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Mouthwashing · Awoken Game Club Podcast

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to the awoken game club yo yo uh patrick hello how uh how's
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your breath today oh
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i'm i could use a little bit of mouthwash if you know what i
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mean okay well it
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SPEAKER_02: sounds like we've got just what the doctor ordered um
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Yeah,
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this month's game was Mouthwashing,
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the first horror game of the Awoken Game Club.
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If you're joining us for the first time,
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Awoken Game Club is a monthly video game book club.
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SPEAKER_02: We play indie games, debate, debrief, celebrate at the end of the month.
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Follow us on Substack to get notifications,
0:40
see Patrick's art,
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and chat with us.
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SPEAKER_02: Our game next month is Mugenics,
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if you want to go ahead and play that and join us for next
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month's edition.
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SPEAKER_02: A little bit of housekeeping.
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SPEAKER_02: Each and every Awoken Game Club episode is packed full of spoilers.
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So treat these like any monthly book club where all the
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attendees have had their
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SPEAKER_02: time with the book or game.
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SPEAKER_02: And if you're worried about spoilers, this episode is evergreen.
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SPEAKER_02: So come back and listen after you've played.
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SPEAKER_02: And luckily, mouthwashing doesn't take too long to play.
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So I encourage you to go check it out before listening if
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that's something you're interested in.
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SPEAKER_02: So with that out of the way, Patrick, what did you think of mouthwashing?
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SPEAKER_00: Well, in my note here, I just have good old, well-done science fiction.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm a big fan of movies like in the Alien franchise and those kind of...
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe even Sunshine,
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SPEAKER_00: Sunspot.
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I think that's like a mid-2000s...
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Both of those were cited in the Wikipedia as inspirations.
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SPEAKER_02: Alien and Sunshine.
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SPEAKER_00: Holy smokes.
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SPEAKER_00: I did not know that.
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SPEAKER_00: You nailed that.
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SPEAKER_00: But if we're talking...
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you know aberration or like mind loss or just like the
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tragedies of deep travel
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space maybe a little bit of black mirror this is where we're at
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um and i did love
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the medium that kind of incurred all this like the actual
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mouthwash itself when you
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actually think about the game there's not a ton that has to do
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with the mouthwash
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SPEAKER_00: product but it is such a
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SPEAKER_00: a symbol of the degradation of this poor crew and its use is phenomenal.
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SPEAKER_00: So I really did enjoy this game.
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SPEAKER_00: What about you?
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SPEAKER_02: I've never heard of Sunshine.
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SPEAKER_02: I've got to check that out.
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SPEAKER_02: That is a deep pull.
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It is kind of important that you said it was a great science
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fiction game because
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SPEAKER_02: it is not the capital H horror that I was expecting,
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SPEAKER_02: which I'm very okay with as not a big horror game.
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gamer i i'm one of my like my first notes was like after that
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intro like the first
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minute or two of the game i'm like whoa what did we get
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ourselves into because that
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was maybe like the scariest part of the whole game i said the
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same thing i was like
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in my room i finished the first sequence and i was like
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dropping an f-bomb i was
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SPEAKER_00: like
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SPEAKER_00: Screw this out loud.
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SPEAKER_00: There's no one in the room, but I just had to exhale.
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SPEAKER_00: I was just like, screw this.
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SPEAKER_00: This is ridiculous.
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SPEAKER_00: I can't believe we're doing this.
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SPEAKER_00: There was literally like a 5% feeling in me where I was like,
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SPEAKER_00: maybe I don't want to play this game.
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SPEAKER_00: And just like, that's what I'll talk about.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
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SPEAKER_02: I had that too,
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SPEAKER_02: where I was like,
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SPEAKER_02: if this is the level of scared that I'm going to feel this whole game,
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SPEAKER_02: I'm in trouble.
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Because,
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I mean,
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let's talk a little bit about our history with horror games.
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SPEAKER_02: I like horror games,
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but we used to play them in college and we lived together as
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like a social
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SPEAKER_02: experience,
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SPEAKER_02: which is...
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SPEAKER_02: I find very enjoyable,
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SPEAKER_02: but very different than playing by yourself at night with no one to like,
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SPEAKER_02: haha,
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SPEAKER_02: that was scary next to you.
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SPEAKER_00: I so I I might contrast with you or not disagree,
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SPEAKER_00: but I found because when we were in college together,
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SPEAKER_00: the very glorious PT came out and we played that together,
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SPEAKER_00: which was a very special time.
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SPEAKER_00: I could not handle watching you play that game.
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SPEAKER_00: I was yelling, I was thrashing about.
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SPEAKER_00: I do think when I play horror games or watch horror movies on my own,
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SPEAKER_00: I think I am weirdly less scared than when I'm with other people.
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SPEAKER_02: You almost have to close a part of yourself off to survive.
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SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's how you think about it,
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SPEAKER_02: but I do think I kind of got a little bit more like,
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SPEAKER_02: it's just a game,
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SPEAKER_02: let me lock in,
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SPEAKER_02: versus letting myself...
