Latest / Crime Night / Kawkab: Unfit for Human Use

Transcript

Kawkab: Unfit for Human Use · Crime Night

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Imagine this. It's two am.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: The air is thick with that sharp hospital smell, disinfectant,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: and there's this hushed urgency. You hear sirens far off,
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: footsteps rushing. Yeah, that classic er tension exactly. Then the
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: automatic doors slide open at Almaterrea General Hospital. Two people
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: stumble in, a man, a woman. Their faces are just
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: tight with panic. They're carrying a little girl, maybe twelve.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: She's limp, unresponsive. But here's the thing. Her clothes clean,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: hair damp, like she's just been bathed.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: It's odd that detail stands out immediately, doesn't.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: It It really does. They tell the staff she ate
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: something bad, poison just collapsed.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, the standard explanation, maybe, but.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Something feels instantly wrong. The medical team jumps in, does
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: their work, and then just moments later the truth. She's
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: already gone, not unconscious, deceased, and the parents or the
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: adults with her. Their reaction it's not grief, it's pure panic.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: They try to bolt, to run. This is where the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: story of cock Cob truly begins. And while you're about
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to dive deep into something that challenges everything you think
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: you know about human nature.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: It sounds absolutely chilling already.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's try to unpack this, because you know, to
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: really get what led to that hospital scene, we absolutely
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: have to rewind.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Right that initial shock. It raises so many questions, a.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Big one being who is co Cob? What twists the
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: life of family into that?
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Well, what's really fascinating or perhaps deeply disturbing here is
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: how it all starts. It doesn't begin with outright horror, no, no,
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: it begins with a facade, a veneer of normalcy, respectability
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: even but it slowly, insidiously just unravels.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: So where do we start.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: We need to go back fourteen years, Yeah, back to
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. We're in the Almeterrea district, a
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: place called Aliquad.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Aliquad, Okay, and who do we meet there?
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: This is where we first meet Hatti. The sources paint
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: him as well, a genuinely decent guy. Respected, yeah, respected, hardworking,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: free trader from a good family, lived in the house
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: his father built. He was ready to settle down.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Sounds like a solid foundation.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: It should have been. And that year, two thousand and eight,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: he chose co Cob. She was young, eighteen and her
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: background seemed okay on the surface, humble family, she had
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: striking features apparently, and this strong personality.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: But you said seemed well, yeah.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: The source is dig a bit deeper, the reveal she
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: was actually profoundly rebellious, always dissatisfied, always convinced only she
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: was right about everything.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's a potential red flag, a big one.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: But Hatty, he was financially stable and they married.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Quickly, and how did that go smoothly?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Not at all? This is where it gets really interesting
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: and disturbing. From literally day one, ka Cob started to
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: dismantle Hatty's life, how so, criticizing everything, his work, his friends,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: even his own family. It was her way or constant misery.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: For him, constant misery right, and Hatty's reaction, this.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Is what's so striking. He just complied, quietly, went along
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: with it, and when her criticisms made no sense.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Like he believed her.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: It's described as if he had this internal conviction she
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: was always right, no evidence needed. He just folded, Which
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: brings up that crucial question, doesn't it. How does someone
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: gain that kind of absolute psychological control over another person.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying to think about that slow erosion of self
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: worth exactly.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: It's textbook course of control, your reality gets warped until
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: you doubt yourself completely.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And her influence wasn't just on haughty.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: No, she lived in this bubble, bad relationship with her
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: own family, no friends, a semi secret world.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: It's called isolated.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Very. Then two years in twenty ten, their first daughter,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Jana was born.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, maybe a child changes.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Things for Hati, Yes, Janet became his entire world, his
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: reason for everything. But for cock Cob, it seems that
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: dynamic didn't change that joy. Hatty felt it was tainted.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Cock Cob still made him feel constantly wrong, made.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Him hate himself and the family.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Thing she doubled down convinced him is family whose sources
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: they were actually fine and kept to themselves, were envious
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: and spiteful.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Just poisoning the well.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Constantly, relentlessly. It's described as psychological pressure stronger than magic,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: just grinding him down.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And then another child two years later.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, their second daughter, Pharah was born. Now how he
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: had two anchors, two reasons to stay, to endure.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: He felt he had to protect them.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, he knew they'd have no one if he wasn't there,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: And the sources are clear. K Cob treated both girls
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: very badly right from the start.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Cod imagine living like that, being told you're wrong every
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: single day for years.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Hatty aged prematurely crushed by anxiety depression, ten years, they say,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: without a peaceful night's.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Sleep, always afraid for the girls.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Always knowing cow Cow wouldn't change. And if he even
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: asked where she'd been when she disappeared without a word,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: it got worse, much worse. A brutal wave of negativity,
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: just says, this incredibly tragic stage. By this point, Jana's
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: twelve farres ten.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: So after all those years, fourteen years of this, this
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: relentless pressure, this sacrifice, what happens next?
