this story we're talking about of like, wait,
17:01
is something supposed to be in everything? Is
17:03
it supposed to be that way? But maybe not. So
17:06
we inherited some model train stuff from Grandpa
17:14
after he passed and thought we would kind of
17:20
just see what this model train world was about
17:23
so that Grandpa's trains didn't get thrown away.
17:26
And I ended up joining a local club for all you
17:32
train nerds out there. It was N -Scale, the pizza
17:35
box club. And it was geared towards kids. And
17:40
they would give the kids a platform about the
17:44
size of like a big pizza box. And they would
17:46
put an N -Scale track on it. And then they would
17:51
teach the kids like about modeling terrain. and
17:56
trains and stuff like that. And we wired up a
17:58
little electrical work on it and then build a
18:01
big bottle around it and make it yours. And it
18:03
was great, super fun. And the old train heads
18:07
that were running it were very, very kind and
18:10
imparted a lot of wisdom of model train on us.
18:15
But I had my young girls with me and I wanted
18:19
them to be able to do it the way they wanted
18:22
to do it. And we'd actually just watched. uh,
18:27
bracket Ralph and, and my one daughter, she wanted
18:31
to make it, she wanted to model it after that,
18:34
that world. So instead of like, you know, where
18:38
a normal model train would have like a mountain
18:41
and the lake and, you know, trees and, and really
18:44
pretty scenery that takes a lot of skill. Like
18:47
we made a, a three tier cage and our lake in
18:51
the middle was green slime. Um, If you remember
18:55
that scene where Wreck -It Ralph, he's like covered
18:59
in the green goo and then he gets covered in
19:01
candy. So he's this monster coming out of the
19:03
trees. And we had like Oreos and a Coke bottle
19:08
and candy canes. And we decorated the cake and
19:14
it just looked like dessert. And she's loved
19:17
it. And we go to the train club and some of the
19:22
old train heads were. kind of a little frustrated
19:26
that we don't follow their instructions. And
19:27
they even, they even pointed us outside and said,
19:30
look at those mountains. They're not shaped like
19:33
that. They're more sloped. And, and cause we
19:36
had the three tier cake. And, and I'm sitting
19:39
here thinking like, did you just not see the
19:41
vision? It's like, it's supposed to be cake.
19:42
It's not that we don't know how to make mountains.
19:43
It's like, it's supposed to be cake. Um, and,
19:46
uh, so some of them were all kind of grumpy and.
19:49
That we were doing it wrong. But at the same
19:51
time, like the other kids in the train, they'd
19:53
be like, what? They made a cake? I made a mountain.
19:58
They made a cake. That's cool. And they would
20:00
like start to ask their mom or dad, damn, did
20:04
I do something? And the old train heads there
20:07
like, no, it's not from a mountain. And my other
20:12
daughter, that one, we just did a wood floor.
20:19
that we put the train on but i made the whole
20:22
thing magnetic and then we got a bunch of toy
20:24
story toys and put magnets on them and i got
20:29
you know barrel monkeys and lincoln logs and
20:32
and there's a scene i want to say it's from total
20:36
story 3d opening scene with the orphan trolls
20:39
on the train and the trains going into the cavern
20:42
yeah you know those opening montages they did
20:44
and we like expected that and found out that
20:48
that train was a Jupiter actually when we found
20:52
a Jupiter engine anyways that one was made to
20:54
be played on and again it wasn't a mountain it
20:58
wasn't a lake and it was something that I wanted
21:00
my kids to be able to interact with so they would
21:02
actually play as the train was going around and
21:05
anyways to make there was a lot of really interesting
21:10
interactions there but like to kind of bring
21:13
it home there was actually a junior train modeling
21:16
competition and Um, my girls got Joel Bush place
21:21
and they got their picture taken and they're
21:23
in the Walther's magazine, um, featured for their
21:27
creative design and it made all the old trend
21:30
heads super grumpy, I think, but I was really
21:33
proud of them for like, you know, being willing
21:36
and able to express themselves and make the thing
21:41
they want to make, even though they were being
21:42
told that they were doing it wrong. Yeah. I wrote
21:45
down a quote because I think it fits so perfectly
21:48
within this. This was from a TED Talk by Sir
21:51
Ken Robinson. And he said, if you're not prepared
21:55
to be wronged, you'll never come up with anything
21:58
original. And so for you, as your girls are experiencing
22:02
this, what was the life lesson that you feel
22:04
like that they were kind of learning from this
22:07
experience with these train heads who were telling
22:09
them, no, you have to do it this way, and you
22:11
helping them understand they can do something
22:13
different? Yeah. Yeah. I hope that they, that
22:17
they learned in their life from that and other
22:19
experiences that, that it's okay to say no. It's
22:24
going to say, no, I'm going to try something
22:25
different. It's okay to, you know, find that,
22:28
that way to kind of respectfully say, value your
22:31
opinion, hand your expertise. Can I still want
22:33
to tap into that? But at the same time, I'm going
22:37
to say no. I'm going to try something different.
22:40
That can be, that can be hard to do in life is
22:42
to, is to. It's so easy to want to conform to
22:48
what the world is telling you you need to do.
22:53
That sentence would be the path of least resistance.
22:56
But I love that quote because, yeah, it's really
23:01
create something. You have to be able to break
23:03
those walls, those boundaries or whatever. Yeah.
23:08
And I do think it is really hard sometimes. i'm
23:14
very much at times a conformist right like growing
23:18
up definitely was a bit like my my 13 year old
23:22
um maybe even a bit of a people pleaser and so
23:25
the idea of like doing something different somebody
23:28
saying you can't do it that way was like death
23:31
like no way i got to do it exactly the way right
23:34
i was always really good like news follow these
23:36
instructions exactly the way they are right if
23:38
i was ever to make a lego set oh man i've got
23:41
every page out on pono like Have me put together
23:43
your Ikea furniture because I will follow that
23:45
to a T, like every single thing in its place.
23:49
And really hard for me to like sometimes kind
23:52
of break out of that. And I think just in life
23:54
in general, it sometimes is hard for us to put
23:57
ourselves out there because that's scary. You
24:00
know, it's scary to say I'm going to do something
24:02
different. It's scary to say, you know what,
24:03
I understand the value of what you have and I
24:06
still want to go try this thing that's a little
24:08
bit different. That's actually really scary because
24:09
it comes along with that risk of failure. Yeah.
24:12
Failure is a little bit scary for people, but
24:13
what a valuable lesson, right? Your girls are
24:15
learning. And I love that they ended up winning
24:17
first place. Oh yeah. Like that's like the perfect
24:19
cap to that story because then they have that
24:22
originality rewarded. And they were so young.
