Latest / Back in 10 / Episode 46: The HR Conversation That Could Save a Life with Ralf Tomandl

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Episode 46: The HR Conversation That Could Save a Life with Ralf Tomandl · Back in 10

0:00
Savanah Carlson: We have a separate section of, of our podcast called Beyond
0:03
the Break Room, and it's where we like, there is absolutely no HR involved.
0:09
That's like
0:09
Ralf Tomandl: we should have started with that.
0:11
We would've never talked about leadership where HR.
0:14
Savanah Carlson: Well, we also wanna rep who you're,
0:16
Ralf Tomandl: who cares?
0:17
Savanah Carlson: Who cares?
0:18
Ralf Tomandl: Who cares about everything else?
0:19
If there's good pizza,
0:21
Chris Stone: So we always, Ralph, have some kind of crazy fun intro for the girls
0:27
and it, and they never know what it is?
0:29
Because I'm the one that comes up with it and I don't tell them.
0:33
So that being said, oh boy.
0:36
Savanah Carlson: Oh boy.
0:37
God
0:40
make me proud.
0:40
Make me
0:41
proud
0:41
Chris Stone: I'm, I am going to keep this one very tame.
0:44
It is.
0:45
The girls from back in 10 with a special guest today in 3, 2, 1.
0:52
Jen Steadman: Back in 10 is a podcast for dental leaders who do it all
0:55
and need 10 minutes to themselves.
0:57
Savanah Carlson: It's about real conversations, not curated ones, the
1:00
kind that happen off the clock behind closed doors, and between the chaos of
1:04
running a practice and running life.
1:07
Jen Steadman: Hosted by Savannah Carlson and Jen Stedman, two women who've led,
1:11
learned, and laughed through it all.
1:14
Savanah Carlson: This show brings honest stories, leadership truths, and
1:17
the occasional sassy take on what it really means to lead in dentistry today,
1:21
Jen Steadman: because sometimes the best leadership happens when
1:24
you step away for 10 minutes.
1:26
Savanah Carlson: This is back in 10.
1:33
Hey everyone.
1:34
Welcome to back in 10.
1:35
I'm Savannah.
1:37
Jen Steadman: And I'm Jen.
1:39
And many of the questions that have been submitted by a lot of our
1:44
listeners lately have been really HR heavy Savannah, we've noticed.
1:49
Savanah Carlson: Yeah.
1:49
And HR is one of those things in a practice that people don't really
1:53
think about until it goes wrong, and then by then it goes really wrong.
1:59
Jen Steadman: Yes, indeed.
2:00
It does.
2:01
So Savannah and I have brought in a special guest to chat hr, the compliance
2:08
Maven who makes HR make sense so your people in your practice can thrive.
2:14
Savanah Carlson: We're thrilled to have Mr. Ralph to Mandel on back in 10.
2:18
So as COO of HR for Health, Ralph helps practices take the chaos out
2:23
of HR and replaces it with systems that are actually gonna work with 20
2:27
plus years in SaaS and leadership.
2:28
He's built teams and solutions that drive growth, simplify
2:32
operations, and deliver real results.
2:36
Ralf Tomandl: Wow.
2:37
Jen Steadman: Yeah, look at Ralph.
2:38
Ralf Tomandl: Someone wrote that good to make me look good.
2:42
Jen Steadman: So welcome Ralph.
2:43
We're so happy to, uh, have you here.
2:46
And one of the things that we pride ourselves on in back in 10 is we just
2:49
get right to the meat and potatoes really quickly, right to the point.
2:54
So why don't you give our listeners the 4 1 1 on all things Ralph.
3:00
Ralf Tomandl: Before we hop in Okay.
3:01
Before I, I, I, I jump into that.
3:03
Um, Jen Savannah, thank you so much for having me.
3:06
Like, I'm so excited.
3:08
It, for those of you who would wanna know just a little bit
3:11
about, about the background, um.
3:13
Savannah and I bumped into one another at the, at the Chicago Midwinter Show,
3:17
and it took about 20 seconds for us to realize that, uh, we were like the
3:21
perfect match to chat about all the things that are important in this industry.
3:25
Um, and then says, don't you know, I happen to have a podcast
3:29
and you need to be on that.
3:30
Um, so, so I'm really excited to be here.
3:33
Um, so thanks for having me.
3:34
Okay, so the four one.
3:36
Yeah, look, I am, I have been in dental and if you would've told me
3:40
that when I graduated college that I make a career in this industry, I
3:43
would've laughed you out of the room.
3:45
Same.
3:45
But I have it.
3:47
It is, it is one of those, it is one of those things that has
3:51
been really, really rewarding.
3:52
And I will tell you, uh, the fact that I've landed in an n HR
3:57
technology solution company is kind of, or it was kind of inevitable.
4:01
And the reason why I say this is, is that it's really the people in
4:04
this industry that make all the difference of why I keep coming back
4:07
to it and or why I'm staying in it.
4:09
It is a small group of really, really interesting and very
4:14
focused folks that, that it just makes it fun to be part of, right?
4:18
So, I've been in this industry, like I said, my entire career.
4:22
I, uh, specialize in bringing both products as well as companies
4:27
to market grow them, support them, et cetera, et cetera.
4:30
Have done this with, um, a company, uh, called 1-800-DENTIST.
4:34
When I first started out, I worked for friend Fred quite a bit.
4:38
That's right.
4:40
Shout out to Fred Joelle and his brother Ron.
4:42
And, um, I was a dance by Serona for a good stretch.
4:45
Um, and then I met, um, Aliya.
4:47
Ramche, the founder of HR Alpha Health.
4:50
And he has a really, truly amazing story of how he came to this industry, right.
4:55
And what he's doing.
4:56
And, um, and that is that baby is called Atrial health.
4:59
So I'm very, very excited to be part of that.
5:02
In, in another life, um, and a parallel life.
5:05
We also run a organizational and or meeting space event that is called.
5:10
The Dental Leadership Summit.
5:12
Mm-hmm.
5:12
This is where all our good friends come together and we
5:14
can learn from one another.
5:15
So that's a whole nother
5:17
Jen Steadman: that's, that's where I met you last year.
5:18
I spoke there for you guys last year.
5:20
Yeah,
5:20
Ralf Tomandl: that is right.
5:21
That is right.
5:22
Jen Steadman: No, great.
