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A Shift in Perspective · The Hearing God Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_05: I'm Anthony Moore.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm Dan Lamus.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_05: For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we invite you into these weekly conversations.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_05: So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, here we are.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: So how's it going, Dan?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's been going good.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: So we're Tell me how.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me how good it's going.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: How good has it been going?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_05: It has been going so good.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, you know, I I think uh the thing that was on my mind for our conversation today uh was just um dealing with uh you you ask God for more opportunities, more open doors, ask him to use your life how he will.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: And then things begin to get busier.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_05: Your schedule starts to get interrupted and full.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_05: And in our humanness, we tend to forget that we prayed.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_05: God involve me in what you're doing.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_05: And uh God has just been lovingly, as a father and a son does, lovingly encouraging me to say, Hey, what if you received a memo that the great move of God you've been praying for has started?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yep, and you are in the middle of it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_05: And so here's a whole bunch of ways that you get to plug into it this week.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_05: Would that change your perspective?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, Yeah, that would totally change my perspective.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_05: And he was like, Well, guess what?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_05: Here you here you go.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_05: Here you go.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_05: There's a rising tide of what God's doing in our in our region.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't know if it's just me playing with a wonderful idea or if maybe God is actually reminding me, hey, you are in the midst of something and be grateful.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, be grateful for what I'm doing.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_05: And why not perceive more opportunity, more people, more needs, more more ways to plug in?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_05: Why not see that as a rising tide, uh, you know, an increasing flood of what God wants to do?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I and I was just uh I was chatting with someone this morning and just reflecting on the fact that it uh that it seems as though, at least from my perspective, like the things that I'm aware of, it seems as though uh we are like the water level is rising, right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not uh maybe not the way that you know five or six years ago that I thought it would, right?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Agree, but maybe it would be but it would be it's rising in, but it's undeniable.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like just the things, it's people, it's people that I'm meeting, it's things that I'm noticing, and like even their reasons for being here, right?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's conversations I'm having, and being here in the region, being here, well, both both in our house, you know, at our church, but also in the region as well.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, I had the a chance to go to just attend a two-day conference a few days ago, and was also just aware at the level of hunger that that even and in you know, in my circles and the things that I'm seeing, I'm seeing that rising tide as well.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like I was just exposed to a whole new group of people, you know, where they're also you know sensing a rising level of hunger, and they're just in the room seeking God for whatever yes, yeah.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: You have our yes, and you know, and we've we've been paying the cost, like the paying the price to position ourselves to be, you know, to be vessels of what you want to do in and through us and your the church in this region.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And just I was just like we've paid the price and we'll continue to pay the price because Jesus, we see your worth, we see your beauty, and we're all in, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like our spend our lives as as you will.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I and I would say that like there's just an awareness, again, like just this this rising tide.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right, you know, and and and again, you know, we've we've heard this uh said before, uh, where people will come from other from away.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: They'll either come from away, come from another church, uh, come from you know, the states, different place in Canada, those kinds of places.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: They'll come to come here and they'll be aware, like something's happening here.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_05: Even though this isn't this isn't normal, this isn't usual, something unusual is happening here.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I had a friend, a friend of mine articulate it in this way where you know, that sentiment he was sort of relaying someone else that said that to him.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, you know, someone had expressed a desire, hey, can we just come and visit and just see what God is doing?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he was sort of like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, we don't, we don't even like, wait, just wait, we're not quite ready, or we don't quite even know how to articulate what God is doing other than this, yeah, other than just this collective sense that God is up to something.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we are starting to see, because again, it isn't like, you know, uh maybe moves of God or revivals in the past where people flood to a certain place yet, uh, or to, you know, different churches or different houses where God is like, you know, in the traditional sense, you would have, you know, hours and hours of church services or uh your prayer rooms are packed or uh worship services are going extra long, or you know, there's altar calls and people coming off the streets.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: There, there aren't necessarily those specific signs that maybe from revivals of old, but all I could say is is that there's a collective sense that the that the tide is still continues to rise.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Where we are seeing a little bit, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I just rem someone told me a story uh last week of something like that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Someone was driving by the, you know, somebody was driving by the church and felt compelled to come in during on a Sunday morning and come into the service and then encountered encountered God while they were in the service.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like it's like it's not en masse, but we are seeing uh probably trickles, trickles of that.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I just heard uh I heard another story about that this just either either in the last few days or at least in the last week or so, where it is like it just it feels like God's given us these these breadcrumbs of stuff that he of things that he is doing, and maybe it's almost even like an invitation to say, are you are you paying attention to what I'm doing?