24:26
I don't, I don't think they grasped at that time
24:30
what was going on. Maybe it was more of a lesson
24:33
for, for me. Sure. Trying to be a dad and figure
24:35
out how to be a dad. They were so young. I'm
24:37
like, oh, my picture's in the paper. yeah can
24:40
we play with the trains yeah um i'll bet i'll
24:44
bet that carries through i'll bet that's something
24:46
that that ends up being something they kind of
24:49
core memory come back to and realize especially
24:51
if they get older what the value of that lesson
24:53
was that you helped empower them to do um one
24:57
of the things i was thinking about with this
24:58
too is something you had shared before uh in
25:01
our in our pre -show about at work um when you
25:07
were kind of sometimes experiencing the way that
25:10
the work wanted you to do certain things that
25:12
wasn't working out very well. And then when you
25:14
got into a position where you were more in leadership
25:17
at team lead, and then you could change the way
25:20
that things were done and that kind of breakthrough,
25:23
maybe you can share that with us a little bit
25:25
about what, what you were told to do and had
25:27
to do and why that didn't work and why things
25:30
shifted and changed once you had more control
25:32
over the environment. Yeah. So in, in the, The
25:37
type of software development I was in, I was
25:39
on a large team and we had another business group
25:42
in the organization that was driving the requirements
25:46
and signing off on the work that we did. And
25:49
they had deadlines that we were committing to.
25:53
And I got into a bit of a group there quite a
25:58
few times where I just wasn't. to limit my workout
26:01
time, right? And I'm having flashbacks to high
26:03
school, junior high, elementary school, where
26:05
I'm not handing my assignments, but it's not
26:08
because I didn't know how to do it. And so I'm
26:12
having to take a step back and be like, what's
26:13
going on here? And I had to have my manager,
26:16
HR, help me out. I got pipped multiple times.
26:21
PIP is a performance improvement plan. That's
26:23
what HR and the manager are like. If you don't
26:25
shape up, maybe this job isn't going to work
26:28
out for you, right? And so I'm trying to work
26:35
with my managers to figure out what's going on.
26:37
And like, I'm being distracted. And at first
26:41
that's kind of, oh, you're being distracted too
26:45
much, right? Let's, let's, you know, change your
26:49
work environment. Let's get you some headphones.
26:50
Let's make sure you got tasks to do. So you're
26:53
not distracted as much. And then we dig deeper
26:56
and I'm realizing that like, I'm actually like,
26:58
what am I being distracted with though? It's
27:00
not like I'm, it's like. It's like a social media
27:02
or video game or anything like that. I was actually
27:05
getting distracted helping people. I was, and
27:08
so, and so like, it never really clicked with
27:11
me that I was doing anything wrong because I
27:14
was, I was helping, you know, Dave, Ted and others,
27:18
like get their work done and overcome their roadblocks
27:22
and things. But, but it was at the cost of my
27:24
own work. And that just wasn't driving. Like
27:28
I made communities to get. these tasks done on
27:31
a certain date. And I wasn't getting them done.
27:33
And, and I was trying to, at first I was like,
27:36
well, I'm helping people. Like, like I'm progressing.
27:38
The work is getting done. Like, like overall
27:41
it seems better. I mentioned like, yeah, but
27:43
you didn't do the thing that you did. And, and
27:47
as you were told, like doing this stuff got done.
27:49
And, and so it was hard for me to kind of grapple
27:51
with like, the world wanted me to work in a certain
27:53
way, but I was physically distracted, but also
27:55
wanted to help people. And I just felt like I
27:57
was doing good, but. But at the same time, I'm
27:59
being punished or reprimanded or course corrected.
28:03
And that was kind of hard for me. I would understand
28:06
if I was, you know, actually like slacking off
28:10
and not doing the work or doing it poorly. But
28:13
so it was hard for me to kind of grapple with,
28:15
like, why am I getting in trouble for helping
28:17
people? And that actually happened multiple times
28:20
over my career. I eventually got into a spot
28:27
where I was able to be a team lead. And it was
28:31
like a huge sigh of relief or a wave of relief
28:35
wash over me as I realized I could actually work
28:38
the way that I want to work now. And instead
28:42
of like being reprimanded for interrupting my
28:49
own work to help people with their work, I was
28:52
able to structure the team so that that was my
28:54
role. That was my job. And so I could stop, like,
28:59
fighting the way that the system wanted me to
29:03
work and just actually make the system work for
29:07
me. And it got to a point where I just kind of
29:09
defined that with my team. My role is, at the
29:12
beginning of the day, I don't know what I'm doing
29:14
because my job is to hear what you're doing and
29:17
to help. and clear those roadblocks and to step
29:20
in where I need to. And that's what I started
29:23
realizing. That's what I've been doing for years
29:24
and years and years that I've been told I was
29:26
doing wrong. And now it could be basically my
29:29
job description. And I felt like that part of
29:33
my career, I really thrived a lot and I grew
29:37
a lot and I contributed a lot back to the team
29:40
because I was like, I kind of found my stride.
29:42
I was in my game. It was a lot of fun. I think
29:48
it's a great example of this quote that I pulled
29:52
from James Clear, who he's like the habit and
29:56
motivation guy, right? He wrote Atomic Habits.
29:58
He's definitely an authority on this in today's
30:02
society. And here's something he said. He said,
30:06
environment is the invisible hand that shapes
30:08
human behavior. We tend to believe our habits
30:11
are a product of our motivation, talent, and
30:13
effort. Certainly these qualities matter. But
30:16
the surprising thing is, especially over a long
30:18
time period, your personal characteristics tend
30:21
to get overpowered by your environment. And so
30:24
you have these personal characteristics of like
30:26
you want to go and help and that the distraction
30:30
was really like you trying to help other people.
30:32
You taking a greater role in facilitating what
30:36
the overall team could accomplish by doing that.
30:39
And once that environment could change and you
30:41
could step into. taking advantage of those characteristics
30:44
suddenly it starts to thrive which i think is
30:46
just your story there is just a great example
30:48
of that and you know when we can sometimes say
30:51
like okay if this isn't working let's change
30:53
the environment let's see how we can maximize
30:56
what it is as i as i've thought a lot about in
31:00
recent years like the idea of of sometimes people
31:03
have adhd i mean my 17 year old does And so keeping
31:07
his attention on training assignments is really
31:09
hard. Much like the experience, right? It's just
31:11
hard because his mind just wanders. But you know
31:13
what he can do? Boy, if he's going to play video
31:15
games, he can keep that attention for hours.
31:18
And so it's the thing that can keep his attention.
31:21
And so I just attended parent -teacher conferences
31:23
yesterday with him. And I will give his teachers
31:26
credit because when we're having the conversation
31:28
about things that he does and the things that
31:31
are sometimes holding him back. They were very
31:33
accommodating and patient to understand like,
31:34
okay, this isn't working for you. Why don't we
31:37
try this? Jack, how about we try this? Let's
31:39
try doing this next time. These notes you got
31:41
to take in class, you're having a hard time just
31:43
taking them. Why don't I provide you the basis
31:45
and the outline and all you got to do is highlight
31:46
it. And then you can turn that in instead of
31:49
having to try to be distracted by those, all
31:51
these other things, highlight and then ask me
31:54
questions, write a question mark by it. If you
31:55
don't know, we'll talk about it later. And I
31:58
just really appreciated. that their willingness
32:00
to say, okay, if his attention is easily distracted,
32:03
let's adjust it. Let's change something. Before
32:07
we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor?