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be really truly scared um when i'm with peers which maybe i can
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i can basically as
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a survival instinct i might do that i just find myself yelling
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a lot more which i
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think is a loop of me feeling scared where i'm in like haunted
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horror houses i'm
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SPEAKER_00: always touching someone i'm always it's almost like
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SPEAKER_00: I'm letting myself be scared.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile,
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SPEAKER_00: when I am by myself,
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SPEAKER_00: like you said,
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whether it's being closing something off or isolating the one
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survival instinct,
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SPEAKER_00: my eyes are like locked in.
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SPEAKER_00: I am like, okay, this is a game or I just need to get to the other place.
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SPEAKER_00: And with other horror games I've played, like strictly horror, I,
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SPEAKER_00: My bench isn't very deep.
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I did finish and beat Soma,
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which is another great kind of game like this.
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SPEAKER_00: And I do remember in Soma,
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there were a lot of times where you could just crawl in a
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corner and look at the
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SPEAKER_00: ground.
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SPEAKER_00: And when I would do that as I played the game,
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SPEAKER_00: I was also almost like looking at the ground,
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SPEAKER_00: which I don't think I would do in a social setting.
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SPEAKER_00: I would be like watching the screen or behind a pillow,
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SPEAKER_00: which fully acknowledges that I'm scared.
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SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, at
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SPEAKER_00: By myself, I'm just basically alt-tabbing.
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SPEAKER_02: Right.
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SPEAKER_02: Does this apply to horror movies as well?
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SPEAKER_02: Can you watch horror movies by yourself?
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SPEAKER_02: Or do you prefer to watch them with someone else?
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SPEAKER_00: I do both regularly.
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SPEAKER_00: And it is a different experience when I'm watching with other people.
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SPEAKER_00: And I am yelling the whole time.
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SPEAKER_00: But when I'm by myself,
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I've got maybe one pillow in front of me and just very ready to
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occlude 90% of the
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SPEAKER_00: screen as needed.
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SPEAKER_00: But dead silent.
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um this game was one of your choices um which i picked how'd
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you hear about
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mouthwashing i actually heard about it when it got released and
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some of my favorite
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art twitter blue sky whatever you want to call it basically my
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art sphere social
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SPEAKER_00: media was doing fan art and i wish i could go back and find it
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SPEAKER_00: There's a lot out there.
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SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of it centered around Anya,
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SPEAKER_00: one of the characters,
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SPEAKER_00: especially her likeness to Shelley Duvall from The Shining.
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And I think people were doing a lot of memes at the time
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because she arguably has
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SPEAKER_00: one of the more tragic story arcs.
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SPEAKER_02: So I think that's... That's a fun question.
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SPEAKER_02: Who had the most tragic story arc?
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SPEAKER_02: But yes, I agree.
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SPEAKER_02: She maybe is the most tragic story arc.
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SPEAKER_00: This was in my pool, but why did you choose it?
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yeah i mean i think uh i love an art game um i feel like i was
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ready for kind of a
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shorter more cinematic experience uh it was very ravely
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reviewed by uh min max a
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gaming podcast i like so i always like i played this game and
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then i went back and
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i listened to their thoughts again having played it which i had
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a lot of fun doing
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SPEAKER_02: um
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And you touched on that you discovered the game through some
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art community that you follow.
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SPEAKER_02: The art direction in this game did blow me away.
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SPEAKER_02: Because I think it's highlighted that it uses a low-poly,
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SPEAKER_02: retro style that was inspired by maybe the original PlayStation,
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SPEAKER_02: which I got from the trailer and I got from the images,
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SPEAKER_02: but I don't think I was ready for...
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SPEAKER_02: what I felt like was a beautiful,
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SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's the right word,
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but just between the surreal cutscene or set pieces and the way
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in which the art
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SPEAKER_02: style contributed to the moodiness and scariness of it,
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SPEAKER_02: and then the music,
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I really thought this game was like an artistic achievement
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beyond just a really
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SPEAKER_02: compelling narrative and a horror game.
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SPEAKER_00: No,
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SPEAKER_00: I do fully agree because with that low poly,
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SPEAKER_00: there was just a lot of elements of highly produced sound mixing,
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SPEAKER_00: highly produced,
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SPEAKER_00: almost like aside sound effects.
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visuals like yes it was poly but the scene where all the cards
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are flashing across
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your face or as you're being tricked not tricked but like the
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puzzles of walking in
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one direction I just felt all of that was very clean and like
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juxtaposed with the
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poly visuals it was very cool and yeah I do think it's really
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funny you bring it up
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like PlayStation 1 and I guess I didn't really think of it like
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that because so
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SPEAKER_00: many this day and age
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SPEAKER_00: Games are like,
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I'm thinking like Lethal Company was kind of like PlayStation 1
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and it almost has
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SPEAKER_00: that same grain,
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SPEAKER_00: that intentional grain filter,
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which I don't know if that's intentionally done now versus
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obviously that was just
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a product of the technology at the time in 1995 or whenever the
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PlayStation 1 came
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SPEAKER_00: out.
