Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / 7 Million School Days Lost in Victoria

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7 Million School Days Lost in Victoria · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, Happy Monday. Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. We're
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: so glad you're here. Today on the podcast, a Big Conversation,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a report recently in The Herald Sun says that Victorian
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  Speaker 1: students are missing more than seven million days of classes
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  Speaker 1: each year. Seven million days of classes every year because
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  Speaker 1: parents are taking their kids on family holidays during term
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  Speaker 1: or choose to keep them at home without quote unquote
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  Speaker 1: school approval. Today, we're going to talk about what this
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  Speaker 1: stat means right around the nation. What it means for teacher,
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  Speaker 1: it's what it means for you as a parent, what
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  Speaker 1: it means for your children, and is it ever okay
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  Speaker 1: to take the kids out of school because they just
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  Speaker 1: need a day off, because you need a day off
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  Speaker 1: because Nana is having her eightieth birthday inter state and
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  Speaker 1: this is a really big deal for the whole family.
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  Speaker 1: Or maybe there's a funeral. We'll cover that and a
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  Speaker 1: whole lot more in today's very Controversial Conversation. It's the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast. We're back in just a moment. Stay
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: with us. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast,
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  Speaker 1: where you get real parenting solutions every single day. It's
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  Speaker 1: Australian's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson.
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  Speaker 1: Before we get started, I need to highlight Kylie's got
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  Speaker 1: this malingering thing. But it's not really a cold or
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  Speaker 1: a cough, it's just a malingering err and am I
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  Speaker 1: right in saying that you're a little bit twished today
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  Speaker 1: and today's topic, as we've talked about it, you've got
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  Speaker 1: a little bit cranky about it.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I did, captain cranky pants.
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  Speaker 1: So today, let me go through some stats and we'll
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  Speaker 1: see where this lands. I think this is really really interesting.
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  Speaker 1: Victorian students missing more than seven million days of classes
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  Speaker 1: each year. I haven't been able to access data for
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  Speaker 1: the rest of the nation. Let's just say what does.
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  Speaker 2: That actually equal? Because you know, you throw around these
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  Speaker 2: big numbers and everybody goes, oh, but what does that
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  Speaker 2: actually mean for each child?
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  Speaker 1: All right, So two things on this. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: we're only talking about public school kits, So it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: include the private schools, the Christian schools, the grammar schools.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't include the independent schools. It doesn't it's only
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  Speaker 1: the public schools. And what it equates to in twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty four it was sixteen point three million, which equates
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  Speaker 1: to twenty five point five days per child. It's doubled
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  Speaker 1: in about ten years now. This is really interesting because.
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  Speaker 2: How much school did you miss?
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  Speaker 1: I don't really remember. It was such a long time ago.
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  Speaker 1: I'm officially that old. I wagged a lot of school
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  Speaker 1: in my senior years because I was more interested in surfing.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm pretty sure I kind of just went to
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  Speaker 1: school every day when I was Yeah, I'm pretty sure
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  Speaker 1: I did in primary school, in high school having a
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  Speaker 1: day saying younger years, Yeah, it wasn't a thing. You
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  Speaker 1: just went to school.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: There was no I don't want to go or I
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  Speaker 1: need a mental health day. There was no family holidays.
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  Speaker 1: We just went to school.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. But I don't necessarily think that was a good
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  Speaker 2: thing either.
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  Speaker 1: It's already begun. Let's talk about that in a second.
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  Speaker 1: I want to share one more statistic with you. According
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  Speaker 1: to the Public Education System, most schools consider an attendance
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  Speaker 1: rate below ninety percent to be poor. That is twenty
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  Speaker 1: missed school days per year, so ninety percent. That's one
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  Speaker 1: in ten. You miss one inten it's poor. That's if
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  Speaker 1: you miss one day per fortnight, you are in the
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  Speaker 1: poor category. Of school attendance.
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  Speaker 2: But didn't you say the average kid was losing like
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  Speaker 2: twenty five days, So that's that's twenty five point five. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: So you're suggesting that every child who's attending a public
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  Speaker 2: school is actually below substandard attendance.
