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Transcript

Silverback Leadership Module 1 · B Shifter

• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the B Shifter podcast.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Today in the studio we have Nick Brunicini and Terry Garrison.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: How are you doing, gentlemen?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I'm fine, he's dandy, we're fine and dandy.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: The comedy duo of fine and dandy.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Well, we want to talk today about the next module and Silverback leadership is coming out, and let's talk about what's in that module and some of the things that gets covered.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: And I think one of the things you know not to sometimes we just kind of gloss over things.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: One of the things you do in that module is start to talk about who our bosses really are, and it's funny.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: We had a comment the other day on our YouTube channel and we were talking a while back that the fire chief actually works for the firefighters and we're there to, and somebody made a comment that we are communists and that the mayor was elected by the people and we better damn well, uh, recognize that we work for the mayor and and we don't work for the firefighters.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I thought that was a funny guy.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: That somebody called us commies, because we believe that uh any any said we're bureaucrats because uh we, and he said we're bureaucrats because we thought that that person, you know, the fire chief, works for the firefighters.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Well, the mayors, many mayors would believe that their job is to reduce services by to save money by reducing services.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: That's what you do in the public safety world.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: It's the only way you're going to save money is to reduce services.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: So I guess, good service.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: This commenter is a communist, then, because if the mayor's running the fire department, pal, good luck.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: That's not what you—we didn't vote for the mayor to run the fire department, we voted for them to manage the city.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: So we thought we were bureaucrats because we focus on the people who are doing the job, who, and they focus on the customer.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always thought that was just the opposite.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I thought bureaucrats focused on bureaucracy and all the behind the scenes shit.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: That makes everything worse.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: If you focus on that, you know other.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I it's it to me.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I think that person it's interesting.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: You know other to me, I think that person it's interesting.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: You'd like to spend about a minute and a half talking to that person before you put their head underwater for the third time?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Just kidding.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, people can disagree with us, that's okay.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: I know we're overreacting.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: People could disagree.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: That's what podcasts are about, right, you people listen and then it creates discussions and people both kind of side with you or people have other opinions.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: But I always but the bureaucrat part.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: To what part?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: That got me, because I always thought bureaucracy was the machine and the mayor is part of the machine and fire chiefs who truly focus on the work, and that's what we're going to talk about today.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the most important critical part.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I just it's wrong on every.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: In fact, we're wasting our time talking about this idiot, to be honest.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Because it really it is.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: The mayor doesn't know anything about the fire department as a general rule.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Know anything about the fire department as a general rule, technically, I mean.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: The mayor doesn't spec the pump or talk about the tactics or customer service.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: They're the mayor, they're the ceremonial chancellor for the city to do whatever it is they do.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk about the work in detail.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: But if you think about what you just said there about the mayor, so a firefighter knows the work.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Nobody knows the work a firefighter does better than a firefighter doing the work.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And then that firefighter promotes up through the system and gets some sort of educational or some sort of formal process and they still come from the place where the work was performed.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: So they know how many and we'll get into this, nick did a great job with the work that we're going to talk about but they know how many firefighters it takes to perform CPR, to do an ALS call, to intervene in a traffic accident, to fight a fire, to fight a large building fire.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: They know all that.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: So they focus on the work.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: So a fire chief's job is to support those people and make sure that they have the training and the support, the equipment, to do the work.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And the mayor is so far away from that.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Because the mayor doesn't.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: First of all, they don't understand the work and they focus on something completely different.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Right, they're focusing on the customer, why the customer is having a fairly good day and is voting for them.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: We focus on the customer when the customer is having a really bad day and their survival of their house and their home and their family, and for them to think that we should be aligned behind the mayor focusing on it, it's just completely backwards.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm going a little deep but we're going to go into this, but it's all backwards from what I think that person's perspective is.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I think the mayor supports the fire chief by the fire chief saying hey, mayor, here's what we need to do the work.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: And then the mayor goes oh okay, let me help you get that, let me help you get more resources so your guys can do the work.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: The mayor supports the fire chief, the fire chief supports the firefighter.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: The firefighters deliver the service.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: That's the work.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: See, the bureaucracy is the opposite of that.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: It's like the fire chief is not available because they're too important and powerful to be bothered, so they're doing other things, which is the bureaucracy.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: That's what they do.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: So the further you get away from the work, the more which is the bureaucracy that's what they do.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: So the further you get away from the work, the more you get with the bureaucracy.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: That's where that lives.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So just visualize a fire chief who has an opportunity to have a meeting with fire captains.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: You know Bruno would do that and I tried to do that when I was a fire chief whenever I could.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: They were scheduled and formal and we had an agenda and a fire chief sits in front of his fire captains and talks about HR issues, finance issues, city issues, because city has a lot of issues.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Man, the HR director and the finance director and the legal department want to take your time and your focus.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: The legal department want to take your time and your focus.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: But if a fire chief sits in front of a captain's meeting and he spends two hours talking about all of that that the mayor think is important, which is important to the fire chief, but it's not the fire chief's primary focus, then they've lost such a great opportunity.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: The best fire chiefs are the ones who sit in front of those fire captains and talk about the work.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Talk about that's what Bruno was so good about.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: He would sit with us and he would say, okay, how are we doing out there?
