Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Attach Cry

Transcript

Attach Cry · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the System Speak podcast. If you would like to support our efforts at sharing our story, finding stigma about dissociative identity disorder, and educating the community and the world about trauma and dissociation, Please go to our website at www.systemspeak.org where there is a button for donations and you can offer a one time donation to support the podcast or become an ongoing subscriber. You can also support us on Patreon for early access to updates and what's unfolding for us. Simply search for Emma Sunshine on Patreon. We appreciate the support, the positive feedback, and you sharing our podcast with others.
• 0:43
  We are also super excited to announce the release of our new online community, a safe place for listeners to connect about the podcast. It feels like any other social media platform where you can share, respond, join groups, and even attend events with us. Go to our webpage at www.systemsbeak.org to join the community. We're excited to see you there!
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Guys, there is a whole new thing that no one has ever told me. Why have you never told me this? But I'm not kidding. Something came up. Like, I've heard it in conversation only in passing.
• 1:51
  I was like, oh, it's one of those things everyone else understands. I need to look up sometime, but I've never had the chance. And then in a group over the weekend, someone mentioned it, and I was like, what? And so I actually asked someone and said, what does this mean? And they gave me a quick definition, and it blew my mind.
• 2:11
  It is called attachment cry or attach cry depending on how you're using it or who you're reading about. Right? So I just did a general Google search because that's the way to get yourself in trouble. Right? And, basically, this is like a trauma response, like flight or fight or freeze.
• 2:36
  We also know about fawning. And attach cry is like when fight or flight have failed, when they don't work. And if you imagine a little child, if you can do this safely, I don't mean to stress anyone out. But if you imagine a little child and their caregiver is about to leave, and and as they're leaving, the child does one last little cry and reaching out in order to basically delay the leaving. Like, the child may not be able to stop them from leaving, but even trying to delay the leaving, oh my goodness.
• 3:24
  I can't even talk about this. It's that kind of moment. Right? But as adults or with parts or alters or however you wanna talk about it, it shows up in so many ways. So I found this article by doctor Patricia Turner, and it says that attachment cry is a hardwired response to danger.
• 3:49
  That so it's not a behavior, and I think this is really important because a lot of us with dissociative disorders, including people with borderline personality disorder, which is a completely different thing, but some people have that and also dissociate. A lot of things really get shamed on as behavioral problems when it is a hardwired response. And this is just I can't even tell you what this is about. So it says a hardwired response to danger that occurs when your primitive brain believes escape may still be possible after fight or flight have failed. And, specifically, she says, specifically, I use the words primitive brain and not thinking brain because fight, flight, freeze, submit.
• 4:47
  What? Is that fawning? Is that the same as fawning, submitting? Or oh my goodness. My mind is blown.
• 4:56
  An attachment cry are outside of conscious control. She says, your emotional brain runs the show. When you are either in hyper or hypoarousal, it's your primitive brain that's in charge. You do not consciously choose to become hijacked and leave optimal arousal. Rather, your primitive brain makes the decision for you in a large part based on your previous life's experiences.
• 5:27
  So we're talking like EP stuff here. Right? If we're gonna use ANP in EP, there's something that is activating either emotional flashbacks or EP kind of responses, trauma responses, not behavioral, but trauma responses, and it's showing up through this. It says, when your primitive brain perceives danger, your body moves into hyperarousal. You experience an adrenaline rush.
• 5:54
  You have the urge to move your large muscles, your arms and your legs, to literally fight or run. You feel activated, like there's suddenly a lot of energy in your system, and you lose the ability to think. When you are in hyperarousal and you feel activated, your primitive brain must evaluate whether it's possible to fight or whether or whether the better solution would be to run. But what if neither option is possible? What if they both fail?
• 6:31
  And so she has a whole other article about fight, flight, freeze, and submit. I have never heard of this woman. I think it's a therapist with just a blog is where I've landed, which is fascinating. We need to talk to her. It says, you use attachment cry specifically to elicit rescue.
• 6:59
  What is attachment cry? It's when we turn to the nearest human being and say, see me, hear me, save me. Oh, that makes me all kinds of nauseous. I can't even tell you. I can't even tell you.