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  Speaker 1: That would be right, Yeah, twenty five point five days
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  Speaker 1: per child is what's missed in public schools, and twenty
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  Speaker 1: is the poor attendant. So, hello, Houston, we definitely seem
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  Speaker 1: to have a problem here. In the article that was
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  Speaker 1: in the Herald Sun, they cite twenty twenty four data.
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  Speaker 1: Check this out. Nearly half of absences forty five percent
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  Speaker 1: of absences we're a result of three things, travel, unexplained absences,
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  Speaker 1: or parent choice for reasons not approved by the school.
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  Speaker 2: And so what would be an unapproved absence?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think that'd be a bit of a principal
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  Speaker 1: or headmaster lottery here. I don't actually know that there's
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  Speaker 1: anything written down, but it might just the thing that
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  Speaker 1: I'm struggling with. And I actually really want to support
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  Speaker 1: teachers and principles on this, but I kind of chafe
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  Speaker 1: a little bit at the thought that I would go
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  Speaker 1: cap in hand to a principle and say I'm thinking
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  Speaker 1: about doing this with my family. Can I please have
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  Speaker 1: your permission?
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  Speaker 2: Yea that I need permission to spend time with my child.
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  Speaker 1: It feels a little bit icky. I guess. There was
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  Speaker 1: a quote in the article from Associate Professor Paul Kinson
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  Speaker 1: at the Strarian Catholic University. I quote, parents should stop
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  Speaker 1: criticizing principles who reject their leave requests. And I thought, well,
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  Speaker 1: don't ask the principal, just go.
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  Speaker 2: Look. This conversation gets me a little bit frustrated because
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  Speaker 2: I know my children better than anyone else, right, right,
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  Speaker 2: And I also understand and know what my family as
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  Speaker 2: a whole needs. Education is one part of my children's life.
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  Speaker 2: It's not everything, right, But I also recognize that education
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  Speaker 2: is important. Yeah, just like having a job is important
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  Speaker 2: and being part of a team. It's important that you
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  Speaker 2: kind of fulfill your obligations within those communities. But I
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  Speaker 2: feel like when we start talking about families needing to
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  Speaker 2: seek approval to do things that are important to the
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  Speaker 2: family unit, we are now trying to support a system
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  Speaker 2: that is actually not designed to support the family.
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  Speaker 1: Right, So we're saying family comes second, is what you have.
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  Speaker 1: There are a couple of examples that I'll give as
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  Speaker 1: to why somebody might want to take the kids out
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  Speaker 1: of school in the middle of term. Maybe dad is
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  Speaker 1: a shift worker or mum is a shift worker. We
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  Speaker 1: have a friend here runs a fire station. He's in
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  Speaker 1: charge of a fire station, and his holidays are dictated
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  Speaker 1: to him. He can come into his holidays for the
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  Speaker 1: next how many years, but he doesn't get a choice
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  Speaker 1: in when they are. They're simply this is when your
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  Speaker 1: leave happens, and that's when you will take your holidays.
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  Speaker 1: So he doesn't get to choose. Therefore, if he wants
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  Speaker 1: to take a family holiday, then the kids just have
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  Speaker 1: to be out of school because that's when his leave is.
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  Speaker 1: Otherwise he's on holidays and the rest of the families
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  Speaker 1: at work and at school, and he's.
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  Speaker 2: We watched him have plenty of we want to do that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because sometimes they've said, well, we're not going to
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  Speaker 1: go on holidays. Here, it looks like there's also issues
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  Speaker 1: of maybe the family really needs a holiday and the
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  Speaker 1: cheapest holiday or the best deal is in week eight
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  Speaker 1: of term two, a week seven of term two, and
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  Speaker 1: they just look at it and go, we can't afford
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  Speaker 1: to go when we're paying full price. During peak, So
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  Speaker 1: let's go in the off peak and make this holiday happen.
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  Speaker 1: Or maybe there's a birthday or a funeral, or a
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  Speaker 1: major family event or a.
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  Speaker 2: Family tragedy that actually requires the family to kind of
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  Speaker 2: be together for an extended.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we went through that a couple of years ago.
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  Speaker 1: On top of that, there are things like mental health days.