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: How's the customer?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: What do we need?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: What are we doing, review an incident, all the wonderful things you could talk about the work and I hear fire chiefs all the time gathering people together that are line personnel and talking about something other than the work they do, and that I see you smiling.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So you've seen it too.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Well, you always reminded me to.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: You know, because you said it once.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: You know they really don't care about my city council budget meeting unless they were going to get more personnel or something like that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But but typically, you know, we need to either deflect or refocus what those conversations are.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So it is about the work and not about all the silly stuff that we need to do.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: You know, some of it keeps the wheels running, but it's not really what the focus should be from the troops.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: So, going back to the module, this next module in Silverback Leadership that's coming out, you guys talk about who we work for and who owns the fire department, and in this case it's Mrs Smith.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So Mrs Smith for those of you just tuning in, is the fictitional character that represents all of that.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, represents all of that right.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was it was 96 is the essentials of fire department customer service was published, and what that did is that, like, just even the term fire department customer service didn't exist, as most people would say.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Well, no, we don't deliver customer service, we're almost more like a core.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: We protect the city this way.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: A lot of people, especially firefighters, view the fire department as that we protect the city, the infrastructure and the people, the citizens, all of it.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: That's what our job is.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: That's the work, essentially so, and you're doing the work.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: So every time you go on a call, like you're treating your boss is one way to look at it.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: It's the people that pay the.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: They pay for the fire department.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: The taxpayers pay for that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: That's where all that money comes from.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: The mayor didn't pay for it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: The mayor just is the elected head of the community at that time.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: So in other places it's the fire board or whoever, the authority having jurisdiction.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: There's authority having jurisdiction and see where the caller got it wrong is that the individuals running the authority having jurisdiction work for the city, and the city is Mrs Smith.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: Those are the people that occupy the city.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: They don't work for the water treatment plant or the city building downtown.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: They work for the people that live in that city.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: So he kind of turned that whole concept upside down and he did what the org chart is.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: He put Mrs Smith at the top when he did this and then he put the fire company next.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Bruno did yeah, and that was kind of the key to this book, as he said.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: So they're at the top and then the fire company delivers the service and everything underneath that is a support system for that interaction right there, because that's where it all happens, that's where the work is taking place.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: So all of us become a support system for that company to deliver service to that customer, whatever it is.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: And then that went out and it caused a huge—.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: That probably did as much to change the fire service as anything else he did.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: And he would go into places after that like big fire departments to help them with whatever they were doing, because he was hooked up to all these fire chiefs in these places.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: So, and like the staff of this fire department would think, okay, this is great, he's coming in and we're going to do X, y and Z.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: But they were worried that it was going to get into the Mrs Smith thing.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: So he's doing tactical stuff over on the blue card side with people.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: And once they figured that out, they said, so, you're not here for this customer service stuff, you know.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: And this is in the late 90s, early 2000s.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: And he says, no, we're here to do tactics and strategy.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay, good, you know, they give him a big hug.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: We thought you were going to make us, you know, be nice to everyone.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: And he said, well, you should be.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Well, we're nice all the time, chief, but you know, you know what I mean.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: So anyway, that's what it did, and so it really.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: And he made the statement.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: He says I never really figured out customer service till I figured out Mrs Smith, that's who we work for.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And he says, up to this point, my whole career has been a tactical exercise of.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: This is how you interrupt a fire and then, once you put it out, this is what you do to, you know, restore the property or turn it back over to the owners and occupants and the rest.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: So that really kind of was the start for him in the customer service realm.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: So in the Silverback Leadership Program, the first module was the introduction.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: The second module is going to be the work.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: The third module is going to be the inside-outside customer service, where we really get into.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Mrs Smith, but before we did that, nick did an excellent job of really capturing everything we need to know about the work first.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Of really capturing everything we need to know about the work first, like what are all the logistics, all the legislation, all the history, where we got to where we got as far as the work itself, and then how do you focus on that work moving forward?
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Because all the other modules that we're going to have, whether it's the personal effectiveness or how I could be a better leader, whether it's the performance management how can I move an organization forward whether it's behavioral management how can I take employees and make sure they're functional in their position All the way through that you shouldn't go to that by skipping over the work.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: So we really have to understand the work first and how we got to the work, and then how we do that work, whether we do it in a, because you know you'd look at it and people would say, well, my fire department's different than yours because I have automatic aid and I'm in the Phoenix Valley and there's 28 different agencies that are operating together in an automatic aid system and you're in a volunteer fire department and or a paid fire department or a rural or whatever.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So it's different and what we're going to say is no, it's get back to the basics, as you got to understand the similarities of how you deliver that work first, before you get into the differences.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And I think Nick does a really good job.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I keep talking to Nick, about Nick in this, because Bruno brought us the eight functions of leadership that we're going to talk about throughout the program, but before we could get to that, we came across the idea that we have to do the work first, we have to cover the work, and Bruno really didn't cover the work in any of his.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: He talked about the work but he didn't lay it out the way Nick did in this program and really describe the work and everything it takes to put that work together.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: I think what he was doing when he was putting this together is he just almost said okay, I'm going to default that they understand what the work is.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: This is what we do.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: So really, and it's simple, the work are four things basically.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: Mostly Is you got fire response was first, and then we did EMS response, and then we do some hazmat and TRT.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Those are the four types of service that line firefighters primarily deliver to the customers.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: So that really kind of became the starting point.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: So he figured okay, we all understand this because this is what we do.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: This is why we wear the uniform and the reason we put it first is because it's the most agreed upon thing.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe, at least in our country, is when you see a fire truck you have there's a certain set of images that go you know, service.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: People talk about sacrifice and that's kind of off to the side, but just the essential services that the fire service provides to the communities they protect.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: And see, I think people think highly of firefighters and paramedic and emergency responders because we universally deliver the same service to everybody, right as when you call 911, we don't ask for any information other than what is your problem and where, what's your location right now.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: That's it, we don't.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: They don't have to fill out forms or any of the other stuff or meet our standard of saying, oh, did you vote for the mayor?
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Then we'll send somebody.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: You know that kind of nonsense.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: So what we do is we protect everyone.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: So when people see that they recognize, oh okay, there's somebody that if I'm in trouble they will help me.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: So that's where that kind of comes from.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Well, the effect of that work is on a diverse workforce which we all have.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have different genders, different races, different ethnicities, different religious preferences, all of that Ages, whole thing.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: It's a bag of humanity.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Well, the advantage that the fire service has is the work we provide, and so it's like if you don't agree with this, then you shouldn't be a member of the organization.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Period is we're all here to carry this water.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: This is what we do for a living.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: We're firefighters.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: They dial 911.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: We respond to their emergency and do whatever we can to put their day back together, and once we're done with that, we leave.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at the first module, that's kind of what it said is this is this is what people expect out of government.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: So that becomes, in my mind a unifying force within the fire service is.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, we unifying force within the fire service.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, we're all here for the same common good.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: So it neutralizes all those other differences among us and you think, no, no, no, we can come together to do this and this is how this is going to work now.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: So that becomes a big deal is you have to abide by that set of rules.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: So the other thing in the first module we did were the rules for the organization.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: It was one page.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: It was like 24, 25 rules, 17 you do, 7 you don't.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: It's pretty simple, not a whole lot of confusion there.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: So all of that sets up the front end where we can go and deliver service to a diverse community with a diverse set of problems.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: You know, emergency response is kind of our game.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: So I think when the old man was doing this especially because he was still the fire chief at the time and dealing with people on that is, he just assumed that the work meant the same to all of us.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Now, when I was putting this one to the second module the online piece of it is Vance looked at it and he said something about deployment systems in it and automatic aid.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: And I thought, well, yeah, and I was like working a lot like my dad does.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, everybody knows what automatic aid is.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: He says, no, man, I'm doing a trainer right now and there's like four or five different cities here that touch and none of them go into each other's cities.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: And he says, in fact, of the people in this group, only two have ever touched a tactical worksheet.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: So it's like well, I'm making a bunch of assumptions too.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: So that was the first revision was going back and putting deployment back in and automatic aid.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that happens and we would go off and teach this, teach blue card, the structural firefighting stuff.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: And the comment was, yeah, that's great, phoenix Fire Department, we get it.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys are great, we get it.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: And you're like no, this is how this works and that won't work here.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Well, why won't it?