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SPEAKER_02: I also feel like a little bit different than lethal company,
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SPEAKER_02: the low poly retro style complimented how small the game was like the,
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SPEAKER_02: the ship,
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SPEAKER_02: um,
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SPEAKER_02: the ship is the,
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SPEAKER_02: the tulper,
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SPEAKER_02: uh,
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is very small um you can you can traverse every room in the
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game in like a minute
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um and so like the low poly the kind of cozy small gameplay um
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arena all like made
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SPEAKER_02: it feel very focused and it was very focused on the narrative like
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I guess you could call it kind of a walking simulator where you
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were just getting
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SPEAKER_02: propelled through this narrative.
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SPEAKER_02: And speaking of like the art direction being amazing,
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SPEAKER_02: the narrative is also amazing,
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SPEAKER_02: which is what makes this game.
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SPEAKER_02: It is the game.
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SPEAKER_02: The game is the nonlinear narrative.
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And I thought that the art contributed to that because you were
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just focused on the
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SPEAKER_02: narrative the whole time.
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SPEAKER_02: There was no like,
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SPEAKER_02: collectibles or backdrops to get distracted by.
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SPEAKER_02: You're just living in this small, claustrophobic narrative.
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SPEAKER_00: I fully agree.
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SPEAKER_00: I think even whether it be between the...
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The things you were tasked,
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I guess,
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to do,
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it felt very urgent at the time.
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SPEAKER_00: There were like even an open world game.
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Yeah,
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I might go mess around over here for a side quest,
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but I did feel the urgency.
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And with these small narrative driven games,
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I do feel like it is best to role play.
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SPEAKER_00: Basically, if they're like,
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SPEAKER_00: Hey, Anya needs this now or like you need to go help Daisuke.
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SPEAKER_00: A part of me is like,
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SPEAKER_00: well,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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maybe I want to go look in the other rooms for like some ID
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cards or something,
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SPEAKER_00: but like,
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SPEAKER_00: no.
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SPEAKER_00: the game really does feel like I need to go help them at this moment.
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SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that game punished you if you didn't,
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but I just really welcome opportunities in narrative-driven
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games where I can just
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fully immerse as opposed to be distracted by the dangling of
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Platinum or the
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SPEAKER_00: dangling of...
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you know a true final ending i was just like no just just play
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the game just let
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the mouth just drink the mouthwash just get in there just drink
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the mouthwash i
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really did like the narrative i felt it felt compelling to do
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so in a very natural
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way that conflicted with generally how i play games yeah i it's
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it's funny you
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SPEAKER_02: mentioned the id cards i forgot about that because i was looking at the
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achievements after i beat it and i i only got like two of the
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name the id cards so
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SPEAKER_02: yeah they they somehow fit
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a lot of hidden things in a space that I felt like was so
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tightly contained.
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SPEAKER_02: Like every time you were trying to go do some,
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SPEAKER_02: one of those tasks,
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SPEAKER_02: almost every door was closed to you for,
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SPEAKER_02: for one reason or another.
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SPEAKER_02: Um,
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SPEAKER_02: I think the subversion,
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SPEAKER_02: just getting straight to the meat of it,
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and this is something that I kind of inferred from hearing
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other people talk about
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SPEAKER_02: it,
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SPEAKER_02: is for me at least,
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SPEAKER_02: you think it's a space mystery of how did the ship crash and...
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SPEAKER_02: um how are you gonna survive and then i don't know if it's two-thirds or
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three-fourths of the way through the game but you realize the
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story is not about
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that it's about a a sexual assault and uh i was not ready for
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that i was like at
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the way because like i was like oh they they're commenting on
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capitalism and like
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SPEAKER_02: wage labor and um
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uh the who whodunit of how the ship crashed and how you're
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gonna get out and i know
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it's a horror game but i i kind of let myself i mean all those
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things can be in a
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horror game but i was not expecting to be playing as a
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psychopath basically yes yes
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the game is jimmy is a piece of shit and ruins just about
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everyone's time on this
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ship and the whole journey is this idea of as it was very
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subliminally or even
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SPEAKER_00: whatever the opposite,
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SPEAKER_00: bluntly taking responsibility,
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SPEAKER_00: which is the message that kept showing up.
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And Jimmy just keep trying to phrase all of his poor decisions
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and his poor actions
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SPEAKER_00: of trust me,
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SPEAKER_00: trust me,
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SPEAKER_00: bro,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to fix it.
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SPEAKER_00: Trust me.
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SPEAKER_00: And one by one,
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SPEAKER_00: Everyone pays the price.
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe multiple times.
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SPEAKER_02: He's such a weasel.
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SPEAKER_02: So you play as... Before the crash, you play as Curly, the captain.