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so and again for my that's yeah, that's it, that's a great, that's a great question in the middle of that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: Like a conversation God took me to in the book of Ezekiel there a year or two ago.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like where he where he led Ezekiel down to the edge of the river, and he said, Do you see this?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, when God asked you, are you paying attention?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, if you're asking me, it's a possibility that I'm not really paying attention.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: But that is the feeling that's what been the feeling with me, and I'm I'm grateful for it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe it maybe it's even just worth saying, man, it's it's fair game to to say humanly when God's moving in an unusual way, yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's fair game to say most people are gonna have a bit of a tug of war over that, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like we want it, but it is gonna inconvenience us, it's in real time, yeah, real things that you wanted to do.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_05: You might not get to do them right now when you wanted to, totally because God's moving in this way, yeah, and like that's a real thing, and it doesn't mean you're missing the move of God.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_05: It may be that he's actually because of the move of God, he's rearranging things in and around you, and humanly speaking, it it is gonna be a little bit of a jarring thing, and yeah, it's a little bit of work to adjust to what God's doing, and that's all that's okay.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_05: Like you're in a good spot if that's happening.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say this, it it is I you know, there's when you know, when we talk about things that we're sensing, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: That that things are there's a little bit of an abstract or of vagueness, though there is a measure of certainty to like we're all collectively we're starting to become aware of something or we're perceiving.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think, you know, without being too absolute about what we we think this is, I think there's this there's a growing certainty that God is indeed, not only is He is He moving, I think we could say that with a measure, but that it is unto something, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: It is right.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: We are there's a growing certainty that this isn't this isn't just a little bit of a rising tide and then ebb.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: There is a continu like I think there's an a sense of expectancy that's that's growing in pastors and leaders that I'm talking to uh about that this is actually there's no expectation that this is gonna ebb anytime soon.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_05: Like so a growing certainty with an objective.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, like a growing certainty, and it's onto something, like you said.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's great.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's a great way to capture it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, yes, Lord.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like this isn't just to just for feel good reasons.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_05: Right, right.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_05: This is God, you are on mission, you are this is going, this is onto something that we haven't arrived at yet.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Correct, right?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't so that like so we can all get around and talk about what we feel like God is doing, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't yeah, it isn't even so that we could have, you know, we could travel around and have you know conferences around the region or even worship services or prayer meetings around the region just for the sake of doing that, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is for the it is so that like you know that that that his people, that God's people in this region would begin to see, hear, and agree with God's heart, yeah, so that I think number one, like, and you can say this a a bunch of different ways.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, the kingdom advances, that uh everyone who will will come to the saving knowledge of Jesus.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that that ultimate ultimately that King Jesus is glorified in this region, yeah, as he is in heaven.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I think there is a I just it seems within, you know, some I saw some old friends and some new friends, and it feels as though, you know, there's just this weighty sense that the that the tide continues to rise.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that was just a that was a beautiful, you know, for for my part, just a beautiful little gift.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think I'd like to wake up every morning remembering that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: I'd like to not lose track of that.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_05: I would like to, I it would be amazing.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, if the Holy Spirit were to say to one of us, some of us and people are listening, wow, you're just believing too much in the move of God.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, you're just believing too much.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm just gonna hang out today, Dan.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't know that God would ever say that, but yeah, I would love to not forget what we're talking about.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like this, like I that but I feel like what we're talking about is so substantial and and real and in real time that I don't want to lose track of that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like I want to say yes, God.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_05: Like I would like to, yeah, I would like to press in and and run after this until you say you can stop running after that, you know.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think um really just to say amen to what really just that God is doing, uh there is something I just I had on my no, it's not your fault.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: I got you, I got going there.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I just I think there's a a couple things is just just being aware and just saying more and and and and being grateful for the invitation, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like that God, you're that you've counted me worthy at some measure to be let in on what you're doing.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and I have just seen I've just seen that on a on a large, I feel like I've seen that on a larger scale, uh, a little bit.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I got a little glimpse into another, maybe another, you know, another space and another group of people that are really hungry for a move of God and and feel as though, you know, it's it's happening.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So love it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh how how are you doing?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I mean you kind of kind of been talking about it.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Just and I feel good about where we are, um, you know, in the midst of still it's still being a mixed bag.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it it continues to be, and I don't ever anticipate that changing.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just coming to terms with it, and it is what it is.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is what it is.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: But the but best of all, God's with us.