Latest / Identity at the Center / #89 - Converged IAM with Arun Singh

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#89 - Converged IAM with Arun Singh · Identity at the Center

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You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is
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the show that talks about identity and access management
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and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
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started. Welcome to the identity at the
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center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
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Hey Jim hey Jeff. How's it going?
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Not so bad yourself. Good hair just got back from a
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week of vacation. I took my family to Orlando to
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the land of the mouse and stood in a lot of long lines.
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We were supposed to be a 50% capacity, I honestly couldn't
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tell felt like the lines were longer than ever.
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That's, you're a brave person to take that.
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Annie, I know you'll you and I work, I talked about earlier
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today and you weren't able to actually get onto a lot of the I
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think attractions because they were sold out ahead of time,
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right? Well, that's the, something is
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sold out. But now, it's even though you
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have a paid Park admission and you have, you know, you prepaid
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to be gone. All those attractions, you have
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to reserve them using the app. So word to the wise, if you're
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going to Orlando for Disney and All the parks, download the app
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reserve, your spot in different attractions ahead of time.
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That's probably a good idea. I think so, I was able to
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actually switching topics real quick because this is going to
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hopefully get me into a spot where I can go elsewhere, as I
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finally got my first covid shot, so I'm very excited about that.
1:42
So I'm only a couple of days into it.
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Everything's been fine. So so good deal.
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Oh, and you know, my story, I went to get my shot and it just
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happened that it was right? As they stopped giving the
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Johnson Johnson shot and that's what they have lined up for me.
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So I get turned away. Yeah, well I mean I guess an
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abundance of caution is probably good but that's got to be
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disappointing. Yeah, well I'm out there are
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scouring working to get my shot now.
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So we'll see. It'll all work out in the end.
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I'm sure. I'm sure it will.
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So why don't we shift gears a little bit and maybe Taco.
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But identity, access management we're going to introduce our
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guest in a minute. But before we get to that
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subsume, some kind of, you know, odds and ends that we've got
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out. There, we still got a universe.
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That's still taking place June 21st to 23rd.
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It's in Denver, but it's also online.
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I know we talked about this originally, maybe a few weeks
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ago and I was like, no way I'm in my going on-site.
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Well, now that I'm actually have the vaccine and I'm scheduled
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already for my second wife, right.
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Maybe I think I think I've gone from zero percent chance to 40
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percent chance that I might try to attend in person.
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Has your thought process, change the now because I know that you
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were kind of looking forward I was looking forward to it.
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And, you know, I've got to get at least gold status on Delta
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Airlines or my life is meaningless.
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So, I've got to start traveling again soon, Jeff soon.
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So the only reason you're going is for that phrase for the
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mileage as status, uh, the status, mainly the status of
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Tennessee, who cares about the identity stuff.
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And I mean, you have to admit, as well as, as a former Road
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where you have to admit that, you know, traveling without
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status of you, you know, going and are A line to save a couple
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of bucks and you get treated, like, not as good.
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It's not leave it at that, not as good.
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Yeah, you know, it sucks. But I think traveling some of
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those things where it's, it's hard to at the very beginning
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because you may not have a cumulus ask, but once you've got
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the status, it's actually not so bad.
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At least, you know, from my perspective, I do like to travel
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but it's certainly a lot easier when you're, you know,
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constantly getting upgraded and you've got things like, you
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know, Club, memberships and hotel statuses.
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You can kind of get late check-out.
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It's an early check outs and then obviously that bleeds over
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into, you know. All travel which is great too.
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So, I certainly miss that, you know, I'm gonna have a hard time
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achieving any type of status for next year, based on this year.
4:03
So hopefully, hopefully the travel status God's will be kind
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and extend a little bit more. Imagine showing up at the
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airport and going to check a bag and they said that'll be $40 at
4:17
sorting it's like 70 or 80. Now I think at least always
4:20
right yeah it's ridiculous. That's that's why I'm a fan of
4:23
the one bag. Pavel.
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So if I can get everything underneath underneath the seat
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in front of me even better. So, you are a fan of doodads, an
4:30
evangelist of doodads and of one bag.
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Travel, gotcha. You got it, right?
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Yeah. I certainly have a bag clutch,
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and that is for sure, but enough about that.
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Why don't we talk about identity management a real quick that
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took place on April 13th, which is a Tuesday and it will be last
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week by the time. Folks are listening to this.
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Want to give a congratulations out to Tom Malta.
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Who was awarded the Evangelist of the Year from Navy.
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Federal Credit Union. And then also the city of
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Boston, which is kind of cool, which was the winner for the
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organization of the Year. Always interesting to see.
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I think a government service, when a organization of the year
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for anything. Because you don't really
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typically associate efficiency, you know with that.
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But it sounds like they've done, a great job of kind of getting
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the, I am space into a much better position maybe than it
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has been. Not that I have very much
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familiarity of Boston, but I think any recognition is
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probably good. What do you think?
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Well, very big kudos to them City of Austin.