5:22
Ralf Tomandl: So we're we, I have, have, thankfully my, my hands, uh,
5:27
both full and or deep in, in various ways for this industry to both
5:31
partner to both help to both learn.
5:34
And advise our friends in dental.
5:37
Savanah Carlson: Uh, so basically what you're saying is that you're a rock star.
5:40
That's what I'm hearing.
5:41
Ralf Tomandl: Oh God.
5:42
No, no, no.
5:42
Someone else has to say that about me.
5:44
Like, otherwise I'll be like too embarrassed.
5:46
No, no know.
5:49
Yeah, no, look, I like to be, I like to be the, the, uh, the worker bee
5:53
and the, the operational person.
5:56
I like getting stuff done.
5:57
I'd like figuring things out.
5:59
Uh, I like being the operator, right?
6:01
Um, because that's important to, to essentially employees and, and ultimately
6:05
a HR, what we're talking about.
6:07
Savanah Carlson: So you were, you were definitely a Legos kid.
6:09
A as opposed to like a coloring book kid growing up.
6:12
Ralf Tomandl: Yes, very much so.
6:13
Is what I'm hearing.
6:14
Very much so.
6:17
Jen Steadman: Welcome to the Lego.
6:18
I have a,
6:18
Chris Stone: yeah.
6:18
Jen Steadman: I'm like I have a Legos kid.
6:20
Can you, there's a Legos table right behind me.
6:22
There you go.
6:22
Yeah.
6:25
Oh okay, let's get to it.
6:27
Ready?
6:28
Or the first official question for you.
6:31
So how do you think practice owners can balance their clinical role?
6:36
And their role and their position as a business leader in the practice.
6:42
Ralf Tomandl: Great.
6:42
First question and, and I think that this is one of those where the age old.
6:49
Story of them having gone through training for years and years and years
6:53
for their clinical role, yet they have not gone through any meaningful
6:57
training to become a leader of humans.
7:01
Yeah.
7:01
When they start their own business, or even if they're an associate
7:04
dentist or if they're working for, uh, multi-practice or DSO Right.
7:09
The, that aspect has to be trained and has to become.
7:14
Part of their DNA, just like the training for years and years
7:17
to become a great clinician.
7:19
So the answer to how is you have to take it as at least as serious as being a
7:27
clinician because ultimately your rewards and success will come not just from your
7:33
own clinical skills, but from your ability to lead and motivate your staff members.
7:40
And it is as little as.
7:42
The person who sits directly across from you, that is your chair site
7:47
assistant, to as much as I'm running a multi-location, uh, operation with
7:53
50, 70, or a hundred employees, right?
7:55
Like it doesn't matter.
7:56
Communication is key and you have to learn that, and you have to allow for
8:00
yourself to be trained in that as well.
8:03
Savanah Carlson: And you you brought up the collaboration between clinician
8:06
and business leader, and where do you, where do you find the common
8:09
ground between clinician and business leader, and how do you help them
8:14
turn that commonality into success?
8:17
Ralf Tomandl: So I think that there is, there's something
8:20
that, that, that combines and or.
8:24
Touches all of us when, when it's not just in a dental practice, but but in any
8:27
kind of setting that you're in, and that is communicating with one another, right?
8:32
Like understanding why you're doing something.
8:34
Understanding under, and realizing how important different roles are
8:38
in any organization, but also in healthcare practice, in a dental
8:41
practice, uh, it doesn't matter, right?
8:43
Like the, your ability to effectively communicate.
8:47
It happens regardless if you're a clinician or not.
8:50
So that is where, where the crossroads really lives is and where I, where I
8:55
live as a, as a leader in an organization as someone who is structured in a,
8:59
a regular business, um, where I have responsibilities to both, somewhat
9:03
above me, but someone below me, right?
9:05
And tho those responsibilities are, are just as important or equally important.
9:10
Jen Steadman: Yeah, absolutely.
9:11
And I think so I came originally from a clinical background.
9:15
I was that dental.
9:17
Nerd, that was his eye.
9:19
But I think one of the things, Ralph, so this month is April.
9:23
It is oral cancer month.
9:25
And we're talking about clinical, right?
9:27
Business, leadership, everything.
9:28
And one of the things that I know we wanna remind everyone is it's
9:33
important to be a clinical leader, obviously, but to remember there's so
9:37
much that we're doing in the practice.
9:39
Sometimes we forget to screen our team.
9:42
For oral cancer, and it's not just about the patients, it's about the people that.
9:47
On our team that care for our patients.
9:49
Like, don't forget about that.
9:50
Yeah.
9:50
And why don't you tell us a little bit, I know HR for Health has
9:53
partnered with an amazing organization.
9:55
Tell us a little bit about that and why this month is so
9:58
important to you personally.
10:00
Ralf Tomandl: Yeah, so thanks for the shout out and thanks for the little detour
10:04
because I think that this is what you just said is, is I think really true, right?
10:08
Like is part of your clinical skills is to care for others.
10:13
And so.
10:15
HR for Health.
10:16
The Dental Leadership Summit has partnered this year with Saving Face,
10:20
which is a charity that PRO provides, uh, and or strong in the awareness
10:26
of, um, oral cancer screening.
10:28
Their goal is actually to get over a million people screened
10:31
this month for the month of April.
10:33
Wow.
10:33
Um, so, so April 1st, right?
10:35
Like, um, we have 30 days to get this done.
10:38
And we are here to, to shout out, two things I wanna say.
10:41
One this is very much a personal drive for me.
10:44
I'm personally a, a cancer survivor.
10:47
I had throat cancer several years back, fully healed and
10:50
can call myself cancer free.
10:52
But it is because of people that were diligent actually in
10:56
my dental practice at the time.
10:58
Who helped me by saying, you know what, there's something going on.
11:02
You need to see a specialist.
11:04
You need to go see an ENT to have this checked out.
11:07
And, and it is exactly that clinical awareness that is sometimes outside
11:12
of what people are realizing or, or not really doing that.
11:16
Frankly saved my life, right?
11:18
Like so, yes, I am obviously a, a large, uh, uh, contributor
11:22
and or champion of this cause.
11:26
And very happy to be, to be partnering with saving face on this effort.
11:31
Jen Steadman: That's
11:31
Savanah Carlson: amazing.
11:32
That's phenomenal.
11:32
And if anyone listening, if you're interested listening or viewing,
11:35
make sure to review the show notes.
11:36
'cause we'll link up, um, yeah, the resource to be able to learn more
11:41
about what's happening between, um, HR for health and this organization.