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: That is the maritime paraphrase of mixed bag.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it is what it is, it is what it is.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: That and uh how's it going?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, it's going.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_05: That just means whatever you need it to mean.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's good, man.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um, oh, I will I want to say this though.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is really cool.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is actually the thing that I forgot 30 seconds ago.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I can't remember exactly what I think if I think we I think we covered this about like you know, a few weeks ago, I felt like the Lord spoke to my heart.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't have a prayer problem, you have an equipping problem.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think I know I've talked to you about it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I can't remember if I've talked to you about it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've talked about it in a recent episode.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, but one of the cool things was is that uh just for just for the sake of just a little slight repetition, um, but if this is your first time you're listening to this, here's where I feel like I've been for the last number of weeks.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's I left, I left our pre-service Sunday morning pre-service prayer meeting.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I've and as I was walking upstairs, uh, the the prayer ministry of the church, prayer life of the church, uh, and the expressions that we've been sort of like, you know, times struggling with, they've been on my mind for for a lot.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some are going better than others and some are struggling.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I've that's been on my mind.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I as I was sort of walking uh, you know, upstairs from the prayer room to the main sanctuary, I I felt like the Lord dropped into my heart.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have a prayer problem, you have an equipping problem.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that not and when that hit hit me, it gripped, it gripped me.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it almost was like it was like it was like a like or like, oh, yeah, there's something there.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, mark it down.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right, mark that down.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and you know, you're one of the people, you know, and some of our other team have been people that I've been talking about this to and sort of re revisiting, you know, uh structures and systems a little bit as it relates to prayer.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so the the cool thing I wanted to share was when I was away at this conference, uh, there was a particular session where this was discussed.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And really from this this avenue of understanding for you as a pastor and leader what your people are capable of, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are they even curious about prayer?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if they aren't curious, how can you make them curious about prayer?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And almost like meeting people where they're at, which is huge for me, it's important that language and everything sort of is is structured in such a way to meet people where they're at.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I it was it was so kind of uh had a moment there where he started talking about how to communicate why we pray and equip people to pray in such a way as to meet people where they're at.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I it was like it was like one of our other, one of our other pastors, Justin Allen, who actually was one guest that we've had on when you couldn't make it one week.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: But he's passionate in prayer.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I turned around and looked at him like somebody else is also having this conversation.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is this happening right now?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've been in the middle of processing this with people and with the Lord and sort of dreaming and in uh you know, we need a like a plan for the future about this right here.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: The the equipping of the church to a deeper uh place of prayer, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that number one, it should be more, more people should be praying.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, it should be praying deeper, right?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like there should be depth as much as it grows wide, it should grow deep.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and really there was and I just found myself going, oh, thank you, Lord.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: This was a massive confirmation to where I feel like you've been you've been speaking this to me already.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And to have the you know, a witness, and so this and this guy was uh you know, a guy that you and I would know a little bit, um, but he he leads a prayer room in New York City, right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he and you know, and then he has you know some a network and some uh some influence and some leadership over that network, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: So so his but he was very much in the line of like, okay, so so it in essence people aren't don't necessarily intuitively know why they should pray.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we as a leader, you know, pastors and leaders present the idea of prayer, it should be done at least in a way that provokes curiosity.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And because right, because some people people don't know the why they pray.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, yeah, so that's a little bit, yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know that we're but this is just I think I think you know it just seems to me that this is the direction, uh, at least as far as it is of me for where you know, where I'm going in part for one of the places that things that are on my plate to see shift and change for us as a house.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you know, we we definitely do, and and thank you, Jesus, that we have uh a solid core of pastors and leaders who burn for prayer.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: I really do.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I'm thankful.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thankful for those.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: And just I trust the Lord's leadership and invite the Lord's leadership in this as we sort of move along and and build, yeah, you know, build build systems and build put and put things in place for people to pray more, not less, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's right.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I really love the more and more means deeper, like praying deeper.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's a great way to coin that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_05: We want people who pray deeper, like yes, like to be praying in a shallow place, and praying more often and spending more time in a shallow place of prayer, yeah, isn't the same as going deep in prayer.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, and so we want deep, we're deep and wide.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's a it's an old the kid song, there's a fountain flowing deep and wide.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I really do believe that like if you know if you've known Jesus for, you know, as as that, you know, as that, as the years count, right, as the years go up, that if it it's a it's a tragedy if your level of prayer remains at a s as at a limited depth.