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Congratulations. You know, that, you know, behind
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the scenes when that anything like that happens, you know,
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there are individuals who worked to burn the candle at both ends
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to make things happen. That's fantastic.
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I know Tom from my past and my career and identity management,
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he's a great person and I been seeing mostly, you know, recent
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interactions with Tom pin through Linkedin and he's doing
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a great job. All those really being an
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evangelist, right? So that was the award that he
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received. And I think it was well deserved
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he's getting out there and making sure that, you know,
6:03
people are staying up-to-date with what's happening in the
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industry, and I think he's been doing a great job at it.
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So, very good picks, I think and big, congratulations to both
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yes, aggressive, both winners, maybe at some point, we can try
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to get one or both of those guys or at least representatives from
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the organization's to be on the show at some point.
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So why? Don't we talk a little bit about
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what we're going to get into today and that'll give us a
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chance to introduce our guests. Our topic today is around the
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convert converged identity and access management and to help us
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with that conversation. We've got Arun Singh.
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He's the CEO and board member at.
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I Lantus. Welcome to the show Arun.
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Thank you so much, Jim and Geoff.
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Thanks for having me today. Yeah, thanks so much for joining
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us. And you know, I think one of the
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things that we want to get into is really what, you know, how
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the market has been responding to a few different.
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Things, especially in the identity space, we've seen a lot
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of Acquisitions. We've heard things about zero.
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Trust will probably get into a bunch of different things like
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that but you know, seeing as how this is your first time on the
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show with us, our first question, always lines up with,
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you know, how did you get into the identity and access
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management space? Is that something that you chose
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or did you choose it? So in my case, it was both
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actually. So when I started my career as a
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practice had for application security, during that time
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identity and access management was Pretty hot.
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So, I chose that to start building up that practice.
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And you may not know, but about 20 years back.
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When I was at Wipro, you know, we had actually created our own
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product called Wipro web secure which got listed in Gartner's
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magic quadrant. So there was a lot of Buzz
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around that the single sign-on access management, Enterprise
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SSO, all of that were you know so very popular but later on I
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moved. To look at all different aspects
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of cyber security including identity and access management
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of course. But Focus was all across IMS,
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all across, cyber Security Solutions.
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And later when I move to Accenture as the managing
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director there, I built the cybersecurity managed services
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that was covering, you know, end-to-end cyber Security
8:17
Solutions, and identity, and access management was one of the
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core pillar. Their sin was the story at you,
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why? Where I work as a partner and
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there, we created cyber security as a service offering and
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digital identity as a service, which was my favorite.
8:33
You know, pillar where we build that entire solution from
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scratch and the quad multiple customer, and very interestingly
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in my current role, when I joined Islanders as the CEO.
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So I'll enter that had been focused, you know, past two
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decades on identity and access management.
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And this time, I will say I am chose me.
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Okay, to be able to you know, come and come back home.
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So it was kind of a full circle coming back to I am and that's
9:02
my full project Focus right now. That's an interesting story.
9:08
You know. So what we want to talk about
9:09
today is this trend of convert the convergence of I am and you
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know I've been in Jeff and I both getting the I am space for
9:18
over 15 years and you kind of seen the industry go from sweets
9:22
to best-of-breed read and back to sweets.
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And you think back around 15 years ago is when Oracle started
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buying best-of-breed Solutions and pulling them together into a
9:34
sweet. And in a way you could call that
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a convergence of I am. But I think the the trend in
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convergence of I am today is about making all these parts and
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pieces work together seamlessly. So I really wanted to talk about
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or have you talked about how you see this?
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I mean Your company kind of coined the term compact
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identity, maybe you talk a little bit about what that is
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and you know maybe key off of what I was talking about there
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with the convergence of. I am being more than just a
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suite of different solutions for each of these you know single
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sign-on identity, governance and thing and privileged access
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management. For example yeah so this is very
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good question and in fact of you have so much focus on the
10:22
convergence. So let me Start with your first
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question that why we call our product as compact identity and
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what is, you know, the meaning of compact identity.
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So, basically, when we coined, this term compact identity that
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time convergence, you know, story was not that very popular,
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but when I'll enters created this product compact identity,
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the idea was to bring all the components of identity into a
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single platform and compact them together to create a Platform.
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That's how we started our journey.
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And if you look at that, why we chose to create this compact
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identity solution. So our experience has been, as
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you rightly mentioned that in the beginning, it was a very
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simple requirement for identity and access management people who
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are all looking for single sign-on solution.
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Then slowly, the provisioning de-provisioning came into
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picture, then the role engineering came fine-grained
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access management, multiple different Type of authentication
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and authorization Solutions, which came up like are back
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context-based, you know, access and attribute-based access
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management. And then very recently this
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identity governance, identity, Administration, and Pam, all of
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that came into picture. Now, when you look at, from any
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customer perspective, so on an average, any client need to
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choose a minimum of five to seven different.