11:44
So you can
11:45
Jen Steadman: Yeah.
11:45
Savanah Carlson: Get involved.
11:46
Get
11:47
Jen Steadman: involved.
11:47
Yeah.
11:47
Let's help them to reach that goal, right?
11:49
Yeah.
11:49
Like our listeners, like screen your team, screen your patients, like 1 million.
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We can do it.
11:55
Ralf Tomandl: That's right.
11:55
Save space.org is one.
11:58
Go to the dental leadership summit, uh, dot com and, but then
12:02
like I said, uh, Simon, the notes afterwards is where it's also linked.
12:05
So thank you guys very much.
12:06
Appreciate it.
12:08
Jen Steadman: Yeah,
12:08
Savanah Carlson: of course.
12:08
Absolutely.
12:08
Anything to help help others.
12:11
Right.
12:11
Jen and I are, are very much servant leaders, so if this
12:15
is going to help support our community, we're, we're down for it.
12:19
Awesome.
12:20
Ralf Tomandl: Thank you.
12:21
Yeah.
12:24
Awesome.
12:25
Savanah Carlson: Okay, I wanna hop into some, some fun questions af from
12:31
being a previous dental office manager.
12:34
I wanna pick your brain a little bit what I know.
12:39
I'm, I'm very direct, I'm very awkward.
12:42
It's fine.
12:42
It's got,
12:43
Ralf Tomandl: is there a bravo moment coming on?
12:45
Is I, am I feeling a bravo moment coming on?
12:47
What's happening?
12:49
Jen Steadman: You, you never know what's gonna happen here, so just buckle up.
12:52
Just buckle up.
12:53
We're just, we're here for the ride.
12:56
Savanah Carlson: It's when the Boston accent comes out that
12:58
you're either like in a really good place or in a really bad place.
13:01
Right now, we're in a good place.
13:03
Jen Steadman: Okay,
13:03
Savanah Carlson: good.
13:04
Okay.
13:05
What is an HR mistake that you and the team see leaders do all the time, but
13:12
they don't even realize you're doing it?
13:16
Ralf Tomandl: You know, this is a great question and, and it's,
13:18
it's one of those things that, um,
13:22
most often goes.
13:26
Undetected for a long period of time, and what it really is, is, is,
13:30
is when a business leader changes their business structure ever so
13:36
slightly, yet progressively over time.
13:39
Here's what I mean.
13:41
Being it being, so let, let's keep it in dental, right?
13:44
They change their office hours, they change technologies that they're using.
13:49
They require training for certain roles in an organization to
13:54
be trained on this and or put.
13:56
Potentially even certified for it, right?
13:59
Like those are all little things that are happening over time that are all
14:03
part of the, what I would call the, the clinical progression of what's
14:07
happening in the dental practice.
14:09
And everybody's like, look, it's standard business practice.
14:11
It's just what we do, right?
14:12
Like we are evolving.
14:13
And so what they're forgetting is, is is that they have to bring
14:18
the employees along for the ride.
14:21
So part of this is, yes, obviously you have to tell them, but you also
14:26
have to get buy-in from the employee, and that's the part that they forget
14:30
that like for example, that is why a handbook in a dental practice in
14:34
any business is really important.
14:37
You need to update your handbook and go.
14:39
Hey you know what's happening.
14:40
We no longer require you to work Monday through Friday.
14:43
We are now working Tuesday through Saturday.
14:45
Is this something you can do?
14:47
Is this how, how we can make this work?
14:49
And here is the new.
14:51
I'm gonna say like agreement with the employees to go, this is what we do.
14:55
The employee goes, yes, I want to do this.
14:57
Yes, I want to be certified in this new training, this and the other.
15:01
So a handbook has to re reflect the philosophy of the business
15:07
owner and the changing.
15:08
The, the changing times, right?
15:11
Like of what's going on in a practice, and that's often of times completely
15:15
overlooked or, or not even done at all.
15:18
Savanah Carlson: And the not even done at all is the scariest thing that Jen
15:22
and I have seen and heard from our peers is that it's that the, you know,
15:26
the admin teams, the regional teams, even the doctor owners are, have so
15:30
much on their plate that oftentimes.
15:33
The handbook is just the lowest thing on their, the priority em pole.
15:38
It's, it's, and it's scary.
15:40
It's scary for the team, right?
15:41
Really?
15:42
Ralf Tomandl: And there's no, there's no malice there, right?
15:45
Like, it's like, look what I many a times what I many a times come across when we
15:49
talk to a doctor that we bring a board and we look at their, their, uh, talk
15:53
about their existing handbook or, or the last time it was updated, and they go
15:59
through it and they have this realization.
16:00
It's like.
16:01
Oh yeah.
16:02
This is how we used to do it.
16:03
But that was 2017.
16:05
Yeah.
16:05
Right.
16:05
And so, yes.
16:06
You, you progress, right?
16:08
Like, and so that, that's why this is really, really important
16:11
because they think their employees know what's going on.
16:14
But do they I don't think so.
16:17
And so that, that is one of the things that is often overlooked.
16:20
Jen Steadman: And that's why we're, Savannah and I are such huge advocates
16:23
for, uh, dentists having a practice manager or practice, leader in their
16:28
office because they can't do everything.
16:30
They cannot, they, you know, they're super men and women, don't get me wrong.
16:34
However, they can, they can't do everything.
16:36
They can't expect themselves to, be the clinical leader and run the business
16:42
and help to manage the team and do the handbook and do all these things like.
16:46
They need someone that can help to support them and support the team.
16:49
So that way not only can you know the team be supported, but the business
16:54
can be supported, which helps to, helps take care of the patients
16:58
and themselves like they need.
17:00
A little bit of balance there, right?
17:02
Like we talk about worklife balance a lot, but it's, it's, um, it's really
17:06
important that they have someone there to, to support them in that.
17:09
Ralf Tomandl: So I think you're bringing something really important up here, which
17:12
is, is your ability as a leader is to.
17:17
Both delegate and empower your employees.
17:21
And I think that that is one of the key of leadership, right?
17:23
Like is, is, is, so you were talking about the clinical aspect
17:28
of how to be a clinical leader.
17:29
That's being a business leader, right?
17:31
Like is your ability to delegate responsibilities effectively.
17:35
IE entrusting people that they can do something to the standard
17:39
that you want them to do it.
17:41
Yeah, so they have to be both controls, but they also be as encouragement.