• 7:14
  I am getting the image of myself as a little girl screaming and crying and begging and pleading my mother to open her door when she has locked me out and I'm left in the hallway where I don't wanna be and where bad things are gonna happen if I get caught out there, but she will not let me in and rescue me. That's what I'm getting. I don't know if it fits, but when I just read those words, that's the image that comes to mind. Oh, okay. Her examples are more neutral.
• 7:52
  Let's go with that. She says animals do it too. It's what a seven week old kitten does when he finds himself alone in a barn and far from his mother. Then kitten muses loudly and repeatedly. You hear the fear in his cries.
• 8:06
  He's calling mommy. I'm in trouble. Help me. Come get me. Similarly, it's what a four year old does when she finds herself separated from her father in the grocery store.
• 8:17
  She starts screaming daddy when she is saying daddy, I'm in trouble. Help me. Come get me. Oh my goodness. I can't even read this stuff.
• 8:27
  You will use attachment cry over your lifespan. And so then she gives some different examples with some of her clients anonymously, and she talks about others can meet your need for safety when you reach out. So it sounds like this is the word. And when it goes well, like when it works, when someone responds to you, it sounds to me like I'm understand I don't know if I'm understanding, but it sounds to me like that is, like, a form of trying to acknowledge that there's misattunement, that there's a need, that there is something that you need to help keep you safe. And when someone responds to that, then that's attunement.
• 9:14
  Right? Because your needs are met. They're noticed, reflected, and met. So it ties into all this stuff and related to shame somehow. I know it does, but it also can fail.
• 9:29
  Attachment cry can fail. So when there's misattunement, that is an example of attachment cry failing because your emotional needs are not noticed, met are not noticed, reflected, or met. But here's what she says. Attachment cry has a serious flaw, which is that it does not always work. This happens when the nearest human being is the source of danger rather than a potential rescuer.
• 10:02
  Oh my goodness. We've already been teaching this stuff. I just didn't know there was a word for this part of that process. So this so she's talking about mammal brain and reptile brain stuff that your mammal brain turns toward the caregiver. And when your caregiver is responsive to that, that's attunement.
• 10:21
  Right? But when your caregiver is dangerous, your reptile brain, like, your lower brain wants to turn away, wants to get away. It goes back to that still face video. You're you want to get away from danger. And so there's that loop that's caused when your caregiver that you naturally would turn toward for safety is also the danger that you have to get away from for safety.
• 10:56
  So they're saying she's saying that that's when attachment cry fails, when you turn towards the danger because you don't have a choice. She says when the nearest human being is the source of danger, attachment cry doesn't help because that person will not see you, hear you, or save you. And that this is when you drop into freeze. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.
• 11:31
  We need to talk to this lady. I found another article on growth insight, something, or another blog, something. This is even like literature, you guys. I haven't even gotten that far yet. I literally just wanted to know what the word meant.
• 11:53
  I didn't know it was gonna get so deep. This one says, the attachment cry is a term linked to a final attempt when people are looking for reassurance and preventing abandonment. In its original form, it is when a child is still learning that their parent is going to come back. They may make one last attempt to cry out when their parent is leaving because they are unsure if their parent is going to come back, so they want them to stay longer. Over time, children can trust that their parents are going to return and that the attachment will be typically the same.
• 12:32
  But what happens when the parents do not come back consistently or when they do come back but are different, children learn that they will want to hold onto that parent and make sure things do not change as a result. This can extend into adulthood, especially with romantic relationships. We see that in individuals that will hold on to their partners and have a difficult time letting go. In a day to day situation, they may bring up things right as the partner is trying to get them to is trying to leave to try to get them to stay a little longer, get some reassurance, and hopefully send a reminder that they need to come back. Oh my goodness.
• 13:17
  They give some examples. Here we go. I don't know if I can handle this. So some examples that are common among children. With children, when their parents are leaving, they suddenly start crying and begging them not to leave.
• 13:30
  Or a child may wanna show their friend or family member all of their toys, even things they don't actually care about just to keep them from leaving. Or the famous last minute, oh, wait. Look what I can do, or just one more ride. With older kids, they may fake illness or actually make themselves ill unconsciously to prevent to prevent their parents from leaving. Oh my goodness.
• 13:59
  You guys listen to this. In therapy, when the session is over and the client either tells the therapist something critically important that has to be addressed, or when they start to ask a lot of questions at the end, it's the same attachment cry. Don't leave me. Oh, snap. What?