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I am product. And then stitch them together to
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be able to meet the control requirement of identity and
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access management. Now, this approach is not just,
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you know, brings lot of complexity from integration
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perspective but also managing so many different vendors.
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It's a highly cumbersome activity.
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So, when we were looking at this market and what are the gaps,
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okay, we thought about this problem to create a platform
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ground up And we can converge the full Suite of excess
12:27
management, requirement the full Suite of identity governance
12:30
Administration, requirement. And then create a platform where
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client don't have to buy multiple tool and they can buy
12:37
one platform and using that you can you know address your I am a
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requirement that is another element.
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Also I would like to highlight here is that if you look at, you
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know, application onboarding onto I am platform, so
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traditional, Coaches that were first to deploy an access
12:56
management solution whether it's a doctor, Microsoft, any
12:59
solution you pick up and then you on board your thousands of
13:02
application onto that access management platform.
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Then you need to repeat the same story with IG a solution.
13:09
So any idea tool you deploy and then after you do the same thing
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and then the third is when you deploy the Pam solution,
13:15
privileged access management solution.
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So again, the same story need to be repeated it's not just time
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consuming but it's also Most intensive.
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And that's the problem which we are solving with the help of
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convergence of, I am Solutions onto a single platform, what we
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call compact identity. You know, it's really
13:35
interesting because it's almost like the definition of insanity,
13:37
right? Doing the same thing over and
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over. It's like, okay, we just went
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through our integration of, you know, X number of systems
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through our access management platform.
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Now, we got to do the same thing for IGA and now we've got to do
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same thing for Pam and, you know, maybe there's things that
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you're doing through Sim integration right for analytics
13:53
and etcetera. Ra.
13:54
So I think it's, I think it's interesting point you bring up
13:57
one of the things you mentioned before was also this kind of as
13:59
a service model. And I think there's we've seen a
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lot of organizations that have expressed a desire to move away
14:05
from on-premise type Solutions, right and even if that
14:09
on-premise really means virtualization they really want
14:12
to go to something as a service. So that's kind of what I was
14:15
thinking is, you know, maybe we can cut kind of talk about, you
14:19
know, what have you seen from your perspective when it comes
14:21
to as a service model? Yeah.
14:22
So as a This model is started catching lot of momentum, past
14:26
56 years. And when I was working at Ernst
14:30
& Young as a partner, so we actually decided to build the
14:34
entire cyber security as a service model.
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And the reason for building up, you know, as a service model was
14:41
because it actually cuts down the time to deploy the solution,
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the time to value is one of the co-driver and traditional
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General model will require you to buy the tool.
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You need to By the infrastructure deploy that.
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And the amount of time it takes for any large organization, like
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procurement cycle. Etc.
15:01
At to be able to deploy a test and then roll it out.
15:04
All of that can be cut short, okay?
15:06
Because you have the base solution available in the SAS
15:10
model, but apart from that, there are two other reasons.
15:13
I'll know mention which are very prominent which are driving this
15:17
as a service model. The first one is, you know, very
15:22
easy, upgrade and maintenance. So in identity and access
15:26
management to, you might remember that deploying a
15:29
particular version of the product is just the starting of
15:33
your opening very soon. You will find the product,
15:35
vendor will come up with the next version.
15:38
And then upgrading from the old version to the new version is a
15:42
full-blown project. It's not just changing the
15:45
product, but all the integrated application, you need to take
15:48
through this entire journey and where you need to retest all of
15:51
that. And if this had been a constant
15:53
pain in the The streak, the SAS model, or as a service model
15:57
actually takes away. This major pain, we are product
15:59
vendor as a vendor, we can upgrade and building the new
16:02
version new feature functionality without, you know,
16:05
breaking the entire, you know, Continuum of integrated
16:08
application onto the system. So not just lowers the
16:13
operational cost but also some of those implementation value,
16:17
you can avoid and also that, you know, the team and the talent
16:20
which is required to upgrade the system, all that is.
16:24
You know, kind of you can get rid of and then, you know, the
16:27
second more most important factor which is driving as a
16:30
service model adoption is, you know, the operation from
16:35
anywhere or, you know, you can call it as a driven by the
16:39
pandemic. The cloud first, or Mobility,
16:42
just kind of, you know, initiative where there is a
16:45
clearly defined business need where we need to enable our
16:48
employees, the contractors and business associates to be able
16:52
to access system. From anywhere and from the cloud
16:55
adoption perspective. Having this as a service model
16:58
actually brings lot of facilities because you can bring
17:02
the I am discipline to all the SAS application, the identity
17:06
and access management. You know, controls can be
17:08
applied to all those SAS applications seamlessly.
17:12
And that's the, you know, kind of main advantage why people are
17:16
adapting to as a service approach.
17:18
I think one of the challenges that I've seen with the as a
17:21
service technologies that are that are out there Especially if
17:24
they were not originally designed for as a service.
17:27
Is that the feature parity is not exactly there between an
17:30
on-premise solution that might have been there historically
17:33
versus maybe the SAS version of that product.