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SPEAKER_02: And then after the crash, you play as Jimmy.
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SPEAKER_02: And...
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I guess whatever the I don't know how early on that you see
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Curly post crash when
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SPEAKER_02: he's like the kind of mascot of the game.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's in bad shape.
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SPEAKER_02: And speaking of in bad shape,
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the first time that you have to open his mouth to give him the
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painkillers and the
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SPEAKER_02: sound.
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SPEAKER_02: Oh, my gosh.
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SPEAKER_02: That is some ASMR right there.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is maybe, like, again, art direction.
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SPEAKER_02: There's so many little, like,
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crazy moments beautiful moments horrifying moments that make
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this more than just a
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good story like the the repetition of having to shove
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painkillers down curly's
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SPEAKER_00: throat is is insane um speaking of repetition and you were looking at the
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achievements earlier did you see the achievement called sock
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puppet uh no or at
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SPEAKER_00: least i don't remember
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It's one of the hidden achievements,
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and I quickly looked at them for fun.
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Sock Puppet is an achievement you get if you rapidly open and
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close Curly's mouth.
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SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is so sick.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine if you accidentally or naturally got that.
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SPEAKER_00: Just you being a monster.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I guess...
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SPEAKER_02: Oh, you got a bunch of employee cards.
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SPEAKER_02: I got all of them except Jimmy's.
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SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think like
16:19
SPEAKER_02: What was also kind of interesting,
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SPEAKER_02: and this game has a lot of subtlety,
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SPEAKER_02: but one of the game club questions that I had was,
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SPEAKER_02: by the end,
16:29
SPEAKER_02: is Curly even a sympathetic character?
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SPEAKER_02: Wait, you mean Jimmy?
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SPEAKER_02: No, I mean Curly.
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SPEAKER_02: Jimmy's beyond redemption,
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SPEAKER_02: but it did seem like...
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SPEAKER_02: I guess there's that one scene where he just tells...
16:46
jimmy that he'll figure it out after jimmy confesses uh or
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after he realized
16:51
basically it seems like he kind of sweeps jimmy's assault under
16:56
the rug a little
16:57
bit um and uh i feel like he was playing this like straight man
17:03
like noble captain
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SPEAKER_02: and then when you see that you're like again like that is a very um
17:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, the actions that Curly take lead to... Is it Sonya?
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Sonya?
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Anya.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: Anya.
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SPEAKER_02: Anya's, like...
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suicide at the end like so I feel like it was just again part
17:30
of the sexual assault
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story but like basically the people the you tell someone and
17:35
then the people in
17:36
power don't really do anything about it yeah I thought that was
17:40
pretty classic and
17:41
pretty like made it just hard to play as not hard but weird to
17:47
play as all of these
17:48
characters because you have no you don't have any agency when
17:51
you're playing it
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Agreed, agreed.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: I do think the game,
17:57
SPEAKER_00: whatever the opposite of agency is,
18:00
SPEAKER_00: whether...
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SPEAKER_00: There's something just very cryptic about pressing tab,
18:04
SPEAKER_00: knowing what's in your inventory,
18:06
SPEAKER_00: and using the items,
18:08
SPEAKER_00: right?
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: It just felt like,
18:11
SPEAKER_00: oh,
18:11
SPEAKER_00: God,
18:11
SPEAKER_00: don't make me pull out...
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay,
18:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm pulling out the axe,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm pulling out the gun,
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm sweeping my mouse left and right,
18:18
SPEAKER_00: and I'm just like,
18:19
SPEAKER_00: this is...
18:21
I know I'm like supposed to be feeling all of this and that's
18:24
just what I kind of
18:25
SPEAKER_00: have to fully commit to.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
18:29
SPEAKER_00: I do think I put that in one of the columns of,
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cause I had two columns of what were the jump scares and what
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were the horrors that
18:36
SPEAKER_00: you underwent and you had called out one of them already feeding curly.
18:41
I'll talk about cutting the cake and then cutting curly,
18:45
which is like the same thing.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: The ultrasound scene.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And you go through these,
18:52
and I think the game is trying to elicit emotions of you being
18:57
that psychopath,
18:57
SPEAKER_00: you being Curly during moments of his.
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SPEAKER_00: Was it clear that Curly was also going through?
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Because before the twist happens,
19:10
SPEAKER_00: it felt like when we were in Curly's shoes,
19:12
SPEAKER_00: we also went through a few psychological trips to Wonderland.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe did I miss that?