32:10
If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you
32:13
like, rate, and subscribe to our show? It helps
32:16
us reach more people like you. We can design
32:19
and create and build the most wonderful place
32:22
in the world, but it takes people to make the
32:25
dream a reality. The world is much more accommodating
32:29
these days to people who just work differently,
32:36
be it ADHD or narcolepsy or autism or anything
32:41
else. And I think that's a great blessing. Yeah,
32:46
it could have been a very different experience
32:49
if, you know, way back when I started. My journey
32:54
in corporate America, if corporate America was
32:56
in a different spot where it could be like, oh,
32:58
hey, you work a little differently. Maybe let's,
33:01
you know, change the way that we assign you work
33:03
and the way that we value your contribution and
33:06
measure your success. You know, it wasn't in
33:09
the spot like it was then. And definitely my
33:11
schooling wasn't in the 90s like that. So it's
33:13
really cool to see every so many different aspects
33:19
of our of our community being much more. adaptable
33:25
and, um, understanding and flexible to, to, to
33:29
kids and people being, being different and thinking
33:33
different and working differently. It's awesome.
33:35
So one of the things I want to talk to you about
33:37
too, uh, in relation to kind of like finding
33:40
the things that, that bring us, um, like joy
33:44
and bring us the things that we're looking for.
33:47
Tell me about the journey of getting to a place
33:50
where you open up. Hard Side Games, where you
33:52
open up this game store. Like, tell me how that
33:55
came about. Yeah, that's something that I know
33:59
you shouldn't be doing. Someone who's 40 or I
34:05
don't know. Yeah, shouldn't be like, yeah, let's
34:08
open a game store with your friend. I don't know.
34:14
That's society will tell you that's that's a
34:16
weird path to be taken. Totally right. You're
34:18
a software engineer. You're working in corporate
34:20
America. and you go do this yes society would
34:23
definitely say yeah don't do that yeah yeah um
34:26
it it all started i think the most significant
34:35
beginning of it was like 2014 2015 i was playing
34:42
um hearthstone so that's like uh it's a trading
34:49
card it's a digital trading card game so you
34:51
might play it on your ipad uh out of a blizzard
34:54
universe And I played with my friend Andre and
34:59
having lots of fun. And he was geeking out about
35:03
it. And we were wanting to play with other people.
35:09
And we started running like events and at tournaments.
35:13
Our very first one was out of like a little restaurant
35:19
in Daybreak. They just let us like. take over
35:22
the whole restaurant and bring a bunch of people
35:24
in and, and, and play video games with each other.
35:28
But it was like in person. And so we started
35:31
running events like that. And, and we ran at
35:34
a game Haven and, uh, the break, um, to the little
35:38
bar and they regularly ran stuff there. And all
35:43
of a sudden, like God built this community of
35:45
people who like wanted to play our games. I remember
35:48
one of the participants. I was talking to him
35:52
about, you know, the next event we're going to
35:54
run, how we might format it differently. I had
35:56
some questions about, hey, you know, if we did
35:57
the brackets like this, would that be good? Would
36:00
that be competitive? Would that be fair? And
36:02
he stopped me and was like, dude, it doesn't
36:04
matter. If it's you and Andre running it, like,
36:06
we're going to show up. Because these are the
36:08
best. That's what kind of hit me. Like, oh, we're
36:11
kind of doing something cool here, right? And
36:15
that, you know. lived its life and it was fun.
36:22
And we kind of went, went separate ways and Andre
36:26
and I always kind of stayed in touch. And then,
36:28
and then it actually, I think was, um, or Kana,
36:35
the Disney trading card game that kind of, um,
36:39
brought Andre and I back to, to, to hang it out
36:43
much more regularly. Um, Cause I knew that in
36:46
the past he'd lost magic and he lost Disney.
36:48
And so I'm like, dude, have you heard of this?
36:50
He's like, yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, man,
36:51
I can't wait for the release. And so him and
36:53
I, he starts inviting me with his kids to go
36:56
to all these other game stores and start collecting
36:57
cards and playing Wakanda as it's released. And
37:01
then it's like being in those game stores and
37:04
seeing those communities and seeing the enjoyment
37:08
and being able to do that with your kids. It
37:14
was kind of that that started us, kind of always
37:17
joke, man, we should open our own game shop.
37:19
Man, we should just do it on our own. Like, we
37:22
could do it a little bit better. Why did they
37:24
do it like that? Or think, if I was running things,
37:27
think it would be much better. And Andre and
37:30
I would frequently say, man, if we're back in
37:32
our hearts of dumb days, we would do it like
37:38
this. Remember how we did this? Remember how
37:40
we did that? man it would be it'd be great to
37:43
do but it was always just kind of a uh kind of
37:46
a joke or or kind of a dream maybe um but i don't
37:51
know at least for me um that i actually really
37:55
seriously thought that whatever happened and
37:59
then we heard um miss those games they're actually
38:05
like like a block from from here um we're going
38:10
out of business and, which is too bad, they were
38:15
a lovely store. That was a really cool community.
38:18
And it was that cool, great community they had
38:21
there, but them having to decide to close their
38:25
doors, it was then that Andre and I were texting,
38:29
we started talking to the owner about it. It
38:35
didn't quite make sense to bite, but that like
38:37
that like got us over that hurdle of like silly
38:40
little drink, like wait, maybe we can actually
38:42
do it right. Kind of got to get over that hurdle.
38:44
And now all of a sudden, once you start talking
38:46
seriously about it, it's like, Whoa, let me actually
38:48
do this. And so we started looking at other locations
38:51
and, and, um, and, and from there, it just, it
38:57
just snowballed really quickly into us. Signing
39:02
a lease off place and trying to buy a product
39:04
and designing logos and tearing carpet out. Where
39:12
we are now used to be a quinceanera dress shop.
39:15
There was more glitter than fabric in that carpet
39:18
that we were pulling out, man. I'll bet. It's
39:20
amazing. But it kind of just moved really fast.
39:22
Once we kind of like accepted, like, yeah, we're
39:25
going to do this. That's crazy it is. The momentum
39:28
just kind of. came behind it but your moon three
39:31
was asked when when you you look at that like
39:36
taking that step to do something that's very
39:38
like outside the box out of the ordinary what
39:43
is it that ultimately drew you to doing that
39:46
like what was it about the community that you
39:48
guys had started to build that gave you the motivation
39:51
to do something that was very risky the community
39:55
that people can find or build around like physical
40:01
in -person games is, um, in my, in our experience,
40:07
really, really wholesome and really, um, accepting.