17:37
A lot of times we see organizations that may be of
17:39
customized a lot of their on-premise solutions to meet
17:42
particular business needs. And when you start to shift into
17:45
the, as a service model, you know, you really have to figure
17:48
out, you know, how can you adjust your business processes
17:51
to meet the capabilities that are Actually available, you
17:55
know, in the new versions of those products because it may
17:57
not be as customizable as you might be used to.
18:00
I'm curious as what your, your thoughts are on.
18:02
That kind of feature parity that we've seen between different,
18:06
you know, vendors that are out there and maybe they're not
18:08
quite exactly the same, but maybe good enough is good
18:10
enough, you know, for now and you know what your experience
18:13
has been in in that specific area around features.
18:17
So I think this is a very strong observation which you have and
18:21
the way I would like to Define it as that that there are two
18:24
kinds of products which are there in the market, the, some
18:28
of the Legacy product, okay? When they found that cloud first
18:32
strategy is being adopted by majority of clients.
18:35
So they actually upgraded the new feature functionality to
18:39
support cloud and there are second category of products,
18:44
okay? Which are Cloud native and those
18:46
other products, which were born in cloud, and there's a very
18:48
clear cut difference. You will see as you implement
18:51
those solutions that cloud native.
18:54
Lucian's, they adapt to various different feature functionality
18:57
and the cloud services seamlessly but where you are
19:00
trying to patch on those additional features to just make
19:04
it compatible with the cloud there the integration
19:08
implementation and integration poses several challenges.
19:12
So I would strongly recommend that, you know organizations who
19:16
are looking for the as a service solution they should look at
19:20
whether the product vendor is cloud, native or They are trying
19:24
to get onto the cloud as after Mark.
19:28
Yeah. That that's a really good point.
19:30
If if it's okay, I'd like to pull the discussion back to kind
19:35
of the industry Vision or where the industry is adding kind of
19:40
talked about that in terms of the convergence of I am and and
19:45
kind of where I was introducing from was you know, taking that
19:49
view of how the industry has gone through consolidation
19:52
phases. And then that Created
19:54
opportunities for startups to kind of fill niches and to
19:59
specialize in, you know, become a best of breed solution.
20:04
I think that's a good backdrop for this question, which is, you
20:08
know, what, we just saw recently was this major purchase by OCTA
20:13
of the auth0 platform and kind of building out their
20:17
capabilities. Plus we see, you know, OCTA kind
20:21
of building out capabilities around I ND governance and
20:24
privileged access management. We see that with other vendors
20:27
as well. I'm picking on OCTA primarily or
20:30
picking out octave primarily because of the recent
20:33
acquisition. I'd like to get your feedback on
20:35
that. But you know, another Trend that
20:37
I'm seeing is a lot of platforms.
20:40
The Microsoft platform building out identity management as a
20:44
component of that Salesforce servicenow doing kind of the
20:48
same thing where they're building out there.
20:50
I am capabilities and saying, hey, you can just come on.
20:54
Platform and use all of our, I am tools as well.
20:57
So I guess a room to you, you know, what are your thoughts on
21:01
the OCTA austere acquisition? And then, where do you see the
21:05
industry going as a whole? Is it more towards that?
21:08
It are we going to see the cycle again?
21:10
Where we see a consolidation, but it creates opportunities for
21:13
other vendors. Yes.
21:15
So these are the recent market. Dynamics are actually proving
21:18
our Point, okay? Which we had been actually, you
21:22
know, trying to bring Yup. Since past many years, that
21:26
converts the I am is the future of identity and access
21:30
management. If you look at the recent report
21:33
published by Gartner in December 2020, they actually leave
21:39
published this IGM Market guide. Their they have very clearly
21:44
given the market prediction that the next 24 months by year 2023
21:49
more than 45% of new. I am deployment will be Skin for
21:54
converged. I am solution and that's a very
21:58
big statement because In the market, people are now realizing
22:03
there is a fatigue. They don't want to buy those
22:06
Niche products separately. They want a single platform
22:10
where all these Solutions are big tin and the recent
22:13
acquisition by OCTA, you know. It actually kind of confirms
22:18
this Market Trend that traditionally they had been very
22:21
strong in the market on access management side.
22:25
But now they are seeing that, you know, the IGA and Pam if
22:28
they bring both of that into their portfolio.
22:30
Go. So they can address the new set
22:32
of requirements which are coming in.
22:34
And if you look at, you know, the the approach what time were
22:39
dark, and many of the other, I am players, they are also
22:43
taking. They are also trying to expand
22:45
from their current domain, like bam product vendors.
22:48
They are trying to move into IGA and access management.
22:51
Likewise the IGA vendors very soon you will find.
22:54
They will also start moving left and right, okay?
22:57
To start, you know, getting into access management and Privileged
23:01
access management, you know, his face and one of the core Point,
23:05
okay? Which we feel a little bit
23:07
positive about it. That there are two ways by which
23:10
you can actually build this converged.