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: We don't have the resources.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: You do, you know.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: You guys have everything you want.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: And you're like and so you think, hang on, this is where I work.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Draw a square, 500 square miles, right, this is how big it is.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: It's 50 this way and 10 this way is 500.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: That's what it looks like.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: And then inside the box, here's 60 engines, 12 ladders, eight response chiefs.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: That's what I got, it's what I go to work with.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: I'm here right now in this fine state of yours, ground zero.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: Here's the X, here's where we're standing.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: How many resources do you have?
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Every time I've done that, they said at least twice as much and 500 square miles.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: I said okay, oh yeah, and why can't you do it?
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Well, it's different.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: We don't work together.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Well, that's not my fault, work together.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Well, it's just not that easy.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it kind of is.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: If you agree on the work, you can work together.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: That's the first thing is that we're all firefighters together.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Now a paramedic can go be a paramedic in Los Angeles, in Wichita, kansas, hollywood, florida, chicago, illinois.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: They could probably go to any fire truck, find the EMS gear and, within 10 minutes, figure out how to be a paramedic in that city.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Right, right, put them at the scene of a fire.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Can they figure it out?
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: No, it's all different.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: See, because see, and that's where we're talking about the work and training people to do the work.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: So we said now and this is where we get into like certification based training programs and why those are so effective.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Well, all of us were trained in certification based training when we went through EMS training, when we went through hazmat training, when we went through TRT training, because those are all standardized curriculums to do a standardized set of things that we call the work.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: We don't have that for structural firefighting.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: There's no.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: It's all based off standards but there's no certification in any part of structural firefighting.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, the 1001, you could certify it and you think you don't have to be certified, in that there's no CE to be a firefighter.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: That was taken out of the program early on.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: That was a political decision.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like this OSHA thing.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: You're seeing A lot of activity around OSHA wants to change a word in OSHA legislation.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: They want to go from brigade to department and it's completely melting everybody down.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: They say, well, we can't have a fire department.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Then, well, yeah, there's standards and requirements to run in a fire department.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: If you can't meet those, maybe you should quit calling yourself a fire department.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And if they're hard to get those, whatever that training is, there's avenues to provide that to all the members.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: So I think a lot of it is the fire service.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Well, the old man used to say it there's two things.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Firefighters hate the current way it is and change.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: So that's your choice, you can.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: You got to change it to make it work better.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the whole foundation of everything we do here.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: You know, and you go back to that.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I love the fact you started with that comment because it surprises with it, but it's great to go back to.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: because when we say that we work for the firefighters, we're not saying the firefighters as a group control us.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: What we say is we support the firefighters.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And if you focus on the work and you identify what the work looks like and then you have a guy in a firefighter position not doing the work or not meeting the standards, then you hold that person accountable, right, you pull them out of the system before they hurt themselves or kill somebody else or mistreat a customer.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: So when we say we work for the firefighters, we work for the firefighters in a support way, to where we allow the leaders, the company officers, to hold the members accountable too, to where the battalion chiefs support the companies and hold companies accountable, and then that works up through the system.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So sometimes when you say if you don't understand that we say it almost every time, but kindness isn't weakness, right.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: So when you support people and you say I work for you, that means you're holding them accountable to their job that they need to do.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And if a fire chief doesn't understand the work like a mayor really does not, a mayor does not understand and they shouldn't have to understand the work of a firefighter on the scene of a company, or they shouldn't have to understand what it takes for an effective fire response force for a building fire.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: They could, they don't, they don't need to do that.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: So, um, I think that once again, I I'm so, I disagree with that person so strongly.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: But I want to kind of describe why I disagree with the mother and just get pissed at him.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And you know, ignore, ignore them.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: But because there's probably other people out there.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: If there's one person that thinks that, there's probably a few more that thinks that too.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: And the best fire chiefs and Bruno used to say it here, and this is the back end of that the best fire chiefs are validated by their firefighters, not by their boss, not by the mayor.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: The mayor doesn't decide whether I'm a good fire chief.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: The mayor knows that I stay in budget and he doesn't see the fire department in the news doing stupid stuff and he doesn't have to go to firefighter funerals.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: He likes his fire chief.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: When that happens, those three things take place Money, safety, customer service.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Those are the biggies, and I just think that if you just manage those things, but if you focus on the work, then you can hold those people, people that I have had to fire.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: In fire departments that I've been the fire chief of, they get fired because they're not doing the work properly, they're being unsafe or they're being unkind to the customer or they do something really goofy on their days off right, which impacts the reputation of the fire department and once the rep really Nick said it when people see a fire engine going down the road, our reputation is going with every company that's out there traveling down the road and as fire chiefs we need to keep that reputation as important as we possibly can.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Well, what made that reputation are the core services we provide to the community.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: And Vance.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: To kind of get back to your main point of this thing is the work.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: The work when you look at it and that's kind of what this program starts to tear apart, especially moving forward in the thing is you have core services, so like for fire.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Well, core services for fire when you're a recruit firefighter that's going through the academy and then passing all your evaluations.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: As I understand how to hook up to a hydrant, I know how to advance an attack line, I know how to put up a 16 foot extension ladder, I understand how to hook up to a hydrant, I know how to advance an attack line, I know how to put up a 16-foot extension ladder, I know how to don my SCBA and all my protective gear in a certain length of time.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Those are all core services, just the regular occupational stuff that you have to do basically.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Then the other part of that is the added value piece.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: So what we are is we're a competent workforce that can show up and perform the actual labor of doing fire attack, of doing EMS, of first responder stuff.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: De-escalate is what I've kind of fallen onto is the fire service shows up to de-escalate bad things that are happening.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Well, within that, so the better you are at your work, the more competent, the more successful you are in it.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: So the example that we used at our symposium we just did in Cincinnati, we were talking about the work Well, very early in our careers it was probably about 1985-ish we took over the emergency ambulance system in the city of Phoenix and the way that happened is we're doing EMS and the fire department had been doing EMS up to that point, probably for eight to 10 years, right, and one of the things that we were having a problem with was emergency transportation times.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: So you had a set of times where you had to get to the scene within certain benchmarks.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: You know four to six minutes first.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: One seconds count that whole thing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: You know four to six minutes first one seconds count that whole thing.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: The essential services Well, it wasn't uncommon for you to have to wait 10, 15 minutes or more for an ambulance and at certain times and in certain parts of the city you were not going to get an ambulance and basically the system was is.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: You had about half a dozen or so private ambulance companies and they made their money.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Their work was doing inter-facility transports.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: That's what they went into.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Business, that's their business model is I can transport this many patients from this hospital to this hospital or medical facility to medical facility, and this is how much this will make.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Emergencies was just extra.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: That represented less than five to 10% of their total overall activity.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Well, what they would tell you is if you can't get a pizza delivered, then you can't get an ambo because we're not going to get paid.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: And we do this.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: This is a business.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: This is why we went into this business.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: We thought, well, we went into this business to take sick people and injured people to the hospital and we need you to show up in less than we're wearing crews out and having to rehab them doing CPR.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: You know we're running out of oxygen on the scene and so now we're having to transport them ourselves.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: So this became an issue.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Well, these private ambulance companies was like packed sand, as we have a round-robin rotation basis that your dispatch center processes every time you request an ambulance.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: So it goes from ambulance company one to ambulance company two to three to four to five to six, and then it starts at one again and we each get equal opportunities at the work.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: That's what it is is.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: We have to divide the work equally so it's fair for all of us.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Well, there wasn't one ambulance company that serviced the 500 square mile city, there were six.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: So they're in certain parts of town.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: Well, if I'm all the way across town and it's rush hour, you can finish dinner before you're going to get that ambulance.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: There for emergency transportation is the fire department went to the authority having jurisdiction, which included the state of Arizona, because they certify everybody in the AMBO world and said we want to take the ambulances over.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Well, that was a political move at that point, because now you have private enterprise screaming that oh, the government's taking over and it's going to make it worse and they're going to be bureaucratic.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: You think, okay, watch this pal, so we take it over, right.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: So huge political bloodbath to do it.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But they went away and everybody was happy on our end.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: We had a party afterwards Fire department takes over ambulance service.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Immediately, the response times cut them in half, basically Slashed them drastically.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: The one time the regulators came back and it was in the first couple months they said we got an issue with you.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: What is it?