40:13
So I guess we were, as we were playing games
40:15
in all these different card shops, um, you know,
40:21
you, you start to see the same people at the
40:24
different shops you go to, right? And you start
40:26
getting into your game. Yeah. Your competitive
40:28
deck you're building. And you show up to this
40:31
other car show and you see people that you saw
40:33
at the first one. And all of a sudden, like people
40:37
know your name. Right. And that might sound silly,
40:41
but like I hadn't had that experience before
40:45
in my life where I could like, I don't know,
40:48
go into a place that wasn't school or work or
40:52
home and have people like, oh, hey, Dan, how's
40:56
it going, man? And people know my name. This
40:59
is cool. And like. And all of a sudden there's
41:03
like more friends and community. And that was
41:07
a really cool aspect that we realized we wanted
41:15
to be able to continue to provide. And maybe
41:19
there's even ways that we organize or run our
41:23
store in which we could expound on that a little
41:26
bit or really lean into that or really amplify
41:28
the community side of. of in -person gaming just
41:37
to make an environment which really, I don't
41:40
know, inclusive and accepting and give people
41:44
a third space, if you will, to make friends and
41:50
to kind of find out a little bit more who they
41:53
are or to express themselves in a way that maybe
41:56
they can't do at work or at home. One of the
42:00
things I thought maybe could be kind of fun.
42:02
and helpful is maybe you could give like a 30
42:07
,000 foot view of what some of these games are
42:10
specifically with work on it. I visited your
42:13
shop recently and got to see a little bit of
42:16
that community feel when I was there and I could
42:19
see people just greeting each other as they came
42:21
in and just big smiles on their faces and people
42:24
just so welcoming. I didn't really understand
42:27
much of it, right? I had never played Magic the
42:30
Gathering. I hadn't played some other games.
42:32
my life was more of like board games, right?
42:34
I played tons of board games, a lot of video
42:36
games, but I hadn't done some of these card games,
42:38
right? And so if you were to give a 30 ,000 foot
42:41
view of some of these card games and I brought
42:44
on my set that I got at your shop, right? Like
42:47
what is this for somebody who has never done
42:50
anything with these kinds of games before, right?
42:53
I get all these cards here, got things like,
42:55
I think this is an incredible set. So I got like
42:57
Mrs. Incredible and Mr. Incredible and there's
42:59
all these cards, right? What? What is done with
43:02
these cards for somebody who has never done anything
43:05
with these games before? So, yeah, we do a lot
43:11
of card games at the shop. And I'd say that's
43:14
the core of the activities that people are doing
43:19
there. So what with these games, Magic Gathering,
43:26
Pokemon, Wakana, One Piece, Digimon. There's
43:32
a huge library of cards, and the cards have different
43:37
defects or stats and power levels and defense
43:40
and abilities. And you are organizing them. You
43:46
have to collect, you know, you put a certain
43:48
number. There's 60 cards in that deck there.
43:52
And you're finding a synergy between these cards.
43:55
You're building your deck, and then you're bringing
43:57
it to the store, and you're playing 1v1 against
44:00
other people. And in Wakanda, your goal is to
44:05
collect 20 more, and then you win the game. And
44:09
in other games, it's to deal the most damage
44:13
and to kill all their dudes. So each day has
44:17
its objective, and you've got all these cards
44:21
that support your objective, and you play 1v1,
44:22
and you take turns playing your cards and doing
44:26
your abilities. navigating the board state to
44:29
make sure that you can win. And some of it's
44:33
offensive and some of it's defensive. And then
44:35
in these events, a bunch of people show up to
44:38
play the game. And so we will pair everybody
44:41
up. And then the court wins and losses, and then
44:44
the ring pair you up with people who have similar
44:46
records. And so you're the people who are really
44:49
good or playing people who are really good. And
44:51
if you're like me, not as good, then you are
44:53
joining people like you might not be as good.
44:56
Yeah. And you're learning the game together.
44:59
And for some people, it's like real, really competitive.
45:01
They have to win. But for a lot of people, like.
45:05
it's just really fun gameplay. Like I had this
45:08
idea, I put all these cards in my deck and it's
45:11
a silly idea. Maybe most of the time it doesn't
45:13
work, but when you do get your combo off and
45:14
it does work, it's really fun. And you're seeing
45:17
how their decks play and you're realizing, oh
45:21
man, everybody keeps beating me in a particular
45:24
way. Maybe I need to get more saloon in my deck
45:27
or more card draw or more ink ramp or something
45:31
like that. There's so many like life lessons
45:35
in here around like continuous improvement and
45:38
you're recognizing how you need to improve and
45:40
adapting to your environments and right. And
45:42
just the deck building and play alone. But, but
45:46
hinged on top of all that is like this community
45:48
of these people that you're playing with and
45:51
you get to know them, you get to know how they
45:52
play and how the decks play. and you're hanging
45:55
out in between rails as you're waiting for your
45:57
next pairing, getting to know these people. And,
45:59
and community is so kind. I can't tell you how
46:02
many times after a match, um, we just sit there
46:06
and talk with my opponent about how the game
46:08
went and what worked for them and what worked
46:09
for me. And, and they even suggest like, maybe,
46:12
maybe should have played this instead of that.
46:14
And then this would have happened and it would
46:16
have triggered that. And then you could have
46:17
done this and it would have been better. And
46:19
I'm like, so I'm learning from these people.
46:20
And, um, and you see that. in every single community
46:26
game at our store. Now, it's not like that at
46:29
every store or in every game. There's some games
46:33
or stores that have a reputation for not being
46:36
as friendly. And that's one thing that we've
46:39
charged our employees with. Part of the idea
46:44
around kind of some of the core beliefs of our
46:50
stores to make sure we're making an environment
46:52
where that can happen. People can be friendly
46:59
and welcoming and we will try to stifle any rude
47:08
behavior or any attitude or experience where
47:14
people are making it not a good play experience
47:18
for others. So the community is very, very, very
47:20
important to us. Now, I want to tell people,
47:22
too, about one of the things that you were doing
47:24
when I visited your store, which I thought was
47:27
super cool. Because you had kids that came to
47:31
play chess. Oh, yeah. You came on chess nights.
47:34
Yes. Yeah. Because, okay, here was my inexperienced
47:39
brain thinking. I'm like, okay, this has got
47:42
to be a business. I've got to have a way to,
47:44
like, make money. So I'm just thinking they must
47:47
charge people to come and play the games. It
47:49
must be what it is. And I just had that totally
47:52
wrong. It's like when I'm suddenly seeing kids
47:54
come in and they're coming in and they're playing
47:55
chess with each other, I'm thinking, what is
47:58
going on? So maybe tell people a little bit about
48:01
some of the things that you do like that to bring
48:03
people together. Yeah. So for the listeners out
48:12
there who think of their game shop that they
48:15
frequent, maybe, near their home. They probably
48:20
think there's a lot, a lot, a lot of board games
48:23
on shelves and then a couple tables in the back
48:25
that you can play games. And first thing people
48:28
notice when they step into our shop is it's flipped.