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tragedy, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think the Lord wants, he doesn't only want depth with certain people, right?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's wanting depth with everyone.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's wanting communication, he wants, he's wanting intimacy.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I think that's that's how we want to grow.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: We want we want more people to to come to the place of prayer, even specifically for what we do here, corporate prayer.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of ways that we do pray, so I'm not begrudging that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually super thankful for for all of that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I do feel like there's there are deep wells that the Lord is asking us to dig in this season.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so as we're digging more wells, as we're creating more space for more people to come, there's also this desire to just.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Go deep and really feeling like the just the invitation of the Lord to to go there.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fun.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's awesome.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and jeepers, we I know the intro, we end the intro was like half half the episode.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: But that's okay.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think one of the things that you and I have been talking about is, and again, we've been exploring this idea of what happens when we pray.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we were sort of shooting some.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you shot me a text and I read it, and then we talked about it five minutes before we we started.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: But just this idea we've so just in the messaging that we've uh that we've been exchanging, uh to further the conversation on what happens when we pray, like you brought forth, like you brought forth what kind of old testament King James language is that like you brought you brought forth, uh you brought up um just talking something from I think Matthew 6, right about persp about perspective, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and about so you you want to crack that open about like the what what it invites us to do uh when we pray.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, there's this teaching in Matthew chapter six, and this is very pretty familiar territory.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um if you are around the church for very long, if you've been through you know Sunday school programs or discipleship programs, oftentimes we'll land in Matthew 6, where Jesus is talking about don't worry about the provisions for your life, what you will eat, what you will wear, where you will live.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um your father knows what you need, and he's gonna provide those things.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_05: And then he makes this statement, which people have are are really familiar with, but Jesus says, Um, do not worry, saying, What shall we eat, or what shall we drink, what shall we wear?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_05: For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly father knows that you need them.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_05: But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_05: And what uh what really awakened in my heart was that all through this chapter and six of Matthew, Jesus is talking about two different kingdoms, right?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_05: He's talking about the kingdom of the world, where Jesus says, Yeah, this in the kingdom of the world, people do run after and worry about all these provisions.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And could I just could you also include self in there as well?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: The way the world works is very self-focused.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, right, yeah, right, yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_05: Which is, yeah, that's right.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's it is a self-focus, and it's I'm gonna provide for myself, I'm gonna take care of myself, and you know, we spend our energy chasing after that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus is saying that's the way pagans run after life, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_05: And and pagans, he wasn't spitting that word when he said it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: He's saying he's referring to everybody who doesn't actually worship the the true God, who doesn't understand, um and hasn't turned away from their idols and their gods they worship to worship the true God, the triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_05: And and he says seek his he ties in seeking God's kingdom and his righteousness and all the things will be given to you as well.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_05: And what it was speaking to me about is sometimes we can pray as if having my provisions is what's hand what's hanging in the balance.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_05: Where from God's perspective, I find that when I pray, oftentimes God is reorienting me to remember it's not not about getting the things you need in prayer.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's about you being it's about me reorienting your heart to to seek my kingdom, to be part of my kingdom as opposed to the world's kingdom.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_05: And uh for me, that's there's a subtle difference there where uh I do love to see results from praying in my provision showing up.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_05: That's awesome.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but I I actually what I cherish more about prayer is God's reorient reorienting of my heart, right?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_05: Uh the way I approach the day.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I'm gonna work hard today, but but prayer, soaking my day in prayer, reorients my heart to where actual joy and fulfillment comes from.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I could accomplish the same tasks, forgetting about God and not praying and be very selfish all day.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I could either feel good about the work I got done or very discouraged because I didn't get it done, but everything would be focused on me.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_05: Whereas soaking my day in prayer, it reminds me of wow, I'm actually living in God's kingdom, the kingdom where my father knows all of my needs.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_05: Whether I work hard or not today, or successful or I fail at something, he's providing for me.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_05: And if I could just tie a quick idea to earlier on in the in that same chapter that it really ties in, and this this part really intrigued me.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus says something up in um let me see here.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_05: Uh he says it up around verse 20, I think, or 23, when he's talking about the eye is the lamp of the body.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, here we go.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_05: The the eye is the lamp of the body.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_05: If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_05: But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_05: If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I hadn't really tied this together before, but I began to tie those two ideas together.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_05: That having my my heart reoriented to God's kingdom in my day is a lot like getting my eye, my my eyes healthy.