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm not sure.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: I think one of the notes I have,
19:24
SPEAKER_02: because I don't think I really fully understood the perspective switch.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: I think that we can talk a little bit about the non-linear narrative,
19:35
SPEAKER_02: but I don't think while I was playing,
19:37
it was 100% clear to me that I was playing as Crowley's
19:40
perspective before the
19:41
SPEAKER_02: crash and Jimmy's after.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: I didn't really fully get on board with
19:49
the curly versus jimmy because you're kind of acting as the
19:52
captain the whole time
19:53
so i was just like i kind of wasn't really thinking about curly
19:56
as even a character
19:58
but i mean one of the surreal moments i have that really got me
20:01
was i just wrote
20:02
down when you're running to the cockpit and you fall into the
20:05
blood planet which i
20:07
don't remember if i was playing as curly or jimmy for that but
20:12
if it was curly then
20:14
SPEAKER_02: that is very much a uh
20:20
SPEAKER_02: you're descending into a little bit of madness, not just as Jimmy.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think I did kind of
20:27
SPEAKER_02: associate the madness and the horror,
20:30
SPEAKER_02: like,
20:30
SPEAKER_02: whatever type of horror it is,
20:32
SPEAKER_02: with the ship and the Pony Express and the game,
20:36
SPEAKER_02: and less as,
20:37
SPEAKER_02: like,
20:38
SPEAKER_02: oh,
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Jimmy is personally a psychotic,
20:43
SPEAKER_02: or,
20:43
SPEAKER_02: like,
20:43
SPEAKER_02: losing his mind.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: More like, this world is actually like this, yeah.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought... I would believe that until the end where it became...
20:57
just like a straight horror game as the way I interpreted that
21:02
onslaught of guilt
21:04
SPEAKER_00: or the onslaught of jump scares and sequences is Jimmy's mounting guilt.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:11
We're manifesting as hallucinations where it eventually all
21:16
with just like how
21:17
SPEAKER_00: awful the visual you're supposed to feel.
21:21
And that's how Jimmy feels where ultimately that's where he
21:24
makes his decision to make
21:27
SPEAKER_00: save Curly instead of himself.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Because up until then,
21:33
SPEAKER_00: even as you're carving into Curly,
21:34
SPEAKER_00: and is it insinuated that he eats Curly's leg?
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Is that what...
21:38
SPEAKER_02: I think they called it a surreal hallucination in the Wikipedia,
21:45
SPEAKER_02: but that is what's insinuated,
21:46
SPEAKER_02: yeah.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And I just feel as though that is...
21:52
SPEAKER_00: For all the awful things you did,
21:54
SPEAKER_00: and you trying to escape your...
21:57
SPEAKER_00: ability to take any responsibility for it,
22:00
SPEAKER_00: the guilt eventually just,
22:03
SPEAKER_00: which is why you're like crying in front of the burning Curly,
22:07
SPEAKER_00: where you eventually like take that long trip down that corridor,
22:11
SPEAKER_00: which is not real,
22:12
SPEAKER_00: but it is real to let Curly go.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
22:16
SPEAKER_02: my read is that,
22:18
SPEAKER_02: my read on it,
22:19
SPEAKER_02: which is,
22:20
SPEAKER_02: it's fun that we have,
22:21
SPEAKER_02: we're trying to like dissect it because the game is not,
22:24
SPEAKER_02: that's what's kind of nice is that it's,
22:26
SPEAKER_02: they don't,
22:27
really tell you what's real and what's not and they don't
22:30
really tell you what the
22:32
characters are thinking just what they're experiencing or
22:35
seeing or doing or saying
22:36
um you're not really like reading inner dialogue um i don't
22:41
think curly was ever
22:43
guilty uh for any of the things he did um and i i saw like kind
22:49
of his suicide at
22:50
SPEAKER_02: the end or his
22:52
putting curly in the,
22:54
the chamber is more like a selfish act of not wanting to face
22:59
the music.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Like it,
23:03
I thought as one more thing that he did that was trying to
23:07
escape responsibility
23:09
SPEAKER_02: and less of like,
23:11
SPEAKER_02: he's letting curly live because he feels bad for curly.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I'll point out some examples.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: My counter,
23:20
SPEAKER_00: not necessarily counter,
23:21
but there was an instance where either Curly was talking to
23:26
Jimmy where he was
23:29
SPEAKER_00: telling Jimmy,
23:30
SPEAKER_00: look what you can do,
23:31
SPEAKER_00: man.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: I know it's going to live between us, but you can escape here.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Tell the story you want to say.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: How I went crazy.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Basically, you could get out of this scot-free.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: You can...
23:44
do all that and he ultimately chose not to and then the other
23:51
thing which i will
23:52
say i have this as a note during jimmy's final carry of curly
23:57
to the pod i hit tab
24:00
and i tried to use the gun which was in your inventory now he
24:04
uses it later right
24:05
SPEAKER_00: after he puts curly in the thing the game says
24:10
not yet and that's where i was like oh and that's what i knew
24:13
immediately on that
24:15
walk before he put curly i was like oh he's gonna put curly in
24:17
the escape pod and
24:19
like you're in jimmy's head and you're like i'm about to use
24:22
this and i do believe
24:23
that i can see from your point where it is him still escaping
24:26
his responsibility i
24:28
did just think maybe when i was playing and i was like i don't
24:32
really know what's
24:32
going on when i hit tab tried to use the gun and it just says
24:36
not yet i was just
24:37
SPEAKER_00: like
24:39
SPEAKER_00: The feelings I felt were like, oh, he's totally about to kill himself.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: It's funny.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: I think I had that moment, but much, much earlier.