48:30
We've got some shelves with games and cards and
48:33
stuff, but a lot of tables. A lot. It's a sea
48:36
of tables. Yeah, like when I walked in, it was
48:38
just like a whole bunch of tables. Yeah. I was
48:40
like, wow, there must be a lot happening here.
48:42
And that shows that like something really important
48:46
to us is it's about the play. It's not about
48:48
the sell. Sales will come, right? So we as a
48:53
business, we're all worried about that. We just
48:56
want to make a place where people can play and
48:58
feel comfortable being. And so, yeah, we don't
49:00
charge people to play. A lot of people come in,
49:03
bring their friends, bring their own games. They
49:05
play for hours. They might buy a couple snacks.
49:07
And then they leave, and we're going to see them
49:09
next week. And it's awesome. It's great. We love
49:11
it. And so, yeah, kind of leaning into that,
49:17
it's about the play. more than it is about, you
49:21
know, making money on every person who comes
49:23
to the door, has allowed us to think a little
49:29
bit outside the box as it relates to other games.
49:32
You might see other games, those do. So we have
49:35
the fine folks from PoweredChess .com who are
49:38
bringing in chess. They're in there two nights
49:41
a week, and then they're running a tournament.
49:44
They ran a tournament there, then got another
49:45
tournament. in october where the kids are going
49:48
to be dressed up in their halloween costumes
49:49
and it's going to be fun we've did we do like
49:53
um speed puzzling um and so and we've done uh
49:58
mahjong we did some mahjong classes that would
50:02
like to competitively that was really cool and
50:05
these these are things that like we're not like
50:08
raking in the dough on this right but we're creating
50:11
a fun community and we're trying to reach out
50:15
to like other parts of the community or other
50:19
parts of our, of our community that might not
50:22
frequent, um, game stores. And so like the speed
50:27
puzzling crowd and the Modron crowd, um, are
50:32
the typical people you would see that you might
50:35
see, uh, you know, on a, on a Friday night at
50:38
the game store. Um, but they love. they love
50:41
being there yeah uh so these these older ladies
50:44
will will tell us they feel just like penny from
50:47
big bang theory as you know as they as they take
50:50
her to the comic shop right yeah a little out
50:52
of the elbow but but but fun to to to be there
50:55
um and i'm constantly reminded about all the
50:58
synergies that that there are like yeah maybe
51:01
maybe the car shop is a place like that is a
51:05
place that like a lot of these these speed puzzlers
51:08
frequent but like they know pokemon as well they
51:12
bring their kids and and uh they'll win speed
51:16
puzzling and use their their winnings to pick
51:19
up packs of pokemon at chess uh the boys really
51:26
wanted a pokemon card his dad's like well if
51:28
you if he plays fourth or better and just walk
51:30
into the card and so he like did really good
51:32
in chess and his dad bought a pokemon card i
51:34
love that And I think, you know, one of the things
51:39
that I really appreciate about your shop and
51:42
shops, really shops like this just in general,
51:45
is that it's bringing people together in person.
51:48
You know, I joke because I play a little bit
51:53
of Call of Duty. Not a lot. Not a lot. But I
51:57
have for years. And when I play Call of Duty,
51:59
I play it with my friends, and it's three friends
52:02
specifically, and we've played it together for
52:04
about 20 years. Cool. And we always get together
52:07
in person to play. Now they'll sometimes play
52:09
online, right? And they'll kind of keep up. So
52:11
I kind of keep their skills sharp. Truth be told,
52:13
I play once a month and I only play when they
52:15
come over and we get together because to me,
52:18
what I love about it and why I like doing it
52:21
is because it's our opportunity to get together
52:23
and we're doing something together. We're in
52:25
person and we're having that interaction. We're
52:27
catching up, you know, what's been going on for
52:29
each other, you know, what's new in our lives
52:31
and what's happening. And that's what I love
52:34
about the feel at. your shop when I went, which
52:37
is it's people coming together in person. As
52:39
we become more and more disconnected, as we are
52:42
more and more on devices and we can do so many
52:44
things virtually and Zoom meetings and just being
52:48
involved in our phones, coming together in person
52:51
and having that shared experience together really
52:54
brings something to the table that I think people
52:57
are going to more and more need and are more
53:00
and more missing. I think it's really filling
53:02
a need that we as humans have to have a sense
53:05
of belonging. We're social creatures, right?
53:08
We've always been social creatures. Throughout
53:10
all of human history, we are social creatures.
53:12
And I love the way that you described your job
53:17
of like, we just welcome people to come, right?
53:19
Like whoever can come and be a part of this and
53:23
we just want them to feel like they belong and
53:26
we know each other's names. It reminds me of
53:28
like the song of cheers, right? Like where everybody
53:31
knows your name, right? Like that's the core
53:33
of what Cheers is, right? You know, of course
53:34
that's a bar, but it's still that same idea of
53:37
coming to a place where people know you and appreciate
53:40
you for who you are and you can just experience
53:43
fun times with them. When we were deciding what
53:49
we wanted to sort of focus on, we actually made
53:51
a very cautious, out loud decision that we were
53:54
going to focus on the games that already asked
53:57
the players to come back every week. So, like,
53:59
we have some board games, but I actually don't
54:02
think we have a copy of Ticket to Ride right
54:04
now, which the joke in the gaming industry is
54:07
that all you need is Wingspan and Ticket to Ride
54:10
and you'll make money. That's probably true.
54:13
But so all the TCGs kind of ask you to come back
54:19
each week to get more packs to find the collected
54:22
cards that you need to make your deck awesome,
54:24
right? And then there's RPGs like D &D and Pathfinder.
54:28
that that generally ask you your group to meet
54:31
back up regularly to continue your adventure
54:34
and then there's like tabletop major games like
54:36
warhammer there's a starcraft game um that again
54:41
it's the there's going to be more of an opportunity
54:45
to find people to play with in a game shop and
54:48
you got to get your latest models and your paint
54:50
and stuff like that so so we you know ticket
54:53
to ride doesn't inherently ask you to come back
54:55
to the shop and when i said that Some people
54:58
are like, oh, it sounds like you're just focusing
55:01
on games that require people to spend money every
55:03
weekend. Actually, there's a lot of people that
55:05
come and play those games every weekend that
55:06
they don't spend. It's not about them spending
55:08
money in the store. It's about them coming to
55:10
the store to find other people who love the thing
55:12
that they love. A lot of times people come to
55:15
the store and just hang out. They actually won't
55:16
even get any games in because they're in their
55:19
model or they're building their deck or they're
55:21
sorting their cards. They just kind of want to
55:23
just hang out. with people and watch other people
55:26
play and get to know people and um that's something
55:29
that's something i i realized just last night
55:32
i was at the store and um i decided i wanted
55:37
to build a cat's a dog magic together and you
55:43
know i could have been at home had that idea
55:45
googled some things found a list gone on a website
55:48
bought all the cards had them shipped to my house
55:50
and been one and done, but I went to the store
55:53
and I was talking to people about it and someone
55:55
overheard me. He's like, oh man, I just sold
55:58
the perfect card to your store. You guys should
56:01
have it in the back of the inventory. I went
56:02
and found it and I bought it. And I'm like, this
56:05
is really cool. It's like a Garfield and Odie
56:07
special magic gathering card for a deck that
56:10
has a bunch of cats and dogs in it. And I was
56:13
like, oh, this is awesome, man. Thanks. He just
56:15
eavesdropped on our conversation, overheard it,
56:17
and then suggested this really cool card to me.