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: You're not charging enough for an AMBO ride.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Fire chief comes back.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: He says yeah, I want to get to the point where I'm not charging at all, it's whatever insurance pays.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: And they said says yeah, I want to get to the point where I'm not charging at all, it's whatever insurance pays.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: And they said no pal, you got to charge more.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: He says what's the minimum?
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: What's the minimum I can charge?
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: They gave him an amount for ALS, bls.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: That's the amount.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Then the other thing we started doing is we started collecting.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: So we would bill insurance companies.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: We took the collection rate.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: They kept saying in public documents it's under 50% and you know that's why it's so bad.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: A month later it's 80%.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: We're collecting over 80% revenue back from the AMBO rides.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Ambo takes less than half the time it used to take.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: So it improved the service for a cheaper cost.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Less than half the time it used to take, so it improved the service for a cheaper cost.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: The employees went from working private AMBO companies to working for like an actual employer who valued them as a member of the organization.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: They weren't just some meat hauling other meat to the hospital so the boss could make money right.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: So if you look at private ambulance employment versus fire department, it was as disruptive in an employment benefit package as the response times were more than doubled for the employee Got a pension, sick leave, vacation, a full-blown career.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: You could start off working on the AMBOs and end up as the fire chief one day.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Current fire chief probably spent three or four years working on an AMBO, improved the system drastically.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: So we were able to do that because we were very good at core services.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: And that's where the fire chief said we need to improve on added value.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: And that's where the customer service book came from.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Well, and he said you know, if the fire chief makes it a priority, it's going to become a priority in the organization.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: It can't help but to, because I support the most powerful person in the fire department wants something to happen and that's nothing could be truer.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: I've watched it for 20 years with blue card fire chiefs and advocate it's going to work if they're, if they don't care one way or another, it's.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I work for the mayor, I don't care, whatever you do Well good luck, flip a coin, you know, if you break down this whole.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Remember this is a leadership program, right?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: So we start with the work.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: And Nick described how that work evolves and and how it impacts the customer.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: And Nick described how that work evolves and how it impacts the customer.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: If you just look at that core service and added value and you think about leaders and the two things that leaders should be able to focus on and categorize themselves is competency and character Right.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Are they competent?
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Are they capable to do the job we talk about, you know?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Do they have the knowledge to be in the position that they're in?
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Do they have the competence to act out what they need to do every day?
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And do they have the character, along the way, to treat people in a way that makes those people feel like, hey, I want to follow that person, that is a good leader.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: So, if you just break this down, moving forward and you think about that that's why we start with the work is because you've got to get the competency piece right on the front end.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: You've got to understand what is the work that we have to do that creates competencies.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And we describe that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Nick describes that very well and we have some videos from Bruno that you're going to see where he describes that, just so basically, and it works out perfect.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: And then you add that character piece on that be nice piece to the back end of it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: You use that out in the field being nice to Mrs Smith, fire Captain Smith is nice to Firefighter Smith, and it just kind of works all the way up.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I think that is going to be.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be too simplistic with it, but it really is pretty simple If you just focus on that that's what it is.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: It's in this module.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: In the video of AVB talking, he's talking about the work and he joined the, the fire department during a time where he says we did not have management systems to improve what we were doing.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: They just simply didn't exist.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: And so that was his takeaway as a young firefighter is that if we want to improve this, we need to create a system that trains us all and how to do it right.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Create a system that trains us all and how to do it right.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: And then, as we go along and we're all trained is we're going to run into situations where the system didn't work and we need to be able to adjust it for these eventualities we're going to get with these different kind of tactics and things, and he uses examples throughout his career.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: So he took a leadership role early on and said I'm going to have to figure out how to develop the systems to train the firefighters and how to deliver this form of labor.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: And he says it's even more vital for us because I'm operating in a way now for an organization that may very well end up killing me as part of doing the job.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: See, and we're not beating up mayors or authorities having jurisdictions.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: They're all fine people and they got their own job to do.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: But if you think the mayor is going to know what to do with somebody that has trigeminy or the lidocaine isn't there.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: Or the tactics that they put water on and it didn't go out, the mayor doesn't know.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: They're not supposed to.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: That's why they hire a fire chief.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: No, I remember in Houston I say this before when I was in Houston as the mayor, I went into her office the very first day and I would see her about once a month for about a half an hour and she would say how's it going, chief?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And I said it's going fine.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: She goes, you own it, you own it, chief.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but every other day she was talking about pension reform and what is she?