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_05: It's like bringing health to my eyes.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like, what do I envision about my life, about this day?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_05: I start seeing it from the right place.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus says that floods my whole body with light.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: I usually I usually end up relegating that teaching to morality.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_05: Like, am I purity?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_05: Am I looking at the pure things in life or am I looking at immoral things, maybe things that I might be tempted to look at that are wrong desire, so on and so on.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_05: But the spirit began to speak to me and say, No, this is actually about having a healthy outlook on life.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_05: Like, where's my provision come from?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_05: Why do I work?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: Why do I pursue relationships with people?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: Why do I even want to worship God?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's this purity of vision.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like it's so somehow it's connected in there.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_05: Like, do I have the right outlook on life?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_05: If I have a healthy view of it, my whole body's gonna be full of light.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's gonna make all the difference.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and so it's that's I guess all that phrase it together and say a reorienting of my heart from the selfish kingdom of the world to the kingdom of God.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and I would say, you know, amen to that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think it as we pray, because I think by sort of a little bit by function, if we this comes a little bit, you know, there's a certainly a growing journey that that we are we're on in our prayer life.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but the more and more we mature and we were we grow, the less and less we would focus on ourselves.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: It is a it is a thing where, you know, he says, you know, Jesus saying is saying here, like God actually knows what you need before you ask.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like God, it's not like God doesn't know, and then you're telling him what you need.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, I'm sure we're all aware of the times when all we can think about are the things that we need.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: And yet the invitation of the Lord is to not, you know, is that those things matter to him, but those things are actually secondary.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: The secondary, like because the primary thing is where our gaze is fixed.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's where, it's where our perspective is.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is are we, is uh, are the eyes of our heart, is the posture of our heart the the direction of our life, is it pointed at Jesus first?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's the seek ye first the kingdom of God and all in in its righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, so there in in that verse is the promise of provision, all these things will be added unto you, right?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Which is your needs will be met, right?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: But seek first the kingdom of God.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it's like the the breaking of the world's system or the influence of the world or the influence of self.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think you could, again, that's the way the world works.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: The world works where self is king, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: The kingdom of God works where self is second or or further down the further down the line, or but the first, but first and foremost is Jesus and his kingdom.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just think that that's that invitation of like like okay, acknowledging that I don't, it's the surrender, it's the it's the power and the beauty that comes from admitting that I don't even know, right?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think I know because I have a list of needs here.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them may be very painful and very real, but just at the butt, but the notion of the first thing that we do is surrender the fact, you know, surrender our right to be in first place in our life.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's just a that's just a beautiful and powerful element to the what happens when we pray.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because we are we are realizing that, you know, in a in a let's call it um not just when we pray, because again, there's lots of selfish prayers that I'm sure we've had uh that we've prayed.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right, right.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: So praying, uh let's say praying the way that God designed prayer to be, right?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is this it's really this second, like I'm secondary at least, right?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: But at first is Jesus and his kingdom and realizing and acknowledging that everything that I need comes from him, right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also surrendering the timing of when that provision may come, and I'm acknowledging that I'm not God, that someone else is right.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's a whole mechanism.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the shifting, the shifting of the way that our heart or the choosing to move our heart away from the system of the world into the system of the way of the of the kingdom of God.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I think what is what what really causes the fear of the Lord to come in here is Jesus saying, if the light you have is actually darkness, yes, how great is that darkness?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_05: If the eye's healthy, then the body's full of light.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_05: If the eye's unhealthy, then it's filled with darkness.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but he gives this warning, which is a fearsome warning.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you can have something that you think is the light, but it but if it's actually darkness, how great is that darkness?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like you don't even realize you're deceived.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_05: And he's you know, it's just that the awareness that I could be going at life in my own strength, yeah, and with myself as the agenda, thinking I'm actually doing good things and running down a good path.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_05: But Jesus is warning us, unless you're intentionally seeking the kingdom first, yes, which I mean it's beautiful the way scripture ties together, but Jesus taught us to pray, you know, first, you know, worshiping, hallowing God's name, but then inviting his kingdom to come, his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: Give us this day our daily bread.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's it's putting things in the right order.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um and there's this this the idea of the idea of light being infused there.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_05: I like what I did with Erin Fuse.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_05: The light being infused into this whole conversation is it reminded me of Jesus saying, you know, I am the light of the world.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_05: If anyone follows me, they will have the light of life.