56:19
And then a few minutes later, he comes back and
56:21
he hands me a whole deck. He's like, here you
56:23
go. These are all Captain Dogs I have. Just have
56:26
them. I'm like, no, I didn't buy it for him.
56:28
He's like, no, just have them, man. That's great.
56:31
And like, I'd seen him around the store. I hadn't
56:36
had the opportunity to get to know him, but I
56:38
was able to hang out with him last night. And
56:39
now I'm friends with Jesus. And every time I
56:42
go there and see him, he'll say, Adam, thanks
56:44
for the deck, man. And all of a sudden, I now
56:46
have this connection with this. with this guy.
56:49
And as I build my deck and put a new, new cool
56:52
cards, I'll be excited to show them and he'll
56:53
be excited to see it. And he'll pick up his deck
56:56
and we'll play each other and they'll kick my
56:58
butt. It'll be awesome. Um, all because like,
57:01
I chose to go to a place with other people to
57:03
talk about it and let people hear what I'm doing
57:07
and I'm interested in and let them be involved
57:10
in, in, in, uh, you know, my interests and me
57:13
be involved in their interests. And, um, yeah
57:16
it's just it's it's really it's a really special
57:19
thing once you start to to make those connections
57:23
in person as people and that's so much richer
57:25
of an experience right to have that connection
57:28
rather than just being online and researching
57:30
it up and going and buying it and having it delivered
57:32
to your house yeah there's nothing wrong with
57:34
that yeah but that just would have been like
57:36
a deck that i bought was delivered as opposed
57:38
to a deck that he says recommended and gave me
57:42
most of like that's yeah there's now a sentimental
57:46
value to it yeah absolutely yeah i love that
57:48
so as we as we bring it back to record you alluded
57:53
to it at the very beginning and i want to take
57:56
us back to that quote because i think it just
57:57
it wraps up so nicely this hero's journey that
58:01
ralph has right where he's talking at the end
58:03
um he's back on the the i think i think he might
58:08
be on the pile of or wherever he's at. It's at
58:11
the very end after the game is played out and
58:13
Felix gets his medal and he's sitting here reflecting
58:16
on it. And he says, turns out I don't need a
58:20
medal to tell me I'm a good guy. Because if that
58:22
little kid likes me, how bad can I be? Time and
58:25
course about when I'll do. And I mean, I guess
58:29
let me get your take on that and then maybe I'll
58:31
add something to it. Yeah, he had quite the journey
58:37
through that movie, which is one reason why I
58:41
love it so much. He saw it. He knew he needed
58:45
something different. And he thought it was one
58:51
thing that was a metal. And it took him breaking
58:56
out of his shell and trying to achieve that thing.
59:00
Even if that wasn't the right thing, at least
59:03
he was trying to achieve something. He was trying
59:05
to learn, trying to grow through his journey.
59:07
He was willing to accept what he initially thought
59:12
was the goal for him. Was it? but he still learned
59:16
and grew and, and, uh, and, uh, yeah, I love
59:22
kind of where, where he brought that back. He
59:23
just, he just kind of wanted some acceptance
59:26
and, and, and, and love. And, and he found that
59:30
in, in an unlikely friend that he met in an unlikely
59:35
place. Um, and at first they weren't friends
59:39
and they became friends. And one thing I really
59:42
love about all that, especially the other movie
59:44
there is He left his home and work environment
59:49
and did something different. He made some friends
59:52
and learned and grew. And that made his home
59:58
and work environment life better. Right. Because
1:00:01
of his growth and his progression and stuff like
1:00:05
that. And so like these different aspects of
1:00:08
our life, they all affect each other. And as
1:00:12
you learn and grow in one, it improves your life
1:00:14
in the other. And I love how there's the reframe
1:00:20
that he has as a result of that, which is he's
1:00:23
a bad guy technically, right? But that's just
1:00:26
the title of what his job is. Because as they
1:00:29
say at the very beginning, right, all the way
1:00:31
back when they foreshadow it, bad anon, right?
1:00:34
You are bad guy, but this did not mean you are
1:00:36
bad guy, right? Okay, but he's not actually a
1:00:40
bad guy because he actually is a good guy. He
1:00:42
is a kind individual. And once he's gone outside
1:00:46
of himself and found that connection and different
1:00:48
space, now suddenly he sees himself different.
1:00:51
And when he does, then when he's in his work
1:00:53
environment, right, doing his job, right, to
1:00:55
be the bad guy, it's a totally different experience
1:00:57
for him, which I do really love. And, you know,
1:01:01
I think for us getting outside of ourselves and
1:01:03
finding that connection somewhere just outside
1:01:06
of, you know, where it's just. work and home
1:01:10
life all the time. Yeah. And we could find that
1:01:12
connection somewhere else. It can really help
1:01:14
us in the different facets of our life. And I
1:01:16
really believe that. I think that's really important
1:01:18
for us. So let me take us to a quick couple of
1:01:22
fun segments. Let's go. Okay. We're going to
1:01:24
do a this or that. Okay. So you ready for this?
1:01:26
You better buckle up. Okay. Dan, you better buckle
1:01:29
up. Okay. Ralph or Felix? Oh, Ralph. I know.
1:01:35
That was probably a softball. We start with the
1:01:37
easy one. All right. Even that's hard. He's actually
1:01:40
a super nice guy. He is a super nice guy. Yeah.
1:01:42
Trying to do the right thing, right? Has some
1:01:45
growth himself throughout the movie. He's got
1:01:47
a lot of pressure on him as well. Totally. He's
1:01:49
the titular character in the game, right? Everybody
1:01:52
looks up to him. He's got a lot of pressure.
1:01:53
So I feel for him as well. Yeah. But yeah, he
1:01:56
does. But Ralph's the best. Yeah. Heroes Duty
1:01:59
or Sugar Rush? Kid Rush is fun. Yeah. Heroes
1:02:07
of Duty is gritty. Yes. Feels like a game of
1:02:09
the high school cap. That's not me. I'm more
1:02:11
of a fun kind of guy. Okay, you're more sugar
1:02:14
rush. I like it. I like it. Vanellope or Calhoun
1:02:20
from Heroes of Duty? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Vanellope.