• 14:22
  Okay. Here's another article. Oh, it's also from a therapist who allegedly specializes in trauma and complex PTSD. I'm going to contact these people and see if they will come on the podcast because we need to learn about this. We need to learn about this.
• 14:41
  In her blog, this one says, I don't where how did I miss this? Who are they reading or what courses are they taking that have taught this? Like, where does where is the I don't even know, like, what research to go find this, so we'll do that in a minute. But this person says, this is Susie Morgan. Poor Susie Morgan.
• 15:01
  I'm just announcing her name on a podcast. Her blog says, as little ones, we are designed to have a cry that pulls our caregivers to us. It is called the attachment cry. Oh, here we go. And was identified by a researcher.
• 15:18
  I don't know how to say their name. I do not know how to say their name. And it is linked to the affective system of panic. The first time I heard this, I was fascinated. Panic is actually the cry and reaching for someone.
• 15:35
  When we feel panic, it is not anxiety. It is a attachment cry. What? As little ones, when our caregivers reliably and lovingly respond, over time we internalize. I'm not alone.
• 15:53
  Someone will be there for me. I am worthy of love and care and protection. But when our attachment cry is met with anger, nonresponsiveness, or unpredictable patterns of sometimes care, sometimes anger, and sometimes nothing, our nervous system cannot feel secure. So we conclude, I am alone, I am unsafe in the world, and I have no one I can rely on because something is intrinsically wrong with me. Oh my goodness.
• 16:27
  For out of a need to survive, we as little ones figure out some way to adapt to make it more likely that our basic needs will be met. We have no power to change our caregivers. Our only power is to conclude we are the problem that needs to be changed and learn to cry less, cry louder, act out, be pleasing. Oh, that's fawning. Whatever it takes.
• 16:55
  The work with the little self through attachment repair is perhaps my favorite and most profound part of EMDR or something something. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Okay. Hold on.
• 17:12
  We're gonna email this person right now. Hello. Okay. I have emailed this poor woman to find out. The other lady does not have an oh, wait.
• 17:55
  Here is her email address. Oh, she's in Calgary, this one. Patricia Turner. Okay. I have emailed both of these people to ask them if they will come on and talk about this.
• 18:41
  Now I'm sorry this is such big news, and you're, like, typing with me. That's a terrible podcast. Google Scholar. Google Scholar. But that's how big this is.
• 18:53
  We have to find out about this right now. I'm sure of it. This is an example of confusing intensity with intimacy, which may in itself be an actual attachment cry. Oh my goodness. Attachment cry.
• 19:07
  Google Scholar. Okay. When I'm searching for it on Google Scholar, what I find are studies about infants and the crying it out theory, which I feel terrible about because they told us in DHS training that we have to do that with the foster kids. Because foster kids you can't bring into your bed. Did you know that?
• 19:32
  For obvious explicit reasons, like to keep them safe from people who should not be foster parents. But that's unfair to all the babies who are just foster babies with good foster parents, so they can't ever sleep in our room. And so we were taught the cry it out method and basically not force, but force to do that. And I feel terrible about it. That's just my youngest three, but that explains a lot.
• 20:04
  Maybe that's my son's attached cry. Like, is that an attached cry or just temper, tantrum, fetal alcohol, autism, screaming. Oh my goodness. I don't even know the answer. Okay.
• 20:22
  Those none of that is that. Let's try attachment, cry, trauma. I'm not finding anything. You guys, I feel like everyone read a cool book except for me. What is this?
• 20:39
  Is this, you know what too? All the people that we're talking about in group were EMDR people. So that means there's, this is something that they're talking about in EMDR circles that's not showing up anywhere else, which is why I didn't know about it. So once again, the EMDR people think they're cool. Let's try that attachment cry EMDR.
• 21:04
  Oh, here we go. Vanderhardt. We know him. Journal of EMDR. I knew it.
• 21:12
  Dissociation of the personality and complex trauma related disorders in EMDR. What do they say about attachment cry? Oh, they're just acknowledging that it's part of the process, and it says the more in severe chronic the traumatization, the more dissociative parts can be expected to exist. Oh, snap. Well, that's not helpful.
• 21:38
  Let's close that really fast. Oh my goodness. Okay. I wish I could read all the books and know all the things before I went to therapy because I want it desensitized before we actually talk about this, and it's hard. Okay.