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_05: And in that C Niv in another translation, I think it's New Living Translation, it's it's translated, he will have the light that leads to life.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, in a life that is soaked in prayer, in a life that practices prayer, yeah, is growing in praying deeper, learning to pray, the benefits of one of the benefits is in some mystical but very and very real way, light that leads to life is being infused into your being.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_05: And I know that sounds very mystical, but I believe it happens so many times coming, getting out of bed, feeling like I don't know if I can do this day, and I have all my human reasons, and coming believing that somewhere in a time of prayer, God's gonna meet me.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I'm waiting on him, and I'm yeah, you know, I'm there.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_05: And he begins to do this very thing that I can only describe as healing my eyes, and the light that leads to life begins to actually awaken me.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_05: And every time I'm amazed, right, but it's so faithful.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it it does like this, you know, the the the implication, what Jesus is saying here in the verse 22 of Matthew 6, you know, uh talking about if your if your eye is bad, how great is the darkness, right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: But if it it's good or it's single, as some translations might say, is like if it's healthy, how great is the light?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I think here and here's what I would say is like there's either with Jesus or without him.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and so that's I think what it almost feels like Jesus, it's like it's like a the either the light is flipped on or it's off, okay.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right in in the decisions that we're making, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if the the choices that I'm making are with Jesus, then the direction of my life is pointed towards him and him being the light, right?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's either with Jesus with light or without Jesus without that complete and like how great is that darkness, right?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: So there's complete and utter darkness.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a it is a bit of a uh to be nerdy, a bit of a binary, like an either or, right?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're either all in or all out in this way, because it would be it would be a little silly to assume that without Jesus we would have any kind of life or fruitfulness or benefit like for the good of our soul, right?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: There would be the choices that we make, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: So just to just to say and and again, uh all for the journey, all for the process, but I just think there's a little bit of a hard truth here that Jesus is saying, like, if your if your eye is healthy and it's fixed on me, how great is that light?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he's not talking about like being perfect here, or you know what I'm saying?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, but there is a when we when our eyes are fixed on him and his kingdom, then the trajectory of our life will be filled with so much light.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: And when we choose opposite of that, there's there's it's impossible for there to be light because he isn't included in that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: So I I guess there's the fruit the then and then even if it looks like you're doing some kingdom stuff, even if it looks like it.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_05: But if you're pursuing that without Jesus, yes, it's dark, it's darkness.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: The fruit of it will be will be darkness, yeah, right.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a little bit of a a hard and fearful truth there.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is because it, but it but to me, like it evokes this thing of like, okay, God help me, right?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, God, like Jesus, like Holy Spirit, help me see Jesus, yeah.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Help me choose Jesus, help me how much more do I, you know, if the stakes perhaps are this high for the trajectory, the trajectory of my life, or even maybe smaller from my perspective, smaller decisions, help me all the more choose Jesus in at any and every decision.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_05: So just yeah, just yeah, so I I'm gonna try something here.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um I feel like the seeking of God's kingdom is the turning the switch on.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_05: Don't seek first the kingdom of God, then the light switch stays off.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: Seeking God's kingdom first flips the switch on.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I just it just makes me wonder that at at believers who lose heart and think they have the light and they're pursuing hard after God, but without prayer, without a depth of prayer, and without an active pursuit of God in prayer, but they're doing all the kingdom stuff, but they bottom out, it doesn't go well, and they give up.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_05: To me, that feels like a fruit of the darkness.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_05: And but those, but the uniqueness of investing time and energy in prayer for the purpose of seeking God.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_05: Like prayer that's focused on I want to seek God's kingdom first.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's why I'm praying.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_05: I don't need more information, I don't need more advice.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_05: I need to pray.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_05: Pray by myself, pray with others, but I pray because I want to seek God's kingdom first.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_05: That that that that makes like that's a unique difference and really a great, like a great wisdom reason for pursuing, like intentionally setting practices and time aside, yeah, not to get more information, not to get stuff explained to you, but actually I want the light flipped on in my life.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_05: I want to learn what it means to seek your kingdom.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm gonna seek it until I learn, and then I'm gonna keep seeking because I want to keep the light on.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_05: Because I do feel like people miss that unique uniqueness of praying for the purpose of seeking God's kingdom.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so let me let me just just take this conversation.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just say, like, okay, so what does it mean, right?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna I'll I'll give you a second to think about this.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does it mean then to pursue the kingdom of God first?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are the kinds of things so we've shifted our we've shifted our perspective, the eyes of our heart, away from ourself and to the kingdom of God, right?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Which is, you know, to keep us on track for why we're having this podcast to talk about what happens when we pray.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: So now that we've said, God, I want your kingdom first, what are the kinds of things that that we would we would be asking God for rather than because I the kingdom of God is a fairly 30,000-foot view name, because there's other and there's specifics, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: So ultimately, I think you know, the kingdom of God is where the will of God is done in our life, right?