1:02:26
Maybe for some of the same reasons. Yeah. That
1:02:28
was a good character. Calhoun was a very good
1:02:30
character. She was awesome. Vanellope, though,
1:02:34
is much more endearing. Uh, okay. So in, in general,
1:02:38
not necessarily the game, do you prefer to wreck
1:02:40
it or fix it? Um, I actually very much a fixer,
1:02:46
I think. Okay. Yeah. And a builder of things.
1:02:51
Yeah. And, um, maybe, maybe much the chagrin
1:02:54
of my wife or my family. I was trying to fix
1:02:58
things. Yeah. Um, uh, but I don't, I wonder if
1:03:02
other people would agree. I don't know. Maybe
1:03:04
my. My wife would say, I wreck things on my journey
1:03:09
to fix it. Yeah, it's a little bit to get there.
1:03:12
The last time that we had, my wife and I, we
1:03:16
bought a fixer -upper. And the thing had to be
1:03:20
gutted. Like, it was not in good shape. It was
1:03:23
built in the 70s, and, man, it was rough. And,
1:03:26
you know, you watch these fixer -upper type shows,
1:03:28
and everybody loves Demo Day. I'll be honest,
1:03:32
I didn't love Demo Day. Man, it was really hard.
1:03:36
Like, actually, that demo was pretty tough. I
1:03:38
prefer kind of putting stuff back together, to
1:03:40
be honest. But one of my favorite scenes in Reggae
1:03:42
Ralph is when Felix is trying to break out of
1:03:44
jail. And he hits the bars. The bars get bigger
1:03:48
because he fixes things, right? He's all frustrated.
1:03:51
He's trying to break it, but it won't. It won't.
1:03:53
That's not what his little hammer does, right?
1:03:57
Candy or cake? Oh, candy's such a broad. Such
1:04:04
a broad category. So I don't know. You can just,
1:04:09
cake though. Cake. Yeah, cake. Rhubarb cake.
1:04:14
Rhubarb? Yeah. Wow, you took me for a loop right
1:04:16
there. Yeah, man. Man, you're going way outside
1:04:19
the norm. We're a little sour in there. Okay,
1:04:21
I like it. It's hard. Pac -Man or Mario? I think
1:04:29
I'm more of a Mario guy. More of the world to
1:04:36
explore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely that way
1:04:38
with Mario. Board games or video games? Board
1:04:44
games. I like board games a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
1:04:47
What's your favorite board game? Whoa. I know
1:04:50
that's tough. There's a tough one. For a guy
1:04:51
that owns a game store. I know, but let's just
1:04:54
get one anyway. Maybe you don't have a favorite.
1:04:57
Pandemic. What is it? Pandemic. Pandemic. Okay.
1:05:01
It's a co -op game. It's one of the, there's
1:05:05
lots of co -op games, but it was kind of one
1:05:07
of the early ones that kind of defined. If you
1:05:12
ever ask anybody about co -op games, they'll
1:05:15
always bring up pandemic. It's kind of like the
1:05:18
granddaddy in the genre. And it's really good.
1:05:22
You've got lots of distinct roles that you're
1:05:25
all playing to try to. It's all pre -COVID, you
1:05:28
know. But now that COVID's happened, it's all
1:05:30
a little bit more. But you're traveling across
1:05:33
the world trying to clean up the virus. They
1:05:35
all have different roles. You've got to work
1:05:37
together to survive. you don't a lot of times
1:05:41
and it's it's a good game yeah very interesting
1:05:44
um model trains or legos legos the way you go
1:05:51
small trains are a little too prominent yeah
1:05:54
for us yeah so when you play legos it's not like
1:05:56
the lego movie where he clues them all together
1:05:58
it's like the opposite it's like the kid that
1:06:00
breaks them all yeah and creates what he wants
1:06:02
right yeah you can be right from kids and you
1:06:04
can write it and you can build it exactly right
1:06:06
uh magic or lorcona Um, yeah, no, Royal Carmel
1:06:15
is a very special place in my heart. And I, I
1:06:18
don't have a huge history with, with magic, though
1:06:21
I'm learning to appreciate it more as I, as I'm
1:06:26
thrown more and more into the magic community.
1:06:28
But yeah, Royal Carmel is obviously a special
1:06:30
place in my heart. I like it. Early bird or night
1:06:33
owl? Um, night owl. Yeah. I have an narcolepsy.
1:06:40
Waking up is hard. Ah, yeah. yeah so i'm not
1:06:43
an i'm not gonna remember yeah we didn't talk
1:06:45
much about it yeah yeah so so i i stay up because
1:06:49
i know once i go to sleep man it's gonna be hard
1:06:51
to wake up yeah that totally makes sense um okay
1:06:55
let's hit our rapid fire okay you ready for these
1:06:56
yep favorite disney movie um i really like rick
1:07:03
ralph a lot toy story i have a whole franchise
1:07:09
especially toy story And Monsters, Inc. Can I
1:07:12
have all three of them? Let's do it. I mean,
1:07:14
everything you said so far, I love. Toy Story,
1:07:17
amazing. Monsters, Inc. Honestly, Monsters, Inc.
1:07:20
is so good. And we can't call those Disney now.
1:07:23
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because Disney owns Pixar.
1:07:25
So we'll definitely loop those in. My youngest
1:07:29
daughter, who's six now, she just loves the Monsters,
1:07:33
Inc. ride at California Adventure. Because when
1:07:35
we go there, we absolutely have to go on that
1:07:37
ride. and multiple times and so part of it is
1:07:40
just like the joy that she has that just makes
1:07:43
me love it even more so good favorite disney
1:07:46
song he's got a friend of me yes oh man that
1:07:51
is such a great one too every as soon as you
1:07:54
hear it it just to me first of course thinking
1:07:57
toys also just makes me feel good yeah right
1:08:00
it just like it has that feeling of like friendship
1:08:02
and belonging right like those that we're talking
1:08:04
about like that song is oh it's mine Favorite
1:08:07
Disney princess? Merida was adopted into the
1:08:11
princess. Oh, Merida is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
1:08:14
Yeah, in fact. In fact. Yeah. And Ralph Breaks
1:08:18
the Internet, right? They bring her in, but she's
1:08:20
kind of like the different one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:08:22
Maybe that's why she's my favorite. Probably
1:08:25
right, right? She's a little unorthodox. She's
1:08:28
a great princess. She's terrific. Favorite ride
1:08:32
at Disneyland or any of the Disney parks? I don't
1:08:39
know if it's, like, my favorite. I've got memories
1:08:42
of Splash Mountain. First time I went to Disneyland,
1:08:45
I was, like, in a winter school, and Splash Mountain
1:08:47
was closed, and we couldn't ride it. And I remember,
1:08:50
like, walking away, like, I was, like, so sad.