17:44
There has to be training, et cetera, et cetera, in order for them to do
17:47
it the way the business has to do it in order to, for them to succeed.
17:51
So I think that is a really, really important part of leadership.
17:55
Savanah Carlson: I totally agree.
17:55
Yeah.
17:56
And recognizing that our leaders who are in charge of, in charge loosely
18:02
said of HR in their practices.
18:06
They don't have to be the experts because there are leaders out in the industry.
18:13
Health who, who are, who are the experts who will walk with you in that
18:19
journey and help you along the way.
18:21
I mean.
18:23
The pressure of having to do so much inside a practice and then have to learn
18:27
the ins and outs of hr I do feel so, so bad for our, our leaders who are, are in
18:34
that situation and they don't have the option at this point to invest in, in any
18:41
kind of outside resource for themselves.
18:44
Ralf Tomandl: Look, I, I think you, you're.
18:46
You're coming to a really interesting crossroads here that, that a lot of
18:50
our doctors underestimate, um, which is the fact that they're saying,
18:56
I am not a large organization.
18:59
I don't have neither the means nor the time to invest in an entire HR department.
19:05
Well, you know what the law doesn't really care how big
19:08
you are if you run a business.
19:11
You are responsible for your employee just like a Fortune 500 company, right?
19:15
Like the, that doesn't change.
19:17
So your responsibility to be true and compliant with your employees, with
19:24
your business is on your shoulders.
19:27
And so you might as well get help and or get it done right.
19:31
Instead of, you know, God forbid, gets su it at the back end.
19:34
Savanah Carlson: Right.
19:34
And that's, that's such a powerful statement.
19:36
The law does not.
19:38
The law doesn't care.
19:40
No.
19:40
Correct the law, the law's gonna hold you account, you're gonna be held accountable.
19:43
Right.
19:43
And you know, knock on wood, it, they never come knocking on your door.
19:47
But you wanna be protected if that ever happens.
19:51
And making that investment in your practice and in your business is
19:54
one of the things that should be on the top of your property list.
19:57
Yeah,
19:58
Jen Steadman: you can't afford not to.
19:59
You can't afford not to have someone that knows all of those laws in and
20:04
out and can help to support you with that because they change so frequently.
20:07
You can't.
20:08
Keep up warm.
20:10
Ralf Tomandl: Correct.
20:10
And look, and those are all things that are really important and we want you to
20:14
be compliant and we want you to, to have all those things and that is all true.
20:18
But for me, what's really important and the conversation that we really
20:21
have with, with our doctors and our, and our owners, is the long-term.
20:26
The next step, right?
20:27
Like that's step one.
20:28
Yes, you need to be compliant.
20:30
Yes, you need to do this, but what you really need to do is, is, is figure
20:33
out how to motivate your employees for them to do a great job, for them
20:37
to be excited about coming to work.
20:39
IE are you pro providing a. An environment where they're getting reviewed on a
20:45
regular basis, they're being either bonus, they're being, there's a
20:48
structure and what we call a career arch for an employee to feel valued.
20:54
And that's really what it is like.
20:56
So we help you save time.
20:58
You need to have that time.
20:59
To do what?
21:00
People development.
21:01
Right?
21:01
Like coming back to your very first question.
21:03
Mm-hmm.
21:03
How does clinical and business combine?
21:05
That's what it is.
21:06
Giving you the time to be the leader you wanna be, right?
21:09
Like that's really what it is about.
21:11
And so yes, compliance is important.
21:13
Compliance has to happen, but that's what you then can sleep.
21:16
Good at night by having, and I, I don't want this to just be about, about HR
21:20
health, but, but that's what it is.
21:22
What we want you to be is, is the leader you can be because you don't have to worry
21:25
about those, early foundational things.
21:28
So that's what's really,
21:30
Jen Steadman: yeah.
21:30
Mm-hmm.
21:30
Absolutely.
21:32
Savanah Carlson: And that, that really segues into our next question actually.
21:36
What's something leaders do thinking that they're being a good boss and
21:41
they're being, they're leading the culture of their team, but it actually
21:45
makes their team respect them less.
21:48
Ralf Tomandl: This is something that, that I've, I, I think so.
21:54
When people feel good about something that just happened and they want to
21:58
because they're feeling good there, there's a positive feeling and
22:02
they want to, in that moment, share that emotion, share that feeling.
22:06
IE give kudos.
22:08
Or for example, give a Starbucks card or a card to go shopping or something like
22:14
that to that person that helped them or helped her do good is one of those things
22:19
that they think, oh, I just rewarded somebody for doing something good.
22:23
Like, like what?
22:24
What people call a random act of kindness.
22:27
Now, do I want people to do random acts of kindness?
22:29
Absolutely.
22:30
But you know what?
22:31
If you are in a team of let's say 10, and you give one person
22:35
on that team a $50 gift card for whatever, how are the other eight?
22:41
Viewing that.
22:42
Do they know how, what exactly?
22:45
Well, so, so like, what's the reality of that?
22:47
By like, you as the owner feel good because you did something
22:50
good, you rewarded somebody.
22:52
Well, the eight others go like, well, how do I get this?
22:54
Why did I not get it?
22:55
What do I need to do to get it?
22:57
And why am I a second class citizen?
23:00
So those are things that are unintended.
23:03
Consequences that really you, you should refrain from, right?
23:07
Be open, be clear about your communication, saying, look.
23:11
If we do this, if we get here, if you as a team reach this
23:16
goal, we are going to do this.
23:18
You get this and you all get this, right?
23:21
Mm-hmm.
23:22
So there's no preferential treatment, there's no, there's no, this person
23:25
is getting it because I'm just happy on a Tuesday and they just happen to
23:27
be in the right time and, and space.
23:30
It's really important because
23:32
Jen Steadman: you wore green today, so you get a Starbucks card.
23:35
That's
23:36
Ralf Tomandl: right.
23:36
Yes, yes.
23:37
Absolutely.
23:38
Absolutely.
23:39
So, so that is the, those are the unintended cons and believe me, so I know,
23:44
like I, I know I'm working with, with a dentist right now and, and they are so.
23:51
As everybody knows when, when you work through both billing and or with,
23:56
with payment system companies, they send you a hundred dollars gift cards.
23:59
Oh, you're using our system, here's a hundred dollars gift card.
24:02
Chris Stone: Mm-hmm.
24:02
Ralf Tomandl: And it arrives in the mail and the doctor proudly
24:05
tells me, so, you know what?