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Where we see signs of activity or I think sp two two groups of things where in in my life that the the fruit of the spirit is evident, right?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's active and growing, right, in my life, where the gifts of the spirit are active and growing.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just think that the kingdom of God is in these are like again, so the like the activity of those things in your activity, the evidence of the right.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the gifts of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit really, I think is a concise articulation of the activity of the Holy Spirit in and through us, right?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: So the the nine fruit plus the nine plus uh X number, so there's maybe 20 some fruit or gifts of the Spirit.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have First Corinthians 12, but we also have Romans 12, right?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a bunch and we have other things right there.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: So so to me, like the kingdom of God as expressed in and through an individual, let's say, yeah, would be like like that God, that your character through the fruit of the spirit, right?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's and again, like that's and also the gifts of the spirit.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the things that I I am that are things that are within me, like peace, love, you know, gentleness, and then the things that are come out of me, which is the fruit of the spirit also, but like, you know, uh administration, generosity, uh, prophecy, healing, miracles, those kinds of things.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: That those things are on display as well.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: And probably there's probably more ways I could color that in.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: But to me, I think when we pray for the kingdom of God to advance, it isn't just so that are you a Christian check.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: There is more to it than that.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're asking for God, for when we're asking for seeking first the kingdom of God, we want more of who God is.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: And dare I say, like what God does on display in our lives.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we've said this for we've said this since day one.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, being living a holy life isn't about behaving yourself, right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is surrender to the surrender to the Holy Spirit so that you know so that his character and his deeds are on display through our lives.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: And just I don't know if you want to I might have just answered the whole question there, but I don't know what else is hitting you.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_05: It's beautiful because I I believe it's in Matthew chapter four, John the Baptist comes preaching the message, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_05: And then if you continue to read in Matthew, we have the baptism of Jesus.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_05: Then he goes and the Holy Spirit leads him to 40 days in the wilderness, and we know about that.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_05: He's tempted by the devil.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: He he uh doesn't submit.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh he you know he stays true, and you can read all about that experience in the wilderness, but he comes out of the wilderness preaching the same message John was preaching.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_05: Repent Jesus' message coming out of the wilderness was repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um I believe what that looks like is repentance.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_05: There's a prayer I learned from uh an old John Wimber book, I think it was called Power Evangelism back in the 1990s, and I wrote it in uh the inside cover of my Bible back in those days.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I there was a long period of time where I would pray this prayer every day, but it was a prayer that said, Um, Father, I turn from my sin and self-sufficiency.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_05: Right come and fill me with your love, power, and gifts.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_05: Come, Holy Spirit.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and that was just a book or a prayer in simplicity.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_05: That's a good prayer.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_05: John, John taught people as readers, yeah.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_05: If you want to experience the things you were describing, Anthony, like more of the fruit of the Spirit, more of the gifts of the Spirit, it the beginning of the prayer was Father, I return, and you could say repent, isn't it the same thing?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_05: Father, I repent of my sin, and that seems obvious, of course I do, and my self-sufficiency, yeah, which we don't always chalk self-sufficiency up as sin.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_05: Right, but if you can call it sin, you can get free from it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so we're saying identify it.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_05: Self-sufficiency is sin.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_05: So I repent.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_05: So Jesus said, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, John was encouraging Father, I repent of my sin and my self-sufficiency.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so that laying down of my I'm gonna do this myself.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: I'm laying it down on purpose.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, come and fill me with your love, power, and gifts.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's good.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_05: You know, oh, and there's another little part of it.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_05: I open my heart, my innermost being to you.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_05: But the I wanted to emphasize the repent of the self-sufficiency and the asking God to come and fill you with his love, power, and gifts.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_05: There's one little, I'd like to tie one other thing in with that thread.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_05: It is very interesting in the book of Revelation when the message comes to the church in Laodicea that we like to focus on because you're lukewarm, I'm about to spit you out of my mouth.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_05: But Jesus very specifically rebukes them to say, you are rich and acquired and have acquired great wealth.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_05: And you say you don't need a thing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_05: It was the self-sufficiency, it was the self-sufficiency that he was rebuking them for.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_05: You you're you're you provided so well for yourself that you think you don't need anything.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm telling you, you're pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so buy from me the things you need.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's uh it's good.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_05: So it's to me, uh, for me, it's uh it the the seeking first the kingdom involves repentance, it's owning that my self-sufficiency is sin, yeah, and it's repenting of it, leave it at the cross, the wounds of Jesus.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_05: I like to say lately, I've been saying to people, I lay it down, I take my hands away, and I step back.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's what I like to say.