1:08:53
I'm sure it was a great trip, but I have this
1:08:56
memory of not enjoying. Anyways, finally got
1:08:59
back, and it's now Tiana's Bayou or something
1:09:02
or other. Yeah, Tiana's Bayou. Yeah, it's actually
1:09:04
not a very good ride. I mean, come on, let's
1:09:07
be real. But for some reason, like, I mean, it's
1:09:09
kind of got like a little hot take, bro. I don't
1:09:12
like it. I don't. I think I think it was a miss.
1:09:16
I think I think they could have taken the actual
1:09:19
story from the movie and made an incredible ride.
1:09:22
For some reason, they didn't. They're much smarter
1:09:24
than I am. There must have been something they
1:09:25
figured out or they researched that people wanted
1:09:28
something different. But I'm writing and I'm
1:09:30
just thinking, God, if you just had followed
1:09:32
the movie, this would have been incredible. I
1:09:33
think as an example, like sometimes your dream
1:09:35
or your ideas or thoughts or something is kind
1:09:38
of better than it is right now. And for some
1:09:40
reason, that's the way when I was a kid growing
1:09:42
up, I remember wanting to do it. It's sad that
1:09:44
I couldn't. And so, I don't know. It's kind of
1:09:48
got a funny spot in my memory. Yeah. I really
1:09:52
just miss Splash Mountain now. I wish they hadn't
1:09:55
changed it, but I can't do anything about it
1:09:57
now. Favorite? Lorkana, let's say card. I was
1:10:02
going to say ink color, but I'm going to change
1:10:05
that on the fly. Favorite Lorkana card. Do you
1:10:07
have a favorite card you've got of all your Lorkana
1:10:09
cards? How about we'll kind of go in between
1:10:15
there. There's one of my favorite decks is a
1:10:21
Amethyst Purple and Steel deck. And there's a
1:10:27
Genie card in there that says the... the other
1:10:31
characters can't ready their cards at the beginning
1:10:34
of their turn. Um, and it's, it's, it's just,
1:10:37
and, and, um, Audrey's son actually helped design
1:10:42
that deck for me. And it's super silly and it's
1:10:45
not very good, but when you get the combo off
1:10:47
and you get Elsa and Anna and Elsa's palace as
1:10:51
a location, and then you get the genie out there,
1:10:53
they all work together to make it. So the other
1:10:56
guy just can't, the other person just can't play
1:10:58
the game. You just went. And it's kind of just
1:11:02
this funny little combo. So I think the card
1:11:04
is genie main attraction is kind of a big one.
1:11:07
But there's a lot of Anna Elsa because the idea
1:11:10
is like you're freezing them. So they can't play
1:11:12
their turn. So that's kind of a lot of Elsa.
1:11:14
The Elsa tie -in comes in. Makes sense. What
1:11:18
is the question or questions I should have asked
1:11:23
you? Oh. And the answer might be none. I always
1:11:27
like to tee it up just in case. Okay, good. I
1:11:31
just want to make sure I missed anything. Sometimes
1:11:32
I've missed asking people something they had
1:11:34
in mind about the movie. And so I always want
1:11:36
to give the opportunity in case I missed something.
1:11:38
Okay, fabulous. So the way, Dan, that we like
1:11:42
to end every episode is we like to give people
1:11:45
what we call three actionable takeaways. Jack.
1:11:48
Something that they could put into effect in
1:11:50
their life today or this week. So on this topic
1:11:53
that we have, what are three, actionable takeaways
1:11:56
you could give to our audience one figure out
1:12:00
in your life what what is your third place what
1:12:08
is a place that's not work and not home where
1:12:11
you feel like you can like meet people and express
1:12:15
yourself and make friends um just just uh so
1:12:21
first of all you just reflect figure out what
1:12:24
that is for you and if your answer is scrolling
1:12:30
instagram that's not it this might be an opportunity
1:12:35
to think a little deeper it don't have to be
1:12:38
a game so it's a coffee shop maybe um maybe it's
1:12:43
the barber shop or the hair salon or maybe it's
1:12:47
in line of coffee i think that's where you make
1:12:50
friends i don't know but but just take a moment
1:12:53
to define to yourself like where is that place
1:12:57
that I'm making a connection. And maybe for some
1:13:00
of you, you don't have a good answer. And that
1:13:03
might be a signal that there's a great opportunity
1:13:08
for you to enrich your life by finding that other
1:13:13
place where you can be meeting people, learning
1:13:17
new things and stuff. So that'd be my first ask.
1:13:20
Love it. Number two. Play an old game that you
1:13:24
loved from growing up. Actually. Let me retract
1:13:29
that. It doesn't have to be one that you loved.
1:13:30
But play an old game that you remember from going,
1:13:33
okay, if you didn't love it, maybe it was Monopoly
1:13:35
and you have that experience. But play an old
1:13:38
game. And I actually think what I'm really saying
1:13:42
is, like, have a little nostalgia. Have a little,
1:13:46
take a walk down memory lane. My daughter's been
1:13:50
playing Life recently. I think it's just like
1:13:54
a... I don't know, it's an iPad version. She
1:13:58
plays it on the Fire TV or something. So we got
1:14:01
it on the wall for the baby. And she was like,
1:14:06
should I go to school or not? And then he's out.
1:14:10
So yeah, play an old game. Take a walk down memory
1:14:12
lane. Maybe it's Stratego. Oh, that was a great
1:14:16
game. Yes, I remember Stratego. Stratego, right?
1:14:19
Maybe it's dusting off a class at Black Brisk.
1:14:22
And as you do that, you might realize that some
1:14:25
of those games are still around and there's new
1:14:26
variants of them, those legacy versions of those
1:14:29
games that add another element to gameplay stuff.
1:14:32
Yeah, play an old game. It's chess. And number
1:14:37
three. It's play a new game. Play a new game.
1:14:39
But really what that is, is it's actually about
1:14:42
learning and growing. Like, learn something new.
1:14:49
Find an opportunity to... Maybe it's learning
1:14:54
something new, maybe it's meeting somebody new,
1:14:55
maybe you don't know, but you get to try. So
1:14:58
you start asking your friends or your kids or
1:15:00
your spouse, and they can show you a new game
1:15:04
that they've enjoyed. But it's less about learning
1:15:06
a new game and more about learning something
1:15:09
new just in general and expanding your horizon
1:15:12
and learning something about the people around
1:15:16
you and what they enjoy and spending time with
1:15:19
them. Yeah, I love that. It's fabulous. Well,
1:15:23
Dan, thank you so much for your time. Thanks
1:15:24
for having me. Love talking about Wreck -It Ralph,
1:15:27
Third Spaces, talking about your journey and
1:15:30
things that you've experienced that you've overcome,
1:15:32
and talking about games and how much that can
1:15:36
bring to our lives when we find those spaces
1:15:37
and those places to connect with community and
1:15:40
other people. Really appreciate your time. Yeah,
1:15:41
it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. As
1:15:45
you lead this conversation, remember that, yes,
1:15:48
the past can hurt, and you can either run from
1:15:50
it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning
1:15:54
and finding joy in the journey. See you real
1:15:57
soon.