24:07
I do wanna open the mail.
24:08
Whoever stands in front of me, it gets the a hundred dollars gift card.
24:12
What, do not do that.
24:15
Do not do that.
24:15
Don't
24:16
Savanah Carlson: do that
24:16
Ralf Tomandl: ex.
24:17
Exactly right.
24:17
And he's like, no, but I, this makes me so happy.
24:19
I'm like, I guess it does, but I'm telling you that is not from an HR perspective, a
24:24
good tactic for your team to be motivated and, or it can actually nevermind
24:29
the fact that there is also a taxable liability issue and all these other, um,
24:33
these other issues that come with it.
24:35
But from a team motivational perspective, it is also a terrible thing to do.
24:40
Jen Steadman: Well, I guess it, it solves the problem of who's going to
24:42
the mailbox to get the mail today, because everyone's gonna want go.
24:46
Right.
24:46
You don't have to worry.
24:47
Rain, snow
24:50
Ralf Tomandl: matter.
24:51
Very true.
24:51
Very true.
24:53
That's right.
24:55
Jen Steadman: Oh man.
24:57
Okay.
24:57
Wow.
24:57
So I have a question for you.
24:59
Ralf Tomandl: Yeah.
24:59
Jen Steadman: If you could secretly.
25:02
Sit in on a conversation or like be a fly on the wall.
25:06
Oh boy.
25:06
On any conversation in the dental practice, what would that conversation be?
25:13
And why would you choose that one?
25:16
He's already aggravated.
25:17
He's like, I ate
25:18
Ralf Tomandl: this.
25:18
I know.
25:18
When you, when you started saying it, I was like, oh my God, please
25:20
don't go over there, but you are.
25:22
Okay.
25:22
So I'll tell you why this is such a, why this is such a thing, uh,
25:25
for me that I don't, I think it's really important, but it's okay.
25:29
So in a previous life I was I started out in sales like a hundred million
25:33
years ago when I still had dark hair.
25:35
And so.
25:36
Part of my job was I had to listen to my sales reps calls.
25:41
Right.
25:41
Oh, okay.
25:41
To make sure that they were like, it was like quality assurance.
25:44
Jen Steadman: Yeah.
25:44
Yeah.
25:44
Ralf Tomandl: I hated listening to other people's phone calls because
25:49
it always felt so intrusive.
25:51
Even though they knew they were being recorded, we, we say it at the beginning
25:54
of the call, like all these things, all the legal ramifications have been covered,
25:57
but it made me feel uncomfortable.
25:59
I'd rather sit next to them at the time it happens.
26:02
Right.
26:02
So now back to your question.
26:04
I would wanna sit in the morning huddle or the daily huddle when the
26:10
leader of the practice discusses the goal for either the day or the week.
26:15
Why?
26:16
I want to understand how well a leader communicates the
26:23
goals to their team members.
26:25
And I'm not saying.
26:28
What the goals are, are the goals achievable?
26:30
That's a whole nother thing.
26:31
Savanah Carlson: Mm-hmm.
26:32
Ralf Tomandl: Does the team do two things?
26:34
One, are they attentive, and two, do they actually comprehend what
26:40
is required of them to succeed?
26:43
It is.
26:43
It comes down to the why, and you would be surprised how often that doesn't happen.
26:48
They're being hired for something and they're like, I, I didn't
26:51
know anything to do with this.
26:52
And they're like, wait, you have been doing this job for seven
26:54
years, how are you not, you're not
26:56
Jen Steadman: doing that?
26:57
Ralf Tomandl: So.
26:58
If we could be part of something, it is that, because that is such
27:02
a measurement for a leader to, to be effective at communicating.
27:07
So, so that's where I would wanna sit and be.
27:09
Savanah Carlson: I love that you said that, Jen and I actually, we've talked
27:12
about the, the morning huddle as it is.
27:15
Yeah.
27:15
In a couple of our episodes we have, we've reframed it though.
27:19
We, we, in alignment with what you said is they're morning
27:22
opportunity meetings, right.
27:24
Opportunities.
27:25
To look at our KPIs and metrics and goals.
27:28
Opportunities for leadership.
27:29
Opportunities for communication, and making it a a to, because a huddle
27:35
I mean, at least in my perspective, it feels, it feels very rah rah.
27:38
When in those 15 minutes I need to get down to the meat and potatoes.
27:44
Like we say, we need to get down to the meat and potatoes.
27:45
Yeah.
27:46
See where our biggest opportunities lie for the most successful day ahead.
27:50
But I totally, I, and I love that that's where you would sit.
27:53
Mm-hmm.
27:55
Conversations
27:55
Ralf Tomandl: because it can also go stale, right?
27:57
Like so quickly.
27:58
And or it's like, no, what did you do over the weekend?
28:00
Mm-hmm.
28:00
Who cares, right?
28:01
I mean, you wanna talk about that?
28:02
No, but that's not, that's not the idea when you talk about patient care, right?
28:07
No.
28:07
Which is also super important.
28:08
And so, so there's a place for all of this, but it's not the
28:12
morning huddle, in my opinion.
28:13
So
28:13
Jen Steadman: that's, that is prior to, that's the pre.
28:17
Opportunity meeting is like the having your coffee or your breakfast
28:21
and talking about your weekend.
28:22
Yeah.
28:22
But that time is so important to set yourself up for the day.
28:27
And I think that's why a lot of practices out there have
28:30
stopped doing morning huddles.
28:32
They don't find them effective.
28:33
And I'm like, well that's probably because you don't have an agenda.
28:37
You're not going over the things that are going to help to move the needle.
28:42
The majority of them just look at the schedule.
28:44
Yeah.
28:45
Leadership.
28:45
Exactly.
28:46
And they'll just say, oh, this, you know, Susie's coming in for bite wings and
28:49
a prophy today, and Bobby's coming in, and I'm like, that's on the schedule.
28:53
You don't need to talk about that.
28:55
Right.
28:55
If I look at that and see that you don't need to talk about it.
28:58
Ralf Tomandl: Yeah.
28:59
You need to, you need to challenge your employees to come with more than just
29:03
what is written in the, in the schedule.
29:05
Mm-hmm.
29:05
Absolutely.
29:05
Jen Steadman: Yeah,
29:06
Savanah Carlson: It's, I encourage people also too, to like look at a, a
29:10
doctor and team, a medical side, like pre-surgery hospital if, when they have
29:17
their pre-surgery meeting, if I was ever going to surgery and I heard my doctor.