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm laying it down, I'm taking a step back, and I'm saying, fill me with what you have, Holy Spirit.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_05: Instead, man, that practice right there.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, on even if it wasn't every day, even if it was a couple times a week, yeah, you would begin to experience that you would nobody would have to explain to anybody, yeah, well, that's what seeking the kingdom first looks like.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because God's gonna show up on a prayer like that.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, He is going to show up.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: And too, like I th I feel like I feel like we're we're carving out something to pray into here in a couple minutes.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I know I I know there's probably some people, if you've made it this far, probably like yelling in their cart.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so there's a couple, there's a couple things that I just want to read.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like Romans 14 17 says this, for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what is it?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 1 Corinthians uh 4 20 is for the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk, but it's a matter of power.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: So according to the word of God, I think it's like I think it's again, uh in in theme, Paul in both places are talking about the kingdom of God is not a matter of what we can taste, touch, and feel, but it's actually it is actually um it's a power.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right, it's it's in in in through and by the Holy Spirit, right?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, and again, obviously the kingdom God is righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, and it's a matter of power, right?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you know, having a form of godliness, but denying the power that makes us holy.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like there is a there is a what we are talking about as it relates to the kingdom of God is in principle the power of the Holy Spirit at work in us and through us, right?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, and so that's that's the advancement of so when we say God, let your kingdom advance, what we are saying because because people because people, right?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like fill me with like what fill me with your uh your gift, power, love, power, and gifts.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so ultimately, like I think that the kingdom of God as it advances in people you know, throughout you know, the earth, throughout our region, throughout our cities and our towns, our churches, as the kingdom of God advances, that's how we start to see the shift in society.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we start to sh see, you know, things, things change from uh from, you know, uh, you know, uh, I don't necessarily want to crack this open, but like in in government, uh, in in our in our city councils and in our, you know, in in the various places in our society, as the king, it isn't that we want um, it isn't that we just want God honoring policy in place.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: We want the the policy makers themselves to be ushered into the kingdom of God.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so just a I that's a weird, uh weird left turn, but nonetheless, that's true.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just to help color in like what it is we talk about when we talk about the advancement of the kingdom of God.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like the kingdom of God advances in hearts of men and women.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, like it's a real governing power, influence in the world that actually uh when it's when it's in charge, yeah, things go the way they're supposed to go.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: Creation operates the way it's supposed to be.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: As a fruit of what's happening in the heart in the heart.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's just a that's a actually, I don't know if I've ever heard anybody articulate that in the last number of years, but I think, you know, again, I think that's a good articulation of what we're what we mean when we actually pray into uh God's kingdom.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we seek your kingdom first, God.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: We want your kingdom advanced.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's I think that's a decent place to I don't know if it's my turn to pray, but maybe what are you feeling?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_05: I think I could go either way.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, want me to go for it?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Want me to go for it?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go for it.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_05: You know what?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'd love to pray, Anthony, that yeah, that God would help us to recognize that repentance is involved if we're gonna seek his kingdom.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like we can't keep we can't keep hanging on to our kingdom right and seek his at the same time.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_05: We can't seek his first while we're still hanging on to our kingdom.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_05: So I'd love to pray for the grace just to help with that.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_05: Please do.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_05: So God, thank you so much.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_05: We have scripture.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you that we can read it in a language that we understand.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Holy Spirit, that you awaken the word that you speak to us.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, that you bring to us what we need to hear.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_05: God, I feel like you've been speaking as we've been talking together here.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah, you've been present.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_05: And Lord, I pray for Anthony and I, and I pray for everyone listening.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Lord, would you release a grace upon us as your children to understand what it means to seek your kingdom first above all?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_05: And God, teach us, remind us that repentance is involved, that we can't seek our own kingdom and our own power, relying on our own words and our own zeal, all that stuff.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_05: We can't seek that kingdom first and yours first at the same time.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_05: Teach us to repent, Lord.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_05: Teach us to repent, to lay down, to say, in whatever words anybody needs to pray.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_05: God, I open my heart, my own innermost being to you.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_05: I turn from my sin and my self-sufficiency.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_05: And I ask you to come with your love, power, and gifts.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_05: Come, Holy Spirit.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_05: Whatever language somebody needs to use, Lord, would you teach us all, lead us all in repentance?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_05: And we do ask, God, fill us with your spirit and God, would you just uh cause the fruit of your of your kingdom to just explode all around us?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_05: In Jesus' name.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_05: Well, that's a wrap on this episode.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time.