23:11
I am a story one, what OCTA is doing like, acquiring the
23:16
different product and then, you know, either you do the pre
23:19
integrated solution, which you present to your client, or maybe
23:23
you sell each of these Solutions separately to the client.
23:26
So, from customer perspective, it will be single, vendor from
23:30
whom you can. All these product, however, the
23:33
way we look at it, that true convergence is where you have
23:37
created a product right from the beginning.
23:39
The entire code base is a single code base, which is addressing
23:43
the access management IGA and, you know, Pam requirements
23:46
together and there are several advantages in doing.
23:50
So, because you are not looking at it as a, you know, three
23:53
different product. But it's a tightly integrated
23:56
right from the beginning. And some of those risk analytics
23:59
data, or Identity analytics data, which you require to pass
24:03
on from one tool to another tool that all can happen seamlessly.
24:07
So we still feel that you know clients will look at the
24:11
difference between you know the Stitch the converged IM solution
24:15
versus through. Converged IM solution where we
24:18
are right now. Positioned as a market leader
24:21
and we created this entire solution from, you know,
24:23
grounder talking about, you know, the Microsoft coming onto
24:27
the platform or, you know, the other player.
24:30
Like Salesforce, I think those are also corroborating to the
24:35
same point that convergence is, you know, a big Trend in the
24:40
market. Number one, number two, that the
24:42
entire space of identity and access management is so very hot
24:47
that many of these large package solution, vendor, okay?
24:51
They are realizing the client demand and adding more features
24:55
and functionality to be able to cater to those customer need.
24:59
I'd also like to add to your list.
25:00
List of the servicenow and the kind of, you know, the new
25:04
feature capabilities, what they are, you know, kind of bringing
25:07
onto the market, okay? They are also confirming to the
25:13
same Trend that even though it is started as a itsm tool.
25:17
But since clients are putting up the request for access
25:20
management Etc, why not to service that request directly?
25:24
And from that perspective they are bringing the IGA
25:27
capabilities into the you know, they are itsm to So many of
25:32
these overlapping capabilities, which will be coming up in the
25:35
market and they simply defined two Trends.
25:39
One is the convergence. Another, that I am is pretty
25:42
hot. It's a huge investment with
25:44
people are making into this area to address this issue and both
25:47
of them are really good from, you know, the I am professionals
25:51
perspective, I think it's really interesting.
25:53
When you talk about the platform well how many organizations that
25:59
have Servicenow don't also have Microsoft or you know also have
26:04
Salesforce and so if you making the pitch that hey you know,
26:09
pull it all together, you still have this heterogeneous
26:12
environment unless you're a very small organization, you saw as
26:15
heterogeneous environment that you need to connect.
26:17
So it is somewhat challenging but I wanted to bring you back
26:22
in all through this up to your room but also to Jeff is around
26:27
the OCTA and all that 0dr auth0. You can because I just find it
26:32
fascinating. I think it's going to be really
26:36
see the impact play out of the next few years.
26:38
I'm wondering, you know, Jeff and I are in the Consulting
26:43
space, right? So, we get involved with a lot
26:46
of product evaluations with our clients and product bake-offs,
26:51
and it's just surprising, however, maybe not surprising,
26:54
but it was just happening so much that Octonauts 0 would be
26:58
finalists kind of pacing off. With one another in product
27:02
evaluations, they have a different story to tell, right?
27:06
Octus kind of the, you know, my perspective was it was a tool
27:10
built so, you know, from the UI system administrator kind of
27:15
tool for doing identity. Access management.
27:19
Where is also 0 was kind of a developer tool, right?
27:22
You need to be able to go in and kind of look at the code and do
27:26
a lot of code samples so you could play with and things like
27:28
that. I guess, turning all Didn't do a
27:30
question. Is what does OCTA need to do
27:36
now? There's made the author's, 0
27:38
acquisition to make it successful or it it's got to be
27:40
more than just a Runners, two separate products forever,
27:46
right? And you have their wisest just,
27:47
they would have been better kind of running off on their own.
27:51
What do what do they need to do? You have a perspective on that?
27:54
Or is it just sit back and wait? And see a room.
27:58
One, that you take that one first?
28:00
So, So my feeling is getting that look, I would say that we
28:03
should wait and watch because OCTA had actually acquired
28:06
multiple different tools with some overlap in the
28:09
capabilities. So how they are going to, you
28:13
know, create you know, homogeneous solution and
28:16
integrate all of them together to bring the capability for
28:19
their end. Customer will be something.
28:22
Which will be really interesting for us to watch also like
28:26
treating each of these products separately and bring Benefit.
28:31
If you add the licensing cost. That goes very, very high.
28:35
So it will be really interesting.
28:37
I probably, I prefer to reserve my comment and see that, how it
28:44
shapes up in coming days, because it's not just about
28:47
zero, but the other very recent acquisition, what they did, for
28:50
IG. And okay, let's see how all of
28:54
that plays together, and that's a great CEO answer for sure.