29:23
My surgeon and the nurses talking about, going hiking the weekend
29:27
before and having like, their coffee from Dunking was terrible Today.
29:32
I would be like, take this kick out of me.
29:34
I'm out.
29:36
And we should be for this
29:37
Ralf Tomandl: one.
29:38
That's right.
29:39
That's right.
29:40
Yeah.
29:40
Savanah Carlson: We need to approach, I mean, and that's also an a dental industry
29:43
thing is that we're still catching up, but
29:48
Ralf Tomandl: mm-hmm.
29:48
Yeah, it, it's, look, I think it's also human nature, right?
29:51
Like so, so a friend of mine who is an orthopedic surgeon he freely
29:56
admits that they tell jokes and or, or talk about all kinds of things
30:00
while they're operating on people.
30:02
Once they are.
30:04
Anesthesia, right?
30:05
I'm like, I, I get that.
30:07
He's like, look, you need to understand like it's the routine
30:09
of like doing this and the other.
30:10
I'm like, well, what about the professionalism of the
30:12
medical care that you're doing?
30:13
He's like, yeah, but you know, like with everything, right?
30:16
I'm like, oh, okay.
30:17
And I, I don't think in, in the dental industry you have that, that, freedom
30:22
because your patients are, are most often, not just conscious, but sitting there in
30:27
both with high level of anxiety or fear.
30:29
Anxiety or fear.
30:31
Mm-hmm.
30:31
And, and your job really as, as a dentist and or anybody in the, in the, the
30:35
practice is, is to lower that temperature.
30:39
Right.
30:39
And, and have patients have a good experience.
30:42
Savanah Carlson: So in the, being in the dental office, um,
30:45
Ralf Tomandl: yeah.
30:46
Savanah Carlson: So let's say you are in the dental office as a patient
30:50
but you have this HR knowledge.
30:54
Where,
30:55
Ralf Tomandl: oh, I have stories
30:58
Savanah Carlson: I would love.
30:59
Okay.
31:00
So I would love if you could share one of those stories of like, it was an aha
31:06
or it was an uh, oh, kind of moment.
31:10
Ralf Tomandl: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:11
What is, what happens most often is that.
31:18
That internal things that are nonclinical are being shared with you
31:24
because practices are either designed and or set up in a way where there's
31:29
multiple chairs and you overhear things that you should not be overhearing.
31:35
Both clinical as well as personal, right?
31:38
Like so, so what has literally happened to me is, is that.
31:43
I'm sitting in an office chair waiting for treatment, and I overhear an argument
31:49
with a dentist and the associate why the associate cannot take time off and then
31:55
going through that, yes, in front of,
31:58
Savanah Carlson: drop it in front of you
32:02
Ralf Tomandl: is said.
32:02
Well, they were outside.
32:05
The room,
32:06
Savanah Carlson: the threshold
32:06
Ralf Tomandl: door was open.
32:07
Exactly.
32:08
And I'm like, you know, I have ears, right?
32:10
Like, you do understand that.
32:11
You can hear what you're saying and that, that you are reprimanding an associate,
32:16
uh, a dentist for, for not being able to take time off, which is, not appropriate
32:21
to do, um, in front of patients, in front of other staff, et cetera, et cetera.
32:25
So, yeah, I, I, I mean,
32:28
again, so a small environment.
32:31
Small environment.
32:33
It's, it doesn't matter if you, if you are part of a DS over 200 locations, the
32:37
moment you come to the location level, professionalism is the number one.
32:44
The number one is this.
32:45
I remember when I first went to, uh, dental shows.
32:50
Shout out back to Fred and Ron.
32:52
Joelle.
32:53
Savanah Carlson: Yeah,
32:54
Ralf Tomandl: so Ron, Ron was, was the, the head of sales and and operations.
32:58
And at the time, so this is, like I said, a long time ago, he says, you
33:02
need to understand the moment you step onto the airplane, not by the time
33:06
you arrive at the show, the moment you get to the plane, you are representing
33:11
us and you represent an industry.
33:16
Behave like you would like to be treated, right?
33:19
Like, don't be whoever you wanna be when you're going with your
33:23
friends to the beach and drink beer.
33:25
Right?
33:25
Like it is, that is completely unacceptable.
33:27
You are a professional and and I'm like, oh, okay.
33:30
And you would, I was always.
33:34
I wish I could tell you yes, I was an exemplary employee and I never had that.
33:37
I had to learn that.
33:39
Right.
33:39
And I had to be reminded.
33:40
But it's true.
33:41
Right?
33:41
And it's, it is true for the clinical setting.
33:46
The patients cannot talk clinical knowledge to you because they
33:50
don't have clinical knowledge.
33:52
Guess what they're talking about?
33:54
Their emotional experience, their pain, the cost, how they've been treated by
33:59
the, the, the chairside person, how they've been treated by the hygienist.
34:03
That's what it's all feeling.
34:04
That's what they talk about.
34:06
So that, that's why this is so, so inappropriate and,
34:08
and should never happen.
34:11
Savanah Carlson: And you know what?
34:12
And the sad thing is it happens, uh.
34:15
All the time.
34:16
The leadership conversations that I've had to have mm-hmm.
34:18
With team members and reminders and then it comes down to like, you are an amazing
34:24
clinician, but dear God, I need to invest in communication skills for you and
34:30
soft skills and more leadership classes so we can get your level of clinical
34:35
knowledge up to your communication level.
34:38
Right.
34:38
And awareness level too.
34:41
Right.
34:41
Yeah.
34:42
Jen, do you have one more question for Mr. Ralph?
34:45
Jen Steadman: Okay, here's one more.
34:47
You ready?
34:48
Sorry, the last one was a little juicy.
34:50
So here we go.
34:51
What is one hard truth about leadership in leading a teams that most dental
34:59
leaders avoid but they shouldn't?
35:03
Ralf Tomandl: So, look I, I think that, it kind of ties into what we
35:07
were say saying before a little bit.
35:09
Ultimately when it comes down to dental teams work in a very intimate setting.
35:15
And I think that you as a leader.
35:19
Have to set a very high standard that you follow so your employees know
35:26
the difference where professionally begins and where it ends.
35:32
And so, so what I mean by this is, is like if we are it, if you have a
35:39
leader who, when the patient leaves the practice and there's no more patients.