• 22:02
  So that is basically all I can even find about this. Oh, wait. Let's try one more thing. Let's check off the mint. So it just says attached cry EMDR.
• 22:15
  Maybe that will filter results without all that attachment stuff. Attach cry trauma. Okay. Here's something I have not seen. It says, looking at trauma, a toolkit for clinicians edited by people I've never heard of, but the book is online.
• 22:45
  Google Books for free. I'm gonna post this in the community. Chapter nine is called structural dissociation. And what does it say about attack cry? Oh, it just throws it in like everybody knows what they're talking about.
• 23:03
  This illustrates how survivors of trauma continue with ordinary activities of daily life, parenthesis, relating to others and exploring their world, parenthesis, at the same time as survival systems are being activated, parenthesis, attach, cry, flight, fight, freeze, feigned death. What? This is particularly common when traumatic experiences have involved caregivers or attachment figures. Dissociation allows these incompatible ways of being to be held separate by parts of the self. Okay.
• 23:43
  So that's all it says about that, but there's actually some other helpful things and it's free on Google Books somehow. Well, chunks of it, but I can post that in the community. Let me do it now before I forget. Isn't this the most exciting podcast ever? Systemsspeakcommunity.org groups.
• 24:12
  Nerdtown found this while searching for something else and while recording the most boring podcast ever while doing a Google search. You're welcome. So that's all of that. Oh, I should search by that name, but I already lost that name. Snap.
• 24:55
  Alright. Now we are googling. I'm pretty sure that's illegal, but we're gonna go all in here. Okay. Back to Google.
• 25:03
  Attachment cry. Oh, wait. Here we go. Attack under understanding the connection between attach, cry, and self care. What?
• 25:20
  I have found someone's PowerPoint. Intervention based on sensory motor. What? Okay. Let me skim through this really fast.
• 25:32
  Okay. What makes so they quote van der Kolk, what makes an experience traumatic? Internal and external resources are inadequate to cope with threat. Dysregulation of central and autonomic nervous systems affect affects somatic, emotional, and cognitive responses. Okay.
• 25:52
  We know that. And then an Ogden quote with sensory motor psychotherapy. We talked to Ogden, think, on the podcast already. Oh, okay. Here it says it comes from or at least on their heading, it's part of polyvagal theory.
• 26:11
  What? How am I not knowing this? Attach cry, the first line of defense for mammals. What? You guys, how did I not know this?
• 26:24
  The first line of defense for mammals mediated by parasympathetic system myelinated vagus social engagement when threatened clumped together for safety, especially young and small mammals who keep proximity to big mammals. Oh, I'm a big mammal. Oh my goodness. Okay and then that is as opposed to mobilizing defenses which are fight and flight and immobilizing defenses which is freeze and shut down. What?
• 27:07
  The first resource, attachment, from John Bowlby, a quote. Most people think of fear as running away from something, but there is another side to it. We run to someone, usually a person. It's screamingly obvious, but I believe it to be a new idea and quite revolutionary. Way to go, bulby.
• 27:30
  You're a bulby fan. So this is attachment was first described by John Bulby, further elaborated by Mary Ainsworth. So Peter Behrs taught us all this. Right? And Mary Main?
• 27:43
  The most extensively researched psychological model, a threat response system. Goal of attachment is to maintain proximity to caregiver, and attachment styles come from adaptions to caregiver style of responsiveness. So how attuned are they or their style of attunement or misattunement or how much of which there is maybe? So if you have a reliably responsive caregiver, then you have secure attachment. An unpredictably responsive caregiver, then you have insecure attachment, the anxious ambivalent type.
• 28:24
  Predictably unresponsive caregiver, you have insecure attachment, anxious avoidant type. Frightened or frightening caregiver, you have insecure attachment, disorganized type. Why is this so slippery through my brain? It's like a water slide. Okay.
• 28:47
  And then they talk about each of those types and then inner child or child parts. The relationship between trauma and self care. Oh my goodness. How did we get to this? The key components of secure attachment are availability and responsiveness of a significant other and the worthiness of self.