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: How she wants to manage all of that, because she's managing the entire city and the pension issue with the firefighter.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: And I said, mayor, I don't own that, that is not my deal, I'm not getting involved of any of that.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And she was kind enough to keep me out of all of that because I had my job, she had her job, and that's what I mean by the mayor.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: The mayor, they have their own job.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Now-.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Well, and what I find is, once we educate the mayor on what it is we're doing, usually you have no further problems.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: They see sometimes the public facing things that we do.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, we're barbecuing behind the station, we're playing racquetball or now pickleball, that's what they see.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: But then when we put them in gear and kudos to the union for doing their fire ops 101, that totally educates the elected officials it's like, wow, this gear is heavy, it's confining.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: They're going into these dark, hot spaces to do their job and you know the more that they do that stuff and they understand just how difficult the job is.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Then they usually give us the space we need.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: It's the elected officials that really the administration or the firefighters haven't taken the time to educate them on what the work actually is See, and that is the fire chief's job.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: That would have come under the fire chief's work.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: And we're not saying the mayor is the supervisor, or the city council or whoever it is.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: The fire chief has a boss.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Those people are their boss, there's no doubt.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So we, kathy Eaton, many years ago at ASU taught a class and I was a battalion chief and I'll never forget and I said it on here before.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: But there's, she explains cities very well to all of us and she says when you're managing a city the mayor, the city manager, the city council there's different departments.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: You've got finance, you've got HR.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: There's different departments.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: You got finance, you got HR, you got legal, you got police, you got fire, public works.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: There's consumer departments and there's conserver departments.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: And a fire department is a consumer department, like the police department.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot of money to run that department.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot of people.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot of equipment.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Legal, hr and finance are conservators.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: They're always looking at the bottom line and that's their job is to make sure that everything matches up on the entire city.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Fire chief needs to take their budget, be a good steward of the city, use their budget in a way that makes sense.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: But we're always competing as a city.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: That was one thing I had to learn.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Uh, it took me a while to learn because I felt like I became more of an adversary of finance and legal and hr.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Later, when I was in a larger system.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I said, no, I actually need there, I need the help of hr.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: So when I manage this disciplinary issue, I do it in a corrective, progressive, lawful kind of way.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: That makes sense, and I may need them to help me with the process.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I need legal to help me with the process.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: So we're all on the same team but we have different perspectives.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like offense and defense in football.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Right, so we all work together.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: But when you can take a finance director, a mayor, the city attorney, whoever, and put them in fire gear and show them what it takes to do a specific set of tasks, let them ride along with you.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, there's so much bonus in that, there's so much benefit in that so not just the mayor, but anybody within that system that you feel like I remember battling a finance director and an HR director and I said, hey, do you know what we do?
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we know what the fire department does.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: No, you don't.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't say that, I just thought that and I took them out.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: We spent a weekend and they were like, oh, what do?
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: you need.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: It was incredible.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: What do you need?
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: We get it now.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: What do you need?
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: This year, the Department of Labor released a study, an occupational study, of the different jobs and the physical requirements of those jobs.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Basically is how strong do you have to be to do certain things?
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: And they looked at like 500 different occupations.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: The number one job for physical demands was firefighter period and it wasn't even close.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: It was by 25%.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Above everything else, firefighter, you have to carry the heaviest weight.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: You have to move at the furthest distance.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: You're operating in the most hostile place.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: You have a more critical need to be able to hear at a distance, Just all of it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: So all of that just simply validates what we have to do to train and prepare our members to deliver the core services.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: And there's no warm-up sets.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: No, there isn't.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Boom, you're gone.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and see like you talk about finance and then you got legal and HR, excuse me.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: They're no different than the fire department.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: They consume as much as we do.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: It's their staff, to whatever level they need to be staffed to do their jobs.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Our job is just harder to do than theirs, not harder.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: It's more challenging to deliver our service in an effective way than them Because we have to service the whole community.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: So you have to build fire stations where you can get around everywhere within five or six minutes to access people, to deliver essential services to them.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: We're consumers, because it takes four people, a $1 million piece of apparatus, a place to houses, all the other equipment and the HR people.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: It just is a critical job.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: But they sit at a desk, they use a computer.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Which is all paid for.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: It's just the tools they use.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: There's seven of them that do it, so we're bigger consumers just because it takes more to do the work.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Back to the work.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: It takes more people, more equipment, because we go to where the customer is.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Now, if they think about that, we go to where the customer is.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Now, if they think about that, we go to where the customer is to do our work.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: That's very costly.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: That's very costly, right, yeah.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: And then when you pick up that customer and take them to the hospital, like you said, when we own the pre-hospital care system, from dispatch all the way to delivery at the hospital, we are the most effective, but it takes a lot of resources to do that work, yeah.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And what most city managers and mayors are finding out is when I own the entire system, including the transportation piece, because most of them like that now, because now that's some money coming back.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: So what's the number that we used?
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: It was their numbers, it's over $75 million they're going to make last year or this year here in Phoenix off the AMBOs, the emergency ambulance system, and that's net After we pay salaries and everything.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: That's what we're bringing back in.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Well, now, man, you're offsetting 25%, 35% of your budget when you do that.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Now Alan Brutusini when he was the fire chief in the 90s, late 90s, early 2000s, after customer service was written and you know, so we're on this journey is he put two PAs in service, one at the airport and one wherever else.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: It was, I don't remember at the time and they were there for about a year 12 to 18 months, something like that and their job was going to be to make house calls during the day, so like if somebody needed stitches or they needed their prescription filled or anything else, and that was too far advanced as the city could not wrap their head around that.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: But if you look at it today and if they said crazy, fire chief, you build that system out making medical house calls for the citizens in our community, if they would have kept with it, there would be at least 12 of those right now.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: There'd be at least one in every battalion and they would be.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: They would be staffed all the time and they would be busy.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: They would work at least 12-hour shifts going in delivering service and they would be billing back for it the insurance companies, medicare and everybody else, and that would put what we collect from ambulance transport to shame.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: You would not be a consumer anymore, you would be making money.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: In fact, if you privatize that, well, you wouldn't want to do that because it would screw it up.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: That's what happens is they say, oh, that's what the health insurance industry did, we're going to privatize it and they have to pay us first.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: How's that help my health care.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Well, we're seeing this right now throughout the United States.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: We're back on the swing where the fire department is taking over the ambulance, Because I think for a long time we saw private companies, some big, large, you know Laidlaw and AMR and all these publicly traded companies really expanded a lot in the early 2000s.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: They didn't want to give up the money.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but now they're failing.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Their response times are lacking.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: We're seeing the same thing happen, so I just returned.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: One of the cool things is being able to get out and learn what other fire departments are doing.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: This fire department's stepping into the transportation game.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying this as a sidebar.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying this as a sidebar, but they are going to pay their people money extra for every transport, to the tune of $100 each per crew member that does a transport during their shift.