35:47
And then starts badmouthing a patient behind their back of saying, can you
35:52
believe this patient behaved this way?
35:54
Or can you believe that this and this, and this is, is what happened?
35:57
Guess what your team members think does, do they do this when I'm not here?
36:04
So that's poor leadership.
36:05
That's what I mean.
36:07
What I mean by this, like you have to set a professional standard
36:10
that you have to adhere to that allows people to feel comfortable.
36:15
And look, I'm not talking about people not having fun at work
36:19
and or being friendly with.
36:21
That's not what I'm talking about.
36:22
But you have to have a certain professional standard that.
36:27
People feel comfortable in, people feel supported in, people understand
36:31
what's going on, and I think that is really, really important
36:34
for you as a leader to do that.
36:37
When you lead a team, you have to absolutely do, it has to be
36:40
clear, like, do not talk badly.
36:43
Do not do this.
36:44
Like there's a, there's a place for this, but it's not in public.
36:48
It has to be in private.
36:50
Mm-hmm.
36:50
Um, is there, i I learned this in the military is is that it was the first time
36:57
I, I was exposed to leadership, right?
36:58
Like, so the, the military is a very, very hierarchy driven environment.
37:03
And the first thing I learned from a, frankly, my drill sergeant, like right
37:08
in week one is, is that you always.
37:12
Make sure that when you have something positive to say, you say
37:15
it in front of the entire group.
37:17
But you reprimand and or teach.
37:21
In private or on a small group or in a way where everybody
37:25
else can learn from it, right?
37:28
So reprimanding in public in a negative manner or behaving badly and or gossipy
37:35
or whatever is a poor leadership skill.
37:37
And it, it comes back to your team and, and your, your team
37:40
will take advantage of you.
37:42
Savanah Carlson: Yeah.
37:42
And I think that's a lack of, of confidence in the leader themselves is
37:46
that they're unable to have a direct conversation with that team member who
37:51
may be underperforming or, or who may need to have that hard conversation.
37:56
And they, they don't know how, they don't, they themselves as a leader don't have
38:01
the, a ability to have that effective communication with the team member.
38:06
So they say, well, agreed, if I say in front of the whole team mm-hmm.
38:09
Maybe it'll stick.
38:10
And that's just like right.
38:12
Ralf Tomandl: Or they, they want they feel like they need to bond
38:15
with their employees on, you know, on a gossipy level, right?
38:18
And it's like, no, don't do that.
38:20
Right?
38:20
Like, because if you set a professional standard, it is so much easier for you
38:24
to have a conversation about the hard things because you have that standard.
38:28
Right.
38:29
Like, but if you're like, all bosom buddy, ha ha ha, can you
38:31
believe what this patient did?
38:33
And then you go like, Hey, by the way, your performance really sucked.
38:35
That's very, very hard to do.
38:37
Right?
38:37
Because you, you set a very low bar and then the employee goes like,
38:41
well, you can't possibly mean it because I know that we are gossiping.
38:44
So that, that is where this comes in, in my opinion.
38:46
Jen Steadman: Yeah.
38:46
'cause you said something there too, like, look, when you say something
38:49
like that about the patient, your team member wonders like, what do
38:52
they say about me when I'm not here?
38:54
But it also makes it okay.
38:56
For your team to do the exact same thing, so you cannot reprimand them
39:01
if they say something that you don't like, but they're doing it in the
39:04
same manner in which you did it.
39:06
Like you can't.
39:07
That's right.
39:07
You can't do that.
39:08
You have to be able to if you're setting those expectations, like
39:12
first of all, you need to make sure, like can you physically follow them?
39:15
Like hold yourself to the same.
39:17
And I love it when teams have the culture of.
39:22
Standing up for those expectations to everyone.
39:26
For example, like Ralph say, like, you are the doctor.
39:29
You set the expectations and you gossip about someone.
39:32
I could say, Hey, um, yeah, remember we, we've talked about this.
39:37
Like, I just, I'm holding you to the expectations that were set.
39:40
So then truth to
39:41
Ralf Tomandl: power.
39:41
Jen Steadman: Awesome.
39:42
Ha.
39:42
Yes.
39:42
Having that just circle mm-hmm.
39:44
That you can just, help everyone stay at that level.
39:47
'cause sometimes, hey, we slip, we are all human.
39:49
We make totally.
39:51
Yeah, we,
39:51
Ralf Tomandl: I totally agree.
39:52
I think that that is such a good point because we all need reminders, right?
39:56
Like, it is, like, I, I, I spoke a couple of weeks ago, um, on a
40:00
similar topic, and I said all my employees love me all the time.
40:05
100% without fail.
40:07
Has no one ever said, ever, right?
40:10
Like it's like, it's just not happening, right?
40:12
Like the, the sheer fact you, no matter what you do, you cannot please everybody.
40:18
But you can communicate about it properly and you can, you can make sure
40:22
that, that both you are being heard.
40:25
The goal is being communicated with properly and they know why they're
40:28
having to do what they have to do.
40:30
And then you can have a conversation around, okay, so what are we gonna do if
40:33
it's not working, et cetera, et cetera.
40:35
Right?
40:35
I always told, tell my doctors, yes, we are called HR for
40:38
health, but we really are.
40:40
The big part is the, the h, which just the human right, like the human aspect
40:44
in this is just the most important part for you to succeed, right?
40:47
The rest falls into place.
40:49
Savanah Carlson: Yeah, speaking of human Ralph, I was looking
40:53
through some information about you and I read that Love to Cook.
40:58
Jen Steadman: I do.
40:59
Savanah Carlson: What, what do you love to cook?
41:01
Let's humanize this now.
41:03
Oh yeah.
41:04
Ralf Tomandl: Bob, where do I start?
41:06
So part of what I love about cooking is the entertainment factor.
41:11
I love, I love cooking for others, right?
41:13
Like, I obviously love to eat, but I love to entertain.
41:16
I love to have people over and cook for others.
41:18
That's my emotional, right.
41:20
Like it is, like, it's the ability to cook for others and then break
41:23
bread together is really important.
41:25
Now I may have to admit that I have a slight obsession
41:29
with making the perfect pizza.
41:32
And what I mean by this yes, ladies what I mean by.
41:37
Jen Steadman: You would, you'd
41:38
Ralf Tomandl: have
41:38
Jen Steadman: to with my husband.
41:39
'cause my husband's a pizza guy too.
41:41
Mm-hmm.