24:46
I think it was not yet for a very long time because I
24:49
definitely tried to use the
24:50
SPEAKER_02: gun at a different moment.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's like it might just be...
24:57
SPEAKER_02: like,
24:59
SPEAKER_02: um,
25:01
SPEAKER_02: uh,
25:01
an ending that for me is a little incongruous with the main
25:07
story arc because just
25:08
SPEAKER_02: everything that Jimmy did to Swansea to,
25:12
SPEAKER_02: uh,
25:13
SPEAKER_02: um,
25:15
to curly to anya to daisuke like he was truly like sociopathic
25:24
and his like kind of
25:25
just way he's yeah just murdered he first he tried to kill
25:29
everybody by crashing
25:30
the ship uh and then he um murders uh swan say um and then he
25:39
like i guess he kind
25:40
SPEAKER_02: of tried to save daisuke uh
25:43
SPEAKER_00: No,
25:43
SPEAKER_00: I read that it was all selfish,
25:47
SPEAKER_00: because even as he was encouraging Daisuke to go up the vent...
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, he was like, Swansea will be so proud of you if you did that.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's what, that's why Daisuke went up the dangerous van.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, Jimmy, you, you piece of shit.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Well,
26:03
I also met the scene where he's like putting pouring mouthwash
26:07
on him to try and
26:08
SPEAKER_02: like heal or like fix his wounds.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: And Swansea has to kind of, um,
26:16
put him out of his his misery yeah like it just like uh the
26:21
whole story is uh
26:23
jimmy's is genuinely beyond the pale um so yeah i think i don't
26:29
know that because
26:32
you're right they're they're they're telling you to take
26:34
responsibility and the the
26:36
SPEAKER_02: pony mascot is telling you to take accountability um
26:44
And I guess I'm reading the plot that he apologizes to everyone
26:47
for everything he's
26:48
SPEAKER_02: done and then kills himself with a revolver.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: I still think he's a sociopath.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if sociopaths feel guilt or if he just felt trapped.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: I think I agree.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: And honestly,
27:04
the other note I have here is I do think the devs agree because
27:09
one of the hidden
27:10
SPEAKER_00: achievements is called,
27:11
SPEAKER_00: parentheses,
27:12
SPEAKER_00: the good ending.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And to unlock this one is during the chase sequence of the cemetery,
27:18
SPEAKER_00: you get axed by Swansea 10 times.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: And they call that the good ending.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think even the devs are a little in on Jimmy sucks.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: Just let him get over and over cut down.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: That was really scary in the graveyard.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: That was really scary.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: That was the top one for the jump scare.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: That was awful.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: That was really awful.
27:42
When Anya tells you,
27:44
playing as Curly,
27:44
that she's pregnant,
27:46
was it obvious to you...
27:49
like that it was Jimmy like I feel like I was even like it was
27:52
it was it me curly
27:54
or was it Swansea or was it like I feel like at that point
27:58
Jimmy was like this
28:00
SPEAKER_02: sweet little sidekick before that moment
28:03
there I agree there was a moment earlier in the game where
28:07
you're directed to go
28:09
somewhere and I went to the cockpit instead and I stumbled on
28:13
Anya and Swansea and
28:16
Swansea says something similar he's like okay I'll talk to him
28:20
I'll figure it out
28:22
or we'll figure it out together and like obviously Anya looks
28:24
very upset and I do
28:27
SPEAKER_00: think
28:28
from the art that i saw um it was clearly i mean just in pop
28:35
culture's current
28:36
depiction of shelly duvall like we they're clearly like trying
28:39
to make her more of
28:40
an empowered woman because of the abuse she suffered and and so
28:45
i just felt like i
28:46
SPEAKER_00: knew like poor anya
28:51
someone did something terrible to her the second i saw her and
28:55
i was already
28:56
suspicious of everyone on the ship i was just like this poor
28:58
girl is like doing her
29:00
best and i probably should have suspected it when jimmy was
29:04
being a piece of
29:06
garbage to her very early on yeah about um trying to feed curly
29:11
the medicine um
29:13
SPEAKER_02: gosh even in that moment i i think i was like
29:19
I was like,
29:20
well,
29:21
yeah,
29:22
like,
29:22
she does seem too weak to give him the medicines.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: I don't think, yeah, like, I was, like, not aware.
29:28
I think that's why it was very powerful for me when I was like,
29:32
oh,
29:32
I'm a monster.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, my God.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't really realize.
29:38
I thought these were just going to be a bunch of grumpy people
29:41
trapped in an
29:42
SPEAKER_02: unfortunate situation together.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Not that, like...
29:45
I really didn't think that one of the ship members caused the
29:48
accident and like why
29:50
SPEAKER_02: they caused the accident.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: It all just unraveled like very, very quickly for me.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: I've never, I don't know who Shelley Duvall is.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: I have to read about, read about her.