28:57
You know, the way that I I would approaches is I don't, I'm not a
29:02
CEO but my two cents would be, you know, I think you have to
29:05
take a look at the different markets that they've
29:07
traditionally served so austere. All like you said, Jim has been
29:10
more developer focus. And I think OCTA has been seen
29:12
more as an Enterprise kind of inside the firewall type tool,
29:16
right for employees. But they have been making
29:18
inroads to the customer side of things, maybe it's out roads,
29:21
not sure if it's in roads, if you're talking about customers
29:23
in that case. But I think one of the things
29:26
that what I would probably look at is in the short-term,
29:30
nothing. It's right there to big
29:31
companies, they're going to have to kind of navigate the
29:34
different Technologies and integration where it makes
29:36
sense, so that they don't disrupt customers of their own.
29:39
But I think long-term, I think this strengthens octaves API
29:43
situation and gives them a more developer focused capability
29:48
with in that regard. And then, you know, at some
29:51
point there's going to be a lot of overlap because they do a lot
29:53
of the same things. So you know it is a year from
29:57
now or maybe it's two years from now, you know, which API are You
30:00
actually using. Is it an original OCTA one?
30:03
Or is it an Oscar one? And at the end of the day, it
30:05
doesn't matter as long as it's, you know, leveraging, whatever
30:08
it is, you're trying to do. So I think it'll be interesting
30:10
to see how it works out because, you know, they're certainly not
30:12
the only ones making Making Waves in that space made act as
30:15
we're coming out of octane which was their yearly conference.
30:18
This year. They announced Pam capabilities
30:21
and the privileged access management space.
30:22
They announced IGA and identity governance capabilities but a
30:26
lot of that stuff isn't really coming until next year so they
30:28
made a lot of waves with announcements.
30:30
But this isn't anything that's real until it hits the market.
30:33
And that's not slated, until I think q1 of 2022.
30:36
So we're still a ways away and it's as always the devil's in
30:40
the details, right? What does that actually mean?
30:42
When you're saying you're doing IGA, what does it actually mean?
30:44
We're doing privileged access management, is it going to be as
30:46
full featured as something like a cyber-ark?
30:49
Which is kind of the dominant player in that space, right?
30:51
So I think I'll be interesting to see how it works out.
30:54
And I think this kind of drives towards where I wanted to take
30:56
the next question which was around investments in the I am
30:59
space because As we see organizations start to look at
31:03
different platforms, sometimes that means making an investment
31:06
in that platform and divesting from existing infrastructure or
31:10
tools that they might already have.
31:12
And I'm curious to run from your perspective, I guess, couple
31:15
questions right. What are you're seeing from that
31:16
perspective of investing and new platforms and new tools and
31:20
trying to build that converged? I am capability where it makes
31:24
sense. And then from a just from a
31:26
market perspective, do you see any differences in the way that
31:30
the you This has been approaching those types of
31:32
scenarios versus maybe what's been taking place
31:34
internationally? Yes.
31:35
So, this is a standard question and the way I would like to
31:39
answer this, that there are a couple of, you know, standard
31:43
driver for investment in. I am a space that are Universal
31:47
all across the globe, like Regulatory, Compliance, and
31:52
audit, and compliance needs are standard across the globe.
31:56
Whether you look at, you know, America's us has got Tree
32:00
specific regulations and you know same way in Europe, the GDP
32:05
are the government regulation or here in the CCP.
32:08
All of that are driving and each country has got their own
32:12
regulation. So that's one of the primary
32:14
driver for I am investment, but apart from that, you know, the
32:20
some of the new drivers which had come up is like digital
32:24
transformation and especially in American Market, many of the
32:29
organization. You know, they are going through
32:32
the digital transformation and this had created a very
32:35
different need for looking at identity and access management
32:40
primarily because they want to, you know, handle the user
32:44
experience and the user consent management, and all those
32:47
Associated single user ID and those you know whole lot of
32:53
those experiential input which they want to handle differently.
32:57
That's actually driving in a big way.
33:00
Adoption of identity and access management.
33:03
And the you know the other area is the risk mitigation and the
33:09
overall maturity of the security cannot be achieved by you know,
33:13
keeping things manual or semi-automated.
33:16
So without having identity and access management solution, you
33:20
know, deployed or without making this investment, you cannot get
33:24
to the modern cyber security architecture.
33:28
I am Solutions are driving you. No identity Centric analytics
33:32
like a behavior analytics and those kind of things which you
33:35
can bring into the picture. And, you know, using those
33:39
identities and click or behavior analytics, you can identify the
33:43
indicators of compromise early on, and you can feed in, you
33:47
know, more enriched information to your security operations
33:51
center. And also based on the risk
33:55
associated with the transaction, there are different level of
33:58
authentication, which you can. Provide so risk mitigation is,
34:03
you know, Big, Big Driver, you know, for I am investment.