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: So if you did eight transports, $800 extra.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: So they're passing that cost on to the customer.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know how they're doing it.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what they're passing that cost on to the customer.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know how they're doing it.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what they're.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: No, if I was representing it, I'd say we're just cutting it out of the amount you pay and that's where it goes.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: The customer doesn't pay any extra.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: This is just the way we divide the money.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: That would be the way to do it.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: You wouldn't want to pass that on to that man that's going to be a tough one, because I thought I supervised an ambo for about 10 years as a company officer and I thought, if, if we could do a deal where it would turn it on its head because firefighters did not join the fire department to work on an ambulance, that's a whole different thing you got and we ain't got time to talk about that today, but that would have addressed it heavily.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: It is if, if our ambo crew was getting money for transports, they'd be stealing them from other AMBO companies.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: So it's like don't call us, call us.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Well, see, now we're working on our own individual greed to get this going right.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: We don't have any sign-off sheets, so no one gets signed off today.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Everybody does, so no one gets signed off today.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Everybody does but that bait and switch process of you go through the academy and all you're going to do is fight fires and be a hero.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: And then you go back out into the field and you're riding an ambulance company for five or six years.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: That's tough.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: You can't support a fire department with that.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: You've got to be honest with employees on the front end and say hey, you're coming in as an EMS, you're going to be trained as a firefighter, you're going to get all your equipment, but you're going to go on a lot of EMS calls.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: And then there's some departments you may not get off an ambulance until you promote to another position.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's tough, man so that's the work right.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: You got to talk about the work right on the front end and what the work really looks.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: You can't lie about the work.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: If we had to do it over again, it would have been better to restructure it and say we hire firefighters from the AMBO ranks.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: So if you're going to get hired during our tenure in Phoenix, you're going to get hired as an ambulance attendant driver.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: First You're going to do that and then we're going to take from your and you would probably hire every one of them eventually, that's a triple A, huh, and just say, come on in.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it, you're triple A.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't put SCBAs on AMBOs, I wouldn't give them turnouts, they created too many problems, we'd just freelance in another space.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: And then it becomes too.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: Then other stuff, and then it becomes too.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: Then in other cities it's like, well, no, just put them all on AMBOS, put SCBAs on them, we don't what's wrong with that.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: And you're like, no, we're not, we're a fire department who does emergency transportation.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not an ambulance company that does fire suppression.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Well, what we see, too, happen a lot is they'll take a four person engine company and put two on the ambulance.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: So then you really have a two person engine company and put two on the ambulance.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: So then you really have a two-person engine company and two on the ambulance.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, be careful with that.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: No, you're fracturing the crew, that's just.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Cooks aren't waiting on tables.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody has a specific role and responsibility within the organization and you start meshing those together or layering them or spreading them too thin, you're going to get somebody hurt is what's going to happen.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: It's because when you need that two-person, those other two people, and they're not there and you get firefighters hurt.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: That's why you go back to the work and you have those discussions about all the things we're going to talk about the NFPA standards, how many firefighters it takes to actually get the job done, and it's been lined out in the EMS and it's lined out in fire.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: If a fire chief would use that to have discussions with his authority, I mean it would make so much sense.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: It's lined out.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't say you have to.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: It says it's standard.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wouldn't you want to meet the standard?
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: The standards are based on firefighter safety.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Like Bruno used to say, what's going to be the cost that may be expensive to you?
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: You think what's going to be the cost of a funeral and all the other things that takes place after you lose a firefighter or some citizens.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: So you need to pay that up front.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: You need to describe.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Well, it's no different than having people go through HR classes to stop doing stupid stuff, that's it.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, we're going to send you this class on how to be nice to each other.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Well, that's stupid.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Why do I have to do that?
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Well, because last year over a billion dollars was paid out of lawsuits of people not being nice to other employees.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: That's why we're doing it.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: So yeah, To kind of follow up on Mr.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: You know you work for the mayor and he's the elected official, or she?
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: or whoever.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: That's true, we're not letting you go.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: No, I'm glad you did.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: Because the reason we were able to take the ambos over is because they took the mayor over.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: So the union and the mayor were together.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: They were best friends.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: That's how that occurred.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I guess he's half right that way.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: But before we go today, but to finish up this conversation on this new module, you guys talk a little bit about the task level requirements of firefighters.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: So let's shift gears from the AHJ and the mayor to talking about the firefighters and the requirements that we have on the task level, both physically and mentally.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And how do we hash all of that out?
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: How do we prepare, how do we get the right people in the right seats?
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: How does that work and really, how does that equate to the work that we need to do?
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: When I got hired in 1980, in fact, all of us got a little bit earlier, vance was a little bit later but one of the things you had to do is you took some kind of a written test and then a physical test and then there's an interview piece.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Well, the physical test is really kind of you could discriminate against people certain ways, right in the written a certain way, and then having the physical a certain way, and say, okay, we're going to make the physical so hard that certain people can't pass it.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: And there was a lot of that going on because, like in 1980, there was a lot of females starting to have interest in becoming firefighters, so there was a lot of traditional places oh, we can't have that, and they would change the physical agility test.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: So that's the way that got played out, all that harassment early on in my career.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: And what happened is in the early 80s, a group of people got together it was the IFF, the I-Chiefs, the NFPA, a bunch of health care professionals and fitness people, and they met it was the 10 biggest cities, professionals and fitness people and they met.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: It was the 10 biggest cities, metro cities, and they had a meeting in everybody's city.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: And that's where the CPAT test came from the candidates physical abilities test, agility or ability, ability, abilities test, and so once that group put that together is all the lawsuits went away because it became a validated physical entrance exam for the firefighter position, and it was.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: You didn't have to make it harder because it's already.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: We talked about it earlier.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: It's the hardest physical occupation there is is to be a firefighter and you know who liked that the best of all, that is, the females that were qualified by passing that test.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: It was just fair.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying that because up until then there was a lot of subjectivity to it and then that became the standard and I would talk to females I did in Houston and other places and they were so happy it's like no, I'm capable of doing this job because I passed this.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Because there were some departments back then they would hire china I don't think it was a quota, but they were trying to get there is a soft quota right trying to get more females and then there'd be a point in time where a female or a person couldn't do their job and then everybody else was held accountable.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: There you go, You're like her.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not, I'm qualified.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: So once the qualifications came out and this is a standard, this is the standard it was better for everybody across the board because everybody within the department that was hired met that standard.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was perfect, and the candidates who had typically been discriminated against, like you say, could feel better because they could say well, no, there was like 20 percent of the males couldn't pass it and I passed it.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: I am more qualified to be a firefighter than they are.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, you are.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: You are one.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Now, when I went to Houston, the mayor says I want more female firefighters.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I said OK, we'll try to increase our recruitment.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: We'll go where the female athletes hang out or people that have the capability or the mindset that want to be firefighters.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I said but, mayor, I you don't want me to lower the standards to hire more.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying do that.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: She goes.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: No, the standards are the standard because you don't want to hire somebody and then set them up for failure or to get hurt or to get killed, right?