41:42
Ralf Tomandl: So, mm-hmm.
41:43
Jen Steadman: Tell us,
41:45
Ralf Tomandl: I, so, first of all, I'm married to a saint.
41:49
She has allowed me to redesign my backyard and built a wood-burning pizza oven in my
41:55
backyard so I can fully Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:58
I'm nuts.
41:59
Don't get hard.
41:59
Hard
42:00
Chris Stone: to get Ralph.
42:01
Ralf Tomandl: Y Yeah, yeah.
42:03
No.
42:03
So I buy very, very specific flour milled, grown and milled in Italy to make sure
42:10
that it is the proper Yeah, I know.
42:12
I'm completely crazy.
42:13
Yeah.
42:13
Yeah.
42:14
You ask questions.
42:15
I'm passionate.
42:16
You're
42:16
Jen Steadman: passionate.
42:16
That's not crazy.
42:17
Hundred
42:18
Ralf Tomandl: percent.
42:18
Jen Steadman: Like people, we, we love this.
42:21
Ralf Tomandl: So I have, so I. I, I, I know I have a schedule every month of
42:28
how a hydration schedule to make sure that at different times of the year, you
42:34
need to hydrate your dough differently.
42:36
IE less water, more flour, et cetera, et cetera, in order to
42:39
get the perfect dough every time.
42:41
So there's that.
42:42
I've literally been doing this for the last 15 years of my life.
42:45
I have a personal source for wood where I go and check out either the almond
42:51
wood that I get or California oak to make sure that that is what it is, that
42:55
it's been stored properly, that has been stored long enough, and that the
42:58
fire burns the exact way it has to burn.
43:01
Ladies, I'm completely insane when it comes to that.
43:04
I'm obsessed.
43:06
Savanah Carlson: Okay.
43:06
The way you are with pizza and your hydration levels.
43:09
Yeah.
43:09
That's the way I am with my sourdough bread.
43:12
Ralf Tomandl: Totally.
43:12
Yes.
43:13
You, yeah, you and I are kindred spirits.
43:15
Yes.
43:16
See, I will share a photo with you on my, uh, my pizza, which you can also
43:19
put in the line later for people to actually see that, that we are not lying.
43:23
Savanah Carlson: Put it in.
43:24
I'll put it in, in the YouTube version of this.
43:26
I will insert it here where my finger is.
43:29
You'll see the,
43:31
Ralf Tomandl: I'm obsessed, sorry.
43:33
Savanah Carlson: You don't ever apologize for pizza ever?
43:35
Jen Steadman: No.
43:36
So my husband makes pizza too, and one of my favorites is Italian sausage.
43:41
Yeah.
43:41
Yeah.
43:41
With either Shalls or cam caramelized onions in ricotta.
43:45
Ralf Tomandl: Yes.
43:46
Yes.
43:47
Okay.
43:47
Okay.
43:48
Okay.
43:48
So all, uh, we can cut this out.
43:52
We don't have to do this in there but, so there's, there's, so I
43:54
was born and raised in Germany.
43:56
Right.
43:56
And so I grew up in the Rhine Valley.
43:58
And the Rhine Valley is a to, to the west is, is Al Lorraine.
44:01
And to the right is, this is where I grew up on the, on the Eastern.
44:05
Shore of the Rhine Valley and the Rhine Valley has a, I'm gonna call it a, a
44:11
German pizza, a, a variation of what a pizza is, and it is essentially a white
44:16
pizza, so it's not tomato-based right?
44:19
But the only two ingredients are creme fresh with caramelized onions and bacon.
44:25
Jen Steadman: Oh yes.
44:28
Savanah Carlson: Oh, we're gonna Germany, Brian
44:31
Ralf Tomandl: and I can, I'll make that for you.
44:32
I will make this for you.
44:33
I have friends who only come over to our house when I make that meal.
44:37
They're like, no, I don't want anything else.
44:38
Yeah.
44:39
I'm like, yeah.
44:40
So yeah,
44:40
Savanah Carlson: we have a separate section of, of our podcast called Beyond
44:44
the Break Room, and it's where we, like, there is absolutely no HR involved.
44:49
That's like,
44:50
Ralf Tomandl: we should have started with that.
44:51
We would've never talked about leadership where you are.
44:55
Savanah Carlson: Well, we also wanna, who
44:56
Ralf Tomandl: cares
44:56
Savanah Carlson: who you're,
44:58
Ralf Tomandl: who cares about everything else?
44:59
If there's good pizza.
45:00
Savanah Carlson: That's true.
45:01
Jen Steadman: Exactly.
45:02
Savanah Carlson: I think that's gonna be the title of this episode.
45:04
Who cares about everything else?
45:05
As long as there's good pizza.
45:06
As long
45:07
Jen Steadman: as there's pizza.
45:07
Savanah Carlson: Right.
45:08
Jen Steadman: Gimme a good pie.
45:09
And I'm all set.
45:10
Savanah Carlson: Good.
45:10
On that note, I think I need to go have a slice of pie because I,
45:15
Ralf Tomandl: there we
45:16
Savanah Carlson: go.
45:16
Gonna be hungry.
45:16
I'm gonna have to go make a salad note.
45:17
I'm
45:18
Ralf Tomandl: so sorry.
45:19
Jen Steadman: Yeah,
45:19
Savanah Carlson: it's
45:19
Ralf Tomandl: okay.
45:19
Yeah, I'm looking forward to hosting you guys.
45:21
Savanah Carlson: Yeah, we're looking, we're looking forward to it too.
45:24
Don't get us wrong, but thank you so much for sitting with us today,
45:30
chatting, HR and leadership, and, uh, answering our candid questions.
45:34
Ralf Tomandl: You're very welcome.
45:35
Thanks for having me, you guys.
45:38
Savanah Carlson: Bye everyone.
45:42
Thanks for spending a few minutes with us on back in 10.
45:44
Jen Steadman: If something made you laugh, nod or feel a little more
45:47
human, share it with a friend and make sure that you're subscribed.
45:51
Savanah Carlson: You can also follow us on Instagram at Back in
45:53
10 Pod for more behind the scenes updates and probably a little chaos.
45:59
Jen Steadman: We're not here to have it all figured out.
46:01
We are just here to tell you the things that we wish someone had told us
46:06
Savanah Carlson: and remind you that leadership doesn't
46:07
have to be perfect, just real.
46:11
Jen Steadman: We'll be back in 10 in
46:12
10.