34:08
Now, looking at the geographical differences, I would say in US
34:12
market, digital transformation is one of the co-driver a part
34:16
from Regulatory Compliance, or operational efficiency, but in a
34:20
media Market you know it's a bring your own device or
34:24
Mobility Trend that's also creating a major push towards
34:28
adoption. And affect Market is primarily
34:32
because of security concerns, because there have been so many
34:35
different breaches which happened.
34:37
So just to prevent the Cyber theft, that's the core reason
34:41
and the government regulation, as I mentioned earlier, that's
34:43
the driver for investment in. I am it's interesting that you
34:48
finished off with the security One driver, you know, we're we
34:54
hear from even from clients, now they're looking at a zero, trust
34:58
model. So used to be We would recommend
35:02
or ask have you looked at your Charles servers your trust on
35:05
your plate? I'm wondering, you know, is that
35:08
a driver that you're seeing as well?
35:10
Where clients are actually saying we are, we are tracking
35:13
towards has your trust framework?
35:16
And I'm wondering are you designing your Solutions or your
35:20
messaging around the zero trust framework and using the
35:25
converged, im as a as a way to achieve store troughs.
35:30
Yeah of course. Yes you know on zero cost is
35:33
definitely pretty hot in the market and I'll quote you know
35:37
the reasons that we've done by October that itself indicates
35:41
that more than 60% you know Enterprises.
35:44
They are trying to be are working towards introducing 0
35:48
trusting to their environment and in our experience also like
35:52
ailanthus being a global company when we you know interact with
35:55
the clients in Southeast Asia or Europe or in the US.
35:58
So could we find that 0? Stays one of the common element.
36:02
Okay, which people are asking about, and if you look at zero
36:05
trust primarily it is, you know, pushing the entire requirement,
36:11
you know, we are never trust, always verify model towards
36:15
continuous authentication. So I would say that gone are the
36:18
days. Okay, we are clients are happy
36:21
with one time authentication. Now they are looking for
36:24
continuous authentication to be able to boost their overall
36:29
maturity of the cybersecurity. And if you look at the, you
36:34
know, core requirement of zero trust framework where people
36:37
start with, you know, the creating separate zones and then
36:41
identifying their high-value asset into the most secure Zone
36:45
you require to continuously monitor the traffic which is
36:49
going in and out and who are the people who are accessing those,
36:54
you know, high-value critical assets and the traditional
36:57
approach of having this login ID, password, And every time you
37:01
pop up and people need to login, you know, enter those password,
37:06
or if you have taken the authentic credentials first
37:08
time, and then you are playing it again.
37:10
And again is not going to help at all.
37:13
So one of the roadblock, 40 trusted option is the password.
37:19
And that's where we are actually noticing that there is a, you
37:23
know, new trend which is catching up in a big way, the
37:26
password less authentication and This is a primarily, you know,
37:31
bringing cryptographically techniques to be able to you
37:35
know, pass on the credential and you know handle it in a manner.
37:40
We are without involving the user at the back end.
37:43
You can do it in a more secure Manner and then you know, enable
37:47
the organizations and the businesses to be able to deploy
37:50
the zero trust solution. Yeah.
37:52
I'll say, we here at the the identity of the center podcast,
37:57
have a strong disdain for the password.
38:01
So, you're hitting on a lot of good points, but so let me put
38:04
it to you like this. Finish the sentence, the
38:06
password is dead, dot dot dot. I say password is dead, and it's
38:12
a time for you to upgrade your identity and access management
38:16
solution. I strongly recommend people to
38:19
try out the password less authentication and, you know,
38:22
try it out for a pilot set of users first.
38:26
See that how delighted they are in terms of their experience and
38:29
then you can roll it. Out for other stuff.
38:31
The users in your organization. That's I think that's a great
38:36
answer, you know. I think password lists is one of
38:40
the few Technologies where you can improve the customer
38:43
experience and improve security at the same time.
38:47
So let me pass this one to Jeff. Jeff, the password is dead dot
38:52
dot dot again. I've been here in the passwords
38:56
dad's, I don't know. For the last seems like five
38:59
six, seven years, Um, I don't know anybody who doesn't want to
39:02
kill the password, but we're still stuck in this mode of you
39:07
know, organizations having not made the investment in there.
39:09
I am platforms to be able to support that or they're just
39:12
starting to get into it right. Hardware Cycles can be very long
39:15
in an organization. You may have like a three or
39:17
five-year laptop refresh or, you know, Hardware refresh.
39:20
And maybe people are just now getting into things like
39:25
Windows, hello, right? Or the touch of Touch ID on a
39:29
MacBook. There's always the mobile
39:31
option, but there's always been hesitancy.
39:32
I think to allow people to use a non corporate device to do
39:38
corporate E-Type things, right? And I'll be waiting is out
39:41
there, but sometimes made there is another good mobile device
39:44
management plan in place. So, I guess I'll see it when I
39:47
believe it. I really hope I'll believe it
39:49
when I see it. I should say.
39:51
I hope it comes sooner rather than later.