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: No, she says I want you to go out and try to recruit people that are qualified to meet the standards so we can have a more diverse fire fire department.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I'm all for that, I'll help do that, but I'm not going to lower the standards to hire anybody regardless.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we used to tell people who are testing us that all you have to do is you pass the written, you pass the physical, and then they pick you off the oral at that point, because they see everybody.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, you're all.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: All the grass is the same heights now, and so we're going to pick the most qualified based on your personality, I guess.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: So that's the core piece, right?
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: So you ask about the standards.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: That's the core piece.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: To become a firefighter that would be it.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: The interview process is where you kind of get into that added value when you ask some questions and see how people treat each other.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: That's an excellent point.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: That really is where you're picking added values in the interview, and.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Bruna Senior Culture is what you're going for.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Maybe it came out last week.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: No, tomorrow Okay.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: I think it's Bruno would say about some leaders too much college and not enough kindergarten Right.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: So they have all this.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: You know pomp and circumstance, but they don't know how to treat people.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: They can't share, they can't communicate, they can't be nice.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: You've got to play nice as a leader too, right?
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Don't lower your standards.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: The most unkind thing you can do is accept low performance, unacceptable performance.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: That's not a nice thing to do.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Hold people accountable and support them.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And not enough kindergarten, too much college, and I love that that will be in that tomorrow, I think.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: One of the best timeless tactical truths is do not expect gratitude for substandard.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: Accepting substandard performance Accepting substandard yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you know, you think, okay, I overlooked you.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Guys suck, now you should love me, and they're like no, you suck too, we all suck.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: You're like yeah, you should love me, and they're like no, you suck too, we all suck.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: You're like, yeah, you should do your jobs maybe.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: So that's the standard piece.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: There has to be some standards, but it's got to be based on the work, and that's what the CPAT did.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: It based it on the work Because I had never run two miles at a fire and if you do that within a certain time frame, it's like then we parked really that that was a poor park.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: There was a department that was still making people throw a wood ladder by themselves because they knew that you needed a certain amount of upper body strength to do it and it was leaving out 50% of the population.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: We had to jump over a wall when I was hired in 77.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Me too.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Did you win over that wall?
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did the same when you did?
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you did.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: You go over, come on.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: How often does that happen?
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'd get yeah.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: I did the same one.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: You did yeah.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: You did yeah.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: You go over.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: How often does that happen?
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'd get your 360.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah you know Katie was when she was taking cop test, old revolver and you had to do 50 trigger pulls.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Wow, and you're left and you're offhand.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Whoa.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: She passed it with the right and they said do it in the left.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: She did like 45.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: They said sorry, you flunked.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: She says can you believe it?
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: I said yeah, they don't want girls.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: How many girls are on their police department?
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: She says none.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: I said yeah, it's like one of the 20 biggest cities in the country.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: And they have.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: No, that's why I said intelligence.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Anyway, you want to do this.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Well, here, here's a somebody who wants to be a baseball pitcher in the big leagues, and okay throw with your left hand now, yeah, yeah, exactly, I can't do that, you don't get the job yeah, okay there you go.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: You know that's one of the things that's making these better is the review is yeah, I send it out to half a dozen and they come back and they say now I was teaching this class, they were having trouble with these concepts.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, this is, I'm stuck at 1975 again.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: So I mean we're going to fill them out.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: The first one was pretty good.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: I think the second one will go, probably just as well.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: All right, there it is Module two of Silverback Leadership.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: It'll be out the first part of 2025, january First week or two.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: We got a bunch of plans to hopefully we're launching the redesign of the landing page and we got other stuff coming out in the first part of the year.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I like the way the modules are coming out, because you set it up with a series on Articulate and then you set it up where you go through the modules and then there's a couple places in there where you actually take a test.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: It's interactive somewhat.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: There's some videos of Bruno and some nice graphics.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: It's a good hour.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: You can spend a good 45 minutes to an hour going through it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: No more than that If you spend more time than that.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: I don't think you can.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: We're not quite done with it yet.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: We're putting case studies in the back end of it.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: That's one of the reasons we did the AMBO thing here is you'll see more of that in the work module and that was really the thing is, if the fire department is set up to keep their members trained this is the other comment I was going to make to keep their members trained.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: So the other comment I was going to make like the after action review process, the performance management model, all of that is for continuous improvement.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: It's just to make it better and better just for the rest of the time, so nothing's ever finished or done.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: It just isn't, because we're always improving things.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: The very last function is managing boundaries.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: When you go through the entire leadership program and it's my favorite part when I was looking through that regarding Bruno, because it made me smile while I was going through it, because he describes how you have, we went through all these modules how to set up a successful organization, how to be a successful leader, and then the very last one is you have to have boundary managers.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: So, but you got to set the boundaries before you know where those people are stepping outside.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: So when employees or the organization starts moving out of those boundaries that you set up the culture of the organization, then he actually talks about man, man, boundary managers.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's like sheepdogs.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: It's yeah almost, and it would just be getting rogue people back in.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: It just becomes the aberrant knuckleheads that you need to slap back in and that's when you kind of know you got a pretty successful organization.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: When you're dealing with stuff uh, not every day the same thing over, but you're just dealing with like he did what when, and it's easy to identify that that person is a knucklehead and you can kind of deal with that person well you used to hear people say well, you can get away with anything, here you do anything and there you know you're gonna, you'll be fine and it's so like the longer that went on and then more and more people would.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: You'd be having those conversations and the smarter ones would say, no, that's not true.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: And if you look at it, we've lost.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: And they would start naming names.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: They said these six people don't work here anymore.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: Over the last six months, Once a month we lost one of these lifetime members.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: They selfed out with their behavior.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: And every one of them was canned by a supervisor because they wanted to be.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: They did a set of things and they tried and they said, no, you've got to stop that, it's just the way it works.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Like Garrison Tuck, you have to have the BC's got to be sheepdogs a little bit to keep the herd and the reason that people thought that everyone gets away with murder is because there's no public executions right Like it just gets taken care of, the person goes away.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: We don't sit and talk about it because we just don't do it like that, that's it.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: Hey, man, once I had I was a BC Phone rings.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: It's cops Hi, this is yeah, you manage the west side.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they said you manage the west side, yeah, uh-huh.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: I said you got this guy.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: I said yeah, he's a firefighter on my shift.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: He says well, we need to talk to him.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: I said well, oddly enough, he ain't at work today.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: He says yeah, we know he ain't at work.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Where is he?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I need him, we're going to arrest him.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: I said, buddy, I'm only responsible.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: He's on duty, good luck.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: So I call his on duty number.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: No answer.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: So I talked to a buddy of his.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: He says gives me a number.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: He says call this number, it's his mom, talk to his mom he said hey, I need to talk to.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: She says why?