• 29:15
  We begin to learn about our needs through the experience of being attended to from birth by primary caregivers. Children who have supportive primary caregivers that consistently attend to their physical and emotional needs develop a capacity to see themselves as worthy of care and tend to have positive relationships with others. This is so hard because it's one of those things like I can't go back and fix it and I couldn't I wasn't in control of it in the first place, right? Like as a child, that's not my fault. And yet it's one of those impacts of trauma that we have to just carry for always, and that's so unfair.
• 29:58
  In contrast, children whose primary attachment figures are abusive, neglectful, or inconsistent tend to see themselves as unworthy of care and others as untrustworthy. Why isn't any of this easy? So essentially, the experience of interpersonal trauma is one of having the perpetrator's needs met at the expense of one's own needs. Oh my goodness. I wanted I want to read that again because you guys, that goes back to our discussion from movie group.
• 30:36
  Do you remember in Turning Red, the movie group, when we talked about that someone asked the question about how do you know when they're when the caregiver is using their own struggles to manipulate you in so that you're caring for them instead of them caring for you. And we had a wonderful discussion about that and talked about how that parentification or that you know it crosses the line when instead of it being a natural and healthy response for the child just practicing caregiving by caregiving for the parent in the same way that the parent care gives for the child is when the child is caregiving for the parent instead of the parent caring for the child. So it's not just tenderness or play. It's actually the responsibility for the parent's well-being is on the child. That's what's not healthy.
• 31:36
  And so this says here, essentially the experience of interpersonal trauma is one of having the perpetrator's needs met at the expense of one's own needs. That's relational trauma right there. And it gives the internal messages of I'm not worthy. I don't matter. I'm undeserving.
• 31:57
  My needs are not important. Survivors of trauma are often left with a longing for care and connection, as well as anger and grief for having to do what wasn't done for them as children. I just said that before. So embarrassing. Yeah, it's grief, like it's not fair, it's not our fault and we can't fix it.
• 32:20
  And there are so many layers of grief in that. This equals an ambivalent relationship to or disconnection from somatic, emotional, and relational needs, which creates a dilemma around engaging in self care. Oh my goodness. Which that they say leads to nourishment barriers. Experience of not having needs met due to trauma and neglect leads children to wisely adapt by distancing and disconnecting from their basic needs.
• 32:58
  A survival strategy to protect children from their basic needs when it was not safe to have needs. Over time, this adaptive strategy results in a nourishment barrier, which is limited ability to let in nourishment such as safety, love, comfort, and self care. Oh my goodness. A nourishment barrier. I'm learning all kinds of new words today.
• 33:25
  I've never heard that before. A nourishment barrier often leads to resistance, fear, mistrust of taking in good things later in life resulting in isolation, pain, loneliness, avoidance of pleasure, and addictions as substitutes for oh, man. I can't even with this. Oh my goodness. I can't even with this.
• 33:53
  How nourishment barriers manifest. The development of habitual patterns such as dismissing one's needs while at the same time protesting when others don't attune to their needs even if those needs are unstated. Oh my goodness. Clients may present with a preoccupation with their dismissed needs coupled with indirect communication about getting them met by others. That's that mixed signal of come here, go away.
• 34:24
  And you guys, that is the sign language for that diagnosis of borderline personality. It's come here, go away. I can show you in group if you wanna see it. I don't need it. I don't want it, and you cheated me out of it.
• 34:37
  Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Interesting. Pat there's a Pat Ogden quote.
• 34:45
  It says, bottom up hijacking is the source of many a trauma survivor's daily life problems and self blame. At the mercy of the limbic system, the traumatized person feels out of control, unstable, and psychologically incapable. Confidence in the ability to cope with daily life is greatly diminished. I should be over this already, or I must be crazy, are two of the most common complaints heard in therapy stemming from the client's view that the source of the problem lies in psychological inadequacy rather than in the functioning of the brain. Wow.
• 35:29
  I feel like that's what we learned two summers ago that helped us move. I mean, we still struggle with it, but really lifted that veil of shame that we wore all the time or carried around where we thought, like, if I could just do this right, why can't I just do this right? Well, I can't. I'm not doing it. That's what we learned.
• 35:47
  My brain is doing what brains do, and it's appropriate in the context of trauma. So as I heal my brain, my brain doesn't have to do the same things in the same way, and then I feel better. But I already feel better because I don't have to be ashamed of my brain doing what it's supposed to do. Right? That's not the same as me being bad or doing bad things.