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: The next chapter unfolds in twenty twenty two. Hatty comes
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: home from work one day, goes to sleep, and he
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: never wakes up.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, just like that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: It's just like that officially as death was ruled natural.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: But you just have to wonder, don't you.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: About the toll, the sheer weight of that stress, that
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: depression for so long.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Exactly what does fourteen years of that kind of psychological
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: torture do to a person physically? It's hard not to
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: connect the dots, even if we can't prove it medically.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So Hatty's gone.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: You'd expect, I don't know, some period of grief from
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Ka Cobb, some reflection after fourteen years, two kids.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: You'd think so. But kon Cobb's reaction was well immediate
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: and aggressive. Just one month after Hetty died, she started
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: conflicts with who with Hatty's family, criticizing them, trying to
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: impose her will. Remember, she's still living in the apartment
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: in their family home.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Right surrounded by people who knew Hatty is whole life,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: and she.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Just picks up where she left off or worse pretty much.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: She continued her old pattern too, disappearing, leaving the girls
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: locked in the apartment alone.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, the girls are alone, locked in Yeah.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: And when Hatty's family completely understandably got worried and asked her,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: you know where were you?
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: You can't just leave them.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: She reacted badly.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Furious She'd had fourteen years of zero accountability with Hatty.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: She saw their concern as an attack, an invasion, refuse
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: any advice, just saw it as interference, exactly, pure interference
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: in her world.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: So how long did that last her staying in the family.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Home not long. Things escalated fast. Within just two months
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: of Hatty's death, she took the girls and moved out.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Where did she go to her own mother's house?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, maybe some family support there.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Initially yes, her mother welcomed them, but ka Cob didn't
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: change her ways, still constantly out, still neglecting the.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Girls, and her mother put up with it, not for long.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: After a short while, her mother laid down the law,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: respect the rules, take care of your kids.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Or leave, and Kakob's response.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Predictable, wasn't it? Refused to be controlled, refused any limits.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: So she left her mother's place too.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: She did. Just three months after Hatty died, she took
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Janna and Farah and rented a new apartment, same district, Almaterea,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: but a more isolated.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Area, this time isolated that feels significant.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: It turns out it was very significant, and things moved
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: incredibly fast from there, chillingly fast. Within just one week
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: of moving into that new apartment, a new person enters
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: the picture. Oho Arak, her thirty four year old neighbor, unmarried,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: lived in the same building, and he becomes important instantly.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: He became the absolute center of her world, moved right
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: into the space Haughty used to occupy metaphorically.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Speaking, so neighbors notice.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Tarak was there constantly. Kakab even started telling
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: people they were married.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Were they No.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: It seems their relationship was intimate like a married couple's,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: but they lived outside the law, completely unofficial.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, so k Cob finds a new partner almost immediately,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: But what about the girls, Jana and Parah.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: This is where it takes an absolutely horrific turn. This
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: new relationship brought violence, violence from Terrek.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, Trek started beating Dauna and Pharah violently under the
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: guise of disciplining them.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Disciplining beating, and the sources are explicit. Ka Cob knew
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: she consented. It wasn't just occasional anger. It was systematic torture, kerture.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, did anyone know? Did the neighbors hear anything?
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: They did? The neighbors often heard the children screaming, heart
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: wrenching cries.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Did they try to help?
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Some did? They'd come down, knock on the door, try
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: to intervene at a concern and co Cob and to
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Rek they'd scream, back, mind your own business. Cock Cob
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: would even say to Rek.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Was like their father defending him while he's beating her.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Children defending him, and that's where you see that awful
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: bise Tander effect maybe or just the difficulty of intervening.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: People couldn't see inside. They were aggressively pushed away. They
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: tragically didn't grasp the full horror.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: So this abuse was happening behind closed doors, but the
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: sounds were getting out exactly.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: For four months, this pattern continued. The beatings, the screams
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: were now seven months after Hotty's death, and this violence
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: is just dismissed by them as discipline.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: They even had a line they used.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, chillingly manipulative. When neighbors try to step in,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: they'd say, don't interfere. The man is doing a good
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: deed by raising.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: The girls, a good deed, raising them through beatings.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Unbelievable, isn't it, which.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Brings us full circle, doesn't it? Back to that hospital
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: two am, Back.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: To that awful scene. Kacab and Trek arrived with twelve.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Year old Johna and she was clean, bathed, new clothes.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: That detail is still so disturbing.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: It really is a calculated detail, perhaps, Yeah, and they
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: stick to the story poisoned food, lost consciousness.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: But the medical team saw it instantly.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Immediately they knew she was deceased on arrival, and when
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: they examined her body more closely, the truth started coming out. Injuries,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: clear signs, fresh injuries, old injuries both. But it wasn't
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: just the physical state of the child. What else It
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: was caught Cobin to rec the tension, the panic radiating
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: off them. It was palpable.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: So when the doctors told them Johna was dead, that's.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: When they tried to run, desperate attempt to flee, but
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: the hospital staff security.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: They held them until the police arrived.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Until the police arrived, and.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: What could call Cob and torect tell the police?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Initially Kakab identified herself as the mother, obviously, but to
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: rec she called him just a good neighbor. A good neighbor, yeah,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: someone who was just kind enough not to leave her
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: alone in this situation.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Did the police buy that.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Not for a second. Experienced officers, they can often sense deceit.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: They saw through it almost.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Instantly, and Jana's body told its own.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Story, a horrific one. The police examination found extensive bruising, marx,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: severe blows all over her body, yes, and crucially, ligature
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: marks on her hands and feet. She'd been tied up
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: and a distinct, deep wound on her head. They were
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: immediately arrested. Jana's body sent for forensic examination.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: The forensic report, I can only imagine.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: It was beyond shocking for a twelve year old child. Yeah,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: just devastating. It confirmed long term abuse and torture, long
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: term stating most injuries were over three months old. There
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: were burn marks stings, likely from a heated metal object
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: like a spoon.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Burns too.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: This is a monstrous and even more disturbing traces of
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: wood fragments in her scalp, Other parts of her body
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: with fragments from being beaten with a wooden stick. That
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: head wound especially pointed to a severe blow with a
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: wooden club. Wood traces right in her.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Scalp, a wooden club.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: The conclusion was stark. After all this torture, Jina suffered
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: massive blood loss, lost consciousness, went into circulatory collapse, and died.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Did Cobb and Tarek keep denying it?