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: I said because the police are looking for him.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: He needs to call me right now.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: It's very important.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: Ten minutes later he calls.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: I said hey, man, they're after you.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: I knew why.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: And this guy I had dealt with him four or five other times and he's a firefighter.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: I shouldn't deal with him ever.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: And so I'm like you have come to the end and he's done some severely illegal things on his days off Said best thing for you, you got your 20.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: He says yeah, I'm going to go another four or five.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: I said you're going to go to jail?
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: I said and if you retire today, that's going to make it really hard to take your pension away from you.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: Five o'clock he was gone.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: That was it.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: We never saw him again and I think he went to jail later on With a pension Exactly.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: Well, I was trained to do my job as a BC.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: And I had extra classes before I joined the fire department, so I'd do more things about certain topics.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: But that was—.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: That steady income probably killed him later with whatever bad habits were it really did.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was—yeah, he had stole all the kiddie money and you thought well, that's—.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: But it's always nice when they arrest them, and this was my favorite headline in the newspaper former blank blank firefighter former blank blank firefighter, if I can make it a former.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: When they were arrested, I felt like I did my job as a fire chief and we did our job as administration.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: Well, you watch those things.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: When it says former, they don't get into the old employer.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: They may look for old workmates who knew them, but they're not doing slamming your face interviews with the fire chief, trying to catch them.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: You can't release it Versus a full-blown investigation.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: There's some public discovery in that.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: So once you get into the investigation, but even then they don't come to the fire chief and say they may say this is a former, former.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, we have no former.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're done.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, yeah, so that was.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: What do you got?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: You guys want to do a Timeless Tactical Truth?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: We may as well, jv.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: All right, we're here.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Timeless Tactical Truth from Alan Brunicini, the ace of hearts today Ace of hearts, and this one says the IC must avoid playing personal or political games and must avoid constantly self-marketing when it comes to taking credit.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: The IC must avoid playing personal or political games and must avoid constantly marketing when it comes to taking credit.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's funny, the leader right.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: Anybody within a position of authority ought to not do that either one of those things, right?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: You see people, I don't know when an IC, I guess, when would an IC do it, nick, and maybe we're just.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Would it take credit?
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Or market or play games Now.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: I see them play games by assigning their company.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: This is my buddy I'm going to assign him yeah, that piece of it, or getting even with people.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: We're going to teach you what overhaul is and how that's going to make you better, but taking credit, it would just I don't know the A-shift guys.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: Look what I did.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: I did this and this and this and this.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Bruno talked about front and center-us.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he called that, you know where it's somebody who's always trying to push themselves out.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: Instead of standing behind your people and pushing them forward, they're in front of the people, taking all the credit for the work.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: Well, especially as an IC, especially as IC number two, you should never be in the front only during, like an after action review, but all the other times you're in the background helping and supporting and doing what you're doing you know you have seen ICs throughout our career who seem to be, even though you have a PIO or somebody assigned to that position, to go talk to the cameras and stand in front of that.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: There are some ICs.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: You say, why is the IC over there?
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: And then they've got their helmet on.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: You know, in some cities and maybe they have to, I don't know and they're describing the fire that took place, somebody's role If you have an organization, you have an organizational PIO, let them do that.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be the IC.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: So that probably could happen there, I would imagine.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Who's that guy we all know, who used to carry his chief's helmet in his car and he would show up wherever there was a camera.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: And then the deal was and then, like a photographer as his, would show up and they were just supposed to get action shots of him wearing his helmet and he had nothing to do with it.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: He was like a loiter, like a stranger on the street who just put a helmet on.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd go to large incidents and stand there with a, with a radio on his hand, and have a photographer take pictures of him.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: Didn't he go to a bridge that collapsed once and the police actually told him?
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: We want those pictures.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: The FBI confiscated the pictures.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't do this anymore, you talk about front and centerism.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, I managed.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you didn't do anything.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: You know, you just felt bad for the photographer.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: I would imagine you, poor knucklehead, you had to follow that ego-y brain.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: They start as firefighters to do that and you'll hear them and you hear these guys talking about these fires they put out and you thought you weren't even in the fire department when this call happened.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, I saw a homeless guy the other day.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: He's 45 years old, vietnam vet.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Dude, I'm not falling for it.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: I worked with a Vietnam vet.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: I'll probably cut this out, but I worked with a Vietnam vet and one time we go to a car accident and there's a guy, long hair, leg missing, you know, cut-off, jean shorts, American flag bandana.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: Anyway, we get there and he's rolling around in the street.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: Charlie's coming to get me and he's having this flashback, right, and this guy, Chuck, who I worked with, who was just hard as nails, goes up, starts whispering in this guy's ear hey, buddy, it's OK, we're back.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: You know, come back, You're not there anymore.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: And just really counseled this veteran in a very nice way.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: So we load him up.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: He's on the way to the hospital.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I hear Chuck in the front office doing the report and he goes.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Son of a bitch, and I was like what, Chuck, he goes.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: This guy was 14 years old when Vietnam was going on.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: He just happened to look the part.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: So I saw.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: Chuck give so much humanity that day to somebody who didn't deserve it at all.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: He got chucked yeah, he got chucked yeah but you know, where do we find the silverback management?
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: So if we want silverback leadership, where do we find that right now?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: Who's getting that.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: If you're signed up with blue card uh to for ce continuing education, then it's in there.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: Just go into your ce uh area.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: But blue card and you'll.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: Module one is the introduction module still there?
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: yeah, yeah, so it's going to be there forever, okay, well, not forever, but it's going to be there while we build the program.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: Once the whole program's finished, I don't know what we'll do with it.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we'll keep it in there as CE.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: We'll probably move it over and make a leadership, its own unique thing.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: But right now, it's added value.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, 100%, yeah.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: So everybody doing blue card fire departments, blue card CE, the blue card program this is a leadership component of it.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: So we're starting to put blue card access for other things.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: So, like the which one was it.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: So like the which one was it, it's this one where we have a link back to a deployment module we did on 1710 and what that looks like.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: So we will put appropriate content in each module and old blue card.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: People may see some stuff that was in the blue card program a million years ago that has been cleaned up and put back in there in a different way To kind of show a point of when you're managing, like the operations division and keeping everybody up on their core services.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: This is what some other tools you guys got to do that.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: So it's all a hug and a kiss.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: It all kind of comes out of the same ocean and helps with the same mission.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks guys for being here today Really appreciate you Well.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: thank you, vance.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: Hanging out on the podcast.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: John.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Vance.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: Happy holidays.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: It's all you B shifters out there.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: Till next time.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: Oop-la-la.