• 36:09
  So then it talks about mammals and the body. See, I did not go to this training, so I don't know how to fill in the blank. It's all about attached cry, and fight response, attach, cry, and flight response, attach, cry, and freeze response, attach, cry, and collapse response. And the dilemma it says of attach, cry, is connection versus self protection. Protection.
• 36:35
  Oh my goodness. I basically feel like this is a lot of what was going on those two years and why those two years were so intense and so dark and so hard. I feel like that therapist actually abandoned me in attached cry while telling me cognitive words that weren't about not being abandoned. And so like I had all kinds of conflict trying to understand what was happening and why it took me so long to sort it out, but I feel like I'm only just now getting words for it. So I definitely need to talk about this in therapy, but this slide doesn't help any.
• 37:19
  Let me post it as well in case it helps anyone else. Systems community groups. Nerdtown also found this. Okay. Okay.
• 37:48
  So here's another blog by a psychologist. This one says Heather Bradley. It says, what happens in the body and mind when we experience stressful or traumatic events? When traumatic things happen that are shocking to our system, including the shelter in place and fears around illness and financial security oh, so okay. She's giving examples.
• 38:13
  Under threat, our body is wired to protect us. This is a normal human experience. Our physical and emotional survival depend on our autonomic defenses. In order to help us get out of these states, which often feel like we are hijacked, so now I think she's been reading some Ogden, we have to be able to recognize them. So it sounds like she's using Ogden words, which is fine, And I see later in her article she talks about window of tolerance.
• 38:41
  So there's some polyvagal stuff here. So there's something like, I'm out of touch with the cool people because I've never heard of this at all. And she's not quoting these people but I'm starting to recognize the language so I need to track back and figure out where everyone else learned this. But then she talks about the five autonomic defense response states Fight and explains what that is, flight and explains what that is. Although I think Christine Forner says flight should be first, but anyway freeze, maybe they're just examples because then also she says submit which includes shame, trouble saying no, passive, self critical, people pleasing.
• 39:26
  Is that fawning? Do those connect? Feel worthless and over care taking of others. Oh, fascinating. I probably need to read some more about submit.
• 39:38
  But for all kinds of reasons, that's not happening today. But then she lists number five, attach cry for help. So this one she's specifically saying attach cry instead of all the others that said attachment cry. So are they interchangeable? Are they different things?
• 39:56
  Are people using them wrong? Or you just could use them either way and it's fine. I don't even know. But she defines attached cry as intense loneliness, fear of being abandoned, difficulty being alone and wanting to chronically reach for others, clinging, waiting by the phone. You guys, I don't think I feel those things a lot.
• 40:24
  I think I felt that in specific response to what happened with our previous therapist. I think that's what it was. I don't think I have I could be wrong because clearly I don't know a lot, obviously, and now I there's more I don't know, but I don't think I generally lonely or waiting to be abandoned. I do more of that submit stuff, I think, than this or more of the freeze stuff about just not engaging and and being stuck. I don't think I'm a clingy person or a reaching out person.
• 41:05
  Even when people try to reach out to me, I'm like, no. I don't it says waiting by the phone. I don't even carry my phone around with me. I don't wanna see my phone. I don't wanna be addicted to my phone.
• 41:15
  I have a lot of phone avoidance. So I don't think I'm generally an attach cry kind of person, but I think the attach cry process got triggered and I got stuck there specifically in connection to what happened with my previous therapist. That's what I think I'm feeling like happened. I'm not even sure. I don't know.
• 41:44
  I've gotta go to therapy. That's what I need to do. Oh, but this is interesting. It says our nervous systems are either over or under activated when we are outside of our window of tolerance. We are unable to think and feel at the same time with ease.
• 42:02
  We lose our ability to feel calm, curious, compassionate, and caring. Oh my goodness. I like those Cs so much better than the other ones. To ourselves and others. If you are noticing it is hard to access these qualities, it probably means your system is in a state of hyper or hypo arousal, and you can look through the resources to find some tools to help regulate.
• 42:30
  So oh, this is good stuff. Oh, no. It's all stuff we all know. At first, I thought it gave hypo and hyper for all five states, but no, it just gives one or two things for hypo and one or two things for hyper and you guys we already know it. It's like orienting and grounding and box breathing and all that kind of stuff.