39:53
It's a fantastic feature. When you've got it enabled, you
39:56
know, for your organization. But yeah, I think let me know
40:03
when it actually is real in the majority of organizations and
40:06
maybe not just you know the folks who are trying to be
40:08
cutting edge. So I know we're coming up here
40:11
towards the you know, our time for this conversation but before
40:15
we go, I wanted to know. One, thanks so much for joining
40:18
us. A rune.
40:19
Are there any final kind of Pearls of Wisdom that maybe you
40:22
can drop on the folks that are listening here or for Jim?
40:25
And I so just one point I wanted to add here like the point,
40:29
which you And regarding password less.
40:31
Authentication is so very true. And, you know, I have actually,
40:36
I'm publishing one paper on Forbes regarding this particular
40:41
point, the observations around, what are the reluctance in the
40:43
minds of the people? And it's kind of based on my
40:46
conversation with many of those clients.
40:49
Okay, who are interested in password less authentication but
40:52
still thinking. So I tried compiling those
40:55
thought process together. So please look out for this
40:59
folks article, which is Coming up next week on the same topic.
41:04
Now, I'll be great. Yeah, if you can we can get a
41:06
link. We can certainly include it in
41:07
the show notes that people can come check it out.
41:09
And I'm always interested to hear what the thoughts are
41:10
around it, because it is a no-brainer until someone has to
41:15
spend some money to make it happen.
41:17
And hopefully, that will take place sooner rather than later.
41:21
Jim. Any final words of wisdom for
41:23
us? Yeah, two things for me first,
41:26
my answer in the password is dead.
41:28
Its Jester's dead. No.
41:30
No, it's not. But the problem is that a lot of
41:34
the core information, security issues that we Face will not go
41:40
away until it actually is said, so you know, is it going to be 5
41:45
years? We're still laughing at the
41:47
statement, the password is bed, or is there going to be a great
41:51
movement toward and, you know, it's really on the b2c side?
41:54
Where is the biggest problem? That's things that basically
41:57
internet even more than is on the corporate side?
42:00
So that's that's my number one comment on this number to
42:04
comment is really, we talked a little bit about the space.
42:06
We talked about, you know, evaluating I am Solutions and we
42:12
have the CEO on from one of the companies are not saying that's
42:15
just the, as a service to him. But just as overall, I think,
42:21
you know, the approach that most organizations take when they're
42:25
evaluating, I am solutions to look at like the magic quadrant,
42:29
for example, and say Say we're just going to look at vendors in
42:32
the upper, right but my perspective is always been that
42:36
you know that is a guidance guidelines so you kind of can
42:40
survey the space and know who's in it and who has the most
42:43
complete solution, get all that information is valuable but all
42:48
the organizations that are kind of within that realm even if
42:52
they're in the lower left quadrant doesn't mean they're
42:54
not good Solutions and that they don't fit a certain use case
42:58
that you have, right. Although Solutions are in
43:01
business because they they fit and need for some organizations,
43:08
right? And so I would encourage folks
43:11
that if they're going into the product evaluation phase that
43:15
they set their their Vision, their field of vision as widely
43:19
as possible to evaluate organization or evaluate, I am
43:25
products that are maybe not in the upper right-hand quadrant
43:29
that's just The only thought is because I think if you open that
43:32
field of vision you may find something that is actually the
43:35
perfect fit for your particular circumstances.
43:39
And that's a really good point. I think, you know, at times
43:42
organizations get their blinders on, right?
43:43
And they kind of follow Gartner's gospel, which you
43:46
know, they're great. They're a great research firm
43:49
but they're not the end-all be-all.
43:51
There are really really good products that are in the Gartner
43:55
magic quadrant and any of them. They're also really good
43:57
products that aren't rated because there is, you know,
44:00
Certain thresholds to even be considered that in that spot
44:03
kind of analysis. So, you know, take the time to
44:06
do the research, take a look at what's actually important to
44:09
your organization, what are the capabilities and services that
44:12
you need and make the right choice for your organization
44:15
based on, you know, that kind of knowledge.
44:16
So I think that's a really good advice Jim, so I appreciate
44:20
that. So I think with that, we're
44:22
going to go ahead and close it out for this week Arun.
44:24
Appreciate you being part of this gym as well.
44:27
You can also you know visit us again at the show at W dot
44:31
identity at the center.com. We're on Twitter at idac
44:34
podcast. You know, we're always open to
44:36
linking and Linkedin connections and messages that way.
44:39
If you've got ideas for the show, you'll feel free to
44:41
connect with Jim and I a rune I'm going to assume that you're
44:44
open to connections as well on LinkedIn.
44:45
Is that right? Yes.
44:46
Absolutely great. So I'll include your information
44:50
as well in our show notes that people can check out.
44:52
And then with that I hope everyone is staying happy and
44:56
healthy and we'll talk with you all in the next one.
44:58
Thanks. Thank Thanks Jim and Jeff.
45:05
Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast.
45:08
If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
45:11
visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.