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  Speaker 1: I think that one's arguably iffy. I think people are
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  Speaker 1: using that pretty heavily, and we've advocated for it a
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  Speaker 1: lot in the past. I know you're still pretty big
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  Speaker 1: on it. I'm I'm not as big on it as
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  Speaker 1: I use to be. There's school refusal, financial hardship, transport,
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  Speaker 1: parents that aren't doing well, bullying, just to name a
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  Speaker 1: few things. So here's my question. Is it ever okay
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  Speaker 1: to just pull the kids out of school for recreational
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  Speaker 1: reasons because there's a concert that they want to go to,
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  Speaker 1: or because there is a holiday, or you want to
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  Speaker 1: take a long weekend and head to the snow or
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  Speaker 1: head to balley to get away from the cold. Is
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  Speaker 1: it ever okay to just say, yeah, we're gonna have
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  Speaker 1: seven days away because we need it, even those schools
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  Speaker 1: on Is this there a topical question I'm actually asking you.
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  Speaker 1: You're pretty fired up before we turn the mics on,
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  Speaker 1: and I'd like the whole world to hear how you
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  Speaker 1: feel about it.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there is a case for it. I'm their mother. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I get to decide entirely. It is entirely my decision
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  Speaker 2: and yours to determine whether or not our family needs
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  Speaker 2: to take a break.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I kind of agree with you. I do. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not sure that I feel as strongly about it as
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  Speaker 1: you do, and I think there are a whole lot
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  Speaker 1: of other considerations that need to come into play. But
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  Speaker 1: I think that.
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  Speaker 2: Any I think that any parent who is trying to
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  Speaker 2: juggle life is already aware of the nuances around it.
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  Speaker 2: There are not too many parents that I talk to
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  Speaker 2: that just throw caution to the wind and make a,
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  Speaker 2: you know, like a random decision on a Thursday to
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  Speaker 2: take their kids out of school. These decisions usually take
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  Speaker 2: time and deliberation over that the best time to take
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  Speaker 2: their child out of school because they've got exams coming up,
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  Speaker 2: or they're in the middle of a really important part
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  Speaker 2: of term that requires them to be their full time.
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  Speaker 2: Like every time I have a conversation with parents about
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  Speaker 2: about these kinds of things. It's not clear cut. There
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  Speaker 2: are so many things that they're taking into account.
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  Speaker 1: So I would be suggesting the following. The age of
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  Speaker 1: your child matters, the time of term matters, how often
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  Speaker 1: you're doing it matters. What they're missing matters. If they
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  Speaker 1: miss fractions, then fractions become hard for them forever unless
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  Speaker 1: they are able to do the makeup work when they
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  Speaker 1: get back.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm going to push back on that. When you
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  Speaker 2: understand and know the kind of the programming and the
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  Speaker 2: way things are structured and learning, kids are relearning the
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  Speaker 2: same thing in a school system over and over and
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  Speaker 2: over and over again.
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  Speaker 1: Well that kind of stops on my next point, and
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  Speaker 1: that is that if you're a teacher and you have
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  Speaker 1: to keep on teaching the same thing over and over
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  Speaker 1: again because kids are away.
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  Speaker 2: That's the curriculum, that's the way it's designed.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, well, after the break, let's talk about why there's
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  Speaker 1: been such a surge in the last ten years of
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  Speaker 1: parents taking their kids out of school for a whole
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  Speaker 1: lot of non approved reasons, and what we need to
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  Speaker 1: take into account if we want to get this right.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Stay with us. We're back. This is the happy Family's podcast.
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  Speaker 2: So you've suggested that absenteeism has doubled in the last
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  Speaker 2: ten years, right, And we've acknowledged that when you and
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  Speaker 2: I went to school, it was just the dune thing
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  Speaker 2: like parents, parents just send their kids to school. Has
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  Speaker 2: COVID had anything to do with the numbers that we're seen,
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  Speaker 2: I reckon it has.
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  Speaker 1: So the research indicates that there's been a seventy one
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  Speaker 1: percent jump since twenty twenty. Okay, so one seventy one year.
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  Speaker 1: So it was already going up from mid twenty ten's
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  Speaker 1: like twenty fifteen ish was already going up, But since
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  Speaker 1: COVID seventy one percent, Like that's just an enormous jump.