• 42:57
  Square breathing some people call it. Okay. So, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. You guys, I found some board where someone was asking what a cry is, and someone said, someone commented, assume it was a tatch cry for help that brought you to therapy in the first place.
• 43:24
  Oh my snorkels. Someone else said, the good news is that you have recognized a pattern, which means you are on your way to resolving it already. A typical percussion might look something like, first, experiencing a response pattern but not recognizing it or being in control of it. And then later, experiencing a response pattern, sometimes recognizing that it is happening and sometimes not, but also still not being in control. Sometimes talking about it with your therapist and other times enacting it.
• 44:04
  Oh, snap. And then experiencing a response pattern and fairly consistently recognizing it through therapy, learning to self soothe and sometimes talking about it instead of enacting it. And then finally, you will be able to bypass the pattern by recognizing the triggers before the pattern happens or takes hold, and you will be able to talk about it and self soothe instead of acting it out. So attach cry is a kind of reenactment? I oh.
• 44:40
  Okay. Here's literally the last thing I can find. This is from unstuck. I can't it's a blog. I can't tell if it's a therapist or a company or what.
• 44:58
  But it says the scoop on defense mechanisms, and they list seven. So they have flight, fight, freeze, flag, which is like frozen, but also immobilized. You can't talk or move or even look around. Faint, which is the loss of awareness and consciousness or to remember even your body, like passing out or faking death, not intentionally faking like lying, like it feeling like you're unconscious. Oh, interesting.
• 45:38
  So what it adds is social engagement as a healthy defense mechanism. Like like when you're nervous to be in a social setting and so you engage and then you're not nervous anymore because you feel more confident. So then attachment cry. So they say attachment cry. When we are in distress, we'll send signals to another person in hopes that they will help us.
• 46:08
  Have you ever felt like your partner doesn't appreciate what you do around the house? Do you ever point this out by storming around the house? That is a cry for attachment. Oh, attachment cry is a cry for attachment? That seems easier than I'm making it.
• 46:30
  He says, notice me. I need you. I miss you. Value me. I need connection.
• 46:36
  This is the underlying message. In some form or another, we all do it. Fascinating. I don't do this storming around passive thing. I'm pretty direct as far as my family goes, what I need from them, but I'm curious about what I need from them.
• 46:57
  Where is that line between this is what we have to do to function as a lot of people living in one house and what is this is what we need to do because it's what I had to do. I'm really work on differentiating that. Like, no one actually cares if the house is vacuumed every day. No one in my family even cares if it's vacuumed ever. But I get anxious about the care of the carpet, not because I have a desire for the carpet to look fancy or the floors to be swept clean so much as I am literally afraid of the landlord showing up and thinking we are terrible people and kicking us out.
• 47:39
  So for me, that's directly tied to safety. And I know that comes from my childhood where I was punished if things were not done correctly or done well or like, that felt life threatening at times. And I certainly don't wanna talk about that, but I never thought about those kinds of interactions being connected to attachment cry. So that is interesting. He says the point that's often overlooked is that no matter which defense mechanism is activated, the goal is always to ensure your survival.
• 48:15
  So the next time you feel the need to run away or one of the other defense mechanisms, try to take a moment to recognize that your brain just flipped on your survival switch. It's not a bad thing. It is what it is, a survival response. It's there because you feel threatened in some way. However, when the switch turns on too often, it's likely due to unresolved trauma.
• 48:41
  Trauma is the same thing as saying survival memories. Anytime your brain suspects there's danger, it will switch on your defense system. With unresolved survival memories, the brain is uber aware and interprets benign events as dangerous. Living like this can zap anyone's life of fatality. You don't have to live a response driven life.
• 49:05
  Oh, and then they quote Kathy Steele and Vanderhardt, treating trauma related dissociation. So it must be in that and I missed it. I don't even know where my coping skills book is right now. I think it's downstairs. And if I go down there, the children will find me.
• 49:21
  And then because of their attachment cry, I will have to stay and I will not be able to come back and read it to you anyway. So we'll have to look at that another day. And I seriously need to talk about this in therapy this week because I can't even. I can't even. But thank you for listening, and maybe you already know, And we will, like everything else, learn it together, I guess.
• 49:50
  Right? Oh, is that an attachment cry, or is that healthy? I think that's healthy. I don't know anymore.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon and join us in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned, it's that connection brings healing.
• 50:38
  We look forward to connecting with you!