30:00
Basically she's the lead actress in The Shining and she just
30:04
went through a lot of
30:05
SPEAKER_00: abuse from that director.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: I got to read, read some more.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Um,
30:15
SPEAKER_02: I thought that the,
30:17
SPEAKER_02: another holy F moment for me was when you're,
30:21
SPEAKER_02: you're like in some sequence that has the gravestone with the flower.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you like use the code scanner on it and the wall disappears.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: That was really powerful.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: They do like such good, like special effects in this game.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: The special effects in this game are amazing.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: Um,
30:38
yes um agreed i thought that running from the blind beast was
30:43
the low point in the
30:45
game uh yeah i thought that that was that little sequence that
30:49
little puzzle was
30:49
like i was like really tedious like i immediately realized like
30:55
the puzzle and you
30:56
just stop when you it gets close did you did you actually ever
31:00
see the the horse
31:01
SPEAKER_00: face i did
31:03
SPEAKER_00: I saw it for the first time and I thought that was cool.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: And then when I figured out the puzzle,
31:07
SPEAKER_00: I was like,
31:08
SPEAKER_00: this is very tedious how long this is taking.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it took a little too long.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
31:16
i'm trying to think what other notes i have uh yeah just like a
31:23
great horror game
31:24
for not horror fans in my opinion because um i i'm like the
31:29
scary litmus like level
31:31
of like zero to ten i would put this game at like a three uh
31:35
how about you
31:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm more skittish, and I build it on myself.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: There were just a lot of instances where,
31:45
SPEAKER_00: as I'm walking through the quarters,
31:46
SPEAKER_00: even during normal sequences,
31:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm closing the door behind me,
31:49
SPEAKER_00: and I'm always looking back.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'll close the door,
31:53
SPEAKER_00: and then open it again,
31:54
SPEAKER_00: and then close it,
31:55
SPEAKER_00: just to be like,
31:56
SPEAKER_00: it's nothing.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to almost trigger the condition statements.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, let me make sure this isn't a scary thing.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And nothing eventually...
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Nothing ever really triggered anything, so it was all paranoia.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: But I would say a five.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: I'd say a five.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: That's solid.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: How did you handle the first computer crash that was the transition?
32:24
the computer crash so when when the time when you jump in the
32:27
timeline and the the
32:30
screen glitches out in a way that like kind of like a computer
32:35
like uh like
32:36
stuttering and then the whole screen blends and then you're
32:39
like the first couple
32:40
times um that happened i was like shit the game or the game
32:44
crash like uh i thought
32:46
SPEAKER_02: that was well done as well
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think I ever got the sense.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: There were just moments where I squinted my eyes.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is part of the game, right?
32:57
SPEAKER_00: This is not.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: One other thing.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: When you first booted up the game and started it,
33:05
SPEAKER_02: did you have the option to hit continue instead of new game?
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Bro, I hit continue as a meme.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: I was just like, let me just try this.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: This is the kind of game where it might do something cool.
33:18
that's cool that we both did that i did too that's so cool like
33:21
i was like i i just
33:23
now i need to look up like i assume they're identical to hit
33:26
new game and continue
33:27
but just another little touch that sticks with you um it's ever
33:33
so unnerving
33:35
because in every other game that we've played and we play a lot
33:38
of games you don't
33:39
get the continue when you start the game for the first time
33:41
it's grayed out so the
33:42
SPEAKER_00: fact that this had it i was like
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, this is right.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Let me let me push.
33:47
I like a game that lets you push against like a common trope or
33:53
something.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like reward me for for satiating my curiosity.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: And it didn't seem like there was anything special,
34:01
SPEAKER_00: but I did like that,
34:02
SPEAKER_00: especially in a game that's supposed to be a little unnerving.
34:05
yeah and it like it kind of breaks the fourth wall a little bit
34:08
or it's almost like
34:09
a uh jumanji kind of thing of like is this like it reminds me
34:13
of um a game that
34:14
would have done that is um inscription um yes it just kind of
34:19
plays with your
34:20
assumptions did you ever play doki doki literature club i've
34:25
heard of it i have not
34:25
SPEAKER_02: played it
34:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a visual novel.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: It gets very dark very fast.
34:29
And that game both has you very intentionally opening up the
34:34
game files and like
34:36
SPEAKER_00: modifying notes and stuff.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
34:38
And it's just like one of those games where it's like,
34:41
there's only one real way to delete me.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And you have to go into like the folders and files.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there are little notes popping up that are like,
34:49
SPEAKER_00: don't stop,
34:49
SPEAKER_00: please don't go further.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: And you're just like...