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  Speaker 2: You think about everything that was said during COVID and
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  Speaker 2: how families experienced. For a lot of families, it was
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  Speaker 2: it was a really painful experience. And then there was
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  Speaker 2: a lot of families that kind of like, we're never
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  Speaker 2: going back to the way we lived life before this.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think most people have gone back to how
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: they lived life.
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  Speaker 2: No, but I was going to say, we've had those conversations,
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  Speaker 2: right with There's been this learning that took place as
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  Speaker 2: we recognized that so many of the things that we
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  Speaker 2: placed major importance on were not actually as important as
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  Speaker 2: we thought they were. And yes, I think that for
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  Speaker 2: most families we have reverted back. But is this a
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  Speaker 2: reflection of that learning and the recognition that there needs
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: to be a better balance in life.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe so remote learning that kicked off during COVID. We
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  Speaker 1: just didn't do it before then. It was not a thing, But.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think families had the finances to be able
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  Speaker 2: to do that for the most part.
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  Speaker 1: Regardless, remote learning became a thing during COVID, And I
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  Speaker 1: think what it actually said to a generation of parents
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  Speaker 1: is that school can be kind of optional ish, like
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  Speaker 1: you can catch up lady, you can do stuff online.
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  Speaker 1: There are workarounds for almost everything. And COVID kind of
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  Speaker 1: taught a generation of families that you can do that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there's multiple pathways like that. That is a common
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  Speaker 2: discussion within schools.
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  Speaker 1: Right And if you can do the work on a
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  Speaker 1: laptop at the kitchen bench, then how sacred is a
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  Speaker 1: tuesday often in the classroom. Really we can catch up,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: we can talk to a friend, we can talk to
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  Speaker 1: the teacher, we can google online if we get stuck.
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  Speaker 1: And if your kids are in primary school, especially We've
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  Speaker 1: talked to so many educators school said, yeah, kids can
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  Speaker 1: kind of miss most of primary school and they're going
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  Speaker 1: to be okay. As long as they can read, write,
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  Speaker 1: and do maths, they'll be fine. Now, I'm not diminishing
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  Speaker 1: the importance of school. I'm not saying education doesn't important,
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  Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It obviously does. And there is some data
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that says that literally every day missed, every day missed
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  Speaker 1: is associated with achievement dips. Right, So the data certainly
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  Speaker 1: points to school attendance being.
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  Speaker 2: But achievement dips in what.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: On your grades?
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, but where does that actually sit in a
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: child's wellbeing?
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  Speaker 1: And that goes back to the big question. I think
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  Speaker 1: that's why parents are saying, no, we need a holiday,
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  Speaker 1: We're going to take them out. No, it's cheaper and
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: we can. We should go on the holiday in week six.
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  Speaker 1: That's when it works because that's when we can get
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  Speaker 1: time off. That's when it's off peaks, so we don't
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  Speaker 1: have to pay as much. And I think that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of what's really going on in this data. So what's
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  Speaker 1: take home message here? Because we need to wrap it up.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that there is a really strong one
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that we can advocate without making half the world. Hey
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  Speaker 1: this anyone in education. But Kylie's suggestion, I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: just kyler suggestion is if you need to have some
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  Speaker 1: time off, if you want to take the kids out
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  Speaker 1: of school, do it. Am I reading that right? Is
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that what you're saying?
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  Speaker 2: You're reading that right? I'll own right.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm kind of right there beside you because if
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you're going on a holiday, I need to go with you.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I need your credit card to leave.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: What do you reckon? We're gonna post about this on
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: social media and share our thoughts there. We'd lovely to
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: jump onto our Facebook and Instagram page and tell us
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: what you think right or wrong? Should we or shouldn't we?
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Do school attendance matter that much? Is it okay to
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: have a term time holiday? Let us know on socials.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulin for
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: and Bridge Media, with Mimhammond's providing our additional admin support.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more in foto make your family happy,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: visit us at happy families dot com dot au. Tomorrow
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: on the pod, we answer it t question about what
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: to do when your kiddos have no friends in the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: neighborhood or the other kids are excluding them, and later
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: in the week a conversation with scholar Nicholas Epley about
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: how we've become a little less social and how his
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: research shows that if we could become a little more social,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: it would make a huge difference in our lives and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the lives of our kids. Back tomorrow, talk to you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that