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Initially? Yes, Cock Cob clung desperately to the poisoning story,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: but the forensics undeniable, absolute proof. When confronted with that,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: they both broke They.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Confessed, and the confession revealed just.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: The depth of their inhumanity. The sources call them the
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: most despicable two people you could ever hear about.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: What exactly do they confess.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: To Torek, with cock COB's full knowledge, her full consent,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: systematically tortured both girls, Jana and Pharah, both.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Of them using what methods.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Described only as the most difficult methods of torture, just brutal,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: unimaginable ways.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: And the girls knew, they sensed something was wrong with
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: the relationship between co Cob and Terrect.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: They were aware it was unnatural. Yes, they couldn't fully
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: grasp or explain it, being so young, but they knew
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: it was wrong. And cock Cob never showed a shred
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: of remorse or care, not for a moment.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: So what happened on the day Jana died, what was
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the final trigger?
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: It was the ultimate horror. Johanna, just twelve, woke up
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: and she saw Cocab and Trek engaged in an indie
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: act right there in the apartment.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: She witnessed something she shouldn't.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Have exactly, and to silence her to wreck, grabbed a
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: wooden bed slat.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: A bed slat like the piece that holds up the
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: mattress that's right.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: And he beat her with it, Yeah, repeatedly, aiming for
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: her body, her head. Yeah, beat her until the slat
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: itself broke. They just kept going until she collapsed, lost consciousness,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: and then lost her life.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And kak Cobb's reaction to her own daughter dying.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Right there, not grief, not shock, chilling calculation, calculation. Immediately
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: she took Jana's body to the bathroom, washed away the blood,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: the evidence, dressed her in those clean clothes, preparing the
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: cover story. Preparing the cover story. Then with Torek off
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: to the hospital with a poison lie, hoping for a
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: death certificate, hoping to get away with it all.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Her only thought was saving herself and him, That's.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: What it seems, saving themselves from the consequences of their
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: own horrific actions.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So after everything, this deep dive into such darkness, what
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: does it all mean?
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: What happens next?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Well, the chilling reality is that justice did eventually catch
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: up to them.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: They were brought to justice, Yes.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: After their confessions. The evidence was overwhelming, and Hatti's family
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: remember them, the ones k Cob alienated, Yeah.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: The family she turned haughty against.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: They stepped forward without hesitation. They took in Pharah, the
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: younger daughter.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Phara survived.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Phara survived and at just ten years old, she corroborated
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: everything confirmed. The torture confirmed. She suffered too often, even
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: worse than Joha.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, that poor child, what she must have endured unimaginable.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Following the investigation, the confessions, the evidence, Coocab and Trek
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: were both sentenced.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: What was the sentence?
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: There were sentenced to death.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: This whole story, it leaves you reeling thinking about Hati
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: fourteen years of that dread, that torment, likely shortening his
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: own life.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and then Jena just tragic innocence destroyed by unimaginable
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: cruelty from her own mother and this man.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: It really forces you to in front the extremes of
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: human behavior, doesn't it How things can escalate behind closed doors?
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: It does. It brings home a really stark truth that
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: some individuals seem to operate completely without empathy, without remorse,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: acting in ways that just defy reason.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with no discernible benefit even to themselves. Sometimes it
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: just seems purely destructive, which.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Really underscores how vital it is to recognize signs of abuse,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: subtle or not, and the need for a society that's vigilant,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: that protects its most vulnerable members.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: It makes you wonder what other horrors might be hidden
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: behind closed doors, masked by that deceptive calm, or dismissed
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: as you know, private matters.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: And how do we learn to see it, How do
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: we intervene effectively before it reaches a point like this,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: before it's too late.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: That's a really powerful question, something for all of us,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I think, to carry with us and reflect on.