34:54
100% there's a little bit of that um in the opening um oh yeah
35:01
especially when it's
35:01
like i hope this hurts and i was like i don't who is that is
35:05
that for me is that
35:06
for me uh do you think and this is i mean i don't think this is
35:11
really up for
35:12
debate but like do you think swan say was actually saving the
35:14
cryopod for daisuke
35:17
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: What we learned towards the end is that he was a stand-up guy.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: He was drunk, but I do think he actually cared and loved Daisuke a lot.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: I thought that was a nice switch.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: I thought that he was like...
35:31
I thought they made him a little bit too unlikable in terms of
35:34
his 180 towards
35:37
SPEAKER_02: actually the only solid character in the game.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: Or the only... Yeah, one of the solid characters.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I thought that that was like
35:46
interesting I was a little bit like happened a little fast for
35:50
me the way that he
35:51
was annoyed with Daisuke I found that very believable yeah yeah
35:57
I mean I just last
35:59
things from my notes I just thought the nonlinear narrative was
36:02
was expertly done
36:03
if this game was a linear story it would it wouldn't work and
36:09
then yeah I guess
36:11
SPEAKER_02: most unsettling moment sounds like it was the graveyard for for you
36:15
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Like for jump scare, for sure.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: The graveyard.
36:22
And then for just like sheer horror,
36:24
almost like the skin crawlingness,
36:27
that's cutting the cake.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Even the normal cake didn't feel right.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: I just felt like how much, how broad my mouse had to go.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: I was like this.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Cause I was like starting small, moving further.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden I was sweeping across.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: It was awful.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: And the ultrasound one was pretty good, too, with the meter.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: That was great.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Remember the teeth hallway?
36:51
SPEAKER_02: The teeth hallway.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: You're going in like circles.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Someone's esophagus.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the eyes.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh, eyes.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: You're right.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: Eyes.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: The eye hallway.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: That was kind of crazy.
37:03
very very i really want to know like how they programmed that
37:06
um just like this is
37:07
so well that's weird you get the weirdy creepies at first and
37:13
you're like oh man
37:13
this is cool what they're doing and then after that initial
37:16
wave i started like
37:19
swinging my mouse around to see to to catch how they're popping
37:22
in yeah and i'm
37:24
SPEAKER_00: like oh this is cool i like this yeah that was really cool
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh, cool.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I really enjoyed this one, honestly.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say it's like a game.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: I've liked this game.
37:37
SPEAKER_02: I liked this game more than a lot of games I've played.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've liked a lot of games.
37:43
I just want to say I'm trying to draw a distinction between
37:45
enjoy and like.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I really liked this game.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: I really respected it.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm really glad I played it.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that I enjoy playing horror games alone,
37:55
but I'm super glad that you picked this one and that I got the
37:59
chance to play it.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm also glad you picked this one.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I expected you to pick this one.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: I've thrown horror games every once in a while,
38:08
SPEAKER_00: and I think when you called the bluff,
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I just realized how chicken shit I am.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: Do you think you'll ever play another horror game outside of this?
38:21
i think so but i also think i appreciate i don't like the meme
38:25
horror games uh yeah
38:27
i like i like the the like you said that the ones inspired by
38:31
alien and um sunshine
38:33
or whatever that is like i i i think i'm more likely to play a
38:37
a serious horror
38:38
game than a meme horror game gotcha yeah man go watch sunshine
38:42
that movie's great
38:44
SPEAKER_02: yeah cool any any other closing thoughts
38:48
um no just um hopefully no one out there i did have a weird
38:53
questions like do we
38:54
forgive jimmy and the answer is no right or there's no world
38:58
where you can no let's
39:00
make sure we don't have an audience member that is like
39:02
actually jimmy yeah no
39:05
SPEAKER_02: please please uh go no don't forgive jimmy um jimmy is uh
39:13
SPEAKER_02: You've missed the point of the game.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: The true villain in the game.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: And...
39:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
39:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
39:19
SPEAKER_02: I think...
39:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
39:21
SPEAKER_02: I think...
39:25
SPEAKER_01: Anya was like...
39:33
SPEAKER_02: The most tragic part of the game,
39:34
SPEAKER_02: even though she got the least...
39:36
SPEAKER_02: Well,
39:36
SPEAKER_02: Daisuke too.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: The innocence, right?
39:38
SPEAKER_02: Like the... Yeah.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:43
Definitely like a crazy,
39:48
only like a two or three hour game has us asking these
39:53
questions too.
39:55
Like usually you think of like an open world game that can
39:58
explore characters to
40:00
SPEAKER_02: such a level,
40:01
SPEAKER_02: but this game really packed it in a short amount of time.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just like one of the first thing I said.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: It's just good science fiction.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: There's a reason those movies like Alien and Sunshine,
40:15
SPEAKER_00: those crew members in that ship,
40:17
SPEAKER_00: there's just a reason we get attached to them.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, just good storytelling.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Good storytelling.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: All right.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, another dark-toned game for next month, Mugenics.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: You think it's Mugenics or Meowgenics?
40:34
SPEAKER_02: I think it's Mugenics.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: Mugenics.
40:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, looking forward to chatting with you about that game next month.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Take care.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Later.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: Much love.